Epic FU money stories

[Sandi_k]

@jinga nation - one of the things I love about this community is its resilience. Your willingness to pay attention to Red Flag warnings is an excellent trait.

My BFF many years ago refused to go back to the job she had left, the institution where I had been able to get her introduced, temped, and later permanently employed. She went off to the private sector during the dot com bubble, and was convinced she was gonna strike it big. For various reasons (poor judgment!), she got sacked after just a month at a tech firm, and then started 2+ years of under employment. She *finally* came back, but that two year gap meant she started back as an entry level applicant, and she never advanced after that.

I am glad that you can look at the situation and make a strategic retrench decision. Having a decent organization as we eke out the last few years until FI is an excellent outcome. Fingers are crossed.

[jinga nation]

My BFF many years ago refused to go back to the job she had left, the institution where I had been able to get her introduced, temped, and later permanently employed. She went off to the private sector during the dot com bubble, and was convinced she was gonna strike it big. For various reasons (poor judgment!), she got sacked after just a month at a tech firm, and then started 2+ years of under employment. She *finally* came back, but that two year gap meant she started back as an entry level applicant, and she never advanced after that.

I am glad that you can look at the situation and make a strategic retrench decision. Having a decent organization as we eke out the last few years until FI is an excellent outcome. Fingers are crossed.

In my industry, it is very common for IT sysadmins and SW engineers to go back to a previous employer, because of cultural fit. This is normal. No eating crow or walk of shame. It's like investing: the best time to make an investment was yesterday, the second best time is today. I had lunch with ex-coworker today, who reminded me of these points.
We're both FI and were arguing in public, amicably, to try and buy the other lunch. Had to settle by the Asian Families' Rule of Payment: Oldest one gets the honor.

[Must_ache]

I work as an actuary at an insurance company, make good money, and am only about 2-4 years from calling it quits.  I could certainly stop now, but the $ and vacation are pretty good.  I have a lot of independence at work and only pester my boss when I have someone important enough to ask him.  A co-worker asks me to figure something out so I do, it's not difficult and I report my calculations and suggestions at a teleconference that my boss normally attends but isn't at this time.  I'm just sharing information, the decision will be made collectively.  Later after the meeting I send out an email with more details on the subject, and this is the first time my boss gets wind of what is going on.

I have a great boss, very smart and supportive, so let me tell you first that what you are about to hear is the exception to the rule.  He made some incorrect assumptions when he read that email and replied to everyone basically saying that I was out of line with my suggestion.  The next day as I come in three of my coworkers expressed surprise at his reaction.  I ask him why are you embarrassing me like this, I know how to do these calculations and of course I wasn't recommending what he was thinking, but something else.  It was apparent to everyone else.  Rather than apologize he doubled down and said that i should have informed him of what was going on, but the simple truth is that if he had taken three mintues to call me first and get clarification none of this would have happened.

Well I'm concerned now, and annoyed.  I do lots of things without him knowing, and if he can't trust me with X then maybe he should be seeing U, V, W, Y, and Z as well.  So I send him everything I'm working on and offer to have him involved in everything so this doesn't happen.  He proceeds to call me, and usually he is cool calm and collected but this time is it 10 seconds of poor language telling me to stop it.  Of course he calls so I don't have proof, but nevertheless I write down the essence of what he said.  Then he sends an email telling me to take the day off and cool down, to even go home if I like.

I email to him, that's alright I should have no problem writing him up to HR here at work and I spend the remaining 1/2 day writing up a word document showing the emails and how he was clearly at fault.  At this point I legitimately wonder if he will take it out on me at some point and I may as well exercise my rights.  Later on he contacts me (don't remember if it was email or phone) and doesn't apologize but says he doesn't have any issue with me, and that he has been nice to me in the past when I have complained to him (much more reasonably) about other things.  I respond by telling him that if he things we can put this behind us, it is true that he has been very good the other 99% of the time and I'll let it slide. 

So I still have the documentation lying around, but no intention of using it.  I have every reason to believe he will be reasonable, and as I only aspire to stick around a few more years there isn't much he can really do to me.  I'm the only actuary here and he would be a fool to get rid of me and put someone in here with no training of how things work.  So I was able to stand up for myself when my boss was in the wrong.  And they both worked happily ever after.  So far so good.

[LennStar]

Everyone can have a bad day (or bad week or even month) and you often don't know what it is. (And everyone is a asshole from time to time.)

I once, for about 3-4 months had quite high blood pressure. (Which, contrary was others say, is not the reason for being "loud".) Reason? My father was dying = stress. 

Would I have talked about that at work? Probably not at all.
If your boss has been good for years, it's unlikely that will change.

[charis]

@Must_ache, I would recommend that you email that document to your HR rep and indicate that you would like the issue to be documented but you do not wish to take action at this time because you were able to resolve it with your boss verbally and are currently satisfied with his response.  A contemporaneous writing carries more weight than if you have to produce this document later if something else occurs.  I understand you aren't too concerned right now, but he's unwillingness to apologize, note of his prior niceness, and reference to your history of complaints suggests to me that he has already spoken to HR about this situation.

[Taran Wanderer]

I’d hold off on the HR notification. There are lots of other stressors that could have tilted your boss to reacting negatively. Remember, the boss is a person, too. Maybe there are upper management pressures or demands. Maybe there is something going on in his personal life. If you’ve worked for/with this person for a long time, could you ask for a phone call and then ask him if he’s doing okay?  It sounds like you’re ratcheting things up which will only increase the pressure on him.  Definitely keep the documentation and be ready to use if you need it, but treat your boss like a person first, like you would like to be treated if you ever crossed the line.

[charis]

I’d hold off on the HR notification. There are lots of other stressors that could have tilted your boss to reacting negatively. Remember, the boss is a person, too. Maybe there are upper management pressures or demands. Maybe there is something going on in his personal life. If you’ve worked for/with this person for a long time, could you ask for a phone call and then ask him if he’s doing okay?  It sounds like you’re ratcheting things up which will only increase the pressure on him.  Definitely keep the documentation and be ready to use if you need it, but treat your boss like a person first, like you would like to be treated if you ever crossed the line.

Based on my experience with employment disputes, I'm fairly confident that the boss contacted HR right after the OP mentioned it first and he probably received advice on how to respond.

[scottish]

I’d hold off on the HR notification. There are lots of other stressors that could have tilted your boss to reacting negatively. Remember, the boss is a person, too. Maybe there are upper management pressures or demands. Maybe there is something going on in his personal life. If you’ve worked for/with this person for a long time, could you ask for a phone call and then ask him if he’s doing okay?  It sounds like you’re ratcheting things up which will only increase the pressure on him.  Definitely keep the documentation and be ready to use if you need it, but treat your boss like a person first, like you would like to be treated if you ever crossed the line.

Based on my experience with employment disputes, I'm fairly confident that the boss contacted HR right after the OP mentioned it first and he probably received advice on how to respond.

Yep the job of HR is to protect the company from the employees.   "Who is more credible?" they will ask.  (hint:  it's not you) 

But it sounds like your boss was just having a bad week.   If this is the first time he's freaked out, so what?   Maybe his kid is sick or his wife is leaving him or his mom is dying or something totally unrelated to work.   If it becomes a habit, that's when action is required.

[Captain FIRE]

If you want a contemporaneous record, you can always email it to yourself.

If you send something to HR, they may have to take action on something even if you ask them not to. Depends on what you send (and at some places, depends on the person who receives it, if they want to take action or not).

If you had a rare one off event, I wouldn't stress out. Could be many personal things going on.

[jinga nation]

If you had a rare one off event, I wouldn't stress out. Could be many personal things going on.

An ex-boss, who's a really awesome guy, suddenly started acting weirdly, barking out instructions verbally in meetings and in writing. I was the first recipient of it, but others noticed it too. I reached out; turns out he was dealing with stress from illness of a parent, and the death of another close relative. Asked him how we could help; the team ended managing themselves while he took a week off, and divided some of his tasks.

But it sounds like your boss was just having a bad week.   If this is the first time he's freaked out, so what?   Maybe his kid is sick or his wife is leaving him or his mom is dying or something totally unrelated to work.   If it becomes a habit, that's when action is required.

+1

[zolotiyeruki]

LennStar is right--bad days can happen to anyone.  If you've gone this long without experiencing a boss's bad day, you're probably in a good place.  And it's good that you seem to have a reasonably open line of communication with your boss.  Apologizing is also really hard for a lot of people, so take the non-apology for the win that it is.

A wise man once said "He who takes offense when none is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when it *is* intended is a *great* fool."

One of the privileges of having FU money (and, alternatively, knowing your value to the company) is that you don't have to care about office politics.  And this incident is 100% office politics--your boss has egg on his face for jumping to an incorrect conclusion.  He might have other issues he's dealing with.

My advice?
1) Keep that documentation safe.  Email it to yourself so you have that documentation in case you need it in the future
2) Give the boss the benefit of the doubt.  Also, reach out and ask what the two of you can do to avoid similar conflict in the future, and how you (both) can handle it better if a similar situation arises again. 
3) Keep doing your job as well as you can.

[Must_ache]

That tale was 3-4 weeks ago, and things have been pretty harmonious since then. 

[Laura33]

If you had a rare one off event, I wouldn't stress out. Could be many personal things going on.

An ex-boss, who's a really awesome guy, suddenly started acting weirdly, barking out instructions verbally in meetings and in writing. I was the first recipient of it, but others noticed it too. I reached out; turns out he was dealing with stress from illness of a parent, and the death of another close relative. Asked him how we could help; the team ended managing themselves while he took a week off, and divided some of his tasks.

+1.  It's perfectly ok to say "is something up?  This isn't like you."  (Indeed, it was when my former mentor asked me that question that I was forced to acknowledge that I was in the middle of a major depression and needed help to pull myself out).

But in any event, congrats for being in a position where you felt like you could stand firm.

[AlanStache]

Great that it was isolated, just be aware if "one time" becomes more regular.  Patterns and habits can quickly form, sometimes when it is "just one bad day" here and there because they are having some troubles but the underlying troubles dont get resolved.  Then 3 months down the line you are left trying to change something that has become normal. 

[jinga nation]

If you had a rare one off event, I wouldn't stress out. Could be many personal things going on.

An ex-boss, who's a really awesome guy, suddenly started acting weirdly, barking out instructions verbally in meetings and in writing. I was the first recipient of it, but others noticed it too. I reached out; turns out he was dealing with stress from illness of a parent, and the death of another close relative. Asked him how we could help; the team ended managing themselves while he took a week off, and divided some of his tasks.

+1.  It's perfectly ok to say "is something up?  This isn't like you."  (Indeed, it was when my former mentor asked me that question that I was forced to acknowledge that I was in the middle of a major depression and needed help to pull myself out).

But in any event, congrats for being in a position where you felt like you could stand firm.

Working in the DoD, we have annual training to remind us of significant behavior changes. They are to be reported. They could amount to nothing, or something bigger. In the worst cases, undetected/unreported behavior indicators can lead to compromising information and a threat to national security.

Wife's a CPA; she has similar annual training. It seems that behavior changes in the corporate world are encouraged to be reported.

[BuffaloStache]

...
Working in the DoD, we have annual training to remind us of significant behavior changes. They are to be reported. They could amount to nothing, or something bigger. In the worst cases, undetected/unreported behavior indicators can lead to compromising information and a threat to national security.

Wife's a CPA; she has similar annual training. It seems that behavior changes in the corporate world are encouraged to be reported.

While I don't disagree (and I've taken similar training), I want to add that in my experience "employees being encouraged to report behavior changes"/actually reporting something very rarely = meaningful receipt of that report and successful resolution or support of the reportee by HR or the company writ large. While I've never reported anything myself to HR, I've been on the sidelines a couple of times and seen HR departments at several different companies either: do nothing, overreact, make drastic hierarchy changes that make lots of other employees lives suck, or even immediately side with the manager and launch a counter-investigation into the reportee. I understand it's likely different in the DoD world where it may be mandatory, but I still have doubts that any corporate HR department will react in a supporting and/or appropriate manner.

I like the recommendation of others to email the document to yourself, so you have record of when the document was compiled, etc. If it does happen again/more repeatedly, you could also try reporting this person ~1 month before you retire (because the consequences of a bad reaction from HR effectively won't matter to you anymore). My wife did this when she left a toxic working environment for a new job a while back, and I think it was the right move.

[jinga nation]

BLUF: Planning on leaving a well-paid job due to false promises, bad contracting, and insufficient staffing, while being able to sleep well and not worry. That's FU Money power.

Not epic, so far, but could be as things happen...

Started with a new company recently, huge raise from previous employer.
The technical lead on this project and the project manager, who don't work for my employer, told my corporate boss that I should be more proactive and accept additional tasks and it'll be great for my career. This is only 30 days in, while I still didn't have access to the SW development tools, accounts, etc, and was going thru the customer site's processes. My corporate boss and his boss started raising their voices in the meeting, without listening to me. Red Flag 1.
New position's requirements were A, B, C. Now they've added D, E, F, G to it. I've pushed back. They know I'm not going to fold. I know they don't like my attitude. Also want me to work on software sales (which I have zero training in, and don't know the product). Red Flag 2.
During recruiting, was told that I'd be a member of a team (employees of other companies) which was fully staffed and that I was to be at the customer site daily. (Don't have an issue with the commute, I enjoy a hybrid/onsite schedule.) Turns out that everyone on this team works multiple contracts, and none of them are full-time onsite, not even 50%. Plus, the other teams I'm supposed to work with onsite, they work from home 3+ days a week. So I'm wondering how do I get tasks accomplished, especially since most of my work is on internal networks that are inaccessible from home. Red Flag 3.
I was told that I'd be starting my own team soon. The contract I'm on is up for renewal in a couple of months, and it'll get renewed. But the idea of building my team is dead, that plan was hijacked by another larger firm on the same contract. My employer knew this, but didn't tell me. Red Flag 4.

Wrote down pros/cons of old employer vs new one. Discussed with my wife. Talked to ex-coworkers, my old position hasn't been filled. Ex-employer has trouble filling openings. Ex-CW-1 is going to talk to his boss, my ex-boss, to have me come back. Informed Ex-CW-2 about new employer's Red Flags, as they're trying to recruit them. Ex-CW-1 gets to collect hiring bonus bounty on me.

I told wife not to worry, there aren't enough IT/SW engineers with DoD clearance, that I'd be getting LinkedIn offers like crazy if I set my profile to #OpenToWork. Also we have enough in emergency account that I don't have to work for a couple of years. We're technically FI. House is paid off. Rental income covers our living expenses. I could stay home, work out daily, longer bike rides, cook 3 meals daily, do yard work, get bathrooms renovated, start the vegetable/herb garden we've always wanted, volunteer at the school. And spend time with my retired dad. Told my wife it'd be my dream come true to be a house husband / kept man / soccer-sports dad.
With the political bumfuckery in my state, I could even home school my kids, if their very good schools got proper fucked.

UPDATE: ex-CW-1 said ex-boss wants me to return and will reach out. Meeting ex-CW-1 tomorrow to discuss more.

UPDATE2: talked to ex-boss today. They want me back; we talked compensation and start date. Fingers crossed. Initially getting my old position, plus additional responsibilities to work part-time with an automation team - something that I had wanted to do last year but could contractually. They won a new long-term contract and more, opening up possibilities to pick & choose what I can dabble in. Have fun AND get paid.

Update: Old boss contacted me later in the week. It's 99.9%, pending confirmation from CEO/CTO. Written offer ETA Monday.

Meanwhile, I've suddenly become Big Man^TM. The tech lead has some family health stuff going on, so he's out for who knows how long. The PM has this habit of disappearing on Fridays when tech lead is out. In a bi-weekly meeting, come to find out that project hours are overburn, and work that is beyond my abilities and job description is being dumped on me, everyone else's hours are cut and they're put on other projects (they can't cut mine due to contractual bindings). I've started saying "yes" to everything. And when the notice drops, I'll be watching the PM scramble to get these folks back on this project and deliver. 
Meanwhile, the customer processes are shit and burning out the good, young, inexperienced engineers, who've been complaining to me. I've been guiding them to make it Other People's Problem. And the best way to solve it is to make it the problem of someone a level or two above their lead.

[BicycleB]

@jinga nation, that's epic indeed!

Glad you're being a good mentor on your way out the door. Early in career, I think that just having a trustworthy senior explain things like how to pass the buck and defend against task creep are really important / super effin' awesome.

Of course, it'd be really amazing to pass on the concept of FIRE and maybe a website link or two. Have fun on your last week (or however long it turns out to be) at your new employer.

Looking forward to the official report of Big Man^TM's Mic Drop moment.

[Alfred J Quack]

Not sure this is going to be an epic FU story but it's ongoing so we'll see.

I'm in a big project, our ERP system is being upgraded and I'm responsible for the integrations with other applications. The project is going pretty badly, no technical or functional design was needed according to our manager and as you can expect we're suffering for it during the project.
So bad that pretty much the entire project leadership has been replaced one way or another, including my manager, the lead I was reporting to etc. While we're approaching acceptance we still only have one working integration with the other three main ones coming along.
I've been warning, for months now, that other applications that are not directly connected also need to be tested but it's fallen on deaf ears. My responsibility is the technical workings of the integrations, functional workings are explicitly not.

The main joy I've had from this project was the time where I was working in depth  in figuring out how the API worked. Dumping it's contents into Excel, CSV, SQL, whatever. In the past months I've gotten feedback from at least 2 vendors that they really had uses for the scripts I've written, including a Q&A session with the Enterprise Architect of the Microsoft Partner for Business Central solutions. I was like wtf!
I've also gotten direct and indirect comments that my work was being used with other customers (which was fine) and really gave me a confidence boost. So much so that I decided to apply for a job as an integrations developer for a local company.

Here comes the FU money part: I basically wrote my coverletter like "I make programs with powershell to integrate API's, here's my Github and let me know if you can use me."
Next day I see 7 clones (0 up until then) and the day after that I get an invite for a talk with their HR.
In the call I basically state I'm willing to work for them but that I need regular time off for my youngest son (down's syndrome with lots of care appointments) and that I use specific hardware because I'm sensitive to overstim (e-ink display, ANC headphones). So far so good, I'm on to the 2nd of 3 rounds 😗

[BicycleB]

Well done, @Alfred J Quack! Both that you applied and that in the interview you made your needs known.

[Turtle]

This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.

Backstory:  Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition.  That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked.  Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.

He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically.   So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.

At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away.  All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.

Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out.  He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in.  This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level.  Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.

Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is.  In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still.  This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses.  All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know.  What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.

[jinga nation]

This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.

Backstory:  Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition.  That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked.  Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.

He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically.   So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.

At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away.  All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.

Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out.  He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in.  This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level.  Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.

Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is.  In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still.  This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses.  All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know.  What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.

Bigger FU AND assert dominance: Get the Bachelor's Degree, return to BigBoxStore company, and get hired as the idiot's boss in due time.
Corporate transfer overrule policies are utter BS.
Can nephew make a handshake deal with manager at other store. Quit current one, then get hired at the new one?

[jinga nation]

BLUF: Planning on leaving a well-paid job due to false promises, bad contracting, and insufficient staffing, while being able to sleep well and not worry. That's FU Money power.

Not epic, so far, but could be as things happen...

Started with a new company recently, huge raise from previous employer.
The technical lead on this project and the project manager, who don't work for my employer, told my corporate boss that I should be more proactive and accept additional tasks and it'll be great for my career. This is only 30 days in, while I still didn't have access to the SW development tools, accounts, etc, and was going thru the customer site's processes. My corporate boss and his boss started raising their voices in the meeting, without listening to me. Red Flag 1.
New position's requirements were A, B, C. Now they've added D, E, F, G to it. I've pushed back. They know I'm not going to fold. I know they don't like my attitude. Also want me to work on software sales (which I have zero training in, and don't know the product). Red Flag 2.
During recruiting, was told that I'd be a member of a team (employees of other companies) which was fully staffed and that I was to be at the customer site daily. (Don't have an issue with the commute, I enjoy a hybrid/onsite schedule.) Turns out that everyone on this team works multiple contracts, and none of them are full-time onsite, not even 50%. Plus, the other teams I'm supposed to work with onsite, they work from home 3+ days a week. So I'm wondering how do I get tasks accomplished, especially since most of my work is on internal networks that are inaccessible from home. Red Flag 3.
I was told that I'd be starting my own team soon. The contract I'm on is up for renewal in a couple of months, and it'll get renewed. But the idea of building my team is dead, that plan was hijacked by another larger firm on the same contract. My employer knew this, but didn't tell me. Red Flag 4.

Wrote down pros/cons of old employer vs new one. Discussed with my wife. Talked to ex-coworkers, my old position hasn't been filled. Ex-employer has trouble filling openings. Ex-CW-1 is going to talk to his boss, my ex-boss, to have me come back. Informed Ex-CW-2 about new employer's Red Flags, as they're trying to recruit them. Ex-CW-1 gets to collect hiring bonus bounty on me.

I told wife not to worry, there aren't enough IT/SW engineers with DoD clearance, that I'd be getting LinkedIn offers like crazy if I set my profile to #OpenToWork. Also we have enough in emergency account that I don't have to work for a couple of years. We're technically FI. House is paid off. Rental income covers our living expenses. I could stay home, work out daily, longer bike rides, cook 3 meals daily, do yard work, get bathrooms renovated, start the vegetable/herb garden we've always wanted, volunteer at the school. And spend time with my retired dad. Told my wife it'd be my dream come true to be a house husband / kept man / soccer-sports dad.
With the political bumfuckery in my state, I could even home school my kids, if their very good schools got proper fucked.

UPDATE: ex-CW-1 said ex-boss wants me to return and will reach out. Meeting ex-CW-1 tomorrow to discuss more.

UPDATE2: talked to ex-boss today. They want me back; we talked compensation and start date. Fingers crossed. Initially getting my old position, plus additional responsibilities to work part-time with an automation team - something that I had wanted to do last year but could contractually. They won a new long-term contract and more, opening up possibilities to pick & choose what I can dabble in. Have fun AND get paid.

Update: Old boss contacted me later in the week. It's 99.9%, pending confirmation from CEO/CTO. Written offer ETA Monday.

Meanwhile, I've suddenly become Big Man^TM. The tech lead has some family health stuff going on, so he's out for who knows how long. The PM has this habit of disappearing on Fridays when tech lead is out. In a bi-weekly meeting, come to find out that project hours are overburn, and work that is beyond my abilities and job description is being dumped on me, everyone else's hours are cut and they're put on other projects (they can't cut mine due to contractual bindings). I've started saying "yes" to everything. And when the notice drops, I'll be watching the PM scramble to get these folks back on this project and deliver. 
Meanwhile, the customer processes are shit and burning out the good, young, inexperienced engineers, who've been complaining to me. I've been guiding them to make it Other People's Problem. And the best way to solve it is to make it the problem of someone a level or two above their lead.

Update: Got offer. Signed. Done. Getting my old laptop back from ex-boss soon. He's planning to surprise the team by inviting me to an employee chill-out event next week. Only ex-CW-1 knows but is keeping mum.

Meanwhile, it seems no one at this customer wants to do work, everyone passing the buck. They wanted me to work the security assessor's tasks; I gave a polite "i'll bear it in mind". Ref: https://www.angmohdan.com/48-things-british-people-say-and-what-they-actually-mean/
 
Taking a couple of days off for some family time. Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Then taking a week off between the jobs, get a couple of home projects completed. It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

[RyanAtTanagra]

Update: Got offer. Signed. Done. Getting my old laptop back from ex-boss soon. He's planning to surprise the team by inviting me to an employee chill-out event next week. Only ex-CW-1 knows but is keeping mum.

Meanwhile, it seems no one at this customer wants to do work, everyone passing the buck. They wanted me to work the security assessor's tasks; I gave a polite "i'll bear it in mind". Ref: https://www.angmohdan.com/48-things-british-people-say-and-what-they-actually-mean/
 
Taking a couple of days off for some family time. Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Then taking a week off between the jobs, get a couple of home projects completed. It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

Nice, congrats!  It's hard to go back to an old job without some animosity on their part, so their excitement speaks well to both your reputation, and how you handled your original departure.

[Adventine]

Congrats @jinga nation !

[BicycleB]

Wahoo, @jinga nation!!

[jinga nation]

Update: Got offer. Signed. Done. Getting my old laptop back from ex-boss soon. He's planning to surprise the team by inviting me to an employee chill-out event next week. Only ex-CW-1 knows but is keeping mum.

Meanwhile, it seems no one at this customer wants to do work, everyone passing the buck. They wanted me to work the security assessor's tasks; I gave a polite "i'll bear it in mind". Ref: https://www.angmohdan.com/48-things-british-people-say-and-what-they-actually-mean/
 
Taking a couple of days off for some family time. Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Then taking a week off between the jobs, get a couple of home projects completed. It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

Nice, congrats!  It's hard to go back to an old job without some animosity on their part, so their excitement speaks well to both your reputation, and how you handled your original departure.

I had an excellent 5+ years at the company, learned a lot, great mentors and amazing co-workers. Upon my leaving, the CEO gave a written offer for me to return, at any time.

I left only because a stupidly crazy offer came, which I rejected the first time, then took it the second time. It was something that I thought I'd live to regret because I was getting a chance to work with a company known for innovation. Unfortunately, due to several red flags, it didn't work out. People don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers. Or something like that.

[Valley of Plenty]

It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.

In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."

[Alfred J Quack]

It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.

In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."

I had that a while back, scheduled deposits to savings was set a bit too agressively where it got transferred to my stash on the exact day it was payday. Problem was, my bank processes outgoing before incoming so with days where paydays on the latest possible day my balance went to close to 0 (or the different scheduled savings deposits bounced).
Since then I've adjusted the schedule to process 1 day after payday.

Transfer from savings is immediately active so no harm done 😂

[zolotiyeruki]

It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.

In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."

I had that a while back, scheduled deposits to savings was set a bit too agressively where it got transferred to my stash on the exact day it was payday. Problem was, my bank processes outgoing before incoming so with days where paydays on the latest possible day my balance went to close to 0 (or the different scheduled savings deposits bounced).
Since then I've adjusted the schedule to process 1 day after payday.

Transfer from savings is immediately active so no harm done 😂

That sounds like a good candidate to submit to the Mustachian People Problems thread.

[AccidentialMustache]

I am enjoying my leave of absence.

Well, no, not today. Today I kinda feel like garbage because I slept poorly, because DW stress-dumped on me about the tween-DS's stress dump on DW about how kids in his middle school are talking about bailing for various other magnate schools around. DS's schools so far (only two, the previous and this middle school) have had retention problems so all his friends seem to leave for one reason or another.

But I'm on leave so... I just plan to get nothing done today. Immediate problem solved, longer term problem still to deal with. Admittedly, if I was still at work, I could just take a mental health day... but that's only effective if I wasn't on call.

Which is exactly the problem that FU money is solving for me. Even if I should have solved it sooner.

[Siebrie]

Not really 'epic', but something I was comfortable asking because I have enough money in the bank: parental leave (I'm in Belgium). I have 3 months left of parental leave for my youngest daughter, who turns 12 this Saturday. Starting today (the last possible day, just before she turns 12), I will spread the leave out and work 1/5 less for 15 months, divided over the whole workweek: I'll work 9-4 Mo, Tu, Th, Fr, and 9-12 We. It will of course cut my pay and benefits by 1/5, too, but that's fine. We will manage nicely.

It may even be benificial, because I have more time to organise the family, our home, hobbies, trips, cooking, kitchen gardening, etc.

[Turtle]

Not really 'epic', but something I was comfortable asking because I have enough money in the bank: parental leave (I'm in Belgium). I have 3 months left of parental leave for my youngest daughter, who turns 12 this Saturday. Starting today (the last possible day, just before she turns 12), I will spread the leave out and work 1/5 less for 15 months, divided over the whole workweek: I'll work 9-4 Mo, Tu, Th, Fr, and 9-12 We. It will of course cut my pay and benefits by 1/5, too, but that's fine. We will manage nicely.

It may even be benificial, because I have more time to organise the family, our home, hobbies, trips, cooking, kitchen gardening, etc.

That sounds ideal.  I'm glad you are able to take advantage of it.

[Gronnie]

It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.

In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."

I had that a while back, scheduled deposits to savings was set a bit too agressively where it got transferred to my stash on the exact day it was payday. Problem was, my bank processes outgoing before incoming so with days where paydays on the latest possible day my balance went to close to 0 (or the different scheduled savings deposits bounced).
Since then I've adjusted the schedule to process 1 day after payday.

Transfer from savings is immediately active so no harm done 😂

I'm surprised to hear outgoing before ingoing is legal in the Netherlands. Even here in super business friendly USA that practice has been outlawed.

[ChickenStash]

My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).

The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.

I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :( I was pretty bummed. Then it hit me... Why am I so bummed about a job I had such a struggle to convince myself to even apply for? And if the current gig goes away, who cares! I can be unemployed for a few years with no changes to my lifestyle (longer if I cut out some rather spendy hobbies). My spending is low enough I could also just coastFIRE for a few extra years in a simpler job and still fully retire pretty early.

I've logically known it while thinking in the abstract but when the situation actually happened it was a minor revelation to realize I'm in a position where I really don't have to care much about what these other people do or think. I can't completely remove myself from the nonsense (FIRE), yet, but having the resources opens up so many options that these bumps really don't matter.

[Gronnie]

The fact that you had bad experiences there in the past combined with the fact that they put you through multiple rounds before saying no even with a referral from a director makes it seem like (at least to me) that you dodged a pretty big bullet there.

[Turtle]

Update: Got offer. Signed. Done. Getting my old laptop back from ex-boss soon. He's planning to surprise the team by inviting me to an employee chill-out event next week. Only ex-CW-1 knows but is keeping mum.

Meanwhile, it seems no one at this customer wants to do work, everyone passing the buck. They wanted me to work the security assessor's tasks; I gave a polite "i'll bear it in mind". Ref: https://www.angmohdan.com/48-things-british-people-say-and-what-they-actually-mean/
 
Taking a couple of days off for some family time. Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Then taking a week off between the jobs, get a couple of home projects completed. It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

Nice, congrats!  It's hard to go back to an old job without some animosity on their part, so their excitement speaks well to both your reputation, and how you handled your original departure.

I had an excellent 5+ years at the company, learned a lot, great mentors and amazing co-workers. Upon my leaving, the CEO gave a written offer for me to return, at any time.

I left only because a stupidly crazy offer came, which I rejected the first time, then took it the second time. It was something that I thought I'd live to regret because I was getting a chance to work with a company known for innovation. Unfortunately, due to several red flags, it didn't work out. People don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers. Or something like that.

Congrats!  Sometimes leaving and returning also brings salary more in line with where it should be.  Hope that is the case for you.

[BicycleB]

My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).

The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.

I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :( I was pretty bummed. Then it hit me... Why am I so bummed about a job I had such a struggle to convince myself to even apply for? And if the current gig goes away, who cares! I can be unemployed for a few years with no changes to my lifestyle (longer if I cut out some rather spendy hobbies). My spending is low enough I could also just coastFIRE for a few extra years in a simpler job and still fully retire pretty early.

I've logically known it while thinking in the abstract but when the situation actually happened it was a minor revelation to realize I'm in a position where I really don't have to care much about what these other people do or think. I can't completely remove myself from the nonsense (FIRE), yet, but having the resources opens up so many options that these bumps really don't matter.

Congrats, @ChickenStash!

Welcome to the Lower Blood Pressure Zone.

[Alfred J Quack]

It's crazy, at least to my wife and me, that missing out on a couple of thousand dollars of a week's earnings doesn't faze us. That's one of the powers of FU money, and living below your means.

I often forget that the average person is one missed paycheck away from being late on bills, and a couple months of missed paychecks away from financial insolvency.

In the midst of COVID I had some coworkers who were in a panic due to employer's COVID leave policy (couldn't come to work if you had any symptoms, had to file claim for short term disability, would receive full pay after claim got approved) because if they missed a single paycheck they would be unable to put food on the table. Heck, in the last month I've seen two coworkers' debit cards get declined when trying to buy a soda out of the break room vending machine the day before payday. "What?! I could have sworn I had enough money in there..."

I had that a while back, scheduled deposits to savings was set a bit too agressively where it got transferred to my stash on the exact day it was payday. Problem was, my bank processes outgoing before incoming so with days where paydays on the latest possible day my balance went to close to 0 (or the different scheduled savings deposits bounced).
Since then I've adjusted the schedule to process 1 day after payday.

Transfer from savings is immediately active so no harm done 😂

I'm surprised to hear outgoing before ingoing is legal in the Netherlands. Even here in super business friendly USA that practice has been outlawed.

I made an output from my banks transfers and limited myself to the 25th (payday), most of the time the bank handles my scheduled savings (within the same account) before incoming and outgoing last. There are a few where outgoing is handled before incoming, assuming the output corresponds with the processing order.

I'm assuming that the process order is correct because the balance remaining corresponds with the previous transaction.

[jinga nation]

BLUF: Planning on leaving a well-paid job due to false promises, bad contracting, and insufficient staffing, while being able to sleep well and not worry. That's FU Money power.

Not epic, so far, but could be as things happen...

<snip>

Update: Old boss contacted me later in the week. It's 99.9%, pending confirmation from CEO/CTO. Written offer ETA Monday.

<snip>

Update: Got offer. Signed. Done.

<snip>
 
Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
<snip>

Final Update: Gave in my approx 2 week resignation notice today. They asked that I work the rest of the week, then I'm out. I was OK with that.
Then a little bit later, they said tomorrow was to be my last day. Had a call with HR; pointed out that the employee handbook states:

When an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.

HR said they couldn't afford to keep me on overhead since the (external) contract PM wanted my last day to be tomorrow.

So much for professional courtesy. Next time, a 24H notice should suffice. And then they asked me to fill out an exit survey.

2.5 weeks for home improvement projects and long cycling rides. Then I'll start the new position. Thanks FU money.

[Turtle]

BLUF: Planning on leaving a well-paid job due to false promises, bad contracting, and insufficient staffing, while being able to sleep well and not worry. That's FU Money power.

Not epic, so far, but could be as things happen...

<snip>

Update: Old boss contacted me later in the week. It's 99.9%, pending confirmation from CEO/CTO. Written offer ETA Monday.

<snip>

Update: Got offer. Signed. Done.

<snip>
 
Giving my notice in Monday, a professional 2 weeks courtesy. It isn't a rule, but my industry is a smallish niche world and people are within half the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
<snip>

Final Update: Gave in my approx 2 week resignation notice today. They asked that I work the rest of the week, then I'm out. I was OK with that.
Then a little bit later, they said tomorrow was to be my last day. Had a call with HR; pointed out that the employee handbook states:

When an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.

HR said they couldn't afford to keep me on overhead since the (external) contract PM wanted my last day to be tomorrow.

So much for professional courtesy. Next time, a 24H notice should suffice. And then they asked me to fill out an exit survey.

2.5 weeks for home improvement projects and long cycling rides. Then I'll start the new position. Thanks FU money.

That stinks that they had to stoop that low at the end.  Makes it more obvious that you made the right choice, though.

My brother had that happen once when giving 2 weeks notice.  However, in his case the large multi-national company where he was working had a policy of paying out the 2 weeks regardless of whether or not the person remained in the office for those 2 weeks.  It was management discretion whether or not to send the employee home early.

The laws on that probably vary from state to state, and I'm not sure what the law actually is for his state with regards to paying out notice periods.

[zolotiyeruki]

When an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.

HR said they couldn't afford to keep me on overhead since the (external) contract PM wanted my last day to be tomorrow.

So much for professional courtesy. Next time, a 24H notice should suffice. And then they asked me to fill out an exit survey.

2.5 weeks for home improvement projects and long cycling rides. Then I'll start the new position. Thanks FU money.

This is the type of information that needs to be spread among all the employees, starting NOW. Make sure that every employee knows that if they are ready to quit, they might as well give zero notice, since the company isn't going to pay them for the two weeks anyway.

Hang on, is that even legal for them to lay you off without pay the next day after you gave them two weeks' notice?  I mean, the "two week notice" requirement in the company policy would support the idea that they can't just cut you off.  And if they tell you to buzz off after one day, does that not count as involuntary separation and qualify you for unemployment benefits?

[RWD]

When an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.

HR said they couldn't afford to keep me on overhead since the (external) contract PM wanted my last day to be tomorrow.

So much for professional courtesy. Next time, a 24H notice should suffice. And then they asked me to fill out an exit survey.

2.5 weeks for home improvement projects and long cycling rides. Then I'll start the new position. Thanks FU money.

This is the type of information that needs to be spread among all the employees, starting NOW. Make sure that every employee knows that if they are ready to quit, they might as well give zero notice, since the company isn't going to pay them for the two weeks anyway.

Hang on, is that even legal for them to lay you off without pay the next day after you gave them two weeks' notice?  I mean, the "two week notice" requirement in the company policy would support the idea that they can't just cut you off.  And if they tell you to buzz off after one day, does that not count as involuntary separation and qualify you for unemployment benefits?

Probably at-will employment.

[TomTX]

Final Update: Gave in my approx 2 week resignation notice today. They asked that I work the rest of the week, then I'm out. I was OK with that.
Then a little bit later, they said tomorrow was to be my last day. Had a call with HR; pointed out that the employee handbook states:

When an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.

You're likely entitled to unemployment payments for those 2 weeks - they fired you, and it was not "for cause"

[dhc]

Final Update: Gave in my approx 2 week resignation notice today. They asked that I work the rest of the week, then I'm out. I was OK with that.
Then a little bit later, they said tomorrow was to be my last day. Had a call with HR; pointed out that the employee handbook states:

When an employee decides to leave, their manager and Human Resources should be immediately notified. The employee will provide <employer> with a written two-week notice.

You're likely entitled to unemployment payments for those 2 weeks - they fired you, and it was not "for cause"

And if applying for unemployment sounds like a hassle, know that getting it likely increases their UI premiums, so it’s worth it if you’re feeling a bit vengeful.

[jinga nation]

@RWD you're right, at-will.

@Turtle yep, they showed their true colors. Better to have found out early on than later.

@dhc @TomTX @zolotiyeruki it's a right-to-work state. I'm not a petty person out to spite them. It just ain't worth it for 2.5 weeks of pay. Even if I was to win UI, the monies wouldn't amount to 0.25% of our net worth. Amazing what LBYM can do, having emergency funds, and all those prudent things.

But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)

It'll be a huge hassle to file UI, document, etc. I'd rather do more productive things around the house and garden and go for long bike rides.

[iluvzbeach]

@RWD you're right, at-will.

@Turtle yep, they showed their true colors. My future boss, aka old boss at ex-employer, said this company made a shitty move.

@dhc @TomTX [member=8971]zolotiyeruki[/member] it's a right-to-work state. I'm not a petty person out to spite them. It just ain't worth it for 2.5 weeks of pay. Even if I was to win UI, the monies wouldn't amount to 0.25% of our net worth. Amazing what LBYM can do, having emergency funds, and all those prudent things.

But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)

It'll be a huge hassle to file UI, document, etc. I'd rather do more productive things around the house and garden and go for long bike rides.

@jinga nation …and that, my friends, is the beauty of having FU money! No need to create a stressful battle when one can afford to be playing outside and riding bikes.

[AlanStache]

But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)

I would not assume that the survey is anonymous and would remember that it could get shared around and be read by someone out of context or get selectively edited. 

[jinga nation]

But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)

I would not assume that the survey is anonymous and would remember that it could get shared around and be read by someone out of context or get selectively edited.

It isn’t anonymous. I’ve never burned bridges in the past, and I don’t intend to. My survey responses will be professional and direct. No personal attacks.

My internal voice is singing: https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0 and https://youtu.be/cE4lpSFNFUE

[BicycleB]

Watched that first link and it's HILARIOUS.