Author Topic: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child  (Read 22464 times)

asauer

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feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« on: September 07, 2016, 06:18:54 AM »
I know this is somewhat complainy but I need to find a way past it.  My husband and I have always been responsible with life and money (though kicked it into high gear to get to FI 5 yrs ago).  We've never needed or asked from money from our parents.  However, all of our adult siblings (my sister and his two siblings) always "need" money due to their poor choices.  We've always said 'no' but parents keep giving it to them along with buying them clothing, paying for their kids' medical stuff etc.  While we barely get cards at Christmas (our kids to get gifts to be fair). 

Over the years it's begun to feel like we're being punished for being responsible and generosity is not extended to us b/c we "don't need it".  Of course I don't want to ever be in the position of needing it and parents are certainly not obligated to give to adult children, but I need a way past this resentment so that it doesn't affect our relationship with our parents.

ender

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 06:23:16 AM »
I wouldn't feel resentment but rather pity for my siblings in this situation.

GizmoTX

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 06:48:51 AM »
Read "The Millionaire Next Door" -- your sibs are being trained to be dependent on handouts that can't last forever. Keep practicing your "no". Concentrate on raising your own children to be independent.

BlueHouse

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 06:53:04 AM »
Just get used to it. It will happen everywhere throughout your life and if you don't find a way to deal, it will eat you up.
From government sponsored bailouts to welfare, it's the same story. Of course, when it's so close to home, it feels personal. I guess you can play the game of "would I trade places?" 
But what worked for me is to just focus on my own plan and when I started hitting it out of the park, the gifts to my brothers stopped bothering me so much.

Of course, I also let loose on my brothers once and told them they better not accept any more gifts from mom and they better not let the old lady on a fixed income pay for dinner for their family. Each time we do something nice for mom (buy her a new car, put a new roof on her house, etc) we always ask my brothers what they would like to contribute. It's almost always met with silence so I think they have gotten the hint that we are already giving them a gift by not requiring their shared portion. On the other hand, they could also just be accepting gifts on the down low.

I had to really yell at my mom once though and tell her she can't afford to pay for brothers new kitchen when she cannot even afford her own lifestyle. I pointed out that we paid for the roof over her head and by turning around and giving away her money, she is basically taking my money and giving it to my brother. I felt like shit for doing that and won't do it again.
So all of these things prob contributed 
It is maddening though. I feel for you
And yes, even though I give her a set amount of cash every single month to help her budget, and she turns around and writes checks to the church for more than what I give her, she hasn't really come to the conclusion that she needs to realign her priorities.

Heh, I guess I'm not really over it yet if I'm still counting the pennies!  Oh well. Keep trying!

Fishindude

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 06:54:28 AM »
Your siblings are free loaders. 
You are responsible.   Take pride in that.

Basenji

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 07:00:56 AM »
Welcome to the Responsible Kid Club. There have been numerous threads over the years on this. Yeah, the family politics suck. You just have to find a way to live with it and set boundaries. My siblings have gotten much better over time, but DH's family is a real pain. Latest story: my in-laws ask DH how to check that a transfer of money they did for BIL made it to his account. DH sighs and says, "Um, maybe ask him?" No money heads our way, and we don't want it, but why tell us about the enabling going on? BIL and wife make poor financial choices, get money. We are self-sufficient, casually mentioned early retirement, get silence. The official greeting of the RKC is, "For fuck's sake!" Welcome.

fredbear

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2016, 07:38:56 AM »
I worked with a really terrific woman who was our office secretary.  She and her husband and Most Precious Baby were scraping by in an oil town.  Her parents had torn up their finances and stripmined their retirement to send her brother to rehab, again and again.   She and her husband were to like this, and receive nothing for a house downpayment or help with their child's education, and expect to have to take the parents in owing to their self-induced, late-life poverty, because "You're so responsible.  We know you'll understand."  I watched and listened. 

Then it happened in our family, when my father remarried a woman with one great son, one son of whom Dylan could have written "People don't live or die, people just float," and one drug addict son.  At one point, the druggie son conned my father:

"I know how disappointed you are in me, and you can't be any more disappointed in me than I am myself.  I just need to rent a truck and move my stuff into storage while I go into the rehab center, and start my New Beginning.  Just that, a little help to begin my new life."

He and the truck disappeared; it was found a week later in Vegas, as was he, in jail again for drug use and vagrancy. 

My father was out $750 for the truck. I asked, "So.  How many times has he gone into rehab?" and was told, "Five.  This is the fifth time."

I snapped at him, saying, "Well.  Dad.  If you can't learn this in 5 tries for $750, how about you give him a credit card like his grandfather did, and see if you can learn it for $15000?"

Dorothy Sayers observed of a character that she suffered under one of the most disagreeable human characteristics: she became unpleasant under stress.  All due respect, but there are at couple other human characteristics that are a lot worse to live under, to be.  For instance, to be one of those people whose tongue is so vicious and uncontrolled, that at any moment they can blurt out something  venomous enough that they lose forever and irretrievably a friendship that had lasted for decades.  Another is to be a meta-Madoff, someone under the compulsion to con, not just strangers, but the people most obliged and likely to love you. 

So my half-brother.  He's at the $5 level for us all.  No "loans" for more than $5.  I think he's been clean and sober for a while, but there is no one left to care whether he is or isn't.  He was trained to con those who loved him and no one but a daughter (maybe) is left who does.  This is an outcome, a way to be, so terrible it is hard to believe the parents didn't know they were setting him up for it.

As to what I took from it, any time one of my kids needs something (wedding dinner, engine rebuild) I check the finances, because if I can't put the same amount against principal on the 2 other kids home loans, I can't do it. 

If your kids are pretty much normal, I recommend making a fetish of keeping it balanced to the penny.  What you do for a kid who chooses their destruction is one thing, what you do when you have two and one of them will never be able to make it (say, severely developmentally disabled) I don't know, and am very grateful I have never faced the test.     

boyerbt

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2016, 07:43:05 AM »

Over the years it's begun to feel like we're being punished for being responsible and generosity is not extended to us b/c we "don't need it".  Of course I don't want to ever be in the position of needing it and parents are certainly not obligated to give to adult children, but I need a way past this resentment so that it doesn't affect our relationship with our parents.

I am in 100% agreement with you on this. I have been in the same boat as you are for as long as I can remember and even have had discussions with coworkers who have kids to get an understanding for their thought process to see if I can make sense of it. What I have found is that there is none. Parents typically realize that there is a problem but with rose tinted glasses. They know that their kids are dependent on them but they also enjoy still being needed. The old adage is correct in that, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and so because of this I have received less from my parents than my siblings. As with the OP, I do not wish that I had or will receive more in the future but that my siblings would grow up and learn to live within their own means.

What I find really sad is that my parents essentially have to coax my siblings with free meals or other giveaways as a way to get together. We live farther away from my parents than my two siblings and see my parents less but nonetheless I always hear that my parents took my siblings out to dinner recently, or brought food over, etc. Not once have I heard my parents say that they went up and visited my siblings and that they cooked for my parents or paid for dinner. Any time my parents come to our house we make sure to take care of everything because we want to and because WE are hosting. And yet, my parents never seem upset with my siblings that they don't return the favor. This is the constant sticking point with me that they have still not grown up.

A perfect example is when our entire family was at my siblings house for an event. We all slept there the night before and were going out for a day of activities that afternoon. In the morning I was chatting with my Dad for a bit in the morning and then he started to put his shoes on, I asked him what he was doing. He said that he was going to make a trip to the store to get breakfast supplies to cook breakfast!?! My sibling knew that everyone was going to be staying and still did not worry one iota about having anything to make for breakfast or even get up early to be the host. I still do not understand how someone could do this. 

Spitfire

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2016, 07:49:21 AM »
Same thing happens with my brother, my parents help him out pretty often. It doesn't bother me, I'm happier being in a position where I don't need the help. Would you rather be the one in a hole and constantly having to beg for money?

boyerbt

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2016, 07:58:55 AM »
Same thing happens with my brother, my parents help him out pretty often. It doesn't bother me, I'm happier being in a position where I don't need the help. Would you rather be the one in a hole and constantly having to beg for money?

See my issue is that neither sibling is in the hole but still has no issue of asking for money or other items. One sibling makes around $100k  while the other is doing just fine right out of college considering the final degree. There is still just this expectation of needing to be provided for my 31 and 25 year old siblings.

Inaya

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2016, 08:34:12 AM »
Reading this thread reminds me of the stereotypical two siblings: one an A student, the other a D student. The D student gets a C, and it's all ice cream and bonus allowances. The A student gets an A and... nothing. And god forbid the A student gets a B!

alewpanda

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2016, 09:01:28 AM »
I would feel this way, except with help comes "involvement" by my parents.  They will let you live with them for a bit (which isn't that weird cuz my siblings are all still in their early 20s), but you better believe they will be after you about what you spend your money on that whole time.  They want you to work hard and save, but heaven forbid you buy a cheapo car rather than a 10,000 "reliable" car.  They'll pay for dinner for everyone, but then they will complain because the kids are spending money on crap like video games and shopping malls...

My parents are very likely helping my sister and fiance pay for their wedding...whereas my parents didn't contribute a cent to ours beyond their own clothing expenses/siblings clothing expenses.  Not even a wedding gift.  And they may give them one of their cars too......  It could drive me crazy...and sometimes it does.  But I try to remember the "breathing down their neck/constant criticism / judgment of all money choices" that comes with it...


And I stay very grateful that I live 10 hours away from the drama.

TheStachery

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2016, 09:04:18 AM »
I'm in the same situation.  It does irk me, but i try not to let it get to me.  2 of my 3 siblings have just terrible finances.  my one sister has a husband who besides fishing, is a "professional billiards" player and darts.  I guess he makes money off this, but they are living off the government.  They both have kids, and that always tugs at my parents heart strings. My parents are stern, but is always helping them out of jams.  My other sister is divorced twice.  is perpetually broke, but has the latest iPhone and tattoos galore.  Worst of all, she can't tell you anything because 99% of what she says is a complete lie, or some sort of fabricated story. Both have asked me for money in the past.  I sent them the Dave Ramsey book instead.   Which really pissed them off, but they don't ask me for money anymore.  My parents on the other hand... I've talked to them over and over, and each time it's "the kids need to eat" they "need a place to sleep".   When it comes to the holidays my parents are paying for flights, rental cars, etc, just so they make the trip.

I just get so tried of their crap, it never ends, and it's sucking my parents dry.

gardeningandgreen

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2016, 09:14:04 AM »
I have a very similar situation. My sister married a deadbeat drug addict. He currently has several warrants out for his arrest. My parents and Grandma have I believe finally decided to not give them anything. It took nearly a year of them living with my parents and things magically going missing(like power tools, electronics etc) for my parents to finally kick them out. They literally lived in their car for a few months and my sister didn't realize that he is an idiot. It angers me to no end but I have come to the conclusion that it takes so much more effort to care than it does to just leave it alone.

MandyM

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2016, 09:54:57 AM »
Stable child here. I'm lucky in that my parents are, for the most part, doing ok financially (my dad is a bit rocky, but he is savvy and will end up just fine). So its not as if I have to worry about me bailing out my parents who are too busy bailing out my siblings. I do also remind myself that dad paid for my fairly expensive college, which is most of why I am doing so well.

Confession: I once had car trouble on the way to visit my mother and stepfather. The fix was $400 or so, which wasn't going to break my bank or anything, but I guilted my stepdad into paying for it by reminding him that I was the only one (of their 5 kids) that wasn't on the payroll in some way. 

GuitarStv

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2016, 10:00:32 AM »
we barely get cards at Christmas (our kids to get gifts to be fair).

parents are certainly not obligated to give to adult children

I need a way past this resentment so that it doesn't affect our relationship with our parents

Correct me if I'm wrong here . . . but you resent your parents because they're not giving you stuff you don't need, don't believe that they are obliged to give you, but you still feel entitled to it anyway?

The way past your resentment is to simply let it go.  What your parents and siblings choose to do is up to them.  How you choose to feel about it is up to you.

charis

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2016, 10:45:56 AM »
we barely get cards at Christmas (our kids to get gifts to be fair).

parents are certainly not obligated to give to adult children

I need a way past this resentment so that it doesn't affect our relationship with our parents

Correct me if I'm wrong here . . . but you resent your parents because they're not giving you stuff you don't need, don't believe that they are obliged to give you, but you still feel entitled to it anyway?

The way past your resentment is to simply let it go.  What your parents and siblings choose to do is up to them.  How you choose to feel about it is up to you.

Where does the OP suggest that he or she feels entitled to anything? 

I get it, my parents have always been funneling money to my brother in addition to rent-free living, phone plans, and paying student loan bills.  As a result, my brother, mid-30s is hopelessly inept at living within his means or being fiscally responsible.   It's like watching a slow-motion train wreck when I know that everyone will be looking at me to clean up the debris.   And don't get me wrong, I do and will stay out of it as much as possible, but that doesn't make it any more pleasant.

tipster350

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2016, 10:49:24 AM »
we barely get cards at Christmas (our kids to get gifts to be fair).

parents are certainly not obligated to give to adult children

I need a way past this resentment so that it doesn't affect our relationship with our parents

Correct me if I'm wrong here . . . but you resent your parents because they're not giving you stuff you don't need, don't believe that they are obliged to give you, but you still feel entitled to it anyway?

The way past your resentment is to simply let it go.  What your parents and siblings choose to do is up to them.  How you choose to feel about it is up to you.

Where does the OP suggest that he or she feels entitled to anything? 

I get it, my parents have always been funneling money to my brother in addition to rent-free living, phone plans, and paying student loan bills.  As a result, my brother, mid-30s is hopelessly inept at living within his means or being fiscally responsible.   It's like watching a slow-motion train wreck when I know that everyone will be looking at me to clean up the debris.

Yes...and I have seen this slo mo train wreck play out to the very end, worst case scenario all the way around. And I was left holding the bag, the life and death of my mother and sibling literally in my hands.

Spork

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2016, 10:56:11 AM »
Same thing happens with my brother, my parents help him out pretty often. It doesn't bother me, I'm happier being in a position where I don't need the help. Would you rather be the one in a hole and constantly having to beg for money?

See my issue is that neither sibling is in the hole but still has no issue of asking for money or other items. One sibling makes around $100k  while the other is doing just fine right out of college considering the final degree. There is still just this expectation of needing to be provided for my 31 and 25 year old siblings.

Get used to it.  My dependent sibling is nearing 60, household earnings > $100k in a LCOL area and by golly she was MAD! when dad died and her inheritance didn't live up to her expectations.  Never mind that I can sit down and with a pencil and paper add up over a million dollars worth of handouts she's gotten over the years.  (Yes, I said million.)

MilesTeg

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2016, 11:39:43 AM »
Somewhat ironically, I have the opposite problem with my folks. They are utterly convinced that we have serious financial problems (because we don't buy lots of stuff) so they are constantly trying to give us money or buy us things.

It's always somewhat uncomfortable to tell them no because their heart is in the right place, but we don't want their money. We'd prefer they make needed improvements to their own life, like buying a smaller home more suited to a retired aging couple instead of the family home. But frugality runs in the my family so they won't and instead try to give it to us...

2buttons

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2016, 11:43:05 AM »
I know this is somewhat complainy but I need to find a way past it.  My husband and I have always been responsible with life and money (though kicked it into high gear to get to FI 5 yrs ago).  We've never needed or asked from money from our parents.  However, all of our adult siblings (my sister and his two siblings) always "need" money due to their poor choices.  We've always said 'no' but parents keep giving it to them along with buying them clothing, paying for their kids' medical stuff etc.  While we barely get cards at Christmas (our kids to get gifts to be fair). 

Over the years it's begun to feel like we're being punished for being responsible and generosity is not extended to us b/c we "don't need it".  Of course I don't want to ever be in the position of needing it and parents are certainly not obligated to give to adult children, but I need a way past this resentment so that it doesn't affect our relationship with our parents.

I bet you anything that your parents view it as you are the responsible one that they take a lot of pride in as having raised correctly, even if they cannot tell you that.

GuitarStv

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2016, 11:55:21 AM »
Where does the OP suggest that he or she feels entitled to anything? 

Directly?  Nowhere.  Entitlement does appear to be the source of the resentment though.  If asauer didn't feel entitled to the parents funds, why would he/she resent what his/her parents do with it?

I think that many people are attempting to address what the parents and siblings are doing rather than the actual problem . . . which is one of resentment.

tonysemail

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2016, 12:01:40 PM »
whenever you're feeling annoyed, walk on over to the family inheritance drama thread and it will put you back in a healthier mindset

moof

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2016, 12:11:54 PM »
I used to have these feelings.  My brother was the golden child when we were kids, with great grades when mine were mediocre, read lots of books while I still don't, etc.  Once I moved out I have only gotten a small wedding help gift and some appliance money gifted when we bought a house.  During our college years my brother lost direction and focus, eventually becoming a house husband due to his inability to hold any job for long, let alone get a good one.  I got a good job and have done well for myself.  My brother got subsidized rent in the other half of the duplex, private school for his kids paid for by grandma, two cars in a row bought for him by a sympathetic father-in-law, etc.  He was a major jerk of a brother growing up, so clearly life was not fair.

Over the years it gradually dawned on me that I had become the "golden child" by just doing my thing and being a productive member of society.  The lack of gifts and subsidies were a raging endorsement of my success as a human being.  Subtle tones of disappointment in my mom's voice could be detected during phone calls when my brother came up, the subsidies were really a form of payment for perceived failure in getting my wicked smart brother to launch into adulthood successfully.  Those financial gifts were not signs of my mom and step dad loving my brother more, they were signs of guilt, and spending limited resources where the need was greatest.

I mostly gave up on family politics after my mom died, I mostly kept in touch with several people as a favor to keep her happy.  I stop calling and sending cards to family members who don't reciprocate at least occasionally.  It is harsh, but I'd rather make time for the ones who actually demonstrate they care than waste time on the ones who clearly don't.  So I make real efforts with one uncle, my half sister, my step dad, and most of my in-laws.  I gave up on my father about 5 years ago, I figured it was his turn to call for once (crickets), and also found out he moved without bothering to tell us, oh well.  I gave up on my brother almost a year ago, still waiting for the Xmas presents for our kid that he swore were one the way (a long standing trend). It is his turn to call after about 10 in a row by me, and several guilt trips by him about staying close as a family on my dime.  Life is too short to waste time on one-way relationships, I have an awesome kid I'd rather spend my precious spare time with.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 12:17:38 PM by moof »

mxt0133

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2016, 01:18:40 PM »
From the perspective of a parent, I'm going to add that fair does not mean equal.  We are all different and have different capabilities.  I think most parents do their best and are learning along the way.  Most just want their children to reach a certain level of independence and kids get there in various ways.  I already see it on my 5 and 3 year old.  My 5 year old is quicker to pick things up, has a lot of confidence, and more independent.  Maybe it's because he had our undivided attention until his brother arrived.  My 3 year old is more cautious and needs more time to learn and try new things.  So I have to adjust my approach and expectations a bit.  I want both of them to reach their full potential but that could mean very different things for either of them.

I'm not saying no one should be hurt if one child gets a million dollars in financial support and the other one dollar.  But if a child wanted to go to a trade school and the other child to medical school then what are parents supposed to do give them both the same amount for medical school?  Even if the other child is already financially independent?

What about special needs children are all children also supposed to get the same amount of financial support and attention as the special needs one?

I'll be the first to admit that I felt this way when I was a teenager.  My brother got a car at 17 that was more expensive that what my parents were driving.  When I turned 17 I bought my own car, I didn't even ask for money because I worked and could afford it.  I felt a bit hurt after the fact but I also felt proud that I earned it on my own.


RosieTR

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2016, 01:45:46 PM »
DH and I have two different models: equal gifts vs need-based.
My parents do the need-based method. It's furtive and weird. My brother is the desperation case, such as my mom paid for brother, girlfriend and children to stay in a motel for a couple of nights when bro and GF got evicted (due to their own actions). She probably gives his baby mama some money here and there when they see the grandkid as well, I don't know. My sister, though, I know they pay for some stuff for the kid, but there are other things such as purchasing a camera that "she paid me back for" and possible "help" with rent. These are people in their 30s, thus well into adulthood. I don't really let it bother me, because I'm the only one who went to college (due to grades and academic motivation) and parents paid. Also, I have no kids, so if they want to give money to or sponsor the grandkids then I think that's nice. Subsidizing rent or other purchases is sketchier, but mostly because I fear that sister will never actually learn money management by the time our parents pass, and I'm not going to be bank of mom and dad for her. My aunt tried that with my mom after their mom died, to the effect that neither speaks to the other at this point.

MIL, on the other hand, does the equal gifts method. She is very careful to give each son exactly the same amount as the other ones. So if one of the kids asks her for money, and she accepts, she gives us some as well. This is, IMO, also weird. Mostly because she only does cash and it feels like a drug deal or something. Usually I feel kind of sketched out too, that one brother-in-law or the other is in such dire straits that they need a cash infusion from MIL. Far as we are aware, both of them earn more than either DH or me, the older one more than us combined (we think; his income might be variable). Both of them have collections of various motor vehicles including newer, large trucks, recreational vehicles such as boats or campers, second property (for fun, not rented/rentable), child support payments, etc. so there you go.

I think parents supporting their adult children far into adulthood, and beyond helping with school or weddings, is just setting up dependencies that will make things difficult when they die. Gifts given freely, or earmarked for something that speaks to the parents' values, are probably the way to go for older folks with extra wealth. If they aren't equal, it's nice if the difference is explained. But, you can't control your parents or siblings, so all you can do is decide what you will do if or when there is a train wreck that shows up at your door.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 01:47:47 PM by RosieTR »

Captain FIRE

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2016, 02:16:21 PM »
From the perspective of a parent, I'm going to add that fair does not mean equal.  We are all different and have different capabilities.  [snip]

I'm not saying no one should be hurt if one child gets a million dollars in financial support and the other one dollar.  But if a child wanted to go to a trade school and the other child to medical school then what are parents supposed to do give them both the same amount for medical school?  Even if the other child is already financially independent?

What about special needs children are all children also supposed to get the same amount of financial support and attention as the special needs one?

Why not?  You make it sound like parents have no option but to give one child more.  That's totally silly.  The parents have a few options here if they wish to treat the kids equally:
1) Give neither child money to fund schooling
2) Give a set amount of money to be used towards designated purposes, e.g. money for school, leftover going to house, wedding or such "approved" reason.
3) Give a set amount of money with no restrictions.

In reality, the med school child will have a few years of tighter living during the longer schooling period & residency/fellowship (although fellowships of $60k are sneered at by med students - largely due to those student loans and the long working hours - it's actually good money).  The trade school child will begin earning much sooner, but likely never make it to the same income as the other child.  So yes, if you fund one child more than the other in this situation, for the first 10 years the med school child will look poorer, but after 20 years, the imbalance will swing the other way pretty hard.  If the payoff for med school weren't so good, I doubt it'd be such a popular career path.  The game of Life does a reasonable job of recreating real life with it's trade school/college routes (slower start but more lucrative overall).

Parents have an absolute right to do with their money as like (beyond legal requirements to support minors/those with severe health challenges), but they shouldn't be surprised if the end result is resentment* between siblings and the destruction of sibling bonds - during the parent's lifetime and depending on the will, beyond.  I find it amazing when parents are surprised that their child are unhappy by unequal treatment of any kind.

Note: I think most people here would consider true special needs kids to be outside any considerations of equal/fair treatment.  (I say "true" because our family has a tale of a distant relative where someone was treated as "special" for having asthma.) 

*This isn't my own resentment speaking - my parents keep accounting virtually to the penny, which can be it's own type of annoying.  When I or they reimburse for something they or I bought, rounding to $10 is just fine instead of $9.98 or $10.02.

CryingInThePool

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2016, 02:49:09 PM »
I don't feel punished exactly, maybe because I don't have kids of my own so my less financially stable brother is also my heir.   

I do fear expectations being set that as the girl child with the high income I'm somehow going to end up with responsibility for my aging parents, adult brother, and his family.   I guess it's more like I fear future resentment if they become a burden due to mismanagement of money between parents and brother.  It hasn't happened yet but the risk is there and I fight against it as I can.

It's actually a big worry that depending on the day feeds into OLY or OMY.  Sometimes it's 'oh better quit and turn off the bank of CiTP and get traveling asap just in case' or 'need a bigger safety net in case brother tries to borrow money from fixed income parents for his remodel'.



KickingRocks

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2016, 03:27:27 PM »
You have to work twice as hard to get ahead in life if you do the right thing.


Screw ups always get rewarded. 

JetBlast

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2016, 03:57:05 PM »
It's never bothered me even a little. The more experience I've had as an adult, the more I've realized that I'm the odd one for not caring.

My brother is nearly 30 years old and he still has his car insurance and cell phone paid by my parents.  He recently had the first occasion to travel for business in his career, so my parents bought him luggage.  The fact that they do this for him bothers my wife somewhat, as she feels they're favoring him over me by paying bills or buying him things.  I honestly couldn't care.  We can take care of ourselves, so why do I need their money?

I have that same feeling of bemused confusion when I read the inheritance drama thread.  All these people that think they're owed money from a deceased relative.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  You're owed nothing, so be grateful for what you do get. The scheming to get around a legally enforceable will.  Raiding the home of the deceased for valuable objects when the body is still warm.  It's just sad and distasteful.  I know that my wife and I will almost certainly inherit a decent amount of money from both my parents and hers on their passings (hopefully still far in the future), but I've never cared to know how much, never used any of it to plan our financial future, and would be emotionally fine if they gave us nothing. I just don't care. We'll reach FI on our own and it will be all the more rewarding that way. 

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2016, 04:05:42 PM »
It's never bothered me even a little. The more experience I've had as an adult, the more I've realized that I'm the odd one for not caring.

My brother is nearly 30 years old and he still has his car insurance and cell phone paid by my parents.  He recently had the first occasion to travel for business in his career, so my parents bought him luggage.  The fact that they do this for him bothers my wife somewhat, as she feels they're favoring him over me by paying bills or buying him things.  I honestly couldn't care.  We can take care of ourselves, so why do I need their money?

I have that same feeling of bemused confusion when I read the inheritance drama thread.  All these people that think they're owed money from a deceased relative.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  You're owed nothing, so be grateful for what you do get. The scheming to get around a legally enforceable will.  Raiding the home of the deceased for valuable objects when the body is still warm.  It's just sad and distasteful.  I know that my wife and I will almost certainly inherit a decent amount of money from both my parents and hers on their passings (hopefully still far in the future), but I've never cared to know how much, never used any of it to plan our financial future, and would be emotionally fine if they gave us nothing. I just don't care. We'll reach FI on our own and it will be all the more rewarding that way.

I think you should care.  Not for the reasons you are stating.... Not because "he's getting more than me, wah!"  You should care because your parents are building a financial cripple.  And presumably they're doing this to someone you love. 

And (I don't know your brother... I am speaking in generalities from where I've seen it before) more often than not, the folks that get economic outpatient care are often busy destroying their lives in other ways.  Often the extended care is a mask for really bad things that are going on (alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, etc.)

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2016, 05:11:01 PM »
For those of you that are watching your parents give your siblings $ that they can't afford in the long run I would make it clear to all parties that you are supporting the parents in their old age because they are giving their $ away. To the person whose Mom gives more $ to the church then what you give her every month is crazy. You are donating to the church. That is fine if it is what you want to do.  I am 62 and have 3 kids. I have helped as needed and did not keep close track so is not equal to the penny.  They are fine with that. At this point they are in late 30's and early 40's so help no longer needed. Most help was in their 20's.  It is very, very hard not to enable family but it is not healthy for anyone in the long run.

Dezrah

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2016, 05:19:13 PM »
For a while I was very worried my parents would try to pay for my Younger Brother's medical school.  It was actually a hurdle to convince them my concern had nothing to do with money or favoritism; I genuinely didn't care about that.  Med school is not a small thing and YB would do it just because he wasn't sure what else to do with his life.  The worst thing they could do FOR HIM would be to give him money and force him down a path he really didn't want to be on.

YB is starting his Master's in Bio-mechanical Engineering this fall.  I have no idea who is paying for it but at least it's a cheaper degree and frankly a much better fit for his personality.  He's not unstable, just a bit wobbly (I was too) and giving him too much support at this time is going to hurt way more than it helps.

human

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2016, 05:22:29 PM »
we barely get cards at Christmas (our kids to get gifts to be fair).

parents are certainly not obligated to give to adult children

I need a way past this resentment so that it doesn't affect our relationship with our parents

Correct me if I'm wrong here . . . but you resent your parents because they're not giving you stuff you don't need, don't believe that they are obliged to give you, but you still feel entitled to it anyway?

The way past your resentment is to simply let it go.  What your parents and siblings choose to do is up to them.  How you choose to feel about it is up to you.

I was going to post something similar and saw this. I wish no one ever gave me gifts, every year I have to donate or throw away crap I don't need. It makes me sick that people spend money on useless stuff for me.

If no one is giving you gifts, slowly stop buying them gifts. If you already keep giving gifts to a minimum then what's all the whining about?

pbnj

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2016, 06:17:21 PM »
Glad I'm not the only one from a fucked up family.  So many of the stories sound familiar

For those who mentioned special needs siblings, that is quite different.  I never expected the financial care that my developmentally challenged sister received.  I have abilities that she does not have and often reassured our parents that I can take care of myself she can't so no worries.

However they did provide a lot of financial care to deadbeat addict brother.  I tried to discourage it but basically don't care.  Taking advantage of them is not on my conscience.  I can sleep at night.  What they did with their money was their business. 

galliver

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2016, 08:15:27 PM »
I am not sure I can relate completely (no one in my family gives sums of money on the order of down payments and weddings; though my parents did/are helping all three of us through college, but it's as a loan, with the expectation of being paid back). I have at times felt somewhat envious of my sisters growing up in much more stable times for our family (financially, immigration-ly, etc). The advantages in question are fairly small/silly though.

I could feel jilted that I had more chores as a kid, that I had less fashionable clothes and couldn't get ice cream or go to the movies with my friends as much. I could judge my sisters for not getting afterschool/summer jobs when they could do so far earlier than me, or learning to drive sooner. Instead, I choose to take pride in my accomplishments, and lifestyle, and self-sufficiency. I treat my sisters, and my parents, when I have the chance and a good idea. Small things; taking a sister to eat off-campus when I visit her at college, or picking up some small necessity/want, getting groceries/ingredients and cooking dinner when I visit home. It feels good to be generous, even just a little bit, and I think for me it helps reset the mindset from "what can/should my parents give me?" to "what can I give to my family?" But I also fully see how if there is actual dependence going on, the best thing to give one's family might be nothing and tough love.

okits

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2016, 08:29:05 PM »
I can kind of relate.  You're feeling emotions that you're probably not proud of (but family/sibling dynamics can be deeply ingrained, petty, and emotional to the exclusion of logic).

For me, I don't have the kind of temperament where I can tolerate being "owned" by anyone.  Money comes with strings attached.  And I'm proud to be a real grown up who can manage without mommy and daddy.  They gave me a solid launching pad and that's absolutely enough for me to run with.  If I were being subsidized with EOC I would be pretty damn embarrassed.

JetBlast

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2016, 10:20:15 PM »
It's never bothered me even a little. The more experience I've had as an adult, the more I've realized that I'm the odd one for not caring.

My brother is nearly 30 years old and he still has his car insurance and cell phone paid by my parents.  He recently had the first occasion to travel for business in his career, so my parents bought him luggage.  The fact that they do this for him bothers my wife somewhat, as she feels they're favoring him over me by paying bills or buying him things.  I honestly couldn't care.  We can take care of ourselves, so why do I need their money?

I have that same feeling of bemused confusion when I read the inheritance drama thread.  All these people that think they're owed money from a deceased relative.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  You're owed nothing, so be grateful for what you do get. The scheming to get around a legally enforceable will.  Raiding the home of the deceased for valuable objects when the body is still warm.  It's just sad and distasteful.  I know that my wife and I will almost certainly inherit a decent amount of money from both my parents and hers on their passings (hopefully still far in the future), but I've never cared to know how much, never used any of it to plan our financial future, and would be emotionally fine if they gave us nothing. I just don't care. We'll reach FI on our own and it will be all the more rewarding that way.

I think you should care.  Not for the reasons you are stating.... Not because "he's getting more than me, wah!"  You should care because your parents are building a financial cripple.  And presumably they're doing this to someone you love. 

And (I don't know your brother... I am speaking in generalities from where I've seen it before) more often than not, the folks that get economic outpatient care are often busy destroying their lives in other ways.  Often the extended care is a mask for really bad things that are going on (alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, etc.)

I wouldn't say he's a financial cripple, but I can see it has had some effects on him.  He was smart enough to pocket $30k buying a foreclosure, doing work on it while living in the home, and then selling it after about 18 months.  Sure, he used most of that profit to buy a big, fuel guzzling pick up, but at least he owns it free and clear.  He wouldn't fit in here as far as money management, but to my knowledge he has no debt and contributes a few percent to his 401k at work.

He could do much better as far a saving and overall financial knowledge, and I'm sure some of that is that he knows our parents are there as a safety net, but if it was sink or swim he would swim.  I'd like to see him be a little smarter with his money, but our personalities are very different and I don't see him changing any time soon.  I've offered to help him out with questions about investing or retirement planning, but it just isn't interesting to him in the same way it is to most of us on this site.   

Fortunately, the issues of drug or alcohol abuse do not seem to be affecting my brother. By his mid 20s he had seen three teammates from his pee wee hockey team die from drug and alcohol abuse.  It scared him straight.

SwordGuy

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2016, 10:58:25 PM »
We have two kids, one of whom is mentally retarded.  The other is doing just fine on his own.

Obviously, we feel under no obligation to treat them exactly the same.   

We're going to try setting up a trust.  The idea is that our son will inherit the property and assets, but that a specified percentage of the income would be reserved for our disabled daughter.

That way, the daughter is provided for but she won't actually own anything.   That will simplify inheritance drama since she won't have any heirs.

I have full faith that our son and his wife will do the right thing.  They are just that kind of people. :)  The odds are that the bulk of the estate won't go to our son (or very late in his life), it will go to his kids instead.

However, his first dad recently passed away and left his estate to our son and our son's step sister by the man's 3rd wife.    He didn't leave anything to our (and his) daughter.

We're not contesting the will on her behalf, we're just fine with that.   I know the lawyer representing the step daughter was surprised.   Possibly the step sister's parents were.
Our son wasn't.






MrMathMustache

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2016, 01:30:42 AM »
However, all of our adult siblings (my sister and his two siblings) always "need" money due to their poor choices.  We've always said 'no' but parents keep giving it to them along with buying them clothing, paying for their kids' medical stuff etc.  While we barely get cards at Christmas (our kids to get gifts to be fair).

Maybe my coffee just hasn't kicked in yet, but to whom have you always said "no?"  Your siblings have asked you for money in the past, and you've refused?  Or, your parents have offered money to you in the past for what they perceived as "needs", and you've refused?

I'm curious as to whether you as a couple believe you have strong relationships with your parents apart from this issue.  "Barely get cards at Christmas" makes me think that perhaps there isn't a solid bond there, which is why you're getting hung up on the financial transactions.

Maybe the path to getting over the resentment is a re-examination of the entire relationship with your parents, and finding ways that they can express their love and appreciation for you that don't involve money.

SachaFiscal

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2016, 04:10:04 AM »
I think you may be equating money with love. Maybe you feel like your parents love your siblings more because they are giving them money and not you.  They are probably very grateful that you are not a burden to them like the other siblings. in our lives we go from depending on our parents to depending on ourselves then to taking care of our parents (like they took care of us). It sounds like you are in the second phase now but your siblings haven't made it yet.  I think you should be proud of yourselves for being independent, but part of being a responsible adult is not expecting money or gifts from your parents. As an adult you should realize that giving money isn't as important as spending quality time with someone to show them you love them.

asauer

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2016, 05:54:33 AM »
Thanks all.  For those that say I shouldn't expect money- I don't, nor do I want to 'need' it.  I'm very proud of what I have accomplished on my own.  Also, I don't equate money with love.  I know my parents love me.  I just take issue with the inequity of the situation.  It's hard to see others being 'rewarded' for poor choices is all.  It's one thing to see it at work, it's another to see it in my family.  Thanks to all who provided encouraging words.  We'll get past it, it just sucks right now.

Pigeon

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2016, 06:14:07 AM »
From the perspective of a parent, I'm going to add that fair does not mean equal.  We are all different and have different capabilities.  I think most parents do their best and are learning along the way.  Most just want their children to reach a certain level of independence and kids get there in various ways.  I already see it on my 5 and 3 year old.  My 5 year old is quicker to pick things up, has a lot of confidence, and more independent.  Maybe it's because he had our undivided attention until his brother arrived.  My 3 year old is more cautious and needs more time to learn and try new things.  So I have to adjust my approach and expectations a bit.  I want both of them to reach their full potential but that could mean very different things for either of them.

I'm not saying no one should be hurt if one child gets a million dollars in financial support and the other one dollar.  But if a child wanted to go to a trade school and the other child to medical school then what are parents supposed to do give them both the same amount for medical school?  Even if the other child is already financially independent?

What about special needs children are all children also supposed to get the same amount of financial support and attention as the special needs one?

I'll be the first to admit that I felt this way when I was a teenager.  My brother got a car at 17 that was more expensive that what my parents were driving.  When I turned 17 I bought my own car, I didn't even ask for money because I worked and could afford it.  I felt a bit hurt after the fact but I also felt proud that I earned it on my own.

I disagree completely.  Barring a disability, fair does mean equal.  If one of my kids was going to med school and one to trade school, they'd get the same dollar amount of support.  The doctor could take on more debt.  She'd be making more money and could afford it.  My parents were very equal in their support of their kids and we all appreciated it.  Dh's were not, and it has caused issues.  Nobody says anything, but there are always going to be hurt feelings for some of their kids.

protostache

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2016, 06:29:08 AM »
Somewhat ironically, I have the opposite problem with my folks. They are utterly convinced that we have serious financial problems (because we don't buy lots of stuff) so they are constantly trying to give us money or buy us things.

It's always somewhat uncomfortable to tell them no because their heart is in the right place, but we don't want their money. We'd prefer they make needed improvements to their own life, like buying a smaller home more suited to a retired aging couple instead of the family home. But frugality runs in the my family so they won't and instead try to give it to us...

This happened to us with the birth of our daughter. We live far enough away from family to make it difficult for anyone to come help, even to babysit while we got a few hours sleep. My wife spent an afternoon one day calling around to family to try to convince someone to come stay with us for a few days, to no avail. One day shortly thereafter a check for thousands of dollars showed up in the mail from her dad, who apparently thought money would solve the problem. We didn't need money, we needed bodies! Her siblings all said to cash it because sending it back to him would be perceived as an insult, and he's definitely one to hold grudges.

It turned out fine in the end because we had already been planning on hiring a night doula once or twice, but because we had the  extra cash it made the decision easier to have the doula come twice a week for about a month and a half.

Paul der Krake

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2016, 06:46:52 AM »
To everyone counting their lucky stars that their family has their affairs in order: it can unravel very, very quickly. Just six months ago, I had a sibling gainfully employed, and two others well into their studies with good prospects. Today, only sibling #3 seems to be holding it together.

Sibling #1 quit his job cold turkey two months ago and hasn't even started looking for something else. My parents are currently paying for his housing and maintenance (to be fair, it's only a room in a shared apartment and he's not the spendy type) in one of the most expensive cities in the world. We have no idea what he does all day.

Sibling #2 stopped his studies in June for no real reason and took a minimum wage job in a supermarket. He has since been fired from said job under mysterious reasons.

Neither seems able to reliably pick up the phone or respond to emails from the people keeping them fed and housed (my parents). Screws are in the process of being tightened, which may or may not work. To be continued...

DaMa

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2016, 10:11:09 AM »
I completely understand.  I have one girlfriend, who like me has one sibling.  Both of our siblings can't quite make it on their own.  So when we get together, there is usually a few minutes spent catching up on what the siblings have done and sharing our reactions.   The tiny bit of resentment doesn't have any effect on our lives, but it's nice to have someone to vent to and share the emotions with.

iris lily

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2016, 10:46:55 AM »
This thread made me realize that my parents have heavily supported my brother, his wife, and my nephews and niece...I wasn't even thinking about it until now!

Well, I'll do the same thing as I do for my wife when she discusses a similar situation in her family - go to the library and check out an audio version of "Millionaire Next Door" or "Millionaire Mind" and fast forward to the sections on "Economic Outpatient Care" and listen to the outcomes and just be glad that I haven't had the temptation of the "easy life" put on me preventing me from succeeding.

Perhaps I don't ever think to begrudge my brother because I never really contemplated how much help he was getting and more importantly he passed away several years ago and it is kind of necessary at this point that my parents continue to support his family since he didn't have life insurance.  Now that I think about it, it is more my mom complaining to me than me ever having complained to my parents as she was telling me a few months ago how they just bought a whole living room set for my brother's family last year and they are asking for an entire new living room set this year again!  Oh well, they are adults and can make their own decisions.  I already told my parents that we are doing fine and not to worry about us (high income, just ramped up to high savings and well on our way to be FI).

Wow, "supporting his family" and buying them living room "sets" are nearly exclusive acts in my book.

"Support" looks like rent, utilities, food. Furniture to sit on can be obtained for free.

Your poor parens,mthey have been bamboozled!

tonysemail

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2016, 10:59:40 AM »
From the perspective of a parent, I'm going to add that fair does not mean equal.  We are all different and have different capabilities.  I think most parents do their best and are learning along the way.  Most just want their children to reach a certain level of independence and kids get there in various ways.  I already see it on my 5 and 3 year old.  My 5 year old is quicker to pick things up, has a lot of confidence, and more independent.  Maybe it's because he had our undivided attention until his brother arrived.  My 3 year old is more cautious and needs more time to learn and try new things.  So I have to adjust my approach and expectations a bit.  I want both of them to reach their full potential but that could mean very different things for either of them.

I'm not saying no one should be hurt if one child gets a million dollars in financial support and the other one dollar.  But if a child wanted to go to a trade school and the other child to medical school then what are parents supposed to do give them both the same amount for medical school?  Even if the other child is already financially independent?

What about special needs children are all children also supposed to get the same amount of financial support and attention as the special needs one?

I'll be the first to admit that I felt this way when I was a teenager.  My brother got a car at 17 that was more expensive that what my parents were driving.  When I turned 17 I bought my own car, I didn't even ask for money because I worked and could afford it.  I felt a bit hurt after the fact but I also felt proud that I earned it on my own.

I disagree completely.  Barring a disability, fair does mean equal.  If one of my kids was going to med school and one to trade school, they'd get the same dollar amount of support.  The doctor could take on more debt.  She'd be making more money and could afford it.  My parents were very equal in their support of their kids and we all appreciated it.  Dh's were not, and it has caused issues.  Nobody says anything, but there are always going to be hurt feelings for some of their kids.

I'll split the difference between you guys.  My family does not believe in splitting things equally. 
My grandma gifted my sister a german car for graduating high school (!!) and I got a watch. 
So what?  I have no hard feelings about it.
The most important thing is I can appreciate how lucky I've been in life, so there's no reason to get jealous about petty things.

OTOH in my wife's family, fairness was of utmost importance. 
My SIL got a free ride to medical school and my wife was cut a check to make things fair.
I think we'll have the same policy with my kids.
There's no reason to create a fairness issue when we have the means to avoid it.

Bucksandreds

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2016, 11:07:36 AM »
I see it as if it's not equal gifts for all kids than one child is stealing from the rest.

Pigeon

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Re: feeling punished for being the 'stable' child
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2016, 11:14:47 AM »
I see it as if it's not equal gifts for all kids than one child is stealing from the rest.

I wouldn't go that far.  The kid who gets all the goodies isn't the one who make the choice to be unfair and they may or may not be happy about the whole thing.

The med school education is an actual example from dh's family.  Two of his siblings had med school fully funded by their parents.   Dh paid for his own grad school.  It would be nice at least if the doctors recognized this in the slightest way.  We are presently looking at colleges for our kid and the doctors are appalled that we aren't looking at expensive private colleges.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!