Author Topic: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)  (Read 25466 times)

DocCyane

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Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« on: July 23, 2015, 07:02:48 AM »
It finally happened. My partner and I were hit up for money by a family member. I feel like I'm part of the club now, and I want to share the story.

My SO has 8 nieces and nephews from her two sisters. All are adults (in age, not maturity) save for the youngest female whom my SO and I on occasion take out for a fun day. She is often in the shadow of her three older brothers, all of whom are special needs (Autism, Downs Syndrome), so we take her to the beach or out shopping alone.

We decided to take her out last weekend to get school clothes and a few other necessities. When we arrived to pick her up, the child's mother -- my SO's oldest sister -- was hitting us up hard to pay for the girl's senior school photos to the tune of $300. We brushed it off.

Now let's pause here. When I had senior high school photos done in 1986, we got one photo and you bought a package for $39.99. Our niece had at least 20 photos to choose from that weren't considered out takes, and her mother was telling us the package they wanted was $300. Not having kids, I don't know if this is the new cost of school photos and if every student is considered a future model deserving of a complete photo session. Or maybe the mother was telling us a big fat lie to get money? Parents will have to fill me in on this.

Anyway, we took the girl out and after a full day of shopping for everything from clothes to shoes to underwear, bras, school supplies and bedding, she was deposited back at home and we were $900 poorer. We don't mind. We don't have kids, so spoiling other people's from time to time is our karmic payment to the universe.

Two days later, meaning last night, my SO and I are sitting on the couch when she gets a text from her sister making another appeal for the $300. I was not amused. After some discussion with my SO -- to make sure we responded as a team -- I replied to the text that we were unable to help and she would need to manage the purchase herself.

I know a lot of you deal with begging family on a regular basis, but this is new for us. Points to ponder:

1) My SO's sister received an inheritance 6 months ago of $30k. I guess it's all gone and she's back to living on welfare, food stamps and other aid. This woman has never worked.

2) I don't believe she wants the money for photos. When she got the inheritance, there were a lot of new iPhones around all the sudden. I have a feeling she can't pay the phone bill, but that's not sympathy inducing like senior photos.

3) Why didn't she pull us aside and ask us to spend less on school clothes to help her with this bill? I guess she was hoping to have her cake and eat it too.

4) The teen girl was sullen the entire day and I had to prompt her to thank my SO. I was a sullen teen as well, so I get it, but she usually appreciates us. I guess the novelty has worn off. We're just the rich aunties.

In short, I'm left feeling like a sucker for being kind to this family. Obviously I don't want to take it out on the teen who just wanted school clothes, but we appear to have become a marked target. My SO says that's the way it has always been with her family. No one contacts her unless they need money. It just seems a little sad.

Anyway, that's my tale. There's no problem to solve, but I'd love your commentary on family members and their attempts at the money grab.

matchewed

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 07:10:02 AM »
No offense but you have already proven yourself as a source of cash when you're spending nearly $1k on a day out for shopping.

You have every right to spend your money as you see fit. But looking from the outside, if you're willing to spend $900 on one side it is entirely reasonable for someone hard up seeing that and asking for $300 for the other side of it.

TBH it'd probable be better to stop being a source of money resource for your family at all.

DocCyane

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 07:12:33 AM »
No offense but you have already proven yourself as a source of cash when you're spending nearly $1k on a day out for shopping.

You have every right to spend your money as you see fit. But looking from the outside, if you're willing to spend $900 on one side it is entirely reasonable for someone hard up seeing that and asking for $300 for the other side of it.

TBH it'd probable be better to stop being a source of money resource for your family at all.

No offense taken and I agree that we need to stop supporting this family, even with occasional days out for the teen girl. But how sad, eh?

matchewed

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 07:21:09 AM »
No offense but you have already proven yourself as a source of cash when you're spending nearly $1k on a day out for shopping.

You have every right to spend your money as you see fit. But looking from the outside, if you're willing to spend $900 on one side it is entirely reasonable for someone hard up seeing that and asking for $300 for the other side of it.

TBH it'd probable be better to stop being a source of money resource for your family at all.

No offense taken and I agree that we need to stop supporting this family, even with occasional days out for the teen girl. But how sad, eh?

Spending money and living lifestyles which can allow you to save money are just skills. Someone being shitty with their money seems no sadder to me than someone unable to cook. I hope for a day when talking about money is as transparent as it is on this forum. Maybe then more people can start the learning process.

Tabaxus

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2015, 07:23:50 AM »
$900 may, I think, be the grand total that I ever spent on clothes (or that was spent on my clothes) until I needed to start buying suits for work.  Jeez.

ash7962

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2015, 07:36:08 AM »
It sucks that you've been put in this situation, but I mostly feel sorry for the girl.  Not saying the issues with family asking for money is a small one, but from your post and the fact that you're pursuing FIRE, I'm betting you'll be able to handle it without any advice from me. 

I feel bad for the girl because she's growing up in a family where her mother is terrible with money.  That means she's learning to be bad with money, she's probably exposed to the stress of her mom being out of money all the time, and she probably even knows that she's being used by her mom to hit relatives up for money.  How would you feel if you were being used to swindle someone who has been nothing but nice to you?  Probably not a great feeling, especially since she's probably not even getting those senior pictures like all her friends.  I also wonder if your good deed of buying her new clothes/items puts stress on her relationship with her mother or maybe makes her feel guilty.  She's getting all these nice new things when look at her poor old mother who can't even pay the phone bill.  Her mom could even be the one pointing it out making her feel guilty (consciously or subconsciously).  Of course I'm totally speculating on all this since I don't really know the situation, but I just wanted to put it out there for you to think about.  You'll know best if any of this has any bearing on your situation, but I could easily see how any of this would make a teen sullen.  Best of luck to you and your SO.

FarmerPete

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2015, 07:39:51 AM »
Wow.  Even paying $50 an item (which is WAY TOO MUCH), that's 18 items of clothes.  Did they just have a fire where she lost her entire wardrobe?

druth

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 07:41:52 AM »
No offense taken and I agree that we need to stop supporting this family, even with occasional days out for the teen girl. But how sad, eh?

You do need to stop financially supporting this family, but the days out with the teen are not a problem.  $900 spent in one day with her is the problem.  You can still take her to do something, going to a movie or dinner that is small and not something her mother should be paying for.  Right now her mom is seeing that you can be guilted into buying things that mom should be buying though.

FarmerPete

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2015, 07:42:23 AM »
Oh, and $300 for senior pictures is expensive, but it's certainly in the realm of possibilities.

http://www.howmuchisit.org/senior-pictures-cost/

DocCyane

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 07:42:31 AM »
$900 does seem like an awful lot of money for clothes.  What stores were you shopping at? That's seems about 3X too high for "school clothes and necessities"

If you spend money like you're Daddy Warbucks, don't be surprised if the sullen teen believes that you're Daddy Warbucks and takes you for granted.

We went to an outlet mall and bought brands like Converse, Hollister... Um, bras and undies from Sears. Shorts at Target as well as bedding, a mirror, makeup...  Forever  21 for shirts. Staples for school supplies. That's all I can remember. It was a blur.

This is in Southern California. Prices are probably skewed accordingly.


DocCyane

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2015, 07:48:53 AM »
It sucks that you've been put in this situation, but I mostly feel sorry for the girl.  Not saying the issues with family asking for money is a small one, but from your post and the fact that you're pursuing FIRE, I'm betting you'll be able to handle it without any advice from me. 

I feel bad for the girl because she's growing up in a family where her mother is terrible with money.  That means she's learning to be bad with money, she's probably exposed to the stress of her mom being out of money all the time, and she probably even knows that she's being used by her mom to hit relatives up for money.  How would you feel if you were being used to swindle someone who has been nothing but nice to you?  Probably not a great feeling, especially since she's probably not even getting those senior pictures like all her friends.  I also wonder if your good deed of buying her new clothes/items puts stress on her relationship with her mother or maybe makes her feel guilty.  She's getting all these nice new things when look at her poor old mother who can't even pay the phone bill.  Her mom could even be the one pointing it out making her feel guilty (consciously or subconsciously).  Of course I'm totally speculating on all this since I don't really know the situation, but I just wanted to put it out there for you to think about.  You'll know best if any of this has any bearing on your situation, but I could easily see how any of this would make a teen sullen.  Best of luck to you and your SO.

Wow, great response, Ash. I didn't really think about the jealousy of the mom and the guilt. "Good deeds" are really complicated. You think you're doing a nice thing for a teen gal who has so little, but there are so many issues. Thanks for taking the time to write.


Blonde Lawyer

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2015, 07:58:43 AM »
Back in high school, before I was mustachian, I made fun of a friend whose brother was taking his senior portrait with a regular old camera while the rest of us were paying the pros.  Looking back at my old year books, his picture looks the best out of all of ours. 

KCM5

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2015, 08:00:08 AM »
It sucks that you've been put in this situation, but I mostly feel sorry for the girl.  Not saying the issues with family asking for money is a small one, but from your post and the fact that you're pursuing FIRE, I'm betting you'll be able to handle it without any advice from me. 

I feel bad for the girl because she's growing up in a family where her mother is terrible with money.  That means she's learning to be bad with money, she's probably exposed to the stress of her mom being out of money all the time, and she probably even knows that she's being used by her mom to hit relatives up for money.  How would you feel if you were being used to swindle someone who has been nothing but nice to you?  Probably not a great feeling, especially since she's probably not even getting those senior pictures like all her friends.  I also wonder if your good deed of buying her new clothes/items puts stress on her relationship with her mother or maybe makes her feel guilty.  She's getting all these nice new things when look at her poor old mother who can't even pay the phone bill.  Her mom could even be the one pointing it out making her feel guilty (consciously or subconsciously).  Of course I'm totally speculating on all this since I don't really know the situation, but I just wanted to put it out there for you to think about.  You'll know best if any of this has any bearing on your situation, but I could easily see how any of this would make a teen sullen.  Best of luck to you and your SO.

All of this.

Also, you could consider taking the girl thrifting next time. New things are nice, but finding used gems is fun, too (and cheaper!). It's a great thing to know that the next time your wear a hole in your pants you can hop down to the nearest used clothing store and find a suitable replacement for $4!

DocCyane

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2015, 08:01:33 AM »
I think this is a great opportunity to teach this girl about frugality, financial literacy, mindful spending and conscious consumerism. Make sure you don't do it in a way that could make her feel morally superior to her mother, who's obviously been given a bad lot in life (not saying she shouldn't be doing things differently, just saying it must be tough being a single mom to multiple disabled children), but this seems like a good age to help her make different decisions. She may be a sullen teen and it may not feel like it's sinking in, but I wonder if it could be helpful to her later in life...

Thanks for writing, AnnaJane. We have tried to do what we can, but this girl has been classified as learning disabled as well.

Now I don't think for a moment there's anything wrong with this child other than her mom wanted her to be classified as such in order to qualify for special money and support. The kid seems bright and of average intelligence. She has, however, been in an absolutely stunted environment for 17 years. TV on all the time. Little travel. No books or libraries. Etc.

When asked about what she's going to do after high school, the teen says she wants to be an actress. She's never been in a play or taken a class, but she thinks this is a viable career path.

When asked about college, she thinks she can go to the local junior college despite being in learning disabled level classes her whole life. She has no clue how to be a college student, even in that low-demand environment.

So, we don't really know how else to help. I try to ask questions, but my SO says that's pressuring the teen unnecessarily. Everyone seems to be colluding on this lie that the kid is limited. Teaching her anything about finance is probably not feasible. Sad.



prudence

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2015, 08:39:15 AM »
Sorry you are dealing with this, it takes the fun right out of gift giving..

Senior pictures has become another occasion to overspend on your offspring, sanctioned by the schools. My daughter's (public) high school hired a photographer and every child had a photo shoot which resulted in a whole bunch of proofs for her to choose from. I think the cheapest package you could purchase was over $200 and for maybe $230 you could get some wallets in addition to the 8x10 people usually want. It was a total rip off.  You could even hire the photographer for half a day and take you to several locations for your photo shoot, for an additional couple hundred dollars.. Madness.

Basenji

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2015, 08:46:46 AM »
I think this is a great opportunity to teach this girl about frugality, financial literacy, mindful spending and conscious consumerism. Make sure you don't do it in a way that could make her feel morally superior to her mother, who's obviously been given a bad lot in life (not saying she shouldn't be doing things differently, just saying it must be tough being a single mom to multiple disabled children), but this seems like a good age to help her make different decisions. She may be a sullen teen and it may not feel like it's sinking in, but I wonder if it could be helpful to her later in life...

I agree. What about setting up an account you control and have her learn about finances? I was a smart kid but in my family money talk was verboten. I wish someone had walked me through saving, making choices, investments, etc. I think there were threads here on great strategies for teaching this stuff. If she needed clothes, sure, but maybe a long-term project with her.
School photos are silly, the poses, the backgrounds. I don't get it. Start with the $300 in an account with various MMM lessons in budgeting, investing, and getting value for money. She chooses with guidance how to manage it. Can add to it with job money which you partially match. Then she gets the money on her 21st birthday.

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2015, 08:52:43 AM »
We used to be the generous childless couple in our family. We paid for a lot of things that our family members "needed." It seemed like the more we gave, the less appreciative people were. Not that it stopped them from continually asking for money and saying things like, "You can afford to help, right?"

The Great Recession made a convenient scapegoat for us. We just stopped giving money or generous gifts. We talked a lot about how we'd been "hit hard" by the recession. And, as the economy recovered, we never spoke about recovering. In fact, my husband occasionally implies to family members that I have to work so that we can get by (not true). We still had to say no to a couple of requests, but eventually they stopped.

All in all, our family seems to like us better now that we given them the impression that we're not well off. They are much happier to think that we can't give them money than when they thought we could give them money, did give them money, but were holding back.

barbaz

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2015, 09:01:51 AM »
Now I don't think for a moment there's anything wrong with this child other than her mom wanted her to be classified as such in order to qualify for special money and support. The kid seems bright and of average intelligence. She has, however, been in an absolutely stunted environment for 17 years. TV on all the time. Little travel. No books or libraries. Etc.
Just a thought: have you considered taking her on a short vacation? First, its generally better to spend money on experiences than on things (also, it's not so obvious how much you spent). Second, you can use that time to show her the virtues of non-electronic pastime activities or explain the world to her (be it about science, careers, or finance). 17 might be a bit late for that, though.

Basenji

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2015, 09:24:17 AM »
Now I don't think for a moment there's anything wrong with this child other than her mom wanted her to be classified as such in order to qualify for special money and support. The kid seems bright and of average intelligence. She has, however, been in an absolutely stunted environment for 17 years. TV on all the time. Little travel. No books or libraries. Etc.
Just a thought: have you considered taking her on a short vacation? First, its generally better to spend money on experiences than on things (also, it's not so obvious how much you spent). Second, you can use that time to show her the virtues of non-electronic pastime activities or explain the world to her (be it about science, careers, or finance). 17 might be a bit late for that, though.

LOL at 17 being too late.  The older I get, the more I realize that when I was 17, I was far from fully formed.  Habits can be changed. Sometimes people just need a map, and they need to see that the 4 minute mile is possible.  Didn't this forum coin the phrase, "Mustachian 180"?? :)

I'm 46 and still learning this stuff...

sisto

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2015, 09:32:07 AM »
I can relate to this 100%. We have done similar shopping trips for our Nephews. I make it a teaching opportunity. I teach them how to buy more for less with bargain shopping, but always try to buy one special item that they really want. We've gotten to the point now where we are tired of always being expected to do more. We're like you and want to do things on our own terms and try to do what we can, but have had to pull back. We just can't stand to see the kid's parents blowing money that they don't have and not planning for the future. We have decided to instead put away money for the kids. In our trust they will get money at 25, since we don't think any of them will be ready before that and even that is probably too soon. All I can say is try to teach them when you can. Sometimes they will surprise you as adults when you see them practicing things you taught them. Good Luck!

PS-I suspect the pictures really do cost that much. Our youngest is 21 and I recall his being just a bit less than that. We did not buy them and did our own instead. I too live in CA.

Bob W

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2015, 09:43:51 AM »
$300 is pretty typical for the Senior picture scam.     My suggestion if these pictures are so important to them that they save up $10 a month for the next 30 months.  The pictures are mostly for looking at in the future and morning ones lost youth anyhow.

Now for the important question-   obviously this family is a typical dumbass welfare family which appears to be 75% of the US population.

Since this kid is a senior what are her plans?   Have you given suggestions?  Is there a push on your part to remove her from the destitute family mentality and help her get a life?  That would be my focus.   Otherwise in 5 years instead of taking her out for dinner for completing her RN degree you'll be turning her down for $300 for formula to feed her 3rd baby by a 3rd man. 

Stupid can be cured if one pushes the right way.   

KBecks2

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2015, 09:54:56 AM »
I think this is a great opportunity to teach this girl about frugality, financial literacy, mindful spending and conscious consumerism. Make sure you don't do it in a way that could make her feel morally superior to her mother, who's obviously been given a bad lot in life (not saying she shouldn't be doing things differently, just saying it must be tough being a single mom to multiple disabled children), but this seems like a good age to help her make different decisions. She may be a sullen teen and it may not feel like it's sinking in, but I wonder if it could be helpful to her later in life...

Thanks for writing, AnnaJane. We have tried to do what we can, but this girl has been classified as learning disabled as well.

Now I don't think for a moment there's anything wrong with this child other than her mom wanted her to be classified as such in order to qualify for special money and support. The kid seems bright and of average intelligence. She has, however, been in an absolutely stunted environment for 17 years. TV on all the time. Little travel. No books or libraries. Etc.

When asked about what she's going to do after high school, the teen says she wants to be an actress. She's never been in a play or taken a class, but she thinks this is a viable career path.

When asked about college, she thinks she can go to the local junior college despite being in learning disabled level classes her whole life. She has no clue how to be a college student, even in that low-demand environment.

So, we don't really know how else to help. I try to ask questions, but my SO says that's pressuring the teen unnecessarily. Everyone seems to be colluding on this lie that the kid is limited. Teaching her anything about finance is probably not feasible. Sad.

OMG, that is so sad!!!!!!  So sad!   

I am so sorry for what you are going through with her mom.  Some random thoughts:

1.  Do you know for sure the stuff you buy is being kept by the girl and not returned to the stores for cash?  (It may depend on your payment type, who keeps receipts and stuff.)

2.  $900 is a lot, but school supplies can cost quite a bit, shoes, bedding etc. 

3.  Does the girl have enough life skills to care for herself?  Does she know how to cook, how do do her own laundry, how to get even a minimum level job somewhere?   Her mom is using her for a check, it's disgusting!!!!  Can the girl do basic math? Does she read?  She is going to need to learn how to LIVE -- does she have friends?  And in SoCal?  OMG.  How will she survive and THRIVE in adulthood?  She has her whole life ahead of her!!!    If you could mentor her a little bit, it's like saving a life in my mind.  Get that girl some books!!!

Give this girl some love and encouragement.  She needs to know that she is capable, that she CAN achieve things!  And it's OK to try!! OMG.

Best wishes.  I will keep your niece in my thoughts and prayers.

Lastly,  take some photos of her with your iPhone or whatever, and have some fun making the photos as a little project you do together.  At least you know she will have something nice for that.  If you can increase your influence on her that is good.  I would try to keep access to her, but I know, you don't want to get wrapped up in dysfunction and enabling = hurting someone you love.  Someone needs to teach her!!!  She will fail in life so badly without help!!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 10:00:33 AM by KBecks2 »

DocCyane

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2015, 10:08:42 AM »
Now I don't think for a moment there's anything wrong with this child other than her mom wanted her to be classified as such in order to qualify for special money and support. The kid seems bright and of average intelligence. She has, however, been in an absolutely stunted environment for 17 years. TV on all the time. Little travel. No books or libraries. Etc.
Just a thought: have you considered taking her on a short vacation? First, its generally better to spend money on experiences than on things (also, it's not so obvious how much you spent). Second, you can use that time to show her the virtues of non-electronic pastime activities or explain the world to her (be it about science, careers, or finance). 17 might be a bit late for that, though.

I don't want to take on the expense and responsibility of bringing a minor child on a vacation. That's way more money, risk, and attention than I can give, and I'm not looking to undo 17 years of poor upbringing. I don't want that level of involvement. It would only mean more family mooching, lack of appreciation and general resentment.

When we finished a day of shopping, we barely got a thank you and the teen complained afterwards that we "walked too fast." In short, this is not a high tempo kid used to hiking, exploring, learning, etc. Taking her away from television and the Internet is probably a bad idea. She doesn't know food beyond something in a wrapper with a logo and a cartoon character. She ordered filet mignon when we went out to eat (most expensive thing on the menu!), but then complained about having to cut it herself.

She's not learning disabled, but she is quite stunted.




barbaz

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2015, 10:32:54 AM »
Just a thought: have you considered taking her on a short vacation?
I don't want to take on the expense and responsibility of bringing a minor child on a vacation. That's way more money, risk, and attention than I can give, and I'm not looking to undo 17 years of poor upbringing. I don't want that level of involvement. It would only mean more family mooching, lack of appreciation and general resentment.
I totally get that. It also depends a lot on the relation if a vacation might be a good idea. I just wanted to point out that in terms of appreciation, vacations probably have a better ROI. At least I, personally, remember much more of the vacations that I had with relatives than the stuff they bought me.

Quote
but then complained about having to cut it herself.
howisthisidonteven....

17 might be a bit late for that, though.
LOL at 17 being too late.  The older I get, the more I realize that when I was 17, I was far from fully formed.  Habits can be changed. Sometimes people just need a map, and they need to see that the 4 minute mile is possible.  Didn't this forum coin the phrase, "Mustachian 180"?? :)
17 isn't too old to learn, but it's likely too old to be told. With 17, you "know" "everything", so lectures on frugality might be pointless.

Bajadoc

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2015, 10:42:42 AM »
I mean this in a respectful helpful way, so please take it that way. You are way too nice. You are enabling and may be doing more harm than good to that family in the long run. Focus your attention on trying to get the bum mom some skills and a job. Start the tough love and stop the money train.

Bajadoc

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2015, 10:49:19 AM »
$300 is pretty typical for the Senior picture scam.     My suggestion if these pictures are so important to them that they save up $10 a month for the next 30 months.  The pictures are mostly for looking at in the future and morning ones lost youth anyhow.

Now for the important question-   obviously this family is a typical dumbass welfare family which appears to be 75% of the US population.

Since this kid is a senior what are her plans?   Have you given suggestions?  Is there a push on your part to remove her from the destitute family mentality and help her get a life?  That would be my focus.   Otherwise in 5 years instead of taking her out for dinner for completing her RN degree you'll be turning her down for $300 for formula to feed her 3rd baby by a 3rd man. 

Stupid can be cured if one pushes the right way.   

Well said Sir.

GizmoTX

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2015, 11:52:09 AM »
We have tried to do what we can, but this girl has been classified as learning disabled as well.

Now I don't think for a moment there's anything wrong with this child other than her mom wanted her to be classified as such in order to qualify for special money and support. The kid seems bright and of average intelligence. She has, however, been in an absolutely stunted environment for 17 years. TV on all the time. Little travel. No books or libraries. Etc.

When asked about what she's going to do after high school, the teen says she wants to be an actress. She's never been in a play or taken a class, but she thinks this is a viable career path.

When asked about college, she thinks she can go to the local junior college despite being in learning disabled level classes her whole life. She has no clue how to be a college student, even in that low-demand environment.

So, we don't really know how else to help. I try to ask questions, but my SO says that's pressuring the teen unnecessarily. Everyone seems to be colluding on this lie that the kid is limited. Teaching her anything about finance is probably not feasible. Sad.

It seems a bit early for the senior photo bill -- I agree that this money will likely be diverted somewhere else.

The reality is that she isn't a child, although it certainly sounds as if she's been raised to forever be dependent. Pressure? Life is one big pressure. Soon she will need a JOB. Some community colleges offer trade skills. The academic path sounds like a disaster & waste of time.

Does she have any computer skills? Could she gain some financial knowledge by learning a program like YNAB?

DocCyane

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2015, 12:09:14 PM »

Thanks for writing, AnnaJane. We have tried to do what we can, but this girl has been classified as learning disabled as well.

Now I don't think for a moment there's anything wrong with this child other than her mom wanted her to be classified as such in order to qualify for special money and support. The kid seems bright and of average intelligence. She has, however, been in an absolutely stunted environment for 17 years. TV on all the time. Little travel. No books or libraries. Etc.

When asked about what she's going to do after high school, the teen says she wants to be an actress. She's never been in a play or taken a class, but she thinks this is a viable career path.

When asked about college, she thinks she can go to the local junior college despite being in learning disabled level classes her whole life. She has no clue how to be a college student, even in that low-demand environment.

So, we don't really know how else to help. I try to ask questions, but my SO says that's pressuring the teen unnecessarily. Everyone seems to be colluding on this lie that the kid is limited. Teaching her anything about finance is probably not feasible. Sad.

OMG, that is so sad!!!!!!  So sad!   

I am so sorry for what you are going through with her mom.  Some random thoughts:

1.  Do you know for sure the stuff you buy is being kept by the girl and not returned to the stores for cash?  (It may depend on your payment type, who keeps receipts and stuff.)

2.  $900 is a lot, but school supplies can cost quite a bit, shoes, bedding etc. 

3.  Does the girl have enough life skills to care for herself?  Does she know how to cook, how do do her own laundry, how to get even a minimum level job somewhere?   Her mom is using her for a check, it's disgusting!!!!  Can the girl do basic math? Does she read?  She is going to need to learn how to LIVE -- does she have friends?  And in SoCal?  OMG.  How will she survive and THRIVE in adulthood?  She has her whole life ahead of her!!!    If you could mentor her a little bit, it's like saving a life in my mind.  Get that girl some books!!!

Give this girl some love and encouragement.  She needs to know that she is capable, that she CAN achieve things!  And it's OK to try!! OMG.

Best wishes.  I will keep your niece in my thoughts and prayers.

Lastly,  take some photos of her with your iPhone or whatever, and have some fun making the photos as a little project you do together.  At least you know she will have something nice for that.  If you can increase your influence on her that is good.  I would try to keep access to her, but I know, you don't want to get wrapped up in dysfunction and enabling = hurting someone you love.  Someone needs to teach her!!!  She will fail in life so badly without help!!

1) No, we don't know if the mother is letting her keep what we buy her. We put everything on credit card (for the cash back) so I would assume the store would not give the mother cash if she tried to return it.

3) I would say no, the girl does not have sufficient life skills to care for herself. I doubt she could cook a meal, or even shop for one. She might be able to figure out laundry. And as far as a job, I don't see her tolerating the demands of even the most basic job. She does not drive, though she's old enough.

She can read sufficiently well enough. We have asked her to read things to us when we "forget our glasses." Math... Probably not.

I have tried to talk to the teen about the fact that she won't be living as a child for much longer. Her mom won't live forever. She has to step up and be something, but I don't think it's sinking in.


KBecks2

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2015, 12:18:13 PM »
I mean this in a respectful helpful way, so please take it that way. You are way too nice. You are enabling and may be doing more harm than good to that family in the long run. Focus your attention on trying to get the bum mom some skills and a job. Start the tough love and stop the money train.

I agree here.  It's tough.  This girl is being taught to mooch off you.  That is what she is being groomed for, it seems.  Does the mom plan to keep this girl at home her entire life to get checks for caring for her?  (I personally think that is child abuse if she is capable of living independently and having a real life.)  Your partner's sister has fallen into a very bad situation of just taking and acting like a victim.  If this girl has a chance, she should have a chance to care for herself.  But how does she launch into her own life in a HCOL area?  She can't be sent off to drown in student loan debt, piling onto the problem, she is going to need a place to live and a place to work.  She should have th experience of having a job, even an easy job to have some sort of pride and success.  Is she capable of driving?  Special Olympics if she is truly disabled?  What is out there for borderline kids?  I don't know…

Sorry, I was posting at the same time as you were.  So she has real challenges.  I am so sorry for this situation, there should be resources to help her grow and have some pride and success, even if it is less than a fully able person her age.   I am not familiar with this area but I hope that there are some better options available for your niece's future. It's great that you are taking an interest in her.  Beware of just throwing money at her, because it does nothing in terms of real help.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 12:23:36 PM by KBecks2 »

NumberCruncher

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2015, 01:18:15 PM »
Oh, and $300 for senior pictures is expensive, but it's certainly in the realm of possibilities.

http://www.howmuchisit.org/senior-pictures-cost/

That reminds me, why do we still do school pictures, when digital cameras are relatively cheap and abundant? I understand school pictures being a big deal when you had to develop film, but I have approximately 17,000 photographs of my three month old.


My mom took my senior portraits with a digital camera (8 years ago) - got a ton of compliments  :)   For the other three years of high school the portraits were pretty much mandatory (for yearbook purposes), but you didn't have to buy any prints.


OP - you could offer to take the senior portraits instead of paying for a professional if you really wanted. Or enlist the help of some other family member. Even if you don't know what you're doing, you can just take a little longer and try a bunch of poses - bound to get something that works well, even better than some of the awkward-yet-oddly-popular poses like the "hands on face looking thoughtful" or the "look I'm holding something" that professionals will often employ.

druth

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2015, 01:39:42 PM »
My mom took my senior portraits with a digital camera (8 years ago) - got a ton of compliments  :)   

Same here, after I posted them some friends actually asked if my mom (not a pro at all) could do theirs also.  Really very little training is needed to do good enough.  That said my friends that did go to pros spent easily $300.

I would definitely recommend taking her pictures as something you could do with her.  We went to the art museum and a flower garden for mine.

mm1970

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2015, 01:45:21 PM »
I frankly have NO idea what I paid for senior pictures in 1988, but I'm guessing it's not too far from what you paid in 1986.

However, these days - I often see more pictures on FB.  I have a couple of friends who are photographers (one pro, one amateur) who take senior photos.  So these are DIFFERENT from the school photos you get, with many more choices.  The school photos are still $39.99.  That's what I paid for my 9 year old anyway.

That said, you are officially the rich aunties.

Teens are sullen, I get that. I understand your desire to connect with her, considering her situation with a mother who has never worked and special needs older brothers.  So I have sympathy for the teen and for the whole family really - cannot imagine what it's like dealing with Downs and other things.

However, a bad attitude would not go very far with me and that shopping trip would not be repeated.

As far as the $300, you handled that correctly.  If she presses, maybe suggest she sell an I-phone.

G-dog

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2015, 02:57:33 PM »
no good deed goes unpunished, eh? Is your partner in agreement regarding reducing financial support?

Sad scenario. One of my nieces is mentally handicapped, and there are many programs and resources that have helped by keeping her in programs for 40 years post-high school. I think these are public programs, but may be private with some public subsidy. My niece's handicap is moderate to severe, but she rides public transit to and from work on her own (she gets paid a pittance in the program), votes regularly in all elections, and cooks simple meals for herself (her parents rule was no using the stove without supervision - mostly in case she would forget to turn everything off).

Do you have any idea if any such system will apply for your niece? There could be vocational training programs, etc. she may be able to access. But unlike my niece, it doesn't sound like this girl has any motivation.

I understand your (plural) desire to help, but with limits - seems you've defined a boundary. The trick is figuring out what, if anything, you are willing to do, and whether there will be strings attached. But I recommend avoiding the strings attached approach - it rarely works and is only even more frustration.

Good luck - sadly I have no good answers for you, but it is OK for you both to stop your financial support of this family without guilt, or decide on a new lower level or different support.


CommonCents

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2015, 03:16:12 PM »
I think this is a sad situation.  I agree that you are rich aunties, no doubt.  The issue is them expecting money from you now.  I'd suggest telling them that that the last "back to school" spree you'll be taking the niece on now as next year she'll be an adult.  (Next year, you could offer to take her shopping at a thrift shop with her birthday/holiday money from you.)  While they might not plan for it, at least you know you tried to communicate in advance that you'd cut off the gravy train.  Although it might be tempting to tell them it's in part because of the girl's unreceptive and unthankful demeanor, I would avoid it because they might get mad at her (and really, you need tell no reason at all).

In regards to being mad she didn't suggest that you cut back on shopping to pay for the photos - she did in a way.  She asked you for the photos before you left.  You choose not to pay for it, but didn't communicate an immediate and clear no such that she might think to propose less shopping.  (And omg, $900 is not what I'd expect for shopping!  No wonder she didn't think to ask you to spend $600 instead of $900.  She may have expected you to spend $300 on necessities, which would need to be bought and even she might agree shouldn't be skipped for photos.  I think my BIG yearly shopping sprees where I picked up most of my clothes for the year when I was in college and doing it once, were $200-300.  Even accounting for inflation of 15 years doesn't get you to $900.  That's crazy excessive.)

I'd suggest treating it like Big Brothers/Sisters going forward.  Give her the gift of time, not money.  Make a practice of modeling good behavior (e.g. bring sandwiches and take her to the park/beach).

humbleMouse

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2015, 03:19:24 PM »
This is your fault for spending $900 on the kid.  That's a ridiculous amount of money.  I would hit you up for $300 if you blow $900 like it's nothing. 

nancyjnelson

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2015, 03:42:36 PM »
Prices for senior pictures can be astronomical ...but it might depend on where you live.  I retired two years ago (yay!!) after 25 years with the federal government, and moved from the northern Virginia area to a small factory town in Wisconsin (closer to family, cheaper to live, Japanese classes in the high school for my remaining at-home child).  One would think that senior pictures in northern Virginia - one of the more expensive places to live in the U.S. - would be more expensive than in a factory town in Wisconsin.  You would be wrong.  At my daughter's old high school in Arlington, all the female seniors had normal "head-shot" photos in the yearbook, wearing black velvet and pearls (not real, and not their own) - having no sons, I don't remember what the boys did.  The photos cost well under $70, but could be more if you ordered a lot.  Here in factory-town Wisconsin, the majority of students book a session at a photo studio.  My daughter graduates this year so I looked into it.  The sessions begin at $175, make-up/airbrushing $75.00, the digital images go from $300 to $650 (the website points out that all of their clients took some sort of digital image option, the most expensive being the most popular), with the prints starting at $40 each.  I thought that those prices had to be an outlier, so I looked into other studios - the prices were pretty comparable.  It made me feel sick - the majority of households in this town have a lower-than-average income.  My kid, FWIW, is having her photos taken by a friend's mother who is handy with a camera.

susaninsd

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2015, 03:52:31 PM »
I wouldn't pay $300 for the photos.  They probably take them early to be included in the yearbook, but ALL photographers keep them archived for later purchase.  If she still wants them at graduation, maybe she can use her grad money to buy them. 

My daughter opted not to purchase hers because she didn't like the unnatural poses they put her in.  Her grad pix are of her + friends in caps and gowns ... great memories!

DocCyane

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM »
This is your fault for spending $900 on the kid.  That's a ridiculous amount of money.  I would hit you up for $300 if you blow $900 like it's nothing.

We didn't "blow $900 like it's nothing." We helped out a teen family member with clothes, bedding, shoes, makeup, and school supplies. Don't be a dick.

Zamboni

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2015, 08:42:24 PM »
I think you are nice aunties.

When asked about what she's going to do after high school, the teen says she wants to be an actress. She's never been in a play or taken a class, but she thinks this is a viable career path.

Unfortunately my own auntie, who works in child welfare services, sees this kind of thing all of the time. She works mostly with neglect cases. The most common future profession that teens in child neglect situations cite is pop singer. So she keeps having this conversation over and over:
Her: Oh that's wonderful that you like to sing! Do you take chorus class at school? Are you in the marching band?
Teen: No.
Her: How about glee club at school? Or do you sing in the church choir?
Teen: No.
Her: Ah, okay, well I'm sure you have a lovely voice.

Sad.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2015, 08:44:24 PM »
all of whom are special needs (Autism, Downs Syndrome)

They have special needs. Not are.

CommonCents

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2015, 09:43:32 PM »
This is your fault for spending $900 on the kid.  That's a ridiculous amount of money.  I would hit you up for $300 if you blow $900 like it's nothing.

We didn't "blow $900 like it's nothing." We helped out a teen family member with clothes, bedding, shoes, makeup, and school supplies. Don't be a dick.

Makeup is most definitely not a necessity.
I'm also questioning why you'd get her bedding if she might be leaving the family home when she's 18.  (I'd wait till I knew what she was doing post-high school for that purchase.)
Clothes, shoes, school supplies sure - but still I don't see $900 there.

The first step to resolving this problem is acknowledging the hand you had in making it.  You spent lavishly, and I'm saying this with a family income of $230k!  No wonder they think $300 might not matter.  Plus nothing ventured nothing gained.

okits

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2015, 10:20:34 PM »
The $900 shocked me, too.  Even if they were all necessities, that is A LOT of money.  To them, you seem like a bottomless well.

Cpa Cat's post was great.  Your help seems to breed entitlement and resentment, not help your family relationships or encourage improving circumstances (or even gratitude.)

Someone on the forums (a social worker?  Therapist?) said her rule is she doesn't work harder for a patient/client than the patient is working for him/herself.  Your wanting to help the daughter is commendable. But it's not going to bear any fruit unless she wants to help herself.

You are right, it is a sad situation.

Edit: clarity
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 10:25:49 PM by okits »

Mr Dorothy Dollar

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2015, 10:23:56 PM »
I think there is a bunch going on here with the family dynamics that really cannot be fully flushed out on public forums. Me and my husband are treated differently than our siblings too. My brother and his wife who spends more gets more parental financial socialism. When we do not go crazy with Christmas gifts we are seen as misers, yet my husband's brother spends $5/person on Christmas.

Really the solution to all this you already know and have implemented throughout your life. Stop caring what others think. Being LGBT you have no doubt already largely dealt with this. Family is the final frontier. Give money how you see fit. You may be the rich aunties, but that is really not too bad.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2015, 07:03:14 AM »
I think this is a great opportunity to teach this girl about frugality, financial literacy, mindful spending and conscious consumerism. Make sure you don't do it in a way that could make her feel morally superior to her mother, who's obviously been given a bad lot in life (not saying she shouldn't be doing things differently, just saying it must be tough being a single mom to multiple disabled children), but this seems like a good age to help her make different decisions. She may be a sullen teen and it may not feel like it's sinking in, but I wonder if it could be helpful to her later in life...




1+

As a teen I could do the silent treatment if I felt I were being dissed. But to not say thank you? Way over the top!

You should send in your Mother Teresa Replacement application now.

I'd have taken the girl aside and said, "What gives? Are you not happy we're buying all this crap for you? Are we putting a crimp in your style or your day?"

But then I get ticked off when people can't take the time for common courtesy.

As for the mom....sorry about the disabled kids. If she's the sole caretaker I can see her not working. But senior photos (although I agree: why are they so dang much?) are more important than having the latest iPhone. To me...pretty much everything is. And if she is on welfare and the food for kids program and Section 8 or whatever...she should be fine if she's even semi-frugal.

My text back would have been: "I'm sorry, but I just spent a thousand dollars on your daughter (lunch/gas/parking fees), because I love her. You already pressured me to give you this additional money, and I declined. Let me make my position clear: I am not a bank. It's not like her senior photos weren't something anticipated: you knew they were coming. I feel you should have saved for them accordingly. Perhaps you can sell you iPhone on craigslist and get a pay as you go from WalMart?"

But, I'm a bitch so take that all with a grain of salt.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2015, 07:40:23 AM »
I know this doesn't help the OP (to whom my thought is: they've marked you as a cash source because you've let them. SAY NO and stop spending extravagantly on them.)

But I looked up the cost of the "go to" guy that people liked to get senior pictures from at my high school.
The 1.5 hour session is $300 and requires a minimum purchase of $560 prints purchase (Popular "packages" listing range from $1500 to $5000).  Retouching services begin at $150 (and that isn't the retouching that includes making your boobs bigger; that is much more expensive).  Makeup artist $75.


I remember not getting any portraits done because I felt bad about how much money my parents had just spent on a surgery for me, so I skipped the photographer.  In hindsight- the guy was crazy sketchy; yeah, he let you take photos standing on top of his corvette; but he also managed to do topless photos of at least half the girls.  Why did parents allow that?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 09:03:30 AM by iowajes »

mskyle

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2015, 08:26:26 AM »
IMO, you need to distance yourself from your family. You are openly contemptuous of them, you begrudge them the help you're giving them, and it sounds like they think the worst of you even when you do do nice things for them. What are you getting out of this relationship? Is it worth it?

mancityfan

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2015, 08:56:49 AM »
ahhh, the financial joys of "Senior Year":

Pictures
yearbook
cap & gown
class ring
senior prom
prom dress/tux rental
graduation party

Just went through this with one of my own. It is a money gravy train for sure, and one of the more difficult areas to be frugal about.

RunHappy

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2015, 09:27:38 AM »
First off, your family didn't mark you as a cash source, you marked yourself as a cash source.

Second, what I learned from this is you tend to favor and spend lavishly on one child while ignoring her siblings and cousins.   This type of favoritism only leads to resentment and should have been disallowed by the parents. 

wenchsenior

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2015, 09:36:03 AM »
ahhh, the financial joys of "Senior Year":

Pictures
yearbook
cap & gown
class ring
senior prom
prom dress/tux rental
graduation party

Just went through this with one of my own. It is a money gravy train for sure, and one of the more difficult areas to be frugal about.

Wow. I don't mean to derail the thread, but I didn't even know most of these things existed. I mean, I knew about prom and yearbook.  I guess I knew about the cap and gown back when I was in high school, but since I didn't attend graduation, I forgot about them quickly thereafter.

I have always been under the impression that photos for the year book were something done at the school, for free. I never even knew about these multiple hundreds of dollars for portraits. WTF? WHY? And what are these class rings. They cost money? What are they exactly? And when you say graduation party, do you mean, like, official and costing money for attendance rather than just random kids getting together with their friends to celebrate? Have things changed that much since I attended in the late 1980s? :god, so confused:

To topic: I don't think 900$ is unreasonable at all, considering all the stuff you bought. However, I do think you are potentially setting up a bad precedent, and to be truly  helpful this girl, you might consider bi-weekly get-togethers where you go over practical life skills, rather than buy her stuff.

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: Family Marks Us As Cash Source (rant)
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2015, 10:01:53 AM »
First off, your family didn't mark you as a cash source, you marked yourself as a cash source.

Second, what I learned from this is you tend to favor and spend lavishly on one child while ignoring her siblings and cousins.   This type of favoritism only leads to resentment and should have been disallowed by the parents.

I believe OP said that the siblings were more profoundly disabled.  I'm guessing mom has to spend more time with those siblings than she does with the girl at issue here.  It's nice for her to get some extra special attention just to her.

I'm also not a fan of the everyone must be treated equally mantra in families or in the workforce.  I do agree that I can't play favorites for protected class reasons.  But, if I want to give some extra privileges to an employee who does better work that is a legitimate benefit I can offer.  Likewise, I may have a naturally closer relationship with one of my relatives and I should be able to impart, at my discretion, more benefits on this relative if I so choose. Weren't you closer with one Aunt or cousin then your other relatives? Weren't things from this person more special?

Lastly, needs are not always equal thus treatment shouldn't always be equal.  Maybe the other cousins have wealthier parents. Maybe the siblings are so disabled they are unaware of the special treatment and don't really need new school supplies.

My mom used to get all annoyed that my grandmother gave better presents to my mom's cousins kids then she did to her kids.  Well, those kids got $h!t from Santa and Santa was quite generous to us.  Also, those kids spent more time w/ my grandma then we did.  Of course she liked them more.  I wasn't offended and I thought my mom was petty and ridiculous for being offended.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!