eBay Fraud

[Argyle]

I think Daleth's idea about the postage is brilliant.  If you have a record of how much the headphones cost to send to compare it with, even better.

It is disappointing to hear so many stories of scams, even though I know they're out there.  Just to counter them, I once bought an expensive piece of furniture which had a very low figure for delivery.  Once I had bought it, the sender said she was an old lady and not familiar with computers, so the site had put an automatic figure on and she hadn't known how to correct it.  She said, "I can't possibly send it for that price.  Do you still want the piece?"  I thought about it and said Yes.  She proposed that her sister, who was on a 2000-mile road trip, should take a detour and deliver the piece to me basically for the price of gas.  I agreed to this madcap plan.  The sister did indeed drive 1000 miles and bring the furniture to me in her car.  The sister was 85 years old and delightful.  The sender was also in her 80s and delightful.  The furniture is wonderful.  It could have been a rip-off but it wasn't and I got to meet some great ladies.

[Daleth]

What a delightful story, Argyle!

[Hugh H]

Quick question - Would having the "No Returns Accepted" on the listing take care of all these return scams?

I've only sold two things on Ebay, but was looking at ramping up my selling and this thread is scary.

Bumping up this question to make sure it doesn't get buried...

[happyfeet]

No return policy does not exempt this situation from happening.  Ebay favors the buyer.  There is very little seller protection. 

I hate Ebay.  I wish they had some real competition.

[Thegoblinchief]

Quick question - Would having the "No Returns Accepted" on the listing take care of all these return scams?

I've only sold two things on Ebay, but was looking at ramping up my selling and this thread is scary.

No. Because they could still claim the item arrived damaged, or that YOU shipped them a dummy item.

[Thegoblinchief]

Not sure about UPS/FedEx, but don't rely on USPS' "insurance". They delivered something to the wrong COAST of the country and still denied my claim.

[MissPeach]

Yeah, eBay sides so heavily with the buyer in any dispute that sellers basically have no recourse against scammy buyers like yours. I don't understand it, it's like the management at eBay woke up one day and said, "Hey guys, you know what we should do? Take a huge wet watery piss all over everything that made our marketplace so popular. Then we'll make millions, right?"

I realize it seems unfair, but their whole business model doesn't exist without a bunch of buyers.  Who is going to put something up for sale knowing they'd only get one or two bids?  Therefore, it's in their best interest to skew towards the buyer, as without them, they fold.  However, it's easy to make the case that the pendulum has swung too far.

The point is they used to stay pretty neutral. Now basically anything the buyer says they do. I think this was best IMO because they need both. Their money comes from the sellers fees listing items. They also need buyers to buy the items.

I've noticed the traffic seems to have died down a lot. There are a lot of high priced listing there now from resellers and thing stay up for a long time for sale.

I've bought and sold on EBay for probably 10 or 12 years. I mostly now just sell items I don't want to deal with on CL or consign or donate.

[k-vette]

I've sold thousands of items on ebay.  Only had one issue.  Buyer was a pain from the get go.  Started asking for discounts, etc.  He already agreed to buy so I said no.   He then claimed that he never got the item and ebay refunded his money.

There is an appeal process.  I emailed proof that it had arrived and they reversed the transaction.  Still hold my 100 percent rating.

In short, don't sell to people with low ratings.  Overall I have had an an extremely small number of issues.  Avoid accepting returns as much as possible.  That's how scams typically start.

[Cpa Cat]

If you put "No returns" in your ad on Ebay, it just means that Ebay will refund money without requiring the item to be returned to you.

If you put "No refunds" in your ad, Ebay will just ignore it.

If you put something like "seller not responsible for postal damage," I actually think it's grounds to have the listing removed. My recollection is that Ebay automatically detects that wording and warns you to remove it before posting.

On Ebay, you're actually best off saying that you will always refund if items are returned, and if the item tolerates it (it's expensive enough - not a used book or something), charge more for shipping and list that you will only ship UPS/FedEx with insurance.

Whatever you do even if you're selling a 99c book via media mail, put delivery confirmation on it at the post office. You'll be amazed at how many things mysteriously get "lost in the mail" without tracking information. Somehow, I had never, ever had USPS lose something in the mail, but when I started selling on Ebay/Amazon, it was if I was sending packages to the Bermuda Triangle. Delivery confirmation magically eliminates this issue.

[kc2006]

Ebay/paypal will always return an item and the funds to the buyer no matter how clear you make "no returns accepted".  As others have said they are 100% on the buyers side,  I had sold a nitrous system for a car a few years ago to someone in the military, it was a big dollar item and sold for $800, because it went to his military mail box it took like 45 days to get there, the guy filed a claim after 14 days and got a full refund and I was stuck with nothing, I had tracking on the item and ebay didn't even care.  When it finally showed it was past the dates of ebay protecting me so they still didn't want to do anything and the guy ignored my emails.  I found the phone number for the base commander in Germany where the guy was stationed and called him, I ended up getting my money finally and the base commander assured me the guy would get punished for not wanting to pay his debt.

Did the package have a weight on it?  Usually when you ship stuff they print the weight of the package on his shipping label, if the guy didn't put anything in the box you should be able to tell ebay/paypal you have the shipping label and the whole package weighs less than the headphones alone (go on beats website and print the specs).  Worth a shot,unless he was smart enough to weight the box down with junk.

[Eurotexan]

Unfortunately I paid for his return shipping to me and set up the printing label with the weight of the headphones. All he really had to do was drop it off at the post office as the postage was paid. I admit part of the problem was I am a trusting person but I am definitely not going to let this thief change who I am. I was ignorant in thinking that because I was going through eBay, I would be protected. Lesson learnt..

[zinethstache]

I did a little snooping on your transaction and see that you were a 0 rated seller. I can definitely say that a 0 rated seller trying to sell any electronics is going to be victim to a scammer. that buyer's rating is too high to block, alas you can only block negative rated folks.

How I started out on ebay was selling small things less than $5 to get my rating up to over a certain mark, cant remember the specific rating as it was so long ago, THEN I put up my "store" in total up to sell. I've never had an issue (where's some wood to knock on?). I do sell niche products that I hand make myself, or are drop shipped and are very specific, not in the electronics category so perhaps I am pretty safe. They are also in the $5-$20 range.

This makes me ponder if you had a history as a seller, say 20 or so, would they(the buyer and ebay) have treated you differently? I think so.

And would a 20 rating seller versus a 1000+rated seller also have different treatment?

Have any of you high rated sellers been duped and Ebay would not take your side?

I did miss a refund of my fees one time, I refunded the buyer and did not know I had to file a claim and by the time I had figured it out, it was past the claim time frame...

There is alot to learn and I still know one day I will likely get burned by any of my web selling avenues, but I've now sold online for 8 years with 100% success minus a couple of refunds I initiated.

I am so sorry for your situation, It is too bad you cannot figure out a clever way to get back to them. I do think that you could file a local police report, that sounds like a fair tactic.

I will be watching this post for more feedback and suggestions.

[Argyle]

I've sold about 400 items and have a 100% satisfaction rating.  I have to say I've never been duped from either side.  My guess is that that's probably because the great majority of items I've bought and sold were cheap (most under $20, every single one under $100 except for the furniture I mentioned).  I did have a box of china arrive broken once because the silly seller didn't pack it very well, but he was very cooperative about getting the insurance to pay and in fact gave me more than I had requested in compensation.  And a few buyers have complained about how slow the package is to arrive (because I live in the middle of nowhere) and why didn't I put tracking on and all?  But when I'm selling them a 75-cent book, I make money on every penny of the postage -- generally the postage adds another 75 cents or a dollar.  And they all have gotten there eventually.  I only sell excess stuff around my house, which is why I'm selling such cheap items.  And then once a buyer complained because I left a part out, which was indeed my fault, and I sent it right away when she notified me.  Sadly I agree that starting out with an expensive item, especially an electronic one, before you've gotten the hang of it, is risky.  I hate that people take advantage of the system.

[Eurotexan]

I did a little snooping on your transaction and see that you were a 0 rated seller. I can definitely say that a 0 rated seller trying to sell any electronics is going to be victim to a scammer. that buyer's rating is too high to block, alas you can only block negative rated folks.

How I started out on ebay was selling small things less than $5 to get my rating up to over a certain mark, cant remember the specific rating as it was so long ago, THEN I put up my "store" in total up to sell. I've never had an issue (where's some wood to knock on?). I do sell niche products that I hand make myself, or are drop shipped and are very specific, not in the electronics category so perhaps I am pretty safe. They are also in the $5-$20 range.

This makes me ponder if you had a history as a seller, say 20 or so, would they(the buyer and ebay) have treated you differently? I think so.

And would a 20 rating seller versus a 1000+rated seller also have different treatment?

Have any of you high rated sellers been duped and Ebay would not take your side?

I did miss a refund of my fees one time, I refunded the buyer and did not know I had to file a claim and by the time I had figured it out, it was past the claim time frame...

There is alot to learn and I still know one day I will likely get burned by any of my web selling avenues, but I've now sold online for 8 years with 100% success minus a couple of refunds I initiated.

I am so sorry for your situation, It is too bad you cannot figure out a clever way to get back to them. I do think that you could file a local police report, that sounds like a fair tactic.

I will be watching this post for more feedback and suggestions.

You, and other posters making the same point, are absolutely right. I shouldn't have sold the headphones having no rating. Ironically my best friend is a gold star eBay seller, if only I had thought to list with him...

It doesn't excuse theft but it definitely makes it easier. Again, I just hate that eBay works like this.

[Eurotexan]

eBay update... so I sent the CEO a letter outlining the fraud (I also advised him his policies needed changing as they were anti-seller). Well, I received an email from one of his assistants today telling me that they would refund me the money I lost. WOO HOO!!! Persistence worked! So happy and very surprised. Still pissed off that jackass buyer got away with it but at least I have been made whole, restores my faith in mankind a little...

[totoro]

Awesome.   It can't be good for the company to have a google search on them lead to a thread like this....  before the happy ending.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Glad there's a happy ending! FWIW, I've sold thousands of dollars worth on eBay over the years without a single issue, but the majority of it (vintage woodworking tools) was stuff that is not likely to attract a bunch of scammy teenagers/foreigners. I have sold some electronics, but feel fortunate to have made all of those sales unscathed.

[Sebastian]

I hate ebay... I have had so many problems with it in the past. People bidding on my stuff then not paying me. People sending me incorrect items etc etc.

Just use Craig's List man. Way easier and then you dont have to deal with shipping

[sobezen]

Sadly I experienced the exact same thing.  The only thing the buyer on evilbay agreed to return the items I sent.  We spoke on the phone and conversed amicably by emails.  But paypal required the buyer to open a request which led to an investigation.  This unknownst to both of us, resulted in the funds becoming frozen in my account.  I make a fatal mistake of not immediately transferring any existing paypal funds out of the account.  And so paypal froze my entire account and then, while investigating the return, they decided I was wrong and refunded the entire amount paid to me!  I was in utter shock and disgust.  Unfortunately paypal royally screwed me over and the buyer, unfortunately was not a man of his word.  In the end he was in possession of the goods AND he got his money back.  At this point he ignore all attempts of communication and even attempted to hide his online presence on various forums.  Years later he returned and admitted he stole from me but never returned either the goods worth $600 or the money. 

So, it was a painful lesson, never leave funds in your account and if you do decide to use their services make sure to create accounts that are not linked to credit cards and other institutions in case they try to freeze or auto charge your account.  Glad your persistence resulted in a successful refund.

[eyePod]

As someone who sells a good amount on eBay, I've only had issues for scams with high end electronics. Everything else goes smoothly. Resold iPhones on there and the buyer tried to say they didn't receive them. I told them to open up a police report and they shut up. I ship using insurance only when the item is out of the usual insurance range, but I do offer returns. EBay will force you to pay out regardless, so I'd rather have a shot at getting the item back. Sucks about your beats though.

[happyfeet]

Quick question - Would having the "No Returns Accepted" on the listing take care of all these return scams?

I've only sold two things on Ebay, but was looking at ramping up my selling and this thread is scary.

Nope.  The Ebay website as soon as you sign on touts the "seller protection policy".  I sell on Ebay and really no problems at all  - yet. 

[ProfWinkie]

Thanks for the heads up