The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: wageslave23 on December 19, 2019, 01:10:55 PM
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Any suggestions on where to shop for an engagement ring? I'm thinking online is going to be the best value. I've checked out Brilliant Earth, Blue Nile, and Jared Allen. Any other tips? Thanks. As a side note, I looked up the avg size diamond is 1ct. While I am definitely frugal and future fiance is moderately frugal, I'm thinking this might be a time where splurging a little might make sense since its something she will hopefully be wearing for life. I'm thinking somewhere in the 1.5ct $6-7k range. Thoughts?
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If your soon to be spouse is game, moissanite is a great replacement for diamonds. It’s more brilliant, and you can easily go 1.5ct before it starts getting questionable (high clarity + large rock may look a little suspicious).
If they are more traditional and want a diamond or nothing, consider shopping estate sales and/or buying secondhand. Diamonds depreciate immediately with a first sale, and about half of all marriages end in divorce, so... there are plenty of used rings to be found.
You could buy the stone secondhand and get a custom band on Etsy, too.
Lots of options!
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I have a friend who had good luck recently with https://www.idonowidont.com/
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As a side note: Clarity is more important than size. Going a half carat up and sacrificing clarity rating is not the way to go.
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Consider moissanite in place of diamonds. IMO, diamonds are not an investment in the stance that they gain monetary value over time. Sure they're pretty and represent something invaluable. But take that money saved and invest it or pay down debt. Plus, there is an ethical side to diamonds and such that I won't get into.
Bought my now wife a moissanite ring, and she thanks me often for not spending the money on a diamond, and gets compliments frequently on her stone.
Check out Love & Promise Jewelery. Chicago based but I had no issues doing my transactions with them virtually.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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This is always an idea. We will we would have done this from the beginning.
https://www.amazon.com/ThunderFit-Triangle-Diamond-Stackable-Silicone/dp/B07H4FTTRM?ref_=ast_slp_dp
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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+1 to moissanite.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/how-an-ad-campaign-invented-the-diamond-engagement-ring/385376/
https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/05/10/diamond-trade-still-fuels-human-suffering
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Any suggestions on where to shop for an engagement ring? I'm thinking online is going to be the best value. I've checked out Brilliant Earth, Blue Nile, and Jared Allen. Any other tips? Thanks. As a side note, I looked up the avg size diamond is 1ct. While I am definitely frugal and future fiance is moderately frugal, I'm thinking this might be a time where splurging a little might make sense since its something she will hopefully be wearing for life. I'm thinking somewhere in the 1.5ct $6-7k range. Thoughts?
You are probably going to get a lot of naysayers about spending that much. I've been married 23 years. If I knew then what I know now about the diamond industry, I would have not gotten one. I think the need to have a big rock is ridiculous - 1.5 ct seems really large (Mine is 0.75 ct, which looks fine, I have small hands.) That is, when I wear it, which isn't often.
Anyway, that's a lot of money to spend on something that you wear on your finger. Something that isn't really worth that much. And then there's the whole "blood diamond" aspect of it all.
When people ask my opinion, I often recommend moissanite. I would have gone that route myself if it were an option, and in fact a few friends have gone that route on my recommendation.
I am a female engineer, however...so.
ETA, look at all the moissanite recs coming in at the same time.
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Wow, I don't know your market, but it's extremely hard to find a nice 1ct diamond ring here for 6-7K, also, I rarely see 1ct+ diamonds and I live in a city where the median income is actually quite high.
In terms of diamonds, your best bet is to buy used. Diamonds do not hold value at all and can often be found at less than a quarter of their retail value, especially if the style is dated. Then you can have the stone(s) reset.
I sold my 1.3ct ring for about $2000, which was purchased for nearly $10,000.
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I am way into gems and jewelry. First thing is to be on the same page with your intended both what she would like and expectations. Does she even want a 1 carat diamond ring? An engagement ring is anything that she would love, and is sturdy enough for daily wear.
If you KNOW that's what she wants, definitely check out Pricescope for an education how the cut (how well the diamond is cut) is very important to the beauty of the stone. Once you learn what an ideal cut is, then you can shop.
If that is not important to her and you would like something more affordable some suggestions:
1) multi-diamond ring, such as a 3 or 5 stone ring. They are beautiful but will cost less per carat.
2) estate, vintage, preloved stones or rings (loupe troupe, various estate websites such as rubylane)
3) Lab created diamonds (MMD). These are optically, chemically the same as real diamonds, at a fraction of the price. Most likely their price will continue to go down.
4) Simulants. These are lab created gemstones like moissanite and cubic zirconia. Moissanite is hard and durable and attractive but because its double refraction as well as its high refractive index, I don't think it looks like a diamond. It is pretty though.
CZs look very similar to diamond. They do get dirtier quicker and while hard not as hard as a diamond. Expect to replace stone after awhile. Very affordable.
5) Gemstone rings. While I personally feel most any type of ring can be an engagement ring, sapphire (which come in pretty much every color) and spinel are hard wearing stones that are very suitable for engagement rings. Does she have a favorite color?
You can even show her this list and have a conversation what she would love as an engagement ring. Some women don't even like diamonds.
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Also, second add:
Don’t buy moissanite or any non-diamond without talking to your SO first. The last thing you need is to (accidentally/inadvertently) deceive your SO with anything related to marriage.
Talk to them first and see what they are looking for.
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Do you have a sense of how important a diamond is to your future fiancée? Are you sure? I ask because I'd be angry if my spouse spent that much money on a piece of jewelry, even an engagement ring--especially if the cost is largely due to a single stone.
My DH and I were pretty broke when we got married, so we went with some very simple wooden rings. I still love them today, though we're looking at getting some rings designed for an upcoming milestone anniversary.
With a budget like yours and knowing what I know now, I'd actually start by talking to an independent jewelry designer. As an example, check out this one: http://www.susanelnora.com/ (http://www.susanelnora.com/) (Full disclosure: she's a friend, though I know her to be a talented and surprisingly affordable artist). Someone like this will work with you on a unique design and would likely be willing to work with a secondhand diamond or an alternative stone. They can also help you source a stone if that's what you really want. They also tend to be part of tight-knit communities, so they could also point you to a designer closer to you if you need to see it in person.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
So, that's good that you talked to her. Sounds like what she wants is a standard natural diamond ring. Probably my first love is gemstone rings. but if you are doing diamond what is attractive is their optical qualities when they are ideally cut. It's like wearing a kaleidoscope on your finger. Places to get super ideal cut diamonds include Whiteflash, and High Performance diamonds. While they can be found on the internet, they are NOT discount. You will be paying a premium because maybe 1% of diamonds are cut to this level. Since she didn't say a particular size, if it was me I would get a diamond in the g-I color range in the VS-SI clarity range that has a super ideal cut, in what your price range is. And I would get it in a very simple setting unless she expresses a clear style preference.
eta if you have to make the 1 carat mark this is one I think would perform very nicely.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4183264.htm
If you want to keep to under 5K all in this is a beautiful stone
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4150012.htm
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
That "rule" was a marketing ploy by the diamond company, and it's actually 2 months salary.
Just have an honest conversation with her about what she really wants. It will be the first of many many to come.
As for "quality", I mean, it's a diamond, even a super shitty diamond is one of the strongest rocks on earth, so "quality" when it comes to diamonds is entirely in the eye of the beholder.
@partygyspy is educated on gems, but the average Joe can't tell if a diamond is rubbish by looking at it. It pretty obvious when a crap stone is next to a nearly perfect stone, but for the most part, unless someone cares about diamonds, they can only tell if it's really poorly cut or a really dreadful colour or has huge flaws visible to the naked eye.
If the stone looks shiny and pretty, then almost anyone looking at it will see a shiny, pretty stone.
I do agree though, cut is probably your best bang for your buck in terms of aiming for high quality. A bad cut can make a diamond look like plastic.
My most recent diamond ring is a pear shape, which is a shit cut as it is. It leaks light like crazy through the middle and has a dark "bowtie" where nothing is reflected, but it's the shape I wanted. There are so many stones on the ring that they compensate for the lack of fire of the main stone though. It would have been a HUGE waste to give a shit about clarity and cut for a pear shape, so I was able to get a good price on my main stone because I could go with poorer stats because they didn't matter.
I get A LOT of attention for my ring because it's so shiny (thanks tiny diamonds!) and the style is stunning (thanks Vera Wang!). It was ~$3500.
https://www.gordonsjewelers.com/vera-wang-love-collection-1-ct-tw-pearshaped-diamond-vintagestyle-ring-14k-white-gold/p/V-19952483
My point is that depending on what she wants, you may or may not have to pay a premium for arbitrary "quality". I knew exactly what I wanted and the quality I wanted was the design. Because I wanted a pear cut, there was no benefit to prioritizing "quality" factors that did even matter.
Know what she wants. Invest accordingly.
BTW, I rarely wear that ring. My favourite is actually a 3ct antique ruby and diamond ring from Russia that I bought for myself when I graduated.
Again, know what she actually wants. Invest accordingly.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
That "rule" was a marketing ploy by the diamond company, and it's actually 2 months salary.
I know that's just silly marketing, but she has a very low level knowledge of finances - she took a Dave Ramsey course a couple years ago and thought that was amazing. She knows that I earn a good salary and that I'm frugal and she's willing to learn, but I know it will mean a lot to her if I spend a decent amount on the ring if only to symbolize that money is not more important than her. And to me the difference between $3k and 7k is negligible in the grand scheme of things. If a one time $7k splurge puts her at ease and allows me to convince her to analyze other more important recurring expenses that saves $10k per year, I'll gladly make that trade off ;)
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
That "rule" was a marketing ploy by the diamond company, and it's actually 2 months salary.
I know that's just silly marketing, but she has a very low level knowledge of finances - she took a Dave Ramsey course a couple years ago and thought that was amazing. She knows that I earn a good salary and that I'm frugal and she's willing to learn, but I know it will mean a lot to her if I spend a decent amount on the ring if only to symbolize that money is not more important than her. And to me the difference between $3k and 7k is negligible in the grand scheme of things. If a one time $7k splurge puts her at ease and allows me to convince her to analyze other more important recurring expenses that saves $10k per year, I'll gladly make that trade off ;)
You obviously have an idea in your head of what you want to spend, so go ahead and spend that.
For 7K, you have a lot of options. Figure out what she wants, because 7K could easily be spent on a moderate sized, flawless stone in a cut that doesn't actually reflect light very well, in a setting that's ugly as sin.
Spending 7K won't automatically make her happy. Understanding what she really wants and using your money to get that in the most optimal way possible will.
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There is zero difference between a used and a new diamond. If I were you I'd get a used ring with the stone you want and have the diamond reset in a new/modern setting by a local jeweler. You'll have saved a ton of money, not supported a horrific industry, and still get the experience of going to a local jeweler if you need to get it sized and/or to have the setting checked from time to time.
Source: I did this for my wedding ring and it worked out great! And it certainly felt exactly like a "new" ring would. It was even a pretty fancy ring designer at the time who did it--I just brought the center stone in from elsewhere!
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My advice, since this is such an open discussion inside of your relationship, go shopping with her. She might care more about quality than size, or has a particular setting she falls in love with etc etc. Diamonds are expected in this culture but there are so many cool alternatives as well. Take her out for a day and see what she likes....
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See if you can source a wholesaler. I found one through a business associate based in LA that provides diamond rings to Costco. They don't typically deal with retail, but if you know someone who knows someone.....you can get one at a very reasonable price with very little margin built in. I was able to source a rare heart shaped extremely high quality near colorless (G) VVS2 1 ct this way, for a very reasonable price.
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+1 to Moissanite. Put it in a rocking setting. Save your money for a house or other investments.
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As a side note: Clarity is more important than size. Going a half carat up and sacrificing clarity rating is not the way to go.
Cut is always the most important in terms of looks. Try https://www.augustvintageinc.net/ for a good selection of diamond or moissanites that should look great and be well-cut.
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A friend's fiance bought her ring at a local vintage jeweler and I think only spent $2-3k. Her ring was sapphire. My engagement ring was also sapphire, I like colorful things and sapphires are available in every color of the rainbow. The other nice thing about them is they are very hard. You want a hard stone for an engagement ring because they are worn daily and harder stones are less likely to get scratched.
So you might want to talk to her about whether she is set on a diamond.
My engagement ring was $400. We bought the stone separately and had it set by a jeweler. It was much more affordable. That might be an option worth exploring.
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As a side note: Clarity is more important than size. Going a half carat up and sacrificing clarity rating is not the way to go.
Cut is always the most important in terms of looks. Try https://www.augustvintageinc.net/ for a good selection of diamond or moissanites that should look great and be well-cut.
Agreed. Clarity is sold as a big deal because it's by far the most expensive feature. Meanwhile, on a large 1ct+ stone, you could easily have an I1 clarity with a white flaw that's visible to the naked eye off to one side that barely affects the appearance of the stone overall. Again, it depends on the shape. If you have a light-losing shape like a pear, then inclusions just won't matter as much if they're in the area that doesn't reflect light.
As I said before, if a stone looks pretty and shiny, it looks pretty and shiny. Clarity isn't a measure of how pretty and shiny the stone is, not all flaws affect the appearance the same way. A white flaw is less visible than a black flaw. A flaw visible in the table is more problematic than a flaw off to one side, especially in a larger stone.
Clarity is a great metric to sucker people into paying a lot more than they need to. Yes, clarity matters, but no, having a certain grade of clarity is not a prerequisite for getting a pretty rock.
One I1 may look like crap, another may look beautiful.
What matters is what OP's future wife really cares about. Not some numbers and letters on a card associated with a stone.
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Ditto it is super important to find out what she wants.
If she doesnt have a preference as it sounds like she may not, get a pretty, clean, shiny round solitaire in white gold. That is timeless. It is classic.
Personally I prefer yellow gold since you dont have all of the “redipping” nonsense some white gold rings require. But yellow gold has been out of fashion for a while now.
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Ditto it is super important to find out what she wants.
If she doesnt have a preference as it sounds like she may not, get a pretty, clean, shiny round solitaire in white gold. That is timeless. It is classic.
Personally I prefer yellow gold since you dont have all of the “redipping” nonsense some white gold rings require. But yellow gold has been out of fashion for a while now.
It's also what countless other women out there have.
What's "classic" for one woman is "generic" for another.
She may dream of a Tiffany style round solitaire as her dream ring or she may see that as dreadfully unoriginal.
That's why it's so important to know what she wants.
For sure though, statistically, you are way more likely to meet someone's taste with a round white gold solitaire than anything else. There's a reason it's the most common ring style by far.
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+1 to finding out what she actually wants. She may not want a colorless stone at all. She may really like marquise cuts. She may hate rose gold. Just talk to her.
I will say while I love moissanite, it's not necessarily a perfect sub for diamond. Light refracts differently in the two, and moissanite gives a more firey, rainbow like sparkle, whereas diamond is really colorless. Both are beautiful, just different. I think white sapphires are also a nice alternative for diamond.
Please do look into second hand diamonds if that's what SO wants--I really wish we would have explored this option when we got engaged.
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5k is definitely too much to spend on a ring. Also, you don't have to get her a ring. DW didn't want a ring. I got her a meaningful gift, it just wasn't a ring, or even jewelry at all (nor did it contain any gemstones). It did make it a lot harder for her to show it off when people asked, but she's not really a show it off type either, so no biggie.
We did get wedding bands, and they do have stones in them. Mine is a garnet to match her brown eyes, and her stone is a Montana sapphire to match my blue eyes. I think they might have totaled $50 for both, but whenever she tells that story all she gets is "oh that's so romantic!"
(It's a lie, I'm not that much of a romantic, but I digress)
The point about knowing her and figuring out what she wants -- not just what she says she wants, but what she actually wants under all the bullshit advertising/societal programming everyone is trying to push on her -- still stands though. And that can involve no ring at all. And that's okay.
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Show her www.moissaniteco.com
They have a huge selection of engagement and wedding ring styles. Even if she doesn't want a moissanite, it's a great way to view lots of different rings so she can pick her favorite styles. I got my wedding ring there, and it is truly stunning and very well crafted.
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If you are open to preloved, this is a 1.36 carat ideal cut diamond for 4900!!! You won't be able to touch that retail.
https://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-diamond/reduced-ags-000-1-dot-36-diamond
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
My experience -- someone in your family has a family ring with a diamond on it, sitting in a drawer... if you are on good terms and don't mind sharing that you are looking for a ring, you may find an aunt that will gift something to you, or sell it to you cheaply.
Then you remake it into a NEW ring, in a setting of your GF's choosing.
Between death and divorce there are more of these than you may think. I bought DH's wedding band at an antique store for a very very reasonable price for a higher quality ring than I could otherwise afford.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
My experience -- someone in your family has a family ring with a diamond on it, sitting in a drawer... if you are on good terms and don't mind sharing that you are looking for a ring, you may find an aunt that will gift something to you, or sell it to you cheaply.
Then you remake it into a NEW ring, in a setting of your GF's choosing.
Between death and divorce there are more of these than you may think. I bought DH's wedding band at an antique store for a very very reasonable price for a higher quality ring than I could otherwise afford.
dittos on asking your family. That's what I did and my wife has a beautiful ring that is far nicer than what I could've reasonably afforded at the time. Cost to me? The cost of resizing a ring the was sitting around.
This is also an important conversation to have with your family. If they're unwilling to part with anything of value in support of the marriage, that's a screaming alarm about what they think of your future spouse. In my case they were delighted to help, and it affirmed what has proven to be about the best decision of my life.
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I would recommend an ideal cut round then. How large are her hands? A 1 ct might look huge if her ring size is small. I think if you go to 1.5 it's going to start to look BIG, but you need to go see some stones.
Look for these -- Ideal Cut, SuperIdealCut, etc. Do not let a jeweler talk you out of getting a great cut.
I still recommend August Vintage or Good Old Gold for online jewelers who are very good. Remember you want a great cut. August Vintage has put a lot of effort into well-cut high performing fancy shapes (cushion, etc.) A poorly cut diamond will lose light and not look as good as a very well cut one.
Good luck!
P.S. Everything looks shiny and beautiful in store lighting, but in the real world, many stones don't perform well. The pricescope forums are full of diamond addicts who can help you also.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
My experience -- someone in your family has a family ring with a diamond on it, sitting in a drawer... if you are on good terms and don't mind sharing that you are looking for a ring, you may find an aunt that will gift something to you, or sell it to you cheaply.
Then you remake it into a NEW ring, in a setting of your GF's choosing.
Between death and divorce there are more of these than you may think. I bought DH's wedding band at an antique store for a very very reasonable price for a higher quality ring than I could otherwise afford.
This is good advice. There were several rings floating around my family. One of them I have on my hand right now in its original 1918 setting which is spectacular.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
My experience -- someone in your family has a family ring with a diamond on it, sitting in a drawer... if you are on good terms and don't mind sharing that you are looking for a ring, you may find an aunt that will gift something to you, or sell it to you cheaply.
Then you remake it into a NEW ring, in a setting of your GF's choosing.
Between death and divorce there are more of these than you may think. I bought DH's wedding band at an antique store for a very very reasonable price for a higher quality ring than I could otherwise afford.
dittos on asking your family. That's what I did and my wife has a beautiful ring that is far nicer than what I could've reasonably afforded at the time. Cost to me? The cost of resizing a ring the was sitting around.
This is also an important conversation to have with your family. If they're unwilling to part with anything of value in support of the marriage, that's a screaming alarm about what they think of your future spouse. In my case they were delighted to help, and it affirmed what has proven to be about the best decision of my life.
Not all families have those resources, and some families have lots of kids and not a lot of jewelry. I would expect Mustachian families to have less jewelry than most, actually.
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I love this topic b/c I feel like I mustached the shit out of my wife's engagement ring.
Do not:
- buy 1 carat. prices are jacked up at that size b/c it is popular. The price for .9 is way less than 90% of the price for 1ct. And no one will know the difference.
- buy at a retail place in the mall or whatever. Major markup. Avoid at all cost.
Do:
- care about quality. My wife's is very good quality and people notice it compared to their own stones, which are bigger but not as good.
- buy the diamond separate from the setting. Use a diamond broker. Most large cities have them. If you don't live in a large city, grab your best-man and take a road trip to the closest one. You'll likely need a referral so ask around your friends/teammates/colleagues to see if they know of a good broker. Bonus: great story for your wife to tell "oh no he would never buy something at [store in the mall]. He found has a guy in [big city]. He really put thought into this.....he's better than other husbands....etc...etc...." : )
- having said the above, I've heard great things about blue nile. Story isn't as great...but the price will be.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have spoken to her a little about what she would want. She says that she would be happy with anything I got her. And that she wants something simple and not gaudy. However she usually tends towards "quality" when buying things in general. And the other night I mentioned that I needed to spend $5k in the next 3 months in order to get a CC bonus, she said an engagement ring would be good. I said ok, but what about the other $4k? She laughed but she also said that the rule of thumb is 1 month's salary. So I think it needs to be a ring that is at least "average" and that when she shows people she won't be embarrassed about it. I also want her to be "thrilled" with it and not just "ok" with it. So assuming it needs to be a natural diamond and new - any suggestions?
*I'll check out the second hand diamonds too.
My experience -- someone in your family has a family ring with a diamond on it, sitting in a drawer... if you are on good terms and don't mind sharing that you are looking for a ring, you may find an aunt that will gift something to you, or sell it to you cheaply.
Then you remake it into a NEW ring, in a setting of your GF's choosing.
Between death and divorce there are more of these than you may think. I bought DH's wedding band at an antique store for a very very reasonable price for a higher quality ring than I could otherwise afford.
Yes you would there would be family rings for this situation but sometimes - not. From my ex husband's family the only thing my ex and I inherited was an empty plain setting, after we had married. My ex's grandmother was very fond of him being the first born grandson and wanted to gift me and him and piece of jewelry. But SIL raised holy hell so grandma withdrew the offer.
On my side of the family my mother had her engagement ring and while she didn't wear it anymore for sentimental reasons did not want to hand down. She also inherited a number of rings, which she said sister and I would get when we were in our 20's, but then she got cold feet. I did finally get to pick out a ring this year (in my 50's). Both my sister and I noticed a number of rings that we did like, are now missing. Mother doesn't know what happened to them (I suspect my older brother may have fenced them). At this point, water under the bridge.
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I love this topic b/c I feel like I mustached the shit out of my wife's engagement ring.
Do not:
- buy 1 carat. prices are jacked up at that size b/c it is popular. The price for .9 is way less than 90% of the price for 1ct. And no one will know the difference.
- buy at a retail place in the mall or whatever. Major markup. Avoid at all cost.
Do:
- care about quality. My wife's is very good quality and people notice it compared to their own stones, which are bigger but not as good.
- buy the diamond separate from the setting. Use a diamond broker. Most large cities have them. If you don't live in a large city, grab your best-man and take a road trip to the closest one. You'll likely need a referral so ask around your friends/teammates/colleagues to see if they know of a good broker. Bonus: great story for your wife to tell "oh no he would never buy something at [store in the mall]. He found has a guy in [big city]. He really put thought into this.....he's better than other husbands....etc...etc...." : )
- having said the above, I've heard great things about blue nile. Story isn't as great...but the price will be.
The whole thing about diamond brokers is not really true. Real diamond brokers sell to other brokers or businesses. If they sell direct to a consumer (you) they are just another retail seller. Besides margins on diamonds are now super slim because of internet competition. It's not the same as even 20 years ago where it was pretty much only brick and mortar stores and people didn't know what a diamond should cost and would over pay.
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I love this topic b/c I feel like I mustached the shit out of my wife's engagement ring.
Do not:
- buy 1 carat. prices are jacked up at that size b/c it is popular. The price for .9 is way less than 90% of the price for 1ct. And no one will know the difference.
- buy at a retail place in the mall or whatever. Major markup. Avoid at all cost.
Do:
- care about quality. My wife's is very good quality and people notice it compared to their own stones, which are bigger but not as good.
- buy the diamond separate from the setting. Use a diamond broker. Most large cities have them. If you don't live in a large city, grab your best-man and take a road trip to the closest one. You'll likely need a referral so ask around your friends/teammates/colleagues to see if they know of a good broker. Bonus: great story for your wife to tell "oh no he would never buy something at [store in the mall]. He found has a guy in [big city]. He really put thought into this.....he's better than other husbands....etc...etc...." : )
- having said the above, I've heard great things about blue nile. Story isn't as great...but the price will be.
The whole thing about diamond brokers is not really true. Real diamond brokers sell to other brokers or businesses. If they sell direct to a consumer (you) they are just another retail seller. Besides margins on diamonds are now super slim because of internet competition. It's not the same as even 20 years ago where it was pretty much only brick and mortar stores and people didn't know what a diamond should cost and would over pay.
Hrm. Interesting. I'll admit my intel is 10 years old...and Canadian.
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I love this topic b/c I feel like I mustached the shit out of my wife's engagement ring.
Do not:
- buy 1 carat. prices are jacked up at that size b/c it is popular. The price for .9 is way less than 90% of the price for 1ct. And no one will know the difference.
- buy at a retail place in the mall or whatever. Major markup. Avoid at all cost.
Do:
- care about quality. My wife's is very good quality and people notice it compared to their own stones, which are bigger but not as good.
- buy the diamond separate from the setting. Use a diamond broker. Most large cities have them. If you don't live in a large city, grab your best-man and take a road trip to the closest one. You'll likely need a referral so ask around your friends/teammates/colleagues to see if they know of a good broker. Bonus: great story for your wife to tell "oh no he would never buy something at [store in the mall]. He found has a guy in [big city]. He really put thought into this.....he's better than other husbands....etc...etc...." : )
- having said the above, I've heard great things about blue nile. Story isn't as great...but the price will be.
The whole thing about diamond brokers is not really true. Real diamond brokers sell to other brokers or businesses. If they sell direct to a consumer (you) they are just another retail seller. Besides margins on diamonds are now super slim because of internet competition. It's not the same as even 20 years ago where it was pretty much only brick and mortar stores and people didn't know what a diamond should cost and would over pay.
Hrm. Interesting. I'll admit my intel is 10 years old...and Canadian.
Yeah, the Canadian market is different, especially a decade ago. I remember in the early 2000s popping into a giant jewelry outlet in the US and being shocked at how much lower the prices were for diamond rings than they were up here at the time. We just didn't have any stores like that up here, and online diamond buying wasn't really a thing yet.
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Some perspective from an older guy who has been married a long time and whose wife hasn’t kicked him out yet. A wedding ring is a trinket. It looks pretty. A wife might look at it every now and then. But ultimately the goal is, or should be, to be the Trophy Husband. To be the best husband to a future DW that we can be. So maybe we should spend less time and expense on trinkets and more time on developing our husband skill sets. If we’re the cook, are we learning to be an outstanding cook? Or at least a better cook? Are we learning massage therapy? Are we figuring out ways to save money and better manage finances? Are we figuring out ways to do a large share of the housework? Are we working out to keep ourselves desirable? Are we becoming better lovers? Now there’s a topic -Mustachianism and sex.
In the end, it’s about upping our game to be better and happier husbands.
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I'll add another vote in favour of vintage rings. My wife chose a diamond and sapphire ring from about 1910 and the intricacy and quality of the workmanship were just way, way better than an equivalent modern ring. It was also less than half of what I was expecting to pay so I was a very happy bunny!
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You could take her to Jewlers Row in Chicago. It's an interesting day trip, since you are in IL. That'd help sort what she wants.
Consider if she'd be comfortable walking around with a $7k object on her finger. My wife isn't. She stopped wearing her relatively inexpensive engagement ring, because she didn't want to make herself a target.
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You could take her to Jewlers Row in Chicago. It's an interesting day trip, since you are in IL. That'd help sort what she wants.
Consider if she'd be comfortable walking around with a $7k object on her finger. My wife isn't. She stopped wearing her relatively inexpensive engagement ring, because she didn't want to make herself a target.
I still think getting the diamond via internet is the best buy, but if you want to go to a brick and mortar store, this place is highly recommended (even by picky folks)
dimend scaasi 5 S Wabash Ave 17th Fl, Chicago, IL 60603
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We went to Shane Co 14 years ago after trying a few other places. I found the experience quite positive, and their support since as been good. As a happy customer I'd recommend you give them a chance.
My now wife had a particular look in mind, and the first couple jewelry were a miserable experience of being told the size of the diamond should relate to how much I love her, and at another being handed off to the boss when we we didn't snap up one of the barrage of suggested rings in under 15 minutes. At Shane the sales rep was very patient, never pressured and went above and beyond to find better and better matches to what we said we liked/disliked about each subsequent option. We ended up pairing half of set with an anniversary band as the wedding band to get things just perfect.
After that I was left to choose the diamond myself. I went with a 3/4 carat with very good color/clarity that frankly is a little on the big side at times (snags, often jabs me when holding hands, etc).
In recent years we've had several repairs and a resizing done, all free of charge. The anniversary band has a half satin and half gloss finish that requires retexturing periodically, always done free as long as we don't mind leaving it for a couple days. The main diamond got a chip out of it (caught during a cleaning inspection), and they simple showed us a half dozen equivalent diamonds to choose from and replaced it under warranty fully free and hassle free. My wife has some hand arthritis, and the rings had to be resized to go over now enlarged knuckles, also done free and without hassle.
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Another option is to propose with just a stone, and then go together to a jeweler to have a ring made. If you're unsure about what style she likes, this is one way to have a proposal gift and still leave a lot of room for her to choose.
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Have you watched Roger this ? He has some excellent behind the scenes info on stones for your special someone:
https://youtu.be/giu23Ii3PAA?t=3
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Here is a quick, albeit somewhat condescending overview that can get the discussion going:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/it's-here!-the-2019-william-sonoma-hater's-guide!/?action=post;last_msg=2520581
Moissioninte is awesome. It was discovered from a meteorite. It is twice as refractive and tougher (albeit not as hard) as a diamond.
You can still spend money on her to "show her that you love her". We bought a Moissionite and traveled Europe for 6 weeks on the difference in cost between that and a real diamond ($500 vs $5000).
My (then) girlfriend was, as yours appears to be, more worried about what others thought than actually getting a diamond. She just likes things that are sparkly. We determined that she could just say it was a diamond to those few people who asked that she didn't care to explain to. Turns out, no one even really asks!
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One thing to consider: The weight of a gemstone is proportional to the cube of the diameter, and the price of the stone goes up must faster than the weight. For example, a 0.5ct diamond is only about 20% smaller than a 1ct stone, and costs 70%+ less, all else being equal.
I agree with other posters who suggest going ring shopping with to-be-DW, avoiding malls, buying used, etc. IMO, it is absolutely critical that the two of you get on the same page in terms of what style or price of ring you get. DW-to-be may have an expectation of "wageslave needs to spend $xxx on a ring for me," in which case you overspend on a smaller rock, or you bargain hunt and get a bigger rock, but spend the same number of dollars either way. OR, DW-to-be may have a specific style or size in mind that happens to cost $xxx, and you may be able to find it for $xxx/2 and she'd be ok with it.
Either way, I think the two of you need to sit down (or go out) and you need to get a specific idea of what is expected and what is acceptable.
FWIW, my DW's engagement ring has a .33ct and two .1ct diamonds in a setting I designed myself (and a jeweler made). She appreciated the custom nature of it more than the size of the stones. Her roommate went ring shopping with me to make sure I understood what DW-to-be wanted. We were in college, so "number of months' salary" would have been a laughable thing.
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You can still spend money on her to "show her that you love her". We bought a Moissionite and traveled Europe for 6 weeks on the difference in cost between that and a real diamond ($500 vs $5000).
Good for you!
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Here is a quick, albeit somewhat condescending overview that can get the discussion going:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/it's-here!-the-2019-william-sonoma-hater's-guide!/?action=post;last_msg=2520581
Moissioninte is awesome. It was discovered from a meteorite. It is twice as refractive and tougher (albeit not as hard) as a diamond.
You can still spend money on her to "show her that you love her". We bought a Moissionite and traveled Europe for 6 weeks on the difference in cost between that and a real diamond ($500 vs $5000).
My (then) girlfriend was, as yours appears to be, more worried about what others thought than actually getting a diamond. She just likes things that are sparkly. We determined that she could just say it was a diamond to those few people who asked that she didn't care to explain to. Turns out, no one even really asks!
She might be on board with that idea, she definitely likes to travel.
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One thing to consider: The weight of a gemstone is proportional to the cube of the diameter, and the price of the stone goes up must faster than the weight. For example, a 0.5ct diamond is only about 20% smaller than a 1ct stone, and costs 70%+ less, all else being equal.
I agree with other posters who suggest going ring shopping with to-be-DW, avoiding malls, buying used, etc. IMO, it is absolutely critical that the two of you get on the same page in terms of what style or price of ring you get. DW-to-be may have an expectation of "wageslave needs to spend $xxx on a ring for me," in which case you overspend on a smaller rock, or you bargain hunt and get a bigger rock, but spend the same number of dollars either way. OR, DW-to-be may have a specific style or size in mind that happens to cost $xxx, and you may be able to find it for $xxx/2 and she'd be ok with it.
Either way, I think the two of you need to sit down (or go out) and you need to get a specific idea of what is expected and what is acceptable.
FWIW, my DW's engagement ring has a .33ct and two .1ct diamonds in a setting I designed myself (and a jeweler made). She appreciated the custom nature of it more than the size of the stones. Her roommate went ring shopping with me to make sure I understood what DW-to-be wanted. We were in college, so "number of months' salary" would have been a laughable thing.
Interesting about the weight to diameter ratio. Yeah, definitely need to do some ring shopping with her to get a better idea. I think we both like the romanticism of surprising her with a ring. But in reality, there are too many variables.
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One thing to consider: The weight of a gemstone is proportional to the cube of the diameter, and the price of the stone goes up must faster than the weight. For example, a 0.5ct diamond is only about 20% smaller than a 1ct stone, and costs 70%+ less, all else being equal.
I agree with other posters who suggest going ring shopping with to-be-DW, avoiding malls, buying used, etc. IMO, it is absolutely critical that the two of you get on the same page in terms of what style or price of ring you get. DW-to-be may have an expectation of "wageslave needs to spend $xxx on a ring for me," in which case you overspend on a smaller rock, or you bargain hunt and get a bigger rock, but spend the same number of dollars either way. OR, DW-to-be may have a specific style or size in mind that happens to cost $xxx, and you may be able to find it for $xxx/2 and she'd be ok with it.
Either way, I think the two of you need to sit down (or go out) and you need to get a specific idea of what is expected and what is acceptable.
FWIW, my DW's engagement ring has a .33ct and two .1ct diamonds in a setting I designed myself (and a jeweler made). She appreciated the custom nature of it more than the size of the stones. Her roommate went ring shopping with me to make sure I understood what DW-to-be wanted. We were in college, so "number of months' salary" would have been a laughable thing.
Interesting about the weight to diameter ratio. Yeah, definitely need to do some ring shopping with her to get a better idea. I think we both like the romanticism of surprising her with a ring. But in reality, there are too many variables.
On the flip side, there's absolutely nothing romantic about wasting money.
What is very romantic?
Making responsible financial decisions together.
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I think moissonite is cool and sparkly. The few I have seen in a store looked different from a diamond, to my eyes anyway. And they do vary, just like diamonds vary.
I wouldn't represent a moissy as a diamond nor even as a diamond substitute—it is its own thing. Stand up and be proud to have a sparkly modern thing!
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Here is a quick, albeit somewhat condescending overview that can get the discussion going:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/it's-here!-the-2019-william-sonoma-hater's-guide!/?action=post;last_msg=2520581
Moissioninte is awesome. It was discovered from a meteorite. It is twice as refractive and tougher (albeit not as hard) as a diamond.
You can still spend money on her to "show her that you love her". We bought a Moissionite and traveled Europe for 6 weeks on the difference in cost between that and a real diamond ($500 vs $5000).
My (then) girlfriend was, as yours appears to be, more worried about what others thought than actually getting a diamond. She just likes things that are sparkly. We determined that she could just say it was a diamond to those few people who asked that she didn't care to explain to. Turns out, no one even really asks!
She might be on board with that idea, she definitely likes to travel.
And the bonus is now she has an album full of picture memories that she looks at more than she wears her ring, especially if you count the ones hung on our walls.
Everyone's different; some people really like diamonds. If she'll get $6K of happiness out of it, that might be the way to go.
But if she's hasn't really sat down and worked through the alternatives, which is something that mustachians tend to do more often, then perhaps she only likes diamonds because it's the societal default (noting that societal default is to work until you're 62). The thing to think about is maximizing your happiness-per-dollar. Using "2 month rule of thumb" things are always weird for things like this. What about the CEOs who have $1 salary? Do they buy a ring worth twenty cents? What about a football player who makes a few million, but over the course of only 5 years. Because their lifetime earnings are front-loaded, they get screwed over by having a higher monthly salary... it's just all so arbitrary.
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This likely won’t be popular, but shop at all the fancy places and definitely know what she likes. Then peruse local pawn shops until you find the perfect ring. My then fiancé did this, and I ended up with a gorgeous ring and we went on a great honeymoon with the savings. Just make sure to get it professionally cleaned (which doesn’t cost much).
She should probably be ok with this approach (not a great idea if she’s superstitious about previous owners), but this worked out great for us, and nobody will ever know the difference.
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There is no reason to buy a new, mined, diamond. No reason at all to support that evil industry. Get a lab diamond, they're cheaper and better. Or a used diamond. Or a lab sapphire.
If your fiancee really cares a lot about the "rules" of engagement rings in this way (especially since she said 1 month's salary), maybe educate her about what that really entails. If she would be embarrassed by a lab diamond or a smaller diamond but not embarrassed that children were enslaved for her vanity, then that says something. There is literally no reason to buy a new natural diamond.
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...There is literally no reason to buy a new natural diamond.
That is literally untrue.
There may not be reasons you accept as *good* reasons, but there are reasons.
Face punching about engagement rings here is common, so carry on. I happen to think the whole experience of buying a diamond ring from a mall store with two months salary to be not the best method of acquiring an engagement ring, but there are hundreds of variations on the theme
The Canadians claim moral purity with their mined diamonds, so that is one route to a new diamond that may mitigate guilt if one is so inclined.
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Update: so I told her that she is going to have to go with me and look at rings so I have an idea of what she wants because there are just too many variables. She said absolutely not, she wants me to pick it out and trusts my judgment. So I guess I will do just that. I'll go pretty traditional and simple and if she doesn't like it - too bad, she dug her own grave🤣
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Update: so I told her that she is going to have to go with me and look at rings so I have an idea of what she wants because there are just too many variables. She said absolutely not, she wants me to pick it out and trusts my judgment. So I guess I will do just that. I'll go pretty traditional and simple and if she doesn't like it - too bad, she dug her own grave🤣
Sigh, I remember feeling that way the first time I was engaged when I was really young. It all seemed so important at the time.
Good luck figuring out what she wants.
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Update: so I told her that she is going to have to go with me and look at rings so I have an idea of what she wants because there are just too many variables. She said absolutely not, she wants me to pick it out and trusts my judgment. So I guess I will do just that. I'll go pretty traditional and simple and if she doesn't like it - too bad, she dug her own grave🤣
Sigh, I remember feeling that way the first time I was engaged when I was really young. It all seemed so important at the time.
Good luck figuring out what she wants.
Haha, thanks Malkynn!
Although I do kind of understand her sentiment. If the roles were reversed I'd probably say the same thing. I wouldn't really care what the ring was. The only tricky part is that I think she doesn't care as long as its within her preconceived parameters and I only have a foggy idea of what those parameters are.
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...There is literally no reason to buy a new natural diamond.
That is literally untrue.
There may not be reasons you accept as *good* reasons, but there are reasons.
Face punching about engagement rings here is common, so carry on. I happen to think the whole experience of buying a diamond ring from a mall store with two months salary to be not the best method of acquiring an engagement ring, but there are hundreds of variations on the theme
The Canadians claim moral purity with their mined diamonds, so that is one route to a new diamond that may mitigate guilt if one is so inclined.
Ok, semantically, you're right. I don't think there is any good reason for a new mined diamond. Even if it isn't a blood diamond, it seems wasteful with energy and money. And the consumer who wants both a new mined diamond and a morally acceptable solution is one I'd assume would be attracted to lab grown or used stones, but what do I know? I do know there is no reason from our position of privilege to support an industry that enslaves children. If you do your due diligence and make sure you don't contribute to it, good - I just wanted to make clear that it is a moral decision as well as a social, societal, and economic one.
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...There is literally no reason to buy a new natural diamond.
That is literally untrue.
There may not be reasons you accept as *good* reasons, but there are reasons.
Face punching about engagement rings here is common, so carry on. I happen to think the whole experience of buying a diamond ring from a mall store with two months salary to be not the best method of acquiring an engagement ring, but there are hundreds of variations on the theme
The Canadians claim moral purity with their mined diamonds, so that is one route to a new diamond that may mitigate guilt if one is so inclined.
Ok, semantically, you're right. I don't think there is any good reason for a new mined diamond. Even if it isn't a blood diamond, it seems wasteful with energy and money. And the consumer who wants both a new mined diamond and a morally acceptable solution is one I'd assume would be attracted to lab grown or used stones, but what do I know? I do know there is no reason from our position of privilege to support an industry that enslaves children. If you do your due diligence and make sure you don't contribute to it, good - I just wanted to make clear that it is a moral decision as well as a social, societal, and economic one.
This is a good response!
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Although I do kind of understand her sentiment. If the roles were reversed I'd probably say the same thing. I wouldn't really care what the ring was. The only tricky part is that I think she doesn't care as long as its within her preconceived parameters and I only have a foggy idea of what those parameters are.
It's not for me to tell other people what's important to them, and everyone is different. I chose to surprise my wife on the ring style and the timing of the proposal, but she was not surprised by the stone type or proposal.
BUT, this is a great opportunity to practice some communication skills. If it were me, I'd prefer to do a bit more digging to see what is important for her. Marriage works best when you're on the same team. If she wants you to surprise her with a ring style that exemplifies your love for her, that sounds fun! Roll with that... but if there are other parameters, you might want to sit down and walk through your concerns. This isn't necessarily a hill to die on, but it's also an important discussion to have... it's about getting on the same page for finances, and it will certainly not be your last conversation about finances! And if it were me, that's how I'd present it. There's no real end "goal" of the conversation other than try to become aware of each others' concerns.
Is is that she's worried that you're not committed if you don't spend enough? Or is it a cultural image that she has of the marriage process? What are her rules and who is making them? Family traditions are more important than ones passed down through TV commercials, for instance. She might just want a good proposal story to tell her friends. A the end of the day, the process isn't just about her, it's about both of you. You're saying yes just as much as she is!
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Update: so I told her that she is going to have to go with me and look at rings so I have an idea of what she wants because there are just too many variables. She said absolutely not, she wants me to pick it out and trusts my judgment. So I guess I will do just that. I'll go pretty traditional and simple and if she doesn't like it - too bad, she dug her own grave🤣
This is similar to what led me to *not* give DW a ring at all when I proposed to her. I got her a custom-made sword instead. She was conflicted about the ring thing (wanted one and did not want one all at the same time, plus the conflicts on the ethics of gemstones). As it turns out she was right -- she trusted my judgement and my judgement said "not ring."
YMMV, but if she's given you that opening, its worth considering if a ring is the right answer. Maybe it isn't?
Edit: That all said, you are probably already on the right track. If you pick a ring and give it an honest effort and she rejects it, consider it "a lot cheaper than divorce later" and move on. Sounds callous, but the numbers don't lie when 40% of marriages end in divorce. I would personally also assume that "trusts my judgement" includes how much to spend, and I wouldn't spend 5k. Again, same story -- if she isn't on the same financial page as you better to find out now and fail early.
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This is similar to what led me to *not* give DW a ring at all when I proposed to her. I got her a custom-made sword instead. She was conflicted about the ring thing (wanted one and did not want one all at the same time, plus the conflicts on the ethics of gemstones). As it turns out she was right -- she trusted my judgement and my judgement said "not ring."
Does she wear her engagement sword to fancy dinners? I hope it came with a scabbard!
... engagement sword is so awesome ...
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Does she wear her engagement sword to fancy dinners? I hope it came with a scabbard!
No and yes, in that order. They are actually kind of a pain in the ass to wear. You have this hard "tail" hanging off one hip that you don't fully control and are not used to so it is easy to bang it in to everything. Doors, walls, chairs, people, pets, etc.
The law get really picky around swords/knives in weird ways that it isn't about, e.g., guns.
Having said that we aren't particularly the type to go to fancy dinners, so that isn't a huge concern for us. Mostly it sits near her side of the bed in the bedroom and gives her warm fuzzies by existing.
DW does rate the inability to have shown it off while engaged as a downside. That's somewhat less relevant now that the time-while-engaged is approaching 3% of how long we've been married.
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Although I do kind of understand her sentiment. If the roles were reversed I'd probably say the same thing. I wouldn't really care what the ring was. The only tricky part is that I think she doesn't care as long as its within her preconceived parameters and I only have a foggy idea of what those parameters are.
It's not for me to tell other people what's important to them, and everyone is different. I chose to surprise my wife on the ring style and the timing of the proposal, but she was not surprised by the stone type or proposal.
BUT, this is a great opportunity to practice some communication skills. If it were me, I'd prefer to do a bit more digging to see what is important for her. Marriage works best when you're on the same team. If she wants you to surprise her with a ring style that exemplifies your love for her, that sounds fun! Roll with that... but if there are other parameters, you might want to sit down and walk through your concerns. This isn't necessarily a hill to die on, but it's also an important discussion to have... it's about getting on the same page for finances, and it will certainly not be your last conversation about finances! And if it were me, that's how I'd present it. There's no real end "goal" of the conversation other than try to become aware of each others' concerns.
Is is that she's worried that you're not committed if you don't spend enough? Or is it a cultural image that she has of the marriage process? What are her rules and who is making them? Family traditions are more important than ones passed down through TV commercials, for instance. She might just want a good proposal story to tell her friends. A the end of the day, the process isn't just about her, it's about both of you. You're saying yes just as much as she is!
I absolutely agree with this.
Either she truly is completely laid back about the whole thing and genuinely will love whatever you give her no matter what you choose, or she's got some romantic notion in her head that you will surprise her with a perfect ring.
We don't know her, so it's impossible for us to say.
However, I would ABSOLUTELY find out if she has opinions about vintage/used rings, diamond stimulants, or other gemstones.
You really REALLY don't want to be spending a few thousand on a fake diamond if she hates that idea. You also really don't want to blow excessive thousands on a mined diamond if she doesn't have a strong preference for them.
If you really, genuinely think that she would be thrilled with anything, then it seems very silly to waste thousands on a piece of jewelry that doesn't really matter to her that much.
If it's the far more likely scenario that she doesn't want to help pick it out because that takes away from the magic and fantasy of it all...
...well, then in my personal opinion, of having been engaged a few times, this is the perfect opportunity to have your first challenging couples finance conversation.
This is a huge sum of money that you are looking to spend. If she has expectations and preferences, she needs to be able to voice them to you.
Being able to discuss important financial decisions is far more romantic than having your boyfriend read your mind and magically surprise you with exactly the style and size of ring that you want.
Or, you could just throw money at the problem, buy her a 1+CT round, brilliant stone with a high quality cut, a good colour, and a decent clarity rating, set in a 4 prong white gold setting, and you will probably be fine because that's the style the vast, overwhelming majority of women want and get.
But that's several thousand more than you *need* to spend to get a large, stunning ring, and it's thousands that then can't be put toward her dress, the wedding, your honeymoon, etc, etc.
And that's what this whole place is about. Not wasting money unnecessarily.
If what she really wants is a large, natural diamond ring and you are happy to pay for it, then cool. However, it's borderline nuts to spend that kind of money on an unethical item that will lose 80-90% of its value the moment you buy it unless it's what you've both decided *together* is the best use of that money.
For that money, if she likes moissanite, you could buy her a large ring, earrings, a necklace, and a bracelet.
Just sayin'
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Also check out Whiteflash.
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Pawn shops are great places to get a quality diamond and then you have it put into any setting she wants. I have been married 3x’s and it was important to me to pick it out. I wear it everyday. The first 2 were modest because we were young and that’s what we could afford. The last time was 20 years ago and I got a.75 marquis with high clarity. It was 6k and worth every penny.
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Pawn shops are great places to get a quality diamond and then you have it put into any setting she wants. I have been married 3x’s and it was important to me to pick it out. I wear it everyday. The first 2 were modest because we were young and that’s what we could afford. The last time was 20 years ago and I got a.75 marquis with high clarity. It was 6k and worth every penny.
Of COURSE you have a marquis! You are my age!
We ladies of a certain age all have the requisite marquis. And I love mine as well, a solitaire in yellow gold.
About ten years ago I bought my ring a present, a white gold enhancer that slips over it for a modern look. So sometimes I wear it with the enhancer, sometimes without.
I think today’s young women are missing out on the ease of having yellow gold jewelry. It requires zero maintenance. With white gold and with platinum, if you want to maintain a shiny look you have to take it to a jeweler for regular dipping or polishing.
But me with my low expectations, I dont do any of that for my white gold or platinum ring. They always look fine to me. My platinum ring is a family ring, it’s been around for more than 100 years and when my mom gave it to me it was not shiny. I never knew that platinum actually could get shiny. I didn’t know that it could be polished. I thought it always looked more or less like pewter Until my friend suggested I get it polished and see the difference.
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Kudos to you for wanting to please her. And some people are more into jewelry than others.
That said, we married 40 years ago this month. We were broke, so went with simple gold wedding bands, and said we'd get the diamond ring later, when we had the money. But when that time came, I wasn't really interested. My plain gold band means more to me and it's no fuss. (His gold band broke years ago, now he wears one of those cheap silicone rings. It works for him.)
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Another option is to check out the cheap but nice CZ rings at Berricle and get an inexpensive placeholder, then shop for a "real" ring with her if you want to.
If she has Pinterest, see if you can find out if she has any ring inspiration pin boards.
Good luck!
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Malkynn knocks it out of the park, once again.
...well, then in my personal opinion, of having been engaged a few times, this is the perfect opportunity to have your first challenging couples finance conversation.
This is a huge sum of money that you are looking to spend. If she has expectations and preferences, she needs to be able to voice them to you.
Being able to discuss important financial decisions is far more romantic than having your boyfriend read your mind and magically surprise you with exactly the style and size of ring that you want.
...although I'm not quite sure what a "diamond stimulant" is :P
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My wife never wears the very nice, white, high clarity diamond engagement ring.
She does wear the (lab grown) white sapphire that I set myself into a sterling ring. Total cost about 2% of the diamond engagement ring.
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Malkynn knocks it out of the park, once again.
...well, then in my personal opinion, of having been engaged a few times, this is the perfect opportunity to have your first challenging couples finance conversation.
This is a huge sum of money that you are looking to spend. If she has expectations and preferences, she needs to be able to voice them to you.
Being able to discuss important financial decisions is far more romantic than having your boyfriend read your mind and magically surprise you with exactly the style and size of ring that you want.
...although I'm not quite sure what a "diamond stimulant" is :P
Lol, damn autocorrect
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Another option is to check out the cheap but nice CZ rings at Berricle and get an inexpensive placeholder, then shop for a "real" ring with her if you want to.
If she has Pinterest, see if you can find out if she has any ring inspiration pin boards.
Good luck!
I always think this is a good idea, but in this case the OP’s girlfriend has indicated what she wants in one regard, and it is for HIM to pick out the ring.
She has been clear about that and he should respect her stated desire since she is so open about ring specifics.
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OMG, so I suppose that this is only tangentially related to the thread, but after I posted here and had googled a few things about diamond alternatives, this ad for fake diamond rings kept popping up on my FB.
I...uh...can't really put into words why the website is so...um...interesting.
Just go check it out.
The rings are cubic zirconia; the website is pretty high quality, and the company is real, but...again...I can't really describe it.
Just go check it out, scroll all the way down and read the content. I'll just wait here shaking my head wondering what the fuck I just read?
https://www.sateur.com/ring/
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If you are in IL I would take her to the jewelry mart in Chicago for a day and look at as many stones as you can. You should be able to find a jeweler you trust as well.
There are many wonderful gems in the world, but diamonds are quite common and boring (aside from colored varieties) and overpriced. Make sure you look at a wide selection of gemstones.
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OMG, so I suppose that this is only tangentially related to the thread, but after I posted here and had googled a few things about diamond alternatives, this ad for fake diamond rings kept popping up on my FB.
I...uh...can't really put into words why the website is so...um...interesting.
Just go check it out.
The rings are cubic zirconia; the website is pretty high quality, and the company is real, but...again...I can't really describe it.
Just go check it out, scroll all the way down and read the content. I'll just wait here shaking my head wondering what the fuck I just read?
https://www.sateur.com/ring/
I looked at that site. Whoah. So they think a DJ Trump satire sells their product? Funny!
I read a fair amount of stuff on their website, lots and lots of words, lots of words! and I don’t know the chemical make up of the stones they’re selling. And the stones are not set in gold because the prices are too low.
This is a Canadian company located in Arizona? Or something like that.
Entire thing is sketchy.
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I looked at that site. Whoah. So they think a DJ Trump satire sells their product? Funny!
[...]
Entire thing is sketchy.
From the website:
"The Satéur brand references Donald and Kim because both world leaders mirror the ideals shared by Satéur. Our products are affordable compared to what’s out there in the market and these representatives were too."
The way I read this, they are bragging that their product is cheap and trashy.
I'm totally put off from the very first, anyway, because their stupid name is not a word that would really exist in French.
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I make jewelry as a hobby, and so follow various online / FB groups where people post photos of their creations. There are some insanely talented people out there that could custom make you a ring. You could have the setting made custom and have a stone of your choosing set locally.
If you're looking to buy a diamond online, look for GIA certification. They are known for providing an honest evaluation of the quality of the stone, and they laser engrave a serial number on the girdle of the stone that you can verify from their website. I'm sure there are others, but here is an online shop that offers GIA certified loose diamonds: https://www.adiamor.com. It looks like they offer good-quality 1.5 carat diamonds for roughly $6500. That's a pretty good price.
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OMG, so I suppose that this is only tangentially related to the thread, but after I posted here and had googled a few things about diamond alternatives, this ad for fake diamond rings kept popping up on my FB.
I...uh...can't really put into words why the website is so...um...interesting.
Just go check it out.
The rings are cubic zirconia; the website is pretty high quality, and the company is real, but...again...I can't really describe it.
Just go check it out, scroll all the way down and read the content. I'll just wait here shaking my head wondering what the fuck I just read?
https://www.sateur.com/ring/
I looked at that site. Whoah. So they think a DJ Trump satire sells their product? Funny!
I read a fair amount of stuff on their website, lots and lots of words, lots of words! and I don’t know the chemical make up of the stones they’re selling. And the stones are not set in gold because the prices are too low.
This is a Canadian company located in Arizona? Or something like that.
Entire thing is sketchy.
I just still can't quite wrap my brain around that site being real. It's so insane.
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One thing I didn't necessarily see mentioned is that over time, what the OP's potential fiancé may want to wear could change.
My husband and I picked out an engagement ring together. We were young and broke, and it took 10 months "same as cash" to pay for that 1/4 carat solitaire. We were so naive we paid too much at a mall store to get it, and I can only be thankful we didn't get talked into something more expensive. I wore that ring for 25 years, until we replaced it with a huge (2.37 CT), gorgeous antique diamond ring. We wanted to buy used, had the money, and were willing to go lower in color to get something beautiful. It's lovely, and really, it hasn't sidetracked us financially. It's a little blip, and we don't take expensive vacations, still live in our starter house, share one car between three adults, and more.
That antique ring needed some refurbishment in 2014, and to have the work done by a qualified jeweler (paid for by the jeweler who sold it to us) meant I was without it for a few months. Rather than going back to my original diamond (the shank is so thin it could break at any moment), we purchased a heavy antique 22K gold wedding band, and it was a complete revelation. I never realized the freedom my husband had by choosing a plain band our entire marriage. I can wear it 24/7 without worrying about showering, swimming, cooking, etc. I don't have to take it off to knead dough or shape pizza. I don't have to worry about banging my hand against something and cracking the stone. I feel so much safer when I walk. I also realized the large ring is a barrier between me and other people, and left me afraid to talk to those less fortunate. Now I walk happily and don't have to think about an expensive diamond on my hand when the homeless downtown want to pet my dogs.
The gold band cost under $300 (prices vary on eBay but I can still find similar bands under $500). I've realized I could have been happy with that band, and only that band, for all of my marriage. To be fair, my 18 year old engaged self wanted the engagement ring, but then again my 18 year old self didn't have a fully developed brain and was just going along with common cultural practices. By age 25, I would have already known better than to choose an engagement ring based on other people's expectations, and wouldn't have been willing to go into debt for it (or to take away from other financial goals).
I know people who've chosen to use the money that might have gone toward an engagement ring (or expensive wedding and honeymoon) to make a downpayment on a house, pay off student loans, buy a car, and more. I hope my own sons choose partners who aren't attached to the idea of an expensive engagement ring.
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One thing I didn't necessarily see mentioned is that over time, what the OP's potential fiancé may want to wear could change.
My husband and I picked out an engagement ring together. We were young and broke, and it took 10 months "same as cash" to pay for that 1/4 carat solitaire. We were so naive we paid too much at a mall store to get it, and I can only be thankful we didn't get talked into something more expensive. I wore that ring for 25 years, until we replaced it with a huge (2.37 CT), gorgeous antique diamond ring. We wanted to buy used, had the money, and were willing to go lower in color to get something beautiful. It's lovely, and really, it hasn't sidetracked us financially. It's a little blip, and we don't take expensive vacations, still live in our starter house, share one car between three adults, and more.
That antique ring needed some refurbishment in 2014, and to have the work done by a qualified jeweler (paid for by the jeweler who sold it to us) meant I was without it for a few months. Rather than going back to my original diamond (the shank is so thin it could break at any moment), we purchased a heavy antique 22K gold wedding band, and it was a complete revelation. I never realized the freedom my husband had by choosing a plain band our entire marriage. I can wear it 24/7 without worrying about showering, swimming, cooking, etc. I don't have to take it off to knead dough or shape pizza. I don't have to worry about banging my hand against something and cracking the stone. I feel so much safer when I walk. I also realized the large ring is a barrier between me and other people, and left me afraid to talk to those less fortunate. Now I walk happily and don't have to think about an expensive diamond on my hand when the homeless downtown want to pet my dogs.
The gold band cost under $300 (prices vary on eBay but I can still find similar bands under $500). I've realized I could have been happy with that band, and only that band, for all of my marriage. To be fair, my 18 year old engaged self wanted the engagement ring, but then again my 18 year old self didn't have a fully developed brain and was just going along with common cultural practices. By age 25, I would have already known better than to choose an engagement ring based on other people's expectations, and wouldn't have been willing to go into debt for it (or to take away from other financial goals).
I know people who've chosen to use the money that might have gone toward an engagement ring (or expensive wedding and honeymoon) to make a downpayment on a house, pay off student loans, buy a car, and more. I hope my own sons choose partners who aren't attached to the idea of an expensive engagement ring.
I know very much how you feel. But sometimes people have to "live it" before they understand it.
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I got my wife this set of engagement and wedding rings for $170 off of Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/listing/233509568/one-of-our-best-sellers-bridal-ring-set?ref=yr_purchases. It's a synthetic diamond. I made sure she was ok with a synthetic diamond before I purchased. She knew we were getting engaged and when, but not how. And if I recall, she knew the final ring I was picking out. She's like half-mustachian and thought it was silly to spend thousands of dollars on a diamond. She was totally happy with the ring I got her. We've had so many people comment on how nice it looks, without even knowing it was not a real diamond. In addition to not having to spend a ton of money on it, it's also nice after-the-fact, because she can wear it whenever she goes out of the house and doesn't have to worry about losing a crazy expensive piece of jewelry.
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oh, oh. I forgot to mention to ask her closest friends what she might like. They may have had these kinds of discussions so they may know what style she likes. My wife's best friend actually had a file to send me when I asked her. She sent me a picture of the desired style. The ring I got didn't match perfectly but it was in the right family at least.
To me this counts as figuring it out yourself as you were smart enough to ask the experts (her friends).
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I got my wife this set of engagement and wedding rings for $170 off of Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/listing/233509568/one-of-our-best-sellers-bridal-ring-set?ref=yr_purchases. It's a synthetic diamond. I made sure she was ok with a synthetic diamond before I purchased. She knew we were getting engaged and when, but not how. And if I recall, she knew the final ring I was picking out. She's like half-mustachian and thought it was silly to spend thousands of dollars on a diamond. She was totally happy with the ring I got her. We've had so many people comment on how nice it looks, without even knowing it was not a real diamond. In addition to not having to spend a ton of money on it, it's also nice after-the-fact, because she can wear it whenever she goes out of the house and doesn't have to worry about losing a crazy expensive piece of jewelry.
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but that's not a synthetic diamond. That's a Cubic Zirconium- a completely different kind of stone. A synthetic diamond is a lab-made diamond which chemically indistinguishable from a mined diamond.
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That antique ring needed some refurbishment in 2014, and to have the work done by a qualified jeweler (paid for by the jeweler who sold it to us) meant I was without it for a few months. Rather than going back to my original diamond (the shank is so thin it could break at any moment), we purchased a heavy antique 22K gold wedding band, and it was a complete revelation. I never realized the freedom my husband had by choosing a plain band our entire marriage. I can wear it 24/7 without worrying about showering, swimming, cooking, etc. I don't have to take it off to knead dough or shape pizza. I don't have to worry about banging my hand against something and cracking the stone. I feel so much safer when I walk. I also realized the large ring is a barrier between me and other people, and left me afraid to talk to those less fortunate. Now I walk happily and don't have to think about an expensive diamond on my hand when the homeless downtown want to pet my dogs.
Similar to the process when we exchanged tungsten carbide 20th anniversary bands. While it was a very expensive material initially, you can get them for $20ish on Amazon, and they're near indestructible. No worrying about the fancy engraved gold band any longer.
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I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but that's not a synthetic diamond. That's a Cubic Zirconium- a completely different kind of stone. A synthetic diamond is a lab-made diamond which chemically indistinguishable from a mined diamond.
Hm. Well, I guess I just assumed synthetic and artificial were interchangeable terms. *shrugs.* Whatever - we were both happy with what we got, which is my point!
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You can have both. I have a plain gold band to go with my beautiful engagement ring. I wear it a lot but not for things like camping. It really depends if you love rings or not. We are all different.
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In addition to the 1.36 diamond for 4900 (great deal) on loupe troop there is an 0.89 e si1 diamond, in ideal cut range for 2900. I think this is a very good compromise. You are getting what she has asked for (beautiful high quality natural diamond) but not paying the mark up to hit the carat mark. Plus preloved is more affordable. a 4 or 6 prong platinum solitaire is the most iconic style (but will set you back another 700 plus setting costs). If u go this way I can't imagine her being unhappy (high quality in all aspects) https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings-natural-diamond-center/ags-0-dot-89-e-si1-gorgeous-diamond-ring I know, I know this is not the most economical. But the op knows his gf the best.
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I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but that's not a synthetic diamond. That's a Cubic Zirconium- a completely different kind of stone. A synthetic diamond is a lab-made diamond which chemically indistinguishable from a mined diamond.
Hm. Well, I guess I just assumed synthetic and artificial were interchangeable terms. *shrugs.* Whatever - we were both happy with what we got, which is my point!
lol, like I said, it is a pedantic point. Simulated diamond is also accurate for your ring ;)
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In addition to the 1.36 diamond for 4900 (great deal) on loupe troop there is an 0.89 e si1 diamond, in ideal cut range for 2900. I think this is a very good compromise. You are getting what she has asked for (beautiful high quality natural diamond) but not paying the mark up to hit the carat mark. Plus preloved is more affordable. a 4 or 6 prong platinum solitaire is the most iconic style (but will set you back another 700 plus setting costs). If u go this way I can't imagine her being unhappy (high quality in all aspects) https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings-natural-diamond-center/ags-0-dot-89-e-si1-gorgeous-diamond-ring I know, I know this is not the most economical. But the op knows his gf the best.
Thanks Partgypsy.
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Short answer: Costco.
More words later.
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Short answer: Costco.
More words later.
Funny, she actually mentioned that they have engagement rings.
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Thanks. I hope you have fun figuring it all out, and I'm hoping she's not expecting it for NYE!
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Thanks. I hope you have fun figuring it all out, and I'm hoping she's not expecting it for NYE!
Haha, I told her that I'm not proposing during the holidays so she wouldn't be expecting it.
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Get Moissanite! It's so much cheaper and you can get a loose stone and custom fit it to your precious metal of choice at a quality local jeweler. I've had my non-diamond for 7 years and love it.
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oh, oh. I forgot to mention to ask her closest friends what she might like. They may have had these kinds of discussions so they may know what style she likes. My wife's best friend actually had a file to send me when I asked her. She sent me a picture of the desired style. The ring I got didn't match perfectly but it was in the right family at least.
To me this counts as figuring it out yourself as you were smart enough to ask the experts (her friends).
+1 I was coming to ask if she had a sister who you could swear to secrecy as your partner-in-crime. A sister or close friend may have a good idea of her style and may understand her expectations better.
I also second the notion of asking your family, or even her family if you're close to any of them. My DH proposed with a ring he got from his grandmother, and it was really a wonderful feeling to know that his whole family endorsed me joining the family by trusting me with their heirloom. My sister's husband proposed with our grandmother's ring, which he got by contacting our mom and asking. So he knew he had our family's endorsement before he proposed. Not quite as old-fashioned as asking her father for permission, but still romantic to have family approval.
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Lot of discussion on Moisannite and CZ stones. I've wanted to pop the question for a little while and my lady is full bore mustachian, to the point that she does not like it when I get anything expensive. So my question is, has anyone ever gone a completely non traditional route...such as a bent wood ring? I know it sounds crazy, but I've been a wood worker (rough furniture carpentry) in the past and she loves old woodwork. I know it probably wouldn't last 40 years, but that's a good reason to crank out multiples to suit her style at the moment. My crazy idea is to give her one every anniversary. I've made one to try out the process....not as easy as it looks, lol-but very fun.
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Durable and Mustachian - plain tungsten carbide bands. Good quality for around $20. I love the slightly darker but still shiny look.
For somewhat fancier looking, you can get the tungsten carbide inlaid with something like Koa wood, or abalone and Koa - which is going to be less durable than 100% tungsten carbide, but should be far more durable than plain wood.
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One thing to keep in mind--carbide rings are very,very difficult to remove in an emergency, e.g. You're injured in a way that makes your fingers swell.
FWIW, DW's fingers swelled during pregnancy,so she couldn't wear her white gold engagement ring and wedding band. I bought a few stainless bands of different sizes off eBay for under $5 each, and nobody seems to notice or care.
At the end of the day, it's a metallic band around your finger,and after the initial oohing and aahing when you get engaged, life's too busy for anyone to care.
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My wife is constantly having women ask to see her ring and compliment it. I went with a 2 ct SI1 F clarity. I literally had 5 diamonds out on the table go pick from that differed in clarity color and price. My buddy and I both kept coming back to the same one. We then had the jeweler mix them up when we turned our back and again came back to the same stone. It turns out I picked the one with less clarity but colorless over much more expensive diamonds rated higher. You really have to see them in person to see how brilliant they are. In the end I spent a lot, my wife was crazy happy and I’m glad I shelled out the money for something spectacular.
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I love this topic b/c I feel like I mustached the shit out of my wife's engagement ring.
Do not:
- buy 1 carat. prices are jacked up at that size b/c it is popular. The price for .9 is way less than 90% of the price for 1ct. And no one will know the difference.
- buy at a retail place in the mall or whatever. Major markup. Avoid at all cost.
Do:
- care about quality. My wife's is very good quality and people notice it compared to their own stones, which are bigger but not as good.
- buy the diamond separate from the setting. Use a diamond broker. Most large cities have them. If you don't live in a large city, grab your best-man and take a road trip to the closest one. You'll likely need a referral so ask around your friends/teammates/colleagues to see if they know of a good broker. Bonus: great story for your wife to tell "oh no he would never buy something at [store in the mall]. He found has a guy in [big city]. He really put thought into this.....he's better than other husbands....etc...etc...." : )
- having said the above, I've heard great things about blue nile. Story isn't as great...but the price will be.
Solid. I did this and the appraised value was $5k above what I spent.
Super Ideal cut, D color, .93ct, very slight inclusion...made the appraisers diamonds look very yellow
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I love this topic b/c I feel like I mustached the shit out of my wife's engagement ring.
Do not:
- buy 1 carat. prices are jacked up at that size b/c it is popular. The price for .9 is way less than 90% of the price for 1ct. And no one will know the difference.
- buy at a retail place in the mall or whatever. Major markup. Avoid at all cost.
Do:
- care about quality. My wife's is very good quality and people notice it compared to their own stones, which are bigger but not as good.
- buy the diamond separate from the setting. Use a diamond broker. Most large cities have them. If you don't live in a large city, grab your best-man and take a road trip to the closest one. You'll likely need a referral so ask around your friends/teammates/colleagues to see if they know of a good broker. Bonus: great story for your wife to tell "oh no he would never buy something at [store in the mall]. He found has a guy in [big city]. He really put thought into this.....he's better than other husbands....etc...etc...." : )
- having said the above, I've heard great things about blue nile. Story isn't as great...but the price will be.
Solid. I did this and the appraised value was $5k above what I spent.
Super Ideal cut, D color, .93ct, very slight inclusion...made the appraisers diamonds look very yellow
I will bet that thing sparkles like an SOB. Smart to stay just a hair below 1 carat.
But appraised value has no meaning, it is just collusion within the diamond industry. Ask the appraiser if he would buy it for the price you paid since that would seem like a good deal.
I say this as someone who completely supports buying a diamond for an engagement ring. I do not regret having one, have had it for 30+ years.Quality counts, your wife will love it forever.
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My wife's engagement ring was semi-custom and made by a jeweler who worked out of a back room in the salon his wife ran. It's a gold ring with a heart-shaped ruby and it cost around $1,600 as I recall. At the time gold prices were much lower, maybe $650 an ounce so between that and our two gold wedding bands it was $2,000 - $2,500.
I found this guy through my best friend's dad who is the kind of person who knows a bunch of people and has a guy for everything. The jeweler worked totally off word of mouth and didn't have a sign because he didn't want to attract thieves. I told him what I was looking for, we looked through some jewelry catalogs and he basically charged $100 over the list price for his labor/minimal markup.
The only downside is my wife rarely wears it anymore because the setting has sometimes caught on clothing or babies so she usually just wears her wedding band.
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Kudos to you for wanting to please her. And some people are more into jewelry than others.
That said, we married 40 years ago this month. We were broke, so went with simple gold wedding bands, and said we'd get the diamond ring later, when we had the money. But when that time came, I wasn't really interested. My plain gold band means more to me and it's no fuss. (His gold band broke years ago, now he wears one of those cheap silicone rings. It works for him.)
I'm a tad surprised no other MMMers are talking about silicone rings. My fiance gave me a silicone ring earlier this year, and I proposed to her with a silicone ring recently. I will be getting her a (probably lab created) diamond ring soon that she/we will pick out, though there is a very good chance I will continue to wear my silicone ring and not get another wedding band. It's comfortable, while symbolizing both my values and our love for each other.
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Kudos to you for wanting to please her. And some people are more into jewelry than others.
That said, we married 40 years ago this month. We were broke, so went with simple gold wedding bands, and said we'd get the diamond ring later, when we had the money. But when that time came, I wasn't really interested. My plain gold band means more to me and it's no fuss. (His gold band broke years ago, now he wears one of those cheap silicone rings. It works for him.)
I'm a tad surprised no other MMMers are talking about silicone rings. My fiance gave me a silicone ring earlier this year, and I proposed to her with a silicone ring recently. I will be getting her a (probably lab created) diamond ring soon that she/we will pick out, though there is a very good chance I will continue to wear my silicone ring and not get another wedding band. It's comfortable, while symbolizing both my values and our love for each other.
A few of my staff have these and love them.
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Update: We went ring shopping together mostly just to get her ring size. The sales lady was super annoying and kept trying to upsell which is to be expected, but very inconsiderate since you are basically setting expectations for one person's gift to another while they are both there. But the experience was helpful because I realized that the only two things that really mattered to future fiance were color (anything I-J looks yellow), size (she liked the 1.5 ct), shape (round). Neither she nor I could tell a difference between cut qualities or inclusions. So I ended up ordering a lab created diamond from Brilliant Earth. 1.5 ct solitaire for $4k. I'm supposed to get it in 2 weeks and there's a 30 day return policy, so I'll make sure it passes the eye test.
**I feel bad for the people that feel like they have to take out a second mortgage in order to meet expectations set by the industry and peers. Its a terrible corruption of a supposedly beautiful event.
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So I ended up ordering a lab created diamond from Brilliant Earth. 1.5 ct solitaire for $4k. I'm supposed to get it in 2 weeks and there's a 30 day return policy, so I'll make sure it passes the eye test.
**I feel bad for the people that feel like they have to take out a second mortgage in order to meet expectations set by the industry and peers. Its a terrible corruption of a supposedly beautiful event.
You spent 4k on a "fake" diamond. I don't think you get to claim the high road here.
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So I ended up ordering a lab created diamond from Brilliant Earth. 1.5 ct solitaire for $4k. I'm supposed to get it in 2 weeks and there's a 30 day return policy, so I'll make sure it passes the eye test.
**I feel bad for the people that feel like they have to take out a second mortgage in order to meet expectations set by the industry and peers. Its a terrible corruption of a supposedly beautiful event.
You spent 4k on a "fake" diamond. I don't think you get to claim the high road here.
What an odd thing to say...
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I'm glad you and your intended were able to find something (beauty, budget) that worked for both of you. I hope it looks great when you receive it.
It is true both natural and ma nmade diamonds have poor resale value. But some things are not bought for their resale value.
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So I ended up ordering a lab created diamond from Brilliant Earth. 1.5 ct solitaire for $4k. I'm supposed to get it in 2 weeks and there's a 30 day return policy, so I'll make sure it passes the eye test.
**I feel bad for the people that feel like they have to take out a second mortgage in order to meet expectations set by the industry and peers. Its a terrible corruption of a supposedly beautiful event.
You spent 4k on a "fake" diamond. I don't think you get to claim the high road here.
What an odd thing to say...
I agree, weird comment. No high road taken, I bought what I think she wants for a price I'm willing to pay. No diamonds are a "good deal" - natural or man made. Yes, I could have bought the same natural diamond for $8k and it might have a resale value of $3k but I'm not buying it for resale value, just looks and meaning.
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So I ended up ordering a lab created diamond from Brilliant Earth. 1.5 ct solitaire for $4k. I'm supposed to get it in 2 weeks and there's a 30 day return policy, so I'll make sure it passes the eye test.
**I feel bad for the people that feel like they have to take out a second mortgage in order to meet expectations set by the industry and peers. Its a terrible corruption of a supposedly beautiful event.
You spent 4k on a "fake" diamond. I don't think you get to claim the high road here.
A lab created diamond isn't "fake", but it certainly isn't a blood diamond either.
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Lot of discussion on Moisannite and CZ stones. I've wanted to pop the question for a little while and my lady is full bore mustachian, to the point that she does not like it when I get anything expensive. So my question is, has anyone ever gone a completely non traditional route...such as a bent wood ring? I know it sounds crazy, but I've been a wood worker (rough furniture carpentry) in the past and she loves old woodwork. I know it probably wouldn't last 40 years, but that's a good reason to crank out multiples to suit her style at the moment. My crazy idea is to give her one every anniversary. I've made one to try out the process....not as easy as it looks, lol-but very fun.
When SO was feeling out if I was ready to be proposed to, he asked what kind of ring I would want. I requested a no stone, bent wood ring. He found me a rosewood with a turquoise inlay. It held up really well for the 9 months of constant wear, loved the look of it! It was very comfortable, too.
For our wedding rings we also went on Etsy--Decided to go for titanium with a copper inlay so I wouldn't have to take it off. I don't really like the look of diamonds, and I wanted a smooth ring that wouldn't catch on my knitting. :) $140 for the wedding ring, I think about $150 for the wooden one.
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Best wishes wageslave! Let us know when you need cheap wedding planning ideas. Note -- the simpler the better!
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Best wishes wageslave! Let us know when you need cheap wedding planning ideas. Note -- the simpler the better!
Thanks! We both agreed that a very small (25 ppl) wedding at a church and then dinner at a restaurant afterwards was the way to go. No bridal party, my brother will marry us, no tuxedo for me.
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I’ll chime in as a female. My fiancé spent $1000 AUD on a Emerald with some cluster diamonds around it and I loved it. Don’t feel pressure to spend so much unless you want to and think she’d appreciate it. I was totally happy and I’m not that frugal.
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You spent 4k on a "fake" diamond. I don't think you get to claim the high road here.
A lab diamond is not "fake". It has the same chemical composition as a mined diamond. Though I do agree OP spent a little much to be pontificating...but my moissy was $2k, so I'm sure there are others who could say the same about me.
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Lot of discussion on Moisannite and CZ stones. I've wanted to pop the question for a little while and my lady is full bore mustachian, to the point that she does not like it when I get anything expensive. So my question is, has anyone ever gone a completely non traditional route...such as a bent wood ring? I know it sounds crazy, but I've been a wood worker (rough furniture carpentry) in the past and she loves old woodwork. I know it probably wouldn't last 40 years, but that's a good reason to crank out multiples to suit her style at the moment. My crazy idea is to give her one every anniversary. I've made one to try out the process....not as easy as it looks, lol-but very fun.
I am interested to hear if you go this route and how it works out. My FI works in the wood products industry and has long wanted a wooden band. We bought a cheap one at a craft fair but he didn't like the fit, and since we would also like it to be durable, we've been trying to look for wood-inlaid rings as a compromise of ideals. *No* jewelry stores we've been to have had anything remotely close to what we've been looking for.
He's wearing a cheap silicone ring for the time being ($10 I want to say for a pack of 3 at Kohl's - I've had my eye on an Enso)
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You spent 4k on a "fake" diamond. I don't think you get to claim the high road here.
A lab diamond is not "fake". It has the same chemical composition as a mined diamond. Though I do agree OP spent a little much to be pontificating...but my moissy was $2k, so I'm sure there are others who could say the same about me.
Again, not pontificating, I would have gone for silicone rings, >$1000 is too much to spend on any piece of jewelry. Just saying how I tried to make the best of a terrible industry. And that I feel bad for people who are on a tight budget but have to stretch in order to meet inflated expectations.
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Best wishes wageslave! Let us know when you need cheap wedding planning ideas. Note -- the simpler the better!
Thanks! We both agreed that a very small (25 ppl) wedding at a church and then dinner at a restaurant afterwards was the way to go. No bridal party, my brother will marry us, no tuxedo for me.
This honestly sounds perfect, something around 25-40 people. I didn't want a big fancy wedding so eloped. But because I eloped I hurt the feelings of my parents. If I had to do it over I would do what you are thinking. AND, if you decide to go to a restaurant to have the wedding dinner DONT tell them it's for a wedding. Say anything else (family reunion, business meeting), otherwise they will put the "wedding" tax on it.
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Lot of discussion on Moisannite and CZ stones. I've wanted to pop the question for a little while and my lady is full bore mustachian, to the point that she does not like it when I get anything expensive. So my question is, has anyone ever gone a completely non traditional route...such as a bent wood ring? I know it sounds crazy, but I've been a wood worker (rough furniture carpentry) in the past and she loves old woodwork. I know it probably wouldn't last 40 years, but that's a good reason to crank out multiples to suit her style at the moment. My crazy idea is to give her one every anniversary. I've made one to try out the process....not as easy as it looks, lol-but very fun.
I am interested to hear if you go this route and how it works out. My FI works in the wood products industry and has long wanted a wooden band. We bought a cheap one at a craft fair but he didn't like the fit, and since we would also like it to be durable, we've been trying to look for wood-inlaid rings as a compromise of ideals. *No* jewelry stores we've been to have had anything remotely close to what we've been looking for.
He's wearing a cheap silicone ring for the time being ($10 I want to say for a pack of 3 at Kohl's - I've had my eye on an Enso)
A quick search shows this. I have no idea how they hold up/feel, but they look attractive.
https://www.happylaulea.com/collections/best-selling-rings/products/black-zirconium-ring-with-hawaiian-koa-wood-offset-inlay-6mm-flat-shape-comfort-fitment
What I think are absolutely gorgeous is mokeme gane, which is creating a wood grain look with different metals. Making it with different gold colors is very durable. Not cheap, but they are hand fabricated and each piece is one of a kind. (just don't get a copper and silver mokeme gane ring...)
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Posting here for several reasons...first of all, to the OP @wageslave23 how did you like it when it arrived? Everything as you expected? Did you order the loose artificial stone or was it already in the setting and everything?
And now to join the crowd of those thinking of proposing and considering rings. We have had some conversations about expectations and such, but I'd like to have more. I believe she is wanting a real stone, but may like something other than a diamond (mainly sapphire) and may or may not be open to used rings. We need to talk about $, such as: how much is embarrassingly low? how much would you be mad if I spent, ie, way too much?
My lady is pretty reasonable as far as $, but also leans more traditional as far as the engagement ring goes. I have plenty of $ I've been saving for this exact reason, but she is pretty broke right now. I'm not sure how all that will translate into what she is expecting me to spend...we'll talk about that.
We have talked about looking at rings together and my plan is to go look for the first time on V-day or Saturday. Please let me know if this is a terrible idea :) We are both very ignorant about the 4 Cs, settings and styles, what we can expect in certain price ranges. Going together to one or a few places should be a lot of education as far as what is out there in general AND what she wants specifically.
?s for the group:
I'm open to looking online, but pretty nervous with something like this. What could make me more comfortable with the process and what to expect? If doing this online, I think I would want to look at new rings only, not loose stones or used stones/rings.
As far as looking at used rings in person, are pawn shops the only option? What about wholesale dealers and smaller retail guys? Do they only deal in new rings, or do they have used ones also?
Thanks all. I'd like to have a conversation with her tonight, especially if we'll spend time looking on Friday/Saturday. Maybe I'll update with the results.
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Posting here for several reasons...first of all, to the OP @wageslave23 how did you like it when it arrived? Everything as you expected? Did you order the loose artificial stone or was it already in the setting and everything?
And now to join the crowd of those thinking of proposing and considering rings. We have had some conversations about expectations and such, but I'd like to have more. I believe she is wanting a real stone, but may like something other than a diamond (mainly sapphire) and may or may not be open to used rings. We need to talk about $, such as: how much is embarrassingly low? how much would you be mad if I spent, ie, way too much?
My lady is pretty reasonable as far as $, but also leans more traditional as far as the engagement ring goes. I have plenty of $ I've been saving for this exact reason, but she is pretty broke right now. I'm not sure how all that will translate into what she is expecting me to spend...we'll talk about that.
We have talked about looking at rings together and my plan is to go look for the first time on V-day or Saturday. Please let me know if this is a terrible idea :) We are both very ignorant about the 4 Cs, settings and styles, what we can expect in certain price ranges. Going together to one or a few places should be a lot of education as far as what is out there in general AND what she wants specifically.
?s for the group:
I'm open to looking online, but pretty nervous with something like this. What could make me more comfortable with the process and what to expect? If doing this online, I think I would want to look at new rings only, not loose stones or used stones/rings.
As far as looking at used rings in person, are pawn shops the only option? What about wholesale dealers and smaller retail guys? Do they only deal in new rings, or do they have used ones also?
Thanks all. I'd like to have a conversation with her tonight, especially if we'll spend time looking on Friday/Saturday. Maybe I'll update with the results.
Haflander - couple of things I learned:
1. Don't go together. Ask her if she has any specific wants like white gold, rose gold, princess cut, round cut, etc. If she needs to go looking in order to see what she likes, let her go by herself and report back. Don't go together on V day - it could potentially ruin your day.
2. I ordered from Brilliant Earth. I went with the lab created diamond, absolutely no difference between it and natural diamond. It was S2, H color (I-J you can start to see a hint of yellow), 1.74 ct, round cut, ideal cut (we could not tell a difference in quality of cut between good, ideal, super ideal). I ended returning it because there was an inclusion that was sort of noticeable by the naked eye. Otherwise it looked amazing! I ended up showing her the ring to see if she liked it and she LOVED it! I ordered the diamond set in the ring, returned it within their 30 day window, so no risk. Now I know exactly what I want. S1, H color, about 1.5 ct. Total is about $4k. Looks exactly like the $15k diamonds we looked at in the store.
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That's the thing, we don't know anything about cuts. I've asked her a few times to look online and she keeps saying she wants to go in person. I don't think she'll go alone..."that's not romantic" and on top of that, I think the salesmen would inflate expectations. If I'm there I think they will chill out a bit with a few stern looks from me. I was viewing the V-day thing as a romantic gesture on my part, but I do see how it could backfire...I'll have to think about that.
Thanks for the info about the online process, very helpful.
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That's the thing, we don't know anything about cuts. I've asked her a few times to look online and she keeps saying she wants to go in person. I don't think she'll go alone..."that's not romantic" and on top of that, I think the salesmen would inflate expectations. If I'm there I think they will chill out a bit with a few stern looks from me. I was viewing the V-day thing as a romantic gesture on my part, but I do see how it could backfire...I'll have to think about that.
Thanks for the info about the online process, very helpful.
Go look together at Costco. Small (not overwhelming) selection, great prices, and no salespeople. You can get in free if you're not a member by saying you want to check out the pharmacy. They'll let you in easily and they don't give a rip where you go. You can also buy a lovely Valentine's meal at the Food Court. The tables are red and white, so the ambiance is perfect. Just pay cash, they don't check for membership.
If you fall in love with something, you can join on the spot. Just google their membership requirents and have whatever you need in your pocket. However, the mustachian move would be to wait, open a Costco CC and a membership, then buy, thus maxing out the available rebates. There could be someone in the store shilling Executive Memberships and/or CC's so ask them.
And since it's Costco CC rebate time, here's a slightly off-topic PSA: Never, ever use your rebate check to pay for something in the warehouse. Cash it out (it's easy) and keep charging to accrue even more ca$h rebates. Of course you won't fritter away the cash elsewhere. You're welcome.
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That's the thing, we don't know anything about cuts. I've asked her a few times to look online and she keeps saying she wants to go in person. I don't think she'll go alone..."that's not romantic" and on top of that, I think the salesmen would inflate expectations. If I'm there I think they will chill out a bit with a few stern looks from me. I was viewing the V-day thing as a romantic gesture on my part, but I do see how it could backfire...I'll have to think about that.
Thanks for the info about the online process, very helpful.
You should be alright then. As long as you are aware going into it that it will be a battle between you and the salesperson to manage expectations!
ETA: Actually you probably should go with in order to manage expectations. Just don't expect it to be "romantic".
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That's the thing, we don't know anything about cuts. I've asked her a few times to look online and she keeps saying she wants to go in person. I don't think she'll go alone..."that's not romantic" and on top of that, I think the salesmen would inflate expectations. If I'm there I think they will chill out a bit with a few stern looks from me. I was viewing the V-day thing as a romantic gesture on my part, but I do see how it could backfire...I'll have to think about that.
Thanks for the info about the online process, very helpful.
You should be alright then. As long as you are aware going into it that it will be a battle between you and the salesperson to manage expectations!
Oh yeah. I kind of enjoy the battle in a weird way. I'm expecting it to be like the slimy used car salesmen, only with the loooooove factor thrown in.
"You can't put a price on love!" "Maybe so, but I sure as hell can put a price on a house down payment or a car, which is what we'll be doing with the remainder."
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That's the thing, we don't know anything about cuts. I've asked her a few times to look online and she keeps saying she wants to go in person. I don't think she'll go alone..."that's not romantic" and on top of that, I think the salesmen would inflate expectations. If I'm there I think they will chill out a bit with a few stern looks from me. I was viewing the V-day thing as a romantic gesture on my part, but I do see how it could backfire...I'll have to think about that.
Thanks for the info about the online process, very helpful.
You should be alright then. As long as you are aware going into it that it will be a battle between you and the salesperson to manage expectations!
Oh yeah. I kind of enjoy the battle in a weird way. I'm expecting it to be like the slimy used car salesmen, only with the loooooove factor thrown in.
"You can't put a price on love!" "Maybe so, but I sure as hell can put a price on a house down payment or a car, which is what we'll be doing with the remainder."
Exactly! Maybe have this conversation with her before going. I had it after. I told her I'm willing to spend a lot more on you, you mean a lot more to me than a few thousand dollars. I want you to ultimately be happy with the ring and proud to wear it, but just keep in mind that the more money that is spent on the ring the less that is available for X, Y, and Z. I also asked, do you really want to be wearing a $10k+ ring and the stigma that brings with it, especially around friends and family who don't have a lot of money? That way you take the "this is how much our love is worth" bullshit out of the equation.
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Yes. My lady is also a teacher and artsy person...activities I imagine would make a gaudy ring more than inconvenient on a day-to-day basis.
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@haflander If you go looking for a ring on Valentine's Day, I think you have consumer sucka written all over you.
Just MHO.
Find a freaking well-rated local jewelry store (Google reviews, Yelp, etc.) if you are going to shop in person. Don't even THINK of going to the mall.
I think online gives people a lot more choices and options. Cut is everything in terms of sparkle. Just find out what shape she likes and then go online to learn about the best cut proportions, etc. etc. etc. Pricescope has an amazing diamond and simulant forum.
Focus on learning her style and emphasize "just looking". No impulse purchase crap!
Now this is likely to leave her disappointed since it's Valentine's Day and everyone will be looking at you to whip out a credit card to be a hero. Forget it. You are going to have so much freaking pressure on you it's ridiculous.
My husband and I went to look at a car on his B-day and it sold before we could get to the dealership. He was sad. It was a shitty birthday. We found a better car later but still the expectation was there and he was disappointed. You can't tell me that your woman won't be sad to "just look" on Valentine's day. For goodness sakes. And you will have no negotiating power whatsoever.
Find her style. That's it. Make sure she knows you aren't buying today.
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Good thoughts.
We talked about it last night and I learned a lot about what she is wanting in broad terms such as $ and talking about just looking for now. She doesn't know any specifics about what she wants and we can figure that out when looking.
I don't think she would be disappointed. She was honestly really happy that I wanted us to go look together. We are pretty low-key with holidays and gifts and stuff, so she knows there would be 0% chance of actually buying something. She would probably think I was stupid if I fell for it and bought something right then and there. I trust my lady when she says she won't be affected if we didn't buy something. I even specifically asked her if she was cool with just looking on V-day and she said yeah. Maybe I shouldn't trust what she says...(you can't understand women!?!) but only years of wisdom and age that comes with being married to her would answer that question.
I think she is getting sick right now, so the looking may be on hold for a day or three anyway. I'm just glad we had a conversation last night. She was really reasonable as far as $ expectations go. Numbers are relative and mean different things to us right now, because she's broke and I have some savings.
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My wife and I agreed on a used ring. We got a really nice platinum circa 1940 ring with ~0.5ct for ~$2200. We love the story of the ring way more than any new ring, and we found it in a local shop specializing in vintage rings. Amazingly, vintage engagement rings are cheaper than new ones.
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@halflander, I think the people on the Pricescope forums are diamond geniuses. Actually, they are diamond nerds and can help you with all the specs and finding a good value.
A ring is *a lot* about the setting. You can also look at a lot of photos of settings online and she should try some things on in a highly-rated local store with a good reputation. It's possible to buy a ring local and you should get good service, but the online world has made so much difference in consumer information and access.
Custom rings are also special and there are a lot of very well reputed designers that you can access online too.
But it's all about making some decisions about style and budget, etc.
Have fun with it and happy Valentine's Day weekend!
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@haflander If you go looking for a ring on Valentine's Day, I think you have consumer sucka written all over you.
Just MHO.
Find a freaking well-rated local jewelry store (Google reviews, Yelp, etc.) if you are going to shop in person. Don't even THINK of going to the mall.
I think online gives people a lot more choices and options. Cut is everything in terms of sparkle. Just find out what shape she likes and then go online to learn about the best cut proportions, etc. etc. etc. Pricescope has an amazing diamond and simulant forum.
Focus on learning her style and emphasize "just looking". No impulse purchase crap!
Now this is likely to leave her disappointed since it's Valentine's Day and everyone will be looking at you to whip out a credit card to be a hero. Forget it. You are going to have so much freaking pressure on you it's ridiculous.
My husband and I went to look at a car on his B-day and it sold before we could get to the dealership. He was sad. It was a shitty birthday. We found a better car later but still the expectation was there and he was disappointed. You can't tell me that your woman won't be sad to "just look" on Valentine's day. For goodness sakes. And you will have no negotiating power whatsoever.
Find her style. That's it. Make sure she knows you aren't buying today.
ditto. If you want to find a recommended jeweler in your area, look here. https://www.pricescope.com/jewelers
The website has a tone of information about how to educate yourself about cut quality, and what the 4 c's mean, etc. Sometimes you can find really beautiful rings at antique stores (and yes, even pawn stores). You may not know as much information about the stone, etc, but it may be another place to look.
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We got a ring on Craigslist for $2500 1ct diamond--had a jeweler check it out.
I eventually lost it, as unfortunately I have to take off ring at work frequently. Decided to get a ring on ebay. It is has a pink stone--morganite, which I liked, and was only about $200.
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My wife lost her engagement ring months after I gave it to her. Years later and happily married, we don't care. Please consider this is possibly the least most important purchasing decision in your life.
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We got a ring on Craigslist for $2500 1ct diamond--had a jeweler check it out.
I eventually lost it, as unfortunately I have to take off ring at work frequently. Decided to get a ring on ebay. It is has a pink stone--morganite, which I liked, and was only about $200.
Phew! I had to read that twice, as I saw "milorganite" the first time.
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Totally forgot to update. We went and looked over the weekend, but not on Vday itself. We have done a lot of learning and looking and thinking since then. We've agreed on a $ amount that we'd feel comfortable spending/wearing. After some inconsistent initial preferences, she's settled on liking the idea of a princess cut on a mostly solitaire or pretty simple setting (for now). A lot of the bigger and flashier options have been completely ruled out as she says they're too much. On the other hand, she's also completely against anything artificial, even chemically identical lab-grown diamonds. Surprisingly, she's ok with used diamonds, although I do want to talk to her again about that. That would enable us to get something bigger and higher graded than we could on our # with a new diamond.
As for everyone saying the Vday thing was a bad idea? It was fine. I chose to listen to my lady and talk about our expectations, and trusted when she said that she'd be cool with it and liked the idea. She's been really happy that we're looking and thinking about this together.
I'm close to cutting SO out of the process and looking at some smaller places on my own, as well as recruited my sis to help me. She's close with the gf, got married a few years ago, and has a similar ring, even though it's a moissanite. I'm also going to start asking friends for their ring guy, so I can visit a few and settle down on one. I'd like to start actually making some progress on The Ring, because...
I don't think I mentioned it, but I'm thinking about popping the ? on our vacation in mid/late April. No changes in our plans (Dallas to Madrid/Barcelona through Atlanta) due to coronavirus, yet. That would put us about six weeks away. Doable in the jewelry world, but I do need to get my act together. The numbers we've talked about are anywhere between 2 and 5k, probably depending on if the diamond is used or new. That number isn't a problem for me and I could pay cash, but may think about doing a 0% interest deal if they have it. I could use some credit score building right now.
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If you were to get a lab-grown diamond, how would SO ever know? Yes, I know it's a terrible, horrible idea to substitute it without her permission.
I'm curious about what SO's objection to a lab-grown diamond would be.
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I have a similar thing (against) manmade. It's like wanting an original print even if is poorer quality, than a beautiful reprint of same piece of art. It's not rational, just is.
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I think the general objections are culture and a conversation with her mom (altho I like her and that family is quite reasonable) have reinforced what she already thought. I asked if she was fine with the whole blood diamond thing and she said yes. I asked why exactly she wanted a mined diamond and she said something along the lines of "it's more special if it's from the earth/natural." I've also asked a few things such as, "do you think that'll be important to you in 20 years?" That has turned out to be a bad idea...the suggestion that a middle-aged version of her would be more sensible and not care as much is both incorrect (I'm skeptical about this) and insulting, I guess.
You're right, she would absolutely not know the difference, but that's not really the way I want to start our marriage :) On the other hand, if I choose the wrong ring guy, he could fool ME into selling me a lab-grown for a mined price and give me fake paperwork, and no one other than him would know the difference. I guess maybe it would be revealed if I got it appraised, but maybe they wouldn't be able to tell either.
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The thing is many diamonds you think are new are used. Jewelers buy used diamonds and put them into new settings all the time. I would buy a nice diamond at a pawn shop and have it set into a new setting. They will melt down the gold and remake it into anything you want.
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The thing is many diamonds you think are new are used. Jewelers buy used diamonds and put them into new settings all the time. I would buy a nice diamond at a pawn shop and have it set into a new setting. They will melt down the gold and remake it into anything you want.
That's exactly true. And what often happens is old diamonds if the cut is wonky, are recut and then given a new grading report. No way to know how old or how many times a diamond has been around the block, other than provenance (tracing whose hands it's gone through). Oldest mined diamonds were from India, then south America, then Africa starting in mid/late 1800's. Diamonds are currently mined in those countries in addition to Russia, Canada, and Australia.
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If she wants a "from the ground" diamond and you don't want a blood diamond, you could always go Canadian. Although given the geology, any diamond mine has ecological effects. Older diamond seems a good way to go.
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I don't care about it so much. I want her to actually think about it for more than 2 seconds, which has proven difficult. If you map out all of the options and still decide that you want mined, cool. But I haven't been able to bring up the topic without her being automatically dismissive about artificial ones.
There are a lot of "choose your battle" type decisions in long-term relationships and marriage, and maybe this is one of them.
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I don't care about it so much. I want her to actually think about it for more than 2 seconds, which has proven difficult. If you map out all of the options and still decide that you want mined, cool. But I haven't been able to bring up the topic without her being automatically dismissive about artificial ones.
There are a lot of "choose your battle" type decisions in long-term relationships and marriage, and maybe this is one of them.
They are not "artificial" in that sense - chemically and structurally they are identical. The only difference is where the heat and pressure were applied to the carbon - in the earth or in a lab. Synthetic would be a more accurate description.
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...whether it is "artificial" has nothing to do with whether they are identical. The definition on Merriam-Webster, which is the dictionary I use as an editor, is "humanly contrived, often on a natural model; man-made." In that sense, lab-grown diamonds are definitely artificial.
I'll grant you that synthetic is also an accurate description in this case.
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Just to be completely pendantic man made diamonds can be accurately called synthetic/lab created/man-made diamonds. They ARE diamonds (chemically, compositionally etc) and all equivalent ways of saying the same thing. If you are a jeweler you have to disclose or state that the diamond is man made. Otherwise be accused of fraud/be in trouble with the law.
If you see something that says simulated diamond, that can refer to cz, moissanite, Austrian crystal, or any number of things. NOT a diamond. Simulating or imitating a diamond in appearance/optical or other properties.
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Princess cuts are kind of a bitch for light reflection. I would suggest looking online at the ideal princess cuts.
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/why-are-there-so-few-ideal-cut-princess-diamonds-on-the-market-1267.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/princess-diamond/
You want a stone that does not look like crap and with princess cuts your odds of a not so great cut are higher.
I have a not so great princess and if I could change one thing, it would be to get the stone cut right (aka replace the stone)
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Thanks KBecks, I didn't know anything about that. Definitely something to consider.
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... I asked if she was fine with the whole blood diamond thing and she said yes. I asked why exactly she wanted a mined diamond and she said something along the lines of "it's more special if it's from the earth/natural." ...
Uh, I'd have a HUGE issue if my SO was okay with supporting murderous regimes, child labor, and slaves to acquire a shiny rock. That doesn't speak well to her values. You can have a natural from the ground diamond that doesn't come from an area where they are mined to support outright human abuse. I personally would refuse to purchase such a diamond on my own ethical grounds. Especially when there are natural alternatives, not even mentioning lab grown diamonds, that can be compromised on.
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... I asked if she was fine with the whole blood diamond thing and she said yes. I asked why exactly she wanted a mined diamond and she said something along the lines of "it's more special if it's from the earth/natural." ...
Uh, I'd have a HUGE issue if my SO was okay with supporting murderous regimes, child labor, and slaves to acquire a shiny rock. That doesn't speak well to her values. You can have a natural from the ground diamond that doesn't come from an area where they are mined to support outright human abuse. I personally would refuse to purchase such a diamond on my own ethical grounds. Especially when there are natural alternatives, not even mentioning lab grown diamonds, that can be compromised on.
+1. I would definitely have a problem with this too. Strikes me as utterly selfish and privileged.
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I think it has more to do with her NOT wanting anything artificial and me NOT wanting to pay a premium for something certified ethical or Canadian or whatever. The only remaining choice is a mined diamond from unknown origins. If anybody has a better solution, I'm all ears.
I'd also like to hear if there is anyone out there who met someone perfect for them and thought the natural (yet modest) diamond thing was a deal-breaker. Prove me wrong! We're not talking about insisting on a 100k ring like that thread from a long time ago.
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Haf, your girlfriend’s expectations are reasonable. If something like a reasonably priced ring was a dealbreaker that person wasn’t committed and in love.
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I think it has more to do with her NOT wanting anything artificial and me NOT wanting to pay a premium for something certified ethical or Canadian or whatever. The only remaining choice is a mined diamond from unknown origins.
What about a a ring from https://www.idonowidont.com/ (https://www.idonowidont.com/)?
She gets a "natural" diamond, your wallet is happy, and diamond waste is minimized. Win win win?
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Haf, your girlfriend’s expectations are reasonable. If something like a reasonably priced ring was a dealbreaker that person wasn’t committed and in love.
Mmmmm... that entirely depends on what you're requiring them to spend the $ on. If you told a vegan they had to buy $5K of premium steak to prove they were in love, they wouldn't contest on the basis of the cost, they'd contest where the funds were going. Whereas a meat eater might find that gift appealing and romantic.
For some people, spending any $ on jewelry is preposterous when you're not yet financially independent; that $ could go toward securing your lives together better. For others the gesture is encouraged and applauded. But you can't make a blanket judgement on commitment and love on the basis of buying a ring.
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... I asked if she was fine with the whole blood diamond thing and she said yes. I asked why exactly she wanted a mined diamond and she said something along the lines of "it's more special if it's from the earth/natural." ...
Uh, I'd have a HUGE issue if my SO was okay with supporting murderous regimes, child labor, and slaves to acquire a shiny rock. That doesn't speak well to her values. You can have a natural from the ground diamond that doesn't come from an area where they are mined to support outright human abuse. I personally would refuse to purchase such a diamond on my own ethical grounds. Especially when there are natural alternatives, not even mentioning lab grown diamonds, that can be compromised on.
Yes, I'm sure she phrased it that way, that she PREFERS a blood diamond over any other diamond possibly acquired. I'm sure that's what she meant. PS, it's 2020, not 2006 when the movie was made. The movie "Blood Diamond" while definitely highlighting a terrible human rights issue, was considered out of date by the time it was released, in that many changes had already been made to prevent human rights abuses and use of diamond money for terrorism (The Kimberly process was agreed to in 2002, 4 years before the movie came out).
If you want to talk about blood diamonds you also have to recognize thousands of Africans earn a living and support their families by working in the diamond trade. Boycotting diamonds may make you feel morally superior but also puts these people out of work. The problem is not the diamonds. Whether it is diamonds, gold, precious or rare minerals including the minerals used to make your smart phone, or the gas you put in your car, what the outcome for the people and workers is about the governments and presence or lack of human rights in these countries. Consumers can make a difference. But to be honest most of us do not know where the raw materials and components of many products we consume actually comes from (clothing, cars, phones and other electronics and yes jewelry). Anyways, it is easy enough if someone wants a mined diamond, to avoid buying a conflict diamond. Not so easy for many other things us Americans routinely buy but don't give a 2nd thought to.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/blood-diamonds-myth/
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I think it has more to do with her NOT wanting anything artificial and me NOT wanting to pay a premium for something certified ethical or Canadian or whatever. The only remaining choice is a mined diamond from unknown origins. If anybody has a better solution, I'm all ears.
I'd also like to hear if there is anyone out there who met someone perfect for them and thought the natural (yet modest) diamond thing was a deal-breaker. Prove me wrong! We're not talking about insisting on a 100k ring like that thread from a long time ago.
Make sense, and I wanted to apologize for my unnecessarily harsh words. I was projecting my own dislike of the diamond industry here. Valuing natural is obviously not equivalent to directly endorsing bad things, and I see that it's the price point causing the issue.
Yes, I'm sure she phrased it that way, that she PREFERS a blood diamond over any other diamond possibly acquired. I'm sure that's what she meant. PS, it's 2020, not 2006 when the movie was made. The movie "Blood Diamond" while definitely highlighting a terrible human rights issue, was considered out of date by the time it was released, in that many changes had already been made to prevent human rights abuses and use of diamond money for terrorism (The Kimberly process was agreed to in 2002, 4 years before the movie came out).
If you want to talk about blood diamonds you also have to recognize thousands of Africans earn a living and support their families by working in the diamond trade. Boycotting diamonds may make you feel morally superior but also puts these people out of work. The problem is not the diamonds. Whether it is diamonds, gold, precious or rare minerals including the minerals used to make your smart phone, or the gas you put in your car, what the outcome for the people and workers is about the governments and presence or lack of human rights in these countries. Consumers can make a difference. But to be honest most of us do not know where the raw materials and components of many products we consume actually comes from (clothing, cars, phones and other electronics and yes jewelry). Anyways, it is easy enough if someone wants a mined diamond, to avoid buying a conflict diamond. Not so easy for many other things us Americans routinely buy but don't give a 2nd thought to.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/blood-diamonds-myth/
Thanks for pointing this out! It's a good point that I have a cell phone (which has a highly dubious supply chain) and wear cheap clothes from Costco (probably produced in a sweatshop.) I think it's important to research the ethics of the companies we deal with and to support steps to protect human rights. If diamond mining is now safe and fair, then it is no skin off my nose if people choose to spend their money on them. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, as they say. We all just try to make the best choice available with the funds and needs we have.
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Maybe obvious, but I was in the middle of looking and shopping for a ring on my own when things shut down. I have a pretty good idea of what she wants. Of course, the vacay is scrapped also. Delta even canceled the flight on their own, which made the refund process pretty simple.
I've been really bummed about the whole thing for the past month, for mostly selfish reasons. Today, I would have been packing for a big trip and finding a place to squirrel away the ring in the luggage and waiting for the perfect moment like in the movies.
Alas, it's been put on hold with just about everything else. Jewelry stores are exactly the kind of thing (I imagine) that should stay closed longer than anything else. Perfect place to spread germs.
I guess I could take this opportunity to go the online route, but I'd rather not. I'll just have to wait until all the retails stores are open again. May actually not be that long (Texas).
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Here's a thought. How about spending a small amount on some type of left field ring online such as wood or inlaid titanium or something and giving it to her along with a promise that she can have the diamond one when the lockdown is over?
It avoids having to put everything on hold for an unknown time and, if you're really lucky, she might love it so much that she decides she doesn't need the diamond after all.
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I really like the "promise ring" approach. Example:
https://www.amazon.com/Platinum-Sterling-Solitaire-Engagement-Swarovski/dp/B01MYCAOTI?th=1
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Sorry, late to this game, but I just declared FI and left full time work earlier this week. It took seven years to get there making good money and having a head start (and a better half that got to keep family health insurance in retirement). I cannot fathom being months or even years behind getting to where I am now because we went down rabbit holes like "pretty rocks".
A good friend once said you can have anything you want, you can't have everything you want. If you are looking at spending thousands on the engagement ring, I do hope you and the future missus are making big coin to offset and paper over such a splurge (if so, grats). And if not, I have to wonder about whether this site is right for the newly wed couple when the freaking warm-up ring is a four digit proposition. Sorry to be judgy, but in an MMM forum there are going to be lots of folks with values like mine. You need to figure out your monetary values as a couple and be comfortable with it, and good luck.
(My daughter is fairly frugal but got a shiny rock for her engagement/wedding last year. Now she and hubby are saving for a down payment for a house. They would be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars closer to having a house instead of a pretty rock if they had made a different decision about an engagement ring.)
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A good friend once said you can have anything you want, you can't have everything you want. If you are looking at spending thousands on the engagement ring, I do hope you and the future missus are making big coin to offset and paper over such a splurge (if so, grats). And if not, I have to wonder about whether this site is right for the newly wed couple when the freaking warm-up ring is a four digit proposition. Sorry to be judgy, but in an MMM forum there are going to be lots of folks with values like mine. You need to figure out your monetary values as a couple and be comfortable with it, and good luck.
Eh? The "warm up ring" I posted is only "4 digits" if you count the pennies. It's $25.
Plus, I'm hoping she gets sentimental about it and drops the whole "I wanna blood diamond" thing.
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(My daughter is fairly frugal but got a shiny rock for her engagement/wedding last year. Now she and hubby are saving for a down payment for a house. They would be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars closer to having a house instead of a pretty rock if they had made a different decision about an engagement ring.)
Most people, even somewhat frugal ones, can't see past the end of their nose on the engagement ring issue. I can definitely see the silent competition between intelligent women over their rings. I can tell that I'm pitied for not having a nice, pricey diamond and they'd never believe that I don't like/want one so it's never been discussed.
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My DW used hand-me-down rings from her grandmother. Cost $0.
Rocks used to be A LOT smaller back in the day. Neither of us care.
The savings has been compounding in VTSAX for 8 years. We were meant to be. :)
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I inherited a nice ring from my stepmom, 1 from my great grandmother, one from my grandmother, and I will inherit one from my mother. Honestly I only like 2 of them- the 1920s vintage ring from my great grandmother, and the ring with the nice setting from my stepmom. I probably will ask family if they want the others for free, and if they don’t I will probably sell them. Why not ask family if any old rings are lying around that you could have or buy? Or you can probably go to a pawn shop and get a nice used one.
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I inherited a nice ring from my stepmom, 1 from my great grandmother, one from my grandmother, and I will inherit one from my mother. Honestly I only like 2 of them- the 1920s vintage ring from my great grandmother, and the ring with the nice setting from my stepmom. I probably will ask family if they want the others for free, and if they don’t I will probably sell them. Why not ask family if any old rings are lying around that you could have or buy? Or you can probably go to a pawn shop and get a nice used one.
My husband got my engagement ring from a pawn shop. I wasn't really big on engagement rings at all before, but I ended up loving what he picked so much that I still wear it all the time. Most women in my family don't wear their engagement rings except for special occasions.
But I'm not sure if that'll work here if the intended is really set on the "traditional" ring. I would've been upset if my husband had spent that much on a ring, especially since we'd talked about it before. So that's a pretty different mindset to compare.
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(My daughter is fairly frugal but got a shiny rock for her engagement/wedding last year. Now she and hubby are saving for a down payment for a house. They would be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars closer to having a house instead of a pretty rock if they had made a different decision about an engagement ring.)
Most people, even somewhat frugal ones, can't see past the end of their nose on the engagement ring issue. I can definitely see the silent competition between intelligent women over their rings. I can tell that I'm pitied for not having a nice, pricey diamond and they'd never believe that I don't like/want one so it's never been discussed.
I see the same thing with guys and their vehicles. There are lots of threads in this forum about the awesome cars that guys splurge on. Which is 100% fine if that is your thing and you can pay your bills, I simply equate these sorts of discussions as going to a vegan get-together and asking about whether vinegar or tomato based barbecue is best.
(It's vinegar.)
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Sorry, late to this game, but I just declared FI and left full time work earlier this week. It took seven years to get there making good money and having a head start (and a better half that got to keep family health insurance in retirement). I cannot fathom being months or even years behind getting to where I am now because we went down rabbit holes like "pretty rocks".
A good friend once said you can have anything you want, you can't have everything you want. If you are looking at spending thousands on the engagement ring, I do hope you and the future missus are making big coin to offset and paper over such a splurge (if so, grats). And if not, I have to wonder about whether this site is right for the newly wed couple when the freaking warm-up ring is a four digit proposition. Sorry to be judgy, but in an MMM forum there are going to be lots of folks with values like mine. You need to figure out your monetary values as a couple and be comfortable with it, and good luck.
(My daughter is fairly frugal but got a shiny rock for her engagement/wedding last year. Now she and hubby are saving for a down payment for a house. They would be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars closer to having a house instead of a pretty rock if they had made a different decision about an engagement ring.)
I think you are kind of exaggerating a bit, depending on the individual.
My engagement ring was $3000. Back in the mid-1990s. (a princess cut! I like it! Don't care if it's not perfect!)
I've now been married nearly 24 years. That $3000 is literally a drop in the bucket over 24 years. What is not a drop in the bucket? A global pandemic.
It's a nothing-burger.
A $5000 ring if you can't make rent? A $10k ring when you are saving for a down-payment on a house? Eh maybe.
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(My daughter is fairly frugal but got a shiny rock for her engagement/wedding last year. Now she and hubby are saving for a down payment for a house. They would be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars closer to having a house instead of a pretty rock if they had made a different decision about an engagement ring.)
Most people, even somewhat frugal ones, can't see past the end of their nose on the engagement ring issue. I can definitely see the silent competition between intelligent women over their rings. I can tell that I'm pitied for not having a nice, pricey diamond and they'd never believe that I don't like/want one so it's never been discussed.
I see the same thing with guys and their vehicles. There are lots of threads in this forum about the awesome cars that guys splurge on. Which is 100% fine if that is your thing and you can pay your bills, I simply equate these sorts of discussions as going to a vegan get-together and asking about whether vinegar or tomato based barbecue is best.
(It's vinegar.)
I think cars and diamonds are both stupid things to waste money on. This is the MMM so baseline isn't 100% fine if you can pay your bills. That is every other consumer's rationale. Do what you want but don't pretend it's different just because it's something you really want.
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Sorry, late to this game, but I just declared FI and left full time work earlier this week. It took seven years to get there making good money and having a head start (and a better half that got to keep family health insurance in retirement). I cannot fathom being months or even years behind getting to where I am now because we went down rabbit holes like "pretty rocks".
A good friend once said you can have anything you want, you can't have everything you want. If you are looking at spending thousands on the engagement ring, I do hope you and the future missus are making big coin to offset and paper over such a splurge (if so, grats). And if not, I have to wonder about whether this site is right for the newly wed couple when the freaking warm-up ring is a four digit proposition. Sorry to be judgy, but in an MMM forum there are going to be lots of folks with values like mine. You need to figure out your monetary values as a couple and be comfortable with it, and good luck.
(My daughter is fairly frugal but got a shiny rock for her engagement/wedding last year. Now she and hubby are saving for a down payment for a house. They would be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars closer to having a house instead of a pretty rock if they had made a different decision about an engagement ring.)
I think you are kind of exaggerating a bit, depending on the individual.
My engagement ring was $3000. Back in the mid-1990s. (a princess cut! I like it! Don't care if it's not perfect!)
I've now been married nearly 24 years. That $3000 is literally a drop in the bucket over 24 years. What is not a drop in the bucket? A global pandemic.
It's a nothing-burger.
A $5000 ring if you can't make rent? A $10k ring when you are saving for a down-payment on a house? Eh maybe.
On the flip side, my ring was about $3000 five years ago, and despite us making well over 30K/mo, it still seems like a lot to have spent on a ring, especially since I never wear it.
I'm not about to judge anyone for what they spend on, but I do think engagement rings really are a fantastic opportunity for couples to really hammer out their collective financial, I guess "mission statement" as it were.
It's such a perfect example of key financial stress points that they will encounter along the way: how much to spend on wants vs needs, the value of a dollar today vs in the future, one sided spending, if this the first expensive jewelry purchase or the last, ethics of what you spend your money on, etc, etc.
It's just such a rich source of productive money talk. Whatever a couple settles on, I respect, as long as they've actually talked through the potentially challenging basis of the decision.
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...
(My daughter is fairly frugal but got a shiny rock for her engagement/wedding last year. Now she and hubby are saving for a down payment for a house. They would be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars closer to having a house instead of a pretty rock if they had made a different decision about an engagement ring.)
Meanwhile, husband and I each got a $150 rings with no stone that we love and are now closing on a house a year later. Feels great! I feel lucky to not care about shiny rocks.
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Jewelry stores are exactly the kind of thing (I imagine) that should stay closed longer than anything else. Perfect place to spread germs.
I guess I could take this opportunity to go the online route, but I'd rather not. I'll just have to wait until all the retails stores are open again. May actually not be that long (Texas).
Not to turn this into a Covid thread, but jewelry stores seem like the sort of thing that could open up fairly easily. You have a pretty good idea of what people have touched and there are only ever a few people in the store at a time. Jewelry stores also lend themselves fairly easily to an appointment-only model.
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...I cannot fathom being months or even years behind getting to where I am now because we went down rabbit holes like "pretty rocks"...
...If you are looking at spending thousands on the engagement ring, I do hope you and the future missus are making big coin to offset and paper over such a splurge (if so, grats). And if not, I have to wonder about whether this site is right for the newly wed couple when the freaking warm-up ring is a four digit proposition...
...They would be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollars closer to having a house instead of a pretty rock if they had made a different decision about an engagement ring.)
I agree with you that people should not go into debt for an engagement ring or any other discretionary purchase. And I don't see the point of anyone spending tremendous amounts of money on a ring.
That said...my ering, a moissanite with a gold setting, was about $2k (I may have mentioned this before). It is good quality, the band is thick and won't break, the stone came from a reputable source. I love it. It's exactly what I hoped for, and it brings me happiness. I wonder if your daughter feels the same way?
Also - the "warm-up" ring I presume you mean the wedding ring is the "real one"? Because wedding rings tend to cost a lot less than erings.
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My engagement ring was $3000. Back in the mid-1990s. (a princess cut! I like it! Don't care if it's not perfect!)
I've now been married nearly 24 years. That $3000 is literally a drop in the bucket over 24 years. What is not a drop in the bucket? A global pandemic.
It's a nothing-burger.
If it had gone into the S&P500, it would be worth close to $30k today, even after our recent market drop.
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My engagement ring was $3000. Back in the mid-1990s. (a princess cut! I like it! Don't care if it's not perfect!)
I've now been married nearly 24 years. That $3000 is literally a drop in the bucket over 24 years. What is not a drop in the bucket? A global pandemic.
It's a nothing-burger.
If it had gone into the S&P500, it would be worth close to $30k today, even after our recent market drop.
So, less 1% of our total net worth? Yeah, I'm ok with that.
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We keep talking about this periodically. With things opening up again, I can start going to places and looking myself.
Problem: it seems every few weeks she changes her mind about what she wants. Not little details, but big things like the cut itself. Any advice on how to deal with this? I want to get her something that she will love forever, but I'm not sure how when she is struggling to even settle on the cut of the thing.
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She needs to try on different cuts and see what looks good on her hand.
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She needs to try on different cuts and see what looks good on her hand.
Agreed. As for longevity, That is why I chose a solitaire. Ring settings become dated, solitaires less so. Even then, solitaire styles change.
I would advise any young woman getting an engagement ring today to go with a classic shape rather than the trend of the moment. To me the most classic shape is round but to many people that is just boring.
The other classic shapes are oval (now top of the trend) rectangular in an emerald cut ( always out there, never trendy) pear, and marquis. Marquis was super trendy decades ago, so much so that all women my age ( grandmas) have one and and it is dated although it will make a resurgence in popularity again as these things always do.Don’t even think about a heart shaped diamond those are UGH even if classic.
My personal opinion is that princess cuts are not classic and are in fact an outdated trend, same for asscher and radiant.
The trendy Ring of the past decade has been asscher or cushion cut in a halo setting. I think that’s incredibly boring because everyone has one.
If I were buying a ring today I would probably buy oval but I have always loved emerald cut as well.
Put all your money into quality of the center stone because the rest of it just dates the ring.Yellow gold is the classic choice but hasn’t been popular for a long time. I love yellow gold because it is zero maintenance, absolutely zero. You don’t ever visit the jeweler again with yellow gold, the other stuff needs maintenance if you want it to be shiny.
This little essay on engagement rings is, of course, entirely my own opinion!
Edited to add cushion cuts as being very popular from the last decade so I think they’re out of trend now.
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Copied from the interwebs, about Princess-cut:
"It saw its popularity at its peak in the 80s and 90s. The princess cut experienced a rise in popularity from the early 2000s to the mid 2000s. In the 2000s, the most popular engagement ring featured a princess cut diamond surrounded by round brilliant-cut diamonds."
I love my princess cut diamond ring. Purchased in 1995, so there's that, at it's peak. It's a simple ring with a baguette on each side. Pretty classic, actually. I should wear it more often.
It's basically this, but gold (not white gold) and smaller, because 1 ct was just too big.
https://www.bluenile.com/preset-engagement-ring-tapered-baguette_56682
I think I would worry less about what is "on trend" and more about what she likes on her hand. Because honestly, does anyone look back and think "gosh, that pear cut is SOOOO out of fashion?" I mean, maybe? Most likely the ring takes on more personal meaning the longer you have been engaged and married.
asscher cut in a halo setting
I had to look that up. You are right, with the (few, because I'm old) women I know who have gotten engaged in the last few years, I've seen a bunch of these.
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Problem: it seems every few weeks she changes her mind about what she wants. Not little details, but big things like the cut itself. Any advice on how to deal with this? I want to get her something that she will love forever, but I'm not sure how when she is struggling to even settle on the cut of the thing.
IMO you can't go wrong with something timeless like a round cut solitaire on a simple gold or platinum ring. Some things never go out of style.
That being said, the best thing to do would be at some point in time to solicit a final decision, and then thereafter cease discussing the ring situation. "After we finish talking about this today, I may go out and buy something, so now's the time to come to a decision."
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I think the classiest ring is an emerald cut of 1 carat in platinum. Perhaps it would have diamond accents of some kind in the setting, but it would not be in a halo.
I think of those rings as being for very classy women. I’m not a classy woman so it’s not my ring. But in another life that might be my ring!
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An ideal cut round brilliant solitaire is the timeless choice. You could get a simple band and upgrade the setting later.
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After 30+ years of marriage, and now being middle aged and noticing what a lot of women do, I would suggest to find something she loves now within the framework of what is classic/timeless and the budget. We all change our tastes over time (although hopefully not in partners!) and going classic now will likely prevent wanting to change out the ring in the future. The other option is to go antique if she's into that, as antique doesn't go out of style (antique -- not vintage or retro) for the person who loves it. I wear an antique cushion cut diamond in an antique halo mounting. It's nothing like current cushion diamonds or current halos. It's large, and VS2, but of lower color, which brought the price down. It was an anniversary gift.
But I don't wear an e-ring everyday, and I'd stopped well before the pandemic. It's not practical to wear it when working with bread dough, gardening, making beds, or cleaning house. Among friends my age and older, I've noticed many choose to wear a simple wedding band. My grandmother stopped wearing her engagement ring (passed down to my sister) a decade or two before she died, as did most of her friends. I also know nurses who don't often wear their e-rings, and mothers who don't wear them for fear of catching on a little one's delicate skin.
If I was buying a diamond engagement ring right now, I would choose a round diamond in a 6 prong solitaire mounting (but not set too high), either platinum or yellow gold (at least 18k). I would go as big as budget would allow, but only for an excellently cut, high clarity, colorless or near colorless diamond. I'd likely go no lower than VS2 or a high SI1 in clarity, and no lower than G in color. I'd look for a stone that falls just under a desired weight, such as something in the .95 - .99 range, or 1.45 - 1.49, or 1.95 - 1.99, etc. An emerald cut is also classic, but for an EC to be gorgeous you need higher quality and color -- probably no lower than F/VVS2. Emerald cuts don't hide color or inclusions well. And emerald cuts cost more than rounds.
I'm of the opinion that 1.25 ideal cut G/VS2 diamond in a classic 6 prong solitaire mounting is an engagement ring most women who want a diamond engagement ring would be thrilled with and could wear their entire lives. A 7-8mm stone is a size that looks great on most women's hands. I would be far more likely to pair it with a diamond eternity band than to turn to a halo for extra sparkle.
And I would search high and low and likely buy used if I could. Diamonds are like cars, losing value as soon as you buy them. And poor quality diamonds suffer even more. Don't buy without a GIA certificate (not the same as being appraised by a GIA certified appraiser) or an AGS certificate, but absolutely not EGL or any other grading lab, and for certain, not based on some mall jeweler's evaluation. Do not buy a diamond that isn't certified. Ask to see the certificate and an ASET. Maybe sure the diamond is laser inscribed with its certificate number.
My original engagement ring was a .24 round diamond set in a yellow gold solitaire. We paid too much because we were too young and inexperienced to even know we could negotiate with the jeweler, but we at least got lucky with the color and clarity -- it's a happy sparkly stone. And we didn't pay interest on it. I wore that ring for more than two decades, never begrudging its size because it signified the years we had together, and it never held us back from any financial goals. The big ring came when buying it wouldn't endanger any financial plans, and it wasn't even my idea. I love it, but I'm perfectly happy wearing a plain wedding band now. We're probably lucky we got engaged young and with no idea of cultural expectations about engagement rings -- had it been in our mid-to-late 20s, we probably would have gone into debt to get something bigger.
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Note that 14k is more durable than 18k, and also note that ideal cut will compensate for mid-range color.
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I can no longer wear my engagement ring day to day. It has been re-structured three times. We got married in 1997 and I wore the ring daily until kids arrived. Then I wore it sporadically. I lost a baguette boogie boarding or sea kayaking waves - it was a super fun day at the beach but the replacement baguette was $600 and another chunk to re-do all the claws. Then I had it restructured again in February 2019 so that I won't need to buy replacement stones and I could wear it again regularly. Then 11 months later, I was doing some autoCAD and looked down and the ring was missing the big emerald cut sapphire and an entire corner of the setting. Fortunately the sapphire was beside the wheel of my chair. I have probably whacked it one too many times and the whole things is a little brittle. Since my hands are getting a little arthritic, I don't need to wear it every day and now I keep it for special occasions. I wear my beautiful wedding band always.
The engagement ring I bought my partner is also a sapphire and it is only worn when we are getting all dolled up for a super fancy event. My best friends considered engagement rings patriarchal. But I wanted one, so I also bought one. At the time it seemed really important. Today it doesn't much seem so.
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My best friends considered engagement rings patriarchal. But I wanted one, so I also bought one. At the time it seemed really important. Today it doesn't much seem so.
This is spot on!!! When we got engaged, not getting an engagement ring was unthinkable (well, unless it was a "shotgun" wedding). Luckily were were broke and didn't have credit built up, so we had to buy within budget. It was a long time ago, and we were young -- culturally the ring was important, and it made it seem more real to everyone (I don't think my parents would have accepted an engagement without an engagement ring, unless I'd bee pregnant). But at the same time, we didn't know rules about expected salary to spend, or that the .24 diamond was "small". I mean, we knew it wasn't big, but it was for two young adults from the lower middle class, and being the first in my group of friends to get engaged, I didn't have anyone to compare with and/or feel inferior to.
But you are so right -- it doesn't seem so important anymore. I'm not insecure like I was back then, and I don't have anything to prove to anyone, and DH certainly doesn't have to prove his financial readiness to marry by spending money on a trinket. My original e-ring is unwearable unless I have the shank rebuilt, and my anniversary ring is lovely but unnecessary.
All that said, I stand by what I would recommend for someone who does want an engagement ring, if buying new. I worked jewelry when I was in college (unfortunately, after I got engaged, lol) and took it up as a hobby in the 2010s. If buying used, there are deals out there for unsentimental people lacking in superstition. Buy someone else's engagement ring from a failed marriage or an inherited piece they just don't want. When my brother was looking to replace my SIL's lost ring, I helped him find a half carat old European diamond set in an antique white gold mounting, for $200.
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My best friends considered engagement rings patriarchal. But I wanted one, so I also bought one. At the time it seemed really important. Today it doesn't much seem so.
This is spot on!!! When we got engaged, not getting an engagement ring was unthinkable (well, unless it was a "shotgun" wedding). Luckily were were broke and didn't have credit built up, so we had to buy within budget. It was a long time ago, and we were young -- culturally the ring was important, and it made it seem more real to everyone (I don't think my parents would have accepted an engagement without an engagement ring, unless I'd bee pregnant). But at the same time, we didn't know rules about expected salary to spend, or that the .24 diamond was "small". I mean, we knew it wasn't big, but it was for two young adults from the lower middle class, and being the first in my group of friends to get engaged, I didn't have anyone to compare with and/or feel inferior to.
But you are so right -- it doesn't seem so important anymore. I'm not insecure like I was back then, and I don't have anything to prove to anyone, and DH certainly doesn't have to prove his financial readiness to marry by spending money on a trinket. My original e-ring is unwearable unless I have the shank rebuilt, and my anniversary ring is lovely but unnecessary.
All that said, I stand by what I would recommend for someone who does want an engagement ring, if buying new. I worked jewelry when I was in college (unfortunately, after I got engaged, lol) and took it up as a hobby in the 2010s. If buying used, there are deals out there for unsentimental people lacking in superstition. Buy someone else's engagement ring from a failed marriage or an inherited piece they just don't want. When my brother was looking to replace my SIL's lost ring, I helped him find a half carat old European diamond set in an antique white gold mounting, for $200.
Where would one find a ring like that? I don't care about e-rings, been married a while, but still like a pretty used ring maybe.
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Where would one find a ring like that? I don't care about e-rings, been married a while, but still like a pretty used ring maybe.
Typically eBay. Whatever type of stone you're interested in, it helps to research the cut and to know about clarity and color. Looking at a lot of listings helps, because you learn when photos have been adjusted to make the stones look better. Then you don't necessarily look for the type of cut, and search instead for words like estate and old. You look for private sellers, not resellers. The photos will typically be of lower quality. Also, look for auctions, not BIN, and not auctions with large reserves. You can use apps to snipe, although I've never done an automatic snipe. It also helps to include your preferred metal in the search. Make sure to choose the pre-owned box in your search.
I was into this several years ago (7-8?), when I was playing with a small inheritance from my grandmother and my DH wanted me to spend it on myself. I educated myself on antique diamonds, and decided I like small tabled bubbly old European cuts over transitional diamonds or diamonds with bigger tables. Several times I was able to sell items for more than I paid, once I decided I didn't want them anymore and wanted something else. Overall I came out even or perhaps slightly ahead, since I only ever took one big hit when selling.
It did take a lot of time to find deals, and I don't do it anymore, mostly because I like the trinkets I have and don't want to sell anything so I can buy something else. I had a couple of online friends who made it into a business, but I actually hate selling things, so that wasn't something I wanted to do. In the current economy, I imagine even Etsy and Loupetroop may have some good deals.
Patience is your friend, as well. Several years ago I decided I wanted an antique or vintage British 22k gold wedding band, at least 3mm wide and with some heft to it. Most of what I found was $500 and up for what I was specifically looking for. I waited and watched, and eventually got one on auction for under $150. It's over 100 years old, as well. I wear it as my wedding band, since my original band is narrow (1.5mm) and doesn't even fit me anymore. I'm old enough now to not worry about used jewelry (I actually prefer it) and if I were in the market for wedding bands I would ignore all hogwash about used bands and buy our bands this way.
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K, so I've had, like, a half dozen diamond rings.
Long story, but I've had everything from the done to death 1+ carat round solitaire in a white gold band, to extremely trendy cuts and settings, to opting for a non-diamond center stone. From vintage, to bought from a display in a box store, to custom designed, I've done it all.
One person's classic is another person's boring, and one person's unique is another person's trashy. There's no right or wrong, there's just what someone wants.
Besides, give something enough time and a dying trend becomes vintage, so it really doesn't matter.
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My engagement ring was $3000. Back in the mid-1990s. (a princess cut! I like it! Don't care if it's not perfect!)
I've now been married nearly 24 years. That $3000 is literally a drop in the bucket over 24 years. What is not a drop in the bucket? A global pandemic.
It's a nothing-burger.
If it had gone into the S&P500, it would be worth close to $30k today, even after our recent market drop.
So, less 1% of our total net worth? Yeah, I'm ok with that.
This cracks me up. A one time $3k purchase affecting FIRE? LOL. Did you scrutinize your home purchase this much? I.e. we need to buy the $150k house, if we buy a $153k house our FIRE plans will be sunk! Is a $3k or $5k or $10k ring important to me? No. Might it be to my SO? Maybe. Even if it is, I'm not going to worry about it as long as we are on the same page with 95% of our other values. To the posters implying that buying an engagement ring disqualifies you from being mustachian, we are talking about less than 1 month's worth of savings for most people on this forum.
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I bought my fiance a ring from Brilliant Earth. They were fantastic.
Some advice - Don't buy a ring that tapers, it was a disaster finding a wedding band that 'fit' without showing a gap between engagement/marriage rings. We eventually had to send off the engagement ring, have it re-set to fit next to the wedding band.
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After a loooong time searching, I bought a nice .5 ct diamond solitaire with a gold band for about $1,300, and it was a big hit. I found shopping vintage and less popular cuts (Old European cut) was the best way to get a good price and at the same time, get something unique. Definitely not ideal for all, especially if your SO expects something "new". However, my SO loves old stuff, so being vintage was a big plus.
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After a loooong time searching, I bought a nice .5 ct diamond solitaire with a gold band for about $1,300, and it was a big hit. I found shopping vintage and less popular cuts (Old European cut) was the best way to get a good price and at the same time, get something unique. Definitely not ideal for all, especially if your SO expects something "new". However, my SO loves old stuff, so being vintage was a big plus.
Sounds great. I hope she said yes lol.
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After a loooong time searching, I bought a nice .5 ct diamond solitaire with a gold band for about $1,300, and it was a big hit. I found shopping vintage and less popular cuts (Old European cut) was the best way to get a good price and at the same time, get something unique. Definitely not ideal for all, especially if your SO expects something "new". However, my SO loves old stuff, so being vintage was a big plus.
Sounds great. I hope she said yes lol.
She did! Best money I ever spent ;)
Here are some pics if anyone is interested: https://www.wharfedaleantiques.com/index.php?_route_=Edwardian0.55ctDiamondSolitaireEngagementRingin18ctYellowGoldandPlatinumRG763
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My fiance bought me a 700$ CAD, .27 carat solitaire set in white gold. It's simple, beautiful, and has so far withstood all my cycling, rock climbing, painting, etc.
We just bought our wedding rings... 65$ for his (cobalt ring that looks identical to white gold).
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After a loooong time searching, I bought a nice .5 ct diamond solitaire with a gold band for about $1,300, and it was a big hit. I found shopping vintage and less popular cuts (Old European cut) was the best way to get a good price and at the same time, get something unique. Definitely not ideal for all, especially if your SO expects something "new". However, my SO loves old stuff, so being vintage was a big plus.
I love the small tabled OECs! The ring is a classic. Congratulations!
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After a loooong time searching, I bought a nice .5 ct diamond solitaire with a gold band for about $1,300, and it was a big hit. I found shopping vintage and less popular cuts (Old European cut) was the best way to get a good price and at the same time, get something unique. Definitely not ideal for all, especially if your SO expects something "new". However, my SO loves old stuff, so being vintage was a big plus.
Sounds great. I hope she said yes lol.
She did! Best money I ever spent ;)
Here are some pics if anyone is interested: https://www.wharfedaleantiques.com/index.php?_route_=Edwardian0.55ctDiamondSolitaireEngagementRingin18ctYellowGoldandPlatinumRG763
Very nice, and that vintage ring box sets it off well.
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My only advice look at the stones yourself in person and have them next to each other. I bought my now wife a 2 carat colorless that didn’t have as good of clarity rating (sorry I forget the exact rating) as the others that I was deciding against. My friend and I kept doing a sort of blind taste test mixing them up and then picking the one that looked the best in person. I was surprised that the best looking was not necessarily the most expensive. I then got her a nice platinum setting with matching engagement band from Tacori. She absolutely loves it and everywhere she goes she gets compliments. I’m sure I overpaid but she’s happy and it wasn’t a financial burden and seemed about the right amount to spend. Buy once cry once lol!
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Ew, diamonds. One of the scummiest, evilest industries and scams in the world. I can't see how any Mustachian would buy into it.
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My DW used hand-me-down rings from her grandmother. Cost $0.
now my grandchildren have that opportunity