Enough with this "millenial" bullshit!

[acanthurus]

I'm not even a "millenial" but this is getting out of hand:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-gender-pay--nike-s-new-tracking-app--chipotle-hurt-by--fickle--millennials-141601962.html

Apparently not wanting to get sick in possibly the worst foodborne illness scandal since Jack-In-The-Box was killing people makes millenials "fickle".

What ridiculous things have you heard attributed to Millennials(tm) today?

[Paul | pdgessler]

Instant cure: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/millennials-to-snake-peop/jhkibealmjkbkafogihpeidfcgnigmlf

[enb123]

Thanks for the Chrome extension link!  I wasn't even annoyed by the word, but replacing it with "Snake people" everywhere is really excellent!

[JCfire]

Instant cure: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/millennials-to-snake-peop/jhkibealmjkbkafogihpeidfcgnigmlf

Beware -- I installed that chrome extension, forgot about it, and then was trying to read about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnessess.  I came away thinking that they believed the world would end with snake people reigning over the world!  The actual website mentioned a millennial (i.e. 1000 year) reign of Christ over the earth.  Mentioned this in a conversation with the next JW who knocked on my door and it led to alot of confusion and a much longer conversation than I had intended, in which I looked like (and was) an idiot.

[SomedayStache]

Beware -- I installed that chrome extension, forgot about it, and then was trying to read about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnessess.  I came away thinking that they believed the world would end with snake people reigning over the world!  The actual website mentioned a millennial (i.e. 1000 year) reign of Christ over the earth.  Mentioned this in a conversation with the next JW who knocked on my door and it led to alot of confusion and a much longer conversation than I had intended, in which I looked like (and was) an idiot.

This is marvelous.

[JLee]

Instant cure: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/millennials-to-snake-peop/jhkibealmjkbkafogihpeidfcgnigmlf

Beware -- I installed that chrome extension, forgot about it, and then was trying to read about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnessess.  I came away thinking that they believed the world would end with snake people reigning over the world!  The actual website mentioned a millennial (i.e. 1000 year) reign of Christ over the earth.  Mentioned this in a conversation with the next JW who knocked on my door and it led to alot of confusion and a much longer conversation than I had intended, in which I looked like (and was) an idiot.

omfg lmao

[JCfire]

Yeah... not my finest hour, but in my defense snakes are somewhat a religious theme.  Anyway, I still have the extension active so all's well that ends well.

[katsiki]

I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

[BlueHouse]

I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

There really are some significant differences.  If you grow up with a cell phone in one hand and having instant access to any information and many services, you are just different than me, who grew up without those things.  I'm seeing more and more of these differences ever since my nephew has been living with me.  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so much.

[ysette9]

  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so muc

You know, the interesting thing to me is that he likely has a similar opinion of you and is amazed by the things that you don't know how to do, not having grown up with devices and interconnectedness that he has. It's good to remember that different is not necessarily good or bad.

[Mr. Green]

Instant cure: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/millennials-to-snake-peop/jhkibealmjkbkafogihpeidfcgnigmlf

Beware -- I installed that chrome extension, forgot about it, and then was trying to read about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnessess.  I came away thinking that they believed the world would end with snake people reigning over the world!  The actual website mentioned a millennial (i.e. 1000 year) reign of Christ over the earth.  Mentioned this in a conversation with the next JW who knocked on my door and it led to alot of confusion and a much longer conversation than I had intended, in which I looked like (and was) an idiot.

That's fantastic! And hilarious!

[AvisJinx]

I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

This. My employer went so far as to assemble a "Millennial Committee." Granted I work for a nonprofit and nonprofits do so love creating committees and focus groups. They don't really accomplish anything, but it does give them the appearance of being enterprising and current. The executive committee and board just love that shit.

[Jack]

I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

There really are some significant differences.  If you grow up with a cell phone in one hand and having instant access to any information and many services, you are just different than me, who grew up without those things.  I'm seeing more and more of these differences ever since my nephew has been living with me.  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so much.

I really don't get it either. As a 31-year-old I'm apparently considered a millennial, but I know how to use a paper map and have an excellent sense of direction. I also still remember the Apple II and DOS, and vaguely remember how to use a library card catalog. Yet I'm also just as competent and comfortable with computers and whatnot as any other "digital native."

By the way, if somebody doesn't know how to read a map it's not because he's a millennial, it's because he's an idiot. Hell, if anything, the existence of things like Google Maps means I read maps more often than I would have if this were 1996 instead of 2016!

[JLee]

I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

There really are some significant differences.  If you grow up with a cell phone in one hand and having instant access to any information and many services, you are just different than me, who grew up without those things.  I'm seeing more and more of these differences ever since my nephew has been living with me.  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so much.

I really don't get it either. As a 31-year-old I'm apparently considered a millennial, but I know how to use a paper map and have an excellent sense of direction. I also still remember the Apple II and DOS, and vaguely remember how to use a library card catalog. Yet I'm also just as competent and comfortable with computers and whatnot as any other "digital native."

By the way, if somebody doesn't know how to read a map it's not because he's a millennial, it's because he's an idiot. Hell, if anything, the existence of things like Google Maps means I read maps more often than I would have if this were 1996 instead of 2016!

My natural sense of direction is absolutely abysmal. I don't think that has anything to do with the current availability of smartphones - I'm 32.

I also don't understand how someone can't read a map. It's just...common sense?

[protostache]

I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

There really are some significant differences.  If you grow up with a cell phone in one hand and having instant access to any information and many services, you are just different than me, who grew up without those things.  I'm seeing more and more of these differences ever since my nephew has been living with me.  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so much.

Long before the age of pervasive internet, GPS, and instant directions, many (possibly most) people were completely incompetent with regards to maps, navigation, and natural direction sense. Those people are better off than they would have been in the past now that they have assistive technology to help them get where they need to go.

[GrumpyPenguin]

Saying that snake people don't know how to use a map and have a bad sense of direction is an unfair overgeneralization. 

Just like how all baby boomers are hideous with any technology.  My experience in the work place has taught me that any baby boomer will immediately download malware onto any computer they use.  It's ridiculous.  Baby boomer workplace productivity <<< snake people workplace productivity.

[ender]

I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

There really are some significant differences.  If you grow up with a cell phone in one hand and having instant access to any information and many services, you are just different than me, who grew up without those things.  I'm seeing more and more of these differences ever since my nephew has been living with me.  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so much.

I think the defining difference is not the "millennial" thing but how ubiquitous computers/technology was in your childhood.

People who are in their early 30s did not grow up with computers from their early childhood. But move that back 5-10 years? Very different childhood experiences, with respect to computing.

[FIRE_Buckeye]

The influx of millennial articles is nothing more than baby boomers trying to place blame on others for situations in this country that their generation has dicked up. More than that, they are the ones who birthed and raised this current generation, so they definitely shouldn't be throwing stones.

I read many of the articles the OP alluded to for the sheer amusement at knowing that myself, and likely everyone on this forum in the age bracket the author is referring to, by and large will crap all over the financial achievements of your average or even above average individual from the older generations.

[hedgefund10]

That millenials want free speech. Millenials only want free speech when it agrees with what they want to hear.

[Tyson]

The millennials represent a sea change, politically, for this country.  And they have much different core values than the Boomers, in particular.  These 2 facts make a lot of (conservative) people very, very uncomfortable.  So they make fun of the millennials at every opportunity, because they fear the inevitable change they represent. 

For myself (a Gen-X'er), with regard to the changes you are bringing - I say "Thank You!" and "It's about d@mn time". 

[hedgefund10]

The millennials represent a sea change, politically, for this country.  And they have much different core values than the Boomers, in particular.  These 2 facts make a lot of (conservative) people very, very uncomfortable.  So they make fun of the millennials at every opportunity, because they fear the inevitable change they represent. 

For myself (a Gen-X'er), with regard to the changes you are bringing - I say "Thank You!" and "It's about d@mn time".

Millenials and Boomers are cut from the same cloth. Both want something and the hell with the rest of the country. The boomers want their full Social Security benefits regardless if they bankrupt it for the generations after them. The millenials want free college,  and don't care if they bankrupt the country doing it. 

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

[ETBen]

I used to think the Millenial work stuff was crap. But now I live it. We hire a large number of fresh out of grad school millennials in my department. They're super bright. But everything else people say about them in the workplace. And they're difficult to manage, with a lot of turnover Bc we are a very vertical corporate structure. I actually thought I would relate better Bc I'm on the younger side of GenX but that hasn't happened.

As another poster said, I think it's funny when boomers complain about the millennials, when they're the ones that created all the special snowflakes :).

I will add that I find the Millenial stereotype seems to apply more at the group level, not individuals. We have a few totally insufferable Millenial employees but that's typical of all generations.

[coolistdude]

Instant cure: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/snake people-to-snake-peop/jhkibealmjkbkafogihpeidfcgnigmlf

Installing this extension made this thread a whole lot more entertaining. So simple, but so amazing.

[alsoknownasDean]

I hear a lot at work and management seminars that millennials are totally different, we have to change the way we work, handle employees, etc.  I find this hard to believe.  I can't imagine these folks are really that different than the current crop of early 30s, early 40s folks.  Weird.

There really are some significant differences.  If you grow up with a cell phone in one hand and having instant access to any information and many services, you are just different than me, who grew up without those things.  I'm seeing more and more of these differences ever since my nephew has been living with me.  I have to keep reminding myself that my way isn't necessarily the right way, but I can tell you this:  on a cloudy day, he can't find his way home from a new place because GPS.  He doesn't know how to read a map and really has no interest in even learning general directions (he doesn't know if his job is to the East or the West of where we live).   Part of that is him, part is his parents, but part is also his generation.  These were normal things that we all HAD to learn back when I was in school.  now, not so much.

I think the defining difference is not the "millennial" thing but how ubiquitous computers/technology was in your childhood.

People who are in their early 30s did not grow up with computers from their early childhood. But move that back 5-10 years? Very different childhood experiences, with respect to computing.

Good point that.

I'm 31, and hence qualify as a 'millennial' (although the term 'Gen-Y' is used more here). Yet I didn't have a computer at home until I was 8, didn't have internet at home until I was 15, and got my first mobile phone at 17. Anyone born ten years later (which is probably Gen-Z but whatever) would have been exposed to computers pretty much from the cradle.

[dreams_and_discoveries]

I'm not sure what generation I fall into - I'm 35, and right on the border of Gen X / Y.

Grew up without computers, my primary school had one, secondary school had 15 (we had to share) in the computing class only. In my final year, the school had about 30 computers.

When I went to uni, I got an email address. Wasn't very useful, as no-one else had email that I didn't see each day. We used to laugh at the lecturer who sent the class instructions by email, as we only checked them every few weeks, when we could get a computer. Our department had ~500 students, and 8 computers. There were other computer rooms, but they involved queueing and working late at night. I got my first computer at home when I bought it at 20.

So I think that makes me less of Gen Y, but I don't really identify with Gen X either. I was the first year at uni where they introduced tuition fees (thanks Labour government), where they dismantled grants (I got the max grant of £300 a year, in installments natch).

[rocketpj]

The millennials represent a sea change, politically, for this country.  And they have much different core values than the Boomers, in particular.  These 2 facts make a lot of (conservative) people very, very uncomfortable.  So they make fun of the millennials at every opportunity, because they fear the inevitable change they represent. 

For myself (a Gen-X'er), with regard to the changes you are bringing - I say "Thank You!" and "It's about d@mn time".

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

Hmm. Not a millenial, but minimum work for maximum benefit sounds pretty good.  This whole maximum work for crappy wages really isn't making me happy, I'm willing to try something else.

[rocketpj]

Probably worth pointing out that those 'lazy entitled millenials' have been doing the vast majority of the fighting and dying in this centuries stupid wars - started by old people, as always.

[Tigerpine]

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

Sounds like a good business model to me.  We reward companies for this mindset; why should individuals be different?

[stlbrah]

The only problem I see with millennials is that they job hop constantly.

At work its like "yay finally another person below 30!" and then the person leaves 3 months later. The only way they stay is if they have a baby depending on them, or some millenials that just have a boomer type of mindset.. This has happens several times a year on my team.  They always hire them as contractors so they can leave easily. I would probably do the same, however, if I was a contractor and had no un-vested retirement benefits to lose.

Not to get too off topic though, I read that Chipotle blurb the other day too. I love Chipotle, I just want to give it more time before eating there again. I usually use credit card rewards to eat there.  Very inexpensive for the food, I just get chicken and then get everything that is free added to it and its about $7.

[Tabaxus]

I'm not sure what generation I fall into - I'm 35, and right on the border of Gen X / Y.

Grew up without computers, my primary school had one, secondary school had 15 (we had to share) in the computing class only. In my final year, the school had about 30 computers.

When I went to uni, I got an email address. Wasn't very useful, as no-one else had email that I didn't see each day. We used to laugh at the lecturer who sent the class instructions by email, as we only checked them every few weeks, when we could get a computer. Our department had ~500 students, and 8 computers. There were other computer rooms, but they involved queueing and working late at night. I got my first computer at home when I bought it at 20.

So I think that makes me less of Gen Y, but I don't really identify with Gen X either. I was the first year at uni where they introduced tuition fees (thanks Labour government), where they dismantled grants (I got the max grant of £300 a year, in installments natch).

Oregon Trail generation is a great label for the weirdness of being born in the early '80s.  I'm an '84 kid, and I don't think Gen X or Gen Y labels fit either (though I did have an email address in high school). 

[hedgefund10]

The millennials represent a sea change, politically, for this country.  And they have much different core values than the Boomers, in particular.  These 2 facts make a lot of (conservative) people very, very uncomfortable.  So they make fun of the millennials at every opportunity, because they fear the inevitable change they represent. 

For myself (a Gen-X'er), with regard to the changes you are bringing - I say "Thank You!" and "It's about d@mn time".

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

Hmm. Not a millenial, but minimum work for maximum benefit sounds pretty good.  This whole maximum work for crappy wages really isn't making me happy, I'm willing to try something else.

Don't get mad when I pick the other person putting in more work for a bigger raise.

[hedgefund10]

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

Sounds like a good business model to me.  We reward companies for this mindset; why should individuals be different?

What companies?

[Tigerpine]

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

Sounds like a good business model to me.  We reward companies for this mindset; why should individuals be different?

What companies?

Is that not what capitalism is based on?  The goal of business is to maximize profit.  The more one can cut costs and find more efficient means to deliver goods and services, the more sucessful a company is.  Am I wrong?

[FIRE_Buckeye]

The only problem I see with millennials is that they job hop constantly.

That may be a problem for you, but its a necessary evil for millennials.
Gone are the days of company loyalty to their employees. Gone (largely) are the days of climbing the company ladder by dedicating your career to the same company, and being rewarded for that effort and dedication. Many companies are more apt to hire from outside the organization for management/supervisory positions than to hire from within. Many companies have no problem cutting 10% of their workforce after a few bad quarters if it means slightly improving the bottom line.

Millennials just happen to have enough awareness to recognize that if a company has no loyalty to you, why should you have any loyalty to it? We're aware enough to recognize that the best way to climb the ladder, and to drastically increase our earning power, is by hopping to companies willing to pay that premium for the contribution we're able to make after a few years in a given position. Don't get me wrong, if effort and performance are properly rewarded, naturally you'll see less turnover, and that's true across all generations. If it isn't, then that high turnover, or "job-hopping", will be the reality you're forced to deal with.

Like it or not, that is the new reality, not brought upon by millennials, but by the business environment we've been forced to adapt to.

[hedgefund10]

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

Sounds like a good business model to me.  We reward companies for this mindset; why should individuals be different?

What companies?

Is that not what capitalism is based on?  The goal of business is to maximize profit.  The more one can cut costs and find more efficient means to deliver goods and services, the more sucessful a company is.  Am I wrong?

Ok and companies are rewarded in the market place by perceived value add, same as in the labor market. I don't reward minimum work with maximum pay. Sorry.

[Tigerpine]

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

Sounds like a good business model to me.  We reward companies for this mindset; why should individuals be different?

What companies?

Is that not what capitalism is based on?  The goal of business is to maximize profit.  The more one can cut costs and find more efficient means to deliver goods and services, the more sucessful a company is.  Am I wrong?

Ok and companies are rewarded in the market place by perceived value add, same as in the labor market. I don't reward minimum work with maximum pay. Sorry.

I regularly work 60-70+ hour weeks.  The only reward I get is more work.  I get good work reviews, but the company at corporate level has decided to take away our 401(k) matching funds.

Meanwhile, we have certain other employees who don't work nearly as hard as I do, and they get paid more than I do.  I feel like I'm doing something wrong.  Working harder is obviously not the answer.

My experience in corporate America is that it's not hard work that gets rewarded.  It's bringing in money that gets rewarded.  So sales and marketing guys bring in the bucks while the engineers just get more work.

I am not a Millennial, but I understand where they are coming from.  Lately I've decided to find a new job because I'm tired of all the work. 

EDIT:  I need to learn how to spell.

[hedgefund10]

The younger millenials that I have supervised, want to do the minimum amount of work to get maximum benefit.  The older people I have supervised don't seem to have this mentality.

Sounds like a good business model to me.  We reward companies for this mindset; why should individuals be different?

What companies?

Is that not what capitalism is based on?  The goal of business is to maximize profit.  The more one can cut costs and find more efficient means to deliver goods and services, the more sucessful a company is.  Am I wrong?

Ok and companies are rewarded in the market place by perceived value add, same as in the labor market. I don't reward minimum work with maximum pay. Sorry.

I regularly work 60-70+ hour weeks.  The only reward I get is more work.  I get good work reviews, but the company at corporate level has decided to take away our 401(k) matching funds.

Meanwhile, we have certain other employees who don't work nearly as hard as I do, and they get paid more than I do.  I feel like I'm doing something wrong.  Working harder is obviously not the answer.

My experience in corporate America is that it's not hard work that gets rewarded.  It's bringing in money that gets rewarded.  So sales and marketing guys bring in the bucks while the engineers just get more work.

I am not a Millennial, but I understand where they are coming from.  Lately I've decided to find a new job because I'm tired of all the work. 

EDIT:  I need to learn how to spell.

I agree that if you finish your work you get more, and that sales people get paid more because they bring in the money. 

I work in public accounting and the Partners are the ones bringing in the clients.  I'm a senior and I have a team that I manage. I am the highest ranking member at the client site every day.  I have done all the work before that the people under me are doing and I can tell when people are "sitting on work". So at the end of the day if you can get all your work done and help others with theirs, I'm going to give you a better performance review than someone who isn't helping out.

[BlueHouse]

So at the end of the day if you can get all your work done and help others with theirs, I'm going to give you a better performance review than someone who isn't helping out.

I'm not a snake person, and even I am sneering at that promise.  Keep your performance review. Can I also have a ribbon? 

[hedgefund10]

So at the end of the day if you can get all your work done and help others with theirs, I'm going to give you a better performance review than someone who isn't helping out.

I'm not a snake person, and even I am sneering at that promise.  Keep your performance review. Can I also have a ribbon?

How about a pink slip?

[Tyson]

Here's the problem, and it's structural.  There might be good bosses out there that run good teams (like hedgefund10, most likely), and those managers try their best to be fair.  But what about years (like this year for me) where the company simply decides to not give bonuses.  So I worked my ass off all year and my reward is a good performance review, with no bonus and on raise.  Not even a cost of living bump.

You think I won't use my experience to jump to a different company in a heartbeat?  Of course I will.  And it has nothing to do with my manager or my peers.  It's got to do with the company itself.  From the "Leadership" team, as they call them around here.  Also, I've been laid off from companies even when working way more than 40 hours a week and singlehandedly keeping certain functions afloat.  The truth is that at the corporate level, the company simply doesn't give a sh!t about you, period.  If you aren't in sales, then you are viewed as a cost.  And what do companies love to cut whenever they can?  That's right, the cost.  That's why it's so hard to get raises, even if you get good reviews or a promotion.  Because companies hate to spend any money on you than they already are.  The only real way to make big jumps in salary is to take your newly acquired skills and float them in front of a new company. 

Too bad it took me 21 years of working before I figured all this out.  I would have job hopped a lot more and gotten a higher salary much sooner if I'd know how things really worked.  Again, kudos to the Millennials for figuring these things out much sooner than I did.  That's not bitterness on my part, that's just reality of how things are. 

[ender]

I agree that if you finish your work you get more, and that sales people get paid more because they bring in the money. 

I work in public accounting and the Partners are the ones bringing in the clients.  I'm a senior and I have a team that I manage. I am the highest ranking member at the client site every day.  I have done all the work before that the people under me are doing and I can tell when people are "sitting on work". So at the end of the day if you can get all your work done and help others with theirs, I'm going to give you a better performance review than someone who isn't helping out.

This mindset always cracks me up.

A good performance review? Who cares. Why should I put in extra hours and extra work to get... an "exceeds expectations" instead of a "meets expectations" review? Why should that matter to me? It only matters if companies attach significant incentive to that, and let's be real. A great performance review instead of an "average" one in nearly all companies is a ... 1-2% difference in raise? Maybe?

If hard work was actually rewarded proportional to the energy required, you bet you'd see millennials working harder. But too many managers act like a "great performance review" is somehow incentive to get their employees to spend tons of life energy for no other benefit. Millennials have seen companies take advantage of their employees, lay them off, reduce benefits, and overall screw them over and confirm the "at-will" relationship is in the benefit of the employer. Oh and most people have done tons of great work and gotten an average performance review to boot.

If the promise of a "nice performance review" is the best you can offer to employees... don't be surprised if employees act accordingly.

[hedgefund10]

I agree that if you finish your work you get more, and that sales people get paid more because they bring in the money. 

I work in public accounting and the Partners are the ones bringing in the clients.  I'm a senior and I have a team that I manage. I am the highest ranking member at the client site every day.  I have done all the work before that the people under me are doing and I can tell when people are "sitting on work". So at the end of the day if you can get all your work done and help others with theirs, I'm going to give you a better performance review than someone who isn't helping out.

This mindset always cracks me up.

A good performance review? Who cares. Why should I put in extra hours and extra work to get... an "exceeds expectations" instead of a "meets expectations" review? Why should that matter to me? It only matters if companies attach significant incentive to that, and let's be real. A great performance review instead of an "average" one in nearly all companies is a ... 1-2% difference in raise? Maybe?

If hard work was actually rewarded proportional to the energy required, you bet you'd see millennials working harder. But too many managers act like a "great performance review" is somehow incentive to get their employees to spend tons of life energy for no other benefit. Millennials have seen companies take advantage of their employees, lay them off, reduce benefits, and overall screw them over and confirm the "at-will" relationship is in the benefit of the employer. Oh and most people have done tons of great work and gotten an average performance review to boot.

If the promise of a "nice performance review" is the best you can offer to employees... don't be surprised if employees act accordingly.

Try 5-7% difference.  I'm not surprised, as mostly the ones who do minimum work leave to some dead end corporate job where they make $60-$70K with no real chance for advancement, or they are "coached" out at a certain level. 

[ender]

Try 5-7% difference.  I'm not surprised, as mostly the ones who do minimum work leave to some dead end corporate job where they make $60-$70K with no real chance for advancement, or they are "coached" out at a certain level.

I suspect your company is an extreme outlier in this regard.

[Tyson]

Try 5-7% difference.  I'm not surprised, as mostly the ones who do minimum work leave to some dead end corporate job where they make $60-$70K with no real chance for advancement, or they are "coached" out at a certain level.

I suspect your company is an extreme outlier in this regard.

They are.  See my post above - most companies that I've seen up close during my 21 years in the game don't work like this.  The only real way to get substantial pay bumps most of the time is to switch companies.  Like I said above, it's because you officially become a part of their cost structure, and guess what the company wants to keep as low as possible?  Yup, their costs.  Which your salary is a part of.  And if they can even reduce their costs by getting rid of stuff like 401k matches?  Heck yeah they are gonna look hard at that option. 

[tobitonic]

I agree that if you finish your work you get more, and that sales people get paid more because they bring in the money. 

I work in public accounting and the Partners are the ones bringing in the clients.  I'm a senior and I have a team that I manage. I am the highest ranking member at the client site every day.  I have done all the work before that the people under me are doing and I can tell when people are "sitting on work". So at the end of the day if you can get all your work done and help others with theirs, I'm going to give you a better performance review than someone who isn't helping out.

This mindset always cracks me up.

A good performance review? Who cares. Why should I put in extra hours and extra work to get... an "exceeds expectations" instead of a "meets expectations" review? Why should that matter to me? It only matters if companies attach significant incentive to that, and let's be real. A great performance review instead of an "average" one in nearly all companies is a ... 1-2% difference in raise? Maybe?

If hard work was actually rewarded proportional to the energy required, you bet you'd see millennials working harder. But too many managers act like a "great performance review" is somehow incentive to get their employees to spend tons of life energy for no other benefit. Millennials have seen companies take advantage of their employees, lay them off, reduce benefits, and overall screw them over and confirm the "at-will" relationship is in the benefit of the employer. Oh and most people have done tons of great work and gotten an average performance review to boot.

If the promise of a "nice performance review" is the best you can offer to employees... don't be surprised if employees act accordingly.

Try 5-7% difference.  I'm not surprised, as mostly the ones who do minimum work leave to some dead end corporate job where they make $60-$70K with no real chance for advancement, or they are "coached" out at a certain level.

Considering the fact that 60k-70k for an individual is already a ridiculously large amount of money (it's more than 1 out of every 2 families are making in household income) in the US, I'm not surprised that you've got employees leaving for such jobs, especially if they come with better work-life balances. If you think that amount of money is chump change, it shows how out of touch your business model is relative to the country it exists in, never mind to millenials. Most people in the US aren't earning that much no matter how many hours they put in; most families aren't earning that much no matter how many members are working.

[Elliot]

Working harder is a joke.  If I can get the same or better results than a peer by working smarter, I shouldn't be punished for not looking as busy as someone else thinks I should. Incentivize /results/.


Anyway. I guess all I really have to say on the topic is to paraphrase a joke/not joke I heard once. "If I had a dollar for every time I had to hear a Boomer bitching about my generation, I could buy a house in the economy they ruined."

[Tyson]

Considering the fact that 60k-70k for an individual is already a ridiculously large amount of money (it's more than 1 out of every 2 families are making in household income) in the US, I'm not surprised that you've got employees leaving for such jobs, especially if they come with better work-life balances. If you think that amount of money is chump change, it shows how out of touch your business model is relative to the country it exists in, never mind to millenials. Most people in the US aren't earning that much no matter how many hours they put in; most families aren't earning that much no matter how many members are working.

That's not really true.  The issue is if you are highly educated and working in a high paying industry (say, tech), then $60-$70k is really an entry level salary.  Usually your decent people are making $80k, and your good people are at $90 or slightly more.  And trust me a 5-7% raise per year is given out to maybe one person, every leap year, when there's both a solar and a lunar eclipse happening. 

My favorite experience so far has been when I absolutely crushed it for 3 years in a row, got top performance reviews, 2% raises, and then got promoted to manager.  Guess how much a raise that got me?  Zero.  Yep, here's the responsibility of 15 more people and you get nothing. 

Oh, just to give some more context, the companies I have worked for are Century Link, Hewlett Packard, Oracle, and Convergys.  It's been exactly the same at every one of them.

[tobitonic]

Considering the fact that 60k-70k for an individual is already a ridiculously large amount of money (it's more than 1 out of every 2 families are making in household income) in the US, I'm not surprised that you've got employees leaving for such jobs, especially if they come with better work-life balances. If you think that amount of money is chump change, it shows how out of touch your business model is relative to the country it exists in, never mind to millenials. Most people in the US aren't earning that much no matter how many hours they put in; most families aren't earning that much no matter how many members are working.

That's not really true. 

The median individual wage in 2014 was 28.8k.

The median household income in 2013 was 51.9k.

[hedgefund10]

Considering the fact that 60k-70k for an individual is already a ridiculously large amount of money (it's more than 1 out of every 2 families are making in household income) in the US, I'm not surprised that you've got employees leaving for such jobs, especially if they come with better work-life balances. If you think that amount of money is chump change, it shows how out of touch your business model is relative to the country it exists in, never mind to millenials. Most people in the US aren't earning that much no matter how many hours they put in; most families aren't earning that much no matter how many members are working.

That's not really true. 

The median individual wage in 2014 was 28.8k.

The median household income in 2013 was 51.9k.

Ok, so that median wage for individuals includes the high school graduates working at McDonald's. Why would I compare bachelor's and masters students to them? The answer you wouldn't.

[MisterTwoForty]

The millenial generation has been forced into the situation of job hopping and their working habits.  Why do I say that?

Simple:

-Average raises are very low at companies (less than 3% annually).  Companies continually ask their employees to do more, but refuse to reward for it.
-Most management positions are filled by outside hires, the days of being rewarded promotions internally have left.

So, the younger gens have to bounce around to move up both in position and pay.