Extreme Measures (to get your SO on board)

[retired?]

I've had discussions, but it's just not sinking in.  I'll provide some background below, but my question is:

Has anyone resorted to (what might be considered) extreme measures to curtail your SO's spending?

Some basic recent examples that I didn't agree with:

 - bought a rabbit.  Cost and hassle are more than dealing with our dog.  I think she realizes this now, but it's a little late.

 - pasta sauce.  We were out.  I asked what kind she usually buys.  Says Monte Bene.  I see it is $4.48/jar.  I point that out.  She says she only buys it when it's on sale.  I asked what the sale price is....answer $3.48....."it tastes better".  I bought Classico for $2.12 and think it tastes fine.  Over a year, since we eat pasta weekly, that could run to about $50-60 annually.  Not much, but geez, I'd never notice the taste diff.  I want to keep my $50-60.

 - clothes....has a full closet, but still buys more.  I know I won't get too much sympathy from the ladies for this one, but she buys bras like they are going out of style.  I needed a new one.  That one didn't fit.....etc. etc.  Bras ain't cheap, so it adds up.  Looking forward to the responses to this part ; )

------------------------------------

I think we are fine financially, but if she continues to spend (almost) as though I am still working then it will really throw us off.  Looking for ideas to force her to see how much is being spent (aside from MINT, etc.)

Key problem (I think) is that she knows we have savings and could pay off any bill she racks up.  I started using automatic cash advances from CC to our checking account to highlight when we've spent more than we should have, but I don't really like that idea.

- I'm 47, she's 46
- two kids.
- she works, I don't, but want to start doing something to keep busy.
- when i was working we never used a budget.  My approach was to set savings on auto-pilot and spend the rest.  i.e. if I make X, then I think I should be able to save Y....set that up and if no problems, then fine.  Problem is that I earned enough so that we didn't have to really think about spending.
- kids are 13, 15.  College accounts full.
- house paid off.

[charis]

Have rabbit for dinner? Two stones and whatnot...

Joking aside, how did you plan to FIRE if you never worked out a budget or a ball-park spending limit that your SO was on board with?  In other words, if you knew what she was spending while you were working, why is it suddenly a problem now?  I am confused.

[retired?]

Have rabbit for dinner? Two stones and whatnot...

Joking aside, how did you plan to FIRE if you never worked out a budget or a ball-park spending limit that your SO was on board with?  In other words, if you knew what she was spending while you were working, why is it suddenly a problem now?  I am confused.

I say "wabbit season!" almost daily. 

I FIRE'd somewhat abruptly.  Was fed up with work.  Did a little networth calc and decided I could quit.  At the time, I didn't know that I'd be RE, but I haven't gone back.  Thus, there wasn't really much planning.  I found this site a few months after quitting.  At the time of quitting, I figured there was a 75% or so likelihood that I'd keep doing the same thing, but for a different employer.

It's just that before quitting the 'unreasonable' didn't cause a problem.

I figure many people find themselves in this situation.  Not all of us are fortunate enough to have the foresight of MMM and to be frugal from the outset.

But, I am looking for strategies from people who also weren't able to convince their SO to spend wisely.  Beyond discussions.

[Patches]

But, I am looking for strategies from people who also weren't able to convince their SO to spend wisely.  Beyond discussions.

"Beyond discussions..."  What on earth are you referring to?

[Malum Prohibitum]

- pasta sauce.  We were out.  I asked what kind she usually buys.  Says Monte Bene.  I see it is $4.48/jar.  I point that out.  She says she only buys it when it's on sale.  I asked what the sale price is....answer $3.48....."it tastes better".  I bought Classico for $2.12 and think it tastes fine. 

  Classico is my favorite!  My wife refuses to buy it, however.  She says it is too expensive!  :)

[retired?]

But, I am looking for strategies from people who also weren't able to convince their SO to spend wisely.  Beyond discussions.

"Beyond discussions..."  What on earth are you referring to?

Beyond having further discussions to convince my wife.  I've tried that.  Most of what I've seen on this forum RE getting a SO on board is about candid discussions.  So, what if that doesn't work? 

[Laura33]

So what kind of discussions did you have before you retired?  How involved is/was she in developing/implementing the budget?  Might she be resentful that she is still working and you are not? 

I am obviously inferring a lot from a short summary, but I am guessing that your retirement has caused you to significantly change your approach to money.  If you never budgeted before but do now, my guess is that she has always bought the Monte Bene pasta sauce, and she's always bought bras when she needed/wanted them*, and that this has only become an issue -- something you noticed -- because now you're retired and money is tighter.  Basically, you have been expecting her to make a significant change in her spending habits, and it sounds like she is not making those changes.  So either she didn't understand what degree of changes would be necessary, or she doesn't think you need to cut back that much, or she is just flat-out not willing to comply with your plan if she has to make those sacrifices. 

All of that makes me wonder what conversations/understanding you had before you jumped -- and what conversations have you had since that time?  Did she not understand?  Did she understand but now that she's in it has decided that the finances are too tight and she's not willing to cut back that far?  Does she agree in principle but thinks the money should come from X or Y instead of "her" bras and preferred groceries?  The solution is more talking, not "extreme measures" that treat her like a noncompliant child.

If she is willing to consider changes, the food substitutions are the easiest thing.  My DH is more like your DW and likes specific brands of things like fancy OJ, and I resent paying brand-name price when there's no difference.  So when I find a cheaper version, we do a blind taste test.  If he can tell the difference and has a clear preference, we keep the brand name; if not, I buy the cheaper one.  But this only works if you are both communicating and willing to engage -- you can't spring it as a "gotcha!" without messing with your relationship.

FWIW, I buy $0.99 pasta sauce or make my own.  But if my DH was suddenly looking at every grocery receipt, criticizing my choices, and making helpful "suggestions" for how I could do it better, I would absolutely lose my shit.  If he were lucky and I were in a forgiving mood, I'd tell him that since he knows so much better than I do and has so much more time on his hands, then he can do the damn shopping and cooking while I am working at my damn job.  If I weren't in such a forgiving mood, I'd tell him to shove the receipt where the sun don't shine and back the fuck off, and probably more that isn't remotely printable here.

Tl;dr:  I have no idea what "extreme" measures you are considering.  But the worst thing you can do is approach this assuming your way is the "right" way and it is her job to see the light and comply.  The only way your budget and marriage will succeed long-term is if both of you fully buy into the same plan, whatever that might be.   

*[I will stay out of the bra discussion -- I have a few that I keep for a long time, but I know other bustier women complain that the elastic stretches and they need replacement more frequently than you'd think.  And poor bras + busty = actual back damage, so I'd tread very lightly here.]

[Laura33]

But, I am looking for strategies from people who also weren't able to convince their SO to spend wisely.  Beyond discussions.

"Beyond discussions..."  What on earth are you referring to?

Beyond having further discussions to convince my wife.  I've tried that.  Most of what I've seen on this forum RE getting a SO on board is about candid discussions.  So, what if that doesn't work?

Well, then, you're fucked.

No, seriously.  There is no universe in which candid discussions fail, but some secret magic trick miraculously brings your wife around and you walk off into the frugal sunset hand in hand. 

[prognastat]

The rabbit she should have asked for your agreement on. It is one thing to without discussion buy something inanimate, however buying an animal that needs to be taken care of should have been a shared decision. If you bring this up and she says well I do/will do all the work involved I would respond saying that what if you wanted to take a trip, now you have to find a place to house another animal. If she is sick you will likely need to take care of it, if she falls ill you will be the one taking care of it etc. It isn't a decision that can only affect one party.

In relation to the spending more than necessary at the grocery store. Why not do the shopping? You have the time being retired, she will likely appreciate not having to do it and you will have complete control over what is bought. If you feel this wouldn't be good enough, maybe do more of the cooking along with that?

As for clothing honestly no clue if she doesn't buy in to the concept of spending only what you need to spend.

In the long run though if you can't convince her to compromise to a level you both agree on this is only going to lead to more problems down the line.

[Patches]

But, I am looking for strategies from people who also weren't able to convince their SO to spend wisely.  Beyond discussions.

"Beyond discussions..."  What on earth are you referring to?

Beyond having further discussions to convince my wife.  I've tried that.  Most of what I've seen on this forum RE getting a SO on board is about candid discussions.  So, what if that doesn't work?

Well, then, you're fucked.

No, seriously.  There is no universe in which candid discussions fail, but some secret magic trick miraculously brings your wife around and you walk off into the frugal sunset hand in hand.

Haha, no kidding... what have you done in the past when you lose an argument or fail to convince someone of something?  Not much you can do that wouldn't be considered at best extremely annoying or at worst extremely illegal.

 

[sailinlight]

The rabbit she should have asked for your agreement on.

In the long run though if you can't convince her to compromise to a level you both agree on this is only going to lead to more problems down the line.

By that same token, he should have asked agreement to retire early and know that by doing so the family would have to curtail expenses indefinitely.

[Malum Prohibitum]

I had my wife start reading MMM.  She quickly started cutting spending so quickly I had to say, "Whoa!  Hold up a minute!  That brings us joy and happiness and health . . ."

She converted quickly.  More so than stubborn me.

[Alenzia]

I was the one who spent time getting my husband on board with saving more, but I definitely started with examples of things that were more "my" spending than "his" spending. It moved towards things that we both spent money on together (eating out, movies out, entertainment), but I think if it had started with me asking him to curtail buying electronics or other things that bring him joy, it wouldn't have gone as smoothly. Pretty quickly, he came around and started finding ways to cut his own stuff down as well, because he's a team player and is on board with the goal of saving.

Does your wife like working? Is she resentful that you're not working while she is? I think had my husband quit his job and then started to tell me to buy the cheaper tomato sauce (that one hit close to home because I love my tomato sauces), I'd get pretty irritated. It's somewhat unfair, but the onus ends up being on the person trying to make a change in the relationship to do the extra legwork, at least in the beginning.

[retired?]

The rabbit she should have asked for your agreement on. It is one thing to without discussion buy something inanimate, however buying an animal that needs to be taken care of should have been a shared decision. If you bring this up and she says well I do/will do all the work involved I would respond saying that what if you wanted to take a trip, now you have to find a place to house another animal. If she is sick you will likely need to take care of it, if she falls ill you will be the one taking care of it etc. It isn't a decision that can only affect one party.

In relation to the spending more than necessary at the grocery store. Why not do the shopping? You have the time being retired, she will likely appreciate not having to do it and you will have complete control over what is bought. If you feel this wouldn't be good enough, maybe do more of the cooking along with that?

As for clothing honestly no clue if she doesn't buy in to the concept of spending only what you need to spend.

In the long run though if you can't convince her to compromise to a level you both agree on this is only going to lead to more problems down the line.

Thanks for the feedback.  Yep, the rabbit now adds to our costs when we want to travel.  We are fortunate enough to have a dog sitter for $15/night, but the rabbit adds $10 (I hope).  I was thinking what you wrote about food - do the buying myself.  That's a good idea.  We ate classico and no one complained.

[retired?]

I was the one who spent time getting my husband on board with saving more, but I definitely started with examples of things that were more "my" spending than "his" spending. It moved towards things that we both spent money on together (eating out, movies out, entertainment), but I think if it had started with me asking him to curtail buying electronics or other things that bring him joy, it wouldn't have gone as smoothly. Pretty quickly, he came around and started finding ways to cut his own stuff down as well, because he's a team player and is on board with the goal of saving.

Does your wife like working? Is she resentful that you're not working while she is? I think had my husband quit his job and then started to tell me to buy the cheaper tomato sauce (that one hit close to home because I love my tomato sauces), I'd get pretty irritated. It's somewhat unfair, but the onus ends up being on the person trying to make a change in the relationship to do the extra legwork, at least in the beginning.

she does like her job.  Just the other day she said she "loved it".  She just went back to work full-time in Jan 2016.

I do think there is some, call it, minimum standard of spending that she thinks is reasonable.  And, will do that regardless.  It's the back up savings that that allows it to some extent.  I'll never win some arguments - e.g. $40 haircuts (I cut my own), but she did start dying her hair herself a while back.

I'm thinking stuff like having her pay certain bills herself so the expense is more concrete to her.  e.g. Ann Taylor Loft.  Trying to separate spending so it's clear how much is her.  A "pie place" opened up a few months ago.  She buys from there regularly.  A cake place....ditto.

She was very cost conscious when we first married.  No debt and on top of things.

We have no debt, no mortgage and post-tax income is about 50k. 

[renata ricotta]

But, I am looking for strategies from people who also weren't able to convince their SO to spend wisely.  Beyond discussions.

"Beyond discussions..."  What on earth are you referring to?

Beyond having further discussions to convince my wife.  I've tried that.  Most of what I've seen on this forum RE getting a SO on board is about candid discussions.  So, what if that doesn't work?

Well, then, you're fucked.

No, seriously.  There is no universe in which candid discussions fail, but some secret magic trick miraculously brings your wife around and you walk off into the frugal sunset hand in hand.

+a million.  You are married to an adult human who gets to make her own decisions, even if you would have made different ones.  You have no legal, moral, or physical power to wield over her to force her to bend to your will other than verbal requests. 

Furthermore, your examples seem pretty small potatoes to me (other than perhaps bras, but ... dude.  That's a pretty damn personal decision).  I would be seriously peeved if my partner tried to micromanage my spending decisions to this degree (ESPECIALLY if I had a job and he didn't; that would turn into expletives pretty fast).  I can taste the difference between different kinds of pasta sauce, and can make a decision about whether the better taste is worth an extra dollar to me or not (what happens in someone else's taste buds is not relevant).  That is not the level of decision one should have to run by their spouse in an equal relationship.

(As an aside, if things like rabbit feed or $3/jar pasta sauce are the difference between "fine" financially and being "really thrown off," then you are NOT fine financially).

This is the very best "extreme" measure I can think of - take over all of the grocery shopping yourself so you can buy the brand of pasta sauce you prefer.  Not worth the $50 in potential annual savings?  Then also not worth harping over. 

[AZDude]

If she is working and you are not, its going to be difficult to tell her she needs to wear uncomfortable bras and eat bad tasting pasta sauce just to make sure you do not have to go back to work.

Just saying, look at it from her perspective.

[SKL-HOU]

I think you are making a huge deal out of small things.
How much does a rabbit cost you monthly? Pet sitting can add up but considering your wife still works, how often will you be going away for long periods anyway??
Pasta sauce, well, everyone has different taste buds. They may taste the same to you, but obviously not to her. Instead of turning sauce into a war, why don't you buy the kind you want and see if she likes it? If not, it is not a cost worth fighting for.
Bras... well yes they can get expensive but you are not a woman, you do not need a bra so you have no idea. Maybe try to come up with a compromise of x dollars per month on bras.

Really, if these are your biggest issues then I think you can relax. Besides by your admission, you quit without a thought. I would think quitting a job without a thought is much bigger issue than a rabbit, pasta sauce or bras.
And she is still working...

[Fish Sweet]

So what kind of discussions did you have before you retired?  How involved is/was she in developing/implementing the budget?  Might she be resentful that she is still working and you are not? 

I am obviously inferring a lot from a short summary, but I am guessing that your retirement has caused you to significantly change your approach to money.  If you never budgeted before but do now, my guess is that she has always bought the Monte Bene pasta sauce, and she's always bought bras when she needed/wanted them*, and that this has only become an issue -- something you noticed -- because now you're retired and money is tighter.  Basically, you have been expecting her to make a significant change in her spending habits, and it sounds like she is not making those changes.  So either she didn't understand what degree of changes would be necessary, or she doesn't think you need to cut back that much, or she is just flat-out not willing to comply with your plan if she has to make those sacrifices. 

All of that makes me wonder what conversations/understanding you had before you jumped -- and what conversations have you had since that time?  Did she not understand?  Did she understand but now that she's in it has decided that the finances are too tight and she's not willing to cut back that far?  Does she agree in principle but thinks the money should come from X or Y instead of "her" bras and preferred groceries?  The solution is more talking, not "extreme measures" that treat her like a noncompliant child.

If she is willing to consider changes, the food substitutions are the easiest thing.  My DH is more like your DW and likes specific brands of things like fancy OJ, and I resent paying brand-name price when there's no difference.  So when I find a cheaper version, we do a blind taste test.  If he can tell the difference and has a clear preference, we keep the brand name; if not, I buy the cheaper one.  But this only works if you are both communicating and willing to engage -- you can't spring it as a "gotcha!" without messing with your relationship.

FWIW, I buy $0.99 pasta sauce or make my own.  But if my DH was suddenly looking at every grocery receipt, criticizing my choices, and making helpful "suggestions" for how I could do it better, I would absolutely lose my shit.  If he were lucky and I were in a forgiving mood, I'd tell him that since he knows so much better than I do and has so much more time on his hands, then he can do the damn shopping and cooking while I am working at my damn job.  If I weren't in such a forgiving mood, I'd tell him to shove the receipt where the sun don't shine and back the fuck off, and probably more that isn't remotely printable here.

Tl;dr:  I have no idea what "extreme" measures you are considering.  But the worst thing you can do is approach this assuming your way is the "right" way and it is her job to see the light and comply.  The only way your budget and marriage will succeed long-term is if both of you fully buy into the same plan, whatever that might be.   

*[I will stay out of the bra discussion -- I have a few that I keep for a long time, but I know other bustier women complain that the elastic stretches and they need replacement more frequently than you'd think.  And poor bras + busty = actual back damage, so I'd tread very lightly here.]

This is an excellent post and I want to agree wholeheartedly with it.  Here on the MMM forums, there's a pretty strong sense of "our way is the best way" (for good reason!) and perhaps that's true... for us.  But out in the real world, grown adults (even the ones we're married to) get to make their own choices, and there's no faster way to alienate someone and put them off your way of thinking than treating them like a wayward child who just needs to bend to your decisions.

Micromanaging your wife's expenditures is not the way to go here.  MMM is something you promote with leading by example, and by showing how much better things are when you consume less, spend less, and focus on the human relationships that matter the most to you.  An example of this would be... getting the grocery shopping done (to your preferences) while your wife is working, having a great dinner on the stove and a clean house for her when she gets home, telling her what a great day you had, telling her with pride about the things you learned to DIY instead of outsourcing, the great deal you found for the thing you need, saying "Honey, I'm trying out some new recipes-- let me know what you think."  That these recipes might involve cheaper ingredients on sale, costing a fraction of your normal meal?  That fact you can share with her later.

I'm not necessarily saying that the only way forward is for you to become Cook/Housekeeper extraordinaire, but that's just one example of the kind of tangible, visible, and obvious benefit your wife can enjoy from you going MMM-- the kind that might inspire a similar sentiment in her too.  Change comes from within, and people only want to change when they're given good reasons to.

[MilesTeg]

But, I am looking for strategies from people who also weren't able to convince their SO to spend wisely.  Beyond discussions.

"Beyond discussions..."  What on earth are you referring to?

Beyond having further discussions to convince my wife.  I've tried that.  Most of what I've seen on this forum RE getting a SO on board is about candid discussions.  So, what if that doesn't work?

Electroshock therapy?

[renata ricotta]

Electroshock therapy?

Hypnosis? Waterboarding? Brainwashing?

[HPstache]

It's just my opinion, but if I were her it would drive me crazy that you are being so critical of my spending when I'm the one solely bringing in the money.  I think it's probably compounded by the fact that you have a lot of spare time to dwell on finances and overthink every little move she is making. 

Do you have a strict budget?  If you allocate say $400/mo for grocery, what does it matter if she buys the more expensive sauce vs. the cheaper as long as she is sticking to the budget?  One major thing that has worked for us is to allocated "free spending money" that each person gets at the beginning of the month which includes things like clothes in it.  Maybe if you know that she is using her free spending money for the clothes she buys then you will be less resentful about them.

[pbkmaine]

Take over the shopping and cooking.

[Noodle]

The successful financial conversion stories I am aware of follow one of two paths:

1. Frugal spouse shows spendy spouse MMM site or other resources coupled with a discussion of how great it would be to reach family goals (SAHP, freedom from work, family time together) through frugality. Spendy spouse is inspired and gets right on board.

You've already tried this and it hasn't worked (possibly because according to your story, leaving work was about increasing your personal happiness rather than meeting some goal you and your wife had already articulated.)

2. Frugal spouse, either after trying method one, or knowing spendy spouse well enough to realize method one isn't going to work in the first place, starts living the frugal life without making a big deal of it. Changes are made in places Spendy Spouse won't notice or care (car insurance, for instance), or to Frugal Spouse's personal life (biking to work, taking on chores so they won't be outsourced, etc.) Sometimes Spendy Spouse never does notice or care, but the family is still ahead of where it was before. In many cases, Spendy Spouse realizes through experiencing the frugal life that it's not as bad as they thought, and gets more enthusiastic.

So that's all you've got left. Method 2. I have never seen a case here where a Mustachian converted their spouse either through nagging or endless argument, but I HAVE heard several posters report that their marriages broke up over constant disagreement about money. Do with that what you will.

[inline five]

You are being ridiculous IMO. You will only resort to pushing her further away with your attitude.

$50 a year in extra spending? YGTBSM.

We buy more expensive pasta sauce now, upwards of $4.50/jar, it's excellent and you CAN taste the difference. We used to buy Prego or Classico (whichever was on sale).

[Ann]

I agree with other posters.  Lead by example: do the shopping and food preparation and make it tastier for cheaper.  And if your wife can tell the difference in pasta sauce, then spend the extra $50/year on sauce. 

I consider adopting animals a serious commitment, so it would make me very angry for a spouse to bring a new life into the household without consulting me.  Having said that, did you consult with your wife before quiting your job?  That would have greater financial impact on the family.

[Bee21]

I had an interesting conversation with a guy who sold his successful business and retired at 40. Within 2 years he divorced his wife as they were driving each other crazy. I suspect that she also took him to the cleaners as he is now working part time and building an other business. You don't want to be in this position. He was checking out a Riviera and told his current girlfriend, that see darling, if i stayed married i would be able to afford this boat. Ha. We were in stiches.

Take over the shopping and the cooking as you have plenty of time. Cook with the 60 c a can crushed tomatoes if this makes you happy. Agree on personal spending money and if your wife wants to spend hers on chinchillas or bra #125, it is none of your business. It is way cheaper than divorce. Chill.

Don't turn into a penny pinching cheap bastard, they are not sexy.

[mm1970]

- clothes....has a full closet, but still buys more.  I know I won't get too much sympathy from the ladies for this one, but she buys bras like they are going out of style.  I needed a new one.  That one didn't fit.....etc. etc.  Bras ain't cheap, so it adds up.  Looking forward to the responses to this part ; )

I'm a lady and you get sympathy from me on buying clothes if the existing ones fit and are in good condition.

She gets sympathy for the bra thing.  They are hard to fit.

Also, age, kids, time of month, etc...I'd like to have fewer items of clothing, but my weight fluctuates and things shift.

[Fireball]

The nagging never works. Try praise when she does do something frugal. My wife isn't completely on board so I usually will make a joke about it. For example, I want to eat out, but she wants to eat in. "Hey, look at you growing a little mustache! Wait until I tell the forum!" It's silly, but it keeps things light and also gives me a chance to tell her good job in my own way.

[horsepoor]

I'm kind of confused about the money situation. You quit your job, and then decided that you had enough stash to retire. But you also say your household income is 50K.  What are household expenses, and how much is coming from gains on your stash vs. your wife's income?

It seems to me that your wife might be on another board asking how she can get her husband to go back to work because she feels like she's shouldering it all and can't buy a bra without being criticized now.

Maybe ask her what a comfortable level of budgeting would be for her, then determine if it's practical for you to do something part time to support that.  Right now you're asking her to make all the changes to allow you to stay at home; I'd recommend a more equitable compromise.

[DTaggart]

So you didn't post a huge amount of information so I'm making some assumptions here, but it sounds to me like you two aren't doing a great job of communicating. It sounds a lot like you have unilaterally decided how you want your life to be and are surprised and upset that she doesn't just say "OK dear, whatever you say" and completely alter her behavior to suit you.

As others have mentioned, adopting an animal is a significant decision. The fact that she did this without consulting you indicates a big issue. It also isn't clear as to whether she was on board with your decision to stop working or if you just decided on your own. I mean it kind of sounds like she was perfectly happy with the way things were, then one day you up and decided to quit your job, and now you're telling her SHE has to cut back because YOU don't want to work. I would not respond well to such a situation.

You two really need to sit down and decide TOGETHER what you want your life to look like. That is likely going to require coming up with some kind of spending plan or budget. YOU need to be comfortable with the total dollars going out so you know that things are sustainable, but SHE needs to be comfortable with having the things she wants to have. You don't necessarily need to do the detailed $200/month on groceries, $100/month on clothes level, but something a long the lines of "Our income is $x, our fixed expenses are $y, so we can spend $z on other stuff." And let her decide the "other stuff" spending.

FWIW, my husband and I went through a similar process when I first decided I wanted to pursue FIRE. It has been a long, slow, process. I had to learn that I cannot control his behavior, and he had to learn there are some limits to spending. It took a lot of time, talking, and compromise, but we're mostly on the same page now. He will always spend more money than I do, and as much as that bugs me it is just part of the deal if I'm married to him. I've listened to him when he tells me what is important to him, and together we examine our budget, set our priorities, and find some middle ground we can both live with.

You are only one half of the marriage, and if you don't sincerely listen to what she has to say you guys will never get on the same page. You said "I've had discussions, but it's just not sinking in." To me that sounds more like you lectured her, and she still doesn't agree with you. Counseling might be worthwhile until you guys learn to communicate better, it helped my husband and I in this area considerably.

And seriously, if she is working and you are not, there is no reason to expect her to be doing all the shopping and cooking. If I were her, I'd be buying rabbits and expensive shit just to spite you :)

[Raenia]

You say you think your finances are ok as is if you cut back spending.  I assume that means you think you'd be ok to both be FIRE'd on your current savings, with the spending cuts you want to impose.  But, your wife is still working, and you mentioned wanting to do something to keep busy as well.  Why don't you calculate how much additional nest egg you'd need to sustain the lifestyle your wife is comfortable with, and put any savings you have from her paycheck, as well as anything you pick up to keep yourself busy, toward that goal?  You quit your job pretty precipitously, without consulting your wife, and now you're expecting her to adapt to only one paycheck.  That's not really fair to her - you moved the goalposts without asking her first, and are expecting her to go along with it.  Even part time work or some kind of side hustle would show her that you're not putting the whole burden on her.  Not to mention, the conversations are likely to go a lot better if you've got some skin in the game, as it were.  Show her that it's not all about her changing to give you the lifestyle you want, and that you're willing to compromise to give her some of what she wants too.

[The Fake Cheap]

Sorry nothing to add but I had to laugh because I also had the exact same Classico expereince myself tonight.  I came home from work, and my wife had made supper, pasta, and then I saw some fancy pasta sauce container, checked the receipt and.....$5.49!!!! I reminder her that we had Classico on hand bought on sale for something like $2.  Her excuse, as usual, was that she didn't check what was on hand, and that she thought our toddler who is a very fussy eater might like this one for some reason.

[Ann]

Do you think you would both be FIRE if your wife just cut spending?  I think you said income was $50,000.  Is this wife's salary or her salary plus investment income?  Because if it is wife's salary, then the net income has to be about $30,000  What is the extra $30,000 in spending?  It has to be more than bras and sauce. 

[Dicey]

Laura33, I love the way you think, write and swear!

To OP, if this bothers you, you need to be the change you seek. Perfecting your own scratch made recipe that you can yourself with home-grown tomatoes and spices is cheaper still and better for your palate, physique, budget and relationship.

For everyone who is interested in more on this topic, please refer to this excellent thread. It is stickied in the Ask A Mustachian (AAM) section:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-convert-your-so-to-mmm-in-50-awesome-steps/

[former player]

As well as taking over the cooking (from scratch, so much better than the jars and a tomato sauce for pasta is dead easy and can be customised any way you like) and the cleaning (leave the rabbit care to your wife: that was a dick move on her part to buy it without consulting you - although there is some reason behind the rabbit (children leaving home?)), you could take over the laundry too - I bet if your wife's clothes were constantly clean (and mended) with her favourites at the front of the wardrobe she would want fewer of them.

Bras last much longer if hand washed in cool water and hung to dry.  Just saying.  And if you wife is having trouble with fit, look up how to fit a bra correctly and offer to wield a tape measure for her.

[Mezzie]

After bills and retirement accounts are paid, my husband and I each get an equal weekly allowance (food, gas, entertainment) and an equal monthly deposit into our individual savings accounts. My husband spends 100% of his. I spend maybe 20% of mine. The fact that our accounts are separate and the necessary payments are already made means our spending habits can continue being wildly different without annoying the other. On the budget, our allowances are fixed expenses, and when I do something like Uber Frugal February, it's my money I'm saving extra of (though I have also cut some monthly bills allowing us to invest more).

For household purchases like a replacement couch or a new pet, there's an account for that, and we agree on the expenditure before using it.

The result is, when there's something expensive coming up, like a show or plants for spring or other things I enjoy, I have the money on hand. My husband generally has to dig into his savings for things he wants that come up suddenly. He has gotten better at saving up for expensive things that are recurring prices, though.

We're very different when it comes to money, and this system has kept the peace. My husband's spending style reminds me to enjoy the moment; mine reminds him it's important to plan for the future. We really balance each other out quite well.

My point is that maybe you don't need to convert so much as agree upon a system that is fair for you both. I would be uncomfortable retiring before my husband, personally; if we manage to cut the cord early, I think it would be fun to do together.

[golden1]

FWIW, I buy $0.99 pasta sauce or make my own.  But if my DH was suddenly looking at every grocery receipt, criticizing my choices, and making helpful "suggestions" for how I could do it better, I would absolutely lose my shit.  If he were lucky and I were in a forgiving mood, I'd tell him that since he knows so much better than I do and has so much more time on his hands, then he can do the damn shopping and cooking while I am working at my damn job.  If I weren't in such a forgiving mood, I'd tell him to shove the receipt where the sun don't shine and back the fuck off, and probably more that isn't remotely printable here.

This +1

If you want her to change her habits, either enable her by using your free time to shop or prepare pasta sauce yourself.  Trying to micromanage her expenses is demeaning, and a sure fire way towards fostering resentment. 

So my recommendations for "extreme" methods is to be the change you want to see in the world.  Model the behavior you want her to emulate, and remind her that you are on her side and you are in this together. 

[Playing with Fire UK]

I've had discussions, but it's just not sinking in.  I'll provide some background below, but my question is:

Has anyone resorted to (what might be considered) extreme measures to curtail your SO's spending?

Some basic recent examples that I didn't agree with:

 - bought a rabbit.  Cost and hassle are more than dealing with our dog.  I think she realizes this now, but it's a little late.

 - pasta sauce.  We were out.  I asked what kind she usually buys.  Says Monte Bene.  I see it is $4.48/jar.  I point that out.  She says she only buys it when it's on sale.  I asked what the sale price is....answer $3.48....."it tastes better".  I bought Classico for $2.12 and think it tastes fine.  Over a year, since we eat pasta weekly, that could run to about $50-60 annually.  Not much, but geez, I'd never notice the taste diff.  I want to keep my $50-60.

 - clothes....has a full closet, but still buys more.  I know I won't get too much sympathy from the ladies for this one, but she buys bras like they are going out of style.  I needed a new one.  That one didn't fit.....etc. etc.  Bras ain't cheap, so it adds up.  Looking forward to the responses to this part ; )

Did you ask about why she wanted the rabbit and what need it is fulfilling? Does she like the dog?

How often are you making dinner for her? How often is this a special dinner? If special food is important to her how is this need being met?

How often do you tell her that she looks great? Does she feel good about her body? Has she had a proper bra fitting? Is it definitely fit or could it be style? How often do you tell her how great she looks in said bras?

Try to find out what need she is trying to meet; money is one way to meet her needs, there may be another.

[NoStacheOhio]

I have nothing constructive to add on convincing your spouse to go along with what you want.

I will, however, say that making your own sauce is fucking awesome.

My wife is Italian, and basically won't eat red sauce that isn't homemade. I jokingly threaten to buy Ragu every now and then.

I haven't run the numbers, but even if it costs the same as the stuff on the shelf, it's more fun and better tasting to make it. We get a big loaf of bread and basically that's our Sunday. We can it in Ball jars, and it's a bunch of easy dinners.

[oldmannickels]

smh moneybags over here talking about how they only buy classico

[mamagoose]

You could recategorize "bras" as an "entertainment" expense and just enjoy your evenings that much more.

[Laura33]

After bills and retirement accounts are paid, my husband and I each get an equal weekly allowance (food, gas, entertainment) and an equal monthly deposit into our individual savings accounts. My husband spends 100% of his. I spend maybe 20% of mine. The fact that our accounts are separate and the necessary payments are already made means our spending habits can continue being wildly different without annoying the other.

Mezzie, I think we married the same guy.  :-)  And not surprisingly, we follow a similar "allowance" system, so I can be confident we are saving enough, and he can buy the guys lunch at work and all that stuff.  My ways would have had us FIRE'd already -- but then I'd also be FIRE'd alone, because DH was just flat-out not willing to come all the way over to the dark side, and trying to force him to give up the spendy stuff he loves would have made him miserable, turned me into "mom" instead of "wife," and ended the marriage.  The money isn't worth it if it costs you the people you love. 

[honeybbq]

If she is working and you are not, its going to be difficult to tell her she needs to wear uncomfortable bras and eat bad tasting pasta sauce just to make sure you do not have to go back to work.

Just saying, look at it from her perspective.

Agree. If someone told me not to buy the pasta sauce I like (when I buy it on sale) because it cost a buck more - they would not get to have dinner with me.

This stuff is small potatoes.

[Mezzie]

After bills and retirement accounts are paid, my husband and I each get an equal weekly allowance (food, gas, entertainment) and an equal monthly deposit into our individual savings accounts. My husband spends 100% of his. I spend maybe 20% of mine. The fact that our accounts are separate and the necessary payments are already made means our spending habits can continue being wildly different without annoying the other.

Mezzie, I think we married the same guy.  :-)  And not surprisingly, we follow a similar "allowance" system, so I can be confident we are saving enough, and he can buy the guys lunch at work and all that stuff.  My ways would have had us FIRE'd already -- but then I'd also be FIRE'd alone, because DH was just flat-out not willing to come all the way over to the dark side, and trying to force him to give up the spendy stuff he loves would have made him miserable, turned me into "mom" instead of "wife," and ended the marriage.  The money isn't worth it if it costs you the people you love.

Possibly! Mine even enjoys buying the guys at work lunch. Hmmm. :p

Really, though, my husband has a generous spirit, and I would hate to squash it. I like to think I'm generous, too, but I always do the math first. He just gives. I love that about him.

[galliver]

And here I thought Classico was the fancy sauce...;)

I don't think I can articulate that the best "extreme measure" to take is to lead by example any better than posters above, especially Laura33, Alezia, Noodles.

A note on wardrobe/clothes shopping: women who have followed Marie Kondo's method and/or reduced to a capsule wardrobe and written about the experience have often noted that they had closets full of things that didn't fit (or didn't fit well), were a little bit worn or just not liked as much anymore but "still good", and so forth that they were keeping "just in case". I've never had what I'd consider a huge wardrobe, nor do I want one, but even so I've run into the issue of "I have all these clothes but nothing to wear". I thought the laundry suggestion was on point, because I've noticed that sometimes, an urge to go shopping means all my favorite clothes are in the wash...but once they're back, I'm good.

Additionally, if she's feeling pressure to not spend as much, she might be getting items of low quality that stretch out, fade, and become unattractive quickly. This especially applies to bras (especially for busty ladies)--if this is the case (and only you and your wife know that), a sizable giftcard to a NICE bra boutique (NOT VS) might be the fix. Though they are still not a buy-it-for-life item because elastic does stretch out eventually no matter how good it is to start.

One last note, I find that people who make posts like these "Look at my spouse's ridiculous spending!" never say anything about what *they* spend money on (because it's definitely not ridiculous, right?). What have you bought in the last 6 months?

[renata ricotta]

....
One last note, I find that people who make posts like these "Look at my spouse's ridiculous spending!" never say anything about what *they* spend money on (because it's definitely not ridiculous, right?). What have you bought in the last 6 months?

Right. OP, do you buy the very cheapest version of all products 100% the time, or do you sometimes have brand preferences that lead you to pay a little extra? Maybe you can't tell the difference between pasta sauces, but I'm willing to bet there are plenty of products where you think the very cheapest store brand tastes bad or doesn't work as well. I can't tell the difference between Coke and store-brand cola, but I can sure as hell tell the difference between good quality orange juice and the off-brand, so I either pay $4-5 for a carton of OJ or go without. It would be silly of me to insist my partner drink off-brand diet coke just because I personally can't taste the difference, while imposing my own preferences.

[Hall11235]

What did it for us was a discussion of debt. My DW saw that I was crushing my student loans faster than she (with her father's help) was. I pointed out to her the grim reality that if they kept up with the normal payment plan, her father would be almost 80 by the time that ended.

I also showed her my budget sheet and created for her a simpler version that she could access on her phone (the blessed GoogleDrive, everyone). We review our budgets together every week. It has become something of a ritual for us.

It was super important to me that I feel like I was NOT forcing her to do this. I just had a conversation with her and gave her some tools to track her spending. I made it clear to her that as long as she paid her (income adjusted) portion of the rent, her money was her own; I was just suggesting ways to optimize it.

[Kiwi Fuzz]

My suggestion would be try not to make it about money. Strange suggestion, I know, but hear me out.

Before MMM I had resigned myself to working to 70 and never owning a home/property. I didn't think it was possible. Now that I know it can be, if I work at it, I feel motivated to cut out mindless spending.

You've mentioned that she enjoys her job, which is wonderful for her, but she might not always enjoy it. Toxic coworkers and bosses do happen. What would she do if she started to dislike, or even hate, her job? Could she up and quit?

More so than fear mongering, though, I would try to figure out what's important to her. My priority is stability and security. To know that I don't have to move for the 22nd time in my life (no exaggeration) once I get into a home that I own (really, I'd be slowly buying it from the bank, but anyway) would be so much better than new bras every 2 months.

On the topic of bras, too, you might subtly mention that you noticed some research that proved they're only cosmetic fashion accessories. Sales people tell customers that bras wear out every 6 months but I haven't found this to be the case unless the band (the bit that goes around the ribs) is mostly lace. She may think that she needs to replace them often to reap some (false) benefit. That said, I wear them for fashion reasons these days as I'm otherwise self conscious.

Also, people don't notice if you wear the same outfit often. You could introduce her to the idea of a 'work uniform' - posing it as saving her time and decision fatigue rather than making it about money. This might have a higher initial cost, when she picks out the uniform and gets 5 of everything, but it should save time and money down the road as she'll have less incentive to impulse buy clothing for work - if she likes the idea which, admittedly, she may not but it's worth a shot.

I also second the suggestion that you could pick up the grocery shopping, meal planning and cooking. You can get the best price and hone a skill as well as likely win points for taking up these chores.

What has helped my stress level and my spouse's understand is making it a conversation about our lives together - about what we value, our financial goals and how we want to spend our time (not me at the office for another 40 years). I hope this is helpful and I wish you the best of luck convincing her.

Edited: Typos

[inline five]

I recommend Soma for bras. Throw out all the old stuff that doesn't fit or feels bad and get a few choice ones from Soma. Yes they are expensive but you get quality vs quantity. Have your wife go in for a fitting.