Author Topic: Epic FU money stories  (Read 1844961 times)

2sk22

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3700 on: March 09, 2021, 03:25:34 AM »
I don't have an epic FU money story. But this post by @SwordGuy , on this thread, in 2016 got my brain cogs spinning:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/msg1110522/#msg1110522

Things at my previous job weren't going well. Every other week I (along with my lead network engineer) were the whipping boys of a high-level gov civilian in the DoD. (The engineer who was the whipping boy in my "respite week" in my current director.) There came a time, after a year of whippings, that I took my manager outside the office and told him I was tired of working with a shitty software product, which I had assessed 18 months prior and said it was worse than a sack of manure, yet the agency purchased it. The vendor support was piss-poor, and the gov oversight was getting into my underwear. I asked for another job within the company. My manager said no, I had to stay to work and complete the project in the next 6 months as it was high-visibilty. Later that week, I read the above-mentioned post on this thread. Took my boss outside, told him I was ready to quit. He asked me about money; I said I had enough saved up. (Between rental income and my wife's earnings, we would be fine.) In addition, I was also wearing 2 other hats, so they'd need 2-3 people to replace me. He gave me a 10% raise on the spot, and got me a bonus $10k a week later. He thought that would satisfy someone with FU money. A couple of months later, after several interviews, and taking my time to pick, I went with a small business where I had latitude to do many different things, instead of being stuck in a Fortune 500 where I was just another billable butt-in-seat resource.

Thanks to FU money and advice on this forum, I'm now making 33% more than I did 3 years ago (not counting for inflation). I have a flex-work schedule, zero management and gov people sitting on my head.

Good for you! Even when you actually have genuine FU money, it can be difficult to actually make use of it - fear of the unknown etc.

alcon835

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3701 on: March 09, 2021, 06:35:25 AM »
What I really want to know, what did your boss say when you told him you were quitting after all, a few weeks later?
Another bonus of being a Mustachian and ex-Boglehead is that at my current employer, I complained about our crappy 401k. The owners told me to write up a paper showing proof, which convinced them. Ended up moving the 401k to Guideline, reducing employer fees/costs by 77%.

Ha! I love it! I did something similar, got the company to add a match to the 401k last year. This year I've almost got them to adopt "True up" so we don't have to meter the contributions out over 26 paychecks and potentially miss a match or two at the end of year!

RWD

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3702 on: March 09, 2021, 07:15:11 AM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3703 on: March 09, 2021, 07:51:37 AM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

jinga nation

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3704 on: March 09, 2021, 09:19:58 AM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3705 on: March 09, 2021, 10:47:48 AM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

justchristine

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3706 on: March 09, 2021, 11:25:07 AM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

Oh man, I'm jealous.  Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting.  This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.

jinga nation

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3707 on: March 09, 2021, 11:43:31 AM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.
Sir, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3708 on: March 09, 2021, 11:57:36 AM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

Oh man, I'm jealous.  Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting.  This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.
Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply. 
If there isn't an agenda or at least a script for daily meetings then, nearly by definition, it is useless.

mm1970

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3709 on: March 09, 2021, 12:13:32 PM »
@jinga nation I think that was epic!

justchristine

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3710 on: March 09, 2021, 12:16:23 PM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

Oh man, I'm jealous.  Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting.  This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.
Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply. 
If there isn't an agenda or at least a script for daily meetings then, nearly by definition, it is useless.
We don't always have an agenda but I tend to get asked questions a lot.  Plus my manager is in almost all of my meetings, and is very much a micromanager.  I can assure you they would notice. 

AlanStache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3711 on: March 09, 2021, 01:01:50 PM »
And we are not big on meetings...

markbike528CBX

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3712 on: March 09, 2021, 01:10:23 PM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

Oh man, I'm jealous.  Someone of some level of importance would notice if I skipped a meeting.  This has less to do with my importance and more to do with the level of micromanaging that has become the norm in my department.
Maybe not, if you are not on the agenda, outta sight, outta mind might apply. 
If there isn't an agenda or at least a script for daily meetings then, nearly by definition, it is useless.
We don't always have an agenda but I tend to get asked questions a lot.  Plus my manager is in almost all of my meetings, and is very much a micromanager.  I can assure you they would notice.
Start slow and avoid the useless meetings that your manager _doesn't_ attend.
Or stroke the ego, and say "this is a management level meeting, I'll give you all the info needed".
Or if you have and desire to use FU money, just don't go.   Have a critical gig going at those times.    YMMV

RetiredAt63

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3713 on: March 09, 2021, 02:22:30 PM »
I have declined two pointless meetings this week without giving a reason. No one has asked so far.

Yes!! I love this. Keep it up. I'm trying to decline more meetings myself and have found that usually, nobody asks or cares why I didn't go.

I get added to random meetings. The worse part is a lack of agenda or topics to discuss. Hence I don't attend. They haven't noticed. It has been 3 years at the customer site.
(I've always made it a point to provide attendees with an agenda in meetings I set up to make it productive and quick.)

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.
Sir, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.

Sorry, my built-in editor had the urge to make some revisions.    ;-)

Sir, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.

>>>>>

Ma'am, this is the DoD/FedGov. Thank you for the compliments.
Don't forget to pay your taxes. Uncle Sam loves you.  You are a Canadian, Uncle Sam isn't sure how he feels about you.  You don't pay any taxes here. Do you buy lots of American goods?  Do you spend lots of money here on vacation?

Smokystache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3714 on: March 09, 2021, 02:53:14 PM »

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!!  - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this! 

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3715 on: March 10, 2021, 06:00:46 AM »

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!!  - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this! 

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.  And yes academics can talk forever - it is what we are paid to do, after all.  We didn't want the second half of the agenda tabled until the next time because we ran out of time, that way lies madness. 

I've seen the endless yak-yak at non-work meetings too, especially executive meetings.  Some people seem to see meetings as social time.  I don't but then I am an introvert, let's just get the agenda covered and be done!  Even if "done" is really meeting followed by social time, let's keep them separate!

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3716 on: March 10, 2021, 08:00:40 AM »

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!!  - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this! 

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.  And yes academics can talk forever - it is what we are paid to do, after all.  We didn't want the second half of the agenda tabled until the next time because we ran out of time, that way lies madness. 

I've seen the endless yak-yak at non-work meetings too, especially executive meetings.  Some people seem to see meetings as social time.  I don't but then I am an introvert, let's just get the agenda covered and be done!  Even if "done" is really meeting followed by social time, let's keep them separate!

My manager looooves to turn meetings into social time. Commonly heard at the end of the set meeting time: "Does anyone have a hard stop?"

Nutty

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3717 on: March 10, 2021, 10:19:46 AM »
My manager looooves to turn meetings into social time. Commonly heard at the end of the set meeting time: "Does anyone have a hard stop?"
I might have worked for that one too.  Yes, I do have a hard stop if you expect me to complete my projects by your imposed deadline.  Several people would clutch their phones and excuse themselves, never to return.  Some people would have their coworker call them with a "get out of meeting free" call.  Good friends will cover for you.

I've walked out of meetings that strayed from an agenda.  I've also took control, imposed my agenda and adjourned them early.  I've got work to do and this ain't it.

BTW, quitting time can be a hard stop too.  I've got better places to be.  Don't get me wrong, I love my paycheck, er, company during working hours.  :)

BussoV6

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3718 on: March 11, 2021, 03:23:48 AM »

Maybe academia is different? Maybe it's the unions? Every place I've taught, agendas had to be sent out well in advance.  The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.  Hmm, nope, not just work, all my non-work groups have agendas for their meetings.  If there isn't an agenda it is a social get-together, not a meeting.

You hang out with a lazy/sloppy crowd.

My old faculty meetings had agendas - but you still couldn't pay me enough to go back to one. A bunch of PhDs sitting in a room and everyone thinks they know more than everyone else and has to get their $.02 in. Doesn't matter if they have any expertise on the topic - Enrollments down? I've got a few ideas for Admissions!!  - Low fundraising?? Why don't they try this! 

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.  And yes academics can talk forever - it is what we are paid to do, after all.  We didn't want the second half of the agenda tabled until the next time because we ran out of time, that way lies madness. 

I've seen the endless yak-yak at non-work meetings too, especially executive meetings.  Some people seem to see meetings as social time.  I don't but then I am an introvert, let's just get the agenda covered and be done!  Even if "done" is really meeting followed by social time, let's keep them separate!

My manager looooves to turn meetings into social time. Commonly heard at the end of the set meeting time: "Does anyone have a hard stop?"

I'm the one with a hard stop everytime a meeting threatens to run over. I also decline anything where I don't see the value as being worth my time.

LennStar

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3719 on: March 11, 2021, 04:47:02 AM »
The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.
And the people who get things done put an end time to a meeting (and adhere to it).

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.

LOL see? QED!

If there is a definitive end, people will only talk about the important things once they get used to it. And people who can't do that (there is always one ego too big) get the social distancing treatment and learn it after a bit - or leave one way or the other.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3720 on: March 11, 2021, 09:02:50 AM »
The really effective meeting chairs put a start time on each item.
And the people who get things done put an end time to a meeting (and adhere to it).

The only thing that saved us was the room was needed for the next class at 2pm. Have to go! Ugh.

Our meetings were useful only because everyone had to  be out at the scheduled end time, we all had classes to get to.

LOL see? QED!

If there is a definitive end, people will only talk about the important things once they get used to it. And people who can't do that (there is always one ego too big) get the social distancing treatment and learn it after a bit - or leave one way or the other.

Exactly.  The start time for an item is the end time for the previous item, so that works.  Our last agenda item was always "any other business"  so it could be super short or horribly long.  Definitely an end time had to be there.  Plus people learned that anything important needed its own agenda spot since AOB tended to not be the best place for informed discussion.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3721 on: March 11, 2021, 12:49:40 PM »
More of a "polite no thank you" than an FU, but it was still very satisfying.

DW and I hit FI last year, but she still really likes her work. They clearly like her too because they offered her a promotion this spring. It'd be a nice raise for her and we think she will enjoy the new role even more than the current one. The only problem is her current contract is 186 days a year and the new one is 220 and losing seven weeks of potential travel would not be worth it.  So, she told them she would love the job, but is only willing to work a 200 day contract. Even though it's still a substantial raise, they seemed surprised she didn't mind giving up 20 days of pay. Once they realized she was serious they accepted her proposal. FI means she didn't have to choose between career advancement and having time off to enjoy life.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3722 on: March 11, 2021, 01:22:49 PM »
May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3723 on: March 11, 2021, 03:16:55 PM »
May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!

Yes, good for her!

Warlord1986

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3724 on: March 14, 2021, 11:46:10 AM »
@Alternatepriorities  good one! Always happy to see people choose life over money.

Blondetuco

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3725 on: March 15, 2021, 12:04:10 PM »
I posted a few months back about leaving a job because of a horrible boss. Turns out I wasn't the only one that had enough of her crap, and she was recently let go. They were unable to fill my position in the five(!!!) months since I left.

I was contacted today about coming back to the company under new management. Luckily, my SO and I just had a conversation about how well we're doing financially - and how much happier I've been - since taking a 30% paycut in my current position. It was the easiest "Thanks, but no thanks" I have given someone.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 02:22:33 PM by Blondetuco »

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3726 on: March 15, 2021, 08:01:01 PM »
I posted a few months back about leaving a job because of a horrible boss. Turns out I wasn't the only one that had enough of her crap, and she was recently let go. They were unable to fill my position in the five(!!!) months since I left.

I was contacted today about coming back to the company under new management. Luckily, my SO and I just had a conversation about how well we're doing financially - and how much happier I've been - since taking a 30% paycut in my current position. It was the easiest "Thanks, but no thanks" I have given someone.
Whoop, whoop!

LightTripper

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3727 on: March 16, 2021, 03:59:20 AM »
Great to hear about karma in full action there @Blondetuco !

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3728 on: March 16, 2021, 09:24:30 AM »
I've got a potential one brewing in a 2000 person company.

9(!!!!!!!!) months ago a person who reports to the C suite indicated they'd like to give me 3 of their 4 subroles as an "apprentice" which is code for "without losing credit for it for a few months in case my new roles don't work out." It's influential work and very poorly defined, which is appropriate for that person's level, which is two levels above mine, and represents a shift in career direction to a new vertical. So I asked about title and pay to help me decide, hearing "we'll get back to you" which is fair since this involves multiple people. I wasn't thrilled with having to bring those things up to the C suite nor several of the follow-ups from leadership who basically expect me to immediately take them up on it.

In the meantime I've been declining meeting invitations associated with the role, or attending and declining most action items, which has undoubtedly ruffled some feathers. I've held steady, buoyed by the fact that the average tenure in these roles has been < 1 year, with the big wigs kicking you out or people burning out, and we get raises annually... This otherwise has been the right move, since I'm (correctly) on my own in delegating current tasks to make room.

Last week we got annual review promotions and I got one and a very healthy raise, but I happen to know these roles were not a part of that calculus. I think senior management is going to have a conniption fit when they approach me soon with "now that that's settled..." and I interrupt them to say "I was promoted to level 5 because I'm doing level 5 work. If you want me to do level 6 work in the other vertical I'm still waiting for information on title and pay to help me make that choice."
We've progressed to IMs of "do you have a few minutes to chat" actually being the meetings I've been declining, people currently doing roles but who have no authority to change things coming to me asking about when I'll be the roles because they're so busy and attempting to get me to just do it, and meetings with vague topics turning into "thanks for joining, let's talk through this task I'm handing off to you"....
Meanwhile some of the people doing this role are leaving the company and referencing these roles directly. They need help and I want to help, but I mean....
Requests for people to sign up in meetings full of my peers are met with silence....

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3729 on: March 16, 2021, 10:09:24 AM »
meetings with vague topics turning into "thanks for joining, let's talk through this task I'm handing off to you"....

Are you accepting the tasks?  Sounds like if you don't formally accept the role their next tactic is to just trickle it onto you.

LightTripper

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3730 on: March 16, 2021, 10:19:15 AM »
Right - sounds like they are relying on goodwill that somebody (probably you) will just sweep up the dropped tasks to be helpful.  Which would be a worst of all worlds as it won't even be in your job description or compensated.  Your managers need to actually manage the situation ... sounds like it would be worth actively reaching out to your manager to discuss the situation?

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3731 on: March 16, 2021, 10:50:22 AM »
Yep! My immediate manager is definitely in the loop and is taking it up the chain with a clear bright line "this is not going to just happen to work itself out" directive.

It's unfortunate because there's a very real possibility that if they just showed me a table that clearly showed they're paying me like a level 6, even if my title isn't, that I'd likely grumble about being voluntold but then set to doing it. We're in professional services too, so they only really care about my salary so much since we're just billing it out anyway. It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $. Just doing it is a fine way to gain responsibilities early in a professional services career but at some point you have to do more of purposeful 'explosion ladder' approach to get stronger not just 5 more pull-ups. Our job descriptions, like many consultants, are basically the equivalent "get stronger", fast and loose.

I'm telling people in the roles that I'm not able to assist yet, breaking that pattern only in the case of things that are extremely simple or otherwise interesting to me. They're left with the impression I want to help..
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 10:53:30 AM by swashbucklinstache »

AMandM

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3732 on: March 16, 2021, 11:23:11 AM »
It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.
I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need?  Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3733 on: March 16, 2021, 12:17:55 PM »
It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.
I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need?  Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?
You're not wrong, it isn't at all rational. Life and times of a consultancy though at this level. Asking for anything at all from another group, HR to literally do their job in this case, requires a political trade-off. It also requires the C suit to spend 10 consecutive minutes focusing on the division they run instead of how they can get promoted or an extra half percent on their bonus, (or actual more important things, to be fair) which probably explains the 9 month wait time. We bill our time in 6 minute increments and our company #2 starts her day by reviewing yesterday's numbers...

Not a surprise FI is on the mind, nor that more sanely run startups are eating our lunch.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3734 on: March 16, 2021, 01:09:51 PM »
Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.

Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 01:11:25 PM by dandarc »

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3735 on: March 16, 2021, 01:49:11 PM »
Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.

Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.
Pretty much. Based on the talent walking out the door we're in the early stages of the latter.

It's a difficult model to effectively scale, which is part of the reason they don't sell for high multiples. Management is kind of like simultaneous running 10-3000 companies at once, more of a loose coalition than a company. Pros and cons to that arrangement of course, and if one wants to trade that set of problems for another the door's always there.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3736 on: March 16, 2021, 02:32:58 PM »
May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!
Thanks! It feels pretty epic for us.

@Alternatepriorities  good one! Always happy to see people choose life over money.

This is a good reminder. I suspect I will always be temped if "the money is good enough" and I need to remember that there is a declining utility to the money especially if it comes at the cost of mental or physical health...

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3737 on: March 19, 2021, 06:51:36 AM »
Notice given Wednesday with 5/1 end date. And working 4 days per week starting next week until then (thanks new leave policy of only paying out 80 hours!), new gig will be 3 days per week in May. The couple people who asked what the next thing is I said "semi-retirement, and if I had any courage / willingness to cut our budget more than I really want to, I could be going to full-on retirement".

Now if I can get this damn website they asked me to stand up to actually work today I'll be in really good shape. I really hate the system programmer parts of the job, and that work seems to quite often find me. Actually looking back, this sort of thing becoming more of the job than I'd like has probably driven every major career change I've made since college.

scottish

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3738 on: March 19, 2021, 03:41:30 PM »
Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.

Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.

It's Price's law at work:

Quote
Price’s Law says that 50% of work at a company is done by a small number of people.  Specifically, it says that 50% of work is done by the square root of the number of employees.

Once those people start leaving the organization slowly grinds to a halt.

jinga nation

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3739 on: March 19, 2021, 07:14:22 PM »
Notice given Wednesday with 5/1 end date. And working 4 days per week starting next week until then (thanks new leave policy of only paying out 80 hours!), new gig will be 3 days per week in May. The couple people who asked what the next thing is I said "semi-retirement, and if I had any courage / willingness to cut our budget more than I really want to, I could be going to full-on retirement".

Now if I can get this damn website they asked me to stand up to actually work today I'll be in really good shape. I really hate the system programmer parts of the job, and that work seems to quite often find me. Actually looking back, this sort of thing becoming more of the job than I'd like has probably driven every major career change I've made since college.

Nice! I'm living FI/FIRE vicariously thru folks like you (IT/engineering/sysadmin keyboard masher here).

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3740 on: March 20, 2021, 10:51:40 AM »
Notice given Wednesday with 5/1 end date. And working 4 days per week starting next week until then (thanks new leave policy of only paying out 80 hours!), new gig will be 3 days per week in May. The couple people who asked what the next thing is I said "semi-retirement, and if I had any courage / willingness to cut our budget more than I really want to, I could be going to full-on retirement".

Now if I can get this damn website they asked me to stand up to actually work today I'll be in really good shape. I really hate the system programmer parts of the job, and that work seems to quite often find me. Actually looking back, this sort of thing becoming more of the job than I'd like has probably driven every major career change I've made since college.

Nice! I'm living FI/FIRE vicariously thru folks like you (IT/engineering/sysadmin keyboard masher here).
Took about 8.5 years for our investments to go from $40K to > $1M - we didn't make any investments other than broad market index funds that are advocated basically everywhere in the FIRE community. I guess we technically had investment real estate for 17 months in there, but it performed quite badly - we gave the tenant who we knew outside of "rent the house" a hell of a deal because we knew, to the extent these things can be known, that we would be moving back into this house quite soon.

So the process advocated on most FIRE sites such as this one definitely does work if my experience is any indication. The FU part for me was low-key - I started talking about retirement and manager trying to talk me out of it immediately realizes I'm really going and there isn't anything they can do to stop it. They probably could make a stink and prevent me from taking this particular thing I've got lined up, but they almost certainly won't because all they'd be doing is pissing off a customer and I'm just one person who is only willing to work 24 hours per week now - not exactly a big money maker for a consulting firm no matter how you slice it.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 10:56:24 AM by dandarc »

talltexan

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3741 on: March 29, 2021, 06:21:53 AM »
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3742 on: March 29, 2021, 06:35:58 AM »
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.
Wow, that's petty.

Now, how to fix it?  That's not too bad, actually.  Slosh them around in a 55-gallon drum with a few gallons of gasoline, then do the same with soapy water. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3743 on: March 29, 2021, 06:52:32 AM »
Maybe he should dump some motor oil in front of the shop's door.  You know, being a good and honest citizen returning the "overage" in his paycheck.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3744 on: March 29, 2021, 07:03:04 AM »
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.

Zaga

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3745 on: March 29, 2021, 08:06:53 AM »
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.
I also kind of love counting and rolling coins.  I get it.

haflander

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3746 on: March 29, 2021, 08:11:26 AM »
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.
I also kind of love counting and rolling coins.  I get it.

Even though you're handling pennies and quarters, part of the allure for me is pretending that I'm Scrooge McDuck, swimming in thousands of gold coins.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3747 on: March 29, 2021, 09:50:27 AM »
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.
I also kind of love counting and rolling coins.  I get it.

Even though you're handling pennies and quarters, part of the allure for me is pretending that I'm Scrooge McDuck, swimming in thousands of gold coins.
I actually started rolling $10 worth of pennies every time I counted the money in the jug and exchanging for $1 coins at the bank which I'd put back in the jug to make it gradually look more like Scrooge McDuck's vault. By the time we moved to California and I deposited the more than $1,000 in the jug, it had a noticeably golder hue overall.

Smokystache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3748 on: March 29, 2021, 10:31:21 AM »
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.

I liked the recommendation that if the owner doesn't remember if he dropped them off, then how does the ex-employee know that this is his last payment for wages? (Yea, I know they left a pay stub...) If the employer doesn't admit it outright, then he still needs to pay the man.

Sounds like this was the tip of the iceberg - pulling down female employees pants in front of staff, yelling and belittling other employees, a real gem of a guy. Their reviews on Facebook have just gotten destroyed.

SwordGuy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3749 on: March 29, 2021, 10:39:11 AM »
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.

I liked the recommendation that if the owner doesn't remember if he dropped them off, then how does the ex-employee know that this is his last payment for wages? (Yea, I know they left a pay stub...) If the employer doesn't admit it outright, then he still needs to pay the man.

Sounds like this was the tip of the iceberg - pulling down female employees pants in front of staff, yelling and belittling other employees, a real gem of a guy. Their reviews on Facebook have just gotten destroyed.

Oh, yeah!   He's got a pay stub but he's GOT NO CASHED CHECK and NO RECEIPT FOR PAYMENT.   The employer is on record that he can't remember dropping the coins off and NO ONE WOULD FORGET DOING THIS to someone.  Ergo, he hasn't paid the wages because he hasn't got proof he paid.

It's just a coincidence that someone left a bunch of hazmat pennies in the driveway and it was pretty rude to leave the paystub in that hazmat pile.

I think he should contact BOTH the environmental dept for hazmat dumping AND the labor board for non-payment.   Let his prior employer decide whether he wants to own up to the hazmat dumping and pay those fines or claim the coins aren't from him and PAY THE WAGES AGAIN.

Living well and getting revenge is the best revenge.   ;)