Extreme Measures (to get your SO on board)

[Iplawyer]

Was thinking further.  I don't know how old the usual reader of MMM may be, and in particular the respondents to my original post. 

But, marriage can be a long haul.  Decades.  3-6 decades.  And, over that time, people change.  I'm speaking to those that said something like "you had an agreement, a contract ......you changed.".  We both changed.  She stopped being frugal and I stopped being one who was willing to exchange high pay for high stress.

People change.  Even married people.  The main significant change I've observed is one person in the couple becoming very religious.  Two couples come to mind.  My sister and my BIL.  And, when I mentioned this observation with my MIL in the room, she replied "I guess that's probably what I did to your FIL".

To me, the religious one is a biggie.  That's a fairly large philosophical viewpoint and you have people changing their views on it.....and expecting their SO to go with the flow.  (to those who think 'so what', I'd argue you've never been around a strongly religious person).

So, to those who feel they are now perfectly aligned with their partner, know that this too can change.

I know very few married couples that are "perfectly aligned" with their partners even after decades of marriage.  I've been married longer than you, and I'm not in perfect alignment with my husband.  But we are aligned in our general values in life including our respect for one another.  And neither of us would try and ferret out what savings or net worth is attributed to what partner.  We did it as a team - our retirement will be a team effort - and both of us have needs and desires that will be met.  That is because we love and respect each other.   

[Gimesalot]

I guess that you could describe my situation as similar to yours.  My DH and I have been together for 11 years.  For the first year and a half, I made almost no money.  During that time, he supported me and even gave me money to buy new fancy clothes instead of the thrift store stuff.  After I finished my engineering degree, I started earning as much as he did, and eventually I out paced him.  Now I earn about 3 times as much. 

When we met, we were both spendy pants and about 8 years into my career, I decided that I wanted to stop spending and start saving a lot more.  All of a sudden, my spending dropped by a huge amount, his did not.  Luckily, we have always had separate accounts so we avoided an issue there.  He is still more spendy than I am, but he is starting to come around to my way of seeing the world.  He still spends more than I would like, but it is his money.  He works hard, his job is stressful, and he finds fulfillment in spending money.  Just because he makes less doesn't mean that he doesn't work as hard, or is less stressed. 

In the end, I have save 98% of the money for FIRE.  He has not raised children or had any other break in employment, he just doesn't like saving for savings sake.  It's still OUR money, 50/50, and although we have had some arguments over the FIRE budget (we added a $100 fun money per month for just him), we have been able to agree that we both don't want to work and that our happiness is depended on us quitting our jobs.

You really need to sit down and discuss this with your wife.  You have both messed up.  You retired without discussing it with her, and she spends more than she makes.  Call it even with the screw ups and start fresh.  You have an issue in front of you: you can't afford your current lifestyle.  You need to approach it as a team and ALL options must be on the table: you going back to work, her cutting back on her personal spending (bras and bunnies, not pasta sauce).

[charis]

You completely cut out and ignored my post about being the higher earner, made some unrelated comments about pasta sauce, and were just plain rude.  I've been married for 10 years, together for almost 20.  We've both changed A LOT.  And we are certainly not, nor have we ever been, "perfectly aligned" about everything.  We've also been in counseling and it was great, we could probably use more.  You clearly only want advice that you agree with.  That's not really how this works.

[Kansas Terri]

Draw up a budget for both of you. Allot x number of dollars for food, her clothes, your clothes, etc. Because someday you will want to retire, and it will tick her off beyond belief if it gives you more time to count her underwear!  So, instead of counting what she has, give her a budgeted amount on what she can spend. And you go on one as well, or she will feel picked on.  Isn't the main point spending, anyways? It isn't what she HAS, it's what she SPENDS!

One way to justify it is to say that you want to see if you can live on your retirement income, which will be lower than what your income is now. And tell her that you would like to retire someday, preferably early. And retirement should be planned for.

But don't count her underwear again. It will make her doubt the wisdom of you retiring early.

[Laura33]

Was thinking further.  I don't know how old the usual reader of MMM may be, and in particular the respondents to my original post. 

But, marriage can be a long haul.  Decades.  3-6 decades.  And, over that time, people change.  I'm speaking to those that said something like "you had an agreement, a contract ......you changed.".  We both changed.  She stopped being frugal and I stopped being one who was willing to exchange high pay for high stress.

People change.  Even married people.  The main significant change I've observed is one person in the couple becoming very religious.  Two couples come to mind.  My sister and my BIL.  And, when I mentioned this observation with my MIL in the room, she replied "I guess that's probably what I did to your FIL".

To me, the religious one is a biggie.  That's a fairly large philosophical viewpoint and you have people changing their views on it.....and expecting their SO to go with the flow.  (to those who think 'so what', I'd argue you've never been around a strongly religious person).

So, to those who feel they are now perfectly aligned with their partner, know that this too can change.

Sigh.  OK, I'll bite again.

The "agreement" I mentioned (the one that you "unilaterally" changed -- I know how much you love that word) was not that you would always work in a high-stress, high-pay job -- it was that when you quit said job, it was temporary, and you would find another job.  You appear to have decided that you are now retired without actually consulting (or even informing) your wife.  This does not tend to play well with spouses.  My DH has standing permission to quit; he moved here for me, so it's only fair.  He does not have standing permission to just decide he never wants to work again -- that requires an actual conversation and agreement on the budgetary/lifestyle changes that will be necessary.

FWIW, coming up on 21 years here.  And DH and I have never, ever seen eye to eye about money (if he agreed with me, we'd both be FIRE'd by now; if I agreed with him, we'd be working until we're 70+ and driving a Maserati).  But we both approach our relationship with the assumption that we both need to be happy, and that the other's needs and concerns are just as important as our own.  And that means we don't make major life decisions without discussing it with the other first.

You can dismiss the "psychology" all you want.  But the reality is, you don't have a money issue, you have a relationship issue.  You married a smart woman; she knows how to live on $50K/yr if she wants to -- you said it yourself, she used to be plenty frugal.  She just doesn't want to.  So you're wondering how you can make her, and not realizing that you can't, short of divorce -- and the more you push, the more she will resist.  If you really want to make headway, start with figuring out the why -- the "how" is easy once you both agree with the plan.

Also, what shelivesthedream said.

[BFGirl]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just have to say the ex and I once had a huge argument because I picked up $1.29 pasta sauce on the way home rather than $.99 pasta sauce.  Notice I said "ex".

[onehair]

Nodding head in agreement with shelivesthedream and Laura33.  I had the money discussion with my not so great SO even tried to get him on board he isn't.  So I decided to FIRE for myself in spite of him.  Now as for the OP I also do agree they need to talk about what's important to each of them I hope they work it out.  Once my fund is built up to my satisfaction I will be having an ex myself though the main reason will not be money but it will be in the top 10.  But best of luck to the OP.

[Kansas Terri]

I was seeking suggestions on how to arrange finances (who does what, what sort of account set-ups work best, etc.) to highlight where there is waste.  I think she'd agree with me on most, but she doesn't see it right now.

My Mother died recently: she and my Dad were married for 65 years.

Dad told a story that illustrates how they handled their lives together. back when they were young and broke, they were grocery shopping and Mom put a package of washclothes into the cart.

After thinking it over, my Dad said "you can buy what you like, but this is all of the money we have for grocery shopping." Mom quietly put the washcloths back.

Over the next few weeks, the washcloths re-appeared, one at a time. But, she bought the food they needed and Mom stayed n the budget. So Dad said nothing.

Forget about the waste. The 2 of you WILL disagree about what waste is, Instead think abut the bottom line.
And, you might try taking to your wife about money. Something along the line of "our finances have changed. Can we work together on a new budget for finances?" keeping in mind, of curse, that she might consider what you buy to be waste. We all have different ideas of what is waste

[Mikila]

Golly, you are retired. How about you use your plethora of time to learn how to make from-scratch pasta sauce that tastes better than the store bought stuff?

This could be a win-win.

Let her buy the bras.  Most women (around 80%) wear the wrong size.  This is the correct way to measure.  Help her out here.  Measure under the bust.  Measure the bust.  Under bust measurement is the band size.  Full bust measurement minus underbust is the cup size.  1=A, 2" = B etc...  Now she needs  a whole new bra wardrobe.  You're welcome.