Ever had your investment advice discounted because you don't act rich enough?

[exterous]

Was with a group of people on Friday and saving for retirement came up. One guy had a friend who had been giving him advice which he shared with the group. It wasn't bad advice about getting passive income streams from rentals but it wasn't necessarily tailored for this group. So when people were discussing various downsides like having two mortgages for two properties and how it would be too hard for them to do I suggested that increasing contributions to retirement accounts would be a good way to build wealth without the need to incur additional debt.

Counter points were made that that takes such a long time and that the guy giving the advice had a fancy house and fancy cars. So I asked if we knew what his net worth was.

"I don't know but probably over a million dollars. And if someone who lives like that is going to give me free advice then I should take it. Besides its not like anyone here has over a million dollars."

I suggested that just because someone buys lots of fancy toys that doesn't mean they have a lot of assets and vise versa but I got the distinct impression that my comments about saving, compounding interest and index funds weren't of interest unless I was willing to tag my seven figure net worth to the strategy as proof that it works.

I shared the story with my wife to which she responded (jokingly) "So what you're saying is that I should get a Lexus (she drives a Civic). Then people will take the advice more seriously and end up with a better retirement. It would be the considerate and compassionate thing to do."

[Gin1984]

Your wife's response was hilarious. 

[SwordGuy]

Your wife is a treasure.   

[MrDelane]

Someone on here linked to this article recently, which sort of hits on points of the psychology you're talking about:
http://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/the-psychology-of-money/

My favorite portion of the essay happens to be the most relevant to this:

We tend to judge wealth by what we see. We can’t see people’s bank accounts or brokerage statements. So we rely on outward appearances to gauge financial success. Cars. Homes. Vacations. Instagram photos.

But this is America, and one of our cherished industries is helping people fake it until they make it.

Wealth, in fact, is what you don’t see. It’s the cars not purchased. The diamonds not bought. The renovations postponed, the clothes forgone and the first-class upgrade declined. It’s assets in the bank that haven’t yet been converted into the stuff you see.

But that’s not how we think about wealth, because you can’t contextualize what you can’t see.

Singer Rihanna nearly went broke after overspending and sued her financial advisor. The advisor responded: “Was it really necessary to tell her that if you spend money on things, you will end up with the things and not the money?”

You can laugh. But the truth is, yes, people need to be told that. When most people say they want to be a millionaire, what they really mean is “I want to spend a million dollars,” which is literally the opposite of being a millionaire.

And by the way, agreed, your wife is hilarious.
:)

[Duke03]

I tell everyone I'm poor so they don't ask me for money!  The last thing I want is someone to think I'm rich.

When it comes to conversations about money I just accept that most people are idiots and I personally don't like arguing with idiots so I just find something else to talk about.  Case in point.  My neighbor who is retired told me I need to be investing at least 10% of paycheck for retirement.  He then went on to give me a pass on his 10% rule because he knows my wife is a stay at home mom and money was probably tight.  I didn't have the heart to tell him I had been maxing out 4 different retirement accounts since I was 23.

[okits]

Many people will depend on visible signals of legitimacy and credibility from the advisor rather than rigorously assessing the actual value of the advice given.  That shortcut doesn't always work, and personal finance is an arena where it often fails.  I wouldn't get too invested in whether people who don't know you well take your advice.

Enjoy your seven-figure NW, and I hope your wife enjoys her Lexus. ;)

[letired]

Someone on here linked to this article recently, which sort of hits on points of the psychology you're talking about:
http://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/the-psychology-of-money/

My favorite portion of the essay happens to be the most relevant to this:

We tend to judge wealth by what we see. We can’t see people’s bank accounts or brokerage statements. So we rely on outward appearances to gauge financial success. Cars. Homes. Vacations. Instagram photos.

But this is America, and one of our cherished industries is helping people fake it until they make it.

Wealth, in fact, is what you don’t see. It’s the cars not purchased. The diamonds not bought. The renovations postponed, the clothes forgone and the first-class upgrade declined. It’s assets in the bank that haven’t yet been converted into the stuff you see.

But that’s not how we think about wealth, because you can’t contextualize what you can’t see.

Singer Rihanna nearly went broke after overspending and sued her financial advisor. The advisor responded: “Was it really necessary to tell her that if you spend money on things, you will end up with the things and not the money?”

You can laugh. But the truth is, yes, people need to be told that. When most people say they want to be a millionaire, what they really mean is “I want to spend a million dollars,” which is literally the opposite of being a millionaire.

And by the way, agreed, your wife is hilarious.
:)

^^ I read that article and it was great!

[inline five]

To be fair most of us have money because we don't have things. I'm not sure it's really fair to say one is wealthy because they have money but no things vs someone that doesn't have a ton of money but has lots of things like a nice house. In fact if anything that nice house is probably a fairly decent investment in and of itself.

The stupid folks live in a lower end house but drive fancy cars, there is a guy down the street from me with an Audi R8. Even used those are $70k cars...I dunno...I'd rather live in a nicer neighborhood vs drive that car.

[mak1277]

I mean, it makes some sense to me.  It's like the old joke..."if you were so good at predicting the market, why are you working for me and not living on a yacht?"

[radram]

Instead, why not just go to a junk yard, pry off a Lexus logo, and affix it to your wife's Civic?

[JetBlast]

To be fair most of us have money because we don't have things. I'm not sure it's really fair to say one is wealthy because they have money but no things vs someone that doesn't have a ton of money but has lots of things like a nice house. In fact if anything that nice house is probably a fairly decent investment in and of itself.

The stupid folks live in a lower end house but drive fancy cars, there is a guy down the street from me with an Audi R8. Even used those are $70k cars...I dunno...I'd rather live in a nicer neighborhood vs drive that car.

You must live in my neighborhood!  Across the street and two houses down my neighbor parks about $130,000 worth of cars in the driveway of a $200,000 home.

[Slow&Steady]

I cannot get my dad or brother to stop picking stocks!  They have both only talked to me 1-2 times about how to make money from the stock market, neither one liked my response, it is apparently not good because it isn't active enough.

"I follow a Boglehead philosophy, picking 3 index funds and just keep funneling money into them. I re-balance occasionally."

"So what stocks do you purchase?"

"I don't really know, whatever is in the funds that I chose."

"You don't actually watch the ticker marks on the stock market and move your money around and research companies?"

"Nope"

"Good luck with that, I will share my strategies with you after I get rich."

"Ok, thanks."

My dad is not nearly as bad, he is 5-7 years away from retiring and will probably be okay but at the time he retires I will probably have more in my 401k than he will.  My brother can't spend his money fast enough.  I don't have a fancy car or house, so there is no way that I know what I am talking about when it comes to money.  However, in a moment of brilliance my parents did pick me in their living will to handle financial aspects of their life if something makes them incapable of doing it. 

[bittheory]

I experience this often from BBQs to family events. My mustachian philosophy is often met with bewilderment. But you know what else will be met with bewilderment? In 10 years when we're at a BBQ with the same set of people, but I'm no longer working while they're working to pay off their latest car loans.

[patchyfacialhair]

I don't talk to enough people about their investments/retirement...frankly because it rarely comes up and I'm not one to bring up the topic. Late 20s here. On the rare occasions it does come up, it actually goes pretty well. I basically paraphrase MMM's Shockingly Simple Math and I haven't heard many objections yet. People basically agree that it's hard to get "rich" or retire early unless you're saving a ton, that's really all there is to it.

[kite]

My advice is: don't give advice. 
I'm not their dentist, so I'm not going to tell anyone how to take care of their teeth.  You aren't letting someone in on a secret or some methodology that you invented.  All the resources are freely available to anyone who can read. 
I work on one of the electronic trading systems. So, in social situations with family and friends, I typically know more than most.  And yet, none of that is relevant or supersedes the very good generic advice that exists for everyone in every situation. 

[exterous]

Your wife is a treasure.

I did get pretty lucky

Instead, why not just go to a junk yard, pry off a Lexus logo, and affix it to your wife's Civic?

Oh good idea. I was going to see if I could find a cheap toy sports car or something but that would be cheaper

[Another Reader]

Well, the best advice Dave Ramsey gives is "Don't take financial advice from broke people."  To the untrained eye, you look broke and the guy with the house and cars looks rich.  The truth is likely very different...  But these people don't understand that.

[clarkfan1979]

I am guilty of judging wealth based on fancy houses are cars. However, I did that when I was 19. At about 22, I realized that just because you have a fancy car doesn't mean you actually have money.

[ThatGuy]

To be fair most of us have money because we don't have things. I'm not sure it's really fair to say one is wealthy because they have money but no things vs someone that doesn't have a ton of money but has lots of things like a nice house. In fact if anything that nice house is probably a fairly decent investment in and of itself.

The stupid folks live in a lower end house but drive fancy cars, there is a guy down the street from me with an Audi R8. Even used those are $70k cars...I dunno...I'd rather live in a nicer neighborhood vs drive that car.

You must live in my neighborhood!  Across the street and two houses down my neighbor parks about $130,000 worth of cars in the driveway of a $200,000 home.

This may be even worse.  I know a guy that owns a Chevy Silverado pickup truck that's probably a 2010 or newer and a Chevy Camaro that's only a few years old and he lives in a trailer that's worth maybe $5,000.  Plus he's paying $300 a month lot rent.

[Seadog]

Well, the best advice Dave Ramsey gives is "Don't take financial advice from broke people."  To the untrained eye, you look broke and the guy with the house and cars looks rich.  The truth is likely very different...  But these people don't understand that.

I disagree, I've started taking the attitude that I'm normal, and that most others are probably in a similar boat, working hard and made a good income - as perfectly a valid assumption as that everyone eagerly spends 90-110% of their income and a $5k car is the consequence of only earning $20k a year. For instance, when someone alludes to a fancy car and that the person is rich, I ask for a literal explanation. "Well if we both make $200k a year, and he spend $120k on a new Porsche, and I'm riding a bike, I probably have close to 200k left, while he has well under $100k, so all else being equal, presumably who ever has the more modest mode of transport is richer.

There was an article on financial samuri about what a "reasonable" car expense was, and pegged it at 10% annual salary. Therefore, you can assume anyone with a new Camry is well enshrined as a 1%er. Now obviously that isn't the case, because most people don't live by that 10% rule. But treat that reality as yours and own it - it's certainly as valid as any of the spendypatns'.

[mak1277]

Well, the best advice Dave Ramsey gives is "Don't take financial advice from broke people."  To the untrained eye, you look broke and the guy with the house and cars looks rich.  The truth is likely very different...  But these people don't understand that.

I disagree, I've started taking the attitude that I'm normal, and that most others are probably in a similar boat, working hard and made a good income - as perfectly a valid assumption as that everyone eagerly spends 90-110% of their income and a $5k car is the consequence of only earning $20k a year. For instance, when someone alludes to a fancy car and that the person is rich, I ask for a literal explanation. "Well if we both make $200k a year, and he spend $120k on a new Porsche, and I'm riding a bike, I probably have close to 200k left, while he has well under $100k, so all else being equal, presumably who ever has the more modest mode of transport is richer.

There was an article on financial samuri about what a "reasonable" car expense was, and pegged it at 10% annual salary. Therefore, you can assume anyone with a new Camry is well enshrined as a 1%er. Now obviously that isn't the case, because most people don't live by that 10% rule. But treat that reality as yours and own it - it's certainly as valid as any of the spendypatns'.

"as valid"?  Absolutely
"as likely"? Not even close

[HipGnosis]

I am guilty of judging wealth based on fancy houses are cars. However, I did that when I was 19. At about 22, I realized that just because you have a fancy car doesn't mean you actually have money.

I realized that most people with big houses and fancy cars have huge amounts of debt.

[JetBlast]

To be fair most of us have money because we don't have things. I'm not sure it's really fair to say one is wealthy because they have money but no things vs someone that doesn't have a ton of money but has lots of things like a nice house. In fact if anything that nice house is probably a fairly decent investment in and of itself.

The stupid folks live in a lower end house but drive fancy cars, there is a guy down the street from me with an Audi R8. Even used those are $70k cars...I dunno...I'd rather live in a nicer neighborhood vs drive that car.

You must live in my neighborhood!  Across the street and two houses down my neighbor parks about $130,000 worth of cars in the driveway of a $200,000 home.

This may be even worse.  I know a guy that owns a Chevy Silverado pickup truck that's probably a 2010 or newer and a Chevy Camaro that's only a few years old and he lives in a trailer that's worth maybe $5,000.  Plus he's paying $300 a month lot rent.

Yikes!  I wouldn’t even be interested in taking those cars for a drive. Why would you live in a trailer to afford those?  At least my neighbor has a car I’d love to take out and drive, a Nissan GT-R.

I’m not sure what to make of some of my other neighbors. Retired couple where the husband drives an absolutely beat to hell but very economic used car. He goes to the library every day and takes his chargers so he can charge his electronic devices for free while he’s there. All seems very mustachian. But they have three other vehicles including a minivan and a brand new Lexus SUV. Why do two retirees need four cars???

[mathlete]

I kind of had the reverse happen once.

About a year ago, the subject of investing came up between some friends and I. I was touting investing in solid companies who produce value and profit. Another friend was pitching the latest crypto.

My pitch was this: "Everyone in this room can explain to me why and how Apple makes money. Essentially, why it's worth hundreds of billions of dollars. Crypto currency probably does have some value, but no one here can tell my why that is, or what it is."

I'm relatively rich. Crypto friend is poor. AAPL is up ~30% year over year. His crypto recommendation, to his credit, did go up big time, but is pretty flat year over year as of right now.

I sure hope everyone remembered to sell at the right time. ;)

[montgomery212]

Pretty much. I never talk about investing etc bc I don’t want to let on my situation. However, my extended family is pretty much flashy money, so if investing/markets/economy even come up, you can pretty much see them rolling their eyes even though these are my passions and I work in/near these spaces professionally.

But to them — they have McMansions in Dallas, Raleigh with luxury cars for all adults and all kids getting new cars at 16, so what would someone living in NYC or DC one bedroom rentals and driving a Toyota even know?! So far as they are concerned, my Ivy League degrees are a joke bc look what they got me — one bedrooms and Toyotas LOL. Well they also got me into double comma range at age 37 by myself — ie no spouse contributing income/investments. But let them think I’m dumb and know nothing about investing.

[Just Joe]

To be fair most of us have money because we don't have things. I'm not sure it's really fair to say one is wealthy because they have money but no things vs someone that doesn't have a ton of money but has lots of things like a nice house. In fact if anything that nice house is probably a fairly decent investment in and of itself.

The stupid folks live in a lower end house but drive fancy cars, there is a guy down the street from me with an Audi R8. Even used those are $70k cars...I dunno...I'd rather live in a nicer neighborhood vs drive that car.

You must live in my neighborhood!  Across the street and two houses down my neighbor parks about $130,000 worth of cars in the driveway of a $200,000 home.

This may be even worse.  I know a guy that owns a Chevy Silverado pickup truck that's probably a 2010 or newer and a Chevy Camaro that's only a few years old and he lives in a trailer that's worth maybe $5,000.  Plus he's paying $300 a month lot rent.

Yikes!  I wouldn’t even be interested in taking those cars for a drive. Why would you live in a trailer to afford those?  At least my neighbor has a car I’d love to take out and drive, a Nissan GT-R.

I’m not sure what to make of some of my other neighbors. Retired couple where the husband drives an absolutely beat to hell but very economic used car. He goes to the library every day and takes his chargers so he can charge his electronic devices for free while he’s there. All seems very mustachian. But they have three other vehicles including a minivan and a brand new Lexus SUV. Why do two retirees need four cars???

Why would he worry about the cost to recharge his gadgets? My ebike has a very large battery and Kill-A-Watt reports it costs a nickel to recharge. Hopefully your neighbor isn't driving to the library to save on recharge electricity.

[nouveauRiche]

I generally direct these kind of people to "The Millionaire Next Door" and give a brief description of that kind of stealth wealth modest lifestyle. Add in a "you never know if the person who appears the poorest might actually be the wealthiest" and wink as I get into my old car.

You rock.

[JetBlast]

To be fair most of us have money because we don't have things. I'm not sure it's really fair to say one is wealthy because they have money but no things vs someone that doesn't have a ton of money but has lots of things like a nice house. In fact if anything that nice house is probably a fairly decent investment in and of itself.

The stupid folks live in a lower end house but drive fancy cars, there is a guy down the street from me with an Audi R8. Even used those are $70k cars...I dunno...I'd rather live in a nicer neighborhood vs drive that car.

You must live in my neighborhood!  Across the street and two houses down my neighbor parks about $130,000 worth of cars in the driveway of a $200,000 home.

This may be even worse.  I know a guy that owns a Chevy Silverado pickup truck that's probably a 2010 or newer and a Chevy Camaro that's only a few years old and he lives in a trailer that's worth maybe $5,000.  Plus he's paying $300 a month lot rent.

Yikes!  I wouldn’t even be interested in taking those cars for a drive. Why would you live in a trailer to afford those?  At least my neighbor has a car I’d love to take out and drive, a Nissan GT-R.

I’m not sure what to make of some of my other neighbors. Retired couple where the husband drives an absolutely beat to hell but very economic used car. He goes to the library every day and takes his chargers so he can charge his electronic devices for free while he’s there. All seems very mustachian. But they have three other vehicles including a minivan and a brand new Lexus SUV. Why do two retirees need four cars???

Why would he worry about the cost to recharge his gadgets? My ebike has a very large battery and Kill-A-Watt reports it costs a nickel to recharge. Hopefully your neighbor isn't driving to the library to save on recharge electricity.

He goes to the library to read the paper and magazines pretty much every day. I think the free electricity is just a bonus.

[RetirementInvestingToday]

...
I’m not sure what to make of some of my other neighbors. Retired couple where the husband drives an absolutely beat to hell but very economic used car. He goes to the library every day and takes his chargers so he can charge his electronic devices for free while he’s there. All seems very mustachian. But they have three other vehicles including a minivan and a brand new Lexus SUV. Why do two retirees need four cars???

I'm not quite that bad but I do walk to the library most Saturday mornings for a read of the Financial Times.  I used to find the Money section reasonably educational but not so much anymore.  I also grab some of the market data that is in the paper.

With wealth now at $1.8M (£1.4M) I could probably afford a subscription but old habits and all that...

[skip207]

I like my cars, its something that I get a lot of enjoyment out of and the classic car I have has been going up in value for the last 5 or 6 years.  I am sure if one of you guys drove past my house you might think I had cars on the never never and was wasting my money on luxury items but the reality is (for my particular situation) the thing might actually be worth a serious sum one day.  If not then oh well.

I have also lucked out on selling my cars, buying cars whcih have long waiting lists or are limited produciton numbers, running them for a year or so and then selling for list or above list in some situaitons. 

[patchyfacialhair]

(the Valet at a very upscale restaurant trying to figure out how to drive my 20 year old manual trans truck amongst all the Beemers and Lexus'.)

A valet who can't drive stick shouldn't be a valet at all! Scary stuff!

[scottish]

Someone who doesn't drive stick trying to park an old truck amidst the high end luxury imports.   You made me smile!

[Fomerly known as something]

Your wife is a treasure.

I did get pretty lucky

Instead, why not just go to a junk yard, pry off a Lexus logo, and affix it to your wife's Civic?

Oh good idea. I was going to see if I could find a cheap toy sports car or something but that would be cheaper

See if you can get her a Lexus hot wheel car.

[Loren Ver]

(the Valet at a very upscale restaurant trying to figure out how to drive my 20 year old manual trans truck amongst all the Beemers and Lexus'.)

A valet who can't drive stick shouldn't be a valet at all! Scary stuff!

I agree. It always amazes me how many young people (under 20) don't know how to drive a stick. I imagine there were other vs lets that know how too but they were off parking cars. I am not a person who uses vs lets though so maybe shift-less valet was normal.

ETA in the stealth wealth category one of most common reoccurring comments I have gotten from friends numerous times since FIREIng is " if you went back to work you could afford to buy a nicer car, house, stuff, proper vacations, etc". While I don't say anything back my thoughts are 1) I have enough cash sitting around to buy whatever I want. And 2) if you quit buying luxury cars, giant houses, 5 star spa vacations, designer everything, new boobs and faces (SoCal) you'd be able to quit the job you're always bitching about. My friends....sigh.

I wanted to learn to drive a stick for a long time, but they are not easy to find (US).  I even called all the driving instructor places in the city to see if they would teach me.  They said if I had the car they would.  If I had the car I wouldn't need their help.  So finally I just bit the bullet and bought one.  A friend from work went with me over lunch break, she test drove a few, gave me her input and I bought it.  Then she taught me how to drive it over our lunch breaks for the next few days.   Luckily DH is patient in carpooling out of his way while I learned this.  It actually took a while to find a car that was in my pretty low price range, and near enough that I could get to it over lunch, and able to meet over lunch for a test drive (there were 3 to pick from, had to go to a dealer).

But that is another item off my Bucket List! 

[ca-rn]

 
[/quote]

I wanted to learn to drive a stick for a long time, but they are not easy to find (US).  I even called all the driving instructor places in the city to see if they would teach me.  They said if I had the car they would.  If I had the car I wouldn't need their help.  So finally I just bit the bullet and bought one.  A friend from work went with me over lunch break, she test drove a few, gave me her input and I bought it.  Then she taught me how to drive it over our lunch breaks for the next few days.   Luckily DH is patient in carpooling out of his way while I learned this.  It actually took a while to find a car that was in my pretty low price range, and near enough that I could get to it over lunch, and able to meet over lunch for a test drive (there were 3 to pick from, had to go to a dealer).

But that is another item off my Bucket List!
[/quote]

That's how I bought my first car!  it was an old vw stick shift with only 4 gears. 

A friend drive us and test drove the car while i sat in the passenger seat, all the while asking- does it run well??? can i buy it??

Bought it and I drove his automatic back while he drove my "new" stick!   

It took a while to learn to shift gears, i remember totally stressing out whenever i came to a red light at any incline with a car anywhere near my rear!

then went on to buy a 5 speed and now a 6 speed manual.... but they are very hard to find.

and regarding the OP topic- yea, co workers who work overtime to afford their "necessities" because they work so hard and deserve extra think i'm a total oddball- working less than 40 hours and riding a bike or manual econo car..... don't understand why i don't work more to buy nicer things.....they believe in living for today and that their god will provide for their future and retirement.

[Loren Ver]

That's how I bought my first car!  it was an old vw stick shift with only 4 gears. 

A friend drive us and test drove the car while i sat in the passenger seat, all the while asking- does it run well??? can i buy it??

Bought it and I drove his automatic back while he drove my "new" stick!   

It took a while to learn to shift gears, i remember totally stressing out whenever i came to a red light at any incline with a car anywhere near my rear!

then went on to buy a 5 speed and now a 6 speed manual.... but they are very hard to find.

*High five*

It is good to have good friends.  I actually traded this experience for retirement advice.

For the OP, I don't think I have had my advice just discredited, but I don't check up so I don't know (they don't tell me to my face).  I really only bring it up to people that ask though.

I have, on the other hand, had people tell me "no" because then they would have to live like me.  Whatever.  There are so many options and layers, I just choose the one that works for me (and cuts years off my timeline).   It isn't a yes or no, one or the other.  But that is just an excuse because they don't want to change anything.  Which is fine with, totally their choice.  (Then why bring it up....?)

LV

[nouveauRiche]

Why thank you! Looking poor is fun ;-). I do have some fun stories about appearing poor to others when going to fancy places (the Valet at a very upscale restaurant trying to figure out how to drive my 20 year old manual trans truck amongst all the Beemers and Lexus'. Dates who knew I retired early and assuming I'm wealthy seeing me pull up in old beater truck. Etc.). Good times ;-)

I often smile a secret smile in parking lots when I'm surrounded by new SUVs and I'm walking away from our dented 2001 vehicle.

We don't go to fancy places but we did get a raised eyebrow at the bank, wearing junky clothes while transferring six figures from one account to another.  (The online transfer limit was $10k.)

[nazar]

(the Valet at a very upscale restaurant trying to figure out how to drive my 20 year old manual trans truck amongst all the Beemers and Lexus'.)

A valet who can't drive stick shouldn't be a valet at all! Scary stuff!

This happened to me picking up my car at a client building without self parking.  The kid came back after about 20 minutes and said my car wouldn't start.  I asked him if he engaged the clutch and he said he didn't know (SMH).  Fortunately, his supervisor overheard this and got the car for me.  I'd hate to think what would have happened if he did manage to start it.

[talltexan]

To be fair most of us have money because we don't have things. I'm not sure it's really fair to say one is wealthy because they have money but no things vs someone that doesn't have a ton of money but has lots of things like a nice house. In fact if anything that nice house is probably a fairly decent investment in and of itself.

The stupid folks live in a lower end house but drive fancy cars, there is a guy down the street from me with an Audi R8. Even used those are $70k cars...I dunno...I'd rather live in a nicer neighborhood vs drive that car.

You must live in my neighborhood!  Across the street and two houses down my neighbor parks about $130,000 worth of cars in the driveway of a $200,000 home.

This may be even worse.  I know a guy that owns a Chevy Silverado pickup truck that's probably a 2010 or newer and a Chevy Camaro that's only a few years old and he lives in a trailer that's worth maybe $5,000.  Plus he's paying $300 a month lot rent.

Yikes!  I wouldn’t even be interested in taking those cars for a drive. Why would you live in a trailer to afford those?  At least my neighbor has a car I’d love to take out and drive, a Nissan GT-R.

I’m not sure what to make of some of my other neighbors. Retired couple where the husband drives an absolutely beat to hell but very economic used car. He goes to the library every day and takes his chargers so he can charge his electronic devices for free while he’s there. All seems very mustachian. But they have three other vehicles including a minivan and a brand new Lexus SUV. Why do two retirees need four cars???

Why would he worry about the cost to recharge his gadgets? My ebike has a very large battery and Kill-A-Watt reports it costs a nickel to recharge. Hopefully your neighbor isn't driving to the library to save on recharge electricity.

He goes to the library to read the paper and magazines pretty much every day. I think the free electricity is just a bonus.

I'm making sure on a Friday afternoon to get all my devices charged at work so I can head into the weekend and not recharge at home.

[Fomerly known as something]

To add to the froth. 

I know how to drive a stick due to pre MMM days.  When I graduated from college and got my first job I of course needed a new car.  I ended up liking a VW Jetta the best.  But the one that was available for purchase was not the car I test drove but a stick so I went ahead and bought it never having driven a stick before.  I'm now extremely thankful for that car because it allows me to rent the econbox in Europe even though I now have an automatic even if it did take me a minute to figure out the Fiat ring thing as you just pushed down on the stick for reverse in my old Jetta.  Actually I thin I learned about the ring here on MMM.

[inline five]

I'm making sure on a Friday afternoon to get all my devices charged at work so I can head into the weekend and not recharge at home.

I tend to find people who think like that in order to save $0.05 in electricity costs tend to step over dollars to save dimes.

Example they would wash out plastic ziplocks but take their car to a mechanic and not invest time to learn to fix it themself.

Not saying you are like that but it seems to be consistent. Makes me laugh because I used to go #2 at work before I came home in order to save on toilet paper costs...

[Not Sure]

I generally direct these kind of people to "The Millionaire Next Door" and give a brief description of that kind of stealth wealth modest lifestyle. Add in a "you never know if the person who appears the poorest might actually be the wealthiest" and wink as I get into my old car.

You rock.

Why thank you! Looking poor is fun ;-). I do have some fun stories about appearing poor to others when going to fancy places (the Valet at a very upscale restaurant trying to figure out how to drive my 20 year old manual trans truck amongst all the Beemers and Lexus'. Dates who knew I retired early and assuming I'm wealthy seeing me pull up in old beater truck. Etc.). Good times ;-)

For some strange reason, I also enjoy driving an old beater.  It's probably funnier when it's optional.  Were I trapped in one, I probably wouldn't find it as amusing.  My vanity plate on a POS van I bought for a couple-hundred bucks -- LIMOSVC.  Ha!

[talltexan]

My car is ten years old, with a slightly-below-average 118,000 miles on it. I couldn't imagine how nervous I'd be with a new car about dings, scratches, etc.

[partgypsy]

(the Valet at a very upscale restaurant trying to figure out how to drive my 20 year old manual trans truck amongst all the Beemers and Lexus'.)

A valet who can't drive stick shouldn't be a valet at all! Scary stuff!

I agree. It always amazes me how many young people (under 20) don't know how to drive a stick. I imagine there were other vs lets that know how too but they were off parking cars. I am not a person who uses vs lets though so maybe shift-less valet was normal.

ETA in the stealth wealth category one of most common reoccurring comments I have gotten from friends numerous times since FIREIng is " if you went back to work you could afford to buy a nicer car, house, stuff, proper vacations, etc". While I don't say anything back my thoughts are 1) I have enough cash sitting around to buy whatever I want. And 2) if you quit buying luxury cars, giant houses, 5 star spa vacations, designer everything, new boobs and faces (SoCal) you'd be able to quit the job you're always bitching about. My friends....sigh.

Come move to NC. No face, boob jobs needed or expected! Though I do see brand new unnecessary trucks in the work parking lot.

[o2bfree]

I wanted to learn to drive a stick for a long time, but they are not easy to find (US).  I even called all the driving instructor places in the city to see if they would teach me.  They said if I had the car they would.  If I had the car I wouldn't need their help.  So finally I just bit the bullet and bought one.  A friend from work went with me over lunch break, she test drove a few, gave me her input and I bought it.  Then she taught me how to drive it over our lunch breaks for the next few days.   Luckily DH is patient in carpooling out of his way while I learned this.  It actually took a while to find a car that was in my pretty low price range, and near enough that I could get to it over lunch, and able to meet over lunch for a test drive (there were 3 to pick from, had to go to a dealer).

But that is another item off my Bucket List!

That's how I bought my first car!  it was an old vw stick shift with only 4 gears. 

A friend drive us and test drove the car while i sat in the passenger seat, all the while asking- does it run well??? can i buy it??

Bought it and I drove his automatic back while he drove my "new" stick!   

It took a while to learn to shift gears, i remember totally stressing out whenever i came to a red light at any incline with a car anywhere near my rear!

then went on to buy a 5 speed and now a 6 speed manual.... but they are very hard to find.

and regarding the OP topic- yea, co workers who work overtime to afford their "necessities" because they work so hard and deserve extra think i'm a total oddball- working less than 40 hours and riding a bike or manual econo car..... don't understand why i don't work more to buy nicer things.....they believe in living for today and that their god will provide for their future and retirement.

I've got an '02 Subaru Impreza, 5-speed manual, with under 50k miles on it. When I got my first major service, the Subaru specialist said I could get top dollar for the car if I wanted to sell it, partly because of the manual tranny. Apparently, manuals are in demand with the crowd that likes to trick out Subies.

[AlanStache]

re socal and expensive cars while sharing a bedroom.

Could this be because the expensive car is the only way to signal wealth?  If real estate is very tight or otherwise hard to get into a secondary indicator of "wealth" could be ones car. 

Having an old car is great in many ways; a few weeks back I loaded up bags of dirt onto the back seat after the trunk filled up.  I dont think I hesitated for one second about making a mess.

[partgypsy]

re socal and expensive cars while sharing a bedroom.

Could this be because the expensive car is the only way to signal wealth?  If real estate is very tight or otherwise hard to get into a secondary indicator of "wealth" could be ones car. 

Having an old car is great in many ways; a few weeks back I loaded up bags of dirt onto the back seat after the trunk filled up.  I dont think I hesitated for one second about making a mess.

It depends on location. Lots of places you see people living in modest living situations but having large or expensive cars that don't match the rest of their lives. However in NYC since not everyone has cars I'm sure there are other social signifiers such as clothing, your address (real estate) and what school your kids go to.

In the Midwest, maybe we are boring, but being upper middle class meant having of course a nice house, but it had to be nicely maintained with a nice yard and landscaping, interior. Icing on the cake was a purebred dog you walked in your suburban neighborhood or to a farmer's market type gathering. Big jewelry, expensive clothes/purses, fake tans etc were not a thing. Maybe a coach bag. But not the really expensive designer stuff or fancy high heels, or anything like that. Considered too ostentatious.

New Englanders I hear it's about one's family, connections, and real estate.

[o2bfree]

re socal and expensive cars while sharing a bedroom.

Could this be because the expensive car is the only way to signal wealth?  If real estate is very tight or otherwise hard to get into a secondary indicator of "wealth" could be ones car. 

Having an old car is great in many ways; a few weeks back I loaded up bags of dirt onto the back seat after the trunk filled up.  I dont think I hesitated for one second about making a mess.

Here in the Seattle area I think folks want an expensive car because there's a lot of time to show off their ride while stuck in traffic.

[MMMarbleheader]

re socal and expensive cars while sharing a bedroom.

Could this be because the expensive car is the only way to signal wealth?  If real estate is very tight or otherwise hard to get into a secondary indicator of "wealth" could be ones car. 

Having an old car is great in many ways; a few weeks back I loaded up bags of dirt onto the back seat after the trunk filled up.  I dont think I hesitated for one second about making a mess.

For all my gripes about the Boston area, the frugal Yankee culture especially among
It depends on location. Lots of places you see people living in modest living situations but having large or expensive cars that don't match the rest of their lives. However in NYC since not everyone has cars I'm sure there are other social signifiers such as clothing, your address (real estate) and what school your kids go to.

In the Midwest, maybe we are boring, but being upper middle class meant having of course a nice house, but it had to be nicely maintained with a nice yard and landscaping, interior. Icing on the cake was a purebred dog you walked in your suburban neighborhood or to a farmer's market type gathering. Big jewelry, expensive clothes/purses, fake tans etc were not a thing. Maybe a coach bag. But not the really expensive designer stuff or fancy high heels, or anything like that. Considered too ostentatious.

New Englanders I hear it's about one's family, connections, and real estate.

As much as the real estate prices in New England drive me insane, the frugal Yankee culture, especially among the old money crowd is refreshing. We have articles in the paper about when to
Hold out putting the heat on. A few more rural neighboring towns near be don't have trash pickup and you have to cart it to the town dump. To an outsider this seems insane but at town meeting the old time families defended it as a town tradition that would not be ruined by the new money outsiders. Saturday at the big d is always an event!


http://www.allamericanmum.com/2016/07/the-new-england-dump-tightly-held.html?m=1

Though we are elistist about education and since there are no counties every small little town of 10k or more has their own high school, zoning, town meeting, etc which does not bode well for high density development and makes for exclusive school districts. Just google lincoln ma and see what I mean

[ducky19]

Mrs. Ducky and I were having a pillow talk the other night about the number (that I know of) of my direct reports that live in $450,000 houses in an extremely affordable LCOL area in the Midwest. To be fair, they are probably all within the "3 times your salary" rule when factoring in total household income, but it just boggled our minds that they would choose to sink themselves in that much debt when there are so many options that are half that price in the area that are still super nice. We spent $210,000 on our house 4 years ago (which is waaay more than we need), but plan to have it and our rental properties paid for within 4 years (not looking to start a discussion on the merits of paying off the mortgage early, it's what will work best for us with cash flow when we FIRE in 6 years). Mrs. Ducky asked if I thought these people had the same discussions about us ("I can't believe they don't have a nicer house!"). I replied that I didn't really care, but at least they all know I'm planning on leaving within ten years (haven't shared the shorter timeline with them yet, but talk frequently about FIRE with them). While they're all driving their $50-70k prisons to work 20 years from now, I'll still be driving around an old beater - but not to the cube farm! I think the saddest part of it all for me is how "ok" they seem to be with being slaves to their fancy things. It scares me to think what might happen to them if they were to be let go in the next downturn (has happened twice in the past ten years) as there are not many employers in the area that will pay them anything close to what they're making now.