Experiences working for a bad boss.

[achvfi]

Anyone had bad boss yet?

I have new boss at work brought from outside the organization. I had some deep conversations with her working on a roadmap for team's projects and I have feeling that she is going to be a bad boss. She seems vindictive. She asks for feedback, but doesn't like it when you actually give some. Seems to take offense easily.

She is very eager to make her mark on the team. I feel that she is introducing new processes that add little or no value to work we do. In my estimate new processes will waste about 20% of our time. It makes me miserable to recognize that we have deal with this crap everyday. It just eats me away.

I am one of few in the team who usually speak up when I see bullshit. Its been hard for me to see these changes and keep my mouth shut. If I do make much noice I am pretty sure she is taking notes. I feel that she already doesn't like me. Reminds me of Dolores Umbridge from harry potter world.

How would you approach my senario? Did you ever had a bad boss?

[Retire-Canada]

I've had both kinds of bad bosses:

1. ineffective and weak
2. immoral and illegal

I managed them as best I could standing my ground for 2 years. When it came time to decide to renew that contract or move on I couldn't get out of there fast enough. I don't regret that choice ever...not for one second. I also did not compromise my own standards/principles which put me on a collision course with the worst of the two and I got no support from the weak/ineffective boss.

On the bright-side I learned a lot about myself and feel really good about how I handled a tough situation. It set me up to take zero shit and give zero fucks going forward.

[Blackbeard]

I’ve had a boss very similar to the OP.  I’d honestly say in my 19 year professional career, I’ve only had one bad boss.  I’ve had a couple mediocre, but by in large they were fantastic.  The bad boss was right in the middle of my career.  I was a plant manager and had 9 or so direct reports and responsible for leasing a plant of 400 employees.  He hated me and hated the job my team did to propel that plant forward.

I realized three or four years later, that I absolutely learned the most about true leadership during my tenure under the bad boss.  I learned how to manage up, I learned how to shield my reports so they didn’t see the drama, I learned how to excel in adverse situations, I also learned how to play “The Game.”  No one really knew we hated each other.  I never got defensive when he was petty or vindictive.  I let my plants results speak for themselves.  About 1.5 years into reporting too him I leap frogged him two spots.  I went to China to run our SE Asia plants, he went no where.  He eventually got demoted.

First irony, he got demoted to MY OLD JOB.  I shit you not, true story.

Second irony, I’m about three weeks away from FIRE, I think and talk about him the most when I give leadership advice.  Not in necessarily a negative way, but in a case study way.  If you lead people than go onto lead people that are leading several layers of an organization, it’s good to know what a bad apple looks like and try to coach it out or move it out of an organization.  I didn’t even realize how important he was to my career.

I’m thankful for all my good bosses, but I’m grateful for my bad boss.  He truly made me a better leader.

[jlcnuke]

I've had both kinds of bad bosses:

1. ineffective and weak
2. immoral and illegal

I managed them as best I could standing my ground for 2 years. When it came time to decide to renew that contract or move on I couldn't get out of there fast enough. I don't regret that choice ever...not for one second. I also did not compromise my own standards/principles which put me on a collision course with the worst of the two and I got no support from the weak/ineffective boss.

On the bright-side I learned a lot about myself and feel really good about how I handled a tough situation. It set me up to take zero shit and give zero fucks going forward.

Mine is both #1 and #2 currently. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with them 90% of the time as they're busy micromanaging someone else.  I'm one of 4 people that have had to go to HR about them for breaking the law so far though, so I'm 99% certain that I have no possible career progression here as long as they are still here. Unfortunately, it's still the best employment option I've found that doesn't require me to relocate.

As I *could* be considered FI (I have enough passive income + investments to cover all of my necessary spending), I don't mind pushing back some. I'm also fairly certain that I'd only get fired if our department had to lay off a significant number of people (I'm one of the most experienced/capable people in the department) so I'm not really concerned that reasonable statements, even if they don't like them, would result in anything other than a "talking to" at worst.

[Linea_Norway]

I had one really bad boss and she finally gave me the motivation to start brushing up my CV and find another job, after 12 years in the same job. At one occasion, 3 of us idenpendantly complained about her: I did to the personal manager, someone else to the boss's manager and a third person put in his resignation.

If you have a boss who takes away all the pleasure of working there (or who is really bad for your health), and there is no way of getting rid of the boss, it is time to save yourself and get out of there. Or, as Blackbeard describes, get in charge over the situation in some other way.

[okonomiyaki]

I am one of few in the team who usually speak up when I see bullshit. Its been hard for me to see these changes and keep my mouth shut. If I do make much noice I am pretty sure she is taking notes. I feel that she already doesn't like me. Reminds me of Dolores Umbridge from harry potter world.

This basically describes me right now, and - hell - it’s been a miserable 2+ years. I had extenuating circumstances which meant that I couldn’t focus on finding a new job before now (pregnancy + mat. Leave), but god is it bad being one of the few people who speaks up... unlike the poster above, who was midcareer when this hit, I’m not at managerial level (yet, but its also a weird industry ), so I have no way of circumventing him - so while it’s teaching me a lot about how to live and work in the world, I’m not sure it’ll ever be a positive experience for me, and that it won’t completely derail my career.

To add to this, he’s incredibly bad at understanding what we actually do, meaning that projects that would go far get shafted to people who can’t deliver on them, while sh.t ideas that should have been abandoned years ago are prioritized and attempted to get to completion. And when the latter projects turn out to be dunces, instead of looking crtitically at himself , he just fires the person who didn’t “deliver”.... so, yeah, feeling your pain, and I’d be looking for a new job in your shoes. Because it’s always the people who speak out who have issues, but if you’re one of those people, it’s rare that you can change your nature and stay quiet...

[Dances With Fire]

First I must say, I've had some great caring bosses over the years. Sure, we had some disagreements and some growing pains along the way. But in the end, it has been an interesting journey.

When I was just starting out however, one boss really stands out. He took ideas and suggestions from the staff and then took all the credit for HIS great ideas. Paid crappy wages. Cared more about the money but NOT about the customers. Big mistake!

 I watched as the business began to fail and finally left. Should have seen it coming sooner but I was young and inexperienced...

The business failed and a few weeks after I left they closed the doors for good.

What would I have done differently? Not sure because jobs were very hard to come by back then. But keep your options open, knowing that if or when you could walk away if needed. Transfer someplace more enjoyable if possible. Keep a close network with others in your field which I did and spent the next 10 years with a new and growing business.

[OtherJen]

Mine was a micromanaging workaholic.

One of my favorite examples of what it was like to work for this person include the week when I went out of state for work-related training and the boss called a meeting of everyone else in the group to pick apart and completely rearrange my project. I was a postdoctoral fellow at the time and needed to be able to buckle down and do focused research (on a project completely different than what I had agreed to while interviewing and completely out of my wheelhouse) so that I could get grants, but the boss changed my project every time they talked to someone new or read something trendy (I wish I were joking).

The tantrum before a 9 am meeting because I hadn’t gotten the 1 am email (yes, 8 hours before and overnight) demanding new PowerPoint slides for said meeting was fun, as was the tantrum the day before Thanksgiving, which came with the demand that I cancel all of my out of town family holiday plans and work on an idea they had just cooked up that afternoon. The last straw was during my poster presentation at a conference, when the boss cut me off mid-sentence and started wildly speculating about the meager, early-stage data.

I went into full breakdown from stress. Somehow I managed to take my side gig full time and got out of that fellowship after 14 months.

[Livingthedream55]

I've had several (oh and all of these have been at nonprofits so in addition to low pay we get this nonsense):

Boss #1. A pompous blustery older man who headed a large department at a University who demanded we refer to him as Mr. X (instead of by his first name), who never left his office (except for one weekly staff meeting where he did 90% of the talking), did not allow any staff member to get credit for any work product, had no good relationships with colleagues  in the University and was forgetful (so I quickly learned to keep all backup emails, etc. so I could prove I did indeed do what he asked me to do) and had a temper (was a shouter). One memorable example of his personality was the day he would not allow us to physically leave a staff meeting when the building was being evacuated due to a bomb threat. He started yelling at us to sit back down and said that we all had to stay and get through all the agenda items (with sirens blasting) because HE was going on vacation at the end of the day!

Boss #2. A CEO of a small nonprofit who used the corporate credit card to fund business class plane tickets, concierge level hotel accommodations,  luxury restaurant meals and multiple alcoholic drinks for an endless calendar of so called "business" travel. I was in my late 20's and had the misfortune to be in the car with him on a few occasions where he would try to make sexual overtures, talk in a most inappropriate way, etc. I went to the Chair of the Board of Directors and was a whistle blower about his spending but they took no action as far as I could see. I left as soon as I could get another job.

Boss #3. A recovering alcoholic/drug addict running a substance abuse treatment department of a hospital who was in relapse (drinking) - but who stayed on the job!

Not a boss but I was at a meeting where a police officer (carrying a gun) who was the Chief of campus police was visibly drunk at 11 am at a meeting where we were creating a policy for an alcohol/drug free campus! Thankfully there was an intervention shortly after and he went on leave/treatment.

My only advice is to do your job to the best of your ability, respectfully speak up ("I'd like to go on record to say I think ABC project is not the best use of our resources, etc.") and create a financial safety net for yourself. Stay calm, poised and professional. Try not to take the bait. Try not to take outbursts personally. Cultivate connections within the company that might lead to a transfer to a different department. Keep good records so that you can document your productivity/accomplishments. Update your resume. Explore other opportunities/a new job.

[PDXTabs]

Yea, twice. The first time I was really young and waited for a natural exit (school year) when I was in college. The second time I made it clear why I left, and I don't think that he manages anyone anymore.

[Tasse]

@Malkynn's advice is wonderful. Use their shortcomings to your advantage. It's certainly true in my experience that employees have to learn to manage bosses as much as the opposite.

My boss is a mixed bag. He's smart and supportive, but his idea of guiding or pushing me is "So how are things going? Good? Good." I've really struggled (though I'm hopefully learning) to work independently under him - it's not what I pictured, but it's the only way things get done.

He also wouldn't know a deadline if it hit him in the face, but that's mostly its own issue.

[Warlord1986]

My first boss out of college was recently hit with a fine for misrepresenting his business as service disabled, veteran-owned, and small. He and his were pretty racist too.

There was the boss who got high in front of the office at a party, then passed out.

There was the petty non-communicator who refused to provide instructions or guidance.

My current boss has...issues. I think they might be related to her mental health. She broke down and cried this morning.

[eljefe-speaks]

I had a boss that called me on my commute home from work and asked for the login ID and password for my work PC. I gave it to her because it was a lose/lose situation. She easily could have made sure I did not get promotions or raises. I think she wanted to check my emails to see if I was gossiping about her, but to this day I don't know what she actually did on my computer.

[FINate]

I've had my fair share of bad bosses.

It's important to recognize that you have no responsibility to fix the situation. I get that you care about your co-workers, and maybe even the company, but don't fall on your sword unless a) you chose to do so knowing the potential consequences and b) you're reasonably certain you'll be effective.

Predicting your ability to effect change is difficult at best, and not something I can ascertain on an internet forum. So much of this depends on the person in question, the personalities and leadership style of the management chain, and the overall company culture.

But, I can say that the deck is almost certainly stacked against you. A bad boss is in part, by definition, someone who doesn't respond well to constructive criticism... otherwise, they would have learned along the way how to be a good boss (or leader). Anyone who has worked their way into a leadership role likely has some political skill and ambition. Combine that with vindictiveness and you have a perfect storm for misery. At best you, along with upper management, will get drawn into a shit storm of politics and you emerge victorious but not unscathed. In other words, even if you win, you may always be remembered as a trouble causer.

The above is a best case scenario. You have to carefully consider how (or why) management installed a bad boss in the first place. Are they ineffective and/or incompetent? If this is the case then how likely is it that they will side with a cantankerous employee over the person they've hired to lead? The lazy approach - the path of least resistance - is for management to just believe what the boss is saying. Or, perhaps, upper management has decided that your team needs some shaking up and your bad boss is doing exactly what they hired her to do?

This all takes a great deal of discernment, and there are no easy answers or formula to follow, except to say that if you're at all uncertain about any aspects of the above I would just fall in line and go along with the problem to the best of your ability while actively (and secretly) looking for another job or transfer.

[OurTown]

My first boss:  "Are you implying that I'm some kind of an idiot?"
Me:  "No, I'm inferring that you are some kind of an idiot.  You are the one implying it."

[TomSelleckJR]

My current boss isn't the worst I've ever had, but he has some employee trust issues that drive me crazy.

Some examples:
- He will regularly call at 7:01 A.M. to ensure you are up and at it  (we work ~500 miles apart).
- He will regularly call at 4:59 P.M. (especially on Fridays) to ensure you are still working. (10 hour days are his expectation)
- He will anonymously call in to group conference calls with his phone on mute, eavesdropping on his own employees.  He has admitted to me numerous times that he does this, and has asked me details about events from the call (proving he actually was on the conference call).
- He is talking about installing web cams in our remote manufacturing shops, so he can see what the shop employees are doing.
- All miles in a company vehicle must be logged.  (Time, date, reason for use, etc). He has been known to verify accuracy with google maps.
- All expenses made on a company card must be accompanied with a detailed itinerary (Time, date, reason for use, etc) and it's crossed checked against the vehicle log mentioned above to ensure that the stories line up.

I legitimately put in the hours and am always 100% honest and upfront with charges to the company card, so I've never had a real issue or problem. 
All of the unwarranted distrust of his employees does get old though.

[JoJo]

My least favorite boss took credit for everything I did for years.  If someone important was going to be at a meeting, I would not be invited.

[mm1970]

Wow I'm kind of enjoying these stories in a really weird way.  I've had a couple of bad bosses.

1.  Would rudely strike down any idea I had in a meeting on  how to fix a particular issue.  "That's stupid."  (Interestingly, later I was at offsite management training - and the teacher noted that this is NEVER how to handle issues in a meeting.  He pipes up, "sometimes it's a dumb idea and you have too!"  Those of us from our company - it included other companies - rolled our eyes behind his back.)  Anyway, after about 4-6 months of this, I started feeling really stupid.  Like, wow, I  must be the worst engineer ever.  Then I realized it was his "thing".  And magically 2 weeks later, in the same weekly meeting, he'd have this "great idea".  I simply smacked myself and said "MM, you are an engineer.  You have been in this specific industry for almost 10 years.  He's been in it for 6 months.  He doesn't know shit."  So, I stopped speaking in meetings - instead, if I knew how to fix something - I just fixed it - I grabbed the necessary wafers and materials, ran experiments, analyzed results - and PRESENTED THEM when the changes were made.

Funny, we got a new engineering manager and this guy was promoted to VP.  Six months into the job manager and I were chatting about VP and he mentioned how stupid he feels.  I said "oh no, that's his THING!!"  Once we recognized it, we could ignore it.  The worst was when we were in a meeting and I had presented the results of a 3 month experiment/ study.  We come out of the meeting, and VP says "I HAVE THIS GREAT IDEA, WHY DON'T WE TRY... YOU KNOW WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS??"  I simply said "um, were you paying attention?  I just presented the results of that idea.  3 minutes ago."  So I don't think that he was intentionally stealing ideas, he just never ever writes a fucking thing down, immediately goes on attack, then the idea percolates in his brain for a few weeks.

2.  Boss who had a sign on his door "In God We Trust, everyone else bring data."  Never. fucking. looked. at. the data.  Sometimes let us do our jobs, but in big important problems, would have group meetings to come up with fishbone charts and not assign importance to the ones that came from people who...actually knew what they were doing.  Made decisions based on no data.  Let an engineer quit (because the boss SUCKED) and then later said "wait, what do you MEAN she did all of the mask design, developed all of the coating programs, and was working on projects ABC?"  Duh, you're her BOSS.  And then laid off one of my engineers - without telling me - a month later "what do you MEAN she was fixing etch problems XYZ?"  Ugh. 

Needless to say, we didn't get along, and I transferred to a new position to get away from him, which my previous boss had also done.

[Gremlin]

My first boss:  "Are you implying that I'm some kind of an idiot?"
Me:  "No, I'm inferring that you are some kind of an idiot.  You are the one implying it."

That's brilliant!

[achvfi]

Thank you for adding your experiences and wisdom, you helped me make up my game plan going forward.

I am going to adapt. I am going to just take it easy. I will just go with the flow. I am going to smile, nod and move out of the way.

I agree with many here and its not worth it to stir the pot. I could slowly fix crappy processes introduced to the team, but likely I will add immense stress to my life for a while. I have a feeling that its going to be like a whack-a-mole, trying to fix one issue after another. Honestly there is no incentive to try to be helpful or courageous. I have decided to let things work out on their own over time. Lastly I may even look around for interesting opportunities.

@FINate, The person was hired for different role but unfortunately had to be moved to our group due to circumstances.

@eljefe-speaks, She also asked us to show our calendar. Who, why and what. She wants to control. I flat out refused to show.

[Gone_Hiking]

I worked for a world-class douche of a manager a few years ago.  And I mean world-class: a German working for a Swiss pharma giant who moved to Arizona via pharma site in Dublin, software development center in Warsaw, and the headquarters in Basel.  Perfectly nice during the interview, with a couple of LinkedIn recommendations as a great manager, he turned into sociopath once I was in the process of uprooting my family to the new job, our old house on the market, and us looking for another one.  Two weeks in, my DH and son flew in to check out the town and DH went to human resources in my workplace to find some job-related contacts.  I brought my kid, then five years old, into my cube, and read him a story.  30 seconds after I started, the douche of a boss was standing by my cube asking whether the kid was going to be there all day.  I said that no, it was only going to be 20 minutes while my husband is job hunting here, we are relocating from another state and he needs a job, too, I said.  To this he responded that the next time I would do it at home.  Choking back tears, I took my now scared child and left the building, preferring to wait for DH outside, and thinking "What have I done?".  That was the beginning of a three-year journey into dark places that also taught me that he really liked my work, he just had no idea how to express it; barking orders and getting results by humiliating people was all he knew. When I finally moved, I landed a 25% raise, and that was the best FU I could muster.   Funny thing, he became quite nice and personable when I no longer worked for him.  He is still there and can't be moved: his wife is the CEO.

What I'm trying to say here is this: you have a way to turn it to your advantage.  Some bad bosses can teach us a lot on how to handle their fragile egos, and sometimes we get much better at doing things under pressure.  And of course, there is always getting another, higher paid job, and saying FU if you must.  Best of luck!

[Bee21]

Yeah, i know exactly how you feel. My strategy: build up a very large FU fund and reduce expenses drastically.  Update resume. That gave my the backup when i simply laughed into her face after a particularly nasty incident, saying that I don't have to be here. I chose to be here, but i don't put up with crap. She avoided me for a long time after that (plus badmouthed me to the big boss). Don't care. Everything is about them. If they are unhappy, everybody should be unhappy.  Etc, etc. We got to the point when we know not to contradict her or offer a different strategy (which might work) as we know we will be doused with sarcasm. So, we just end up working for months on projects that get binned in the end.  Fun place to be. I am ready to move on...have an exit strategy as working in a toxic workplace takes its toll. Don't waste your life there, have a look around asap. It's easier to deal with work dramas when you have a plan B. Or C.

[achvfi]

Yeah, i know exactly how you feel. My strategy: build up a very large FU fund and reduce expenses drastically.  Update resume. That gave my the backup when i simply laughed into her face after a particularly nasty incident, saying that I don't have to be here. I chose to be here, but i don't put up with crap. She avoided me for a long time after that (plus badmouthed me to the big boss). Don't care. Everything is about them. If they are unhappy, everybody should be unhappy.  Etc, etc. We got to the point when we know not to contradict her or offer a different strategy (which might work) as we know we will be doused with sarcasm. So, we just end up working for months on projects that get binned in the end.  Fun place to be. I am ready to move on...have an exit strategy as working in a toxic workplace takes its toll. Don't waste your life there, have a look around asap. It's easier to deal with work dramas when you have a plan B. Or C.

Absolutely Bee21, I have been journeying towards reach FI for few years now with few hiccups here and there. Hopefully I will achieve FI next in 3-4 years. If I don't feel I can take this crap, I have options.