Author Topic: Epic FU money stories  (Read 1926073 times)

alcon835

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3850 on: June 09, 2021, 05:38:03 AM »
I hate to generalise, but it seems that many HR Departments baulk at approving leave that they deem 'excessive' regardless of Company policies.
In 2005 I was able to book a whole year off work using my accrued Annual Leave and Long Service Leave here in Australia. My Manager approved it all and it was not going to cause any staff shortges etc, but HR and senior management still chased me for 'more information' simply because I was getting something they didn't think I deserved😂

Again, just insanity. There are so many false presuppositions there, it boggles the mind.

Psychstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1221
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3851 on: June 09, 2021, 07:28:24 AM »
HR had no idea how to handle it and were hemming and hawing over if it were possible or not.

Uh, yes of course it's possible. The question isn't "can we do this" it's more "learn to do your job and put it into the system".

It consistently shocks me that employers think they have some say over us. Everything is negotiable. Nothing is set in stone. HR's "policy" is just that, a policy which can be altered, adjusted, and bent to meet the current person's needs.

And yet, HR departments always seem blindsided by this.

HR is the most poorly named department in the world because they are not resourceful and barely human.

NumberJohnny5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3852 on: June 09, 2021, 10:32:49 AM »
I hate to generalise, but it seems that many HR Departments baulk at approving leave that they deem 'excessive' regardless of Company policies.
In 2005 I was able to book a whole year off work using my accrued Annual Leave and Long Service Leave here in Australia. My Manager approved it all and it was not going to cause any staff shortges etc, but HR and senior management still chased me for 'more information' simply because I was getting something they didn't think I deserved😂

#1. The idea of taking an entire year off and still having a job to go back to is unheard of here in the States. We lived in Australia when our third was born, and there was absolutely no pushback when my wife wanted to take the whole year off. In fact, it was fairly common to take a second year off. Just a bit of nice culture shock.

#2. When our first was born, we lived in Tennessee, which (surprise) allowed her to take up to FOUR MONTHS off for the birth of a child. FMLA gives 12 weeks, which seemed to be the most that anyone actually took. No one actually tried to take off more than that (plenty took less, obviously). My wife just said she wanted the full four months that Tennessee said she could have, and they eventually relented and let her have 16 weeks. For those who understand that most months are longer than four weeks, you can already tell that she was shortchanged. They also said it had to start from the date that she delivered. If the baby came a week early, then leave started a week early. She scheduled vacation time the week before he was due, but then she delivered that week so...yeah, that's when leave started. They made sure she knew that they knew, because they sent some flowers or something, I forget what it was (sounds like a nice enough gesture, except she didn't phone anyone to say she delivered...meaning someone was checking hospital records and at the very least saw her name pop up as a patient; it's possible they didn't actually go into the records, so we didn't turn it into a big deal...I should note that she worked as a nurse and delivered at a hospital in the same system, but still a different hospital in a different city). They were just so very very adamant that she didn't get a single day more than they thought was absolutely necessary to give. And no...she didn't deliver during a very busy time when they were short staffed. We didn't have FU money at the time, but still gave more pushback than they were used to.

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2974
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3853 on: June 09, 2021, 09:30:19 PM »
I think the biggest factor sometimes in not wanting to grant long leaves or atypical work hours is jealousy, plain and simple.

I had a job many years ago where I negotiated a four 8-hr-day work week schedule before accepting the position. I felt it was important to have the time with my young children, and the pay wasn't super high, so 32 hours seemed reasonable based upon the salary level the could give me compared to previous positions I had held.

There was a women in an HR function who made it very clear over and over that she resented my 4 day schedule. She told me straight up within the first month that she didn't think the boss should have allowed it. But, bottom line, she was just jealous, because she could have had the same schedule if she just asked for it, but she was not willing/able to take the pay cut that an 80% work week would have entailed. So petty. So inflexible. Ugh. Lol, I should have remarked to her off-hand in an unrelated conversation that petty inflexibility has been shown to be a sign of low intelligence. I need to work on my aristocratic snark.

NorthernIkigai

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 43
  • Connoisseur of Leisure
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3854 on: June 10, 2021, 02:44:54 AM »
I hate to generalise, but it seems that many HR Departments baulk at approving leave that they deem 'excessive' regardless of Company policies.
In 2005 I was able to book a whole year off work using my accrued Annual Leave and Long Service Leave here in Australia. My Manager approved it all and it was not going to cause any staff shortges etc, but HR and senior management still chased me for 'more information' simply because I was getting something they didn't think I deserved😂

I wonder what kind of "more information" anyone is looking for in these kinds of situations. What did they really expect you to say, and why did they think it was any of their business? (Assuming you didn't work with anything super secret and they were afraid you'd take your intel and set up a competing business or start working for a competitor... In which case you could also have just quit and done that anyway.)

I'm planning to take a year off at some point (but from autumn to autumn rather than a calendar year, partly for tax reasons), and I am certainly thinking about what I will say to people when they ask out of curiosity or just in the form of small talk. But I don't expect anyone to chase me specifically to get more information. Time off is just time off.

RyanAtTanagra

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1225
  • Location: SF Bay, CA
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3855 on: June 10, 2021, 10:44:52 AM »
I think the biggest factor sometimes in not wanting to grant long leaves or atypical work hours is jealousy, plain and simple.

I had a job many years ago where I negotiated a four 8-hr-day work week schedule before accepting the position. I felt it was important to have the time with my young children, and the pay wasn't super high, so 32 hours seemed reasonable based upon the salary level the could give me compared to previous positions I had held.

There was a women in an HR function who made it very clear over and over that she resented my 4 day schedule. She told me straight up within the first month that she didn't think the boss should have allowed it. But, bottom line, she was just jealous, because she could have had the same schedule if she just asked for it, but she was not willing/able to take the pay cut that an 80% work week would have entailed. So petty. So inflexible. Ugh. Lol, I should have remarked to her off-hand in an unrelated conversation that petty inflexibility has been shown to be a sign of low intelligence. I need to work on my aristocratic snark.

It's a very dumb thing to get angry at.  It's not even making an exception for you.  Anyone could do it if they tried.  People just can't afford/don't want to take a 20% pay cut.  But then they get jealous of not having a 20% shorter work week?  I was expecting some snark when I went to 32hrs at work, and prepared what to say.  "I've been living on a sailboat for the past 5 years to cut expenses and save money.  You could do it too if you want to be able to take a 20% pay cut".  But no one really said anything.  Everyone at work is too reasonable.  Very boring.

Wolfpack Mustachian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3856 on: June 10, 2021, 10:58:33 AM »
I think the biggest factor sometimes in not wanting to grant long leaves or atypical work hours is jealousy, plain and simple.

I had a job many years ago where I negotiated a four 8-hr-day work week schedule before accepting the position. I felt it was important to have the time with my young children, and the pay wasn't super high, so 32 hours seemed reasonable based upon the salary level the could give me compared to previous positions I had held.

There was a women in an HR function who made it very clear over and over that she resented my 4 day schedule. She told me straight up within the first month that she didn't think the boss should have allowed it. But, bottom line, she was just jealous, because she could have had the same schedule if she just asked for it, but she was not willing/able to take the pay cut that an 80% work week would have entailed. So petty. So inflexible. Ugh. Lol, I should have remarked to her off-hand in an unrelated conversation that petty inflexibility has been shown to be a sign of low intelligence. I need to work on my aristocratic snark.

It's a very dumb thing to get angry at.  It's not even making an exception for you.  Anyone could do it if they tried.  People just can't afford/don't want to take a 20% pay cut.  But then they get jealous of not having a 20% shorter work week?  I was expecting some snark when I went to 32hrs at work, and prepared what to say.  "I've been living on a sailboat for the past 5 years to cut expenses and save money.  You could do it too if you want to be able to take a 20% pay cut".  But no one really said anything.  Everyone at work is too reasonable.  Very boring.

Boring can be really nice, though....

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9015
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3857 on: June 10, 2021, 03:11:59 PM »
I think the biggest factor sometimes in not wanting to grant long leaves or atypical work hours is jealousy, plain and simple.

I had a job many years ago where I negotiated a four 8-hr-day work week schedule before accepting the position. I felt it was important to have the time with my young children, and the pay wasn't super high, so 32 hours seemed reasonable based upon the salary level the could give me compared to previous positions I had held.

There was a women in an HR function who made it very clear over and over that she resented my 4 day schedule. She told me straight up within the first month that she didn't think the boss should have allowed it. But, bottom line, she was just jealous, because she could have had the same schedule if she just asked for it, but she was not willing/able to take the pay cut that an 80% work week would have entailed. So petty. So inflexible. Ugh. Lol, I should have remarked to her off-hand in an unrelated conversation that petty inflexibility has been shown to be a sign of low intelligence. I need to work on my aristocratic snark.

It's a very dumb thing to get angry at.  It's not even making an exception for you.  Anyone could do it if they tried.  People just can't afford/don't want to take a 20% pay cut.  But then they get jealous of not having a 20% shorter work week?  I was expecting some snark when I went to 32hrs at work, and prepared what to say.  "I've been living on a sailboat for the past 5 years to cut expenses and save money.  You could do it too if you want to be able to take a 20% pay cut".  But no one really said anything.  Everyone at work is too reasonable.  Very boring.
Yup.  I've done this twice, when I had my kids.  With company #1 and kid #1 they paid me hourly when I made the switch to 75%, though I was an exempt employee.  It was great, because if I had a long week and worked 35 hr, I got paid for exactly what I worked.

With company #2, they continued to keep me exempt, so I opted for 80% instead of 75% because I just KNEW 30 hr was not going to happen, it would be 32 most weeks. 

Well, fast forward years later, and a coworker wants to ease into retirement, so she asks me how the whole thing worked as far as pay and benefits go (basically, you have to be 75% to keep bennies).  So, they didn't LOVE that (she wanted 25 h a week, not 30), but did 30 h anyway.

Another coworker was BITTER.  He complained, multiple times, about her only working 30h a week and the rest of us work 50-60.  I just said "you can make the same switch for lower pay.  And by the way, she is still exempt, so her pay is 75% even if she works 40 h a week."  He was also nearing retirement (about 5 yr older than her).

okonumiyaki

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 181
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3858 on: June 11, 2021, 12:09:14 AM »
Re long holidays - I worked for a firm that insisted that you had to take a 'long leave' minimum two weeks every year.

It was for anti-fraud purposes - they had been burned by a manager whose corruption was only discovered when he had gone to hospital for a long while - until then he had been a hero, never taking any time off (apart from a few days here and there) and so had always been able to cover his tracks...

MrMoogle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1135
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3859 on: June 11, 2021, 10:48:17 AM »
My company is pretty awesome with that kind of stuff.  They will hold your job for you for the first 364 days for maternity leave (if that's what you request).  I'm not sure about the pay as I've never looked it up.  I know they offer paternity leave too, but I don't have the details of that.  A woman I worked with had a baby, took the year off.  Came back for a year and had another baby.  Repeated once more and she became a stay at home mom.  They also allowed her to come back part time after the first baby.  They didn't bat an eye when I requested part time. 

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4543
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3860 on: June 11, 2021, 01:59:13 PM »
I can't remember if I told this story before, but worked in the medical center of a well known university. I was a three year post doc, with rules with 40 days a month (Al/sl). I submitted leave sheets the entire time and used about a 2 weeks a year. . When I became a research associate in the same lab, about a year later became pregnant. I lost all my sl and Al changing my position. The hospital had 0 paid weeks for family or parental leave.  While I was allowed to take time off without losing my job, definitely got pushback from my boss, with my paychecks about 30-50% my normal paycheck during my leave time. With my 2nd child, I was now working for the government. Someone in my department told me I should put myself on the donate leave list, for my leave after giving birth. When I went to submit the paperwork, HR told me that wasn't allowed, as childbirth was not a recognized medical condition. So I'm like, ok and didn't think anything of it. I was able to take advance leave in this case, long since paid back. Since then I had seen a number of requests to donate annual leave time to staff who were expecting (you can only donate your annual leave, not your sick leave for this), so way interpreted, not consistent. Suffice to say, I am thankful both my pregnancies and births were relatively uneventful as parental leave policies in the us kind of suck and not make it easy to be a working mom. Hopefully they have gotten better.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 02:13:07 PM by partgypsy »

Model96

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 138
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3861 on: June 12, 2021, 06:46:40 AM »
I hate to generalise, but it seems that many HR Departments baulk at approving leave that they deem 'excessive' regardless of Company policies.
In 2005 I was able to book a whole year off work using my accrued Annual Leave and Long Service Leave here in Australia. My Manager approved it all and it was not going to cause any staff shortges etc, but HR and senior management still chased me for 'more information' simply because I was getting something they didn't think I deserved😂

I wonder what kind of "more information" anyone is looking for in these kinds of situations. What did they really expect you to say, and why did they think it was any of their business? (Assuming you didn't work with anything super secret and they were afraid you'd take your intel and set up a competing business or start working for a competitor... In which case you could also have just quit and done that anyway.)

I'm planning to take a year off at some point (but from autumn to autumn rather than a calendar year, partly for tax reasons), and I am certainly thinking about what I will say to people when they ask out of curiosity or just in the form of small talk. But I don't expect anyone to chase me specifically to get more information. Time off is just time off.

It was easy to ignore them, none of them tried to speak face to face with me.
I just told everyone I was on annual leave, only my wife and kids knew for how long!

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6723
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3862 on: June 16, 2021, 10:30:18 AM »
Re long holidays - I worked for a firm that insisted that you had to take a 'long leave' minimum two weeks every year.

It was for anti-fraud purposes - they had been burned by a manager whose corruption was only discovered when he had gone to hospital for a long while - until then he had been a hero, never taking any time off (apart from a few days here and there) and so had always been able to cover his tracks...

I had to do that when I worked for a bank (one or two weeks' consecutive time off was mandatory).

Meanwhile at my current job I can't get more than a long weekend until at least August....with 4.5 weeks PTO still yet to use for this year.  :(

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2468
  • Location: Germany
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3863 on: June 17, 2021, 10:58:01 AM »
Again I am aghast at how awful it is here in goddamn Socialism with our 20 minimum days holidays, not counting sick days and 9+3 month of parental leave.

btw. Even while being pregnant is not a medical condition for sick leave etc., having a several pound parasite inside you is.

gooki

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2551
  • Location: NZ
    • My FIRE journal
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3864 on: June 18, 2021, 01:55:44 AM »
My wife exercised our fuck you money to perfection this week.

She applied for a senior business partner role at her current employer.  It's a promotion in paper and dollars only as she's been doing the senior role for sometime already just without the recognition/reward. My wife's well respected by the managers she coaches, a great mentor to the younger staff in their team, and trusted by her team mates

She went through the whole interview process with her reporting manager (not one of the ones she coaches) and a couple of other staff, waited a couple of weeks, and was then told nope, no senior position for you, were hiring someone external. So she asked for reasons, and got vague stuff like the other candidate has worked with unions, when in my wife's interview her manager skipped over that question entirely. To rub salt in the wound her manager goes maybe you'd be interested in this job at xyz company. And my wife's like. Hell no. I applied for the job I'm already doing, and did you know that other job at company xyz is open because the last person in that role killed themself.

So my wife's angry as fuck but stays professional, and wraps that meeting up, and schedules one for a couple of days time when she's cooled down.

So next meeting, my wife's tries to get some real answers about why she wasn't hired. Brings up that they skipped they union question in her interview and her manager flips out and changes the subject to 'projects" and why my wife's name isn't on any of her managers projects (never mind that my wife just lead largest organisational change, or that other people are already leading those projects).

So my wife calmly gets up, and says something along the lines of, I can see you're not in a good space, if you're not able to have a constructive conversation with me I'll be leaving, and we can do this another time.

Her manager calms down and agrees to be constructive. It doesn't last long and my wife has to get up again and bring her manager back in line. Her manager starts apologizing because this is starting to look pretty bad. So my wife point blank asks if there's a problem with her performance. Her manager responds with no. So it becomes pretty clear through the rest of the meeting that it's personal, but her manager is to bat shit crazy to be honest and just say it.

My wife takes the next day as a mental health day, and drafts her resignation.

This Friday she handed the resignation letter to her manager. The managers response was 'oh? Do you have somewhere else to go?' and my wife cool as ice says 'no, I'm happy to go', spins round and exits the room.

So proud of my wife. Not just just because she left a place that doesn't support her, but because she was the bigger person the whole time.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 02:13:45 AM by gooki »

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2468
  • Location: Germany
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3865 on: June 18, 2021, 03:57:24 AM »
Nice!
But I would have liked the "okay, then I stop doing the work of the position I am not officially in" and see what happened then.

DeepEllumStache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3824
  • I came, I saw, I made it awkward
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3866 on: June 18, 2021, 11:43:13 AM »
My wife takes the next day as a mental health day, and drafts her resignation.

This Friday she handed the resignation letter to her manager. The managers response was 'oh? Do you have somewhere else to go?' and my wife cool as ice says 'no, I'm happy to go', spins round and exits the room.

That was gloriously epic!

okits

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11171
  • Location: Canada
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3867 on: June 18, 2021, 01:06:21 PM »
Congratulations to your badass wife (and to you, @gooki ! This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum.)

Not just just because she left a place that doesn't support her

Err, a place that was actively exploiting her and obstructing her.  She is well rid of that kind of environment, I'm happy for you both!

FIRE 20/20

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3868 on: June 19, 2021, 11:40:55 AM »
...I was a three year post doc, with rules with 40 days a month (Al/sl)...

Can you clarify this part?  I don't understand "40 days a month" or (Al/sl). 

Fru-Gal

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3869 on: July 07, 2021, 04:20:22 PM »
Because I have FU money, am trying to be more assertive.

I have valuable and unique skills that are widely recognized in the company. At the same time, I have no authority or assistance. I have a ton of autonomy. Problem is a Mark Twain-like thing that happens where my successes become attractive to poachers.

How to deal with this? Like, the one thing that keeps me going is my autonomy with my projects (which are collaborative, made even more difficult because I have no titular authority so I have to be diplomatic as fuck).

New guy just got hired days ago. Boss says, "Take your great ideas, and go work with him." Collaboratively, but with an implication that maybe I'll soon work *for* this guy.

I know it happens to men too, but as a woman in a male-dominated field, am so tired of being put under someone new -- who may or may not last and is often an idiot. (Yes of course I go in with an open mind, not a bad attitude, etc. etc.)

Asked my boss for a team to report to me and funding to grow the project. Response: "Sure! Talk to that new guy [whom I've never even met, not even in my department, but ostensibly similar skills to mine] and come up with a plan." I mean WTF????

Are my decades of experience and well documented years of results (highest in company) really meaningless in comparison to some "new guy" with a fancy title?

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6679
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3870 on: July 07, 2021, 04:39:25 PM »
Yes.

Can you go look for a new job with more pay and status?

swashbucklinstache

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
  • Location: Midwest U.S.
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3871 on: July 07, 2021, 05:00:20 PM »
I am starting to tire of repeatedly being put in a position where the truth is "no one knows, because my great-grandboss can't answer a simple question in 10 months" to a politically connected internal client of his, who already knows that's the answer but benefits from me being the one to say it out loud. I think I'll let my boss know that tomorrow and re-verbalize that I've bit my tongue for the last time on the matter and he should engage in serious CYA now if he hasn't already.

It's been almost two weeks! Anything new? Maybe you're not updating the forum because you're off on a beach somewhere enjoying your FU money ;-)
Sadly I'm getting 2-3 'requests' a day and didn't want to just spam the thread everyday!

The latest reading between the lines is that I think the great-grandboss is going to declare my boss accountable for these roles to not deal with it. For me that means that since it will then be a direct line up from me, as opposed to now where my "uncle" is accountable, it is more of a "reassignment" than a "we're interested in you taking on this stretch role if you're interested" deal. That should mean it is a little harder to say FU to my immediate boss than the faceless C suit, and doubly so because I'm senior enough in a fluid enough industry that this isn't really an inappropriate/uncommon sort of thing. (Consulting job descriptions are basically "get it done, level appropriately").

I proactively nipped that in the bud with my boss and made it clear that I do not care who is accountable for the role, my questions still stand. In the meantime I continue to take on the pieces that are interesting to me and either ignore, say no to, or do the others as slowly as possible.

The bigger piece is that, unfortunately, my main project work ends 6/30. We're a billable industry where you eat what you kill and I don't yet have anything lined up. So the closer we creep to that day the closer we get to me not really being able to say no, because I'd then be saying "instead of doing this role I would prefer to instead do nothing and still get paid for it." So I'm talking with my boss this week to try to find other project opportunities. If I get defaulted into the role I will still push for $$ up front and will make it very clear that I'm unhappy with being backdoored into things if we get there. It sucks, because this is a role that could be fun (strategy and process creation) and have outsized returns (growth) if a happy and motivated employee does it and "kept the lights on" returns if they're not.

I've also spent the weekend getting my resume in shape. My industry, tech/data, is on fire right now. I could credibly apply to senior individual contributor roles at better companies, senior analytics or product manager roles at peer companies, or associate/director of analytics positions at smaller companies. I got pinged last week by a big tech recruiter for a data science position that would double my total comp. We're talking this week. I'm not competitive really and they hand out interviews like candy but you only need one to say yes...

For context, I'm at 835k which is a 2.9% WR for my current expenses (24k avg. the last 8 years). My FIRE plans are atypical though, as they're either "I have no idea, I'm only 32, let's not lock us in to < 40k a year before life events" or "spend a few years AirBnbing in city centers where housing alone takes you to 4.5% WR, plus some seed money gifted for others' retirement, so maybe 1.3-1.6mm?" I'm saving 115k a year, so it would be ideal if this company would just stay reasonable for the next 1-3 years...
Well. 6/30 came and went and I have new "other" project so status quo was humming along. BUT, unrelated, today they walked the great grandboss out (hourly billable company = immediately removed at that level). Says the plan is for his C suit boss to cover until a hire is made, which is much less than ideal since that person knows nothing about what we do as a non-tech person... Person that's been trying to get me to do their job said interim boss was going to be meeting with us and we should talk about the future of these roles so we can shape them how we want them to be a.k.a. one more avenue to try and shove the work off his plate. Pretty sure I'm going to say if you want me in this role that is an immediate 50% base pay increase, and keep interviewing in the background all the while.

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3872 on: July 07, 2021, 05:21:22 PM »
Because I have FU money, am trying to be more assertive.

I have valuable and unique skills that are widely recognized in the company. At the same time, I have no authority or assistance. I have a ton of autonomy. Problem is a Mark Twain-like thing that happens where my successes become attractive to poachers.

How to deal with this? Like, the one thing that keeps me going is my autonomy with my projects (which are collaborative, made even more difficult because I have no titular authority so I have to be diplomatic as fuck).

New guy just got hired days ago. Boss says, "Take your great ideas, and go work with him." Collaboratively, but with an implication that maybe I'll soon work *for* this guy.

I know it happens to men too, but as a woman in a male-dominated field, am so tired of being put under someone new -- who may or may not last and is often an idiot. (Yes of course I go in with an open mind, not a bad attitude, etc. etc.)

Asked my boss for a team to report to me and funding to grow the project. Response: "Sure! Talk to that new guy [whom I've never even met, not even in my department, but ostensibly similar skills to mine] and come up with a plan." I mean WTF????

Are my decades of experience and well documented years of results (highest in company) really meaningless in comparison to some "new guy" with a fancy title?

Leverage the FU money by finding another position externally.
Betcha in 24-48H when you give notice to current employer, you'll be given fancy title, more $$$, maybe a team, funding, etc. Magically appearing like a genie from an oil lamp.
At that point you decide if you want to stay or move on to the new employer.

Fru-Gal

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3873 on: July 07, 2021, 05:40:40 PM »
Quote
Yes.

LOL. Thanks for the responses. I did want to vent.

Also, sigh, you mean I have to be proactive...? 😂

zolotiyeruki

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4219
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3874 on: July 07, 2021, 08:06:16 PM »
Because I have FU money, am trying to be more assertive.

I have valuable and unique skills that are widely recognized in the company. At the same time, I have no authority or assistance. I have a ton of autonomy. Problem is a Mark Twain-like thing that happens where my successes become attractive to poachers.

How to deal with this? Like, the one thing that keeps me going is my autonomy with my projects (which are collaborative, made even more difficult because I have no titular authority so I have to be diplomatic as fuck).

New guy just got hired days ago. Boss says, "Take your great ideas, and go work with him." Collaboratively, but with an implication that maybe I'll soon work *for* this guy.

I know it happens to men too, but as a woman in a male-dominated field, am so tired of being put under someone new -- who may or may not last and is often an idiot. (Yes of course I go in with an open mind, not a bad attitude, etc. etc.)

Asked my boss for a team to report to me and funding to grow the project. Response: "Sure! Talk to that new guy [whom I've never even met, not even in my department, but ostensibly similar skills to mine] and come up with a plan." I mean WTF????

Are my decades of experience and well documented years of results (highest in company) really meaningless in comparison to some "new guy" with a fancy title?

Leverage the FU money by finding another position externally.
Betcha in 24-48H when you give notice to current employer, you'll be given fancy title, more $$$, maybe a team, funding, etc. Magically appearing like a genie from an oil lamp.
At that point you decide if you want to stay or move on to the new employer.
^^^This

LibrarIan

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 493
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3875 on: July 10, 2021, 06:23:11 AM »
I started as a developer at a megacorp nine years ago. Great job for the most part. I found this site shortly after being hired and have developed a good amount of FU money. This has led me to cut a lot of the office environment bs out of my day.

For example, when I first got hired and really needed the job, I kept my mouth shut in meetings unless I was spoken to and if the others got off topic and wasted lots of time arguing or chatting, I would just sit there and wait it out. What else could I do? But with FU money, I don't tolerate pointless meetings anymore. Recently I was in a meeting when my coding partner and I could have been working on a big project. Two people started bickering and it became clear that productivity ended and time wasting was going to be the rest of the meeting. I interrupted the project manager and the developer she was arguing with and said, "Bob and I are going to get to work. Have a nice afternoon." And we left, with Bob looking kind of stunned. Afterwards he told me that he's never seen anyone leave a meeting early. One of the people arguing reached out and apologized for their behavior and thanked me for bringing them to their senses.

FU money has also given me the ability to stick up for myself. Just yesterday, a coworker promised during our morning standup meeting that she'd have some important requirements to me ASAP. My boss agreed that this was very important and that those requirements should be prioritized so I could get the work done that day (lol). The day goes by and I busy myself with other things while waiting. Ten minutes before I log off (we're mostly still working from home at this point), the coworker presented me with what I needed and let my boss know. Instead of my boss questioning why it took my coworker the entire day to do this, leaving me no time, my boss instead thanked this coworker and told me to get started on them immediately. I told her I was finishing up something and it was the end of the day. She said this needed to be done immediately (it really doesn't, trust me). I simply said that the requirements should have been to me hours ago and that I'd start on them Monday. I logged off and haven't heard a peep.

FU money has also given the willingness to look for a permanent job working from home. The pandemic forced everyone at my job to work from home starting March 2020 and most are still doing this. Despite the great success the company has had in this work model, they suddenly decided that we "do our best work together" and that all employees will be in the physical office at least three days a week. I loooooove working from home and there isn't anything about my job that requires being at the office. The forced WFH experiment has proven that it works. The only reason they want developers back is micromanagement. I applied for permanent home work. The CIO himself has to approve it. My reasoning was honest - preference. I have already told my boss that if it's not approved I'll just find a job at any one of the abundant remote development jobs that are out there now. We'll see what happens.

It's a great feeling not to be tied down to a job.

BicycleB

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3380
  • Location: Live Music Capital of the World
  • Older than the internet, but not wiser... yet
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3876 on: July 10, 2021, 08:45:04 AM »
^Epic? Yep, works for me! :)

alcon835

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3877 on: July 10, 2021, 09:39:22 AM »
I started as a developer at a megacorp nine years ago. Great job for the most part. I found this site shortly after being hired and have developed a good amount of FU money. This has led me to cut a lot of the office environment bs out of my day.

For example, when I first got hired and really needed the job, I kept my mouth shut in meetings unless I was spoken to and if the others got off topic and wasted lots of time arguing or chatting, I would just sit there and wait it out. What else could I do? But with FU money, I don't tolerate pointless meetings anymore. Recently I was in a meeting when my coding partner and I could have been working on a big project. Two people started bickering and it became clear that productivity ended and time wasting was going to be the rest of the meeting. I interrupted the project manager and the developer she was arguing with and said, "Bob and I are going to get to work. Have a nice afternoon." And we left, with Bob looking kind of stunned. Afterwards he told me that he's never seen anyone leave a meeting early. One of the people arguing reached out and apologized for their behavior and thanked me for bringing them to their senses.

FU money has also given me the ability to stick up for myself. Just yesterday, a coworker promised during our morning standup meeting that she'd have some important requirements to me ASAP. My boss agreed that this was very important and that those requirements should be prioritized so I could get the work done that day (lol). The day goes by and I busy myself with other things while waiting. Ten minutes before I log off (we're mostly still working from home at this point), the coworker presented me with what I needed and let my boss know. Instead of my boss questioning why it took my coworker the entire day to do this, leaving me no time, my boss instead thanked this coworker and told me to get started on them immediately. I told her I was finishing up something and it was the end of the day. She said this needed to be done immediately (it really doesn't, trust me). I simply said that the requirements should have been to me hours ago and that I'd start on them Monday. I logged off and haven't heard a peep.

FU money has also given the willingness to look for a permanent job working from home. The pandemic forced everyone at my job to work from home starting March 2020 and most are still doing this. Despite the great success the company has had in this work model, they suddenly decided that we "do our best work together" and that all employees will be in the physical office at least three days a week. I loooooove working from home and there isn't anything about my job that requires being at the office. The forced WFH experiment has proven that it works. The only reason they want developers back is micromanagement. I applied for permanent home work. The CIO himself has to approve it. My reasoning was honest - preference. I have already told my boss that if it's not approved I'll just find a job at any one of the abundant remote development jobs that are out there now. We'll see what happens.

It's a great feeling not to be tied down to a job.

Glad to see FU money doing work in 2021!

FIPurpose

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1584
  • Location: WA
    • FI With Purpose
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3878 on: July 10, 2021, 02:18:22 PM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6723
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3879 on: July 10, 2021, 02:39:16 PM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway.  It's ridiculous.

Much Fishing to Do

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3880 on: July 10, 2021, 03:06:20 PM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway.  It's ridiculous.

A family member just told me he was already forced back.  and he works almost completely with people on the other coast.... I just don't get.  (I get that some bosses want to be controlling, or just a pain, but why in the world would the company think its worth paying big city downtown office building rent to do that.  I owned and ran a business for 10 years with 8 employees that didn't need to be in an office so there was no way I ever considered blowing money on rent when I knew they'd view working form home as a perk anyway (and sure made everyone a lot more flexible when for the feast and famine times)

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6723
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3881 on: July 10, 2021, 03:33:30 PM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway.  It's ridiculous.

A family member just told me he was already forced back.  and he works almost completely with people on the other coast.... I just don't get.  (I get that some bosses want to be controlling, or just a pain, but why in the world would the company think its worth paying big city downtown office building rent to do that.  I owned and ran a business for 10 years with 8 employees that didn't need to be in an office so there was no way I ever considered blowing money on rent when I knew they'd view working form home as a perk anyway (and sure made everyone a lot more flexible when for the feast and famine times)

I suspect a huge part of it is old-school managers who are clinging to the "that's the way we've always done it" mindset (with a healthy dose of "if people are in the office, then there's no chance of them doing personal things on *gasp* company time!!11).

Purely speculation on my part, though.

Aegishjalmur

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3882 on: July 10, 2021, 04:52:46 PM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway.  It's ridiculous.

A family member just told me he was already forced back.  and he works almost completely with people on the other coast.... I just don't get.  (I get that some bosses want to be controlling, or just a pain, but why in the world would the company think its worth paying big city downtown office building rent to do that.  I owned and ran a business for 10 years with 8 employees that didn't need to be in an office so there was no way I ever considered blowing money on rent when I knew they'd view working form home as a perk anyway (and sure made everyone a lot more flexible when for the feast and famine times)

I suspect a huge part of it is old-school managers who are clinging to the "that's the way we've always done it" mindset (with a healthy dose of "if people are in the office, then there's no chance of them doing personal things on *gasp* company time!!11).

Purely speculation on my part, though.



I think part of it is that and they spent big bucks on the office lease, furnishings, equipment, ect. So even though it's cheaper and more efficient to have workers work remotely, they are looking at all this other stuff they acquired and are not using and counting their pennies.  Sunk cost fallacy at its finest.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 01:49:59 PM by Aegishjalmur »

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15999
  • Age: 63
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3883 on: July 10, 2021, 06:20:42 PM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway.  It's ridiculous.

A family member just told me he was already forced back.  and he works almost completely with people on the other coast.... I just don't get.  (I get that some bosses want to be controlling, or just a pain, but why in the world would the company think its worth paying big city downtown office building rent to do that.  I owned and ran a business for 10 years with 8 employees that didn't need to be in an office so there was no way I ever considered blowing money on rent when I knew they'd view working form home as a perk anyway (and sure made everyone a lot more flexible when for the feast and famine times)

I suspect a huge part of it is old-school managers who are clinging to the "that's the way we've always done it" mindset (with a healthy dose of "if people are in the office, then there's no chance of them doing personal things on *gasp* company time!!11).

Purely speculation on my part, though.
Another possibility is that they're paying for office space they haven't been using. They don't want to let good money go to waste. Nevermind about losing employees...

desk_jockey

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3884 on: July 10, 2021, 09:55:50 PM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway.  It's ridiculous.

My suggestions to your roommate:
(a) go in for a day and take photos of the office for a work-at-home zoom background, so that people can choose to believe you're in the office; or
(b) wear a heavy mask in the office and insure any speech on the zoom calls are muffled to the point that nobody can understand, so that eventually you get told to go home to take the calls.


Uturn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3885 on: July 11, 2021, 08:53:05 AM »
I once worked for a company that did contract work for the government.  We were supporting networks in the middle East from TX. Every other week another engineer and I would swap working from home on Friday so that we could knock out tickets for a day without being interrupted. Then the company instituted a no work from home policy.  Their thinking was if you are remote, you are not as efficient. Never mind that even in the office, we were still remote to those that we supported.

So then, instead of working from home, we would fly to the DC office and work a day from there.  Since no one knew who we were, there was no interruptions.  The bosses were ok with this because we were still in a company facility.   

Alternatepriorities

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1153
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Alaska
  • Engineer, explorer, investor
    • Alternate Priorities
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3886 on: July 11, 2021, 11:27:16 AM »
I once worked for a company that did contract work for the government.  We were supporting networks in the middle East from TX. Every other week another engineer and I would swap working from home on Friday so that we could knock out tickets for a day without being interrupted. Then the company instituted a no work from home policy.  Their thinking was if you are remote, you are not as efficient. Never mind that even in the office, we were still remote to those that we supported.

So then, instead of working from home, we would fly to the DC office and work a day from there.  Since no one knew who we were, there was no interruptions.  The bosses were ok with this because we were still in a company facility.

This was more or less the policy at DW's school office before the pandemic... Alaska had a large number of students learning remotely even before the pandemic. She works with a school's correspondence program. Pre pandemic she could work in any office in the state and count the day as a contract day. Work done from any other location didn't count... Despite all indications being that people working from home were as productive the past year (they served twice as many students without doubling the staff), it looks like they are returning to that policy now... DW just moved up a level and plans to fight to reinstitute a remote work option. We are FI, so this is a bit of and FU money battle.

BuffaloStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Location: The boring middle accumulation phase
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3887 on: July 13, 2021, 07:40:25 AM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway.  It's ridiculous.

This is mostly my job. Fortunately my company hasn't forced us back yet. They tell us that they "expect" us to come in "on some sort of regular schedule", but that nothing is forced. So I've taken to coming into the office ~once a month in the morning hours, and then pick up lunch from one of my favorite takeout spots on the way home before working from home in the afternoons. If I'm pressed, I'll explain that this is a "regular schedule", haha. Most of the people I work with day-to-day (that are in the same state) also work fully remotely, so there's that as well.

...
So then, instead of working from home, we would fly to the DC office and work a day from there.  Since no one knew who we were, there was no interruptions.  The bosses were ok with this because we were still in a company facility.   

This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).

rantk81

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 739
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3888 on: July 13, 2021, 07:53:56 AM »
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).

That actually sounds pretty miserable to me.  I find it extremely stressful and draining to go through the air-travel-rigmarole.... twice in one day (in addition to doing actual work) sounds awful.


Uturn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3889 on: July 14, 2021, 06:13:57 AM »

...
So then, instead of working from home, we would fly to the DC office and work a day from there.  Since no one knew who we were, there was no interruptions.  The bosses were ok with this because we were still in a company facility.   

This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).

I would usually fly in late Thursday and back out Friday evening.  Getting out of DC on Friday evening sucks.  There was nothing nice about it.  But I could go on all day about the dumbassery that went on at that company.

markbike528CBX

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1672
  • Location: the Everbrown part of the Evergreen State (WA)
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3890 on: July 14, 2021, 07:37:56 AM »
...snip....
But I could go on all day about the dumbassery that went on at that company.
Please do.
I'd suggest the "Overheard at work" thread.
Or tell Scott Adams so he can put it in "Dilbert" if he hasn't done so already.

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3891 on: July 14, 2021, 09:29:22 AM »
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).

That actually sounds pretty miserable to me.  I find it extremely stressful and draining to go through the air-travel-rigmarole.... twice in one day (in addition to doing actual work) sounds awful.

I would, if I could bill travel time. I used to to do this at a previous employer. Billing started 2H prior to flight. and ended 1H after flight, or when I got to client site. Just had to make sure to log everything. This was in the late 2000s. Wife was working long CPA hours and in grad school; didn't have kids.
I've done 16 hour days to fill in for someone at another regional site for some very important tests that are planned months in advance; fortunately it was very rare. Stopped doing it and then quit that employer when they changed the rules and didn't appreciate the efforts of the engineers to step in at the last minute. They had the gall to say "you should appreciate you have a job" during the last housing meltdown.
Didn't have FU money at the time, but did find a better job for a 30% raise and FU'd the department manager. Some bridges can be burnt.

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3404
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3892 on: July 14, 2021, 09:35:43 AM »
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).

That actually sounds pretty miserable to me.  I find it extremely stressful and draining to go through the air-travel-rigmarole.... twice in one day (in addition to doing actual work) sounds awful.

BuffaloStache is me when I took a job involving loads of travel. rantk81 is me two years later.

I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting. Boss was surprised and disappointed. My carbon footprint says thank you to my FU money.

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3893 on: July 14, 2021, 09:42:08 AM »
This is amazing! Would you fly into DC and home on the same day? Sounds like a quick way to rack up air miles, and get paid to sit on an airplane and read books/watch movies/etc. (one of the best perks of business travel, IMO).

That actually sounds pretty miserable to me.  I find it extremely stressful and draining to go through the air-travel-rigmarole.... twice in one day (in addition to doing actual work) sounds awful.

BuffaloStache is me when I took a job involving loads of travel. rantk81 is me two years later.

I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting. Boss was surprised and disappointed. My carbon footprint says thank you to my FU money.

One morning meeting for a trans-continental flight? I would try and turn this into a minimum 5-day trip aka boondoggle. There so much corporate jargon I could use to justify up the chain.

NorthernIkigai

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 43
  • Connoisseur of Leisure
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3894 on: July 14, 2021, 10:37:54 AM »
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting.

I thought the UK time zone was only 1 hour behind Central European Time, not 2 years behind...

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3404
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3895 on: July 14, 2021, 10:49:32 AM »
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting.

I thought the UK time zone was only 1 hour behind Central European Time, not 2 years behind...

Ridiculous right? It's as if we've managed to unlearn everything Covid taught us.

bbqbonelesswing

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 318
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Philly
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3896 on: July 14, 2021, 05:50:07 PM »
I've noticed that at least half of the software dev jobs out there now are offering 100% remote work. I really don't know what these companies are thinking that they can force workers back to the office.

My roommate is being forced back in the office, where he spends the day on Zoom calls with other people who aren't at his location anyway.  It's ridiculous.

This is so accurate. I've been going back to the office a few days per week, but my customers are spread out all over the globe. We have no in-person meetings unless it's a rare big visit. It makes no sense; I can take a call from my apartment just as easily as I could from an office. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that our CEO doubled down and bought a new office building in 2019...

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8103
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3897 on: July 14, 2021, 06:15:50 PM »
Ridiculous right? It's as if we've managed to unlearn everything Covid taught us.

I know a lot of people who haven't learned a truthful lesson about Covid yet.   At least 45% of the folks in my county haven't learned yet.

Plina

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 526
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3898 on: July 15, 2021, 12:53:52 PM »
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting.

I thought the UK time zone was only 1 hour behind Central European Time, not 2 years behind...

Ridiculous right? It's as if we've managed to unlearn everything Covid taught us.

Here the companies are making big savings on travel and minimized offices. There is no way they can justify going back to precovid level of travel.

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3404
Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3899 on: July 15, 2021, 02:54:56 PM »
I just declined to fly from London to south America for a one morning meeting.

I thought the UK time zone was only 1 hour behind Central European Time, not 2 years behind...

Ridiculous right? It's as if we've managed to unlearn everything Covid taught us.

Here the companies are making big savings on travel and minimized offices. There is no way they can justify going back to precovid level of travel.

I'm sure that's true for some companies in the UK. Mine seems to be looking to show clients that we care about them by flying half way around the world to shake their hand and share our germs. I'm not sure it's what our clients want...