Author Topic: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?  (Read 20259 times)

The Happy Philosopher

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
    • thehappyphilosopher
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2017, 12:18:17 PM »
Holy cow! Fantastic responses. A huge THANK YOU to all that took the time to respond, and with so much detail. I did not expect that. This is a big reason this is my favorite forum on the internet. <3

I took several pages of notes because I wanted to see the responses all on one page so I could get a sense, and here are some of my observations:

-Although there are a few out-liars (both high and low) it seems most spend in the 60k-100k range. Incidentally this is where my spending has usually been the past 5 years I have tracked it.

-Yes, I am aware MMM has not mortgage and I account for that by adjusting his imaginary spending to about 45-50k for a reference point. I still could not get to that level without feeling like I was depriving myself. I would have to completely restructure my life to get to that spending level.

-For my spending I include property tax, but not state or federal tax as those are tied to my income and will be drastically lower when I  quite my day job.

-The two most common "what are your weak points" categories by far were 1. Food 2.Cleaning

- Most people were in the 35-60% savings range.

-Taxes are brutal up here. There is no where for most high income earners to hide in the tax code in spite of what the common perception is.

- Regarding the house cleaning. When my wife and I were both working this was the best money we spent by far. There is nothing quite like coming home to a freshly cleaned house after a crappy week of work. The amount of happiness that this brought us was so great that I did not consider it a weak point, I considered it frugal as there was little else we could spend out money on that made us that happy.

-Food is, well, not really a weak point, but is probably not all that efficient. We buy the food that we love and favor quality over price. We waste much less of it than we used to, and eat out seldom because my wife prepares such fantastic meals.

-Interesting both my spending AND happiness has trended higher over the last few years, but I don't think they are causal, or maybe backwards. I have more time to spend money working part time, and now that I  worry less about money I think I'm more willing to spend it and not be so concerned. When I was making more and burned out/unhappy I spent less. Now that I'm making less and happy I'm spending (a bit) more.

More thoughts to follow after some further synthesis.


spud1987

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 356
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2017, 01:47:47 PM »
Our household income fluctuates between 310-350k/year depending on bonuses and my wife's commission. We feel very fortunate to earn this much because it allows us to never worry about money issues.

What do you spend per year?

Taxes (all): $120k (60k federal, 35k state, 10k property, 15 FICA/FUTA)
Housing: $35k
Childcare: $25k
Everything else: $40k

How much do you save (nominal or %)?

Around 120k. This is about 60% of our post-tax salary.

Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income?

Definitely eating out at restaurants. We also spend more on travel because we are limited in our ability to plan vacations (i.e., we can't spontaneously book a cheap flight that leaves on a Tuesday when they pop up)

Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending?

I'm fine now with our non-mortgage and non-housing expenses. We are saving to buy a paid off house in a low COL area now. Once we FIRE our mortgage and childcare costs will go to 0. Our FIRE budget will be between 40-50k.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 01:49:44 PM by spud1987 »

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3770
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2017, 02:05:03 PM »
Paying for cleaning is one of those things that sounds far more extravagant than it is.  It really doesn't cost THAT much money and there are lots of other things I'd cut first.  We pay $70 (I think) every other week to the cleaning lady.  That, to me, is a huge bang for the buck in terms of "buying free time".

retired?

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 665
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2017, 03:19:46 PM »
What do you spend per year?

I focused on savings.  i.e. I put on auto-pilot what I thought was reasonable given the amount of income.

How much do you save (nominal or %)?

I maxed out 401k and beyond pre-tax, i.e. the 55k limit for the combined income of both employee and employer.  Paid down how aggressively, saved each annual bonus.

Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income?

Not too much.  I saw one person mention cleaning service.  We had this, but it was $2600/year and worth it.  Cars are normal (think Honda and Toyota....sorry Detroit).  I think vacations are reasonable (about $4-5k per year....sometimes 6k), but my wife has said we spend less than her friends.  Restaurants - while working, we'd easily spend $100-150 twice a month and less every other weekend.  Now, we think twice about that.

Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending?

Are you living more frugally than it appears because of a very high cost of living area?

No, living in low COL now.  Perhaps when living in other high COL we didn't "up" our spending equal to income.  So, could have been lower.

scottish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2716
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2017, 05:50:57 PM »
We're in the 200-250K CAD range depending on bonus.

Last year we invested about 62K and we spent about 82K  (and the rest was income tax!).  12K of the spend was for capital improvements on the house (new A/C unit, removing an in-ground swimming pool we no longer use).   So this is around a 50% of net savings rate.

My weak points are that I don't do my own vehicle maintenance.    I found this just sucks without a hoist and an air wrench and ...      I generally don't like labour intensive work, so if it's cost effective compared to my salary, I'll hire someone to do this -  trimming the hedges for example.

Canada is a somewhat high COL area.   I'd like to figure out our food spend in particular, last year it was almost 17000 CAD and that seems a bit ridiculous for 2 adults and 1 teenage boy.


Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2017, 07:13:22 PM »
How about this question. Let's say someone makes $1M per year after taxes and has $300K of expenses per year. They have a savings rate of 70%. Do we consider them mustachian because they save 70% or are they not mustachian because they spend $300k per year.

Who cares? The argument over what is "mustachian" on these boards is getting old.
But if we don't agree, how else can posters from 2012 look down upon us newbies who have new ideas?

aspiringnomad

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 956
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2017, 09:05:38 PM »
Depending on bonus, we pull in ~$290k including rental income, and around $275k excluding the rental.

What do you spend per year? About ~$70k, 30 of which goes towards our condo.

How much do you save (nominal or %)? I don't calculate my savings rate owing to the many ways in which that can be done and the fact that it's not super useful to me. I'm more concerned about the NW which grew by $202k last year. So it appears capital gains covered the taxes we paid.

Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income? Weak points are eating out, social activities, and travel. The travel is always worth it to us, and we enjoy being around our friends, but should definitely cut back on eating at restaurants and drinking out. It's usually not worth it.

Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending? I'm increasingly of the belief that it's circumstantial for me. Money was once very, very tight and I lived off $800 a month while living in another country as a student (all in, and this is not a LCOL country), then $18k per year in a HCOL city in the US as a grad student. I was pretty happy with my life then. This is not to suggest mindless lifestyle inflation is ok, but a good chunk of spending can quickly become structural in a HCOL area with a demanding job and the decision to own a place close-in. If circumstances were to revert to my pauper past, I'm pretty sure I could scale back easily without sacrificing much happiness. I'm stoic like that. My wife might struggle a little bit more, but she'd be fine eventually too. This is important to us, as our location and lifestyle are likely to change at least a couple times after we quit our jobs.

Are you living more frugally than it appears because of a very high cost of living area? Yeah, $70k per annum for two people is not the slightest impressive to a Mustachian but maybe I get some credit considering that 42% of that goes towards a 1 bedroom condo and there are 30+ restaurants within a 10 minute walk tempting me. We're starting to drop hints about our FIRE plans to some very close friends. While they would otherwise think we're frugal, they might have a tough time squaring it with how much we travel internationally. A huge amount of that is offset by credit card travel hacking (I love that game). So they probably either think we're crazy and gonna go broke or that I'm an investing savant. I'll pretend it's the latter. (Jk, I tell them to index all the way).




« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 09:07:29 PM by aspiringnomad »

dude

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2369
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2017, 08:23:21 AM »
Wow, first off, I didn't realize there were that many 1%'ers on this board these days!  that said, we're in the top 5% or so with @$260k/year.

What do you spend per year?


After taxes, @$90k

How much do you save (nominal or %)?

Really depends on how you calculate savings. Depending on how, it's anywhere from 42% of gross, to 75% of net-- my employers defers @$45k/year of income to my pension, and we're maxed out at $52,800 in 401k contributions (max deferral + matches + catch-ups (for me)).

Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income?

Groceries.  I buy a lot of organic, free range shit that costs WAY more than food needs to.  We spend at least $600/month on groceries for TWO PEOPLE!  That's insane and I know it, but I feel like I'm kinda hedging my bets health-wise by eating this stuff, and I am mindful of the ethical dimensions as well (i.e., feedlot beef and poultry is some sad, sorry ass, depressing shit). The good news is I could chop this by at least 1/2 if things got tough.

Elsewhere, I spend a fair amount on recreational gear (incl. climbing gear, backcountry ski gear, technical outerwear, etc.). The good news is I work part-time as a professional climbing guide, so I get pro discounts on pretty much everything I buy (40-50% off retail).

OMG, craft beer -- here in the NE we have some of the very best beer on the planet, incl. TreeHouse, Trillium, Other Half, Bissell Bros., etc.  Typical cost is $16-$22 a FOUR pack.  But fk me, it's worth every penny!  Best tasting beer you'll ever put your lips to.

Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending?

I think @ $80k. We travel a LOT (4-5 vacations/year).  And though we do it mostly low budget as far as accommodations and air travel go, I spend a fair amount on my recreational hobbies when we do, including snowboarding and scuba diving (surfing and climbing are pretty cheap).

Are you living more frugally than it appears because of a very high cost of living area?

I think so, yes.  We are in a high COL area (Boston). We own one car, a Subaru bought used (@4 years old when purchased), and don't have a lot of the trappings of an upper middle class life. I shop for clothes mainly at Gap and Old Navy, I wear the stuff until it wears out. The wife has more expensive tastes, but isn't extravagant with her dress, jewelry (with the notable exception of the engagement ring I bought her - ugh), etc. We know a lot of folks who make a lot less than us who spend far more on all manner of shit (cars, home improvements, clothes, dining out).
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 08:29:07 AM by dude »

41918

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2017, 06:03:30 PM »
I want to follow up on my response. A few years ago a light bulb came on. I realized the cost of my time. If I can pay someone to clean, shop, run errands for less than I would then I outsource and spend my energy on more productive uses of my time. Seems simple but took me a while to figure it out. I was folding laundry for $175 an hour. Putting all my effort towards what I'm good at and outsourcing the rest was a game changer. I was stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. Income dives and I'll start scrubbing toilets again.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 06:09:17 PM by 41918 »

The Happy Philosopher

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
    • thehappyphilosopher
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2017, 08:07:20 PM »
I want to follow up on my response. A few years ago a light bulb came on. I realized the cost of my time. If I can pay someone to clean, shop, run errands for less than I would then I outsource and spend my energy on more productive uses of my time. Seems simple but took me a while to figure it out. I was folding laundry for $175 an hour. Putting all my effort towards what I'm good at and outsourcing the rest was a game changer. I was stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. Income dives and I'll start scrubbing toilets again.

Yeah, I think this is a difference between average and extreme income. At some point it makes more sense to outsource both from an economic and happiness stand point. Avoiding all outsourcing at very high income levels starts to look like 'cheap' instead of 'frugal'. It can be hard to know where that line is though.

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2017, 08:52:40 PM »
We outsource housecleaning because we both hate doing it and would gladly work another 6 months to pay for a lifetime of housecleaning fees. That's how we decided. Landscaping and house repairs I enjoy so don't consider them chores.

itchyfeet

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 985
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2017, 01:10:22 AM »
I have been trying to convince DW to outsource cleaning for years. She won't have it.

I work very long hours and the last thing I want to do on the weekends is clean.

DW works relatively short hours and is happy to spend a few hours each week keeping the place clean.

The only problem is that she waits until I am home on the weekend to do the cleaning and of course expects me to do my share.... :-/

Causes a few arguments. Lol.

2Birds1Stone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7916
  • Age: 1
  • Location: Earth
  • K Thnx Bye
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2017, 04:33:38 AM »
I can't wait to get to that mental shift point where it makes sense to outsource this stuff.

I guess cleaning a 1 bedroom apartment when you don't have kids/pets is not so bad.

seattlecyclone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7254
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • My blog
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2017, 10:42:49 AM »
For those of you with extremely high incomes (I may define this as above $200,000, but please define it however you want for purposes of this thought exercise).

Our household income exceeded your number for the past three years. My ridiculous signing bonus stock grant that <current_employer> offered me to convince me to give up my remaining unvested pre-IPO stock options at <previous_employer> ran out last year, and we also switched to 60% time work schedules mid-year, so I don't expect us to reach your "extremely high income" threshold going forward.

Quote
What do you spend per year?

After income taxes, we consistently spent in the $25-30k range as just a couple. Like MMM himself, we "cheat" by having a paid-off house. We had a baby a year ago and the child care added a good chunk to this total (about $1,000/month). Other expenses haven't changed much yet, but we are considering a bigger house. That would bring property tax, utility, maintenance, and imputed house price costs up proportionally.

Quote
How much do you save (nominal or %)?

Lots. Last year we maxed out our 401(k)s (including after-tax for me), plus HSA and IRAs, started a 529 for our son, and had a bit left over to pad our taxable account as well.

Quote
Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income?

There are some optimizations that have fallen by the wayside as we've gotten closer to FI. These include:
  • Clipping coupons. Most of the coupons that come in the mail are for stuff we don't buy anyway. We used to look through it for the occasional money-saving opportunity, but now the whole stack goes straight to the recycling. I do open up the Safeway app before going to the store to see if there are any discounts for the stuff on our list; I often save $5 or more for spending a couple of minutes on that.
  • Using a savings account. There was a time when I would keep most of our cash in a savings account and keep a minimal balance in the checking account, transferring back and forth when paychecks came in or bills were about to be paid. With interest rates the way they are, the perhaps $100/year I could make by doing this is not worth my time.
  • Credit card sign-up bonuses. I'm generally happy getting my 2-5% cash back rather than applying for new cards for a one-time extra bonus that makes me monitor my spending extra hard to make sure I meet the minimum spending requirements. The Chase Sapphire Reserve was lucrative enough for me to make an exception.

I'm sure there are other things.

Quote
Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending?

Housing aside, it's about what we actually spend. Our little two-bedroom one-bathroom bungalow that served us great as just a couple is feeling a bit tighter with three of us, and I don't think I want to try cramming four into here. It could certainly be done if needed, but I'd rather just work a little longer to pay for one that will allow for a luxurious level of comfort.

Quote
Are you living more frugally than it appears because of a very high cost of living area?

Well, we are in Seattle. Housing and child care are super expensive here, but most other things seem pretty comparable to the rest of the country.

asauer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 848
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2017, 11:47:06 AM »
We're at 225K gross/ year.

What do you spend per year? 50K not including taxes (ugh!)

How much do you save (nominal or %)? 50% average

Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income? We do pay for a cleaner to come in quarterly and I pay tolls for a quicker ride home from work (I take the long way to work) and I pay for a grocery service but I don't see those as lazy, I see them as making a significant difference in the time I have with my kiddos so we won't be changing that.  The only actual weakness we have is travel- we do love it.  We've significantly reduced the spending by doing mostly camping but still...

Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending? Where we are now, maybe minus 5%

Are you living more frugally than it appears because of a very high cost of living area? For our state it's HCOL, for the US, it's LCOL

garth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 124
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2017, 03:12:45 PM »
We (household of 2) made $245k last year after being around $150k or so for the last 6 or 7 years.

We spent $88k last year in an average COL area. Biggest spending categories were mortgage and repairs ($27k), food/restaurants ($15k), travel ($14k), and then insurances ($7k).

Savings rate was 56%.

We tend to outsource big repairs (home, car, etc), but I do a lot of DIY where I can. I don't think our spending on food, travel, clothes, and whatnot is because we're lazy...we really like eating out, traveling, and new clothes.

I'm not sure about happiness, but I'm certain I could find ways to spend more money that would boost my enjoyment of life in the short-term.

Edit: We were a smidge lazy (okay, very lazy) with our travel spending last year. We usually spend around half what we did. I'm trying to change that this year by using our points and churning out some more. So while we've have spent $2000 already, that includes 7 domestic roundtrip flights, 5 nights in a hotel, a big downpayment on an AirBnB for 10 people (that we'll shoulder most of the cost of), and 10 days of eating/transportation/activities while overseas in January (e.g., scuba, entrance fees, etc.). I'm thinking we'll be back down to $6k or $7k when all is said an done this year (only to be offset by home repairs).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 03:27:31 PM by garth »

FireLane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1329
  • Age: 41
  • Location: NYC
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2017, 06:41:38 PM »
This is a neat idea for a thread, I'll play. My income last year was about $230K before tax, about $300K combined with DW.

What do you spend per year?

Last year, we spent just under $75,000. From what I read, this is the level above which further spending brings no additional happiness, so I think we're right on target. :) This doesn't include money put towards our mortgage, which I count as saving since it's nearly paid off and is mostly going toward equity at this point.

How much do you save (nominal or %)?

Including money put towards the mortgage, we saved around $120K last year. I haven't crunched the numbers, but I'd estimate our SR at about 60-65% (post-tax).

Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income?

I have to admit, there's room for optimization in my budget. I like to travel (and plan to keep doing so after FIRE), and while I don't think my idea of a vacation is extravagant, it's nice to not have to be ruthless about finding the cheapest flights and accommodations. There are lots of HCOL places that DW and I want to see in our lives.

We eat out less than we used to before discovering MMM, but that's an expense we could cut back further. I have a weakness for fancypants restaurants with a good craft beer selection.

I also spend money on a cable TV package that, to be honest, I probably wouldn't miss if we cut it out. Most of our show-watching is on Netflix or Amazon these days. But it's nice to know the TV is there if I want it, even though I probably only watch it a few hours per month. Face-punch-worthy, I'm sure. I may try cutting the cord in the next two years when my promotional rate expires.

Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending?

Tough to say! I'm trying to reduce our spending this year, although we have a kid now and that complicates things. Fewer big trips and fancy meals out, but now we have daycare and other expenses. We don't buy much stuff we don't need, but I'm sure we haven't yet reduced our spending to the minimum level that's consistent with our current happiness level.

Are you living more frugally than it appears because of a very high cost of living area?

Yes, definitely. We own a small apartment in a famously HCOL city. If we wanted to buy a house, it would be very easy to spend a million dollars. But then I'd be working for 30 years to pay it off and that would be a drag for my FIRE plans!

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4378
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Florida
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2017, 07:44:05 PM »
This is an interesting analysis...

Around $250k
Loose 40k to income taxes
Then loose $45,000/year in housing, some of that is principal, HCOL area 3 miles from the office, we may get back some with appreciation.  This is clearly an expensive choice to not deal with a commute. 
Spend about $40,000, which probably includes a few thousand in what I'll call unreimbursed work expenses (clothing, meals out with co-workers, happy hours, golf, charity/charity events)

Net savings of $125,000/year.  I'm projecting needing/wanting $36k/year in retirement plus a home, all comes down to where we move to because we ain't staying here

Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income?
- Weak/Lazy - Caffeine during the week, my job sometimes has me away from the office for 6-8 hours and I love coffee

Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending?
- Happiness is more about location, environment, and people around.   I think when someone gets past about $30k + a house, there's not really any increased level of happiness that stuff brings.

Are you living more frugally than it appears because of a very high cost of living area?
I think so, there are a lack of outdoor/free entertainment options, so we spend more on travel

« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 07:53:41 PM by chasesfish »

w@nker

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2017, 08:05:56 PM »
With total annual compensation of more than $500k, we spend less than $80k and have been saving north of $250k per year.  Uncle Sam gets the rest.

My weak points are my hobbies, namely racing my car (tires and track fees add up).  We also rent our house and are probably paying more than we should, but my time and sanity are too valuable to deal with the hassle of moving to find a better deal on rent.

We live in a moderately high cost of living area.  Nothing crazy, though.  Could probably normalize spending at $60k in a LCOL area without any real changes to lifestyle.  Spending is heavier than we would like, so we are taking steps to make some deep cuts this year.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 08:10:29 PM by w@nker »

Half Stached

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #69 on: February 20, 2017, 09:09:50 PM »
All numbers are post tax.

What do you spend per year? We spent 76K in 2016.

How much do you save (nominal or %)? We saved 187K in 2016 (or 71%).

Where are your weak points where you get lazy because of your income? Definitely food. We eat out regularly, and our grocery bill averages out close to $200/week.

Where have you found your optimum happiness level of spending? I believe our optimal would be at about 90K. My wife likes to travel a lot, and we make some compromises in this space for budget.

Are you living more frugally than it appears because of a very high cost of living area? We do live in a HCOL and rent. If we owned our own place, our annual spend would be about 47K.

Ricky

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
Re: Extremely High Income Mustachians: How much do you spend?
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2017, 06:18:07 AM »
How about this question. Let's say someone makes $1M per year after taxes and has $300K of expenses per year. They have a savings rate of 70%. Do we consider them mustachian because they save 70% or are they not mustachian because they spend $300k per year.

Neither. I think MMM perfectly reiterated the mantra of this site in his recent tweet/link to the Tim Ferriss interview - optimizing spending for happiness. Nowhere in that phrase includes the specifics of what that actually means.

But, take a hypothetical situation of someone saving 0%. Is it reasonable to assume that their spending is optimized for happiness, considering the course of their lifetime? No, because even if they love their job, they're probably smart enough to realize that they won't always love it and that if they have no savings or investments then they're forever tethered to a life of working. It's about living a more directed life. It's about not giving into impulses and trends and realizing that you have to take care of every aspect of your life for as long as you're here - and it's about doing that in the smartest ways possible.

I also don't think it's reasonable to assume that many people's spending here are perfectly aligned with happiness as most here freely admit to spending excessively (ie: wasting) on housing and food. The difference is that they can change their situation very quickly since they already have the income to make things happen much quicker than your average joe who doesn't ever think about what they're doing with their money at all.

The MMM mentality is all based on an engineer's mindset of optimizing for efficiency and thinking about the future with an excessive dose of optimism. Not everyone cares about optimizing to the fullest extent. But without the niche, would MMM have much to write about? You don't have to fit his mold 100% to take what you can from the philosophy.