Epic FU money stories

[Freedomin5]

I have a good friend whose son has been dealing (and mostly failing) with cannabis-induced psychosis for the last 20 years.  I'd never touch cannabis even without the smoking hazard.

Cannabis doesn't 'induce psychosis." People who are psychotic sometimes self-medicate with all kinds of things, including cannabis, but that's not what causes their psychosis. The (often heavy) cannabis use is more a symptom of their underlying mental problems.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition(DSM-5), also known as the “bible” of mental disorders, also what psychiatrists and psychologists use to diagnose mental disorders, cannabis absolutely can induce psychosis.

ICD-9-CM Code 292.9
ICD-10-CM Code F12.159 (with use disorder, mild), F12.259 (with use disorder, moderate/severe), F12.959 (without use disorder)

Unless you’re telling me you know more than the teams of experts from some of the top universities in the world that were tasked with updating the DSM.

[tipster350]

I can't wait for this thread to get back on topic!

[Dicey]

I can't wait for this thread to get back on topic!

Hahaha, good luck with that!

[RetiredAt63]

I can't wait for this thread to get back on topic!

You just need to come up with an epic FU money story.   ;-)

[BuffaloStache]

None of them are my stories, and it's unclear that any of these are even FU stories, but I'll do my part to try to bring this thread back on track: https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/4-wild-quitting-job-stories

Love the ingenuity of some people! I'd love to do something like this (almost entirely non-harmful) if I was leaving an employer I loved.

[swashbucklinstache]

I've got a potential one brewing in a 2000 person company.

9(!!!!!!!!) months ago a person who reports to the C suite indicated they'd like to give me 3 of their 4 subroles as an "apprentice" which is code for "without losing credit for it for a few months in case my new roles don't work out." It's influential work and very poorly defined, which is appropriate for that person's level, which is two levels above mine, and represents a shift in career direction to a new vertical. So I asked about title and pay to help me decide, hearing "we'll get back to you" which is fair since this involves multiple people. I wasn't thrilled with having to bring those things up to the C suite nor several of the follow-ups from leadership who basically expect me to immediately take them up on it.

In the meantime I've been declining meeting invitations associated with the role, or attending and declining most action items, which has undoubtedly ruffled some feathers. I've held steady, buoyed by the fact that the average tenure in these roles has been < 1 year, with the big wigs kicking you out or people burning out, and we get raises annually... This otherwise has been the right move, since I'm (correctly) on my own in delegating current tasks to make room.

Last week we got annual review promotions and I got one and a very healthy raise, but I happen to know these roles were not a part of that calculus. I think senior management is going to have a conniption fit when they approach me soon with "now that that's settled..." and I interrupt them to say "I was promoted to level 5 because I'm doing level 5 work. If you want me to do level 6 work in the other vertical I'm still waiting for information on title and pay to help me make that choice."

[RyanAtTanagra]

In the meantime I've been declining meeting invitations associated with the role, or attending and declining most action items, which has undoubtedly ruffled some feathers.

Nice, good play.  Follow up later when you can, curious to hear how things play out.

[BicycleB]

Live action report (well, inaction on their part) - indeed epic!

[jinga nation]

I don't have an epic FU money story. But this post by @SwordGuy , on this thread, in 2016 got my brain cogs spinning:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1110522/#msg1110522

Things at my previous job weren't going well. Every other week I (along with my lead network engineer) were the whipping boys of a high-level gov civilian in the DoD. (The engineer who was the whipping boy in my "respite week" is my current director.) There came a time, after a year of whippings, that I took my manager outside the office and told him I was tired of working with a shitty software product, which I had assessed 18 months prior and said it was worse than a sack of manure, yet the agency purchased it. The vendor support was piss-poor, and the gov oversight was getting into my underwear. I asked for another job within the company. My manager said no, I had to stay to work and complete the project in the next 6 months as it was high-visibilty. Later that week, I read the above-mentioned post on this thread. Took my boss outside, told him I was ready to quit. He asked me about money; I said I had enough saved up. (Between rental income and my wife's earnings, we would be fine.) In addition, I was also wearing 2 other hats, so they'd need 2-3 people to replace me. He gave me a 10% raise on the spot, and got me a bonus $10k a week later. He thought that would satisfy someone with FU money. A couple of months later, after several interviews, and taking my time to pick, I went with a small business where I had latitude to do many different things, instead of being stuck in a Fortune 500 where I was just another billable butt-in-seat resource.

Thanks to FU money and advice on this forum, I'm now making 33% more than I did 3 years ago (not counting for inflation). I have a flex-work schedule, zero management and gov people sitting on my head.

[dandarc]

10% raise on the spot + $10K bonus should be insulting. Company (and this manager specifically) was underpaying you for quite a while if they could do that pretty much instantaneously. Great move getting out of there!

[jinga nation]

10% raise on the spot + $10K bonus should be insulting. Company (and this manager specifically) was underpaying you for quite a while if they could do that pretty much instantaneously. Great move getting out of there!

He was a company man. I was being paid par-for-the-course at the time, and it was a convenient place to work since my kids were in the onsite daycare. There wasn't any potential for technical growith, and I didn't want to become management. I had started playing with cloud infrastructure at my desk in my spare time and got noticed by the co-worker/fellow whipping boy. He ended up hiring me a few months after he left. He's my director now and is a pretty good chap who recognizes talent and tries to hold on to them

[alcon835]

What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?

[jinga nation]

What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?

He was a big fan of phrases/sayings, the midwesterner he was.
So I told him I wasn't impressed by his batting average.
And that a blind man could have been batting better than his attempts to get me anything bigger.
And that I had to take care of myself, my family, and my health (mental in this case).
^all 3 were verbatim phrases he'd say all the time.
It left him gobsmacked. He tried to say something, 3 seconds of incoherent mumbling, and then he put out his hand and said he wished me all the best. He acknowledged at my leaving lunch that it would be hard to replace me. 
I moved to a building right across from my old workplace, and sometimes I have to go to his department for a meeting with engineers there, and end up meeting him. But he's been polite and cordial since (he got promoted).

Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.

[Alternatepriorities]

Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.

Nice job on that one!

[2sk22]

I don't have an epic FU money story. But this post by @SwordGuy , on this thread, in 2016 got my brain cogs spinning:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1110522/#msg1110522

Things at my previous job weren't going well. Every other week I (along with my lead network engineer) were the whipping boys of a high-level gov civilian in the DoD. (The engineer who was the whipping boy in my "respite week" in my current director.) There came a time, after a year of whippings, that I took my manager outside the office and told him I was tired of working with a shitty software product, which I had assessed 18 months prior and said it was worse than a sack of manure, yet the agency purchased it. The vendor support was piss-poor, and the gov oversight was getting into my underwear. I asked for another job within the company. My manager said no, I had to stay to work and complete the project in the next 6 months as it was high-visibilty. Later that week, I read the above-mentioned post on this thread. Took my boss outside, told him I was ready to quit. He asked me about money; I said I had enough saved up. (Between rental income and my wife's earnings, we would be fine.) In addition, I was also wearing 2 other hats, so they'd need 2-3 people to replace me. He gave me a 10% raise on the spot, and got me a bonus $10k a week later. He thought that would satisfy someone with FU money. A couple of months later, after several interviews, and taking my time to pick, I went with a small business where I had latitude to do many different things, instead of being stuck in a Fortune 500 where I was just another billable butt-in-seat resource.

Thanks to FU money and advice on this forum, I'm now making 33% more than I did 3 years ago (not counting for inflation). I have a flex-work schedule, zero management and gov people sitting on my head.

Good for you! Even when you actually have genuine FU money, it can be difficult to actually make use of it - fear of the unknown etc.

[alcon835]

What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?

Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.

Ha! I love it! I did something similar, got the company to add a match to the 401k last year. This year I've almost got them to adopt "True up" so we don't have to meter the contributions out over 26 paychecks and potentially miss a match or two at the end of year!

[RWD]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

[bbqbonelesswing]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

[jinga nation]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)

[RetiredAt63]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

[anotherAlias]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

Oh man, I'm jealous.  Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting.  This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.

[jinga nation]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

Sir, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.

[markbike528CBX]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

Oh man, I'm jealous.  Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting.  This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.

Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply. 
If there isn't an agenda or at least a script for daily meetings then, nearly by definition, it is useless.

[mm1970]

@jinga nation I think that was epic!

[anotherAlias]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

Oh man, I'm jealous.  Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting.  This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.

Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply. 
If there isn't an agenda or at least a script for daily meetings then, nearly by definition, it is useless.

We don't always have an agenda but I tend to get asked questions a lot.  Plus my manager is in almost all of my meetings, and is very much a micromanager.  I can assure you they would notice. 

[AlanStache]

And we are not big on meetings...

[markbike528CBX]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

Oh man, I'm jealous.  Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting.  This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.

Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply. 
If there isn't an agenda or at least a script for daily meetings then, nearly by definition, it is useless.

We don't always have an agenda but I tend to get asked questions a lot.  Plus my manager is in almost all of my meetings, and is very much a micromanager.  I can assure you they would notice.

Start slow and avoid the useless meetings that your manager _doesn't_ attend.
Or stroke the ego, and say "this is a management level meeting, I'll give you all the info needed".
Or if you have and desire to use FU money, just don't go.   Have a critical gig going at those times.    YMMV

[RetiredAt63]

I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

Sir, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.

Sorry, my built-in editor had the urge to make some revisions.    ;-)

Sir, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.

>>>>>

Ma'am, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.  You are a Canadian, Uncle Sam isn't sure how he feels about you.  You don't pay any taxes here. Do you buy lots of American goods?  Do you spend lots of money here on vacation?

[Smokystache]

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!!  - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this! 

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

[RetiredAt63]

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!!  - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this! 

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.  And yes academics can talk forever - it is what we are paid to do, after all.  We didn't want the second half of the agenda tabled until the next time because we ran out of time, that way lies madness. 

I've seen the endless yak-yak at non-work meetings too, especially executive meetings.  Some people seem to see meetings as social time.  I don't but then I am an introvert, let's just get the agenda covered and be done!  Even if "done" is really meeting followed by social time, let's keep them separate!

[bbqbonelesswing]

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!!  - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this! 

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.  And yes academics can talk forever - it is what we are paid to do, after all.  We didn't want the second half of the agenda tabled until the next time because we ran out of time, that way lies madness. 

I've seen the endless yak-yak at non-work meetings too, especially executive meetings.  Some people seem to see meetings as social time.  I don't but then I am an introvert, let's just get the agenda covered and be done!  Even if "done" is really meeting followed by social time, let's keep them separate!

My manager looooves to turn meetings into social time. Commonly heard at the end of the set meeting time: "Does anyone have a hard stop?"

[Nutty]

My manager looooves to turn meetings into social time. Commonly heard at the end of the set meeting time: "Does anyone have a hard stop?"

I might have worked for that one too.  Yes, I do have a hard stop if you expect me to complete my projects by your imposed deadline.  Several people would clutch their phones and excuse themselves, never to return.  Some people would have their coworker call them with a "get out of meeting free" call.  Good friends will cover for you.

I've walked out of meetings that strayed from an agenda.  I've also took control, imposed my agenda and adjourned them early.  I've got work to do and this ain't it.

BTW, quitting time can be a hard stop too.  I've got better places to be.  Don't get me wrong, I love my paycheck, er, company during working hours.  :)

[BussoV6]

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!!  - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this! 

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.  And yes academics can talk forever - it is what we are paid to do, after all.  We didn't want the second half of the agenda tabled until the next time because we ran out of time, that way lies madness. 

I've seen the endless yak-yak at non-work meetings too, especially executive meetings.  Some people seem to see meetings as social time.  I don't but then I am an introvert, let's just get the agenda covered and be done!  Even if "done" is really meeting followed by social time, let's keep them separate!

My manager looooves to turn meetings into social time. Commonly heard at the end of the set meeting time: "Does anyone have a hard stop?"

I'm the one with a hard stop everytime a meeting threatens to run over. I also decline anything where I don't see the value as being worth my time.

[LennStar]

The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.

And the people who get things done put an end time to a meeting (and adhere to it).

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.

LOL see? QED!

If there is a definitive end, people will only talk about the important things once they get used to it. And people who can't do that (there is always one ego too big) get the social distancing treatment and learn it after a bit - or leave one way or the other.

[RetiredAt63]

The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.

And the people who get things done put an end time to a meeting (and adhere to it).

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.

LOL see? QED!

If there is a definitive end, people will only talk about the important things once they get used to it. And people who can't do that (there is always one ego too big) get the social distancing treatment and learn it after a bit - or leave one way or the other.

Exactly.  The start time for an item is the end time for the previous item, so that works.  Our last agenda item was always "any other business"  so it could be super short or horribly long.  Definitely an end time had to be there.  Plus people learned that anything important needed its own agenda spot since AOB tended to not be the best place for informed discussion.

[Alternatepriorities]

More of a "polite no thank you" than an FU, but it was still very satisfying.

DW and I hit FI last year, but she still really likes her work. They clearly like her too because they offered her a promotion this spring. It'd be a nice raise for her and we think she will enjoy the new role even more than the current one. The only problem is her current contract is 186 days a year and the new one is 220 and losing seven weeks of potential travel would not be worth it.  So, she told them she would love the job, but is only willing to work a 200 day contract. Even though it's still a substantial raise, they seemed surprised she didn't mind giving up 20 days of pay. Once they realized she was serious they accepted her proposal. FI means she didn't have to choose between career advancement and having time off to enjoy life.

[dandarc]

May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!

[RetiredAt63]

May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!

Yes, good for her!

[Warlord1986]

@Alternatepriorities  good one! Always happy to see people choose life over money.

[Blondetuco]

I posted a few months back about leaving a job because of a horrible boss. Turns out I wasn't the only one that had enough of her crap, and she was recently let go. They were unable to fill my position in the five(!!!) months since I left.

I was contacted today about coming back to the company under new management. Luckily, my SO and I just had a conversation about how well we're doing financially - and how much happier I've been - since taking a 30% paycut in my current position. It was the easiest "Thanks, but no thanks" I have given someone.

[Dicey]

I posted a few months back about leaving a job because of a horrible boss. Turns out I wasn't the only one that had enough of her crap, and she was recently let go. They were unable to fill my position in the five(!!!) months since I left.

I was contacted today about coming back to the company under new management. Luckily, my SO and I just had a conversation about how well we're doing financially - and how much happier I've been - since taking a 30% paycut in my current position. It was the easiest "Thanks, but no thanks" I have given someone.

Whoop, whoop!

[LightTripper]

Great to hear about karma in full action there @Blondetuco !

[swashbucklinstache]

I've got a potential one brewing in a 2000 person company.

9(!!!!!!!!) months ago a person who reports to the C suite indicated they'd like to give me 3 of their 4 subroles as an "apprentice" which is code for "without losing credit for it for a few months in case my new roles don't work out." It's influential work and very poorly defined, which is appropriate for that person's level, which is two levels above mine, and represents a shift in career direction to a new vertical. So I asked about title and pay to help me decide, hearing "we'll get back to you" which is fair since this involves multiple people. I wasn't thrilled with having to bring those things up to the C suite nor several of the follow-ups from leadership who basically expect me to immediately take them up on it.

In the meantime I've been declining meeting invitations associated with the role, or attending and declining most action items, which has undoubtedly ruffled some feathers. I've held steady, buoyed by the fact that the average tenure in these roles has been < 1 year, with the big wigs kicking you out or people burning out, and we get raises annually... This otherwise has been the right move, since I'm (correctly) on my own in delegating current tasks to make room.

Last week we got annual review promotions and I got one and a very healthy raise, but I happen to know these roles were not a part of that calculus. I think senior management is going to have a conniption fit when they approach me soon with "now that that's settled..." and I interrupt them to say "I was promoted to level 5 because I'm doing level 5 work. If you want me to do level 6 work in the other vertical I'm still waiting for information on title and pay to help me make that choice."

We've progressed to IMs of "do you have a few minutes to chat" actually being the meetings I've been declining, people currently doing roles but who have no authority to change things coming to me asking about when I'll be the roles because they're so busy and attempting to get me to just do it, and meetings with vague topics turning into "thanks for joining, let's talk through this task I'm handing off to you"....
Meanwhile some of the people doing this role are leaving the company and referencing these roles directly. They need help and I want to help, but I mean....
Requests for people to sign up in meetings full of my peers are met with silence....

[RyanAtTanagra]

meetings with vague topics turning into "thanks for joining, let's talk through this task I'm handing off to you"....

Are you accepting the tasks?  Sounds like if you don't formally accept the role their next tactic is to just trickle it onto you.

[LightTripper]

Right - sounds like they are relying on goodwill that somebody (probably you) will just sweep up the dropped tasks to be helpful.  Which would be a worst of all worlds as it won't even be in your job description or compensated.  Your managers need to actually manage the situation ... sounds like it would be worth actively reaching out to your manager to discuss the situation?

[swashbucklinstache]

Yep! My immediate manager is definitely in the loop and is taking it up the chain with a clear bright line "this is not going to just happen to work itself out" directive.

It's unfortunate because there's a very real possibility that if they just showed me a table that clearly showed they're paying me like a level 6, even if my title isn't, that I'd likely grumble about being voluntold but then set to doing it. We're in professional services too, so they only really care about my salary so much since we're just billing it out anyway. It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $. Just doing it is a fine way to gain responsibilities early in a professional services career but at some point you have to do more of purposeful 'explosion ladder' approach to get stronger not just 5 more pull-ups. Our job descriptions, like many consultants, are basically the equivalent "get stronger", fast and loose.

I'm telling people in the roles that I'm not able to assist yet, breaking that pattern only in the case of things that are extremely simple or otherwise interesting to me. They're left with the impression I want to help..

[AMandM]

It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.

I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need?  Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?

[swashbucklinstache]

It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.

I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need?  Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?

You're not wrong, it isn't at all rational. Life and times of a consultancy though at this level. Asking for anything at all from another group, HR to literally do their job in this case, requires a political trade-off. It also requires the C suit to spend 10 consecutive minutes focusing on the division they run instead of how they can get promoted or an extra half percent on their bonus, (or actual more important things, to be fair) which probably explains the 9 month wait time. We bill our time in 6 minute increments and our company #2 starts her day by reviewing yesterday's numbers...

Not a surprise FI is on the mind, nor that more sanely run startups are eating our lunch.

[dandarc]

Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.

Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.

[swashbucklinstache]

Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.

Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.

Pretty much. Based on the talent walking out the door we're in the early stages of the latter.

It's a difficult model to effectively scale, which is part of the reason they don't sell for high multiples. Management is kind of like simultaneous running 10-3000 companies at once, more of a loose coalition than a company. Pros and cons to that arrangement of course, and if one wants to trade that set of problems for another the door's always there.