Worried about the social consequences of the FIRE lifestyle

[startingout]

Does anyone else worry about the long-term social consequences of this lifestyle?

I live in a HCOL and all of my friends have "good" jobs or family money. They're all humble, non-flashy people, but have growing penchants for fine dining and travel. I don't want to lose all of my friends decades from now, when they're frequently eating out at nice restaurants or going on cruises together. It's easy to suggest, "Make different friends," but some of these people I've known for decades, so they're not exactly replaceable. I'm also constantly meeting people, but it's really hard for people to cross over from mere acquaintances to friends as adults. Furthermore, I can't just nibble on an appetizer while everyone else at the table is feasting on steaks and seafood; it would make them uncomfortable enough to gradually stop inviting me. We're also getting to the age where friends occasionally pick up the tab for the group. I would never be able to afford that on my FIRE budget.

Leaving this area is also not an option for me. Both my spouse and I have tons of roots in this area, so we promised each other we'd never leave when we got married.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

Be responsible for organizing social gatherings that are more compatible with your preferred spending, then.

One doesn't need to go out to a fancy restaurant with $200/head plates to enjoy an evening - pot lucks at someone's house, around a firepit, are just as enjoyable and, in my opinion, more so due to the lack of push to "go somewhere else," and the general lack of restaurant clatter and noise.

Build the habits now, and you shouldn't have to worry about them running off to fancy restaurants in the future for more than the infrequent trip.

[newco]

How do you respond nowadays when your friends ask you to go out and do things that are not in your budget?  My belief is that friends are not forever, and that they come and go at various stages of your life, at least that is how it has been for me. 

All of my friends know that I am frugal (most call me cheap) so there are times when me and my partner are not invited out because they know that we would say no due to the cost.  I'm starting to see it more with my family as well.  But the flipside is everyone around me has self made problems that stem from living beyond their means.  I'd rather be in control of my life and money and turn down an event every once in a while because it is too expensive, rather than be bothered with what others think. 

[Raenia]

If you genuinely enjoy and get good value out of fine dining or travel, then build those into your FIRE budget. Lots of people around here choose to work a little longer and go for a more Fat-FIRE, with some extra fluff in the budget to accommodate expensive hobbies or travel. If that's what's valuable to you, then plan for it.

If you don't feel those things are good value for you, then make a point of inviting your friends to cheap/free occasions that you do enjoy more. Start doing that now, don't wait for retirement to get them in the habit of seeing you at different kinds of events. Then even if you choose to start turning down invites to fancy dinners, you'll have an expectation of seeing them somewhere else. Bonus that it'll be events that you actually enjoy, whether it be museums, parks/gardens, concerts, or just pot-lucks at home.

[startingout]

How do you respond nowadays when your friends ask you to go out and do things that are not in your budget?

I should have been more clear than "fine dining." My friends rarely suggest anything out of my budget now. But the standard mid-range restaurant meal for you and a partner, with some shared appetizers and a drink or two, really add up. No one wants to meet up for a fast causal meal, much less a pot luck. A museum outing inevitably comes with a $20 parking fee and then $30+ family meal. When we go to each other's houses, the host provides all the food and drinks, including takeout.

If you genuinely enjoy and get good value out of fine dining or travel, then build those into your FIRE budget. Lots of people around here choose to work a little longer and go for a more Fat-FIRE, with some extra fluff in the budget to accommodate expensive hobbies or travel. If that's what's valuable to you, then plan for it.

This might be what I end up doing, working for 10-15 additional years.

[Raenia]

If you genuinely enjoy and get good value out of fine dining or travel, then build those into your FIRE budget. Lots of people around here choose to work a little longer and go for a more Fat-FIRE, with some extra fluff in the budget to accommodate expensive hobbies or travel. If that's what's valuable to you, then plan for it.

This might be what I end up doing, working for 10-15 additional years.

You need to work an extra 10 years to cover an extra meal out once a month? Even if you really were going to $200/head places, that math doesn't feel right.

Edit to fix quotes.

[Dee18]

You mention:  "When we go to each other's houses, the host provides all the food and drinks, including takeout."

If you learn to cook a few good meals you can save a lot by actually cooking food for your friends, instead of ordering takeout.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

But the flipside is everyone around me has self made problems that stem from living beyond their means.  I'd rather be in control of my life and money and turn down an event every once in a while because it is too expensive, rather than be bothered with what others think.

Indeed, it's amazing how broke some people are despite very substantial incomes, because no matter what you can make, you can always manage to spend more.

My friends rarely suggest anything out of my budget now.

Ok, so this is quite theoretical at this point?  I'd worry about it when it happens...

When we go to each other's houses, the host provides all the food and drinks, including takeout.

So if you're retired, be that person and cook large, efficient, inexpensive and tasty meals.  Have a donation jar for food costs.

[vand]

I have never felt I needed to justify the amount of time and money I'm willing to go out for group dinners, etc. But then I never did go out so often.  And if that means I don't get invited out so much, then I just aint that bothered about it.
Personally I think it's more fun to invite your friends around and have a nice BBQ or host dinner yourself. Even (or especially) during winter.. 
But people just have this stupid idea that socialising always means having to go out and being a good consumer.

[Villanelle]

You say you can't just get an appetizer because it would make everyone so uncomfortable that they'd stop inviting you.  Is that just supposition, or has this come up?  I can't imagine being edged out of a group based on my ordering decisions, especially if I was actually ordering something but just a cheaper/smaller option.  Maybe you need to give your friends a little more credit.  I've been in that situation (both as part of the more spendy cohort with a frugal person who often just ordered a cup of soup and drank water) and as the "I'll just have water and an appetizer" person.  No one cared.  It changed nothing.  No one was edged out.  It was 100% a non-issue. 

You can also try managing the plans somewhat.  Don't try to take over everything, but occasionally suggest a BYO picnic on the park or outdoor movie night.  Or a breakfast out instead of a dinner, or meeting at a little hole-in-the-wall, cheap-but-fun restaurant.  Or going for a hike or walking dogs at a local shelter, or attending a cool free event at the library.  Or getting together on a Sunday afternoon to do a batch cook together, with everyone splitting the grocery costs and leaving with a dozen prepared meals, after having spent a few hours enjoying each other's company.

Also, I agree with Raenia that  it doesn't make sense that you'd need to work an axtra decade or more in order to be able to afford an occasional dinner out.  Yes, maybe you pad your budget by an extra $1000/yr for these social activities.  That possibly makes sense but in what universe is that 10 years of additional saving *AND* compounding?  That's only an extra $25k saved, which most people could do in a year or two, maximum. 

[startingout]

Ok, so this is quite theoretical at this point?  I'd worry about it when it happens...

It's mostly based on a recent conversation I had with a friend, who I have plans to meet up with soon. I mentioned that I had grabbed dinner with an unemployed acquaintance not long ago. The acquaintance suggested looking for inexpensive fast food because he was on a tight budget, but I offered to treat him to a meal of his choosing because I wanted something satisfying after a long week for the both of us (it ended up being a fast casual meal). My first friend replied something along the lines of, "That's why I don't hang out with unemployed people anymore."

A similar conversation with a different friend years ago also went in that direction. I had asked if people's discretionary budgets would come in between friendships, and he responded, "Yes, of course."

Finally, the group check that my spouse picked up a few weeks ago totaled over $250. Not a bad sum for the number of people, but we went to a different place for dessert afterwards, so it was an expensive evening that we could only afford on 2 working incomes. None of the food we're eating is Michelin star stuff, but it adds up quickly.

I also hope to travel with friends on a fun vacation each year, separate or on top of the vacations I take with my immediate family. Up until now, we've been sharing hotel rooms to cut down on costs, but there may come a time when people don't want to do that anymore.

[kite]

Our friends come from a diverse socioeconomic group.  And frankly, it's the wealthy ones who spend the least amount of money on normal socializing. 
There's a winery near us that has a concert series, tickets are $10 each and everyone tailgates & brings a picnic.  Some bring fancy take-out things from a gourmet shop, but mostly it's homemade, so same cost as eating at home would be. The wine is not terribly expensive, and neither my spouse or I drink it, so it's a $20 excursion on every other Friday throughout the summer.. My friends with multiple homes, his & her Mercedes who are dripping in jewelry and globe trotting 5 months a year are the ones who got me to go to the $10/person concerts. 

It's my friend who's a barista making $50,000 who is going to professional ball games, shopping & redecorating as a hobby and will even fly to see her favorite bands. I have an easier time keeping up with my actual rich friends than with the one who is struggling to live like she's rich.

I think to worry is to borrow trouble from the future. 

You can arrange low and no-cost social outings, either with new friends or with the same friends. A long time friend invited me to join her hiking group. We go on day hikes once per week of about 3 miles or so.  The cost is just the gas to get there/back and we carpool the 5-10 miles.  With other groups of friends we do Tai Chi or Yoga in the park. ($5 each to the teacher) and even if we go for a coffee afterwards, there is no reason it needs to cost more than another $5.
We used to go to restaurants or bars or happy hours with friends. We also used to play poker.  But at a certain stage we eased away from those activities.  I quit drinking entirely. We've needed to shift our diets a bit as we got older, and other life demands meant late nights were no longer possible for most of us. The biggest cause was kids.  Those with kids wanted to be with them and suddenly the poker nights and happy hours were out. We could socialize at the pool. Or at the little-league game or the kid's recital.  Now that the kids are older we'll sometimes catch a live band or open mic at a nearby pub. But since we're not drinkers it's really inexpensive.  The socializing took care of itself.

[roomtempmayo]

Does anyone else worry about the long-term social consequences of this lifestyle?

I live in a HCOL and all of my friends have "good" jobs or family money. They're all humble, non-flashy people, but have growing penchants for fine dining and travel. I don't want to lose all of my friends decades from now, when they're frequently eating out at nice restaurants or going on cruises together.

Out of curiosity, how old are you?  This sounds like the late 20s urban professional dynamic.  If so, it doesn't last.

The first thing is that bars and restaurants start to kind of suck after awhile.  The food is over-salted meh, they're crowded, and they're loud.  When people start buying comfortable houses, the attraction of going out plummets.

The second thing is that having kids puts the kibosh on restaurants and travel.  Even if you don't have kids, people in your social group will.  Meeting at the park becomes the new happy hour.

And third, at some point you realize you need to take care of your body, which means not filling it full of restaurant food and wine all the time.  People start running together instead of eating out together.

I suspect most of what you're experiencing is a phase (we have jobs and money, yay!) that they'll pretty quickly grow out of when they have family responsibilities and comfortable private property.

[Dicey]

I volunteer at the library and at a thrift shop. I have made so many frugal friends and been given so many frugal opportunities through those groups that it was literally game changing.

[Villanelle]

Ok, so this is quite theoretical at this point?  I'd worry about it when it happens...

It's mostly based on a recent conversation I had with a friend, who I have plans to meet up with soon. I mentioned that I had grabbed dinner with an unemployed acquaintance not long ago. The acquaintance suggested looking for inexpensive fast food because he was on a tight budget, but I offered to treat him to a meal of his choosing because I wanted something satisfying after a long week for the both of us (it ended up being a fast casual meal). My first friend replied something along the lines of, "That's why I don't hang out with unemployed people anymore."

A similar conversation with a different friend years ago also went in that direction. I had asked if people's discretionary budgets would come in between friendships, and he responded, "Yes, of course."

Finally, the group check that my spouse picked up a few weeks ago totaled over $250. Not a bad sum for the number of people, but we went to a different place for dessert afterwards, so it was an expensive evening that we could only afford on 2 working incomes. None of the food we're eating is Michelin star stuff, but it adds up quickly.

I also hope to travel with friends on a fun vacation each year, separate or on top of the vacations I take with my immediate family. Up until now, we've been sharing hotel rooms to cut down on costs, but there may come a time when people don't want to do that anymore.

Someone wanting to go to a fast food restaurant or making others feel compelled to pay for their food (even if that pressure is created by the payer, not the recipient) is very different than ordering something cheap off the menu at a location everyone agrees upon, or even than requesting a quality, delicious, but less-expensive location than you usual fare.  I think you are over thinking this, or exaggerating in your mind the effects on friendship of being moderately frugal. No one cares what you order. 

[parkerk]

This is one of those "be the change you want to see in the world your friend group" kind of things. Start sowing the seeds now - suggest activities that are a little easier on the budget, start hosting get-togethers at your house, set up some kind of monthly book club/movie night/game session where you all trade off hosting, etc. Off the top of my head here's some suggestions:

• Movie night - if you truly have to pay for everything as host, popcorn and snacks are cheap
• Wine tasting night where everyone brings a bottle and you try them all, host supplies some nibbles
• Cocktail night - same as above, everyone makes a different type of drink and you try them all
• Hiking / beach day / picnic in the park
• Find local free festivals in your area to attend - people can spend as much or as little as they want
• Rotating dinner party - my friends used to do this, guests bring a side or appy and the host makes some kind of fancy main dish, then you take turns hosting
• For holidays, find a beach house or cabin on Airbnb that works out to a decent nightly rate and then trade off cooking dinners the nights you're there

Obviously all of this is dependent on your friends' willingness to partake in these activities but, again, if you start the push for them you might be surprised at how easy it is to get people on board.

If they're truly unwilling to try anything different than the usual spendy plans you're doing right now and you want to continue hanging out with them, you'll need to set aside a monthly or yearly budget for these activities and figure out how to limit it. There's nothing wrong with saying "sorry can't make it this time, but we're definitely in for the next one, let us know when!" If they care about you that should be enough to keep you on the invite list.

Not gonna lie though, from those comments they sound kind of judgy and small-minded if they can't be bothered to stay friends with people who are less well-off than them. We all have our values around money and it may very well reach the point where you have to take a hard look at how well their values line up with yours.

[clarkfan1979]

Does anyone else worry about the long-term social consequences of this lifestyle?

I live in a HCOL and all of my friends have "good" jobs or family money. They're all humble, non-flashy people, but have growing penchants for fine dining and travel. I don't want to lose all of my friends decades from now, when they're frequently eating out at nice restaurants or going on cruises together. It's easy to suggest, "Make different friends," but some of these people I've known for decades, so they're not exactly replaceable. I'm also constantly meeting people, but it's really hard for people to cross over from mere acquaintances to friends as adults. Furthermore, I can't just nibble on an appetizer while everyone else at the table is feasting on steaks and seafood; it would make them uncomfortable enough to gradually stop inviting me. We're also getting to the age where friends occasionally pick up the tab for the group. I would never be able to afford that on my FIRE budget.

Leaving this area is also not an option for me. Both my spouse and I have tons of roots in this area, so we promised each other we'd never leave when we got married.

I'm planning on having the same budget pre-FIRE and post-FIRE. Anything that I'm doing now I will be able to afford when I FIRE. If you have to have a reduction in lifestyle when you FIRE, I think you might be doing the math wrong. 

[Drink Coffee And Stack Money]

Ok, so this is quite theoretical at this point?  I'd worry about it when it happens...

It's mostly based on a recent conversation I had with a friend, who I have plans to meet up with soon. I mentioned that I had grabbed dinner with an unemployed acquaintance not long ago. The acquaintance suggested looking for inexpensive fast food because he was on a tight budget, but I offered to treat him to a meal of his choosing because I wanted something satisfying after a long week for the both of us (it ended up being a fast casual meal). My first friend replied something along the lines of, "That's why I don't hang out with unemployed people anymore."

So if you lost your job tomorrow your "friend" would drop you like a hot rock? I would suggest trying hard to make some new friends. I'm dumbfounded why anyone would want to associate with someone like this to begin with. I'll 1,000% guarantee I earn more than any of my friends and I'm happy to eat McDonalds and drink PBR if that's the suggested dinner. And if one of my friends were unemployed I'd be happy to help them out whenever I could, not turn my back on them.

[YttriumNitrate]

Does anyone else worry about the long-term social consequences of this lifestyle?

I live in a HCOL and all of my friends have "good" jobs or family money. They're all humble, non-flashy people, but have growing penchants for fine dining and travel. I don't want to lose all of my friends decades from now, when they're frequently eating out at nice restaurants or going on cruises together.

I've often found that the diminishing returns on vacations are steep. As an example, a I went on a trip with a few other couples to Hawaii. Most of the other couples stayed ocean front at some swanky hotel while my wife and I stayed a block back from the beach at a much more reasonable hotel. I think the difference in the rooms was about $400 a night. While the other people undoubtedly had nicer rooms, for 95%+ of the time we were awake we had the same experiences despite spending significantly different amounts.

So, basically you can still go on the cruises with your friends, but book the cheap interior cabin and don't buy the ridiculously overpriced package offered by the cruise.

[curious_george]

Hmmm...

I have never once been on a cruise, or went to a $30+ dollar per plate restaurant. For that matter I have never been on a typical vacation either.

My friends ride bikes and go for walks and play card games and go to cheap restaurants and whatnot.

If you're really worried about this I would just ask myself if these friends are really worth working a few extra years for or not.

If the answer is yes then keep working. If no then fine new friends if they drop you.

Your choice. Do what makes you happy, even if that isn't FIRE.

[Ron Scott]

Does anyone else worry about the long-term social consequences of this lifestyle?

I live in a HCOL and all of my friends have "good" jobs or family money. They're all humble, non-flashy people, but have growing penchants for fine dining and travel. I don't want to lose all of my friends decades from now

Give your friends the benefit of the doubt, don’t make assumptions about who’ll they’ll be in the future,  and most will live up to your better expectations.

I was actually surprised at the angle you took on the thread given the heading. It seems to me the most dire social consequences of FIRE are experienced by those who race to quit before they’re truly FI, without enough money to cope with significant financial challenges that can crop-up during long retirement periods. That is a more likely scenario than having friends turn out weird IMO.

[Zikoris]

No, because I don't have any interest in going to expensive restaurants or taking cruises. We have friends who do those things, but they also have other interests that are in line with ours, and those are the things we do together. Spendy people don't necessarily ONLY do spendy things, so just get together for the things that you want to.

I agree it would be weird to make plans to go for a nice dinner and then just order water or an appetizer, and I also would stop inviting a person like that to dinners. So don't do that.

[Freedomin5]

My first friend replied something along the lines of, "That's why I don't hang out with unemployed people anymore."

Your friends sound kind of mean.

What if you got injured and couldn’t work anymore? They wouldn’t be your friend anymore? What if you decided to FIRE to take care of elderly parents or young kids? They wouldn’t associate with you anymore?

Frankly, I don’t worry about this question at all. Some of my friends live in million dollar homes and have well-paying jobs. When we get together, we find something we can all enjoy and afford. That might include hanging out at my family’s lakeside cottage, or going on a day trip somewhere, etc.

Some of my friends are making minimum wage. When we get together, we find something we can all enjoy and afford. We could hang out at my family’s lakeside cottage, or go on a day trip that’s within both our budgets, etc.

I have dietary restrictions, so if they’re going to freeze me out because I’m ordering a side salad instead of a giant steak, then I’m not really interested in continuing the friendship.

Eating out at expensive restaurants and taking expensive cruises can’t be the only things your friends do for fun?

[Paper Chaser]

I also think this is mostly a phase. Going out to bars and restaurants slows way down when people start having kids. Typical travel can get to be an expensive hassle too when you suddenly have little ones and more stuff to bring along and limitations on what you might be able to do on a trip.

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable pulling the FIRE plug if an occasional splurge would sink my budget. If you can't afford an expensive dinner quarterly, or an extra trip every year or two, then you probably aren't prepared for things like random medical expenses or home repairs/rent increases  either.

It's not a complex issue. If you want to have it all (living in an HCOL, going on expensive trips, paying others to cook food for you, etc) then you're going to have to work longer to afford it. The more 'stuff' you want, the more you have to pay.

[rothwem]

I also think this is mostly a phase. Going out to bars and restaurants slows way down when people start having kids. Typical travel can get to be an expensive hassle too when you suddenly have little ones and more stuff to bring along and limitations on what you might be able to do on a trip.

Going out to bars and restaurants does taper off, but then it becomes expensive kids stuff.  My good friends really wanted to plan a trip to Disney this past summer, and aside from it sounding absolutely hellish and not fun, it was going to be $10,000 when airfare, hotels and meals were factored in.  I told him he was nuts, that the cost was too crazy.  He told me he's putting it on his HELOC, and that it's "just money" and we should "do it for the kids" for a "once in a lifetime experience for them".  I got super pissed and ended the conversation. 

I think the solution is taking the initiative and planning cheaper activities that are still fun, but that's not always easy.  Easy usually means expensive. 

[startingout]

Out of curiosity, how old are you?  This sounds like the late 20s urban professional dynamic.  If so, it doesn't last.

Mid-30s. Half of our friends have kids, and half do not. We host a lot of playdates and used to order pizza often, but that quickly added up, so we started cooking. However, it's a lot of people to cook for, including parents and kids from multiple families, while hosting at the same time.

Going out to bars and restaurants does taper off, but then it becomes expensive kids stuff.  My good friends really wanted to plan a trip to Disney this past summer, and aside from it sounding absolutely hellish and not fun, it was going to be $10,000 when airfare, hotels and meals were factored in.  I told him he was nuts, that the cost was too crazy.  He told me he's putting it on his HELOC, and that it's "just money" and we should "do it for the kids" for a "once in a lifetime experience for them".  I got super pissed and ended the conversation. 

I think the solution is taking the initiative and planning cheaper activities that are still fun, but that's not always easy.  Easy usually means expensive. 

Yeah, we know a family who went on a $20k Disney trip. Lucky for them, the grandparents, who also went along, paid for the entire thing.

[RetiredAt63]

Out of curiosity, how old are you?  This sounds like the late 20s urban professional dynamic.  If so, it doesn't last.

Mid-30s. Half of our friends have kids, and half do not. We host a lot of playdates and used to order pizza often, but that quickly added up, so we started cooking. However, it's a lot of people to cook for, including parents and kids from multiple families, while hosting at the same time.

Going out to bars and restaurants does taper off, but then it becomes expensive kids stuff.  My good friends really wanted to plan a trip to Disney this past summer, and aside from it sounding absolutely hellish and not fun, it was going to be $10,000 when airfare, hotels and meals were factored in.  I told him he was nuts, that the cost was too crazy.  He told me he's putting it on his HELOC, and that it's "just money" and we should "do it for the kids" for a "once in a lifetime experience for them".  I got super pissed and ended the conversation. 

I think the solution is taking the initiative and planning cheaper activities that are still fun, but that's not always easy.  Easy usually means expensive. 

Yeah, we know a family who went on a $20k Disney trip. Lucky for them, the grandparents, who also went along, paid for the entire thing.

That was very nice of the grandparents.  I'm a grandmother and I am never doing that.  I put $3000 into my grand-daughter's RESP every year instead.  Higher education in Canada is nothing near as expensive as it is in the US, but it isn't free.  An RESP is a much better investment in her future than a trip to an entertainment park.

[Loren Ver]

So leaving off the bits about whom you chose to associate with and how you chose to spend your time, I'll go right to answering the question as DH and I have handled it.

DH and I are CHEAP, sometimes we make it to up to frugal just to see how the water is :).  We also leanFIREd.  Actually we FIREd before hitting our number, but that's a different story.

We have friends all over the board from deep in medical and consumer debt to high paid professions (by midwest standards) that just keep getting bonuses and promotions.

So with that stage set we do meet with people over restaurant food, since that is *one* of the ways we engage with them.  I meet old friends for their birthdays and I pay their way.  We take our whole casual friend group out for dinner for the holidays when everyone is in town visiting family.  We pay for our whole family to eat out when they are in town, both sides, his and mine.  They each roll through at different times of the year and they both think having to cook is some kind of a burden since I cook every day (?!?!?!).  Uh okay, what ever. 

I've also been on vacation with some of my friends, it was fun!  Not someplace I would have picked, but the company was excellent.

So, knowing this was a thing we have been doing and were going to continue to do, we just planned for it.  It's not like it is some kind of a big deal or anything.  It was a drop in the bucket of our overall plan, even if it can add up some years.

All choices have consequences, not all consequences are negative, they are just responses to your decisions. 

I also have friend groups that I do not eat out with, we meet up and do things like volunteer and accomplish things.  That expectation was set early on and we get stuff done.  Not great when you are having a lazy day haha!  I also have another one where we get together to do creative stuff and problem solving, again not great to mix with over priced food.

So, go forth and determine what you want your life to look like, don't just settle for the life that you've been dealt thus far.

Good to be thinking about these things now!
Loren

[parkerk]

Out of curiosity, how old are you?  This sounds like the late 20s urban professional dynamic.  If so, it doesn't last.

Mid-30s. Half of our friends have kids, and half do not. We host a lot of playdates and used to order pizza often, but that quickly added up, so we started cooking. However, it's a lot of people to cook for, including parents and kids from multiple families, while hosting at the same time.

So there's a question then - how did these friends start reacting when some had kids and some didn't? Did one group freeze the other out because their priorities weren't in line or did they start allowing for doing more stuff that could accommodate both groups, or alternate doing kid-friendly things with adults-only things? Seems like this proves they can be flexible with different friends' needs when their situation changes

Their kind of rude comments about money notwithstanding, I hope this means that if they're really your friends and care about your friendship as much as you care about them, then they'll be willing to be flexible in their choices of activities with you or not take it personally if you only come out for dinner occasionally instead of all the time.

[jpdx]

A museum outing inevitably comes with a $20 parking fee and then $30+ family meal.

Those things aren't inevitable, they are choices. When I go to the museum, I usually ride my bike or take transit, and I bring my own food and drinks.

[partgypsy]

I reiterate what other posters say. Usually the going out alot is a phase of the 20s and early 30s. That said I love concerts and live music and spending money to do that is worth it to me. If these friends are valuable, then I wouldn't draw a line in the sand to only do frugal activities. That said I would do a combination of: activities the group are doing.if there is a way to do so more frugally can say separate checks ahead of time, no one cares if you order an app as a meal. Organize or create traditions that are low minimal cost (hiking or visiting local park, nature area, game or movie night). Also Ok to opt out selectively of if a particular outing is out of budget, as long as still see friends on reg basis. In our group, the only people who finances affected friendships were the people who never reciprocated or were freeloaders (not having money when time to split the bill, etc).