Author Topic: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.  (Read 18064 times)

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2018, 08:01:59 PM »
I didn't read through the whole wall of text either. Mostly I spotted the "not enough sleep" and wanted to echo that getting your sleep in line is probably the most important thing you can do for yourself.

gerardc

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2018, 11:20:29 PM »
This post looks like it's time for a Mike Rowe video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY8ode602_8

Mike is a bit of a right winger.  I am not, but I think Mike has pragmatic advice.  He says see where all the people are going and go the other way.  That's where the jobs will be.

Interesting video but if there's an explosion of technical skill jobs and low worker supply as he says, why are those jobs still paying less than the high-education ones (doctors, lawyers, engineers)? Why doesn't the job market correct itself? Or maybe it has and I'm just ignoring the starving liberal arts majors and successful electrician entrepreneurs but still, I'd expect the job market to be a little more efficient than that.

pecunia

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2018, 06:17:23 AM »
gerardc:
Quote
Interesting video but if there's an explosion of technical skill jobs and low worker supply as he says, why are those jobs still paying less than the high-education ones (doctors, lawyers, engineers)?

Many of those jobs pay less because the entry fee is lower.  More education is required for the jobs that you mentioned.  The commitment required by the incumbent and the resources which must be garnered by the incumbent are greater.   In the interest of societal fairness, i would expect some degree of higher pay.  Supply and demand will dictate to some extent the degree of higher pay.  Politics will dictate the rest.

The OP is seeking better work opportunities.  I've watched videos by Mr. Rowe, primarily known for his dirty jobs reality TV show and believe there is some credibility to what he has said.  There are jobs out there that are overlooked by many people.  In fact, these jobs may be considered beneath what many people expect to be doing.  Yet, the jobs are honest work for honest pay and may be an option for the OP.  Mr. Rowe has cited examples of people actually performing the work for a period and then opening their own business performing the same work. 

These examples have allowed these people to be multi millionaires.  It could be the shotcrete (sprayed concrete) suggestion suggested previously is a viable option.  I've worked on jobs where they've had to bring in specialists to spray gunnite and I'll bet the pay was good.  Yes, the pay was not the same as for brain surgery, but it was honest necessary work.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2018, 04:46:02 PM »
In my opinion, part of the mustachian philosophy is the realisation that YOU can take control of your income. You're not dependent on what others will pay you. You can take this control in two ways. One, get a side hustle. Generating some income away from the whole wage-slave roundabout will make you feel so much more independent, even if it's just a small amount. Two, you control what the money you receive does. There are millions of folk out there on huge salaries who have far less going for them than the guy on $30,000 a year .... because they make poor money decisions. YOU can reduce your bills. YOU can save a little. YOU can invest a little. You have choices, and you certainly do not need to be on some of the incomes reported on this forum in order to benefit from those choices. I would worry less about my income and worry more about making the best of what I have. Once you start feeling less hopeless, THEN you can make some further changes.

And just btw, tech and professional are not the only paths to very high income. The trades can earn a small fortune. Remember the old saying: where there's muck, there's brass. Drainlayers make more than the majority of IT professionals in my part of the world. And it's a much easier road to self employment as well.

powskier

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2018, 09:43:55 AM »
It can take a long time ( 6 months to 2 years...) to reset your body chemistry after a sustained time period of not enough sleep. Lack of sleep can bring on symptoms of depression. Take physical care of your self first, good food, water and sleep.
Sometimes it takes time to work yourself into good paying gigs, rarely do people start at high pay. Keep on doing a good job at whatever you do and keep on looking at what is available. Opportunities will arise, especially once you get regular sleep;)

jodelino

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2018, 10:53:29 AM »
Government jobs don't necessarily have large salaries, but they often come with excellent benefits: great health insurance and pension plans. You might want to see what kind of jobs your city, county, and state government are posting. Good luck.

babysnowbyrd

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2018, 01:28:59 PM »
Hi guys! Checking in.

After reaching out to friends I have a couple leads on jobs. One seemed to good to be true starting around $20 but a couple people in the jobs have told me about it so hopefully it'll work out for me as well. I won't be able to care for my niece but school is starting soon so I'll keep watching her until then. I haven't told my family yet because I feel bad, but I will today so they have a couple weeks to figure out who to watch her between when her parents go to work before school starts and after school before they get off work.

I seriously doubt that the jobs I'm looking into will allow me to come after 9 am and leave before 3 but I'd be willing to work 6 days/week to make up for it. Ah well.

It's another customer service type job with some sales. Having worked plenty of call center jobs my initial reaction was to avoid it like the plague but at $20/hr it's almost double what other call center jobs pay so I'm hoping that bringing in double what I'm used to struggling on will take the edge off. It's amazing how just the thought of more money makes me feel relaxed and better able to handle what might still be a sucky job. I mean, I obviously hope I like it. It's financial stuff, so I'm hoping I'll feel like I'm helping others rather than selling crappy investments and upselling useless products to people. I asked the people currently working there and one answered back that while there are sales targets, he didn't feel that he was constantly under pressure to sell, sell, sell and he didn't feel like he was selling bad products to people. He's moved on to a different position in the company now so he's not on the phones anymore.

I'm hoping this will work out but I also don't want to get my hopes up in case it's terrible and it all comes crashing down. I get that business is business but I can't stand when the environment is high pressure to sell crap that people don't need to them. Some people have a thicker skin for that kind of stuff and seem to drink the company kool-aid and really go for those top commissions and still sleep fine at night. I just can't do it. "Yay! I made the top three this week in sales by convincing 250 people to but a product with insane fees! Yay me!" usually to be followed by some manager pushing me to make it my sales target to dupe 275 people next week.

Crossing my fingers, guys. Thanks again for the support (most of you). I thought it might be really stupid to post here but it's really helped so I'm glad I did it anyway.

babysnowbyrd

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2018, 01:57:38 PM »


Why do they think you wouldn't be a good fit? Do you have a disability?


I'm a severe asthmatic so physical activity can often be problematic and obviously anything that involves dust/chemicals I might be exposed to. I'm physically pretty weak. I'd have to get caught up on getting some stronger medications to start out with if I'm going to be doing more manual stuff. I know I'd get physically stronger the more labor I do but it might take me a while to get there. I think even if I were to be given a chance at a trade vs an office job, I worry that I might be more of a burden than a help when it comes down to getting the job done. Once the asthma is triggered, I have to stop what I'm doing, medicate (inhaler for quick response and then nebulizer for longer-lasting more thorough help) and take it easy until lungs are no longer inflamed/swollen. So it would be a full stop.

Quote

If you have an interest in a trade, pursue it. If not, don't pursue it. I would build on an existing interest you might have that can help you develop skills and experience you might be able to use later on if you want to start your own business.


I'm just now learning that I've enjoyed working with things vs computer/paperwork. I've never had any jobs that allowed me to discover/explore that earlier so I have interests but no real experience to know if I'd actually enjoy something or if I just have a habit of trying one thing after another etc.


CindyBS

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2018, 06:10:48 PM »
One thing you mentioned is that your are a caregiver for a disabled child.

My son is critically ill and I am in that same role (albeit 24/7 in my case).  Don't underestimate how much this can be affecting your mental health.  For the parents of kids with my son's disability, a full 25% of them go on to have PTSD from it.  I recently read a paper that mothers of kids with autism often have stress levels akin to those experienced by combat soldiers (I assume they meant kids with low functioning autism).

If you are caring for her a lot of hours of the week, it really can be a soul sucking experience.  Our culture acts like that is no big deal to be a caregiver, and makes it seem like you are a jerk if you say that an innocent disabled child is harming you, but it really is a mentally trying experience.

I would recommend getting into a facebook group or some online support group for caregivers with this child's disability if you are going to continue.  Also, it is ok to say you can't do it anymore. 

Just Joe

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2018, 10:40:21 AM »
Are you a good technical person? You could focus on learning to write software, repair machines (computers or vehicles), medical equipment repair, etc. The more technical, the fewer people out there that can compete with you.

swampwiz

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2018, 03:10:38 PM »
Hi guys! Checking in.

After reaching out to friends I have a couple leads on jobs. One seemed to good to be true starting around $20 but a couple people in the jobs have told me about it so hopefully it'll work out for me as well. I won't be able to care for my niece but school is starting soon so I'll keep watching her until then. I haven't told my family yet because I feel bad, but I will today so they have a couple weeks to figure out who to watch her between when her parents go to work before school starts and after school before they get off work.

So this child is your niece, and not your own (there is a difference in the level of moral responsibility).  Your family will feel "bad" about you not taking care of your niece, but they do they feel bad about you not having an income?  Do they give you some of their income to make up for your lost income?

socaso

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2018, 03:49:42 PM »
Best of luck to you with the two new opportunities. I hope one pans out! I just wanted you to know you are not the only person to feel this way. I also have a degree in a non-big-buck field (arts-related) and worked for years in jobs that paid very little and had virtually no opportunity to advance. I felt very down on myself and thought there was no way things would change but eventually I did get a better opportunity and in under a year in that job I was offered a promotion and now I'm making a lot more money and have a more reasonable schedule and things are really so much better. I still fret that it could all go away, those feelings take a long time to go away. Just know you are not alone.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2018, 11:34:04 AM »
Hi guys! Checking in.

After reaching out to friends I have a couple leads on jobs. One seemed to good to be true starting around $20 but a couple people in the jobs have told me about it so hopefully it'll work out for me as well. I won't be able to care for my niece but school is starting soon so I'll keep watching her until then. I haven't told my family yet because I feel bad, but I will today so they have a couple weeks to figure out who to watch her between when her parents go to work before school starts and after school before they get off work.

So this child is your niece, and not your own (there is a difference in the level of moral responsibility).  Your family will feel "bad" about you not taking care of your niece, but they do they feel bad about you not having an income?  Do they give you some of their income to make up for your lost income?

Yeah, I hate the assumption that women in families should be totally willing to happily give up their own incomes for caregiving roles. One of my brother's was seriously offended that I didn't drop out of nursing school when my mother got cancer to care for her full time. I asked why HE didn't quit his job to do it, and he had no answer. I just find it really, really frustrating!

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2018, 01:01:26 PM »
Everybody conveniently ignored the comment about spraying concrete and making $70k. Why is this not an option?

Heh.  You serious?  Come on, breh.
No really, why isn't it an option? Or another job that involves literally getting your hands  dirty but pays well?

OP hasn't responded as to why, but OP's family has told them they are not suited for trades.  I would argue that many family members are not capable of giving good advice.  I was told by many in my family that I wasn't cut out for trades.  Why?  Because I made good grades in school and didn't show any inclination as a child to work on things.  Long story short, I went to college, have a white-collar job, and now work with my hands as a hobby.  People are often wrong about these things.

Now, you and I both know you can't just walk into 70K spraying concrete.  I'm sure some people make a lot doing so, but you don't start out making 70K.  My entire family is comprised of blue collar/tradesmen.  As OP stated, you start out at the bottom of a trade like any other profession.  Is there anything wrong with that?  No.  But, I wanted to state it is a fallacy that you walk into trades knowing very little and make a lot.  Most require a lot of experience and many are requiring education/certifications/licenses now to do really well.

You're absolutely right starting pay is not $70k but I never said that. Staring is in the $15-$20/hr range depending on location. With under a year and a desire to learn with a clean driving record (that is critical) you would be able to command $35/hr. The jobs are all over Indeed.com which is where the owner of the company I talked to advertised. And they can't even get entry level people. Salaries have risen 50% in the past year at his company.

Even a CDL driver, a couple years ago they'd post on CL and within a month have 30 resumes. Now they get about three.

This guy started out after college working with concrete because it paid more than using his degree. Fast forward and now he owns multiple companies, a high end pool company and the gunnite company as well.

I just searched “Concrete” on Indeed. ("Concrete Sprayer" did not return any results.) Here are the first 10 results in my city, without cherry-picking:

Concrete Finisher - $15 - $20 per hour - 2 years of experience required
Concrete Cutter – no wage information shown – requires “solid experience with concrete sawing, cutting, and/or removal”
Concrete Worker - $13 - $20 per hour – 1 year of experience required
Concrete Worker – no wage information shown – “must have previous experience in concrete work”
Concrete and Demo Laborer - $15 - $18 per hour – “person has to have concrete and demo skills
Concrete Finisher – no wage information shown – 5 years experience required
Concrete Worker - $12 - $16 per hour – one year experience required
Pump Operator Trainee & Helper – no wage information shown – requires “general construction knowledge.”
Concrete Finisher - $13 - $30 per hour – requires 5 years experience
Concrete Finisher/Labor – now wage information given – requires 2 years of finishing experience

So it looks like someone with no experience could possibly squeak by as a Pump Operator Helper, assuming s/he has construction knowledge. That job also required a litany of other requirements that made the employer look hostile to total noobs.

These companies are greedy assholes. They want some other company to do all the training so they can get a polished pro for no investment.

Starting in the trades is not as simple as you think.

inline five

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2018, 01:22:21 PM »
Everybody conveniently ignored the comment about spraying concrete and making $70k. Why is this not an option?

Heh.  You serious?  Come on, breh.
No really, why isn't it an option? Or another job that involves literally getting your hands  dirty but pays well?

OP hasn't responded as to why, but OP's family has told them they are not suited for trades.  I would argue that many family members are not capable of giving good advice.  I was told by many in my family that I wasn't cut out for trades.  Why?  Because I made good grades in school and didn't show any inclination as a child to work on things.  Long story short, I went to college, have a white-collar job, and now work with my hands as a hobby.  People are often wrong about these things.

Now, you and I both know you can't just walk into 70K spraying concrete.  I'm sure some people make a lot doing so, but you don't start out making 70K.  My entire family is comprised of blue collar/tradesmen.  As OP stated, you start out at the bottom of a trade like any other profession.  Is there anything wrong with that?  No.  But, I wanted to state it is a fallacy that you walk into trades knowing very little and make a lot.  Most require a lot of experience and many are requiring education/certifications/licenses now to do really well.

You're absolutely right starting pay is not $70k but I never said that. Staring is in the $15-$20/hr range depending on location. With under a year and a desire to learn with a clean driving record (that is critical) you would be able to command $35/hr. The jobs are all over Indeed.com which is where the owner of the company I talked to advertised. And they can't even get entry level people. Salaries have risen 50% in the past year at his company.

Even a CDL driver, a couple years ago they'd post on CL and within a month have 30 resumes. Now they get about three.

This guy started out after college working with concrete because it paid more than using his degree. Fast forward and now he owns multiple companies, a high end pool company and the gunnite company as well.

I just searched “Concrete” on Indeed. ("Concrete Sprayer" did not return any results.) Here are the first 10 results in my city, without cherry-picking:

Concrete Finisher - $15 - $20 per hour - 2 years of experience required
Concrete Cutter – no wage information shown – requires “solid experience with concrete sawing, cutting, and/or removal”
Concrete Worker - $13 - $20 per hour – 1 year of experience required
Concrete Worker – no wage information shown – “must have previous experience in concrete work”
Concrete and Demo Laborer - $15 - $18 per hour – “person has to have concrete and demo skills
Concrete Finisher – no wage information shown – 5 years experience required
Concrete Worker - $12 - $16 per hour – one year experience required
Pump Operator Trainee & Helper – no wage information shown – requires “general construction knowledge.”
Concrete Finisher - $13 - $30 per hour – requires 5 years experience
Concrete Finisher/Labor – now wage information given – requires 2 years of finishing experience

So it looks like someone with no experience could possibly squeak by as a Pump Operator Helper, assuming s/he has construction knowledge. That job also required a litany of other requirements that made the employer look hostile to total noobs.

These companies are greedy assholes. They want some other company to do all the training so they can get a polished pro for no investment.

Starting in the trades is not as simple as you think.

Nice Google fu

I sat next to the guy who owned the design company and the gunnite company.

What I wrote is what he told me.

Companies ask for experience all the time, but what they want are trainable employees who show up for work.

STARTING in trades is easy, people just don't want to but forth the effort and time in order to stay the course. They don't look one to two years down the line.

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2018, 01:24:21 PM »
Can you just pay someone to give you concrete spraying lessons?  Couldn't you get the hang of it over 2 days of intense study and practice?   Go to Home Depot, get the concrete, get the machine, get the expert -- learn.  Bam, you now have experience.  You can use that experience to spray concrete for a friend or neighbor for a good price ($1).  Bam, you have professional experience getting paid to spray concrete.

You may have found a loophole, but not for the jobs that require X-years experience - the majority of them.

inline five

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2018, 01:29:04 PM »
Can you just pay someone to give you concrete spraying lessons?  Couldn't you get the hang of it over 2 days of intense study and practice?   Go to Home Depot, get the concrete, get the machine, get the expert -- learn.  Bam, you now have experience.  You can use that experience to spray concrete for a friend or neighbor for a good price ($1).  Bam, you have professional experience getting paid to spray concrete.

Well it's a little more involved than that. These are large scale engineering projects. You start at the bottom and work your way up.

Or, you could be an underemployed barista at Starbucks complaining about your low paying dead end job.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 01:31:58 PM by inline five »

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2018, 01:32:40 PM »
Companies ask for experience all the time, but what they want are trainable employees who show up for work.

Why wouldn't they just put in the job posting exactly what they want instead of discouraging would-be applicants?

As a general rule, my bullshit detector goes to 11 whenever someone talks about how simple something is.

"It simple to fix the economy, all you have to do is..."

"Peace in the middle-east? No problem, just carpet-bomb the entire area." (This was actually told to me once)

"Trade wars are good and easy to win"

No, no, no. Most problems are ridiculously complicated with a lot of moving parts.

FIRE@50

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2018, 01:39:54 PM »
I think the terms simple and easy should not be used interchangeably. I think the solution to many problems is simple, that doesn't make it easy.

Want to FIRE in 10 years? The math is shockingly simple. The process is not easy.
Want a good paying job? Simple, start at the bottom, work hard, be patient. Not easy.
I could go on and on about tax plans, poverty, the environment, etc.

inline five

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2018, 02:00:03 PM »
Companies ask for experience all the time, but what they want are trainable employees who show up for work.

Why wouldn't they just put in the job posting exactly what they want instead of discouraging would-be applicants?

As a general rule, my bullshit detector goes to 11 whenever someone talks about how simple something is.

"It simple to fix the economy, all you have to do is..."

"Peace in the middle-east? No problem, just carpet-bomb the entire area." (This was actually told to me once)

"Trade wars are good and easy to win"

No, no, no. Most problems are ridiculously complicated with a lot of moving parts.

???

You're not going to come in off the street making $70k spraying concrete. I never said that. In fact if you go back in the thread and read my post history you'll see exactly what I was referring to.

You don't need any experience to start working in concrete. Hell you don't even need to speak English. Take an entry level position, take it seriously, and learn the trade. Just pick a trade that has good earning potential.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 02:02:52 PM by inline five »

BigMoneyJim

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2018, 05:10:57 PM »
OP, I don't know you, but you don't seem to have found a "normal" career path you wish to stick with, so you might want to stop listening to some of these relatives and start forging your own path. I have no idea what that looks like, but for me I generally tried different things (within a more "normal" career path, but oh well) and took advantages of opportunities that came along that interested me, and sometimes that led to unexpected places.

Nothing exciting, really. In my case I do like computer stuff, and the past 20-30 years has been a fantastic time to be employed as a guy who likes computer stuff.

But I will say the degree you already have is a ticket that gets past some job gateways no matter what it's for or how old it is. I think I agree it's probably not wise to pursue paying for other schooling for career purposes unless/until you find a path forward you're passionate bout and need to complete some schooling to get to the next level.

4. Remove as much advertising as possible from your life.

Yeah, this. The ads apparently know what works. Back in the day when I'd get computer magazines and/or photography magazines I bought a lot more stuff. I don't remember why I stopped with the magazines, but I did, and I stopped craving and buying so much stuff.

swampwiz

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2018, 05:26:35 PM »
Companies ask for experience all the time, but what they want are trainable employees who show up for work.

Why wouldn't they just put in the job posting exactly what they want instead of discouraging would-be applicants?

As an "unemployable" computer programmer who has viewed many such job listings, I think it is that either there really isn't a strong need to add a new employee at this job, but that if the candidate with the perfect experience shows up, he can be put to use, by going after new business, or firing a current troublesome employee, etc.  It could also be that eventually a new employee is going to be hired, and so the hiring process is just set up for a long time to maximize its use.  Of course, it could also be a ploy to fill out an H1B foreign worker visa application with "evidence" that a purple squirrel could not be sourced locally.

BigMoneyJim

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2018, 09:25:59 PM »
Oh, yeah, another important thing about forums and sites like this: *most* visitors are perpetual lurkers. Very few actually post, and fewer post prolifically. And of the posters, most only share the good stuff and hide the bad stuff. Not necessarily to mislead people, but happy successful people are just more likely to share than down-on-their-luck folks, and if you're happy now why would you want to bother the world with that particularly tough 5- or 20-year slog before you finally made it?

So this can be good for inspiration while simultaneously make you feel like a failure for not having $500k or more saved by age 30 after growing up an orphan and begging on the streets until age 25 like everyone else. Just understand that you're generally reading the tales well past the good side of the standard deviation. Some people post their failures, and when posting success remember to include that they had a lot of help from inheritances, family, etc., and some seem to focus on just the successful parts.

Unique User

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2018, 06:32:41 AM »
Oh, yeah, another important thing about forums and sites like this: *most* visitors are perpetual lurkers. Very few actually post, and fewer post prolifically. And of the posters, most only share the good stuff and hide the bad stuff. Not necessarily to mislead people, but happy successful people are just more likely to share than down-on-their-luck folks, and if you're happy now why would you want to bother the world with that particularly tough 5- or 20-year slog before you finally made it?

So this can be good for inspiration while simultaneously make you feel like a failure for not having $500k or more saved by age 30 after growing up an orphan and begging on the streets until age 25 like everyone else. Just understand that you're generally reading the tales well past the good side of the standard deviation. Some people post their failures, and when posting success remember to include that they had a lot of help from inheritances, family, etc., and some seem to focus on just the successful parts.

+1  Sometimes I read this forum and am amazed and how together and focused people are.  I'll be hopefully retiring in early 2020 six months after my 50th birthday and I think I've made every stupid mistake there is.  As much as I hate megacorps and my current non-megacorp wanna be company, both my husband and I started at the bottom 10 years ago and each have multiple promotions and pay raises since then.  We both worked hard, tried to provide value and most importantly and this seems to be the one thing people don't do - raise our hands for promotions, extra projects, etc.  I'm just an internet stranger - but if I were you, I'd avoid retail and restaurant jobs like the plague and try to get in at a large employer, whatever the job.  Being eager, smart and caring about the company's bottom line puts you ahead of 80-90% of the people out there. 

Also, and again - internet stranger that does not know your situation - you are caring for your niece so her parents can work.  I understand family ties, but you are enabling them to work at your detriment. 

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2018, 10:44:30 AM »
Oh, yeah, another important thing about forums and sites like this: *most* visitors are perpetual lurkers. Very few actually post, and fewer post prolifically. And of the posters, most only share the good stuff and hide the bad stuff. Not necessarily to mislead people, but happy successful people are just more likely to share than down-on-their-luck folks, and if you're happy now why would you want to bother the world with that particularly tough 5- or 20-year slog before you finally made it?

So this can be good for inspiration while simultaneously make you feel like a failure for not having $500k or more saved by age 30 after growing up an orphan and begging on the streets until age 25 like everyone else. Just understand that you're generally reading the tales well past the good side of the standard deviation. Some people post their failures, and when posting success remember to include that they had a lot of help from inheritances, family, etc., and some seem to focus on just the successful parts.

This is where the journals can be nice. You see more of the struggles to the process, and more of the in-progress people rather than the "we have arrived" people.

mozar

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2018, 09:25:31 AM »
Are you getting all the benefits you are entitled to? Food stamps etc. Also I just heard of a website called nanny lane. It's for finding nannies and all of the jobs are required to pay at least minimum wage where you live.

babysnowbyrd

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #76 on: November 22, 2018, 06:49:17 PM »
I just want to update everyone. It's been a few months since my original post. I got a new job, graveyard shift. The pay isn't super great (15/hr) but I get to keep my other side jobs and I'm still able to help out with my disabled niece.

I'm tired a lot though so trying to keep taking care of myself is getting a bit harder. However, my graveyard shift involves quite a bit of walking (I did almost 7 miles one day according to my fitness tracker on my phone!) so that's good that no matter what, I've got some regular movement built in! Also there's no real easy way to get food during the night so it kind of forces me to be prepared and bring homemade food with me.

To be honest, even with the extra money I still feel quite a bit of anxiety that it's going to take forever. I read MMMs most recent article and I wish so bad I had the freedom to try and fail at more things but so far, I haven't had a good foundation so all of my entrepreneurial failures have really sunk me deeper than ever before. Still, I know I can't fast-track my way to FIRE by earning a $15 hourly wage. Hopefully I can dig myself out of the current hole I'm in to the point I can at least have a little bit of wiggle room.

Another update, my niece's mother has almost finished her degree and is already looking at a good employment opportunity out of state in her new field. I'm sorry I won't be able to be as involved in my niece's life, but that will open up some more options for me. I'm honestly really thinking about getting a CDL and going for trucking. I've lived in a van before, and I like driving, so I think I'll actually do just fine with the lifestyle. I've got a friend that's been trying to get me to get into the business and and uncle who has also been a trucker. They both have confirmed how much truckers are needed. Even on the low end as a beginner, I'll be making more than I have before, plus I'll be able to get rid of expenses for rent and a personal car. If I take my friend up on his offer, I may even become his business partner in our own company. That's still a ways though. I won't go into it until my niece moves away.

I want to thank everyone for your support. It's still an uphill battle but yeah. Hopefully I can get there someday.

undercover

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #77 on: November 22, 2018, 09:54:02 PM »
I want to thank everyone for your support. It's still an uphill battle but yeah. Hopefully I can get there someday.

Congrats!

Don't think that you'll ever "get there". Everyone's life is an uphill battle. Everyone has problems. Some problems are just better problems to have than others, but they're still problems nonetheless. The point is that hopefully you can find something that you enjoy and can make the suffering more tolerable and eventually feel like you're not suffering for no reason anymore.

Happiness and security shouldn't be the end goal because both of those feelings are temporary and fleeting. Feeling good about what you're doing is all you can do and is all anyone can really achieve in life.

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2018, 03:03:43 AM »
I want to thank everyone for your support. It's still an uphill battle but yeah. Hopefully I can get there someday.

Congrats!

Don't think that you'll ever "get there". Everyone's life is an uphill battle. Everyone has problems. Some problems are just better problems to have than others, but they're still problems nonetheless. The point is that hopefully you can find something that you enjoy and can make the suffering more tolerable and eventually feel like you're not suffering for no reason anymore.

Happiness and security shouldn't be the end goal because both of those feelings are temporary and fleeting. Feeling good about what you're doing is all you can do and is all anyone can really achieve in life.




I think perhaps with some of the challenges you face you shouldn't beat yourself up so much and compare your success with others. That can be the downside of these threads at times.  Your doing it now and its a struggle but now that you have figured away to get the ball rolling keep looking for other jobs during this time that can improve your situation. Good Luck to you! and kudos to you for having the courage to share your situation, perhaps you got some help from those sensitive to your situation

Dave1442397

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #79 on: November 23, 2018, 05:48:04 AM »
I'm honestly really thinking about getting a CDL and going for trucking. I've lived in a van before, and I like driving, so I think I'll actually do just fine with the lifestyle. I've got a friend that's been trying to get me to get into the business and and uncle who has also been a trucker. They both have confirmed how much truckers are needed. Even on the low end as a beginner, I'll be making more than I have before, plus I'll be able to get rid of expenses for rent and a personal car. If I take my friend up on his offer, I may even become his business partner in our own company. That's still a ways though. I won't go into it until my niece moves away.

I want to thank everyone for your support. It's still an uphill battle but yeah. Hopefully I can get there someday.

I recently read this book about a guy who dropped out of college to become a trucker. He seems to have done quite well for himself, although newer electronic logging requirements would definitely have cut into his profits back in the day :)

The Long Haul: A Trucker's Tales of Life on the Road, by Finn Murphy
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M2XRQ50/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0


exterous

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #80 on: November 23, 2018, 06:32:28 AM »
To be honest, even with the extra money I still feel quite a bit of anxiety that it's going to take forever. I read MMMs most recent article and I wish so bad I had the freedom to try and fail at more things but so far, I haven't had a good foundation so all of my entrepreneurial failures have really sunk me deeper than ever before. Still, I know I can't fast-track my way to FIRE by earning a $15 hourly wage. Hopefully I can dig myself out of the current hole I'm in to the point I can at least have a little bit of wiggle room.

Life has different milestones and paths for everyone and being on forums like this one or bogleheads can make you wonder "Geeze what am I doing wrong that I don't have Half a, $1 or $5 million saved by 32?!" when you're still on a better long term path than many on this planet. And I wouldn't focus too much on how much you make for your first job. Getting experience is often a prerequisite for better jobs so I would imagine most people have not so great stories about their first or first couple of jobs. I know I do. But make sure to not take those jobs for granted as you can start molding opinions and forming relationships that may be useful down the road and in ways you don't expect. Your boss may notice your hard work and give you a glowing reference to the hiring manager of a better job. A boss in a different area of the company might notice your hard work and dedication and decide you'd be a good fit for their team who has more interesting work and pays better. (The latter happened to me)

Glad to hear things seem to be moving in the right direction!

PoutineLover

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2018, 06:39:58 AM »
My dad's a trucker, but he only does short haul. It's an okay job, but some things to look out for are whether runs go by seniority, cause then when you start you only get the shit ones, if you get paid by mile or hour, cause by mile sitting in traffic or waiting for a load sucks, and if the company respects the law, since you can't drive more than a certain number of hours by some companies might tell you to rush, which can get you in big trouble. Also, if you're going to do long haul, you might miss out on social opportunities. But whatever you decide, good luck, and I think you have the right attitude to succeed, even if you are currently struggling. There are lots of us here making more average wages still on the way to fire or even just live better so don't be intimidated by the big numbers.

Omy

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #82 on: November 23, 2018, 06:40:57 AM »
I noticed that you looked into being an appraiser. Have you considered a job as a real estate agent?

It's a relatively inexpensive way to have your own business. There's no ceiling on how much you make - it depends on how much you put into it. Most full service brokerages train you for free after you get your license (which doesn't take very much time or money). And it's something you can do part time to see if you enjoy it. It's easiest if you live in a moderate to high cost of living area with a healthy economy where houses sell quickly.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

pecunia

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #83 on: November 23, 2018, 11:43:20 AM »
Baby Snow Bird:

I have been working on the road.  I follow a lot of the big rigs.  I curse a lot of the big rigs for being slow and blocking my visibility.  While engaging in my immature emotional outbursts, I very often see ads on the back of these trucks that they are looking for drivers.  It could be a good choice.  The schooling doesn't take long and unless you have to load and unload should not tax your respiratory system.

It could give you the opportunity to start your own business.  I'm thinking the price of a rig is $50,000 and up.  A few years of driving could get you started.

It could lead to yet another endeavor. 

Good luck with that.

Johnez

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2018, 01:34:26 PM »
Baby Snow Bird,

Getting a well paying job is hard. Doing it as an adult from scratch is hard. It especially sucks when you come to the conclusion that 10 years or so (my case) has been a total waste. Regardless of the reasons, it pays to evaluate the situation from a point of view of *how* to move forward. Not assign blame (to self or others), not to beat yourself up on where you are compared to others. I think from your OP this is the crux of your problem. When everyone you see is kicking ass, it doesn't feel like anything you do can pan out. Also, remember a lot of starting positions are low wage but can lead to very high wage positions. If unsure, I recommend looking up big companies that you notice in day to day life in the products you use and come across. Coca Cola, Kroger, Kraft, Chobani, etc. It seems these are all food related heh, but anyways all of these companies have several divisions. Coke for example has Sales, Drivers, Mechanics, Warehouse, Advertising, Finance, Managerial, Production, Chemists. Tons of areas for growth. Get in as a merchandiser and I guarantee you have the field wide open for growth. Companies like Coke love to promote within and post internal job postings. Companies like Coke also pay for schooling (strings attached). Anyways, I advise all of my friends to go this route when looking for new opportunities after suffering low wage jobs.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 04:22:16 PM by Johnez »

MMMarbleheader

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2018, 04:47:00 PM »
Laborers unions in Boston are basically taking anyone who can put on a safety harness and pass a drug test at this point. Get in, work hard, and you will move up. The talent out there now is terrible.

big_slacker

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #86 on: November 25, 2018, 07:15:06 AM »
There has been some great advice on this thread already. I can also echo that progress is not linear and doesn't require you to have your shit together from the get go. I made so many mistakes and was so lost at times it's almost comical looking back now. I will say once I got rolling it was amazing how fast things happened. I can look at the social security site and see EXACTLY where everything clicked because income starts ramping up by 4 and 5 digit amounts year over year.

It wasn't so long ago that I've forgotten what did it for me.

1. Taking complete ownership of my situation and the flip side of that, realizing that I had complete control over my own actions. This is so easy to say, but took YEARS to fully internalize as a core part of my identity.
2. Being brutally honest about my strengths and weaknesses and how they applied to my value in the job market. I had some skills, but they were ones a lot of people had. And I was missing a lot of the things that separate drones from higher level positions. Strategic business sense, communication style, confidence/speaking with authority, etc.
3. The output of #2 was a high level strategy to get from my current low level of value to a higher level where I wanted to be.
4. A SPECIFIC plan to meet my strategic goals. And then working the plan, day after day. THOUSANDS of hours working towards those skills.
5. Final thing, always looking for the next step up and the will to go for it. Even if it meant moving not just jobs but location. I moved 5 times in 10 years for work.

The above really worked for me, or I should say is working for me since it hasn't stopped. It feels good to be moving yourself forward, always, in some way big or small.

afox

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2018, 03:16:04 PM »
A good podcast episode about worker pay:
https://moneyfortherestofus.com/231-determines-much-make/


ditheca

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #88 on: December 01, 2018, 07:37:08 PM »
I can confirm that appraisers are falling out of fashion.  Many brokerages are already doing computer-only appraisals; the profession is likely to be entirely automated within the next 5 years.

blackomen

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #89 on: December 01, 2018, 09:06:30 PM »
I think my title is a bit misleading, so I hope I can adequately explain.

I think I'm a bit depressed right now which may be affecting my view of reality, but right now I rather FEEL like my perception is the the most honest I've been.

I feel incapable of getting a well-paying job. I have a degree but not in a specific money-making field. I've failed at starting a couple businesses. I'm out of ideas and even if I did have one, I'm too gun shy to spend much time/money on them atm as every time I've tried to "beat the system" and be my own boss or try an non-traditional route I've sunk myself deeper financially.

I've gone over and over the jobs MMM listed as being well-paid but it seems there's always rather large "catches" to the ones I could actually see myself doing. For example, one of the ones that appealed to me was Appraiser. I found out that due to the housing bubble bursting, changes in the industry have basically made apprentices not just worthless but a burden to current appraisers. It's very difficult to get someone to take you one to get the required number of hours. I gave up on the idea but later brought it up with an appraiser who came by when my last landlord sold the townhome I was living in. I thought maybe what I had learned might have been a bit over-the-top gloomy and maybe it wasn't so bad but the guy basically confirmed it. He made good money yes, but he started years ago. He told me his own brother had been asking questions about the job and he wouldn't even take on his brother as an apprentice. He works tons of hours (part of seemed like to keep current lifestyle up but still...). He seemed quite bitter about his current life/work. He also told me some of the reasons why he thinks appraisers are very close to becoming obsolete entirely.

I could give more examples but I realize they just sound like excuses and I can't say they aren't. I understand that I will probably need to spend some money on training to learn a new skill that could be more marketable but almost nothing seems like a real slam dunk. When I look into carpentry, welding, electrician etc, it seems to me that there are big claims made up front that they pay better than most office drone jobs but when I look further a lot of the starting salaries in my area seem pretty low. I also have family members in some of the labor fields and when I've asked about them they're always pretty sure I wouldn't be a good fit. I don't think they're just trying to be downers. I trust their opinion of my physical ability and their descriptions of the what the job is actually like.

I'm terrified of spending money on any additional learning because I already have student loans and like I said, everything else I've spent money on has been a waste. At this point I can't help but think the obvious common denominator among all the failures is myself. I understand that I'm depressed right now, but my reality is still the same even when I'm not feeling this way. When I'm NOT depressed, I have the hope that gets me to try different things that eventually sink me even further.

I haven't had a traditional job in a few years. I used to hold at least three jobs at a time averaging about 3-5 hours of sleep a night. I did that for almost three straight years after I got my degree. I got burnt out and disillusioned. They were all pretty low paying but at one point I was really close to paying off all my consumer debts except for the student loans. That's when I quit my "main" job (full time) to try to go into business for myself. It was a catastrophic failure and almost two years later I've undone all the progress I made and am in even worse debt than before. I have even less flexibility to try new business ideas or pay for any additional training. I feel like such an idiot.

I have two flexible part time jobs that don't pay much and I've started caretaking for a disabled family member (child) during the day for almost nothing. I'm barely able to pay my bills and am behind on some. I feel like I should just do what was working for me before but the thought of working as much as I did before and not helping my family is even more depressing and demoralizing for me. I mean, I'm financially stressed out, sure but the caretaking gives me at least some modicum of feeling that I'm doing something worthwhile. But it's not something I would want a job in really because doing to same for other people doesn't appeal to me. I'm willing to work with this child because she's MY relative and I love her.

I still go online and look for jobs in my area pretty regularly but I get more depressed every time I do. The jobs I can qualify for pay very low ($10-$14 usually) which to me just seems to add insult to injury. It doesn't seem like a good trade to give up my flexibility, autonomy, and helping my family for a soul-sucking job that would make me just a BIT more than I do now to cover a few more bills. And that if I'm a good worker drone and stick with the job I can become a low-paid middle manager of some sort and even with frugal living take 20 years to get to FIRE.

I fell that if I was more clever I could find a way like some people have to make more money doing less work, like selling a simple product on Amazon or something. Since I haven't been able to figure something like that out, my only other option seems to be going back to being an all-work, no-play drone again and I just can't.

I understand that my current depression is limiting me but I think it's correlated to my situation and not the cause of it, so even if I were to get help or medication, the main details of my life will be the same except I might hate some new drone-jobs a little less than I hate them now.

I just don't really have much hope anymore. I keep thinking that maybe my problem has been that I've tried to do most things myself? I've had coaches before or tried getting help like through the local small business help center and even some professional coaching but nothing much came of it. I wonder if maybe I need a bit more hand holding to really get somewhere before I can truly succeed on my own? I don't want to (and can't afford) to pay any more "coaches" and it seems that anyone who says they can help me make money comes at quite the cost and seems scammy, like most real estate stuff.

I don't know what to do anymore.

I finished grad school in the recession and was in your shoes a few years ago.  Here's proof: one of the first posts I've made on this forum which eerily sounds similar to yours.

For about a year or two after that time, I also explored some business opportunities, mostly in the affiliate marketing space but never saw too much success since I was unwilling to do some of the shadier things..  fyi, I highly recommend you steer clear of affiliate marketing since it seems to boil down to (legally) scamming people online as well as big affiliate programs like Amazon Associates and Google Adsense.

Eventually the crappy low-paid job I was at folded, but thanks to MMM's philosophy, I had a decent amount of money and assets saved up which gave me a year to reflect and to learn new skills and discover what I wanted to do.  I also used that time to learn the latest programming technologies since, ironically, it has always been my childhood dream.  (Why I didn't become a programmer right out of college was a long story but let's just say that my highly technophobic parents vehemently discouraged me from pursuing that path since they had an absolute distaste for computers, the Internet, mobile devices, etc.)

Nowadays, most employers don't care about college degrees per se but the actual skills you bring to the table.  I spent the year I was unemployed furiously learning the latest and most difficult programming technologies I could grasp and applied to jobs everywhere before landing a job that paid six figures - over twice as much as the hedge fund job that only paid $45/k or so per year that I detailed in my previous post.

Note: if you're applying for jobs in Indeed and other online job portals, here's a VERY important tip that'll save you time (and possibly your sanity):

Only apply for the jobs you're qualified for that have been posted recently, in the last 3 days or preferably the last 24 hours!!!

My response and interview rate skyrocketed when I focused only on the jobs posted recently, even when I wasn't sending in cover letters and sent only the same version of my resume!  Of course, if you have time, definitely create cover letters and custom resumes for all of your jobs but it's best to get your resume out there to as many jobs you're interested in as possible, assuming they're only recently posted!

stachestache

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #90 on: December 02, 2018, 12:59:11 AM »
If you're depressed you should start by fixing your life. Cut the crap, cut all your addictions/vices, only keep what's absolutely positive and "boosts" you up. Eat healthy, exercise, take long walks, be frugal, be patient, and give yourself time to think, relax and sleep well. Then you'll see more clearly and you'll maybe figure out a way to work towards some opportunities. Start slow, don't burn yourself out and don't give up.

This is perfect.

babysnowbyrd

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Hi guys,

I really appreciate everything you've contributed from general advice to your own experiences as well as info (both good and bad) on jobs I've mentioned.


I'm still at my security job, which I'm liking more and more. There's been a ton of OT offered lately so for $22.50 I've been happy to sign up. I actually took a bit too much I think because from Dec 28th last year until Middle of last month I literally worked every single day, some days 12 hours instead of my normal 8. Anyway, there's been some changes ans while I can still get some 12 hours shifts (working one today in fact) I at lease get two evenings off a week, which I use to catch up on home chores or more often that not, picking up time with one of my other flexible jobs.

Between all jobs I brought in a little over 5 grand each month this year. I've put about half, sometimes more towards my highest interest CC and I'm going to have that sucker paid off a week from Friday and I'm STOKED!  Seeing that progress has made me all the more excited about keeping up my current progress.

I've been using a debt snowball calculator that I think I got from another poster on these forums (http://www.vertex42.com/Calculators/debt-reduction-calculator.html) if you want to check it out--it's pretty awesome!  Anyway, I initially had some pretty conservative estimates in there so it was looking like I could pay off my debts (at the time in the 55k ballpark) in a little over five years. I've already reduced that with my current payments and my conservative payoff date is currently April 2022. If I keep my current pace though, I'll be able to pay off all my debts--2 cars, student loans, lasik surgery, 4 CCs--by Dec of 2020!

I still don't know what I want to "be when I grow up" but just getting rid of the debts is making me a) feel more hopeful I will find something and b) more able to afford to explore options once I get there. Without all the debt, I can take a pay cut if I need to start in the bottom of a new field and work my way up or have some savings to try out any other business ventures (without going into debt) or pay for any training or equipment I may need.

Truck driving is still an option I'm thinking, but my coworker's father has his own business as a pilot car, and it looks very similar/better? than truck driving. The per mile amount is higher generally, plus per diems sometimes for overnights etc. All you need in my state is a training course (good for several other states as well) a good pilot car with the required signage/lights, some extra gear and a CB radio. So I'm really thinking I might go ahead and try that. Plus with a big enough vehicle, I could outfit it with a bed and stuff so I could save the per diem money for hotels by living out of the vehicle instead.

Real estate is also possibly on the table, and I think with no debt I can probably save up for licensing fairly quickly and not go into any debt for that either.

Thanks again everyone! I probably won't be needing to update this thread again so I can probably let it die off now soon.

pecunia

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #92 on: April 03, 2019, 06:26:10 AM »
Sounds like all of your hard work is going to buy you long term freedom.  Good to free yourself from those credit card guys.  They are bad news.

Just Joe

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #93 on: April 03, 2019, 09:23:58 AM »
GREAT followup. So happy for you.

Milizard

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Re: Feel so hopeless over getting a job that makes good money.
« Reply #94 on: April 04, 2019, 01:27:07 PM »
So glad to see that things are looking up for you.