Author Topic: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change  (Read 4686 times)

Ricky

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« on: July 19, 2014, 06:33:18 PM »
Something crossed my mind recently - MMM is all about efficiency and doing things that make sense rather than things that are in excess and unnecessary. So that said, why does he continue to boast a 50%+ savings rate on his passive income? Why does he continue to "work" for income through his blog and his now automated reviews and services that he obviously doesn't need.

I guess I'm saying, wouldn't the "efficient" person only have as much money as they need set back while allowing some room for error, inflation, emergencies, etc, as humanly possible. But it just seems like MMM lives on so little in comparison to what he is capable of that it seems fairly inefficient.

One could argue that most of his savings go right back into investments and that he isn't really wasting money by keeping it in investments since someone already paid for the investment a long time ago (stocks). It just seems like when you still have over a 50% savings rate in retirement, you would start putting it towards something like charities and starting businesses and taking risks since you have the money to do so. I'm not saying he doesn't do anything of these things, because I don't know. I can only go by what I see on the blog.

So all that said - I feel like MMM is more about a lifestyle than it is about reaching financial independence. I feel like so many here feel like they will do these things that MMM recommends but once they hit retirement they are living it up and traveling and doing what they want basically.

Thoughts?

Middlesbrough

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2014, 06:42:28 PM »
Something crossed my mind recently - MMM is all about efficiency and doing things that make sense rather than things that are in excess and unnecessary. So that said, why does he continue to boast a 50%+ savings rate on his passive income? Why does he continue to "work" for income through his blog and his now automated reviews and services that he obviously doesn't need.

I guess I'm saying, wouldn't the "efficient" person only have as much money as they need set back while allowing some room for error, inflation, emergencies, etc, as humanly possible. But it just seems like MMM lives on so little in comparison to what he is capable of that it seems fairly inefficient.

One could argue that most of his savings go right back into investments and that he isn't really wasting money by keeping it in investments since someone already paid for the investment a long time ago (stocks). It just seems like when you still have over a 50% savings rate in retirement, you would start putting it towards something like charities and starting businesses and taking risks since you have the money to do so. I'm not saying he doesn't do anything of these things, because I don't know. I can only go by what I see on the blog.

So all that said - I feel like MMM is more about a lifestyle than it is about reaching financial independence. I feel like so many here feel like they will do these things that MMM recommends but once they hit retirement they are living it up and traveling and doing what they want basically.

Thoughts?
I think this is the point of becoming FI. The exact reason I want to be FI is to travel. There are people and places out there I want to see and meet. The extra will go to my future kids.

desk_jockey

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Bristles
  • *
  • Posts: 326
Re: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2014, 06:48:07 PM »
I think he has answered these questions in the blog.

Quote
why does he continue to boast a 50%+ savings rate on his passive income?
More than trying to have a high savings rate, it appears to me that he and the Mrs enjoy not spending money and all that that entails.

Quote
Why does he continue to "work" for income through his blog and his now automated reviews and services that he obviously doesn't need?
He has definitely answered this one before.  Many types of work, particularly those that have elements of creativity, are a form of pleasure, especially if you aren’t forced to do it and can do it when and where you want.

Also don't be so quick to make assumptions on gifts to charities. 

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2014, 07:40:10 PM »
He messed up and made too much money.

DecD

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 298
Re: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2014, 09:36:31 PM »
He has also mentioned that he intends to donate all the profit from the blog to charity, once they figure out how to do it right.  By "right" I assume they mean ensuring that the money actually goes to the cause they want it to help, rather than being frittered away somehow. 

I don't see the MM family being the lazy, lay around, do nothing type.

On a personal note, we're about 5 years from FI but I don't know if I'll quit working...I'm pretty miserable when I'm bored, and I didn't spend 6 years getting a PhD to sit on my rear all day on the couch.  I have to come up with a solid plan BEFORE I quit my full-time job, and that plan will have to involve work or some kind or I'll be bored out of my mind. 

Being frugal makes them happy.  Working at jobs they love makes them happy.  Having the luxury of donating to causes they believe in makes them happy.  I think this blog is more about true happiness than about earning exactly enough to achieve financial independence....

Ricky

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
Re: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 10:56:49 PM »
He has also mentioned that he intends to donate all the profit from the blog to charity, once they figure out how to do it right.  By "right" I assume they mean ensuring that the money actually goes to the cause they want it to help, rather than being frittered away somehow. 

I don't see the MM family being the lazy, lay around, do nothing type.

On a personal note, we're about 5 years from FI but I don't know if I'll quit working...I'm pretty miserable when I'm bored, and I didn't spend 6 years getting a PhD to sit on my rear all day on the couch.  I have to come up with a solid plan BEFORE I quit my full-time job, and that plan will have to involve work or some kind or I'll be bored out of my mind. 

Being frugal makes them happy.  Working at jobs they love makes them happy.  Having the luxury of donating to causes they believe in makes them happy.  I think this blog is more about true happiness than about earning exactly enough to achieve financial independence....

Agreed (your last paragraph)

Donations, to me, seem like the logical step for someone who has everything they'll ever want.

I just think a lot of people here have specific goals and they know exactly where their money will go. MMM doesn't really track his spending, as he's said in his blog. He just ends up spending about the same amount because of his mentality and how he lives. Does that make sense?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 11:01:01 PM by Ricky »

Nords

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3426
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Oahu
    • Military Retirement & Financial Independence blog
Re: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 10:57:25 PM »
Something crossed my mind recently - MMM is all about efficiency and doing things that make sense rather than things that are in excess and unnecessary. So that said, why does he continue to boast a 50%+ savings rate on his passive income? Why does he continue to "work" for income through his blog and his now automated reviews and services that he obviously doesn't need.

I guess I'm saying, wouldn't the "efficient" person only have as much money as they need set back while allowing some room for error, inflation, emergencies, etc, as humanly possible. But it just seems like MMM lives on so little in comparison to what he is capable of that it seems fairly inefficient.

One could argue that most of his savings go right back into investments and that he isn't really wasting money by keeping it in investments since someone already paid for the investment a long time ago (stocks). It just seems like when you still have over a 50% savings rate in retirement, you would start putting it towards something like charities and starting businesses and taking risks since you have the money to do so. I'm not saying he doesn't do anything of these things, because I don't know. I can only go by what I see on the blog.

So all that said - I feel like MMM is more about a lifestyle than it is about reaching financial independence. I feel like so many here feel like they will do these things that MMM recommends but once they hit retirement they are living it up and traveling and doing what they want basically.
The skills that helped him pile up assets for FI are the same skills that keep piling up more assets after FI.  Being FI has given him more time to do more home improvement and to make the blog even more profitable.

He's doing it because it's fun, and perhaps because it's hard to believe that running a blog could spew forth that much cash.

Everyone worries about running out of money during FI.  However it seems as if the last 12 years have given me more opportunities to make side-hustle money than I ever had when I was working, and in ER I don't need much to cover the portfolio withdrawal rate.  Maybe FI helps people unleash their inner entrepreneurs and see what they're really capable of.  Or it gives them more time to do things for themselves (cutting expenses) and do more of the things they enjoy. 

He has also mentioned that he intends to donate all the profit from the blog to charity, once they figure out how to do it right.  By "right" I assume they mean ensuring that the money actually goes to the cause they want it to help, rather than being frittered away somehow. 
I think it's much easier to sit back and watch the green waste pile up while you're researching the philanthropy questions.  What if you give it all away and a better opportunity comes along?  What if instead of helping 100 homeless people, you could invest in a business that would hire thousands of employees? 

And frankly, there's always the behavioral finance emotional nightmare:  what if you spent down your portfolio and then got blindsided with a huge unexpected expense?  Admittedly if he limits philanthropy to the blog income then that's not a problem.

On a personal note, we're about 5 years from FI but I don't know if I'll quit working...I'm pretty miserable when I'm bored, and I didn't spend 6 years getting a PhD to sit on my rear all day on the couch.  I have to come up with a solid plan BEFORE I quit my full-time job, and that plan will have to involve work or some kind or I'll be bored out of my mind. 

Being frugal makes them happy.  Working at jobs they love makes them happy.  Having the luxury of donating to causes they believe in makes them happy.  I think this blog is more about true happiness than about earning exactly enough to achieve financial independence....
The best advice I've seen is that in early retirement you have to be responsible for your own entertainment.  If you can't figure out your own projects that are complex, fulfilling, and done on your own schedule... then yeah, you'd better seek the solace of the workplace while you come up with a better plan.

The good news is that while "What will I DO all day?!?" is the #3 concern of all early retirees, it's usually the first concern to vaporize.  Six months after you retire, you'll be wondering what the heck you were worried about.

slugline

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
  • Location: Houston, TX USA
Re: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2014, 06:38:19 AM »
After reading many blog posts. I slowly came to the conclusion that MMM is actually about curbing the consumerist consumption monster and creating an environmentally sustainable lifestyle.

I personally believe that the early retirement/financial independence angle is there to get the attention of people who may not otherwise think there's any personal benefit to doing good for the planet. :)

Thegoblinchief

  • Guest
Re: F.I. vs. a Lifestyle Change
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 06:42:31 AM »
After reading many blog posts. I slowly came to the conclusion that MMM is actually about curbing the consumerist consumption monster and creating an environmentally sustainable lifestyle.

I personally believe that the early retirement/financial independence angle is there to get the attention of people who may not otherwise think there's any personal benefit to doing good for the planet. :)

The two go hand in hand, however. ERE is the same way. Instead of using the massive productivity increases to buy more shit, we're using it to fulfill the dream of theorists in the early 20th century for the 10-20 hour workweek.