Author Topic: Effective ways to help family financially long term?  (Read 6545 times)

hadabeardonce

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 330
  • It's never too early to learn the value of money.
Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« on: May 24, 2017, 05:29:05 PM »
My wife and I's accounts are growing. We are both working full time, only have mortgage debt, have reduced our expenses and are maxing out our retirement accounts. Things are good for us, but it's hard to watch the rest of the family struggle.

We're helping our oldest niece go to community college. She's staying on our couch during the week, so we're trying to set a good example. I had her set up a Mint account, explained how my wife and I manage our money and I've been pretty transparent with financial stuff. I'm hoping the education she's receiving will give her the opportunity to find a career that's rewarding. Hopefully some of what I'm showing her will influence her spending/saving habits. *fingers crossed for a long term positive affect her life trajectory*

The additional expenses for food and whatever don't amount to much, so helping out our niece is no trouble. The rest of our family is a different story...

I helped my wife out a lot with how to handle money early in our relationship. It's hard to admit that she's more frugal than I am now, but getting her from where she was to where she is now took a lot of time and support. How do you do that for other people in your family? I'm not going to just give or loan a chunk of my own stash if people are operating with a structural deficit.

Has anyone managed to make a lightbulb appear above a relative's head with the idea that they need to change their financial ways? How did you do it? What did you show them? Is there a magic phrase?

Stoic on FIRE

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • This too shall pass.
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 06:44:20 PM »
Unfortunately as the saying goes you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I've only managed to convince one family member, my wife. Plus, my wife was already good with money, but just needed the extra oomph for FI savings and she got that from looking at a graph of compounding returns.

The best you can do is set an example yourself. If someone asks for advice and guidance lend it freely. If a family member comes to you for money you can set some conditions prior to the loan, for example, set up a Mint account/budget to show you will not be throwing money into a pit. The same thing a bank would do if you came asking for a loan.

There are also many people who have been burned and spurned by family, friends, and coworkers due to the perception of having "more" and not being charitable. It's why a significant portion of the forum-goers here keep their FIRE plans within a small circle of confidence.

At the end of the day you can only control your own opinions and the actions you attempt from those opinions. You have a circle of concern and a much smaller circle of control. Your family's finances are outside your circle of control.

bb11

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 07:53:24 PM »
Commenting to follow. I struggle with this, as by and large my family is awful with money. I've been able to help my girlfriend (though she was already pretty good) and one of my sisters. To a lesser degree I've helped some co-workers get a lot better as well. But a lot of people don't change, or don't even want to hear it. I try to stay out of it unless they ask. I agree that you shouldn't just give away money, although I gave my mom a big loan (~$4-5k) for her wedding that she is slowly paying back.

I went to community college (as did my successful sister!) and have come out doing really well, so PM me if you have any questions about that!

ptgearguy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 09:30:21 PM »
I have the same problem with my family. My brother has been fully converted but we have always been really close so can talk very easily. The rest of my family is stuck in the whole poor person mindset that more money is the only answer. I have tried but I have more or less given up on it

lizzzi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2150
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2017, 05:52:33 AM »
I fall into the "burned and spurned" group, to quote somebody upthread. I helped family members way too much and way too soon. I, too, felt like I had so much and they had so little...that I should spread it around a little. What a waste of generosity and money. Keep you own hard-earned money in your own pocket. There is all kinds of information out there about personal finance, and your relatives, I'm sure, can access it if they want to. Let them figure it out. Just do you.

Laura33

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2891
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2017, 06:17:03 AM »
Has anyone managed to make a lightbulb appear above a relative's head with the idea that they need to change their financial ways? How did you do it? What did you show them? Is there a magic phrase?

No.  Can't be done, until they decide to do it themselves.  I'm sorry.  It is frustrating to watch people you love be stupid and self-destructive, but it is their life, and they get to do that if they choose.

What you are doing with your niece is the best possible thing:  do not overextend yourself/offer more than you can afford to lose; provide a hand up and information; and be a living, breathing, daily example of how it is done.  The problem is that there is only one you, and you can't devote that kind of effort to everyone around you -- and most of them would resent you if you tried. 

hadabeardonce

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 330
  • It's never too early to learn the value of money.
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2017, 03:47:04 PM »
I work for a community college and regularly mention the benefits associated with the job. I convinced my mom to apply for a position on campus, which she obtained. The health benefits were invaluable to her after she was diagnosed with cancer. Treatments would have depleted my parent's estate if she didn't have the same quality health coverage. She said it was the best workplace she had ever been in. Her passing is part of the reason I started to look into FIRE info.

Hopefully I can get another family member in the door because it seems like a great place to achieve FIRE. I can contribute $36K/yr on my own by maxing out 403b and 457 accounts, plus I'm contributing to a pension plan. I'll be rolling in dough if I hang around until I'm 55. By then I'd have 30 years of service and my retirement stash would have been accumulating for 20 years. Another co-worker actually got me started investing in the first place, albeit with a financial advisor who was charging me a bunch in fees.

Housing nieces and nephews while they are in college is a service we'll continue to offer(we're on #1 of 11) to help out family. Kids are impressionable, curious and willing to learn. Hopefully the knowledge I share with them between Snapchat and YouTube finds its way to a permanent place in their brains. I can already tell they are going to inherit their parents problems though. Niece #1 just turned 18 and is sending $300-350/mo. to her mom to help pay to rent a 1b/1b apartment and pay for car insurance. It's an improvement over the previous arrangement where her mom was having my niece's paycheck deposited into mom's bank account, but it's going to weigh the kid down.

---

Since my earnings and the earnings of my co-workers appear on transparentcalifornia.com , I've always been pretty open about how much I make - it's public record.

Lately I've been toying with the idea of combining households into something like a duplex. Family could have their own space, but live nearby and split dinner making duties or something...

Rocketman

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 118
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017, 04:38:24 PM »
I am focusing my efforts on my nieces and nephews.  My wife and I offer a $500 a year scholarship to them.  To qualify they have to read a financial book of some kind and then discuss it with us.. One per scholarship, we usually start out with Dave Ramsey - Total Money Makeover. Then I let them pick it from there.  I have to "approve" each book - just to make sure I have read it - or so I know what book to put on hold at the library.

I think it has helped them. A few it really helped! ( No debt college!!!)yea!!! Just because they realized there was another way.

My youngest brother I keep having hope he will figure finances out...

bb11

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 03:47:57 PM »
I am focusing my efforts on my nieces and nephews.  My wife and I offer a $500 a year scholarship to them.  To qualify they have to read a financial book of some kind and then discuss it with us.. One per scholarship, we usually start out with Dave Ramsey - Total Money Makeover. Then I let them pick it from there.  I have to "approve" each book - just to make sure I have read it - or so I know what book to put on hold at the library.

I think it has helped them. A few it really helped! ( No debt college!!!)yea!!! Just because they realized there was another way.

My youngest brother I keep having hope he will figure finances out...

Wow. This is a really cool idea for helping younger people. Thanks for sharing!

AriesFire

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 04:15:14 PM »
I am focusing my efforts on my nieces and nephews.  My wife and I offer a $500 a year scholarship to them.  To qualify they have to read a financial book of some kind and then discuss it with us.. One per scholarship, we usually start out with Dave Ramsey - Total Money Makeover. Then I let them pick it from there.  I have to "approve" each book - just to make sure I have read it - or so I know what book to put on hold at the library.

I think it has helped them. A few it really helped! ( No debt college!!!)yea!!! Just because they realized there was another way.

My youngest brother I keep having hope he will figure finances out...

This is great! One year I gave both my brother and sister "Your Money or Your Life" as part of their Christmas present and they both seemed really annoyed. My sister commented that it was a rude gift. She still has it on her bookshelf, but it appears to have never even been opened.

bb11

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2017, 02:11:03 PM »
I am focusing my efforts on my nieces and nephews.  My wife and I offer a $500 a year scholarship to them.  To qualify they have to read a financial book of some kind and then discuss it with us.. One per scholarship, we usually start out with Dave Ramsey - Total Money Makeover. Then I let them pick it from there.  I have to "approve" each book - just to make sure I have read it - or so I know what book to put on hold at the library.

I think it has helped them. A few it really helped! ( No debt college!!!)yea!!! Just because they realized there was another way.

My youngest brother I keep having hope he will figure finances out...

This is great! One year I gave both my brother and sister "Your Money or Your Life" as part of their Christmas present and they both seemed really annoyed. My sister commented that it was a rude gift. She still has it on her bookshelf, but it appears to have never even been opened.

Haha. I can see how it comes across as rude/judgmental, but hey, it's a heck of a lot more valuable than your average gift if applied properly!

tavore

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 04:04:13 PM »
My problem isn't that I need them to have better habits. DW and I are the financially stable ones - the rest are in challenging situations, and not something I would blame them for or lecture them about. Some already work multiple jobs to keep a roof over their heads. Unfortunately they're all one missed paycheck away from trouble.

DW and I are planning our finances to accommodate being the emergency fund for our immediate extended family. I can't let myself worry about not adding more to the stache beyond the 401k/IRAs. I just wish I had the option to claim all the financial help on my taxes, without listing them as dependants. I handle it by mentally assigning my tax dollars to education, medicare and medicaid - that gives me some peace of mind, and I'm grateful for the safety net that helps them stay mostly functional, and less dependant on us.

hadabeardonce

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 330
  • It's never too early to learn the value of money.
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2017, 06:17:59 PM »
I am focusing my efforts on my nieces and nephews.  My wife and I offer a $500 a year scholarship to them.  To qualify they have to read a financial book of some kind and then discuss it with us.. One per scholarship, we usually start out with Dave Ramsey - Total Money Makeover. Then I let them pick it from there.  I have to "approve" each book - just to make sure I have read it - or so I know what book to put on hold at the library.

I think it has helped them. A few it really helped! ( No debt college!!!)yea!!! Just because they realized there was another way.

My youngest brother I keep having hope he will figure finances out...
The scholarship idea is a good one. I need to start my own financial library. Right now I have a very basic understanding of the benefits of index investing and contributing to tax deferred retirement accounts. Maybe that's all a motivated person(with the means[obtained via frugality]) really needs to get started, but it would be nice to have the knowledge to really articulate how it works along with the pitfalls of not contributing anything toward retirement.

I was thinking about showing my oldest niece some of the transparent ways my wife and I save. Paycheck deductions aren't things that outsiders see, unlike spending. I get worried that she'll emulate our spending, but not our savings rate.

Imma

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2835
  • Location: Europe
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2017, 01:40:46 AM »
I think the scholarship idea is brilliant. I like how you want to contribute financially to the younger generation in your family, but want to do more than throw money at them. I think reading one book per year is a reasonable thing to ask in exchange for that money.

We don't help out blood relatives right now, but we have a close friend who is on a very low income for all sorts of reasons, but through no fault of her own. She's managing the little money she has very well and staying out of debt, and to make a little money she cleans our home. I don't think we necessarily need a cleaner, but we employ her anyway. It's always a joy to come home to a clean home (she's doing a good job) and I'm happy to be able to give her money. I always make sure there's food in the house that she likes too.

Finances_With_Purpose

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 821
    • Finances With Purpose: deploying resources wisely to live vigorously
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2017, 01:56:13 AM »
My wife and I's accounts are growing. We are both working full time, only have mortgage debt, have reduced our expenses and are maxing out our retirement accounts. Things are good for us, but it's hard to watch the rest of the family struggle.

We're helping our oldest niece go to community college. She's staying on our couch during the week, so we're trying to set a good example. I had her set up a Mint account, explained how my wife and I manage our money and I've been pretty transparent with financial stuff. I'm hoping the education she's receiving will give her the opportunity to find a career that's rewarding. Hopefully some of what I'm showing her will influence her spending/saving habits. *fingers crossed for a long term positive affect her life trajectory*

The additional expenses for food and whatever don't amount to much, so helping out our niece is no trouble. The rest of our family is a different story...

I helped my wife out a lot with how to handle money early in our relationship. It's hard to admit that she's more frugal than I am now, but getting her from where she was to where she is now took a lot of time and support. How do you do that for other people in your family? I'm not going to just give or loan a chunk of my own stash if people are operating with a structural deficit.

Has anyone managed to make a lightbulb appear above a relative's head with the idea that they need to change their financial ways? How did you do it? What did you show them? Is there a magic phrase?

Love it!  I'm doing this, too.  I also love the scholarship idea, Rocketman - we'll use that now.  (I have a funny story about that type of idea from college days...it's incredibly effective.) 

So, I give a lot of time and thought to these types of questions because it's what I most enjoy doing in life, and also, I happen to have experience with it - including some successes.  (I cover a lot of the ideas that relate here in a post about giving: http://financeswithpurpose.com/gave-away-2500-today-challenge-fellow-bloggers/

I was very blessed recently when a close relative asked for help figuring out finances and how we do things, since my wife talked about how we do things, apparently, and recommended that the relative speak to me about it.  Best two hours I've spent so far this year, bar none.

Also, I watched my parents help a family friend who was literally homeless and help her become fully independent within a year.  She's still rocking it, in fact, as of a month ago.  That story is here: http://mustardseedmoney.com/index.php/2017/08/18/homeless-to-hopeful/

Things I've learned:
1.  You can't do something for someone that they can do for themselves.  It never works.  Instead, you create dependencies, resentments, and on and on (for both them AND you, actually).  As Laura33 said as well, I see.  (She and I seem to share a lot of the same thoughts/insights on this forum...)  I've seen it referred to elsewhere as the paternalism principle.  In the end, doing that is usually unhelpful for both of you.
2.  We don't share personal finance details with family.  I would with some, but you can't later unshare those things, and it's too easy/tempting for folks to (1) compare (jealousy, greed, envy), (2) share with other family (stoking the same), and (3) create a market for handouts (and/or anger when they aren't given out).  We find it's better not to share our actual details/info, however, I do share life principles and financial wisdom with anyone who wants.  I'll sit down and help create budgets, create life goals, and make a financial plan.  Nobody needs to see my own finances to do that, and I can always share stories about our finances as it's helpful.  To each his own - no normative point here - but I am adding this as a caution for you to consider. 
3.  The goal is to create a love for managing things well, and that's hard to do.  Some will jump right in, where others won't.  The trick is getting young folks to LOVE the STANDARD of good financial stewardship. 
4.  Finances are like a lightning rod for other life issues.  Finances depend upon having your emotions, addictions, resentments, hurts, and fears dealt with.  Spiritual counsel is often more helpful than financial counsel.  Or absolutely necessary to move ahead with finances.  You're probably already doing such things, but I mention it because I've more than once invested in someone only to watch them soon get derailed by larger emotional/other issues. 
5.  Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.  Boundaries are absolutely key, especially if you're serving as a lender to family (as tavore mentioned) or engaging in financial interactions/transactions with them.  If you're renting to family, you probably already considered it.  Just be prepared for the niece/nephew who pushes boundaries/has issues.  (We've had family live with us before, too, though it mostly went well.)  Absolutely love this book on it for ANYONE dealing w/ family-related financial issues: http://amzn.to/2geDbui

Finally, I'll add that this book (http://amzn.to/2vxxp8W) is invaluable for figuring out how to best help others, whether it's with financial or other issues.  I've spent most of my life in public service and stand by the principles there, which apply just as much to family as to third parties.  I wish you well in this endeavor!!!

AnnaGrowsAMustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1941
  • Location: Noo Zilind
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2017, 04:15:43 AM »
It simply isn't possible to help other people. You can only ever help people help themselves. Having said that, showing them a different way by providing an example is always an option. The seed may be sown!

LessIsLess

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2017, 07:18:46 AM »
It simply isn't possible to help other people. You can only ever help people help themselves. Having said that, showing them a different way by providing an example is always an option. The seed may be sown!

Low cost living has its benefits for sure, but think about how depressing that is.  Who in their right mind would aspire to being a cheap bastard?  Being a cheap bastard is a means to an end.  Being rich is what most people aspire to.  So if someone is to set an effective example, set an example of wealthy living. 

Start by driving a nice car.  All of a sudden, your opinion will mean much more than if you're  driving a 15 year old car.  Take an amazing vacation a few times a year.  Post pictures on your favorite platform.  Friends and family will notice, and will try to learn from you.  Then, at that point, you can slip in your frugality message, in between talk of your good life.

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4420
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2017, 07:27:18 AM »
If you figure out a way let me know. It is really hard to undo a lifetime of bad habits and a certain mindset. I guess the only thing is to be a good example to the younger members of the family, and the other members be a cautionary tale.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1941
  • Location: Noo Zilind
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2017, 04:00:06 PM »
It simply isn't possible to help other people. You can only ever help people help themselves. Having said that, showing them a different way by providing an example is always an option. The seed may be sown!

Low cost living has its benefits for sure, but think about how depressing that is.  Who in their right mind would aspire to being a cheap bastard?  Being a cheap bastard is a means to an end.  Being rich is what most people aspire to.  So if someone is to set an effective example, set an example of wealthy living. 

Start by driving a nice car.  All of a sudden, your opinion will mean much more than if you're  driving a 15 year old car.  Take an amazing vacation a few times a year.  Post pictures on your favorite platform.  Friends and family will notice, and will try to learn from you.  Then, at that point, you can slip in your frugality message, in between talk of your good life.

That's not my idea of wealthy living. That's THEIR idea of wealthy living. I'm not buying into their idea of wealthy living at the expense of my idea of wealthy living. I used to want to share the message more than I do now. I sometimes still open my big fat mouth, but in general I've learned that no one cares. They have to make their own choices and live with the consequences, just the same as I do.

ChrisLansing

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 348
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2017, 10:01:19 AM »
"Has anyone managed to make a lightbulb appear above a relative's head with the idea that they need to change their financial ways? How did you do it? What did you show them? Is there a magic phrase?"

I've tried and failed.   I tried to get my sister to realize how much she's spending on starbucks daily, and how much that would add up to over the long run.   Her response was that poor people deserve some pleasure too.   It's her little luxury that she won't do w/o.   Meanwhile she and her husband live in a trailer with his parents.  She doesn't work (and imo doesn't try very hard to find work) he works and has a low-moderate income (I don't know the exact wage but I'd venture about $11 and hour)   They eat fast food daily and drink a lot.   I've suggested home cooking is cheaper and more nutritious, but it hasn't made any impression.   I'm not sure my sister has enough years of work to qualify of SSI.   I've suggested she go on line to check.   Don't know if she has done so or not.   Their attitude is that they're going to be poor no matter what so they may as well have their little indulgences.   In a way they are right, they probably will be just above the poverty line until retirement.  Now in their mid 50s they have little chance of significant change, except that my sister could find work if she really tried (I think)  It would make a huge difference in their lives if they had a second income.   I've mentioned this to her a couple times with no real response.   I don't know how to motivate them.    I'd pay for them to go to FPU if I thought they'd do it.     

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17664
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2017, 10:47:56 AM »
Help by being a good example, and being there if they need ideas or explanations.  That's really all you can do.

Imma

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2835
  • Location: Europe
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2017, 12:34:15 PM »
It's hard to motivate people to change when they're at an age and in circumstances where the change won't be as effictive any more as it was 30 years earlier.

I see it with my FIL. He's morbidly obese and suffers from various illnesses linked to that: his mobility is limited, he has diabetes, bad heart and lungs. He struggles to make any lifestyle changes, even the relatively easy ones. He wants to lose weight and improve his quality of life, but he's mid-60s and aware that whatever he does, he can't undo the damage that he did. He's unlikely to live another 5 or 10 years, regardless of what changes he will make now. He finds it hard to stay off the fast food because that's one of the things he enjoys most and giving it up just isn't really worth it to him. I still wish he'd find the motivation somewhere though. Every pound he doesn't have to carry around anymore will make his remaining life slightly easier. 

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15106
  • Age: 63
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2017, 05:28:00 AM »
It simply isn't possible to help other people. You can only ever help people help themselves. Having said that, showing them a different way by providing an example is always an option. The seed may be sown!

Low cost living has its benefits for sure, but think about how depressing that is.  Who in their right mind would aspire to being a cheap bastard?  Being a cheap bastard is a means to an end.  Being rich is what most people aspire to.  So if someone is to set an effective example, set an example of wealthy living. 

Start by driving a nice car.  All of a sudden, your opinion will mean much more than if you're  driving a 15 year old car.  Take an amazing vacation a few times a year.  Post pictures on your favorite platform.  Friends and family will notice, and will try to learn from you.  Then, at that point, you can slip in your frugality message, in between talk of your good life.

That's not my idea of wealthy living. That's THEIR idea of wealthy living. I'm not buying into their idea of wealthy living at the expense of my idea of wealthy living. I used to want to share the message more than I do now. I sometimes still open my big fat mouth, but in general I've learned that no one cares. They have to make their own choices and live with the consequences, just the same as I do.
Anna, I'm pretty sure LiL was joking. If not, the facepunch patrol is on their way...

AnnaGrowsAMustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1941
  • Location: Noo Zilind
Re: Effective ways to help family financially long term?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2017, 04:39:22 PM »
It simply isn't possible to help other people. You can only ever help people help themselves. Having said that, showing them a different way by providing an example is always an option. The seed may be sown!

Low cost living has its benefits for sure, but think about how depressing that is.  Who in their right mind would aspire to being a cheap bastard?  Being a cheap bastard is a means to an end.  Being rich is what most people aspire to.  So if someone is to set an effective example, set an example of wealthy living. 

Start by driving a nice car.  All of a sudden, your opinion will mean much more than if you're  driving a 15 year old car.  Take an amazing vacation a few times a year.  Post pictures on your favorite platform.  Friends and family will notice, and will try to learn from you.  Then, at that point, you can slip in your frugality message, in between talk of your good life.

That's not my idea of wealthy living. That's THEIR idea of wealthy living. I'm not buying into their idea of wealthy living at the expense of my idea of wealthy living. I used to want to share the message more than I do now. I sometimes still open my big fat mouth, but in general I've learned that no one cares. They have to make their own choices and live with the consequences, just the same as I do.
Anna, I'm pretty sure LiL was joking. If not, the facepunch patrol is on their way...

D'oh! Maybe I need a little facepunch also!