Author Topic: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!  (Read 61492 times)

rantk81

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #100 on: March 22, 2016, 08:50:05 AM »
A data point:

I was born in '81, so I think I might be either one of the first crop of millennials, or part of "Oregon Trail" :)

I graduated from university, and got my first job in '04, starting at 48K/yr.

After some promotions, some annual raises, and once complaining about low compensation relative to my peers when I was performing better/more work, I'm still at the same company (well, basically the same, after the various mergers), and making nearly 140K/yr now.


TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #101 on: March 22, 2016, 09:41:54 AM »
I didn't want to be a lazy snake person, so I looked to the oldest people in the office for a model of how to behave.

1.  Phone it in everyday, you're almost to retirement and it isn't like your pay is going up much these last few years.
2.  Take lots of sick time.  It's only natural, you never really took care of yourself so it's OK to just not show up.
3.  Roll your eyes whenever the pension/401k/other retirement gets cut for all new hires, you're grandfathered in (saving on my own) so it doesn't actually matter.
4.  Blame others for your lack of productivity.  If only they would have shown you how to use the new program, you'd have completed your work on time.
5.  Come in super early so you can drink coffee/read the paper/chit-chat with others, claim you came in even earlier, and then leave at 3:30 every day after dumping 4-5 hours of work on the snake person's desk.

Etc.

Some snake people aren't very good employees.  Fixed that for you.

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #102 on: March 22, 2016, 09:46:37 AM »
That browser extension really is fun.  Is there one that changes liberal and conservative to asshole?  Cuz that would be great.

"The traditional asshole approach has been to make us pay for it, but assholes argue that isn't really fair." -politics

zephyr911

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #103 on: March 22, 2016, 09:57:49 AM »
That browser extension really is fun.  Is there one that changes liberal and conservative to asshole?  Cuz that would be great.

"The traditional asshole approach has been to make us pay for it, but assholes argue that isn't really fair." -politics
I'd prefer they at least get different insults, so I can differentiate the two.

Chris22

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #104 on: March 22, 2016, 10:16:36 AM »
I didn't want to be a lazy snake person, so I looked to the oldest people in the office for a model of how to behave.

1.  Phone it in everyday, you're almost to retirement and it isn't like your pay is going up much these last few years.
2.  Take lots of sick time.  It's only natural, you never really took care of yourself so it's OK to just not show up.
3.  Roll your eyes whenever the pension/401k/other retirement gets cut for all new hires, you're grandfathered in (saving on my own) so it doesn't actually matter.
4.  Blame others for your lack of productivity.  If only they would have shown you how to use the new program, you'd have completed your work on time.
5.  Come in super early so you can drink coffee/read the paper/chit-chat with others, claim you came in even earlier, and then leave at 3:30 every day after dumping 4-5 hours of work on the snake person's desk.

Etc.

Some snake people aren't very good employees.  Fixed that for you.

Don't forget

6.  Recoil in horror and disgust if someone suggests you do something even slightly outside of your immediate job description.

7.  Shoot down all potential changes to processes, work flows, policies, etc, with "well, we've never done it that way, but if you want to try, go right ahead but you're on your own."

BlueHouse

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #105 on: March 22, 2016, 10:32:14 AM »
7.  Shoot down all potential changes to processes, work flows, policies, etc, with "well, we've never done it that way, but if you want to try, go right ahead but you're on your own."
oh gosh, I'm one of those now.  It's not that I want to shoot down all the process changes, it's that in many cases, I fought and lost that battle multiple times already with the same ideas, the same people, and I've given up.  Yes, in my twenties, I would have kept being angry, arguing about it after work with my friends, and thinking that those old people just don't get it.  In my forties, I simply decided I don't need to make myself angry about it anymore.  Yep, it would probably be better the other way, but it hasn't happened yet, and I'm tired, JUST TIRED, of fighting the system ALL THE TIME.
Funny thing is, that I get hired to come into work forces and improve processes and set up systems.  I change what I can and improve what I can, but there are some that will not change in my lifetime.  I'm being realistic about it, and when I run out of other things to improve, then I guess I'll just move on.   

rantk81

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2016, 12:20:06 PM »
7.  Shoot down all potential changes to processes, work flows, policies, etc, with "well, we've never done it that way, but if you want to try, go right ahead but you're on your own."
oh gosh, I'm one of those now.  It's not that I want to shoot down all the process changes, it's that in many cases, I fought and lost that battle multiple times already with the same ideas, the same people, and I've given up.  Yes, in my twenties, I would have kept being angry, arguing about it after work with my friends, and thinking that those old people just don't get it.  In my forties, I simply decided I don't need to make myself angry about it anymore.  Yep, it would probably be better the other way, but it hasn't happened yet, and I'm tired, JUST TIRED, of fighting the system ALL THE TIME.
Funny thing is, that I get hired to come into work forces and improve processes and set up systems.  I change what I can and improve what I can, but there are some that will not change in my lifetime.  I'm being realistic about it, and when I run out of other things to improve, then I guess I'll just move on.   

YES YES YES!

I'm in my mid-30s and I already feel EXACTLY the same way.
You can only endure so much of people immediately dismissing your good ideas, before you become completely apathetic and indifferent.  That's where I am at now with my place of employment.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2016, 12:33:08 PM »

I regularly work 60-70+ hour weeks.  The only reward I get is more work.  I get good work reviews, but the company at corporate level has decided to take away our 401(k) matching funds.

Meanwhile, we have certain other employees who don't work nearly as hard as I do, and they get paid more than I do.  I feel like I'm doing something wrong.  Working harder is obviously not the answer.

My experience in corporate America is that it's not hard work that gets rewarded.  It's bringing in money that gets rewarded.  So sales and marketing guys bring in the bucks while the engineers just get more work.

I am not a Millennial, but I understand where they are coming from.  Lately I've decided to find a new job because I'm tired of all the work. 

EDIT:  I need to learn how to spell.

Tigerpine, there's lots of good money out there for engineers too.  Some jobs even expect 40 hours not 60... though that's more often Agile teams in software engineering.  You have to look around, but there's a lot of good jobs.  Good luck in your search!

Also, good logo.

Jouer

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #108 on: March 22, 2016, 02:07:45 PM »
uhm....Millenials didn't invent job hopping. I'm Gen-X: worked for 6 companies in 16 years. All moves for promotions and/or more money. Most moves happened because someone from my network asked me to come work for them. This is not lazy or disloyal. Likewise, we should not label Millenials in this way when they look to better their situation.

Millenials: we Gen-Xers heard this same shit 20 years ago. It'll go away when the next "scary" group comes around. 

Tigerpine

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #109 on: March 22, 2016, 06:53:49 PM »

I regularly work 60-70+ hour weeks.  The only reward I get is more work.  I get good work reviews, but the company at corporate level has decided to take away our 401(k) matching funds.

Meanwhile, we have certain other employees who don't work nearly as hard as I do, and they get paid more than I do.  I feel like I'm doing something wrong.  Working harder is obviously not the answer.

My experience in corporate America is that it's not hard work that gets rewarded.  It's bringing in money that gets rewarded.  So sales and marketing guys bring in the bucks while the engineers just get more work.

I am not a Millennial, but I understand where they are coming from.  Lately I've decided to find a new job because I'm tired of all the work. 

EDIT:  I need to learn how to spell.

Tigerpine, there's lots of good money out there for engineers too.  Some jobs even expect 40 hours not 60... though that's more often Agile teams in software engineering.  You have to look around, but there's a lot of good jobs.  Good luck in your search!

Also, good logo.

Thanks, and thanks!  :)

ImCheap

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #110 on: March 23, 2016, 09:36:13 AM »
uhm....Millenials didn't invent job hopping. I'm Gen-X: worked for 6 companies in 16 years. All moves for promotions and/or more money. Most moves happened because someone from my network asked me to come work for them. This is not lazy or disloyal. Likewise, we should not label Millenials in this way when they look to better their situation.

Millenials: we Gen-Xers heard this same shit 20 years ago. It'll go away when the next "scary" group comes around.

Ah so true! What's old is new, or something like that! Being a Gen-Xer I feel very strongly both ways.

 

powskier

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #111 on: March 27, 2016, 11:52:24 AM »
Old people: "kill the young"
Young people: "kill the old"

Don't worry snake people, in a few years you'll get to complain about those darn kids too. In reality you will be jealous of some of their habits and distressed about others. It has always been thus.

bzzzt

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #112 on: March 27, 2016, 08:35:49 PM »
Quote
Companies overwhelmingly treat people like cogs and interchangeable, disposable pieces. People seem to want to blame millennials for figuring this all out and acting accordingly.

+1

Seriously. I watched my father, who worked hard his entire life, lose his position at a mid-sized corporation at 53. When he found another position with another company two years later, he took a substantial pay cut.

I figure I have to be able to retire by 50 at the latest because I want to safeguard against that happening to me. My paradigm has been shaped by what happened to my father and a lot of other people like him.

Never thought of my self as a millenial until these articles started grouping me in with them. I'm 32.

I agree with both these quoted posts. I'm an hourly employee and my employer has a $1M+ project starting in May that the customer has stipulated that only my co-worker and I are allowed to do (so they can't pull the interchangeable cog bullshit) but now they don't have any work for us for the next month.

So, we get a one month, unpaid vacation and then we start the project. This is our reward for running a project at a 50+% profit margin for 3 years. If management is too short sighted to keep their cash cows busy, I guess this one is going to take some overtime to get done...

I'm also planning on being able to retire by 50 at the latest because older employees are typically seen as too slow/not as productive as younger workers in construction. That thinking bites them in the ass when they need to draw on the experience of older workers, but I'm just another cog...

MrsPete

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #113 on: March 27, 2016, 08:48:54 PM »
There really are some significant differences.  If you grow up with a cell phone in one hand and having instant access to any information and many services, you are just different than me, who grew up without those things.  I'm seeing more and more of these differences ever since my nephew has been living with me.  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so much.
Yeah, I see this with my high school students.  Information is so easy for them to find ... so they don't put effort into really listening or remembering -- after all, it's so easy to pick it up again.  And as a result, it seems that their knowledge is more superficial than that of older generations, and they don't understand that.  Yeah, they can pull up facts super-fast, but can they fit those facts into an educated world view?  Not so much for many of my students. 

I think the defining difference is not the "millennial" thing but how ubiquitous computers/technology was in your childhood.

People who are in their early 30s did not grow up with computers from their early childhood. But move that back 5-10 years? Very different childhood experiences, with respect to computing.
Thought 1:  Whether you grew up with a computer or not definitely makes a difference.  Thinking of my students again, they're all Millenials in terms of age, but the top 25% are fantastic with computers.  They genuinely understand them and can make technology work for them.  On the other hand, the bottom 25% are clueless.  They're users of technology, but they don't really understand it; for example, when they save a piece of work they've completed in class today, they can't find it tomorrow -- when asked where they saved it, they don't understand that you can save to different places.  They don't know how to send emails.  They are baffled by the idea of submitting a paper electronically.  They can't troubleshoot.  They are consumers of technology but not users of technology.  And the middle 50% falls somewhere in the middle of these two groups -- they're not real manipulators of technology, nor are they complete idiots. 

And if you ask these kids whether they have computers at home, the trend is easy to see:  The real users have had computers from a young age; their parents gave them age-appropriate computer games when they were toddlers.  They've learned.  On the other hand, the lower group has grown up with sketchy computer usage at most, and they don't grasp that their phones ARE computers.  They claim they hate computers, can't understand computers ... in the same way kids say they hate math and can't understand math.

Thought 2, which seems to conflict with the above:  Those of us who didn't grow up with computers aren't lost -- and neither are my above-mentioned students; they just aren't putting in the effort.  I finished my first college degree before I ever used a computer, but today I teach a technology class in high school and next year I'll be teaching that same class plus two online classes.  So never think that a person who didn't grow up with today's technology is incapable of learning these things -- it's not really rocket science, but you have to realize that it's important. 

The millennials represent a sea change, politically, for this country.  And they have much different core values than the Boomers, in particular.  These 2 facts make a lot of (conservative) people very, very uncomfortable.  So they make fun of the millennials at every opportunity, because they fear the inevitable change they represent. 
No, while the M. generation is different, people are still people.  I don't think my students' core values are all that different, and I know my children's values are almost identical to mine.  The one issue that seems to be age-divided is the attitude towards gay marriage/rights/etc.  But on other big topics like religion and politics, I don't see significant changes, though I do see more outspokenness.  The other thing I see among the Millennials is a huge increase in the number of people -- mostly girls -- who have problems with Anxiety; and I can see a number of reasons why this might be true.  The other thing I see on this board -- much more strongly than other places -- is that Millennials have very thin skin.  That is, they can't see their own faults and are quick to blame others for their own shortcomings. 

But no, you're not making older people nervous.  That's just silly.

As another poster said, I think it's funny when boomers complain about the millennials, when they're the ones that created all the special snowflakes :).
See, that's a good example:  Millennials hear a discussion about their generation and think it's a complaint -- or a personal attack on them.  Thin skin. 

I'm pretty sure Gen Xers were the first generation written about in the media who took this mentality.
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet, but it's significant:  Gen X has been written about MUCH MORE than any generation in history.  This has given the group a group mentality in a way that previous generations haven't had. 

I have one millennial under my roof, at the end the millennial age bracket. One thing I noticed with this kid and most of his classmates they don't really care about fancy cars, a $3,000 clunker is just fine if they even have a car at all. A big old house is of no importance, they just don't care about most material things.
I'd say yes and no ... Millennials care less about name brand clothes than my generation, but they consider it acceptable, ordinary, expected to spend frivolously on going out to eat, picking up expensive coffees, etc.  They expect to own the newest tech and unlimited data plans.  No, I don't see the Millennials as any less into material things -- they've just shifted the spending to different targets. 

It's not millenials that came up with work smart, not hard.
Lots of disagreement here about work -- this won't be resolved for several reasons:  Jobs aren't all the same.  I'm in a job that rewards people for staying; has nothing to do with my birth year -- people ten years younger than me are following the same career path I'm following; it's the smart choice for our profession.  Other jobs reward people for job-hopping. 

The one thing that is absolutely true is that no matter who you are:  It takes a while of slaving away before you start to feel successful, and most of the Millennial group is still too young to have made it past their entry-level jobs, so for a whole lot of people, what they're whining about is their own youth:  My husband and I both graduated from college in our early 20s, married around 25, and we had NO MONEY for the first three years -- but we saved.  About the time we turned 30 -- and it seemed to happen all of a sudden -- we were comfortable financially.  We were able to live more comfortably and increase our savings, but it was because we'd passed those first difficult years.  We always had the sense that we'd "get there", and because we were so frugal in our first married years. 

Old people: "kill the young"
Young people: "kill the old"

Don't worry snake people, in a few years you'll get to complain about those darn kids too. In reality you will be jealous of some of their habits and distressed about others. It has always been thus.
I don't see this attitude in my workplace.  Everyone likes one another -- and our circumstances are such that it could be otherwise.  The younger teachers are receiving raises, raises, raises, and the people my age are saying, "Good for you.  We wish we were getting a piece of the pie as well, but you aren't the ones to blame."  Likewise, they are facing a very uncertain future, and they have fewer legal rights than we older workers (yeah, we're grandfathered in), but the younger workers don't blame us for changing times.  No one wants to kill one another because of age /generation. 

LeRainDrop

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #114 on: March 27, 2016, 10:36:56 PM »
uhm....Millenials didn't invent job hopping. I'm Gen-X: worked for 6 companies in 16 years. All moves for promotions and/or more money. Most moves happened because someone from my network asked me to come work for them. This is not lazy or disloyal. Likewise, we should not label Millenials in this way when they look to better their situation.

Millenials: we Gen-Xers heard this same shit 20 years ago. It'll go away when the next "scary" group comes around.

Ah so true! What's old is new, or something like that! Being a Gen-Xer I feel very strongly both ways.

We just had an incredibly interesting presentation at work about "generational diversity in the workplace."  The presenter agreed with this -- essentially, as each generation enters the workforce, they get some sort of bad name from the reigning generation:  Boomers = Hippies / Gen X = Slackers / Millenials = Entitled.  Cusp babies have characteristics from both surrounding generations.  Being born in 1981, of the Oregon Trial generation, I guess I am an entitled slacker -- whatever ;-)

MilesTeg

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #115 on: March 27, 2016, 11:38:30 PM »
6.  Recoil in horror and disgust if someone suggests you do something even slightly outside of your immediate job description.

As someone who blithely takes on new responsibilities at work: refusing to volunteer to do things that are not in your job description is pretty much the only way to avoid getting abused by your employer.

It's also a good way to get stretched so thin that your actual job performance/review looks bad and gets you canned.

Elliot

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #116 on: March 28, 2016, 05:42:42 AM »
Yeah, I see this with my high school students.  Information is so easy for them to find ... so they don't put effort into really listening or remembering -- after all, it's so easy to pick it up again.  And as a result, it seems that their knowledge is more superficial than that of older generations, and they don't understand that.  Yeah, they can pull up facts super-fast, but can they fit those facts into an educated world view?  Not so much for many of my students. 
 childhood experiences, with respect to computing.

Lol forever that you think most HS student of any gen have sophisticated worldviews

ender

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #117 on: March 28, 2016, 07:00:00 PM »
Quote
Companies overwhelmingly treat people like cogs and interchangeable, disposable pieces. People seem to want to blame millennials for figuring this all out and acting accordingly.

+1

Seriously. I watched my father, who worked hard his entire life, lose his position at a mid-sized corporation at 53. When he found another position with another company two years later, he took a substantial pay cut.

I figure I have to be able to retire by 50 at the latest because I want to safeguard against that happening to me. My paradigm has been shaped by what happened to my father and a lot of other people like him.

Yeah.

I worked with someone in tech who was probably in his 40s and basically was working on buying rental property (in cash apparently) with his wife because they figured that agism would basically screw him over at some point.

Yaeger

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #118 on: March 28, 2016, 08:12:21 PM »
Is it bullshit though? There's compelling evidence to suggest that it's not, including our youth falling further behind internationally despite spending more than any other country on K-12 education per student. It's more than just anecdotal evidence from the older generations.

Despite having the highest levels of educational attainment of any previous American generation, these young adults on average demonstrate relatively weak skills in literacy, numeracy, and problem solving in technology-rich environments compared to their international peers. These findings hold true when looking at millennials overall, our best performing and most educated, those who are native born, and those from the highest socioeconomic background. Equally troubling is that these findings represent a decrease in literacy and numeracy skills for U.S. adults when compared with results from previous adult surveys.

http://www.ets.org/s/research/30079/index.html

Inaya

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #119 on: March 28, 2016, 10:56:46 PM »
The only problem I see with millennials is that they job hop constantly.

At work its like "yay finally another person below 30!" and then the person leaves 3 months later. The only way they stay is if they have a baby depending on them, or some millenials that just have a boomer type of mindset.. This has happens several times a year on my team.  They always hire them as contractors so they can leave easily. I would probably do the same, however, if I was a contractor and had no un-vested retirement benefits to lose.
That may be a problem for you, but its a necessary evil for millennials.
I am a millennial, and every job I've gotten since graduation has been temporary, either because it was dependent on funding/legislative approval, or because it was designed that way. Your post makes it sound like the company was forced to stop offering regular full-time-with-benefits positions in favor of temp contract positions because the millennials were leaving, but the truth is that companies are moving to temp positions because that means that they don't have to pay benefits and they can fire you easily when the contract's up. And millennials are still breaking down the door for them because they're the only jobs out there. I would leave almost any temporary position for almost any permanent position (reasonably comparable positions, obviously).

This. Companies want to get out of paying benefits via the "contract to hire" scam. The "to hire" part mysteriously never happens, no matter how hard you work or how glowing your reviews.

I left my last one for a permanent position and 100% raise--a month after I left, every contractor was laid off; dodged that bullet. The  job before that decided "we'd love to hire you, but it's just not in the budget" the moment I finished the large project I was working on. Before that, 2.5 years in the same position that "hired" me as a full-time "temp" with no benefits--it was my first job out of school, and I was thankful just to be employed following graduation, but then nobody else would hire me because I didn't have 5-10 years' experience.

I'm an "Oregon Trail" snake person, by the way. America Online came to my house when I was maybe 8 or 9. I

There aren't many full-time permanent positions for the "less than 5-10 years of experience" crowd. Until we get that precious first 5 years, we're forced to take a new contract-to-hire gig every time a company decides we're too expensive,

Goldielocks

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #120 on: March 28, 2016, 11:13:46 PM »
I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

I agree that 90% of what is attributed to Millenials, is actually just "20 somethings"....   normal behaviour, etc.

One area that is very different is the willingness to bash the employer on social media, and / or other anonymous review locations.   Social media is such a new phenomenon, in the past you NEVER put anything into print that you would not say to your boss or best client, or face firing.   Anonymous posts in the lunchroom were called "vandalism".

babysnowbyrd

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #121 on: March 29, 2016, 01:32:01 AM »
Friend of mine posted this today:


Yaeger

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #122 on: March 29, 2016, 02:37:29 AM »
Friend of mine posted this today:



I think that's a dangerous, naive attitude to have that can only lead to bad outcomes. It's a classic example of a good idea in no way connected with reality or any other field of study. Hell, even economists who specialize in this field have never uttered anything so absurd.

It is a fact that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. He made this quote in 1970 and yet 9,999 of us are still waiting for the one person to support us. To grow my food, make my clothing, heat my home, etc you'd figure it'd have happened in the 46 years since. I'm going to put this into the same category as the flying cars of the 2000's as it's historically in no way limited to the nativity of us millennials.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #123 on: March 29, 2016, 06:47:23 AM »
In most developed countries 1% are employed in agriculture, 100 years ago it was probably 25% and 200 years ago, before the industrial revolution, it was 90%. Yet we still manage to get fed.  We still also have school years that are based around having a long holiday so the children can help with the harvest - but that's just an example of how fast we adapt to changing technology!

At a guess - 50% of US (and Eu, Canada, etc) employment is unnecessary in terms of supplying basic needs of society.
If you work in an office, think how much of your day is actually "productive". Even if you are a software engineer (the desk equivalent of the assembly line), and you work for a large corporation - I bet it's less than 50%.

MMMarbleheader

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #124 on: March 29, 2016, 07:56:15 AM »
I am a Millennial.

My wife and I often discuss how we have much more in common with our grandparents than parents. My grandparents were old school in their view of hard work, but they were not corpratists/careerists like our parents. My wife, like our grandmothers stays at home with our kids, we live in a small house, have one car, budget, save, Sunday dinners.

Our parents? Debt, big houses, borrowed cars, still trying to find themselves, etc. Even at our local Catholic Church it is always the young/old vs. the Boomers when it comes to traditional vs. contemporary worship.

One thing to note, most of this "return to the simple life" is with our educated friends. The friends who didn't go to college are much more like our parents.

I think the boomers at work struggle to understand this. No, I am not going to travel for a week to do some presentations and leave my family home. Saw my parents do that and their friends, also saw their divorces. No thanks.My goals in life are not to get my Rolex, BMW, and corner office. 

As it related to jobs, I am on my 3rd since graduating 5 years ago. However, I did luck out and landed at a "company for life" type place and not in a corpratist sense. The company only started hiring experienced hires 10 years ago, before that it was full of people who started there day 1. It is the top of the industry so there was little turnover.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 08:06:03 AM by MMMarbleheader »

BuzzardsBay

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #125 on: March 29, 2016, 10:44:37 AM »
The last two Millenials we hired at work had to be let go.  The first one brought home all of his employment paperwork: W-4, I-9, Direct Deposit Form, etc. and had his Mom fill it out.  Then he missed the health insurance sign up because he forgot to give his Mom the paperwork.  He was let go for never completing his work.  I think he would have done better if he had brought his Mom to the office with him.

The second one would constantly walk outside to take personal calls on his cell phone throughout the day. As he walked through the office you could hear him saying to whomever called "No.  It's ok.  I'm just at work.  What's up?"  He would also just get up an leave for the day whenever he wanted to.  Sometimes half an hour early.  Sometimes an hour.  Once he said to his Supervisor "I have some stuff to do.  See you tomorrow" as he walked out.  One day he showed up an hour late and when his Supervisor questioned him about it he said he slept through his alarm because he was out late the night before at a football party.  Really?  Who does that?

I know they're not all like that.  But we haven't hired any since then.

MrsPete

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #126 on: March 29, 2016, 10:48:40 AM »
Lol forever that you think most HS student of any gen have sophisticated worldviews
Kudos on throwing in the word sophisticated to alter the gist of my comment, but, yeah, over the years I've known quite a few kids who have a pretty good world view.  That is, they have a sense of history, are aware of history and current events and are concerned for others beyond their own circle.  Thing is, they're becoming fewer in number. 

why aren't they more curious as to the why and how?!
That's a good observation.  My students today have less curiosity, less interest in how and why -- and more expectation that they'll be entertained.  That has technology-from-birth written all over it. 

Is it bullshit though? There's compelling evidence to suggest that it's not, including our youth falling further behind internationally despite spending more than any other country on K-12 education per student. It's more than just anecdotal evidence from the older generations.
Yeah, as a teacher nearing the end of my career, I don't need research to prove that to me.  Many of my students today know less, read less, read more poorly, and are less willing to put in effort -- yet they fully expect to choose top-of-society jobs such as neurosurgeon or orthodontist.  They fully expect that their minimal effort will somehow yield maximum reward.  They genuinely think that with a 1.9 high school GPA they can go to a good school and succeed.

However, on the other end of the spectrum, our top students really are far ahead of where my generation was at 17,18,19.  Thing is, I'm talking about 10% of them, yet they ALL think they're top 10%. 

There aren't many full-time permanent positions for the "less than 5-10 years of experience" crowd. Until we get that precious first 5 years, we're forced to take a new contract-to-hire gig every time a company decides we're too expensive,
I suspect it depends upon your field.  My daughter will graduate from college in May.  She has a job waiting, as do most of her classmates.  In fact, she had her choice of jobs. 

One area that is very different is the willingness to bash the employer on social media, and / or other anonymous review locations.   Social media is such a new phenomenon, in the past you NEVER put anything into print that you would not say to your boss or best client, or face firing.   Anonymous posts in the lunchroom were called "vandalism".
Very valid point.  What people used to complain /whine about within their circle of friends is now "out there" for the world to see. 

I think that's a dangerous, naive attitude to have that can only lead to bad outcomes. It's a classic example of a good idea in no way connected with reality or any other field of study. Hell, even economists who specialize in this field have never uttered anything so absurd.
He's sure to vote for Bernie Sanders. 

« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 10:54:05 AM by MrsPete »

Gondolin

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #127 on: March 29, 2016, 11:55:15 AM »
Quote
Hell, even economists who specialize in this field have never uttered anything so absurd

Umm...Fuller is making a point about technological unemployment that has been debated by economists since the creation of the discipline and by humans since the invention of the wheel.

Fuller treats this possibility as positive. You may disagree but, don't act like the removal of the need for human labor by the advance of technology is some kind of wild notion.

afuera

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #128 on: March 29, 2016, 12:37:04 PM »
I'm a snake person. 
I worked my ass off in college and graduated top of my class.  I see my job as adequate compensation for this.
Now that I'm working, I still work my ass off. My company has given me a substantial raises as well as great benefits and 401K matching which I see as adequate compensation. 
I typically don't work more than 40 hrs a week but sometimes I do and it is noticed and appreciated.  After a few months of working on a particularly stressful/time consuming project, my supervisor gave me a one time "nice job! Keep it up" bonus.
I plan on staying with this company until I retire, which is less than 10 years but that's why were all here right ;).  I'm sure if more companies treated their employees like mine treats me, there would be less job hopping and more employee loyalty.  Regardless, if there is ever a point where I don't feel I'm being adequately compensated for my work, I'll start looking elsewhere because why work hard for someone who won't appreciate it if others will?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 12:41:47 PM by trappedinmyoffice »

randymarsh

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #129 on: March 29, 2016, 12:41:03 PM »
But as soon as I don't feel like I am being adequately compensated for my work, i'll look somewhere else.

Be careful, you're starting to sound like one of those entitled millennials! ;-)

remington50

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Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #130 on: March 29, 2016, 02:13:48 PM »
The difference between millennialis and the previous generations is that those of us in the millieal age bracket didn't get this lesson:

http://youtu.be/j7leQB_Oe_k

A few of us did, but the rest? They believe they can. And it is sad.


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bennycx

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #131 on: March 29, 2016, 02:44:45 PM »

arebelspy

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #132 on: April 03, 2016, 02:59:14 PM »
The difference between millennialis and the previous generations is that those of us in the millieal age bracket didn't get this lesson:

http://youtu.be/j7leQB_Oe_k

A few of us did, but the rest? They believe they can. And it is sad.

Eh, I don't know.

It seems to me I can always get what I want.

In fact, it has become quite popular in the last decade to note something roughly like the following:
"We were told we could be anything we wanted to be, but now we're finding out that's not true."

I find it more and more true as time passes, however.

YMMV.

(Disclaimer: I'm a snake person, solidly in the snake people category, being aged 30 as of this post.)

I don't think millennials think that more than any other generation, though.  You seem to have bought into the popular "millennials think they're special snowflakes" cliche.

Millennials are people.  That's it.  They're young people, right now, and do what young people do.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
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LeRainDrop

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #133 on: April 03, 2016, 05:08:21 PM »
I don't think millennials think that more than any other generation, though.  You seem to have bought into the popular "millennials think they're special snowflakes" cliche.

Millennials are people.  That's it.  They're young people, right now, and do what young people do.

Yep, I agree.  I keep going back to the idea that each generation, as it enters the workforce or comes of age, gets a bad rep from the prior generation:

We just had an incredibly interesting presentation at work about "generational diversity in the workplace."  The presenter agreed with this -- essentially, as each generation enters the workforce, they get some sort of bad name from the reigning generation:  Boomers = Hippies / Gen X = Slackers / Millenials = Entitled.  Cusp babies have characteristics from both surrounding generations.  Being born in 1981, of the Oregon Trial generation, I guess I am an entitled slacker -- whatever ;-)

FIRE_Buckeye

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #134 on: April 03, 2016, 07:45:26 PM »
The last two Millenials we hired at work had to be let go.  The first one brought home all of his employment paperwork: W-4, I-9, Direct Deposit Form, etc. and had his Mom fill it out.  Then he missed the health insurance sign up because he forgot to give his Mom the paperwork.  He was let go for never completing his work.  I think he would have done better if he had brought his Mom to the office with him.

The second one would constantly walk outside to take personal calls on his cell phone throughout the day. As he walked through the office you could hear him saying to whomever called "No.  It's ok.  I'm just at work.  What's up?"  He would also just get up an leave for the day whenever he wanted to.  Sometimes half an hour early.  Sometimes an hour.  Once he said to his Supervisor "I have some stuff to do.  See you tomorrow" as he walked out.  One day he showed up an hour late and when his Supervisor questioned him about it he said he slept through his alarm because he was out late the night before at a football party.  Really?  Who does that?

I know they're not all like that.  But we haven't hired any since then.
Sounds like the biggest thing your company needs is a better hiring manager/hiring team, rather than less millennials.

Kitsune

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #135 on: April 04, 2016, 06:32:47 PM »
The last two Millenials we hired at work had to be let go.  The first one brought home all of his employment paperwork: W-4, I-9, Direct Deposit Form, etc. and had his Mom fill it out.  Then he missed the health insurance sign up because he forgot to give his Mom the paperwork.  He was let go for never completing his work.  I think he would have done better if he had brought his Mom to the office with him.

The second one would constantly walk outside to take personal calls on his cell phone throughout the day. As he walked through the office you could hear him saying to whomever called "No.  It's ok.  I'm just at work.  What's up?"  He would also just get up an leave for the day whenever he wanted to.  Sometimes half an hour early.  Sometimes an hour.  Once he said to his Supervisor "I have some stuff to do.  See you tomorrow" as he walked out.  One day he showed up an hour late and when his Supervisor questioned him about it he said he slept through his alarm because he was out late the night before at a football party.  Really?  Who does that?

I know they're not all like that.  But we haven't hired any since then.
Sounds like the biggest thing your company needs is a better hiring manager/hiring team, rather than less millennials.

That.

Of the millennials I've managed... Well, one was so dumb I'm surprised she could avoid walls while walking (but she was EXCELLENT at talking to elderly patients about their cancer treatments, so...), and the rest were all, ALL, hard-working and thoughtful.

The people over 40 I've managed? Well, 1 was pretty great: the kind of guy who just want so be left alone to do a great job. Then there was Mrs "you're too young to be my manager and I'm not going to listen to you" (direct quote), as well as Mr "direct cause of a 5M$ audit". Oh, and let's not forget Mr "my church says I can't accept authority from women, so I'll have to verify your instructions with the man in charge." I inherited that team, and had NOT hired them. 3 guesses as to how long they lasted.

Let's just say we maybe shouldn't extrapolate universal characteristics from a few examples? Otherwise, based on the ones I just gave, we could conclude that people in their 40s and 50s are universally short-sighted, incompetent, and useless, and that just seems like an unfair generalization...

Goldielocks

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #136 on: April 05, 2016, 12:53:46 AM »
The last two Millenials we hired at work had to be let go.  The first one brought home all of his employment paperwork: W-4, I-9, Direct Deposit Form, etc. and had his Mom fill it out.  Then he missed the health insurance sign up because he forgot to give his Mom the paperwork.  He was let go for never completing his work.  I think he would have done better if he had brought his Mom to the office with him.

The second one would constantly walk outside to take personal calls on his cell phone throughout the day. As he walked through the office you could hear him saying to whomever called "No.  It's ok.  I'm just at work.  What's up?"  He would also just get up an leave for the day whenever he wanted to.  Sometimes half an hour early.  Sometimes an hour.  Once he said to his Supervisor "I have some stuff to do.  See you tomorrow" as he walked out.  One day he showed up an hour late and when his Supervisor questioned him about it he said he slept through his alarm because he was out late the night before at a football party.  Really?  Who does that?

I know they're not all like that.  But we haven't hired any since then.
Sounds like the biggest thing your company needs is a better hiring manager/hiring team, rather than less millennials.

That.

Of the millennials I've managed... Well, one was so dumb I'm surprised she could avoid walls while walking (but she was EXCELLENT at talking to elderly patients about their cancer treatments, so...), and the rest were all, ALL, hard-working and thoughtful.

The people over 40 I've managed? Well, 1 was pretty great: the kind of guy who just want so be left alone to do a great job. Then there was Mrs "you're too young to be my manager and I'm not going to listen to you" (direct quote), as well as Mr "direct cause of a 5M$ audit". Oh, and let's not forget Mr "my church says I can't accept authority from women, so I'll have to verify your instructions with the man in charge." I inherited that team, and had NOT hired them. 3 guesses as to how long they lasted.

Let's just say we maybe shouldn't extrapolate universal characteristics from a few examples? Otherwise, based on the ones I just gave, we could conclude that people in their 40s and 50s are universally short-sighted, incompetent, and useless, and that just seems like an unfair generalization...

oooh.. how do I get to be "direct cause of 5M$ audit"..?.. that sounds like fun.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #137 on: April 05, 2016, 03:51:11 AM »
Often a j

oooh.. how do I get to be "direct cause of 5M$ audit"..?.. that sounds like fun.

I can't imagine it would be too hard.  Often a judge or a religious leader will sign the paperwork and perform a short ceremony...

Kitsune

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #138 on: April 05, 2016, 06:38:50 AM »
The last two Millenials we hired at work had to be let go.  The first one brought home all of his employment paperwork: W-4, I-9, Direct Deposit Form, etc. and had his Mom fill it out.  Then he missed the health insurance sign up because he forgot to give his Mom the paperwork.  He was let go for never completing his work.  I think he would have done better if he had brought his Mom to the office with him.

The second one would constantly walk outside to take personal calls on his cell phone throughout the day. As he walked through the office you could hear him saying to whomever called "No.  It's ok.  I'm just at work.  What's up?"  He would also just get up an leave for the day whenever he wanted to.  Sometimes half an hour early.  Sometimes an hour.  Once he said to his Supervisor "I have some stuff to do.  See you tomorrow" as he walked out.  One day he showed up an hour late and when his Supervisor questioned him about it he said he slept through his alarm because he was out late the night before at a football party.  Really?  Who does that?

I know they're not all like that.  But we haven't hired any since then.
Sounds like the biggest thing your company needs is a better hiring manager/hiring team, rather than less millennials.

That.

Of the millennials I've managed... Well, one was so dumb I'm surprised she could avoid walls while walking (but she was EXCELLENT at talking to elderly patients about their cancer treatments, so...), and the rest were all, ALL, hard-working and thoughtful.

The people over 40 I've managed? Well, 1 was pretty great: the kind of guy who just want so be left alone to do a great job. Then there was Mrs "you're too young to be my manager and I'm not going to listen to you" (direct quote), as well as Mr "direct cause of a 5M$ audit". Oh, and let's not forget Mr "my church says I can't accept authority from women, so I'll have to verify your instructions with the man in charge." I inherited that team, and had NOT hired them. 3 guesses as to how long they lasted.

Let's just say we maybe shouldn't extrapolate universal characteristics from a few examples? Otherwise, based on the ones I just gave, we could conclude that people in their 40s and 50s are universally short-sighted, incompetent, and useless, and that just seems like an unfair generalization...

oooh.. how do I get to be "direct cause of 5M$ audit"..?.. that sounds like fun.

Take something that's a super-basic legal and regulatory (and safety!) requirement on one minor program for your company's biggest client. Don't do it for 3 years. Let that client find out about it and audit ALL programs they have. Cost: 18 months, 5M, and an addition 8-9M in contract negotiations over the next year, plus the loss of a few major new contracts that the company was expecting (they gave those to the company's direct competitor...)

To be fair to the client: it's the sort of thing that could have gotten them in super hot water with regulatory bodies (up to and including multiple million dollar fines and products bringing in millions being removed from the market). They had a reason to flip their shit.

StarBright

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #139 on: April 05, 2016, 07:30:37 AM »
I'm an Oregon Trail Millennial (34)- or Granny/Grampy Millennial, as we call it at my office.

I work at a small tech firm owned and run by a Gen Xer with additional Gen X management , a boomer sales guy and a project management/production staff that is made up of about 10 Granny Millenials and 10 "real" millennials.

With 80% of our staff in the dreaded age group I see a pretty general spread of performance. I will say that all of Oregon trail guys seem to be our top performers but they have ten years of experience at this point. Our millenial women seem to be harder workers than the guys (more willing to put in hours) but this could also be because they are women trying to prove themselves in a tech workplace.

The big issues I've seen generationally are as follows:
  • The younger ones do need handholding and "mothering" when it comes to things like insurance and 401ks. I've had them ask if they can have their mom call me to discuss HR issues
  • The Oregon trail people are grumpy all the time. This could also just be where they are in life - kids, daycare, mortgages, etc.
  • Both Gen Xers somehow still think they will make it big with their music. I'm not even kidding - I'm invited to hear grunge cover bands on the regular.
  • And the boomer is always complaining that no one treats him with the respect he deserves. Meanwhile he was able to move to Colorado to his future retirement home, work remotely, and never bothers to learn the production staff's names. Now, to his credit, he is a great sales guy but when you can't be bothered to call a 28 year engineer by their correct name, you can bet they are going to mock your "memory" and old age :)

Also- despite our large group of millenials we have crazy low turnover. We have a group of 6 people (myself included) that all hit their 10 year anniversary with the company in the last year. However, my GenX boss is pretty good at maintaining the workplace that keeps people around. As long you get your work done he is fine if you take off early to take care of life stuff and he is increasingly comfortable with employees remote working (after they've proven themselves in the office.) Vacation time is counted but not strictly enforced as long as you are getting your work done and even he let once guy take a 3 month unpaid sabbatical rather than lose him.

tipster350

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #140 on: April 05, 2016, 07:45:40 AM »
I'm a late Boomer. My experience has been more aligned with GenX than Boomer.

Like every generation, the Millenials are criticized as they come up into adulthood. I think that the Millenials, those from the middle class and above, were in general, subject to some bad parenting which extended to their education experience. The handholding, helicoptering, and over-the-top esteem building put the Millenials at a disadvantage entering the work world, at a time when the environment was becoming harsher and it was more difficult to get on a career path. I say the middle class and above because poorer parents did not have the opportunity/time to mollycoddle their children to the same degree. I have seen Millenials struggle, but like all generations, they are finding their way and are proving to be as valuable as any other generation.

Quite honestly, the worst in my opinion, are the Boomers who, as a generation, had it the easiest in history. A lot ended up spoiled and entitled.

coppertop

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #141 on: April 05, 2016, 08:02:17 AM »
Quite honestly, the worst in my opinion, are the Boomers who, as a generation, had it the easiest in history. A lot ended up spoiled and entitled.

Really?  Huh?  No entitlement here.  I had to buy my own car, and pay for my own insurance.  I had to pay my parents room and board while I lived in their house and had a job.  When I got out of college, the economy was in bad shape and jobs were hard to get.  We had to sit in line to buy gasoline, and could only get a certain amount and on certain days of the week.  When I wanted to buy a house, interest rates were in the 18% range and we had to scrimp and save to afford one.  I paid for my own college - no money from my parents was available.  I had four younger siblings and there were braces and other big expenses that took precedence over my education.  All of this generalizing about whole generations of people is too much.  Yes, there were spoiled and entitled Boomers.  There were also plenty of Boomers who had nothing as young adults and had to make their own way.  And this is true of every single generation that has ever existed. 

tipster350

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #142 on: April 05, 2016, 08:21:15 AM »
Quite honestly, the worst in my opinion, are the Boomers who, as a generation, had it the easiest in history. A lot ended up spoiled and entitled.

Really?  Huh?  No entitlement here.  I had to buy my own car, and pay for my own insurance.  I had to pay my parents room and board while I lived in their house and had a job.  When I got out of college, the economy was in bad shape and jobs were hard to get.  We had to sit in line to buy gasoline, and could only get a certain amount and on certain days of the week.  When I wanted to buy a house, interest rates were in the 18% range and we had to scrimp and save to afford one.  I paid for my own college - no money from my parents was available.  I had four younger siblings and there were braces and other big expenses that took precedence over my education.  All of this generalizing about whole generations of people is too much.  Yes, there were spoiled and entitled Boomers.  There were also plenty of Boomers who had nothing as young adults and had to make their own way.  And this is true of every single generation that has ever existed.

I'm not talking about your anecdotal experience or mine. I wasn't spoiled either. I am talking in vast generalities and I tried to make that clear. As in every generation, there is a variety of familial and personal experience within the group. That does not negate the existence of overall trends and conditions affecting a particular age group.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 09:14:05 AM by tipster350 »

iris lily

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #143 on: April 05, 2016, 09:18:53 AM »
The difference between millennialis and the previous generations is that those of us in the millieal age bracket didn't get this lesson:

http://youtu.be/j7leQB_Oe_k

A few of us did, but the rest? They believe they can. And it is sad.


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This song  sums it best: Boomers are better because we have the best music.
Really, who is better than Mick and Keith?

:)

LeRainDrop

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #144 on: April 05, 2016, 09:30:46 AM »
The difference between millennialis and the previous generations is that those of us in the millieal age bracket didn't get this lesson:

http://youtu.be/j7leQB_Oe_k

A few of us did, but the rest? They believe they can. And it is sad.


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This song  sums it best: Boomers are better because we have the best music.
Really, who is better than Mick and Keith?

:)

John, Paul, George, and Ringo!

iris lily

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #145 on: April 05, 2016, 09:52:04 AM »
The difference between millennialis and the previous generations is that those of us in the millieal age bracket didn't get this lesson:

http://youtu.be/j7leQB_Oe_k

A few of us did, but the rest? They believe they can. And it is sad.


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This song  sums it best: Boomers are better because we have the best music.
Really, who is better than Mick and Keith?

:)

John, Paul, George, and Ringo!

Now Gen xers, Milleniums, etc can step aside because this is a Boomer debate...

rantk81

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #146 on: April 05, 2016, 10:12:46 AM »
Boy Bands? Good riddance...

Inaya

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #147 on: April 05, 2016, 10:19:36 AM »
What, no love for the classics? You know, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin...

arebelspy

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #148 on: April 05, 2016, 10:37:33 AM »
IDK, many boomers I know seem to love more recent stuff like Adele.
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maco

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Re: Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!
« Reply #149 on: April 05, 2016, 01:31:16 PM »
I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.
There really are some significant differences.  If you grow up with a cell phone in one hand and having instant access to any information and many services, you are just different than me, who grew up without those things.  I'm seeing more and more of these differences ever since my nephew has been living with me.  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so much.

Long before the age of pervasive internet, GPS, and instant directions, many (possibly most) people were completely incompetent with regards to maps, navigation, and natural direction sense. Those people are better off than they would have been in the past now that they have assistive technology to help them get where they need to go.
That's why you'd go to AAA and get them to set you up with a TripTik.