Author Topic: Epic FU money stories  (Read 2798858 times)

HawkeyeNFO

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 347
  • Location: Moose Scrotum, Alberta
  • Retired at 44.....back to work at 45
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4250 on: March 16, 2022, 10:18:39 AM »
FUCK YEAH, Swordguy!

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8956
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4251 on: March 16, 2022, 10:25:18 AM »
Swordguy - would you consider starting a new thread devoted to this (if there is not one already) so we can have one consolidated reference?

Per your request:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories-to-help-others/

Shane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
  • Location: Midtown
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4252 on: March 16, 2022, 10:33:34 AM »
Go SwordGuy!

gooki

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2917
  • Location: NZ
    • My FIRE journal
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4253 on: March 16, 2022, 11:21:01 PM »
And continuing on from my wife's epic FU story. She's now poached one of her former colleagues.

Apparently my wifes old manager is furious. Wife's response was classic on hearing this "I don't care, she hated me already".

RyanAtTanagra

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Location: Sierra Mountains
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4254 on: March 17, 2022, 09:32:20 AM »
And continuing on from my wife's epic FU story. She's now poached one of her former colleagues.

Apparently my wifes old manager is furious. Wife's response was classic on hearing this "I don't care, she hated me already".

The ultimate FU, when you continue to F them after you're gone.  Love it.

bob2021

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4255 on: March 29, 2022, 11:15:43 AM »
My FU story is not contentious, but I like to think it worked out pretty well for me. I've been waiting to write this for the last 2 years :-).

Backstory:
In 2018 we were approaching "our number" and starting to look at what we wanted retirement to look like (I found MMM in 2013 and it clearly articulated a lot of thoughts I had about being FI by 50). We lived near downtown in a good sized city and were looking for something a little more relaxed. We couldn't agree on where we wanted to go and I thought we might actually stay where we were. In 2019, some friends of ours had picked up and moved to a small community with great outdoors (skiing, golf, hiking, lakes, etc all close by). After talking to them, we bought a lot and decided to build a house.

I had "the talk" with my boss that I was moving in 2020 and intending to quit. Within a couple days, HR wanted to talk. HR and a couple leaders I worked for wanted to know if there was a scenario where I would stay. We agreed that I'd work 3 days a week, and spend one week a month in the corporate office. At 42, and after 2 years of this (and because of COVID, I haven't been to the office since moving), I've decided I'm done and told my boss I'm leaving at the end of June. I've got a new part-time "job" that hardly even counts as it has extreme flexibility and is something I've been volunteering with already. So, nothing contentious, but FI has allowed us to end up in a place better than we imagined, and I was able to squeeze out some pretty good work terms while I OMY'd a couple times (and stress went way down once my "give a f*ck meter" got recalibrated).

Shane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
  • Location: Midtown
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4256 on: March 29, 2022, 12:56:14 PM »
Congrats, bob! Good for you. Hope you enjoy your retirement.

BicycleB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5263
  • Location: Coolest Neighborhood on Earth, They Say
  • Older than the internet, but not wiser... yet
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4257 on: March 29, 2022, 04:22:52 PM »
Great story, @bob2021!

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22322
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4258 on: March 29, 2022, 08:49:24 PM »
L love it when someone drops the invisibility cloak of lurkdom to throw down a tale as good as that. Congratulations @bob2021!

shingy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 70
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4259 on: May 22, 2022, 09:17:36 AM »
I love this thread, but it's been too quiet lately. There's gotta be some epic FU stories happening during the "Great Resignation"!

Chaplin

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1893
  • Location: Le Canada
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4260 on: May 22, 2022, 09:23:28 AM »
I love this thread, but it's been too quiet lately. There's gotta be some epic FU stories happening during the "Great Resignation"!

I wonder how much epicness had to do with rarity. If lots of people are moving around it just becomes normal. It's so easy to move around that the tension necessary to create an epic story doesn't have time to develop.

But yes, we need more epic stories!

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8956
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4261 on: May 22, 2022, 10:48:20 PM »
City clerk wanted to take some vacation days, the city refused.

Clerk up and quit.

City government has had to shut down because she quit.  (It's a very small town.)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/travel/a-maine-town-reportedly-shut-down-after-its-only-clerk-quit-when-her-vacation-request-was-denied/ar-AAXz0i3

Malossi792

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 164
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4262 on: May 23, 2022, 01:23:42 PM »
I limped along for about 2yrs at work and ultimately developed depression, anxiety and terrible insomnia.  20/20 if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have wasted those two years of my life as a shell of my former self.  Finally last October I told my boss to fuck himself (literally I said that) and resigned and spent the rest of my days driving a supercar to work and flexing hard on my boss.  7mo later and they still haven't found a replacement for me, I work as an independent contractor two days a week doing way less work but get paid twice as much....and get paid hourly.  This is they way.  Still have the same boss, btw, but the power dynamic is the exact opposite.
Batsignal @big_owl

Gronnie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 630
  • Age: 37
  • Location: MN
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4263 on: May 26, 2022, 03:01:43 PM »
I don't know if my situation is a FU money story or a MPP. (If y'all say MPP, I'll move it there.)

A couple of weeks ago, a cloud service provider (CSP) recruiter contacted me for a position. A relative works there. Had the 30 minute screening call (which was almost an hour) and it went well, which opened up a few different opportunities in different customer sectors due to my background and experience. I was to send my résumé to recruiter and they would let me know "as soon as possible". I asked them to clarify benefits, working hours, etc.

However, this was just before the holidays, so I didn't expect a reply. But it got me thinking. Do I really want this position? To have this big name company on my résumé, and for what? I've done stints are 3 other Fortune 500s where I was a just a small tooth on a cog, in an organization of hundreds of cogs. I talked to my relative, who explained the interview process, and how to prepare, etc.

The recruiter explained the benefits, said they were excellent for the industry. 10 days of time off for the first 3 years, use as you accrue, and 6 personal days, plus 7 public holidays. The base pay he mentioned was about $4k more than I get. But the real trade off is the stock (RSU). CSP is known for having a wrote in stone pay/RSU policy, there's no negotiating. They lock in your pay/RSU for 4 years.

Current small sized employer has a rule that as long as I bill customer 1800H/year, or 150H/month on average, I can take the rest of the time off. Since non-billable time is minimal, less than 8H/year, I get PTO of 5 weeks. Plus I get 10 public holidays (work in the DoD sector, so get President's Day, Veterans' Day, Columbus Day).

In essence, I'd be trading time off for stock and a few more work hours per week and increased travel (when the company lifts the work from home rule). New job would be 20-30% domestic flying around and 45H/week of billing.

I work for a good, small professional services company, we've become known for a niche specialty, our CEO and CTO are always working on new contracts/renewals and they have a technical background where the company culture is excellent. Lots of autonomy, I am a team/project lead, and help on other projects too, some proposals and proof-of-concepts.

Currently I work from home and travel to local customer site 2-3 days/week. I'm home by 4pm, drop my young kids for their sports training and go exercise. Help out kids with homework after dinner and help the wife cook/clean up the kitchen. No out of town travel away from family. Plus get to see my dad over dinner 2-3x/week when he joins us.

Wife and I have good pay, rental income from several condos, 2 homes (renovating one, then moving in, and selling the old one in this crazy  RE market), and retirement/brokerage accounts. We aren't in need of more money (and more stress) at the expense of a balanced work/life routine. My wife is looking at changing jobs to a less stressful and lesser hours gig.

We have FU money, we are technically FI, in the 2 comma club. We're already talking about me going FIRE in 12 years, when I turn 55 (because my job and industry is fun, because the people are fun). Wife probably will be retiring earlier. And we'll downsize. All this is in the IPS/long-term plan.

I don't need or want the CSP gig.

Thanks FU Money.

Update time:
The recruiter ghosted me. But I'm a stickler for professionalism, so I contacted him to see if it was still open or the slot had been filled. He replied that it was filled, without any apology or reason for lack of earlier response. Fine, it is what it is.
Last week, a hiring manager from same CSP asks me for my resume. Told him that I've been ghosted by a recruiter thus am wary of CSP's hiring process. He said he's directly responsible for filling job openings, not a recruiter, so we have back and forth messages on a professional networking website. Agree to talk on the phone, but time and date not fixed. This morning, reading my tech newsletters, came across this: https://medium.com/geekculture/my-amazon-reptilian-brain-86607f0e7193
I didn't want to get CSP's corporate mindthink process embedded in me. I didn't want my career with CSP to be determined by CSP's leadership principles. (FWIW, I subscribe to IEEE's Code of Ethics (https://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html) since becoming a student member in 2001.)
This morning, replied to the hiring manager and said I'll pass on any opportunity.
Wasn't worth it, with their world-class "10-days of time-off" for the first 3 years. No amount of RSU/stock can substitute for the 5-6 weeks of time off I get currently for spending time with family and an aging parent.
Coincidentally, a high school friend works for the same CSP on the infrastructure side, in Europe, as a chartered civil engineer. He's been there a year, but is planning to move on in the near future. He isn't happy, and said benefits are worse compared to the traditional civil engineering companies.

2 weeks vacation working as a professional in the tech industry? That's awful! Truly makes me appreciate working for a company with a take as much as you want policy (that actually means it and basically has never even blinked an eye at one of my vacation requests).

uniwelder

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1697
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Appalachian Virginia
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4264 on: May 26, 2022, 03:30:28 PM »
City clerk wanted to take some vacation days, the city refused.

Clerk up and quit.

City government has had to shut down because she quit.  (It's a very small town.)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/travel/a-maine-town-reportedly-shut-down-after-its-only-clerk-quit-when-her-vacation-request-was-denied/ar-AAXz0i3

Thanks for posting this!  From what I read, the position was only paid 16 hours per week anyway, even though she reportedly worked more than that trying to keep up with the demands of that responsibility plus others.  Some people can be really short sighted.

AccidentialMustache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4265 on: June 25, 2022, 11:08:59 PM »
I don't think I ever posted mine here... Or if I did search is failing me. These are both in the past, and while the second is pandemic, it is pre-"great resignation" movement.

----

A long time ago: Shenanigans were afoot and my team had to apply to an internal, team-only search in order to re-title our jobs. Everyone was "supposed" to know what position to apply for. Well I looked at the positions and was like, "I'm doing everything in the Senior position", especially since I had been interim manager for the team for months before they hired a permanent manager (I didn't want the manager position).

So shenanigan go down, I'm "coached" verbally (eg, not recorded) to apply for the proper position. I do, but I also apply for another position, but programming instead of sysadmin. Crucially the new position was a "12-month contract" position. HR comes to my office, closes the door and says, "you do know this is only a 12-month position and you wouldn't be guaranteed a renewal?" In their defense, maybe they were concerned I was out for the FMLA 12 weeks of parental leave (all paid, I had vacation and sick to burn) while the shenanigans were going on.

My response was simply, "Yes I know what '12-month contract' means." Suddenly there was an opportunity to start working with the programming team, while still doing my sysadmin day job, with a plan of transitioning over "once my sysadmin duties completed." Well that never happened because I quit and went into the private sector instead. But a no-fear attitude apparently ruffled some feathers in an unsuccessful attempt to retain me.

----

More recently: I was shown the door at my previous gig. The pitch I was sold didn't match reality a few months in and needless to say I was not happy. I had been debating do I leave or do I shut up, buckle down, and ride it out for a year or two and hope for a stock payout to take us to "instant fire even if we'd started from 0".

CTO/Head HR calls me on a Friday afternoon. Well as soon as I hear them both on the line I know there's only one reason they're both here. CTO dances around the topic, I guess to soften it or something, but eventually manages to say my employment is terminated.

I laughed in response.

There was dead silence for a long time after I finished laughing. 10 seconds? 20? I think I asked if they were still there.

Why did I laugh? Well, one, FU money. We'd had a pile of cash ready for a downpayment for a new rental (if we could find one or two), so we had a year+ of runway. Two, I'd started the interview process with a recruiter who reached out. I figured I better get in practice if I was going to go job hunting and DW had convinced me staying wasn't actually an option. So yeah, kinda heading out the door already and you want to give me all the time I need to interview, decompress, and pay me a severance for the privilege?

Youbetcha I had a good laugh, at their literal expense.

LennStar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3681
  • Location: Germany
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4266 on: June 26, 2022, 01:43:39 AM »
A good laugh is good to your health!

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3882
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4267 on: June 26, 2022, 06:39:45 PM »
^^Yeah, that had to feel great to be planning to quit anyway and then have them give you a severance package. Well done!

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3882
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4268 on: June 29, 2022, 11:07:15 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-sijKNU9c

This one really makes me laugh. I totally identify with the guy being interviewed.

I once had a Sunday only gig at Au Bon Pain that went down pretty much like that, although not with the masterful note on the door referring people to other stores . . . that was definitely the epic part in this story!

zolotiyeruki

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5604
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4269 on: June 29, 2022, 11:41:40 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-sijKNU9c

This one really makes me laugh. I totally identify with the guy being interviewed.
Holy smokes, that guy looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons!

solon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
  • Age: 1823
  • Location: OH
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4270 on: June 29, 2022, 01:06:35 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-sijKNU9c

This one really makes me laugh. I totally identify with the guy being interviewed.
Holy smokes, that guy looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons!

I was bored to tears. If I was that guy's manager I would have fired him long ago out of shear boredom!

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3882
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4271 on: June 29, 2022, 01:34:05 PM »
^It definitely went on too long . . . the whole video piece could have been cut to 1/3 the length.

Nonetheless, I don't blame the guy being interviewed. He's probably was a decent employee who showed up on time and did the job he's supposed to do. So here's a couple of employees making a good faith effort, and some idiot regional manager wants to fire them randomly to try to save a buck an hour or something? Yeah, I hope they are plagued by labor woes for ever after at this point.

stashgrower

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • Location: Australia
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4272 on: July 04, 2022, 06:51:28 AM »

I'm giving a big FU to an abusive person in authority and I'm using FU money to enable walking away.

"But, SwordGuy, aren't you already retired for almost 4 years?"

Yeah, I retired from my place of employment, but I didn't retire from being a responsible citizen of the world.

...

I have to tell you, this is the best FU money I've ever used because it's literally being used for real freedom.


SwordGuy your FU story rocks!!!

samanil

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4273 on: July 05, 2022, 07:16:42 PM »
Nothing too crazy, but my site lead was becoming an intolerable pain in the ass--impatient and pushy and snippy basically all of the time, despite everyone working hard and doing their best, which in almost all cases was good enough. It reached a point where I woke up in the middle of the night with chest pain and decided enough is enough.

The next day I told him if the high tension vibe continued, I was out of there. "I'm on the brink of throwing in the towel," I told him.

He changed the beat of his drum--QUICK!!! He backed way off, and it felt incredible.

That very same weekend I started reading the book "Set Boundaries, Find Peace," which I cannot recommend highly enough. One of the ideas is that when you set a boundary, be prepared to defend it. People will test it, and if you don't defend, the boundary disappears.

So sure enough my site lead started being a pain in the ass again. The issue was that I recently asked to drop down to a 4 day work week, which I was allowed to do (I'm 20% retired!). With a 4th of July off, my schedule was basically a 4 day weekend, then a 3 day work week and then another 3 day weekend. He was upset about that (jealous) and rude to me about it, and pressured me to come in to have less time off.

So the next day I said I didn't like being spoken to in that way, and that if he did it again, I would bring it up again. I also said "I am taking 4 days off, then working 3, then taking 3 off." I didn't ask, I told him that's what I was doing. He graciously accepted my boundary (which the book says most people will), which was nice, but I have little doubt he's going to be rude again, in which case I am prepared to say "Please don't use that tone with me".

I have become convinced that failing to set a boundary when someone is rude to you is highly damaging to your mental health. I've realized that the consequence of NOT setting firm boundaries with rude people is far worse than losing my job. Thus, my path forward is very clear: set boundaries no matter what, even if I get fired.

It's pretty liberating to have this clarity. My net worth is somewhere between 1 and 200k. I'm never going back to letting people be rude to me, and I don't give a fuck if it results in me losing my job.

Sandi_k

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1562
  • Location: California
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4274 on: July 05, 2022, 08:25:46 PM »
@samanil - Way to Go!

I applaud your boundary setting - you are entirely correct. I am supposed to be off every other Friday, but since Covid, I have not enforced that boundary firmly.

Now I have a new boss, and he expects me to work every Friday. Kind of. So I am trying to take every Friday off this summer, to reset my energy for the new year.

If you're 20% retired, for a week with a holiday, I would only work 3 days, too. You're doing it right!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 10:35:19 AM by Sandi_k »

Loren Ver

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Handlebar Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 1223
  • Location: Midwest USA
  • I Retired. Yah!
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4275 on: July 06, 2022, 06:33:52 AM »
Nothing too crazy, but my site lead was becoming an intolerable pain in the ass--impatient and pushy and snippy basically all of the time, despite everyone working hard and doing their best, which in almost all cases was good enough. It reached a point where I woke up in the middle of the night with chest pain and decided enough is enough.

The next day I told him if the high tension vibe continued, I was out of there. "I'm on the brink of throwing in the towel," I told him.

He changed the beat of his drum--QUICK!!! He backed way off, and it felt incredible.

That very same weekend I started reading the book "Set Boundaries, Find Peace," which I cannot recommend highly enough. One of the ideas is that when you set a boundary, be prepared to defend it. People will test it, and if you don't defend, the boundary disappears.

So sure enough my site lead started being a pain in the ass again. The issue was that I recently asked to drop down to a 4 day work week, which I was allowed to do (I'm 20% retired!). With a 4th of July off, my schedule was basically a 4 day weekend, then a 3 day work week and then another 3 day weekend. He was upset about that (jealous) and rude to me about it, and pressured me to come in to have less time off.

So the next day I said I didn't like being spoken to in that way, and that if he did it again, I would bring it up again. I also said "I am taking 4 days off, then working 3, then taking 3 off." I didn't ask, I told him that's what I was doing. He graciously accepted my boundary (which the book says most people will), which was nice, but I have little doubt he's going to be rude again, in which case I am prepared to say "Please don't use that tone with me".

I have become convinced that failing to set a boundary when someone is rude to you is highly damaging to your mental health. I've realized that the consequence of NOT setting firm boundaries with rude people is far worse than losing my job. Thus, my path forward is very clear: set boundaries no matter what, even if I get fired.

It's pretty liberating to have this clarity. My net worth is somewhere between 1 and 200k. I'm never going back to letting people be rude to me, and I don't give a fuck if it results in me losing my job.

Love this, for several reasons.  First, woohoo for you.  These are skills that will serve you well your whole life.
But hopefully, maybe?, It will also influence those around you.  Maybe the manager will learn a thing (haha, it could happen) but also the other employees might see that boundaries can happen and life is better.

Loren

BicycleB

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5263
  • Location: Coolest Neighborhood on Earth, They Say
  • Older than the internet, but not wiser... yet
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4276 on: July 06, 2022, 07:53:51 AM »
Nothing too crazy, but my site lead was becoming an intolerable pain in the ass--impatient and pushy and snippy basically all of the time, despite everyone working hard and doing their best, which in almost all cases was good enough. It reached a point where I woke up in the middle of the night with chest pain and decided enough is enough.

The next day I told him if the high tension vibe continued, I was out of there. "I'm on the brink of throwing in the towel," I told him.

He changed the beat of his drum--QUICK!!! He backed way off, and it felt incredible.

That very same weekend I started reading the book "Set Boundaries, Find Peace," which I cannot recommend highly enough. One of the ideas is that when you set a boundary, be prepared to defend it. People will test it, and if you don't defend, the boundary disappears.

So sure enough my site lead started being a pain in the ass again. The issue was that I recently asked to drop down to a 4 day work week, which I was allowed to do (I'm 20% retired!). With a 4th of July off, my schedule was basically a 4 day weekend, then a 3 day work week and then another 3 day weekend. He was upset about that (jealous) and rude to me about it, and pressured me to come in to have less time off.

So the next day I said I didn't like being spoken to in that way, and that if he did it again, I would bring it up again. I also said "I am taking 4 days off, then working 3, then taking 3 off." I didn't ask, I told him that's what I was doing. He graciously accepted my boundary (which the book says most people will), which was nice, but I have little doubt he's going to be rude again, in which case I am prepared to say "Please don't use that tone with me".

I have become convinced that failing to set a boundary when someone is rude to you is highly damaging to your mental health. I've realized that the consequence of NOT setting firm boundaries with rude people is far worse than losing my job. Thus, my path forward is very clear: set boundaries no matter what, even if I get fired.

It's pretty liberating to have this clarity. My net worth is somewhere between 1 and 200k. I'm never going back to letting people be rude to me, and I don't give a fuck if it results in me losing my job.

Way to go, @samanil!

Gone_Hiking

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
  • Location: Arizona
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4277 on: July 09, 2022, 10:24:08 PM »
After reading so many inspiring stories, I can now contribute my own.

I've been working at a small company since spring last year.  Things went swimmingly well for about 10 months, and then everything suddenly soured.  Really, really soured.  Some health issues crept up, and the boss wasn't understanding.  My performance suddenly wasn't up to standards.  The company finances sucked and I suspected it might go out of business later in the year.  And then there was that pesky issue of company practicing wage theft and thinking that nobody would notice.  New college graduates, for which it was a first job, didn't notice. I did and had enough.  So on the 1st of June I started looking for a new job, preparing to jump ship quickly if needed.

With the job market being what it is, I had four interviews the third week of June.  And that was the week when the company decided to lay off 25% of its workforce.  I was on the list.  Now, I cared too little to be hurt by the deed, but I comforted a younger colleague on her first post-college job for whom this was unexpected and who didn't know how she was going to pay rent next month.  To make the matter worse, the only people who were laid off were individual contributors.  The management that was responsible for the sucky business decisions was all left in place.  And that was the level of moral outrage I needed to burn this bridge.

So the boss, the boss's boss, and the HR lady sit me down, and the boss's boss starts some apology about how he brought me to the company and how he hopes I can find... something... his lack of confidence in me is quite striking.  And then it's time for me to speak.  I unload how all of these people who made the decisions on releasing crappy products keep their jobs while those who faithfully executed these decisions pay the price.  How I came to this company with full faith in quality of the management and found that wage theft is practiced.  How I have already had two interviews in the week with two more scheduled for later and I am not hurt, but it is my third layoff in six years and I ache for those who are being laid off without any idea what to do next.  How my family won't suffer one iota, but so many others don't know how they will pay bills next month.  And how I will not help to find my replacement in case the company starts hiring again because I do not believe anyone should work in a company that is mainly in business of preservation of its leadership. 

After the HR lady read her script, I was escorted to the cube farm to pick up my stuff.  As I opened the door, I yelled "FREEEDOOOM!" as the layoff survivors huddled together.  I left my private business cards on a few desks and then I was gone.  And hugely relieved.

My last day with the company was on June 30th.  I received a job offer on July 1st. 

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8956
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4278 on: July 09, 2022, 11:02:57 PM »
@Gone_Hiking , congrats on coming thru that mess ok.

Now all that remains to be done is to report them for wage theft.

Wage theft is a heinous crime that should be paid for in blood.  Make them pay as much as the law allows.

Taran Wanderer

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4279 on: July 09, 2022, 11:10:44 PM »
That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing.

LennStar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3681
  • Location: Germany
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4280 on: July 10, 2022, 06:21:50 AM »
@Gone_Hiking , congrats on coming thru that mess ok.

Now all that remains to be done is to report them for wage theft.

Wage theft is a heinous crime that should be paid for in blood.  Make them pay as much as the law allows.
What is meant by wage theft?
Can't be not paying, because those paycheck to paycheck people would realize it immediately.

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5458
  • Age: 41
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4281 on: July 10, 2022, 07:25:11 AM »
@Gone_Hiking , congrats on coming thru that mess ok.

Now all that remains to be done is to report them for wage theft.

Wage theft is a heinous crime that should be paid for in blood.  Make them pay as much as the law allows.
What is meant by wage theft?
Can't be not paying, because those paycheck to paycheck people would realize it immediately.
Lots of workplace policies out there that are not square with the law that owners get away with until someone reports them. Unpaid overtime or not time and half. Policy resulting in time starting later than it legally should or ending earlier. Depending on job, travel policy can be a place where pay and/or reimbursements are not as much as they should be.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8956
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4282 on: July 10, 2022, 09:01:51 AM »
@Gone_Hiking , congrats on coming thru that mess ok.

Now all that remains to be done is to report them for wage theft.

Wage theft is a heinous crime that should be paid for in blood.  Make them pay as much as the law allows.
What is meant by wage theft?
Can't be not paying, because those paycheck to paycheck people would realize it immediately.

Because paycheck-to-paycheck people are so good with math?

Here's an overview of wage theft.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft

To put it simply, if there's a way to cheat workers out of what is rightfully owed them, it's been used thousands and thousands of times.

When capitalism was young, they would speed up and slow down the factory clocks.   Now they are much more sophisticated about it.

These should be treated as intentional felonies, not civil matters.    Frankly, I think we should take the managers who steal wages from low wage employees and put their heads on pikes Elizabethan style.  Have the heads rotated between their front yard, their country club entrance, their church, their social clubs, and their professional trade associations. 

"Pour encourager les autres."

But I'm feeling charitable today.



OrangePill

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Eastern Canada
  • Choose monetary sovereignty
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4283 on: July 11, 2022, 04:46:58 PM »
Not necessarily a FU story but more of a cash cushion giving me some freedom story.

About two years ago, I had a job in the city at a small community organisation which helped addicts and paid about 37k a year before taxes. Having read mr mm and other FIRE literature I was well aware of the importance of being frugal and saving money. Unfortunately that salary could only go so far. I was starting to feel desperate having gone to university only to get that low paying gig. I didn’t have much in the way of savings and felt kinda stuck by not wanting to take risks that could mean me having to pay rent without any income.

It’s only after having saved maybe about 30k, that I finally felt I had the necessary cushion to try a transition to a higher paying job. I applied to multiple jobs including one the most well paid in my field of study. I was greatly surprised when I got an offer for a starting 3 months contract at that precise job! It was one hour away from where I lived, I accepted the offer without thinking about it and started two weeks later. That job was at a 71k starting salary increasing each year ( now 73k ). FIRE is still going to take a hell of a long time but I’ve now managed to save more than I thought possible in this time and still working at it.

It really is me knowing I could fall back on my savings the gave me the confidence of taking that risk. What’s funny is it all worked out and I really didn’t need that much of a cushion. For me, it was a lesson in taking risks and that we often put silly doubts in our own mind because of unfounded fears. In the end, it’s the freedom that money gave me that let me take a risk which almost doubled my yearly salary. There’s definitely something about having money that leads you to having more money.

ATtiny85

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 947
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4284 on: July 11, 2022, 06:18:48 PM »
Not necessarily a FU story but more of a cash cushion giving me some freedom story.



It really is me knowing I could fall back on my savings the gave me the confidence of taking that risk.

That’s FU money right there! Nice job!

Gone_Hiking

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
  • Location: Arizona
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4285 on: July 11, 2022, 10:13:43 PM »
What is meant by wage theft?
Can't be not paying, because those paycheck to paycheck people would realize it immediately.

What my now former employer did is not a wage theft for hourly workers.  This is a wage theft practiced on salaried people.  Not illegal, but unethical and abusive.

Here is one example.  A scientist colleague took two days vacation, Thursday, and Friday, before Memorial Day last year.  She ended up not working on Thursday, but ended up working most of the day on Friday, and then all day on Memorial Day.  She took two days of vacation even though she worked during one of those days and the holiday!  As the manager explained to me, "she just loves to work".  Not true; the colleague felt subtly pressured to work holidays in order to feel valuable enough not to be subject to a layoff.  She discussed this with me a couple of times.

Example number two.  Another colleague asked whether he could take Friday afternoon off and work half of Saturday instead.  Manager's response?  It would be great if the colleague could work on Saturday, but he needed to take half day off as vacation on Friday.

Example number three.  I work as a project manager and continuous education is important to keep my license.   I usually attend one educational meeting on Friday that runs from 7:30 to 9:00 AM.  I've been attending those meeting for several years and never was asked to take time off for attendance, even when I was a contractor on hourly pay.   On the last job, however, I was told that the work time is from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM and every hour when one does not work for the company should be taken as a vacation.  I also learned that, according to my manager, the continuous education is for my own improvement and does not help the company.

The colleague 1 and colleague 2 above were on their first job after college and did not understand that vacation is a vacation, company holidays mean no work, and flexible schedule is part of the deal for knowledge workers who are salaried.  In my book, and in previous organizations where I worked, colleague 1 would either get both vacation days back, or, at minimum, get an extra day off to compensate for holiday work.  Colleague two would not have to take half day off because he would just finish the work week on Saturday.

I wish there was a way to sue those people, but for the time being the only way to get the manager's attention is to leave, tell them why, and let community know what this business is like.  I serve on a board of a local chapter of project management organization and our organization is in good position to share great places to work and those to avoid.

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5458
  • Age: 41
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4286 on: July 12, 2022, 06:53:33 AM »
Borderline abuse of salaried workers is pretty rampant in many places - I've developed a very strong preference for hourly work because of that - 10 months in a W-2 salaried position just galvanized that for me, and I wasn't working at a particularly bad place in terms of the types of things you're referring to @Gone_Hiking, but like many government IT consulting firms they definitely made a fair amount of their profit by being understaffed.

Uturn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 889
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4287 on: July 12, 2022, 11:26:03 AM »
Years ago, I was the sole Network Engineer for a company that really should have had two engineers.  If something broke during my off time, I was still expected to work the issue. I brought it up a few times that this is not sustainable because there is going to be a time when I am not available and the problem will sit until I am available, resulting in lost production.

One day I had a dentist appointment and took off two hours early.  The next day, my manager told me that I needed to put in PTO for the two hours.  I brought up the many times that I worked outside of my normal hours.  He said that I need to put in PTO any time I am out during my normal hours.  I said that I can either be concerned about running the network to the best of my ability, or I can be concerned about occupying my chair for 40 hours per week, choose wisely.  He said that my hours are 7-4 M-F.

About a month later, we had a failure on a Saturday afternoon that caused a work stoppage at one of our locations.  My manager called me and reported the problem.  I told him that I will be in the office 7am Monday.  He started to protest, and I reminded him that I am only following the working hours that he dictated.  More flexible hours were soon implemented and a second engineer was hired.

I doubt I would have stood my ground had I not been debt free and a comfortable cash cushion. 

alcon835

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4288 on: July 12, 2022, 11:50:17 AM »
Years ago, I was the sole Network Engineer for a company that really should have had two engineers.  If something broke during my off time, I was still expected to work the issue. I brought it up a few times that this is not sustainable because there is going to be a time when I am not available and the problem will sit until I am available, resulting in lost production.

One day I had a dentist appointment and took off two hours early.  The next day, my manager told me that I needed to put in PTO for the two hours.  I brought up the many times that I worked outside of my normal hours.  He said that I need to put in PTO any time I am out during my normal hours.  I said that I can either be concerned about running the network to the best of my ability, or I can be concerned about occupying my chair for 40 hours per week, choose wisely.  He said that my hours are 7-4 M-F.

About a month later, we had a failure on a Saturday afternoon that caused a work stoppage at one of our locations.  My manager called me and reported the problem.  I told him that I will be in the office 7am Monday.  He started to protest, and I reminded him that I am only following the working hours that he dictated.  More flexible hours were soon implemented and a second engineer was hired.

I doubt I would have stood my ground had I not been debt free and a comfortable cash cushion.

These are the sweetest FU money stories for me! There is so much power lost when you have a cash cushion. It's shocking how different we get to see the world than our peers just because we can survive losing our job.

Taran Wanderer

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4289 on: July 12, 2022, 03:53:20 PM »
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off. I managed a group supporting production operations and projects that required planned and unplanned evening, night, and weekend work. You can be darn sure those folks had flexibility for doctor appointments, travel between sites, duck hunting, kids’ events, sick kids, and whatever else they needed flexibility for.  They also go vacations where they were truly off and the rest of the teak covered for them. Never had complaints from them, though occasionally I did have to defend their absence to other managers.  Well worth it.

RyanAtTanagra

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Location: Sierra Mountains
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4290 on: July 12, 2022, 04:28:26 PM »
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.

Because employees will.  I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day.  Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning.  I was like 'wait?  that's an option?!'.  No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing.  I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.

Wolfpack Mustachian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1866
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4291 on: July 12, 2022, 04:39:25 PM »
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.

Because employees will.  I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day.  Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning.  I was like 'wait?  that's an option?!'.  No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing.  I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.

That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!

alcon835

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4292 on: July 12, 2022, 06:56:37 PM »
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.

Because employees will.  I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day.  Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning.  I was like 'wait?  that's an option?!'.  No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing.  I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.

That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!

There are also places where people just...like to work a lot, I guess? I once worked with a guy who would do all night deployments and then show up to work and put in 9+ hours. I told him he should stay home and recover and he just shrugged his shoulders.

pasadenafr

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 320
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Upper Left Corner, USA
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4293 on: July 12, 2022, 07:10:39 PM »
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.

Because employees will.  I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day.  Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning.  I was like 'wait?  that's an option?!'.  No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing.  I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.

I work in IT and I've always said that I'm absolutely available out of hours to help or work on a production issue as long as it's fair. It's a two-way street. If they want me to take the call at 3am, they need to let me take a few hours off in the morning, or when convenient.

I've had to explain this (politely) a few times, but it's always worked. If not, then they always reconsider the first time you don't hear the phone. Because they usually realize they need you a lot more during a 3am emergency than they do on a Friday at 3pm.

People very often back off when you push back (nicely) - they know they don't have a leg to stand on. It works because employees never push back.

NoVa

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4294 on: July 12, 2022, 08:48:58 PM »
System administrator in an old job I used to have. The company expected you to work on proposals and bids, outside your daily hours (government contracting, so they couldn't just have you do it in the middle of the day). They even had a cute acronym for it, UCOT. Uncompensated overtime. I don't work there anymore.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8828
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4295 on: July 13, 2022, 02:38:34 AM »
I used to keep two leave sheets on the go, one for annual leave and one for "time off in lieu" which covered out of hours working - when the hours had totted up I would use it to take odd half days when things were quieter.

Funny story: I was the Trades Union Convenor in my (professional and admin office workers, mostly) place of work.  By the end of my time there the HR top brass had been brought in from outside and hated that 1) we had detailed written contracts of employment and 2) I was so pissed at them for various things they tried that I started insisting on them complying with every employer obligation to the book.  Made their working lives hell just insisting, politely and persistently, that they do their jobs right by our organisation's standards.  I don't think it was a coincidence that at the same time, for the first time in 20 years, I was asked to submit my leave sheets to HR.  I sent in all 20 years' worth.  Got them back a month later without comment.  Some poor bugger presumably did the maths on 20 years of my holidays and came up with every one being within the rules.

(They didn't know about the Time Off in Lieu sheets, but if they had the result would have been the same, with everything initialed by the relevant manager at the time.)

Join your Trades' Union, folks, or your employee association, whatever it's called.  As a single person going up against a big organisation you haven't a hope, as part of a group with the same aims you've got a chance of evening up the score.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20748
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4296 on: July 13, 2022, 09:24:13 AM »

Join your Trades' Union, folks, or your employee association, whatever it's called.  As a single person going up against a big organisation you haven't a hope, as part of a group with the same aims you've got a chance of evening up the score.

I second this. 

I belonged to a union my whole working life - teachers need unions just as much as anyone else.  My College union negotiated maternity leave back when maternity leave was a pipe dream for most.  Our collective agreement covered everything from salaries to working conditions to workloads to all sorts of bits and pieces.  Governments can really suck as employers, because they have a monopoly and they know people are unlikely to change residence.

Wolfpack Mustachian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1866
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4297 on: July 13, 2022, 10:09:40 AM »
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.

Because employees will.  I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day.  Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning.  I was like 'wait?  that's an option?!'.  No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing.  I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.

That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!

There are also places where people just...like to work a lot, I guess? I once worked with a guy who would do all night deployments and then show up to work and put in 9+ hours. I told him he should stay home and recover and he just shrugged his shoulders.

That is possible, of course. I've never seen anyone like that that is not assuming it will lead to a promotion so they are working towards something rather than just liking to work, but there are all kinds of people out there...

jinga nation

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2696
  • Age: 247
  • Location: 'Murica's Dong
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4298 on: July 14, 2022, 07:41:47 AM »
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.

Because employees will.  I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day.  Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning.  I was like 'wait?  that's an option?!'.  No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing.  I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.

I work in IT and I've always said that I'm absolutely available out of hours to help or work on a production issue as long as it's fair. It's a two-way street. If they want me to take the call at 3am, they need to let me take a few hours off in the morning, or when convenient.

I've had to explain this (politely) a few times, but it's always worked. If not, then they always reconsider the first time you don't hear the phone. Because they usually realize they need you a lot more during a 3am emergency than they do on a Friday at 3pm.

People very often back off when you push back (nicely) - they know they don't have a leg to stand on. It works because employees never push back.

Used to work that site of IT. Would get calls at odd hours from my boss. I'd ask, "how much of an emergency is this on a Saturday afternoon? Is actual deployment to production going to be on Monday night or tonight? Are the engineers from other teams going to be onsite too? I'm a beer in, it'll take me an hour. Can you order food and drinks for all those coming in? Coffee and pastries/donuts too. Also, we'll be taking off all of Friday in lieu, unless you're paying overtime. Has the customer authorized overtime?"
Had to go in only once in almost 6 years.

And there were assholes who'd suck corporate's bellend and go behind our backs, then F it all up, and we'd have to fix during normal hours, which meant our normal operations got affected, metrics got affected, pay affected. Told the boss, "we'll make you look bad too if you don't have our back and stop the twats from mucking with our stuff". Stopped the nonsense pretty fast when I made it the boss' and Program Manager's problem.

alcon835

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #4299 on: July 14, 2022, 07:43:32 AM »
I’ve never understood the way some managers are assholes about regular working hours and then expect employees to respond at the drop of a hat when they’re off.

Because employees will.  I had a job where I worked after hours a lot to support IT infrastructure, and I was always to work on time the next day.  Then we hired a new guy and after his first late night he emailed that he was up late and would thus be in late the next morning.  I was like 'wait?  that's an option?!'.  No one said anything to him, so you can bet I started doing the same thing.  I just didn't know we could do that and I never thought to push the issue.

That's very true and great when it works out, which is probably a lot. In fairness, at some places it really isn't an option.. They have such a stranglehold on things that they can afford to lose someone who doesn't stick to the party line and do whatever they ask for the most part. In those cases, you may have to leave - and the culture is often so toxic that it's a big plus when you do. Having savings comes in handy in those situations as well!

There are also places where people just...like to work a lot, I guess? I once worked with a guy who would do all night deployments and then show up to work and put in 9+ hours. I told him he should stay home and recover and he just shrugged his shoulders.

That is possible, of course. I've never seen anyone like that that is not assuming it will lead to a promotion so they are working towards something rather than just liking to work, but there are all kinds of people out there...

Honestly, I think this person was just being taken advantage of and he sorta...went with it? He was critical to the success of IT and there needed to be 5 of him, but he was good enough at what he did and willing to sacrifice his personal life that they just had him do everything.

He needed better leaders above him to force him to stay home more and hire more help. He also needed to set better boundaries. I tried to gently nudge him towards that, but he never wanted to do it so...

learned a lot just watching him do the things I don't want to do unless I am very, very well paid.