Author Topic: Epic FU money stories  (Read 2340936 times)

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3700 on: March 11, 2021, 12:49:40 PM »
More of a "polite no thank you" than an FU, but it was still very satisfying.

DW and I hit FI last year, but she still really likes her work. They clearly like her too because they offered her a promotion this spring. It'd be a nice raise for her and we think she will enjoy the new role even more than the current one. The only problem is her current contract is 186 days a year and the new one is 220 and losing seven weeks of potential travel would not be worth it.  So, she told them she would love the job, but is only willing to work a 200 day contract. Even though it's still a substantial raise, they seemed surprised she didn't mind giving up 20 days of pay. Once they realized she was serious they accepted her proposal. FI means she didn't have to choose between career advancement and having time off to enjoy life.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3701 on: March 11, 2021, 01:22:49 PM »
May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3702 on: March 11, 2021, 03:16:55 PM »
May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!

Yes, good for her!

Warlord1986

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3703 on: March 14, 2021, 11:46:10 AM »
@Alternatepriorities  good one! Always happy to see people choose life over money.

Blondetuco

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3704 on: March 15, 2021, 12:04:10 PM »
I posted a few months back about leaving a job because of a horrible boss. Turns out I wasn't the only one that had enough of her crap, and she was recently let go. They were unable to fill my position in the five(!!!) months since I left.

I was contacted today about coming back to the company under new management. Luckily, my SO and I just had a conversation about how well we're doing financially - and how much happier I've been - since taking a 30% paycut in my current position. It was the easiest "Thanks, but no thanks" I have given someone.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 02:22:33 PM by Blondetuco »

Dicey

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3705 on: March 15, 2021, 08:01:01 PM »
I posted a few months back about leaving a job because of a horrible boss. Turns out I wasn't the only one that had enough of her crap, and she was recently let go. They were unable to fill my position in the five(!!!) months since I left.

I was contacted today about coming back to the company under new management. Luckily, my SO and I just had a conversation about how well we're doing financially - and how much happier I've been - since taking a 30% paycut in my current position. It was the easiest "Thanks, but no thanks" I have given someone.
Whoop, whoop!

LightTripper

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3706 on: March 16, 2021, 03:59:20 AM »
Great to hear about karma in full action there @Blondetuco !

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3707 on: March 16, 2021, 09:24:30 AM »
I've got a potential one brewing in a 2000 person company.

9(!!!!!!!!) months ago a person who reports to the C suite indicated they'd like to give me 3 of their 4 subroles as an "apprentice" which is code for "without losing credit for it for a few months in case my new roles don't work out." It's influential work and very poorly defined, which is appropriate for that person's level, which is two levels above mine, and represents a shift in career direction to a new vertical. So I asked about title and pay to help me decide, hearing "we'll get back to you" which is fair since this involves multiple people. I wasn't thrilled with having to bring those things up to the C suite nor several of the follow-ups from leadership who basically expect me to immediately take them up on it.

In the meantime I've been declining meeting invitations associated with the role, or attending and declining most action items, which has undoubtedly ruffled some feathers. I've held steady, buoyed by the fact that the average tenure in these roles has been < 1 year, with the big wigs kicking you out or people burning out, and we get raises annually... This otherwise has been the right move, since I'm (correctly) on my own in delegating current tasks to make room.

Last week we got annual review promotions and I got one and a very healthy raise, but I happen to know these roles were not a part of that calculus. I think senior management is going to have a conniption fit when they approach me soon with "now that that's settled..." and I interrupt them to say "I was promoted to level 5 because I'm doing level 5 work. If you want me to do level 6 work in the other vertical I'm still waiting for information on title and pay to help me make that choice."
We've progressed to IMs of "do you have a few minutes to chat" actually being the meetings I've been declining, people currently doing roles but who have no authority to change things coming to me asking about when I'll be the roles because they're so busy and attempting to get me to just do it, and meetings with vague topics turning into "thanks for joining, let's talk through this task I'm handing off to you"....
Meanwhile some of the people doing this role are leaving the company and referencing these roles directly. They need help and I want to help, but I mean....
Requests for people to sign up in meetings full of my peers are met with silence....

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3708 on: March 16, 2021, 10:09:24 AM »
meetings with vague topics turning into "thanks for joining, let's talk through this task I'm handing off to you"....

Are you accepting the tasks?  Sounds like if you don't formally accept the role their next tactic is to just trickle it onto you.

LightTripper

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3709 on: March 16, 2021, 10:19:15 AM »
Right - sounds like they are relying on goodwill that somebody (probably you) will just sweep up the dropped tasks to be helpful.  Which would be a worst of all worlds as it won't even be in your job description or compensated.  Your managers need to actually manage the situation ... sounds like it would be worth actively reaching out to your manager to discuss the situation?

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3710 on: March 16, 2021, 10:50:22 AM »
Yep! My immediate manager is definitely in the loop and is taking it up the chain with a clear bright line "this is not going to just happen to work itself out" directive.

It's unfortunate because there's a very real possibility that if they just showed me a table that clearly showed they're paying me like a level 6, even if my title isn't, that I'd likely grumble about being voluntold but then set to doing it. We're in professional services too, so they only really care about my salary so much since we're just billing it out anyway. It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $. Just doing it is a fine way to gain responsibilities early in a professional services career but at some point you have to do more of purposeful 'explosion ladder' approach to get stronger not just 5 more pull-ups. Our job descriptions, like many consultants, are basically the equivalent "get stronger", fast and loose.

I'm telling people in the roles that I'm not able to assist yet, breaking that pattern only in the case of things that are extremely simple or otherwise interesting to me. They're left with the impression I want to help..
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 10:53:30 AM by swashbucklinstache »

AMandM

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3711 on: March 16, 2021, 11:23:11 AM »
It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.
I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need?  Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3712 on: March 16, 2021, 12:17:55 PM »
It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.
I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need?  Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?
You're not wrong, it isn't at all rational. Life and times of a consultancy though at this level. Asking for anything at all from another group, HR to literally do their job in this case, requires a political trade-off. It also requires the C suit to spend 10 consecutive minutes focusing on the division they run instead of how they can get promoted or an extra half percent on their bonus, (or actual more important things, to be fair) which probably explains the 9 month wait time. We bill our time in 6 minute increments and our company #2 starts her day by reviewing yesterday's numbers...

Not a surprise FI is on the mind, nor that more sanely run startups are eating our lunch.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3713 on: March 16, 2021, 01:09:51 PM »
Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.

Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 01:11:25 PM by dandarc »

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3714 on: March 16, 2021, 01:49:11 PM »
Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.

Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.
Pretty much. Based on the talent walking out the door we're in the early stages of the latter.

It's a difficult model to effectively scale, which is part of the reason they don't sell for high multiples. Management is kind of like simultaneous running 10-3000 companies at once, more of a loose coalition than a company. Pros and cons to that arrangement of course, and if one wants to trade that set of problems for another the door's always there.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3715 on: March 16, 2021, 02:32:58 PM »
May not be FU, but certainly EPIC @Alternatepriorities!
Thanks! It feels pretty epic for us.

@Alternatepriorities  good one! Always happy to see people choose life over money.

This is a good reminder. I suspect I will always be temped if "the money is good enough" and I need to remember that there is a declining utility to the money especially if it comes at the cost of mental or physical health...

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3716 on: March 19, 2021, 06:51:36 AM »
Notice given Wednesday with 5/1 end date. And working 4 days per week starting next week until then (thanks new leave policy of only paying out 80 hours!), new gig will be 3 days per week in May. The couple people who asked what the next thing is I said "semi-retirement, and if I had any courage / willingness to cut our budget more than I really want to, I could be going to full-on retirement".

Now if I can get this damn website they asked me to stand up to actually work today I'll be in really good shape. I really hate the system programmer parts of the job, and that work seems to quite often find me. Actually looking back, this sort of thing becoming more of the job than I'd like has probably driven every major career change I've made since college.

scottish

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3717 on: March 19, 2021, 03:41:30 PM »
Professional consulting firms often get to a certain size and lose the ability to think. And there tends to be a correlated sense of entitlement to the margin they charge as well. Tend to sell out to ever larger firms until one of those firms is "Deloitte" or one of the other huge players or the whole thing just collapses due to company's previously mentioned back-office incompetence and sense of entitlement.

Maybe that's specific to government IT consulting, but I've seen the show play out twice now since 2008 - first firm I got into this with back then was in the "blowing up and not in a good way" stage, but being new I had no idea what I was witnessing at the time. Latest one sold out shortly after I joined. But between these two firms was a local outfit that seems content staying small - heading back to work with them in May if paperwork goes through.

It's Price's law at work:

Quote
Price’s Law says that 50% of work at a company is done by a small number of people.  Specifically, it says that 50% of work is done by the square root of the number of employees.

Once those people start leaving the organization slowly grinds to a halt.

jinga nation

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3718 on: March 19, 2021, 07:14:22 PM »
Notice given Wednesday with 5/1 end date. And working 4 days per week starting next week until then (thanks new leave policy of only paying out 80 hours!), new gig will be 3 days per week in May. The couple people who asked what the next thing is I said "semi-retirement, and if I had any courage / willingness to cut our budget more than I really want to, I could be going to full-on retirement".

Now if I can get this damn website they asked me to stand up to actually work today I'll be in really good shape. I really hate the system programmer parts of the job, and that work seems to quite often find me. Actually looking back, this sort of thing becoming more of the job than I'd like has probably driven every major career change I've made since college.

Nice! I'm living FI/FIRE vicariously thru folks like you (IT/engineering/sysadmin keyboard masher here).

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3719 on: March 20, 2021, 10:51:40 AM »
Notice given Wednesday with 5/1 end date. And working 4 days per week starting next week until then (thanks new leave policy of only paying out 80 hours!), new gig will be 3 days per week in May. The couple people who asked what the next thing is I said "semi-retirement, and if I had any courage / willingness to cut our budget more than I really want to, I could be going to full-on retirement".

Now if I can get this damn website they asked me to stand up to actually work today I'll be in really good shape. I really hate the system programmer parts of the job, and that work seems to quite often find me. Actually looking back, this sort of thing becoming more of the job than I'd like has probably driven every major career change I've made since college.

Nice! I'm living FI/FIRE vicariously thru folks like you (IT/engineering/sysadmin keyboard masher here).
Took about 8.5 years for our investments to go from $40K to > $1M - we didn't make any investments other than broad market index funds that are advocated basically everywhere in the FIRE community. I guess we technically had investment real estate for 17 months in there, but it performed quite badly - we gave the tenant who we knew outside of "rent the house" a hell of a deal because we knew, to the extent these things can be known, that we would be moving back into this house quite soon.

So the process advocated on most FIRE sites such as this one definitely does work if my experience is any indication. The FU part for me was low-key - I started talking about retirement and manager trying to talk me out of it immediately realizes I'm really going and there isn't anything they can do to stop it. They probably could make a stink and prevent me from taking this particular thing I've got lined up, but they almost certainly won't because all they'd be doing is pissing off a customer and I'm just one person who is only willing to work 24 hours per week now - not exactly a big money maker for a consulting firm no matter how you slice it.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 10:56:24 AM by dandarc »

talltexan

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3720 on: March 29, 2021, 06:21:53 AM »
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3721 on: March 29, 2021, 06:35:58 AM »
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.
Wow, that's petty.

Now, how to fix it?  That's not too bad, actually.  Slosh them around in a 55-gallon drum with a few gallons of gasoline, then do the same with soapy water. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3722 on: March 29, 2021, 06:52:32 AM »
Maybe he should dump some motor oil in front of the shop's door.  You know, being a good and honest citizen returning the "overage" in his paycheck.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3723 on: March 29, 2021, 07:03:04 AM »
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.

Zaga

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3724 on: March 29, 2021, 08:06:53 AM »
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.
I also kind of love counting and rolling coins.  I get it.

haflander

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3725 on: March 29, 2021, 08:11:26 AM »
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.
I also kind of love counting and rolling coins.  I get it.

Even though you're handling pennies and quarters, part of the allure for me is pretending that I'm Scrooge McDuck, swimming in thousands of gold coins.

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3726 on: March 29, 2021, 09:50:27 AM »
Aside from the cleaning the motor oil this falls under "don't threaten me with a good time" - I'm weird even for this forum in that I used to literally have "count my change by hand" as a hobby - dump it out, count it up, return to the jug. Every couple of months I'd do that - I found it calming.
I also kind of love counting and rolling coins.  I get it.

Even though you're handling pennies and quarters, part of the allure for me is pretending that I'm Scrooge McDuck, swimming in thousands of gold coins.
I actually started rolling $10 worth of pennies every time I counted the money in the jug and exchanging for $1 coins at the bank which I'd put back in the jug to make it gradually look more like Scrooge McDuck's vault. By the time we moved to California and I deposited the more than $1,000 in the jug, it had a noticeably golder hue overall.

Smokystache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3727 on: March 29, 2021, 10:31:21 AM »
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.

I liked the recommendation that if the owner doesn't remember if he dropped them off, then how does the ex-employee know that this is his last payment for wages? (Yea, I know they left a pay stub...) If the employer doesn't admit it outright, then he still needs to pay the man.

Sounds like this was the tip of the iceberg - pulling down female employees pants in front of staff, yelling and belittling other employees, a real gem of a guy. Their reviews on Facebook have just gotten destroyed.

SwordGuy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3728 on: March 29, 2021, 10:39:11 AM »
People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.

I liked the recommendation that if the owner doesn't remember if he dropped them off, then how does the ex-employee know that this is his last payment for wages? (Yea, I know they left a pay stub...) If the employer doesn't admit it outright, then he still needs to pay the man.

Sounds like this was the tip of the iceberg - pulling down female employees pants in front of staff, yelling and belittling other employees, a real gem of a guy. Their reviews on Facebook have just gotten destroyed.

Oh, yeah!   He's got a pay stub but he's GOT NO CASHED CHECK and NO RECEIPT FOR PAYMENT.   The employer is on record that he can't remember dropping the coins off and NO ONE WOULD FORGET DOING THIS to someone.  Ergo, he hasn't paid the wages because he hasn't got proof he paid.

It's just a coincidence that someone left a bunch of hazmat pennies in the driveway and it was pretty rude to leave the paystub in that hazmat pile.

I think he should contact BOTH the environmental dept for hazmat dumping AND the labor board for non-payment.   Let his prior employer decide whether he wants to own up to the hazmat dumping and pay those fines or claim the coins aren't from him and PAY THE WAGES AGAIN.

Living well and getting revenge is the best revenge.   ;)

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3729 on: March 29, 2021, 11:11:00 AM »
I think he should contact BOTH the environmental dept for hazmat dumping AND the labor board for non-payment.   Let his prior employer decide whether he wants to own up to the hazmat dumping and pay those fines or claim the coins aren't from him and PAY THE WAGES AGAIN.

I like the way you think

SwordGuy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3730 on: March 29, 2021, 01:25:55 PM »
I think he should contact BOTH the environmental dept for hazmat dumping AND the labor board for non-payment.   Let his prior employer decide whether he wants to own up to the hazmat dumping and pay those fines or claim the coins aren't from him and PAY THE WAGES AGAIN.

I like the way you think

You know, if he had just been paid in pennies that would be bad enough.   Petty and vile.  And if this fellow NEEDED that money right away to pay his rent or buy food it would have been even worse.

But coating the coins in hazmat liquids is beyond petty and vile.  It is absolutely worthy of retaliation.

FYI, the fellow should keep the dirty liquid he's using to wash off the pennies with.   If the employer decides to acknowledge that those were the wages, the employee return that skanky water in said wheelbarrow to his old employer because he, the employee, is an honest fellow and doesn't want to be paid anything he wasn't owed.   Of course, the wheelbarrow is so unwieldy, what with the wheels flattened from the weight of the pennies; it would be a shame if he accidentally spilled the liquid all over the lobby.

SwordGuy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3731 on: March 29, 2021, 01:27:30 PM »
After all, he wouldn't want to be accused of taking office supplies home with him!

At times like these it's important to keep the moral high ground, especially when the lower ground is flooded with skanky, oily water.

LennStar

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3732 on: March 30, 2021, 05:20:40 AM »
Not office supplies, work material.

People on the internet are talking about the employer who sent a man his final paycheck in the form of "motor-fluid-covered pennies"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/business/auto-shop-pennies.html

The employer's quote about how he "cannot remember" if he dropped off five hundred pounds of pennies somewhere is breath-taking.
As later written in the article (contrary the the first fat paragraph) even after Trump this is likely an environmental protection law violation. Was my first thought.

But I think it is interesting that there is no rule regarding to the form of payment.
How is it in the US? In Germany shops don't have to accept bills above 100€ (for small amounts) or heaps of cents. It should also go the other way.

Saying that, maybe someone wants to pay for his next repair in pennies? Securely deposited inside a block of concrete.

I think he should contact BOTH the environmental dept for hazmat dumping AND the labor board for non-payment.   Let his prior employer decide whether he wants to own up to the hazmat dumping and pay those fines or claim the coins aren't from him and PAY THE WAGES AGAIN.

I like the way you think

Me too.

AlanStache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3733 on: March 30, 2021, 08:54:12 AM »
I just looked it up and in the US you can pay your federal taxes in cash at various gas and continent stations; if you showed up at 7-11 with a bucket of oil covered pennies to pay your 500$ tax bill (or to buy a cup of coffee) the clerk would tell you to pound sand.  Cash has utility for two reasons 1) we all agree to use it, 2) you can pay our taxes with it.  Oil covered pennies fail both those marks so I think you could make a case that he was not paid.  The point of money is to be a usable intermediate unit for exchange.  IANAL and all that...

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3734 on: March 30, 2021, 09:58:37 AM »
The last time I looked this up (it's been a while), the technicality was that US currency was to be accepted for all DEBTS. A store could refuse to take a wheelbarrow of pennies. A gas station...I suppose it would depend. Have you already pumped gas? If so, I guess they have to accept it (assuming it's not hazardous waste). It's become more and more common for stations to require you to prepay for fuel, so they could refuse your twenty rolls of pennies if they wanted (no debt = no requirement to accept legal currency as payment).

The employer had a debt to the employee in the amount of $500. I don't reckon there's any legal requirement to NOT pay in pennies. That said, if the employer clearly stated they don't remember dropping off $500 of pennies via a wheelbarrow full of oil, I too would assume that they in fact did not do so. Had they paid via check, they'd have a copy of the cancelled check. Direct deposit, they can get a printout from their bank showing that the wages were indeed paid to the employee. Wheelbarrow just left out front...um...if "I" were the owner of a business and was paying employees legal wages in cash...I'd at least have them sign off stating they got the correct amount of money. Did they at least pull an Amazon and take a photo of the wheelbarrow by the front door? If not...one can make the assumption that the two things are related (wheelbarrow full of pennies plus payment stub on top), but if the employer denies knowledge...I would immediately assume they are NOT related (because there's no way they would forget a mode of payment that far removed from the norm). It's possible that the employer had someone drop off the last paycheck in cash, in a nice sealed envelope. Someone else comes along interested in the wheelbarrow full of money, decides against stealing it when they realize it's covered in oil, but happily takes the envelope full of cash (discarding the paystub in the process). The employer has not ensured that the payment was received by the proper recipient, so they need to re-issue the payment, preferably via a method that can be traced better than cash.

That's my two (oil-free) cents.

LennStar

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3735 on: March 31, 2021, 04:15:10 AM »
I just looked it up and in the US you can pay your federal taxes in cash at various gas and continent stations; if you showed up at 7-11 with a bucket of oil covered pennies to pay your 500$ tax bill (or to buy a cup of coffee) the clerk would tell you to pound sand.  Cash has utility for two reasons 1) we all agree to use it, 2) you can pay our taxes with it.  Oil covered pennies fail both those marks so I think you could make a case that he was not paid.  The point of money is to be a usable intermediate unit for exchange.  IANAL and all that...

Actually 1) comes from 2)
That is how money came into existance: States (governments/kings) wanted to pay soldiers. But paying them in hens is a hassle and quite dirty. So they created money. But what should soldiers do with money if nobody wanted it?
So the kings decided that taxes had to be paid with money, turning their realms economy into a money-seeking society. Since only soldier had money, the economy turned into an army-supporting enterprise.

At least that is what archeoligists and ethnologists will tell you. Most economists will do a very different story.
And btw. don't try to tell that to those "government is always bad and we do money without them" guys.

grantmeaname

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3736 on: March 31, 2021, 06:00:12 AM »
yeah, that's totally false

Sibley

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3737 on: March 31, 2021, 10:44:32 AM »
I just looked it up and in the US you can pay your federal taxes in cash at various gas and continent stations; if you showed up at 7-11 with a bucket of oil covered pennies to pay your 500$ tax bill (or to buy a cup of coffee) the clerk would tell you to pound sand.  Cash has utility for two reasons 1) we all agree to use it, 2) you can pay our taxes with it.  Oil covered pennies fail both those marks so I think you could make a case that he was not paid.  The point of money is to be a usable intermediate unit for exchange.  IANAL and all that...

Actually 1) comes from 2)
That is how money came into existance: States (governments/kings) wanted to pay soldiers. But paying them in hens is a hassle and quite dirty. So they created money. But what should soldiers do with money if nobody wanted it?
So the kings decided that taxes had to be paid with money, turning their realms economy into a money-seeking society. Since only soldier had money, the economy turned into an army-supporting enterprise.

At least that is what archeoligists and ethnologists will tell you. Most economists will do a very different story.
And btw. don't try to tell that to those "government is always bad and we do money without them" guys.

I believe that it was far more complicated than that, but it was certainly part of it. There's ample evidence of societies that had both physical money (coins) and extensive bartering, and both were necessary and valuable parts of the system. And I am aware of instances where taxes, or equivalent to taxes, were paid with labor or goods. Lower classes may not have had money and existed purely on a barter system, while the upper classes did have coin, but that doesn't mean that barter wasn't important either.

As for the archaeologists vs economists - both are interesting and valuable, but they're not looking at things in the same way, or for the same things. It's a weakness. Society is not black and white, and when you try to view it that way you will likely come to the wrong conclusion. A holistic approach, which considers many needs and influences, is much better for a fuller understanding. Or at least as much as we're able to understand of a society that existed hundreds or thousands of years ago.

BicycleB

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3738 on: March 31, 2021, 02:59:13 PM »
I just looked it up and in the US you can pay your federal taxes in cash at various gas and continent stations
"Your federal taxes" meaning "federal tax on gasoline"? Or "your federal income tax"?

I've heard of convenience stores offering to cash tax refund checks. Is that what you mean?

I'm assuming "continent station" is typo for "convenience store".

dandarc

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3739 on: March 31, 2021, 03:14:19 PM »
You can pay your income taxes in cash at various retail stores around the country:

https://www.irs.gov/payments/pay-with-cash-at-a-retail-partner

simmias

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3740 on: March 31, 2021, 03:16:47 PM »
You guys tell the best Epic FU money stories!

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3741 on: March 31, 2021, 06:52:54 PM »
This is definitely my favorite thread on the MMM Forum.

BicycleB

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3742 on: March 31, 2021, 07:40:15 PM »
You can pay your income taxes in cash at various retail stores around the country:

https://www.irs.gov/payments/pay-with-cash-at-a-retail-partner

I did not know that! (Obviously.) Sorry for the hijack, ya'll. Here's a true story for your trouble.

ETA: Did I tell this one before?? Long ago I meant not to tell it, to maintain anonymity. After writing this, it occurred to me that I've gotten slack lately and may have told it - probably in this very thread! But I can't find it. Anyway, enjoy this telling of the tale.

***

Sometimes it doesn't take a lot of cash to say FU to an employer. Sometimes it just takes a conscience, or a couple months' pay in the bank. That was my situation when I took down a multimillion dollar securities fraud.

I didn't know at first that I was working for crooks. I was just an early 20something with no job who answered an ad for "unlimited pay, make your own hours", aka commission sales. The product in that pre-internet era was a buying club membership for home furnishings. They trained you to make this hour long scripted pitch from a flip book, face to face with a customer at their home, to explain how their $700 lifetime membership would save them thousands of dollars on all the furniture purchases they'd make for the rest of their lives. If they bit, they could visit the showroom forever, peruse paper catalogs, and order from All The Major Manufacturers at wholesale pricing, meaning 50% off retail catalog price (though they had to pay 10% service fee).

Not as crazy as it sounds now, depending on the customer's purchasing habits, because retail was stodgy then and plenty of people would get at least some savings from it over time. Still a tough sell, but I closed a few before giving up the ghost. By then the owners had recognized other talents in me, and I became the Accounts Payable Manager at the princely rate of $4.25/hour. Hey, it was 90 cents above minimum wage!

The original proposition was legit, I soon found, in that real customers who had bought memberships would come in and order stuff. They'd pick out $3200 of furniture and write a $1600 check, and their furniture would be shipped to the store, and they'd come pick it up. They were happy enough, the business did what it said, all good.

It took me a while to detect the flaw - because it wasn't in the core business. It was in the execution that the owners had slipped from legitimate creativity into dubious schemes and, eventually, trouble. At first they’d done great in volume of membership sales, raking in cash from memberships. In our rural area, it more than paid the cost of a nice showroom with a little warehouse in the back and couple of clerks. When sales slowed, they hired new people (like me) to beat the bushes, maybe sell a few friends. Then came the fatal brainstorm: financing.

$700 was a lot for a membership, so they arranged a credit line where the customer could just make monthly payments until the $700 was paid off. The owners got $700 up front in commissions and hired a "Finance Manager" to handle the paperwork. The lender got paid over time, everyone happy. Interest was an ungodly 24%, but once the dotted line was signed, who cared?

I think the trouble began when they realized how much money 24% was. Wanting a slice, they started putting out ads in local newspaper of our rural area offering high interest to individuals, so that they could use the borrowed money to finance the contracts. “High” for the individuals might be 10% - a lot better than a savings account, better than bonds even back then, but enough to leave the owners a fat 14% profit. Perhaps a legitimate deal there too. Creative, eh?

By the time I started, they’d fallen behind on paying suppliers, maybe by spending a little too much on motorcycles and flying lessons, which was why I was hired. “Managing” the accounts receivable turned out to mean persuading angry furniture makers to send us the customers’ furniture when we hadn’t paid for the last batch yet! Once I understood, I showed backbone by proposing a deal of my own. “I’ll get us off hold,” I told the owners, “but you have to give me the service fee to use against our back bills.” I didn’t mean me personally, I mean my department got the money to use for catching up. It took a month or two to get the hang of persuading the suppliers and getting actual shipments in, but it worked. Slowly but surely, I was working down the backlog, getting all the orders filled, reducing what we owed. Until I realized nobody was selling memberships any more.

I’d been one of the last people to sell any memberships. A few people tried after me, but failed as quickly as I had, and no else was starting. The owners weren’t selling any either. But in the newspaper, there were ads where they were borrowing money for new contracts. Where was the money going?

I started asking questions to the nice ol’ country lady at the front desk who’d been there for years. Yep, there were people coming in and depositing money for the financing. Little old ladies putting in tens of thousands of dollars sometimes. Were any memberships being sold? Haven’t seen any lately. Well if there’s no sales, how will they pay back the promissory notes to the little old ladies?

“I don’t know,” she replied. “What are you thinking?”

I gulped and finally said, Well, they’re not getting any money from my department because we’re just catching up. I guess someday the service fees would be something, but it doesn’t seem like enough to pay the whole business. Honestly, I think I need to write a letter to the state that they’re taking people’s money and probably can’t pay it back.

“Well, are you gonna write ‘em?”

If they’re able to pay it back, interrupting them would make the whole thing to fall apart, and actually cause them not to pay the little old ladies. Have they gone up and down in sales before, or just gradually sold less and less? Less and less, she said. Well, I probably better write the state. I’ve never done anything like this before, I guess it’ll take a few days.

“Keep me posted,” she said.

Shortly thereafter, the owners began a new sales campaign. Activity buzzed all around. I delayed my letter and told the lady. But then, after a few weeks, they ran out of energy. “I’m gonna have to write,” I finally said. “Keep me posted,” again.

Three days later, having written fifteen pages longhand at home in the evenings but not yet sent the letter, I looked up from my desk to see three huge dudes in blue uniforms at the showroom door. They were state police, and they wanted to see the Treasurer. Shortly thereafter, I arrived at work in the morning to find padlocks on the door. The owners were sentenced to sixteen months in state prison for securities fraud. As I understand it, the promissory notes they gave the individual lenders should have been registered as securities but weren't.

Eventually I realized how the cards collapsed. The clerk lady had told her buddy, the finance manager, that the jig was up. Figuring it was better to report than be one of the people charged, Finance Manager reported to the state. I don’t think the little old ladies were ever paid.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 10:42:39 PM by BicycleB »

SwordGuy

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3743 on: April 01, 2021, 06:09:43 AM »
So, here's an epic FU story I just remembered.

Back in the 1980s or 90s a dear friend of mine worked for a factory in Texas.   The management of the firm got a brilliant idea from the good idea fairy and implemented it in secret.

They were going to cut their labor costs big time!

Basically, everyone came to work Monday morning to discover they no longer worked for the company.   The company had hired an employee leasing firm to provide employees for them, so now they worked for this employee leasing firm -- for less pay and benefits.

Three fourths of the employees at the factory walked off the job that morning and didn't come back.
 

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3744 on: April 01, 2021, 11:36:47 AM »
More of a funny exit than an FU story...

A friend is retiring from the navy after 20 years and they do exit counseling to help people transition to civilian life. Coordinating this for others has been his job for the last couple of years so he knows system.

He just sent me this summary of today's remote session.

It took an hour to introduce ourselves because none of the 20 people could figure out their mic or video or they were distracted when their turn came - even though we went alphabetically down the roster on the left side of the screen... Please introduce yourself and tell us using nonnavy terms what you do now and what you will do when you are out.

His answer:
I’m _____ I herd deaf cats with a squirt gun and plan to continue that when I get out by transitioning to be a stay at home dad.

mm1970

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3745 on: April 01, 2021, 11:42:47 AM »
So, here's an epic FU story I just remembered.

Back in the 1980s or 90s a dear friend of mine worked for a factory in Texas.   The management of the firm got a brilliant idea from the good idea fairy and implemented it in secret.

They were going to cut their labor costs big time!

Basically, everyone came to work Monday morning to discover they no longer worked for the company.   The company had hired an employee leasing firm to provide employees for them, so now they worked for this employee leasing firm -- for less pay and benefits.

Three fourths of the employees at the factory walked off the job that morning and didn't come back.
 
This is pretty glorious

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3746 on: April 01, 2021, 11:45:05 AM »
What happened to the factory?  I would hope something horrible, but I suspect probably a few days lost productivity until they staffed back up again?

It's sad the amount of bullshit that wouldn't happen if everyone just had some FU money and didn't put up with it.  Or maybe there'd be way more bullshit because some people would just be assholes w/ their FU money?

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3747 on: April 01, 2021, 11:56:06 AM »
It's 1000% them fishing for people who'll feel bad and pick up the slack, not wanting to use political points with other C suites if they don't have to, not $.
I'm baffled by this. Why does it cost anyone political points to fill a staffing need?  Can't someone just say to whoever has the authority, "Swashbucklinstache would be a great fit to lead tasks X, y, and Z, so I propose we offer her $300k and the title Chief Sub-Panjandrum if she will accept those responsibilities"?
You're not wrong, it isn't at all rational. Life and times of a consultancy though at this level. Asking for anything at all from another group, HR to literally do their job in this case, requires a political trade-off. It also requires the C suit to spend 10 consecutive minutes focusing on the division they run instead of how they can get promoted or an extra half percent on their bonus, (or actual more important things, to be fair) which probably explains the 9 month wait time. We bill our time in 6 minute increments and our company #2 starts her day by reviewing yesterday's numbers...

Not a surprise FI is on the mind, nor that more sanely run startups are eating our lunch.
Well, another week goes by. Through three relevant meetings I've heard:
A) separately, HR might make everyone doing your current role equal to your role, even for people doing versions 10% as complicated (roles I groomed them into and gave away 5+ years and 3 promotions ago)
B) in plans and meetings I've heard you're being put down as doing & owning the new roles, with the old people in as backup
C) we just did annual goals so I'm sure taking these roles was in yours
D) has this gone so far that you're just doing this now? I don't think we'll get any backing from (c suit requesting it who oversees these roles) on anything related to this but let me know if you need anything and I can try my best.

I did my boss a favor and let him know that under no circumstances will I be accepting these roles without title and compensation addressed, in line with my latest email from fall 2020, and that if I'm in any meeting where someone describes me as "role X lead" I will be speaking up to correct them regardless of who is in attendance.

Happy Monday everyone.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3748 on: April 01, 2021, 12:15:59 PM »
I did my boss a favor and let him know that under no circumstances will I be accepting these roles without title and compensation addressed, in line with my latest email from fall 2020, and that if I'm in any meeting where someone describes me as "role X lead" I will be speaking up to correct them regardless of who is in attendance.

Niiiiice, what was his reply?

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Epic FU money stories
« Reply #3749 on: April 01, 2021, 12:39:44 PM »
I did my boss a favor and let him know that under no circumstances will I be accepting these roles without title and compensation addressed, in line with my latest email from fall 2020, and that if I'm in any meeting where someone describes me as "role X lead" I will be speaking up to correct them regardless of who is in attendance.

Niiiiice, what was his reply?
He said he'll take it to the C suit. 37th time's the charm, here's hoping.

Soon enough there'll be a day of reckoning when the internal client stops getting their needs met. I hope my boss is CYAing appropriately...