Author Topic: Epic FU money stories  (Read 1035121 times)

iluvzbeach

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2050 on: November 27, 2017, 08:15:41 PM »
Congrats, Sibley. Sounds pretty damn epic to me. Hopefully the “therapy” and relief of getting this behind you will result in a good night’s sleep.

Rowellen

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2051 on: November 27, 2017, 08:22:56 PM »
Congrats Sibley. I hope the next few weeks aren't too stressful for you.  Good luck in your new position. I like that you were honest about why you were leaving. Perhaps the manager can get some training to improve her performance.

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2052 on: November 27, 2017, 08:43:41 PM »
Whew! Wnat a story. Do you feel like a weight has lifted?

Daisy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2053 on: November 27, 2017, 10:54:54 PM »
Sibley, that IS epic!

You gave feedback to upper management and they are going to make changes,AND they are waiting for you to leave to institute some of the changes so that you are not stressed. It sounds like they really value your opinion. OR, in classic megacorp style, after you leave they do nothing and continue as usual. I'm hoping it's the former and not the latter, for your ex-coworkers sake.

Sibley

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2054 on: November 28, 2017, 08:24:56 AM »
After a good night's sleep (with no smoke detector chirping!), yes. Big weight off me. I talked to the manager today and it went really well. I like her personally, it's just the work stuff that is such a problem. We're focusing on transitioning my work and me wrapping up what I can. I've got fingers in a lot of pies, so it'll be complex even transitioning.

mm1970

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2055 on: November 28, 2017, 11:39:51 AM »
After a good night's sleep (with no smoke detector chirping!), yes. Big weight off me. I talked to the manager today and it went really well. I like her personally, it's just the work stuff that is such a problem. We're focusing on transitioning my work and me wrapping up what I can. I've got fingers in a lot of pies, so it'll be complex even transitioning.
It's amazing how the boss and their communication methods can make such a difference.  I've had 8 bosses in my current job, and a few of them SUUUCKED so bad that honestly I would *never* work for them again.  In fact, a recent position opened up that I'm interested in, right up my alley - not. gonna. do. it.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2056 on: November 28, 2017, 11:49:37 AM »
Congrats!  Sounds like it was a great idea to leave.  Life's too short for that kind of stress all the time.  Kudos to you - now you're on the downhill part. 

Laura33

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2057 on: November 28, 2017, 02:18:59 PM »
Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me. While I like her as a person, as a manager she's a disaster for me.

Wow, if it weren't for the parts I struck out, I'd think you were working for my old toxic boss.  I call it the "swoop and poop" management style.  And from personal experience, it is not fixable.  You did the right thing; congratulations on getting out of there.

Dave1442397

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2058 on: November 28, 2017, 02:54:25 PM »
Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me. While I like her as a person, as a manager she's a disaster for me.

Wow, if it weren't for the parts I struck out, I'd think you were working for my old toxic boss.  I call it the "swoop and poop" management style.  And from personal experience, it is not fixable.  You did the right thing; congratulations on getting out of there.

I had one of those almost twenty years ago. I knew I was stressed out, but I had no idea how bad it was until I left. The last time I saw my current manager was in August...he's very much a hands-off manager :)

AlanStache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2059 on: November 28, 2017, 03:35:59 PM »
Cliff notes of the issues: manager is alternately micromanage-ey and unavailable when you need her, then when you do something perfectly reasonable, tells you that you should have checked with her first. Her written communication style reads as hypercritical and disapproving, even though I know she doesn't intend it that way. Parts of my work require intense manager involvement/review, and she regularly doesn't do this timely. By the time she gets around to it, it's the last minute and becomes a frantic effort to make the changes. Then she tells you not to be so frantic (WTF? You made massive changes to the document half an hour before I have to present it to the VP! I gave the damn thing to you 2 days ago!). While this particular combination is annoying and frustrating for my coworkers, turns out that it's toxic to me. While I like her as a person, as a manager she's a disaster for me.

Wow, if it weren't for the parts I struck out, I'd think you were working for my old toxic boss.  I call it the "swoop and poop" management style.  And from personal experience, it is not fixable.  You did the right thing; congratulations on getting out of there.

I had one of those almost twenty years ago. I knew I was stressed out, but I had no idea how bad it was until I left. The last time I saw my current manager was in August...he's very much a hands-off manager :)

Yep there is a special level of hell for bosses that want to micromanage but dont want to communicate or review what you are doing.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2060 on: November 28, 2017, 03:48:28 PM »
Sibley, so glad you left.  Congrats on having your FU money and new job ducks in a row.  Have a great week painting!

Sibley

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2061 on: November 28, 2017, 05:41:38 PM »
2nd update for you guys - the email went out around noon that I was leaving. The entire department is pissed I'm leaving. Like, staff, managers, directors, VP, everyone. Top to bottom, bottom to top. People from different states, other teams. All of them. I've had all but one of the directors pull me into their office to try to get me to stay, the last one wasn't in the office today. Multiple managers/directors have offered to put me on their teams. The manager I really like told me she feels bad she didn't realize how bad it was (she's in another state, and I haven't really worked with her all year, why should she know?). I overheard a conversation between 2 mgrs about how they're going to tell the business areas (I'm in internal audit), I wasn't supposed to hear that one. Apparently half the damn company loves me, even the people I've been giving findings to left, right and center. The 2 directors on my team are out of town until Thursday for a conference.

Along with that, half the dept seems to know WHY I'm leaving, without me saying anything. I just keep saying I need a change, and they're like, "is it her?" What do I say to that?!?

It was a very weird day. I don't know how to feel. 8 (working) days left.

G-dog

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2062 on: November 28, 2017, 07:15:14 PM »
Wonderfully weird. It’s nice to know that you are so well respected and liked.

AlanStache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2063 on: November 28, 2017, 07:19:23 PM »
2nd update for you guys - the email went out around noon that I was leaving. The entire department is pissed I'm leaving. Like, staff, managers, directors, VP, everyone. Top to bottom, bottom to top. People from different states, other teams. All of them. I've had all but one of the directors pull me into their office to try to get me to stay, the last one wasn't in the office today. Multiple managers/directors have offered to put me on their teams. The manager I really like told me she feels bad she didn't realize how bad it was (she's in another state, and I haven't really worked with her all year, why should she know?). I overheard a conversation between 2 mgrs about how they're going to tell the business areas (I'm in internal audit), I wasn't supposed to hear that one. Apparently half the damn company loves me, even the people I've been giving findings to left, right and center. The 2 directors on my team are out of town until Thursday for a conference.

Along with that, half the dept seems to know WHY I'm leaving, without me saying anything. I just keep saying I need a change, and they're like, "is it her?" What do I say to that?!?

It was a very weird day. I don't know how to feel. 8 (working) days left.

You dont make someone you love work under a horrible boss.  Dont forget who put you there and who did not act to get you out.

lhamo

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2064 on: November 28, 2017, 07:29:59 PM »
OMG -- you are an internal auditor and she was asking for last minute changes?   RECIPE FOR DISASTER!!!!   No wonder you were stressed.  That kind of management style is bad in all circumstances, but lethal in that kind of an environment.

Ultimately the problem is above her, though.  I bet she was a great individual performer.   Just shouldn't have been promoted.

crispy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2065 on: November 28, 2017, 08:14:23 PM »
Way to go , Sibley! Going on your own terms is epic! I had a similar manager years ago...nice enough but just a terrible micromanager. It was just soul sucking and really made me question my abilities.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2066 on: November 29, 2017, 01:27:51 AM »
I think the correct answer to "Is it her?!" is "I've talked to grand-boss (or whoever) about my reasons for leaving and given him/her any feedback on the company that I felt necessary." On repeat if necessary.

UKMustache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2067 on: November 29, 2017, 04:47:05 AM »
I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.
She has a new boss and though Mrs UK often sees the best in people, she hates this person.

New bosses management style includes screaming at staff on a regular basis, reducing people to tears in meetings, blaming others for errors and stealing credit for accomplishments.

The latest issue is petty but incredibly annoying, it prompted Mrs UK to ask me if we will be okay if she quits... we will, by cutting some luxuries we can survive indefinitely on my salary!

Approaching Christmas her team (purchasing) are extremely busy and need to cover certain weekends (black Friday etc).

The rota was agreed 4 months ago, my wife would work Sunday 26th November in exchange for leave on Friday 8th December.  We are going on a family holiday for my mum's birthday and as Mrs UK and I had the 8th booked off, we agreed to drive down before everyone else and collect the keys for the cottage, put up some decorations etc.

On Friday 24th November (2 days before) IT issues crippled the online sales and an emergency 'queuing' system was put in place for the weekend.  This meant Sunday overtime was no longer required as sales were restricted.

As my wife couldn't work the Sunday, she hasn't got the available leave for the 8th December. 

She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.

Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.

This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:
  • This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
  • The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
  • Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
  • We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)

She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him.  If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!

arebelspy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2068 on: November 29, 2017, 04:59:57 AM »
Oh geez, * that.

She should be taking every Friday off (or half days) for all the extra hours she puts in.
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rockeTree

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2069 on: November 29, 2017, 05:03:21 AM »

You dont make someone you love work under a horrible boss.  Dont forget who put you there and who did not act to get you out.

This. At the last job I left the director was horrified. We got along so well! He didn’t expect this! Six months later he called asking me to come back to a different gig...

But six months before I left, after my boss had yet again sabotaged the work of a team of nine people at the last minute, in a fashion bad enough to get written up in the trade press, the director and I had a talk where I said if this dude was allowed to carry on like this I would apply for and get one of the routinely posted, higher paying positions at another place that I was supremely qualified for but hadn’t taken because the commute was a good bit worse. Boss was no better and had been given more authority rather than less. Mr. I’m so shocked and upset was shocked because I did what I said I would do, instead of letting him avoid some tough conversations forever. He didn’t love me and that guy is still there shedding staff right and left.


gaja

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2070 on: November 29, 2017, 05:34:45 AM »
I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.

(...)

She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.

Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.

This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:
  • This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
  • The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
  • Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
  • We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)

She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him.  If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!

She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.

I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.


UKMustache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2071 on: November 29, 2017, 05:48:07 AM »
She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.

I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.

I agree, that is the same advice I gave her.

I've also said that it's cool if she wants to join a gym near work, so she can still do the journey early but doesn't have to go into the office.  If she sets off at 6am the drive takes 25-30 minutes, if she sets off at 7am it takes 1.5 hours.

If it were me, I'd stay in bed and set off after 7am... if the boss gave me a hard time when I was late I'd say they should lead by example... but I'm a dick and Mrs UK isn't :D


She regularly works with the director she is friendly with before official office hours start... I also said that next time he approaches her she should explain that she is in the office but not available for work because her boss said it doesn't count!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 05:49:43 AM by UKMustache »

gaja

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2072 on: November 29, 2017, 05:59:32 AM »
She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.

I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.

I agree, that is the same advice I gave her.

I've also said that it's cool if she wants to join a gym near work, so she can still do the journey early but doesn't have to go into the office.  If she sets off at 6am the drive takes 25-30 minutes, if she sets off at 7am it takes 1.5 hours.

If it were me, I'd stay in bed and set off after 7am... if the boss gave me a hard time when I was late I'd say they should lead by example... but I'm a dick and Mrs UK isn't :D


She regularly works with the director she is friendly with before official office hours start... I also said that next time he approaches her she should explain that she is in the office but not available for work because her boss said it doesn't count!

Great idea to put in an hour at a gym before work! That makes a lot more sense than sitting in traffic for an extra hour.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2073 on: November 29, 2017, 10:29:31 AM »
Poor Mrs UKMustache! My bad self suggests finding something else to do ostentatiously in the office from her arrival time until her official start time. Read a book, watch a film, practice a hobby... If questioned, smile sweetly and explain that since Boss said that work done during this time doesn't count, it doesn't make any sense for her to carry on doing it, does it?

My better self says to simply say "I am taking Friday 8th off as arranged" and see what happens. Odds on, absolutely nothing.

BlueHouse

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2074 on: November 29, 2017, 10:34:25 AM »
I think hidden cameras happen a lot more than people realize.
I think they're fine as long as the employees know they exist. Secret cameras are a whole 'mother story. And no cameras in bathrooms, please.

I know someone who owns multiple donut stores. They're full of cameras, so he can check on them from anywhere with  his phone. IDK if the line staff knows about them, but I'm sure his managers do.

There's really almost no reason not to tell your employees that there are cameras.  It doesn't seem to matter.  People either forget or don't care and those who would, will STILL pull off bad or illegal behavior RIGHT IN FRONT of the cameras!  It's shocking! 

Even at work, where I know internet usage is monitored, here I am....

sequoia

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2075 on: November 29, 2017, 10:37:22 AM »
I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.

(...)

She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.

Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.

This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:
  • This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
  • The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
  • Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
  • We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)

She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him.  If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!

She has to stop working for free. Especially when it isn't even appriciated. Put in the 8 hours, not a second more. If you get no flexibility, you have to stop giving flexibility.

I have no problem being flexible at work, putting in 60 hour weeks when necessary, work late saturday and sunday nights to reach deadlines, etc. But every single of those hours get written down, and I will either receive OT for them, or take PTO. Usually, i end up with 7 weeks of summer holidays, and long weekends whenever it suits me.

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.

+1. Many jobs ago, I used to get to the office early to avoid traffic during my commute. My boss knows this, and he is fine for me leaving early (2-3 PM instead of 5PM). Our team worked with people in around the globe at that time, so it works well that I come in early, and my teammates come in later so we have broader coverage during the day.

9.5 hr everyday and not getting paid extra, bonus, PTO? That is crazy amount of time to work for free imo.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 05:47:05 PM by sequoia »

GnomeErcy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2076 on: November 29, 2017, 02:05:05 PM »
I suspect my wife may deploy our FU money in the near future.
She has a new boss and though Mrs UK often sees the best in people, she hates this person.

New bosses management style includes screaming at staff on a regular basis, reducing people to tears in meetings, blaming others for errors and stealing credit for accomplishments.

The latest issue is petty but incredibly annoying, it prompted Mrs UK to ask me if we will be okay if she quits... we will, by cutting some luxuries we can survive indefinitely on my salary!

Approaching Christmas her team (purchasing) are extremely busy and need to cover certain weekends (black Friday etc).

The rota was agreed 4 months ago, my wife would work Sunday 26th November in exchange for leave on Friday 8th December.  We are going on a family holiday for my mum's birthday and as Mrs UK and I had the 8th booked off, we agreed to drive down before everyone else and collect the keys for the cottage, put up some decorations etc.

On Friday 24th November (2 days before) IT issues crippled the online sales and an emergency 'queuing' system was put in place for the weekend.  This meant Sunday overtime was no longer required as sales were restricted.

As my wife couldn't work the Sunday, she hasn't got the available leave for the 8th December. 

She approached the boss and offered (I think) a fair compromise
I start early in the morning so I will make sure to work the time in lieu before the 8th and take a half-day instead.

Boss refused, stating that my wife starts early anyway so it doesn't count.
Mrs UK does start over an hour early (to avoid traffic) so is contracted to 8 hours per day and works 9.5 hours... every single day.

This has really annoyed Mrs UK because:
  • This boss turns up late most days, including today (the day after this argument)
  • The boss appears to have decided that Mrs UK's voluntary (unpaid) overtime is the companies right
  • Mrs UK often works over weekends and late into the evening to get things done, so now feels very under appreciated
  • We now need to completely re-arrange our travel, my dad will need a day off to travel early instead (self-employed so won't get paid)

She is friendly with one of the directors and is going to raise the issue with him.  If the company don't sort it, they are probably going to lose her!

TBH she should just leave anyway. My wife may do a similar thing.

She asked off in June for the 26th of December. It's the first time her family is out visiting from out of state since she moved a year and a half ago, and she's not taken off around the holidays in 6 years of working at her company.

I told her to just not show up. Worst that happens is they fire her - which is doubtful because her stuff is WAY too much of a shit show for anybody else to want to deal with. Even if they do, oh well.

Luckyvik

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2077 on: November 29, 2017, 03:35:56 PM »

If I want to work for free, I will volunteer at an NGO.
Thanks for this, I’ve been doing free overtime also, must stop doing that.


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Sibley

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2078 on: November 29, 2017, 06:12:03 PM »
OMG -- you are an internal auditor and she was asking for last minute changes?   RECIPE FOR DISASTER!!!!   No wonder you were stressed.  That kind of management style is bad in all circumstances, but lethal in that kind of an environment.

Ultimately the problem is above her, though.  I bet she was a great individual performer.   Just shouldn't have been promoted.

That is exactly why I don't want to move into management. I'm a great auditor. I would be a terrible audit manager. And yes, she was a very good individual performer.

I basically had a breakdown last night. I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really). I got 2 hours sleep last night, and spent the whole train ride in crying. I didn't go to work. I ended up texting a friend (different dept), and she came down for a bit and we talked. Mostly, she helped me calm down a bit. She helped me text in that I was taking the day off, and looked up the train schedule for me. I went home and went back to bed. The cats were very surprised, but happily napped with me.

After getting some sleep (still a mess, but at least I'm semi-functional now), I'm stuck with 2 basic facts. 1. I don't actually want to leave, and 2. even if they make the changes that I've been told they're planning and switched my manager, I don't think it would be enough to fix ME. Because this is NOT me, I don't do this. I am more important than any job, so I'm still leaving. Unfortunately, in my decidedly NOT rational state this morning, I did text my former manager some of this confusion, so now I need to have another chat with the director tomorrow.

Just goes to show how much a bad mgmt style can mess you up, and you may not even realize it.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2079 on: November 29, 2017, 06:31:19 PM »
OMG -- you are an internal auditor and she was asking for last minute changes?   

Holy CRAP.


I basically had a breakdown last night. I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really). I got 2 hours sleep last night, and spent the whole train ride in crying. I didn't go to work. I ended up texting a friend (different dept), and she came down for a bit and we talked. Mostly, she helped me calm down a bit. She helped me text in that I was taking the day off, and looked up the train schedule for me. I went home and went back to bed. The cats were very surprised, but happily napped with me.

After getting some sleep (still a mess, but at least I'm semi-functional now), I'm stuck with 2 basic facts. 1. I don't actually want to leave, and 2. even if they make the changes that I've been told they're planning and switched my manager, I don't think it would be enough to fix ME. Because this is NOT me, I don't do this. I am more important than any job, so I'm still leaving. Unfortunately, in my decidedly NOT rational state this morning, I did text my former manager some of this confusion, so now I need to have another chat with the director tomorrow.

Just goes to show how much a bad mgmt style can mess you up, and you may not even realize it.

Sounds very confusing!  Fwiw, in the midst of confusion, Executing the Plan is usually a good way to overcome the emotional turbulence.  If your plan is to leave, seems like the plan will get you out of a bad situation.

They can always up the ante later and ask for your return... after the bad supervisor is no longer in the job that caused the trouble, once management has become ready to accept more responsibility for their own decisions.  Fwiw, if you were to stay, it still seems like the effect would be to enable the situation to continue.  And you have a perfect cover:  "I already accepted an offer."  I hope you keep and enjoy your upcoming vacation and new job.  Keep getting sleep.  And hey, with all this stress, calling in sick is totally legit!

former player

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2080 on: November 30, 2017, 01:37:14 AM »
Today in conversation with a friend I talked a bit about a situation I had 20 years ago with a bad manager, and realised just how badly it had affected me at the time when I found myself dropping the f bomb about 10 times in one minute.

You are right that you are not the problem, and you are right to move on.  When you have your chat with the director tomorrow, I would think about saying that you are only able to work out your notice if you no longer have to work to your current manager, and that if they are unable to agree to this you will be on sick leave.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2081 on: November 30, 2017, 02:32:42 AM »
I have a couple of freelance friends who have all worked for this guy we call Crazy [Name]. We call him that to remind ourselves never ever ever to work with him again. We've each been through it in turn and it seriously messes with you. Looking back, it's hard to imagine why we put up with him, but at the time we all got this weird tunnel vision about it. Keep leaving - your future self will thank you.

Laura33

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2082 on: November 30, 2017, 06:49:33 AM »
I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).

I am so sorry.  Please realize that this is not on you, this is completely on them.  I really doubt that it was at all personal; they were just checking in at a superficial level, like people do at work; they did *something*, so they ticked that box, and then went on to the next thing, and so when they didn't hear anything else, they assumed everything was fine.

The thing for you to realize is that this is also crappy management.  The fault here is not just with your immediate boss -- it is with every single other manager there who didn't bother to provide that boss with sufficient training or oversight, who focused on short-term band-aids instead of long-term solutions, and who managed passively and reactively (i.e., only in response to complaints) instead of proactively making sure the teams were properly staffed and supervised.

I am sure many of these same people like you very much as a person and respect you professionally.  They are just in a bad management structure and have never been trained on how to manage properly.  That is a problem that comes from the top, and so it is nothing that you could ever fix even if you stayed.

Sibley

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2083 on: November 30, 2017, 08:28:22 AM »
I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).

I am so sorry.  Please realize that this is not on you, this is completely on them.  I really doubt that it was at all personal; they were just checking in at a superficial level, like people do at work; they did *something*, so they ticked that box, and then went on to the next thing, and so when they didn't hear anything else, they assumed everything was fine.

The thing for you to realize is that this is also crappy management.  The fault here is not just with your immediate boss -- it is with every single other manager there who didn't bother to provide that boss with sufficient training or oversight, who focused on short-term band-aids instead of long-term solutions, and who managed passively and reactively (i.e., only in response to complaints) instead of proactively making sure the teams were properly staffed and supervised.

I am sure many of these same people like you very much as a person and respect you professionally.  They are just in a bad management structure and have never been trained on how to manage properly.  That is a problem that comes from the top, and so it is nothing that you could ever fix even if you stayed.

I know. However, I clearly hit a breaking point. I'm better today, back at work. I'm still emotionally fragile though, and I know it. I'm trying to be very careful to manage my stress load, make sure I eat and sleep enough, etc. One day at a time. This is very unlike me, I've never done anything like this before.

Edit: to be clear, I'm still leaving this job for the new one. I clearly need a change.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 08:32:55 AM by Sibley »

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2084 on: November 30, 2017, 08:37:08 AM »
Great update. Sending you lots of positive energy and hugs.

Aegishjalmur

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2085 on: November 30, 2017, 09:04:38 AM »
Sibley,

Congrats on getting out. No job is worth that level of emotional and mental stress.

MrMoogle

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2086 on: November 30, 2017, 11:08:37 AM »
It sounds like you could use more than a week between jobs.  You might want to explore those options.

Sibley

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2087 on: November 30, 2017, 11:23:05 AM »
It sounds like you could use more than a week between jobs.  You might want to explore those options.

I'm thinking about it. Haven't decided.

Daisy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2088 on: November 30, 2017, 11:24:46 AM »
I honestly thought that mgmt knew I was unhappy, but they didn't care. There have been several specific incidents this year that someone SHOULD have checked in with me, and they didn't. And I talked to them a couple times, got short term help but no long term fix. It appears, based on everyone's reaction to my leaving, that they really didn't get it, and I couldn't process that contradiction (still can't really).

I am so sorry.  Please realize that this is not on you, this is completely on them.  I really doubt that it was at all personal; they were just checking in at a superficial level, like people do at work; they did *something*, so they ticked that box, and then went on to the next thing, and so when they didn't hear anything else, they assumed everything was fine.

The thing for you to realize is that this is also crappy management.  The fault here is not just with your immediate boss -- it is with every single other manager there who didn't bother to provide that boss with sufficient training or oversight, who focused on short-term band-aids instead of long-term solutions, and who managed passively and reactively (i.e., only in response to complaints) instead of proactively making sure the teams were properly staffed and supervised.

I am sure many of these same people like you very much as a person and respect you professionally.  They are just in a bad management structure and have never been trained on how to manage properly.  That is a problem that comes from the top, and so it is nothing that you could ever fix even if you stayed.

I know. However, I clearly hit a breaking point. I'm better today, back at work. I'm still emotionally fragile though, and I know it. I'm trying to be very careful to manage my stress load, make sure I eat and sleep enough, etc. One day at a time. This is very unlike me, I've never done anything like this before.

Edit: to be clear, I'm still leaving this job for the new one. I clearly need a change.

Yep, agree with Laura33.

When I initially went to HR, they did have a talk with my managers and the tension reduced.

However, when I went to HR the second time, HR person said "but we had a talk with them to tame down the rhetoric". I said yes, they have been nicer to me...but in the sense that now they were barely talking with me, just politely smiling at me in the hallway. So the nasty managers' response was to just avoid me. Maybe they were worried they would screw up again by talking with me and were protecting themselves.

Also, the HR person tried to institute some seminars on improving the work environment, but none of the managers in my department attended. It was only individual contributors that attended. It was a voluntary seminar. I brought this up to the HR person during the second talk, to point out that my management really had no interest in changing. Others had noticed too that no managers went.

I am so happy to be gone.

KT's Stache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2089 on: November 30, 2017, 11:42:27 AM »
Sibley as someone who is about a month "farther along" than you in this same process, I can tell you it will be hard, but such a positive change once you have a bit of time to reflect on everything that is happening.

I was in a job for 9 years with poor management, and then 4 years ago transferred to a different office where the "worst" manager was the person I was working closest with. I pushed hard to pretend that I could handle it, and that I really did have it all together but was offered a great (and very different) job by a business owner friend and I decided to make a change. I had no idea how much of my identity was wrapped up in being KT from XX, and I was in serious denial about how much stress/unhappiness this job was causing me. Giving my notice was the hardest thing I have done, and then I doubted and freaked out about it for 3 days afterwords until the entire company was informed. After that, it was a great experience (well mostly....).  Co-workers, clients, and community contacts were telling me just what a great job I had done and how much they were going to miss me. I was getting such apathetic or negative feedback for so long before this, I had managed to convince myself that I wasn't good at my job (and basically sucked at all areas of life too). I was so mad that no one had communicated the positive thoughts/feedback to me while I still worked there. I was getting comments like you seem stressed, you should take a day off, but no one actually cared enough to ask me how I was actually doing.

I took a week off between jobs, and was able to process through where my values were and how I actually felt about myself and am working to re-align my life with those values/goals.  My recommendation would be to talk to a couple of different people who know/understand you (your likes, values, goals, skills ect) really well and take some time to talk through this process, then think and evaluate on your own. I repeated this process of going back and forth between friends and introspective thinking several times and each gave me more clarity into myself. 

In the end, it has been an exhausting, emotional, difficult but great outcome. When I started my new job, I had 4 other professionals asking me to do other contracting work for them during their busy time of the year. So, I went from a job where I worked 3,000 hours a year, to one where I work 30-32 hours a week (with only 1 day a week in the office, the rest is at home), and can do contract work when I want, according to my schedule, with people I like to work with. I took a small pay cut to go to part time, but when you factor in the contract work, I will be making about 50% more each year.  This new plan I have aligns with the goals I identified, of having more location mobility/flexibility, more freedom, and allows me more quality time to spend with the people and causes that I hold near to my hear.

A long story to say You can do it!!! Keep yourself a priority, and keep working hard to figure out how life is "Best" for you.
KT
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:54:39 AM by KT's Stache »

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2090 on: November 30, 2017, 07:16:08 PM »
Great post, KT!

Sibley

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2091 on: November 30, 2017, 08:22:02 PM »
Yes, thanks KT.

I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2092 on: December 01, 2017, 12:15:48 AM »
Yes, thanks KT.

I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.
Imagine the entire Tenth Anniversary All-Star Cast of Les Miserables belting out "One Day More". You'll get through this and go on to better things and a happier life soon, Sibley, very, very soon.

Prairie Stash

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2093 on: December 01, 2017, 08:21:19 AM »
Yes, thanks KT.

I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.
Imagine the entire Tenth Anniversary All-Star Cast of Les Miserables belting out "One Day More". You'll get through this and go on to better things and a happier life soon, Sibley, very, very soon.
Love the song (one of my favourite memories was seeing it performed while travelling overseas), but didn't most of the people singing meet a tragic end? I also travelled the sewer system in Paris, an actual tourist destination, that Jean Valjean escaped into. Again I hope Sibley fares better ;) 

(hoping Sibley sees the humour, laughter is the best medicine)

Sibley

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2094 on: December 01, 2017, 08:59:54 AM »
Yes, thanks KT.

I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.
Imagine the entire Tenth Anniversary All-Star Cast of Les Miserables belting out "One Day More". You'll get through this and go on to better things and a happier life soon, Sibley, very, very soon.
Love the song (one of my favourite memories was seeing it performed while travelling overseas), but didn't most of the people singing meet a tragic end? I also travelled the sewer system in Paris, an actual tourist destination, that Jean Valjean escaped into. Again I hope Sibley fares better ;) 

(hoping Sibley sees the humour, laughter is the best medicine)

I'm working on it! Am hanging in there. Thanks all - it helps. (and found out the person taking over some of my projects is struggling with the same things I am. this team has issues)

markbike528CBX

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2095 on: December 01, 2017, 12:42:06 PM »
Yes, thanks KT.

I made it through the day without incident. A few coworkers are aware that I'm somewhat fragile (it was obvious to them, they know me well enough), and quietly redirected conversations a few times. Which I am very grateful for.
Imagine the entire Tenth Anniversary All-Star Cast of Les Miserables belting out "One Day More". You'll get through this and go on to better things and a happier life soon, Sibley, very, very soon.
Love the song (one of my favourite memories was seeing it performed while travelling overseas), but didn't most of the people singing meet a tragic end? I also travelled the sewer system in Paris, an actual tourist destination, that Jean Valjean escaped into. Again I hope Sibley fares better ;) 

(hoping Sibley sees the humour, laughter is the best medicine)

I'm working on it! Am hanging in there. Thanks all - it helps. (and found out the person taking over some of my projects is struggling with the same things I am. this team has issues)

For a song I'd suggest The Real McKenzies - Best Day Untill Tomorrow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lQ5zg4aOJY

Enjoy what'chas got, not what you have not
'tis a weak heart lamenting with sorrow
When the days seem cursed, it could always be worse
Fight depression with sword and arrow

.......

When the world ain't right, and it smithes ye with strife
Ye can now buckle down, it's a test they call life
Very soon you will see what kind of animal you'd be
Taking the bite outta life

When they're testing the gallows, yer hung like a dog
Or they're marching us out to a firing squad
We just smile and recall all the good times we had
It's the best 'til tomorrow

It's the best day 'til tomorrow

........

mm1970

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2096 on: December 01, 2017, 05:11:02 PM »
Quote
Also, the HR person tried to institute some seminars on improving the work environment, but none of the managers in my department attended. It was only individual contributors that attended. It was a voluntary seminar. I brought this up to the HR person during the second talk, to point out that my management really had no interest in changing. Others had noticed too that no managers went.

I went to a week long training on management.  Many of our managers went there.  The worst one (a former manager of mine) actually argued with the teacher.  I rolled my eyes SO HARD behind him.  The topic was how to handle ideas in meetings, and to never "tell someone their idea was stupid".  (He was the worst at that.)  He actually said, during this class "sometimes you just HAVE TO be blunt to keep the meeting moving!"

Funniest thing is this guy would tell me how dumb my ideas were, even though I had 10+ years in the industry and he had zero - and he would come up with this GREAT IDEA 2 weeks later.  I stopped coming up with ideas in meeting, and just started running experiments on the side and presenting results when they were done.

Mrs Hen

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2097 on: December 08, 2017, 11:27:31 AM »
Wow.  I just finished (re)reading the entire thread, and there are some amazing, inspirational stories here.

It's really helped me come to terms with my own situation, and make a big decision.

I've been working in my field for nearly 30 years, and 21 years with my current employer.  I am good at what I do, work with some great people, and am respected.  I have a good pay and benefits package.  So far, so good.

My company has changed culturally over the years to the point where the only thing that matters is the bottom line.  I understand we need to make money, but there used to be a caring attitude towards employees that paid them back in spades.

The changes have happened gradually over several years, but have suddenly added up to become a huge deal for me.

I am currently working for my 7th line manager in 6 years.  In the last 2 years, I have dealt with my Mother's breast cancer (she's fine now), my Father's rapid decline and death, my Grandmother's gradual decline and death, my own diagnosis with adult onset diabetes, and planned my wedding (the good bit!).

Funnily enough, I ended up in a very fragile mental state , and I was prescribed medication for stress and depression.  These have been slowly reducing over the summer, with a view to coming off them altogether very soon.

Being respected in my role is wonderful, but it has meant I've become the "go-to girl" for everything.  I took on as much as I could over and above my primary role, but I'm aware most of my colleagues are only doing the primary role.  I am not paid any extra for doing the extra work.  I realised I was not coping, went to my manager (promoted into the role 3 months ago), explained my concerns about my health, and asked for my workload to be temporarily reduced for a couple of months while a particular large project was delivered.  Once that was done, I was very happy to take on the extra stuff again.

My manager said no.  No discussion.  My colleagues would be upset, and she wouldn't like that.  So no.

Cue lots of tears (in private!), and a text to my husband asking him if we could afford for me to quit.  He said we could afford for me to do whatever I needed to do.

My doctor has put my medications back up to the maximum dose.  I did not take any time off sick.

I did, however, start looking at our savings in a different way.  We crunched some numbers and realised we were in a pretty good place.  Not FI, but well on our way.  A line from way back in this thread came back to me.  I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job.

I do love my primary role, so I've come up with a plan of action, and I've put in application to go part time.  The company has 3 months to give me an answer, but I think I have a good chance.  If they say no, I will ask to be demoted to a level where there is no expectation of accepting extra tasks.  If they reject that, I'll quit.

So a HUGE thank you to everyone who has posted here.  Some good decisions early in my working life, living within my means, and a nudge (facepunch) from here has made me realise I actually have FU money, and I've had the nerve to use it.

Sorry for the long post!!

rantk81

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2098 on: December 08, 2017, 11:38:21 AM »
...
My company has changed culturally over the years to the point where the only thing that matters is the bottom line.  I understand we need to make money, but there used to be a caring attitude towards employees that paid them back in spades.

The changes have happened gradually over several years, but have suddenly added up to become a huge deal for me.
...

Many parallels with my employer ...

former player

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #2099 on: December 08, 2017, 12:16:56 PM »
A line from way back in this thread came back to me.  I may need A job, but I don't need THIS job.

I do love my primary role, so I've come up with a plan of action, and I've put in application to go part time.  The company has 3 months to give me an answer, but I think I have a good chance.  If they say no, I will ask to be demoted to a level where there is no expectation of accepting extra tasks.  If they reject that, I'll quit.

So a HUGE thank you to everyone who has posted here.  Some good decisions early in my working life, living within my means, and a nudge (facepunch) from here has made me realise I actually have FU money, and I've had the nerve to use it.

Sorry for the long post!!
No need to apologise: stories like yours are the reason this thread exists.  Congratulations on the FU money and the imminent move to part time/demotion/another job.

While you are waiting for a decision on the part time, you have nothing to lose by pushing back on some of those extra tasks.  Simply saying to someone who asks you to do something extra "I don't have time at the moment, if you want you can ask me again after [Christmas/New Year/Easter] might help in the meantime.