Epic FU money stories

[ducky19]

Good for you, Jinga! Adding that, at least in my state, you've got a waiting week that is unpaid, so you'd really only be looking at 1 week's pay. Glad you're in a position to not need to stress about it!

[Dicey]

But I'll do them justice in the exit survey. And I know a couple of people who interviewed with them, so you know... ;-)

I would not assume that the survey is anonymous and would remember that it could get shared around and be read by someone out of context or get selectively edited.

It isn’t anonymous. I’ve never burned bridges in the past, and I don’t intend to. My survey responses will be professional and direct. No personal attacks.

My internal voice is singing: https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0 and https://youtu.be/cE4lpSFNFUE

When, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?

[LightTripper]

Another suggestion for your internal playlist... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE

[TomTX]

Good for you, Jinga! Adding that, at least in my state, you've got a waiting week that is unpaid, so you'd really only be looking at 1 week's pay. Glad you're in a position to not need to stress about it!

Here in Texas, the "waiting week" isn't actually unpaid, it's just delayed until the end of UI.

[bacchi]

Another suggestion for your internal playlist... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE

Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDv5bqmkOl8, probably the shortest anti-job song around.

[TomTX]

Another suggestion for your internal playlist... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE

Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDv5bqmkOl8, probably the shortest anti-job song around.

Ahem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0k5Q5OFGTo

[Fresh Bread]

Another suggestion for your internal playlist... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE

Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDv5bqmkOl8, probably the shortest anti-job song around.

Ahem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0k5Q5OFGTo

I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs

[TomTX]

When, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?

Harsh!

...yet totally incisive query.

<3 your awesomeness, Dicey! (in a totally platonic way, I swear! If I were ever going non-platonic, it would totally be my idol @spartana despite being irredeemably monogamous for decades and never yet seeing an image of their physical form... @spartana is just so awesome!)

[ATtiny85]

I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs

Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"

[Fresh Bread]

I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs

Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"

And he's not that old and can still do a high kick - he's going to have a great retirement!

[solon]

I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs

Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"

And did you notice the janitor? Giving him the rock-on sign?

[AccidentialMustache]

Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"

I have t-shirts from a previous tech job that we refer to as Bruno (as in, "We don't talk about Bruno!" -- the tech job, not the t-shirts).

They're great when I'm stir frying, frying bacon, making pasta sauce, painting ... basically anything that might trash my clothes.

[RWTL]

I have always loved this ad (the company sells retirement/investment funds).
https://youtu.be/zKEcN40DrUs

Yeah, the dumping of his personal items in the trash is the best. "nothing even remotely associated with this building has any value for me"

And he's not that old and can still do a high kick - he's going to have a great retirement!

...And I love the comedic first kick doesn't open the door.

[BuffaloStache]

The fact that you had bad experiences there in the past combined with the fact that they put you through multiple rounds before saying no even with a referral from a director makes it seem like (at least to me) that you dodged a pretty big bullet there.

@ChickenStash don't mean to get in the habit of digging up older posts, but wanted to provide some context here. Last year I applied for an internal promotion position at my company, and HR policy stated that "all candidates must be interviewed", regardless of the position or the candidate. So the HR admin (who I'd worked with for years) scheduled an interview with my now co-workers (who I'd also worked with for years; they were in an adjacent group but we interacted often). I took it seriously and wore a suit and everything.

For the 3 hours of "interviews", many jokes were made about the fact that I decided to wear a suit (and a tie!), and the one piece of advice I got from the technical lead (but not supervisor) in the group was "make sure you ask for more money when you get the offer!". Sure enough I got the offer and am in the position now- I feel like that's how things should be done if they are required by corporate policy.

[Alternatepriorities]

The fact that you had bad experiences there in the past combined with the fact that they put you through multiple rounds before saying no even with a referral from a director makes it seem like (at least to me) that you dodged a pretty big bullet there.

@ChickenStash don't mean to get in the habit of digging up older posts, but wanted to provide some context here. Last year I applied for an internal promotion position at my company, and HR policy stated that "all candidates must be interviewed", regardless of the position or the candidate. So the HR admin (who I'd worked with for years) scheduled an interview with my now co-workers (who I'd also worked with for years; they were in an adjacent group but we interacted often). I took it seriously and wore a suit and everything.

For the 3 hours of "interviews", many jokes were made about the fact that I decided to wear a suit (and a tie!), and the one piece of advice I got from the technical lead (but not supervisor) in the group was "make sure you ask for more money when you get the offer!". Sure enough I got the offer and am in the position now- I feel like that's how things should be done if they are required by corporate policy.

That is awesome! Well done to your coworkers and hr admin.

[AlanStache]

...
I haven't read all this thread yet and don't really have an epic FU story but did have a great Peter Gibbons moment:  Worked a 10 hour/4 day work week at my old Gov agency. Core hours 6 am to 4:30 plus one week a month on call 24/7 and tons of OT including holidays, weekends, and nights so pretty heavy work load mostly in the outdoors in all weather.

One day the Director told us we were changing to a 9/80 schedule with new hours to start at 7:30 am and every other Fri on. I did my best Peter Gibbons imitation: "gee Bob that's not gonna work for me so I'm not going to do it and will continue to come in a 6 am and work 4 days a week". Bob get flustered: " but but but you can't do that! You have to start coming in at 7:30 and work until 5." Me: " yeah...no I'm just gonna come in at 6 and work to 4:30". Bob: "....!!!!". Me: " been swell talking to you Bob now I gonna pretend like Im working so you need to go away now. I'll see you tomorrow at 6." Bob: ".....!!!!!...."

Wait I thought Peter was chill with the Bobs but learned to live life by telling Bill Lumbergh 'no', I have not see the move in a few years. 

[ChickenStash]

My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).

The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.

I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :(
...

The Drama Llama enters stage right...

They called back this afternoon to say they rewrote the job description to better match my skill set and they are offering me the position. Only a 40% raise, though (this does actually make sense given the rewrite).

Stream of thoughts... So now I have to decide if things are different enough from then to now to try this. With the changes in management and high turnover, they are likely different. I know I'm different after leaving there and my outlook on work is a lot different from where I was on my FIRE journey at that time - this joint is what actually made me search out FIRE. I can't predict if things would be better but if they are significantly dissimilar then that's something.

On the positive side, the pay bump cuts my full FIRE time by about 2 years (7>5), in theory. Possibly more as there is room in the scale that my current gig doesn't have (not raise eligible). I'd also no longer be in an oncall rotation and might only have to handle a few after-hours calls a year if something big blows up.

Decisions, decisions....

[Sibley]

My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).

The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.

I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :(
...

The Drama Llama enters stage right...

They called back this afternoon to say they rewrote the job description to better match my skill set and they are offering me the position. Only a 40% raise, though (this does actually make sense given the rewrite).

Stream of thoughts... So now I have to decide if things are different enough from then to now to try this. With the changes in management and high turnover, they are likely different. I know I'm different after leaving there and my outlook on work is a lot different from where I was on my FIRE journey at that time - this joint is what actually made me search out FIRE. I can't predict if things would be better but if they are significantly dissimilar then that's something.

On the positive side, the pay bump cuts my full FIRE time by about 2 years (7>5), in theory. Possibly more as there is room in the scale that my current gig doesn't have (not raise eligible). I'd also no longer be in an oncall rotation and might only have to handle a few after-hours calls a year if something big blows up.

Decisions, decisions....

Can you talk to anyone currently, or more recently, there? Get a sense of culture, management, etc?

[ChickenStash]

My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).

The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.

I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :(
...

The Drama Llama enters stage right...

They called back this afternoon to say they rewrote the job description to better match my skill set and they are offering me the position. Only a 40% raise, though (this does actually make sense given the rewrite).

Stream of thoughts... So now I have to decide if things are different enough from then to now to try this. With the changes in management and high turnover, they are likely different. I know I'm different after leaving there and my outlook on work is a lot different from where I was on my FIRE journey at that time - this joint is what actually made me search out FIRE. I can't predict if things would be better but if they are significantly dissimilar then that's something.

On the positive side, the pay bump cuts my full FIRE time by about 2 years (7>5), in theory. Possibly more as there is room in the scale that my current gig doesn't have (not raise eligible). I'd also no longer be in an oncall rotation and might only have to handle a few after-hours calls a year if something big blows up.

Decisions, decisions....

Can you talk to anyone currently, or more recently, there? Get a sense of culture, management, etc?

Unfortunately, I don't have any contacts there other than the director that reached out. Everyone else I worked with fled within a month or two of me leaving. I've had a few long conversations with my director friend and I get the sense things have quieted down somewhat since I was there (3.5 years ago).

I was in a uniquely bad position there last time and this position would be in a different area but there would still be some overlap.

[Gronnie]

It's a 40% raise and I assume you have FU money?

You should be in a much better position to set firm boundaries from the start, and if it ends up sucking too much just peace out and find something else.

[Gremlin]

My current employer is going through some merger/acquisition drama that is making life difficult and may eliminate my job in the next year or two so things are "interesting." A previous work-friend texted me a few weeks ago that he's now a director at a past employer and has a position to fill that might work for me. Sounded like a cool gig - better title, interesting tech, and a 50% pay increase (!).

The problem is that company had a very bad corporate culture and I left there for some strong reasons that included dealing with the people on the team this position is with. While chatting with him about it, most of the people that were there have left (high turnover) so things might be better, but there were some notable folks still around. It was tough, but I managed to convince myself it would be OK and it would shave a few years off my FIRE journey. I'd also get ahead of the potential instability in my current gig. I forced myself into a positive attitude about the job and went for it.

I made it through the multiple rounds of interviews but in the end they said no. :(
...

The Drama Llama enters stage right...

They called back this afternoon to say they rewrote the job description to better match my skill set and they are offering me the position. Only a 40% raise, though (this does actually make sense given the rewrite).

Stream of thoughts... So now I have to decide if things are different enough from then to now to try this. With the changes in management and high turnover, they are likely different. I know I'm different after leaving there and my outlook on work is a lot different from where I was on my FIRE journey at that time - this joint is what actually made me search out FIRE. I can't predict if things would be better but if they are significantly dissimilar then that's something.

On the positive side, the pay bump cuts my full FIRE time by about 2 years (7>5), in theory. Possibly more as there is room in the scale that my current gig doesn't have (not raise eligible). I'd also no longer be in an oncall rotation and might only have to handle a few after-hours calls a year if something big blows up.

Decisions, decisions....

Obviously you need to decide based on a range of things other than money.  But they don't know what your decision criteria is.  The fact that they've done this in this way suggests to me that they are desperate to get you across the line.  If you do decide to take the role, it feels like you're in a position of strength in terms of negotiating salary.  I wouldn't make threats, but if you decide you want the role you might want to say something like this:

"We were originally talking about a role paying $X.  This has now been revised down to $Y and I do understand the rationale.  Remuneration is obviously not my only consideration and I'm genuinely interested, but an offer of $Y is less attractive relative to my current salary and career trajectory than what we were first contemplating."

There's a couple of reasons for this. 

1.  Everything in the statement is 100% true.  You want to be honest in your negotiations.
2.  You know that they have a budget where $X is available.  And you know that they want you because they wouldn't have restructured the role if they didn't.
3.  What the last bit says is actually that $Y is less attractive than $X.  That's the comparison you are making.  But by anchoring the description of the salary offer to your current and future trajectory salary, what they'll be thinking about is that $Y doesn't stand out relative to your current situation.  Now they don't know your current circumstances and, if that's the comparison your making, then it puts them at a negotiating disadvantage.  They may have an inkling of your current salary, but adding the 'career trajectory' comment says that it's as much about future potential as today's situation.  (Even if you know the current position doesn't offer much in that way, they don't have to know that).
4.  You're not rejecting the current offer and you give yourself plenty of room to 'graciously accept' if this is their final offer.

Put it all together, particularly if delivered in a non-threatening way, I think you'll extract their best offer.  It may not be the 50% bump, but I think it's likely that they'll go higher than the current offer if I'm correctly reading the tea leaves here.

[Alfred J Quack]

Not sure this is going to be an epic FU story but it's ongoing so we'll see.

I'm in a big project, our ERP system is being upgraded and I'm responsible for the integrations with other applications. The project is going pretty badly, no technical or functional design was needed according to our manager and as you can expect we're suffering for it during the project.
So bad that pretty much the entire project leadership has been replaced one way or another, including my manager, the lead I was reporting to etc. While we're approaching acceptance we still only have one working integration with the other three main ones coming along.
I've been warning, for months now, that other applications that are not directly connected also need to be tested but it's fallen on deaf ears. My responsibility is the technical workings of the integrations, functional workings are explicitly not.

The main joy I've had from this project was the time where I was working in depth  in figuring out how the API worked. Dumping it's contents into Excel, CSV, SQL, whatever. In the past months I've gotten feedback from at least 2 vendors that they really had uses for the scripts I've written, including a Q&A session with the Enterprise Architect of the Microsoft Partner for Business Central solutions. I was like wtf!
I've also gotten direct and indirect comments that my work was being used with other customers (which was fine) and really gave me a confidence boost. So much so that I decided to apply for a job as an integrations developer for a local company.

Here comes the FU money part: I basically wrote my coverletter like "I make programs with powershell to integrate API's, here's my Github and let me know if you can use me."
Next day I see 7 clones (0 up until then) and the day after that I get an invite for a talk with their HR.
In the call I basically state I'm willing to work for them but that I need regular time off for my youngest son (down's syndrome with lots of care appointments) and that I use specific hardware because I'm sensitive to overstim (e-ink display, ANC headphones). So far so good, I'm on to the 2nd of 3 rounds 😗

Fast forward a bit and I've got 2 2nd round interviews lined up and a very concerned manager trying hard to keep me (still no actual offer though). I told my manager I'd seriously consider staying but it also depend on the other offers (mainly need flexible hours for DS's care appointments which is almost weekly).

I had a very open talk with my manager this monday. I really didn't give a fig about letting him know where I was applying and why. He countered by painting a picture where the department is going. Downside is that his position is interim and ends on juli 1st and won't be extended (so, we'll be without a manager for a while probably).
I'm not against staying and if manager's offer is what he laid on the table I'm going to get some distance from a very toxic colleague. It would also create some distance between me and my sysadmin buddies for a subset of colleagues I've only talked with around the coffee table and not as much in actual work relations. I'm still a bit hesitant but I've got the luxury of choice 😜

[BicycleB]

if you decide you want the role you might want to say something like this:

"We were originally talking about a role paying $X.  This has now been revised down to $Y and I do understand the rationale.  Remuneration is obviously not my only consideration and I'm genuinely interested, but an offer of $Y is less attractive relative to my current salary and career trajectory than what we were first contemplating."

Wow - great script, @Gremlin!

[zolotiyeruki]

I had a very open talk with my manager this monday. I really didn't give a fig about letting him know where I was applying and why. He countered by painting a picture where the department is going. Downside is that his position is interim and ends on juli 1st and won't be extended (so, we'll be without a manager for a while probably).

This should stand out as a bright, flashing red flag.  Several times in my career, I've found myself in a similar position, where a manager has told me about "things that are coming down the pipeline" or "yeah, we have you lined up for project X" or "when X event happens, then you'll see Y improvement at work."

Don't fall for it.  Such encouraging words are worth precisely zero,  especially when coming from a manager who won't be there to ensure that they come to pass.  This is not, by any means, and indictment of the manager--he probably has full intentions of following through to the extent of his abilities.  It's just the reality of business.  The moment you agree to stay, management no longer have an incentive to do anything to keep you.  So, get your offers and concessions (salary, project, people you can avoid, etc) first (and in writing!), before you agree to stay.

[RWTL]

So, get your offers and concessions (salary, project, people you can avoid, etc) first (and in writing!), before you agree to stay.

This

[TomTX]

So, get your offers and concessions (salary, project, people you can avoid, etc) first (and in writing!), before you agree to stay.

This

Agreed.

[Alfred J Quack]

I had a very open talk with my manager this monday. I really didn't give a fig about letting him know where I was applying and why. He countered by painting a picture where the department is going. Downside is that his position is interim and ends on juli 1st and won't be extended (so, we'll be without a manager for a while probably).

This should stand out as a bright, flashing red flag.  Several times in my career, I've found myself in a similar position, where a manager has told me about "things that are coming down the pipeline" or "yeah, we have you lined up for project X" or "when X event happens, then you'll see Y improvement at work."

Don't fall for it.  Such encouraging words are worth precisely zero,  especially when coming from a manager who won't be there to ensure that they come to pass.  This is not, by any means, and indictment of the manager--he probably has full intentions of following through to the extent of his abilities.  It's just the reality of business.  The moment you agree to stay, management no longer have an incentive to do anything to keep you.  So, get your offers and concessions (salary, project, people you can avoid, etc) first (and in writing!), before you agree to stay.

I'm not planning to fall for it, if they want me to stay they'll have to put it in writing because talk is cheap and writing is gold. I'm fine with them putting requirements on it for me (certification and training) because that's what I'd do if I put someone like me in that position but I'm not giving them the illusion that I'll be doing that in my own time.

[Goose]

Thought it would be time for me to add my story.

I've been in technology my whole career focusing on the digital transformation of manufacturing and distribution organizations.  Not maintenance, but the full out change of modernization.  Scary stuff if not done right.  I realized very early that to be effective you have to be able to speak your mind to the powers that be OR you could easily get caught up in something disasterous.  Many of the leaders you work with are successful individuals, but very few have been through a digital transformation as they occur only every couple of decades in an organization.  Seriously - organizations die if not led properly through these transformations by the WHOLE management team. 

FU money enables you to walk away if it ends up going in the wrong direction.  Not a "take my ball and go home if not following my way" type stuff, but as a last card if enough red flags go up and you are attempting to course correct.  Why last card, because if it has gotten this far and your course correction fails - you do not want to be there.  #1 - as IT Leadership, you are usually the first to be fired if there is a disaster.  #2 - when looking for your next job, you don't want a disaster on your resume (trust me - disasters get into the marketplace).  Walking is better.

First time I participated in leveraging this was when I was in consulting.  Client was implementing an ERP system and the project was not going well.  Name the red flag and this project had it.  We told the CIO then the CEO where improvements needed to be made.  As the project continued to go south with our recommendations not heeded, we said of our recommedations here are the couple that were non-negotiable or we walk.  At this point our client was the highest grossing client of the whole organization (tier B CPA firm in the 90s), so major dollars for the firm.  Result - we walked.  The partner on the project was not upset, just practical when he told me "rather walk away now with our reputations intact than after the project implodes".  Best lesson I ever learned as that project blew up six months later and the company cleaned house of everyone involved.  Lawsuits ensued.  Reputations were tarnished.  Other companies knew we walked away and it made our repuation stronger....

I left consulting but kept up 2 things - #1 - my love of a full digital transformation, and #2 - my realization that I may need to walk at any moment.  I needed FU money.

Years later I'm at a company in trouble - severe technology debt and continuing to lose market share for a variety of reasons.  I was brought in the lead them out of their technology debt.  Did many great things, but the continued loss of market share meant we changed our CEO every couple of years.  I was successful in getting buy-in on the long term plan with each successive CEO...until the last one.  Two challenges - #1 It was his first CEO gig - former CFO - and he had never been through a digital transformation, and #2 he liked to bring in his own people.  Both fine and while his lack of understanding of the challenge before us was concerning I was stunned when the person who he brought in above me was even worse.  I'd reported to the CEO since my arrival and having a person put between us put me on alert than I was being targeted.  Whatever.  But when this person did not have the knowledge to be in the position.....not good.  He had never been IT Leadership, just IT Sales. 

I honestly tried to get both to see the light, but it was just never going to happen.  My days were numbered, but hey I've got FU money for this!

But to leave I had a challenge - I would have to move in order to find another position and I had kids in middle school.  I didn't want to be the one to leave so I could tell my kids it was not my decision to leave this city they had lived in for the past 6 years.  So I waited.  Turns out the company was making it more and more miserable for me hoping I would leave, so after awhile they realized I was holding out for a golden parachute just like many of the other Executives who had been shown the door before me.

Finally HR came to me with a meager offer (CEO and my boss were not involved whatsoever), so I said I would leave on 2 conditions:
#1 - they would never degrade my work and/or actions ever OR our deal was off.
#2 - the meager offer needed to be improved.

Rejected.

I asked the HR representative to reconsider and started listing off all of the projects I was aware/involved in both executed and considered.  He had no clue what they were, but he wrote them down as I instructed and he took them with him.  I was an Exec so knew of various plans accumulated over my 6 years - ranging from competitive advantages (I had no non-compete) to an attempt to weaken the union representation at two of their largest plants.  I was offering my silence.

Within an hour HR got back to me with a real offer which was more than enough to cover the period I was out of work AND buy into a PE opportunity at my next position.  It was glorious.

Without FU money, I would have played it very differently.  Safer.  With FU money, I had the ability to tolerate risk to get a better resolution.  Some may say I was lucky it worked out for me, but I view it as the inevitable and my ability to push back is how I received a reasonable offer.   

For those who are wondering - company never said why I left and it must have been painful because I know as their situation got worse many asked if Goose could be persuaded to come back and take their IT forward.  If only they knew...

[scottish]

Nicely done, goose. 

[jinga nation]

Hat tip @Goose

I wanted to make a "Duck, Duck, Goose" joke, but realized it'd be quite fowl. So I chickened out. :p

[scottish]

That story was golden, goose.

[dignam]

Hat tip @Goose

I wanted to make a "Duck, Duck, Goose" joke, but realized it'd be quite fowl. So I chickened out. :p

Aw, let the joke fly.

[BicycleB]

Hat tip @Goose

I wanted to make a "Duck, Duck, Goose" joke, but realized it'd be quite fowl. So I chickened out. :p

Aw, let the joke fly.

A cardinal set of puns.

[Alfred J Quack]

Not sure this is going to be an epic FU story but it's ongoing so we'll see.

I'm in a big project, our ERP system is being upgraded and I'm responsible for the integrations with other applications. The project is going pretty badly, no technical or functional design was needed according to our manager and as you can expect we're suffering for it during the project.
So bad that pretty much the entire project leadership has been replaced one way or another, including my manager, the lead I was reporting to etc. While we're approaching acceptance we still only have one working integration with the other three main ones coming along.
I've been warning, for months now, that other applications that are not directly connected also need to be tested but it's fallen on deaf ears. My responsibility is the technical workings of the integrations, functional workings are explicitly not.

The main joy I've had from this project was the time where I was working in depth  in figuring out how the API worked. Dumping it's contents into Excel, CSV, SQL, whatever. In the past months I've gotten feedback from at least 2 vendors that they really had uses for the scripts I've written, including a Q&A session with the Enterprise Architect of the Microsoft Partner for Business Central solutions. I was like wtf!
I've also gotten direct and indirect comments that my work was being used with other customers (which was fine) and really gave me a confidence boost. So much so that I decided to apply for a job as an integrations developer for a local company.

Here comes the FU money part: I basically wrote my coverletter like "I make programs with powershell to integrate API's, here's my Github and let me know if you can use me."
Next day I see 7 clones (0 up until then) and the day after that I get an invite for a talk with their HR.
In the call I basically state I'm willing to work for them but that I need regular time off for my youngest son (down's syndrome with lots of care appointments) and that I use specific hardware because I'm sensitive to overstim (e-ink display, ANC headphones). So far so good, I'm on to the 2nd of 3 rounds 😗

Fast forward a bit and I've got 2 2nd round interviews lined up and a very concerned manager trying hard to keep me (still no actual offer though). I told my manager I'd seriously consider staying but it also depend on the other offers (mainly need flexible hours for DS's care appointments which is almost weekly).

I had a very open talk with my manager this monday. I really didn't give a fig about letting him know where I was applying and why. He countered by painting a picture where the department is going. Downside is that his position is interim and ends on juli 1st and won't be extended (so, we'll be without a manager for a while probably).
I'm not against staying and if manager's offer is what he laid on the table I'm going to get some distance from a very toxic colleague. It would also create some distance between me and my sysadmin buddies for a subset of colleagues I've only talked with around the coffee table and not as much in actual work relations. I'm still a bit hesitant but I've got the luxury of choice 😜

Forward a bit more and they are working on the papers for an internal job-change starting jan 1st. That means the payscale is going up another 2 notches (3 in oktober 2021).
Why jan 1st? Because my current project goes live in oktober and they don't have a snowball's chance to replace me. This also gives my team lead time to look for a replacement.

And the 2 I used as leverage didn't pan out so if they hadn't done anything they'd have caused themselves a lot less stress 😂 Does that mean I stop interviews? Nah but I'm willing to see where it goes before I start looking around in earnest again.

That said, I'm not too sad that the others didn't pan out. I'd have to change my time-off plans so I don't have to do that anymore. 5 weeks PTO here I come 🦥

[Siebrie]

Not really 'epic', but something I was comfortable asking because I have enough money in the bank: parental leave (I'm in Belgium). I have 3 months left of parental leave for my youngest daughter, who turns 12 this Saturday. Starting today (the last possible day, just before she turns 12), I will spread the leave out and work 1/5 less for 15 months, divided over the whole workweek: I'll work 9-4 Mo, Tu, Th, Fr, and 9-12 We. It will of course cut my pay and benefits by 1/5, too, but that's fine. We will manage nicely.

It may even be benificial, because I have more time to organise the family, our home, hobbies, trips, cooking, kitchen gardening, etc.

Well, that didn't quite go as planned.... It turned out that I had been misinformed over the phone by the government organisation. They have apologised, and will train the new employees again, and then they denied my application for parental leave. I will discuss working less hours this afternoon with my boss. Hoping to still be able to leave at 4 every day, beating the rush hour.

[LennStar]

No that sounds fishy. Has nobody else tried that before? :D

[rantk81]

I posted a while back about my employer forcing employees back into the office for a few days per week.  It seems like a lot of companies have been doing this lately.

Well, in my case, I told my boss that I'd leave my job and retire, if they tried to force me to go to an office for no reason.

Guess what?  I received one of the "rare" exemptions granted from HR, from the new policy.

:D

Having FU-Money (or FIRE-able Money) is so nice.

[Sandi_k]

Well done - that is *exactly* how you use FU money to its best advantage.

I posted a while back about my employer forcing employees back into the office for a few days per week.  It seems like a lot of companies have been doing this lately.

Well, in my case, I told my boss that I'd leave my job and retire, if they tried to force me to go to an office for no reason.

Guess what?  I received one of the "rare" exemptions granted from HR, from the new policy.

:D

Having FU-Money (or FIRE-able Money) is so nice.

[Turtle]

This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.

Backstory:  Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition.  That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked.  Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.

He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically.   So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.

At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away.  All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.

Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out.  He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in.  This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level.  Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.

Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is.  In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still.  This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses.  All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know.  What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.

Update to this one.  Eldest nephew has given notice and is starting back to college this month.  No word yet on the reaction he got when he turned in said notice.

[RetiredAt63]

This past weekend I learned of a potentially Epic FU story brewing within my extended family.

Backstory:  Eldest nephew got his Associates Degree in May 2020 and decided not to transfer to a 4 year school right away because he didn't want to be taking online courses while paying on campus level tuition.  That summer he was promoted to entry level management at the big box store where he worked.  Still lived at home, low expenses, saved a bunch of money so he'd be able to pay cash whenever he went back for his degree.

He starts looking around his company and realizes that there are opportunities to move up the ladder if he's willing to move geographically.   So he applies for and receives a promotion to go to a store near where his other grandparents live, stays with them for a while, and then gets another promotion in that geographic area.

At that point, he decides he's fine with moving around if that gets him up the ladder, and he takes another promotion that puts him in a big city almost a day's drive away.  All is going great, he can put in for another promotion after he's been there a year, and he's eligible to start training for the next level about 9 months after the transfer.

Except there's a manager in his chain who was replaced about 4-5 months ago, and the new guy has a reputation for never letting anyone transfer out.  He knows my nephew makes his store look good and he wants to keep his claws in.  This guy is blocking my nephew from starting training for the next level.  Other stores are actively recruiting my nephew to transfer to them for promotions, but without an overrule from corporate, he won't be allowed to do that.

Nephew is a young guy with no kids, no mortgage, no local family where he currently is.  In fact, he's even young enough to go back on his parent's health insurance still.  This company doesn't even have any golden handcuffs besides annual bonuses.  All that the idiot upper management guy should already have access to know.  What he may not know on top of that is that nephew has a much bigger emergency fund than people twice his age and this may be the push he needs to go back to being a college student and finish his Bachelors degree.

Update to this one.  Eldest nephew has given notice and is starting back to college this month.  No word yet on the reaction he got when he turned in said notice.

That is a story worthy of "Not Always Right".   ;-)

[Dee_the_third]

This isn’t particularly epic, but my mother in law (who earns a relatively modest government salary along with my FIL, but is immigrant-frugal and quite level headed) has been wanting to retire for a while. She’s been staying because she doesn’t want to screw her team over (she is one of the few competent people on a team of boneheads) and she gets a nice bump in pension if she stays another two years. Anyways recently her department head implemented a rule about vacation- you can only take two weeks at a time without special approval that needs to go up the food chain. She doesn’t really take vacations (again, immigrant frugal) but was going to take a month to come help us out after I give birth this fall. We were on the phone discussing logistics and she mentioned that she might need to do a little remote work if her supervisor doesn’t approve the month, but after a moment she said “Well, if he doesn’t approve it, I’ll probably just retire”

Good for her. She’s very conflict-averse as a rule and I feel particularly honored that she would take a stand over something that’s really for my benefit. I got some good in-laws!

[RetiredAt63]

This isn’t particularly epic, but my mother in law (who earns a relatively modest government salary along with my FIL, but is immigrant-frugal and quite level headed) has been wanting to retire for a while. She’s been staying because she doesn’t want to screw her team over (she is one of the few competent people on a team of boneheads) and she gets a nice bump in pension if she stays another two years. Anyways recently her department head implemented a rule about vacation- you can only take two weeks at a time without special approval that needs to go up the food chain. She doesn’t really take vacations (again, immigrant frugal) but was going to take a month to come help us out after I give birth this fall. We were on the phone discussing logistics and she mentioned that she might need to do a little remote work if her supervisor doesn’t approve the month, but after a moment she said “Well, if he doesn’t approve it, I’ll probably just retire”

Good for her. She’s very conflict-averse as a rule and I feel particularly honored that she would take a stand over something that’s really for my benefit. I got some good in-laws!

You have a great MIL!

If this trend keeps up we can start a thread called "Stupid managers I have known/stupid shit managers did".  We probably could anyway.

[alcon835]

This isn’t particularly epic, but my mother in law (who earns a relatively modest government salary along with my FIL, but is immigrant-frugal and quite level headed) has been wanting to retire for a while. She’s been staying because she doesn’t want to screw her team over (she is one of the few competent people on a team of boneheads) and she gets a nice bump in pension if she stays another two years. Anyways recently her department head implemented a rule about vacation- you can only take two weeks at a time without special approval that needs to go up the food chain. She doesn’t really take vacations (again, immigrant frugal) but was going to take a month to come help us out after I give birth this fall. We were on the phone discussing logistics and she mentioned that she might need to do a little remote work if her supervisor doesn’t approve the month, but after a moment she said “Well, if he doesn’t approve it, I’ll probably just retire”

Good for her. She’s very conflict-averse as a rule and I feel particularly honored that she would take a stand over something that’s really for my benefit. I got some good in-laws!

This is 100% an FU story!! Here's to someone using their funds to do what's right for them :D

[Must_ache]

When, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?

How would we even know if it created lasting change if we are exiting?  Maybe it would make a big difference, or no difference at all.

[SwordGuy]

When, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?

How would we even know if it created lasting change if we are exiting?  Maybe it would make a big difference, or no difference at all.

I chose to give a pre-exit interview with both my client and my employer before my supervisor fired me in 30 days. 

I told my client I was going to be fired in 30 days, so we needed to take steps to make sure they knew what the status of my projects was.  They were surprised because they liked my work and me.

I told my employer what was going on and that I was looking for a new job because I was old enough to know that this kind of situation has a momentum of its own.  But they needed to know because otherwise they would be losing yet another good person (I was #3) to the same supervisor.  Needless to say, they were surprised.

I got a new job at the same client, down the hall, for more money, more vacation days, and more interesting work.

Six months later my old colleagues at work made a special trip down the hall to tell me security had escorted my old supervisor off the premises.

I made a situation that people wanted to ignore very visible and clear, and once they started paying attention, they realized he was toxic and had to to.

It was a good day. :)

[jeninco]

When, in the history of human existence, has an exit interview created lasting change?

How would we even know if it created lasting change if we are exiting?  Maybe it would make a big difference, or no difference at all.

I chose to give a pre-exit interview with both my client and my employer before my supervisor fired me in 30 days. 

I told my client I was going to be fired in 30 days, so we needed to take steps to make sure they knew what the status of my projects was.  They were surprised because they liked my work and me.

I told my employer what was going on and that I was looking for a new job because I was old enough to know that this kind of situation has a momentum of its own.  But they needed to know because otherwise they would be losing yet another good person (I was #3) to the same supervisor.  Needless to say, they were surprised.

I got a new job at the same client, down the hall, for more money, more vacation days, and more interesting work.

Six months later my old colleagues at work made a special trip down the hall to tell me security had escorted my old supervisor off the premises.

I made a situation that people wanted to ignore very visible and clear, and once they started paying attention, they realized he was toxic and had to to.

It was a good day. :)

In absolute seriousness, great job! Way to make things better for those left behind!

[LennStar]

@SwordGuy *Sending you a big cake through da intanetz*

[fuzzy math]

Well it happened yesterday, I quit! Gave 3 weeks notice so my last day is Dec 22. Now I just have to survive any weird attempts to sabotage or force me out the door.

Contracting company guy never showed up Weds, he texted one of us and let us know that his agreement with the hospital is still not finalized and therefore he was asked not to come until it was final. He did drop the bomb that if certain conditions weren't met by the hospital that he would back out of the contract.

Everything came to a head Weds night when I received a call from a physician friend warning me that my older befuddled coworker had had a patient care related accident and was loudly cursing and screaming my name telling everyone that it was my fault. I had been home for hours and had only tangentially touched the item he was using, others had touched it afterwards and he had 4 hours with this particular item to orient himself to it and prepare to use it on a patient. I'm being vague obviously due to the nature of my job and not wanting to get sued. But needless to say it is NOT my fault. It became very clear that this coworker has some hatred towards me and was trying to do the only thing he could think of to keep his license and his job. I spent the night in abject terror of what I was going to arrive to at work on Thurs and what attempts to sabotage me this coworker might employ in the future.

Was approached by a chief physician asking if we had the equipment needed to safely provide patient care on Thurs at the beginning of my shift. I let him know about the shortages we had, it devolved into an argument where he accused my team of trying to ration or refuse patient care based on not having supplies. I told him we were completely out of safety items needed to do our jobs properly. He asked me if it was comfort or safety keeping us from doing things. I stated that I was clinically able to do anything, but whether it was wise or not was another matter. I then asked him if that patient care related accident from the previous night was safety or comfort. I told him that my team hadn't felt support from our bosses in a long time, but that we had always leaned on him for back up and support but that this was the first time I felt I no longer had support from him.

Made the split decision that I no longer shared any values with this organization and that I was at the risk of being sabotaged in the future. Decided I did not want to work at the end of the month when my accident prone coworker and I would be the only 2 people on the schedule. Walked to my office, called my husband and told him today was the day. He agreed. I called my other (reasonable coworker who is also going to quit), told him it was the day and coordinated dates with him because I would be dumping Christmas coverage on him if I quit. Then I wrote a 2 sentence email to my boss and bosses boss. Walked back to my work area and proceeded to do my job.

At some point the chief physician unknowingly walked into a meeting with the 2 level bosses and my (reasonable quitting) coworker. They were trying to discuss the void that I was creating by leaving and what to do about all of the supply issues I've been singlehandedly attempting to fix. Physician found out then and there "what??? fuzzy_math just quit??"  LOL. He knows exactly what led to my decision.

Needless to say he was a bit quiet when he returned to the area where we work. Bosses, this physician and others called a mandatory meeting with contracting company (who still hasn't signed an agreement) to try to figure out what to do about the loss of a person on a 3 member team. I did go speak to my immediate boss and let her know the reasons I was leaving. I said it was no longer a safe place to work and that I couldn't in good conscience stay as long as I'd intended to, but that I always would have quit in January. She let me know that she has told contracting company that they will need to investigate the problem coworker. I cannot imagine that company will sign the agreement at this point. Company will not have the staff and it would be his immediate job to figure out whether to fire the troublesome coworker after my reasonable coworker quits. Reasonable coworker has said he has the goal of getting to Dec 31 but he may quit sooner.

So I jumped the gun a bit, I'm not going to be drawing a paycheck for January, but everyone there knows I have my principles and I will not tolerate abuse or providing unsafe patient care. I consider it a win. Accident prone coworker doesn't know I've quit yet but he will find out one way or another today. I'm hoping to avoid fireworks there.

A happy follow up -

-My immediate manager, and the high level administrator above her have both been fired.
-Neither of my former coworkers go to that hospital any more, they fulfill the contract at a different hospital but are still employed by the old hospital. I think the hospital is afraid of being sued and is just waiting to see what happens. Also the administrator who signed all the contracts is gone, so someone new has to sort through the mess left behind.
-The contracting group hired to fill the void at the main hospital is a hot mess and everyone hates the only locums guy who stays frequently. I hear he's miserable and has threatened to leave multiple times.

and the best part...


I LOVE MY NEW JOB and it turns out I don't hate my profession as a whole, I just couldn't continue on with my profession at the old location. We love our new location (close to where my children were born) and we see family all the time. Life is good!

[BicycleB]

Well it happened yesterday, I quit! Gave 3 weeks notice so my last day is Dec 22. Now I just have to survive any weird attempts to sabotage or force me out the door.

Contracting company guy never showed up Weds, he texted one of us and let us know that his agreement with the hospital is still not finalized and therefore he was asked not to come until it was final. He did drop the bomb that if certain conditions weren't met by the hospital that he would back out of the contract.

Everything came to a head Weds night when I received a call from a physician friend warning me that my older befuddled coworker had had a patient care related accident and was loudly cursing and screaming my name telling everyone that it was my fault. I had been home for hours and had only tangentially touched the item he was using, others had touched it afterwards and he had 4 hours with this particular item to orient himself to it and prepare to use it on a patient. I'm being vague obviously due to the nature of my job and not wanting to get sued. But needless to say it is NOT my fault. It became very clear that this coworker has some hatred towards me and was trying to do the only thing he could think of to keep his license and his job. I spent the night in abject terror of what I was going to arrive to at work on Thurs and what attempts to sabotage me this coworker might employ in the future.

Was approached by a chief physician asking if we had the equipment needed to safely provide patient care on Thurs at the beginning of my shift. I let him know about the shortages we had, it devolved into an argument where he accused my team of trying to ration or refuse patient care based on not having supplies. I told him we were completely out of safety items needed to do our jobs properly. He asked me if it was comfort or safety keeping us from doing things. I stated that I was clinically able to do anything, but whether it was wise or not was another matter. I then asked him if that patient care related accident from the previous night was safety or comfort. I told him that my team hadn't felt support from our bosses in a long time, but that we had always leaned on him for back up and support but that this was the first time I felt I no longer had support from him.

Made the split decision that I no longer shared any values with this organization and that I was at the risk of being sabotaged in the future. Decided I did not want to work at the end of the month when my accident prone coworker and I would be the only 2 people on the schedule. Walked to my office, called my husband and told him today was the day. He agreed. I called my other (reasonable coworker who is also going to quit), told him it was the day and coordinated dates with him because I would be dumping Christmas coverage on him if I quit. Then I wrote a 2 sentence email to my boss and bosses boss. Walked back to my work area and proceeded to do my job.

At some point the chief physician unknowingly walked into a meeting with the 2 level bosses and my (reasonable quitting) coworker. They were trying to discuss the void that I was creating by leaving and what to do about all of the supply issues I've been singlehandedly attempting to fix. Physician found out then and there "what??? fuzzy_math just quit??"  LOL. He knows exactly what led to my decision.

Needless to say he was a bit quiet when he returned to the area where we work. Bosses, this physician and others called a mandatory meeting with contracting company (who still hasn't signed an agreement) to try to figure out what to do about the loss of a person on a 3 member team. I did go speak to my immediate boss and let her know the reasons I was leaving. I said it was no longer a safe place to work and that I couldn't in good conscience stay as long as I'd intended to, but that I always would have quit in January. She let me know that she has told contracting company that they will need to investigate the problem coworker. I cannot imagine that company will sign the agreement at this point. Company will not have the staff and it would be his immediate job to figure out whether to fire the troublesome coworker after my reasonable coworker quits. Reasonable coworker has said he has the goal of getting to Dec 31 but he may quit sooner.

So I jumped the gun a bit, I'm not going to be drawing a paycheck for January, but everyone there knows I have my principles and I will not tolerate abuse or providing unsafe patient care. I consider it a win. Accident prone coworker doesn't know I've quit yet but he will find out one way or another today. I'm hoping to avoid fireworks there.

A happy follow up -

-My immediate manager, and the high level administrator above her have both been fired.
-Neither of my former coworkers go to that hospital any more, they fulfill the contract at a different hospital but are still employed by the old hospital. I think the hospital is afraid of being sued and is just waiting to see what happens. Also the administrator who signed all the contracts is gone, so someone new has to sort through the mess left behind.
-The contracting group hired to fill the void at the main hospital is a hot mess and everyone hates the only locums guy who stays frequently. I hear he's miserable and has threatened to leave multiple times.

and the best part...


I LOVE MY NEW JOB and it turns out I don't hate my profession as a whole, I just couldn't continue on with my profession at the old location. We love our new location (close to where my children were born) and we see family all the time. Life is good!

Great update, @fuzzy math!!

[okits]

A happy follow up -

-My immediate manager, and the high level administrator above her have both been fired.
-Neither of my former coworkers go to that hospital any more, they fulfill the contract at a different hospital but are still employed by the old hospital. I think the hospital is afraid of being sued and is just waiting to see what happens. Also the administrator who signed all the contracts is gone, so someone new has to sort through the mess left behind.
-The contracting group hired to fill the void at the main hospital is a hot mess and everyone hates the only locums guy who stays frequently. I hear he's miserable and has threatened to leave multiple times.

and the best part...


I LOVE MY NEW JOB and it turns out I don't hate my profession as a whole, I just couldn't continue on with my profession at the old location. We love our new location (close to where my children were born) and we see family all the time. Life is good!

I'm so thrilled to hear it, @fuzzy math !  Your old job situation sounded so stressful.  I'm glad your new job is great and I hope you've recovered a bit from the circus you left.