Author Topic: deleted  (Read 29899 times)

henders

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« on: October 11, 2014, 02:28:48 PM »
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« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 09:35:25 PM by henders »

Calvawt

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2014, 02:43:52 PM »
We have the same age difference and currently have a 10 month old and a 2 year, 3 month old. Both are boys, so its a little crazy around here sometimes.  With me just turning 37, I am not sure if I want a third, but my wife does.

2 kids is a lot harder than 1, that is for sure.  I think you two need to talk more about it, maybe she doesn't understand why you only want one.

Janie

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2014, 03:13:58 PM »
You can probably find anonymous people on a message board to side with you, but what difference does it really make? In your shoes I'd consider short term counseling if you can't work it out through conversations from your wife. (Just my two cents, but I think you'll probably make more headway if you hold off on labeling her feelings as "selfish" or caused by her colleague. You want less stress and more time to yourself; she wants another child. It doesn't mean either of you are selfish or wrong, just that you need to work this out--just like lots of other couples.)

totoro

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2014, 03:15:44 PM »
Is there a compromise?  No, not half a kid...

Would you feel different if you didn't have to work or felt you could work PT?  Two kids is more effort, expense and time, but if you are both at FI when you have the second perhaps that would make it easier?  It would also be a good reason not to take $5000 vacations which seems like a reasonable compromise if you don't care about that and would prefer to retire earlier.

totoro

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2014, 03:19:55 PM »
And fwiw the characterization of your wife as nagging and selfish is troublesome. 

It indicates a level of contempt that is not conducive to long-term relationship health.  Research indicates contempt is the single greatest predictor of divorce.  There is some good work done by John Gottmann on this: http://www.gottmanblog.com/2013/04/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism.html

Divorce is going to delay your FI date way more than any other option so maybe having an focus on the relationship health first would be good.

acroy

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2014, 04:23:00 PM »

2 kids is a lot harder than 1, that is for sure.  I think you two need to talk more about it, maybe she doesn't understand why you only want one.

no way; #2, 3 etc are WAY easier than #1. You've done it before, nothing new here, improve & move on.

Buck up OP and do the right thing.

VirginiaBob

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2014, 05:06:18 PM »
Happy wife, happy life.  None of this FIRE stuff means anything if your relationship with your wife is not right. Sounds like you are on the path to divorce unless you start respecting her needs.

bonjourliz

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2014, 05:14:04 PM »
In my world, the vast majority of people who have 1 kid want at least one more.  I am confused why you think her desire for another is based on coworker's... Its a really, really common sentiment. 

But regardless, its an issue you and your wife need to sort through for yourselves.  Counseling sounds like a good idea, as this is a decision which a) isn't really subject to compromise and b) seems very likely to lead to resentment for the "loser."

FWIW, baby #2 was WAY easier for us than #1.  And neither were particularly hard/easy babies.... Just typical.  But we were experienced, and it made a huge difference. As for having two kids instead of one... Sometimes its easier (when they play with each other) and sometimes its harder (when we have split commitments, or they are bickering).

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2014, 05:17:35 PM »
Another thought would be to wait a year or two so you don't have two very little children at the same time. I don't think two kids is that big of a deal. I always wanted a third child, but my first husband--now my ex-husband--wouldn't hear of it. I wish to this day that I had had that third child. OP, you are looking at things in the very short term, I think. Remember that there will be many years ahead of you when that child/children are adults…it could be very nice to have more than one. You will spend many more years as a member of an adult family than you do chasing your rug rats around. But it is really something to be decided between you and your wife, and as others have posted, there does seem to be some troubling negativity there.

Janie

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2014, 05:24:59 PM »
Just wanted to add that I'm sympathetic to your wish to keep your family to its current size. I think it's best if you can work it out respectfully without either of you disparaging the other's wishes. You can make your case without getting into "selfishness" "nagging" etc. (FWIW H wanted another and I didn't. We ended up not having another. No resentment in the long run after we sorted things out between ourselves.) I think this is a question lots of couples have to work out--nothing wrong with consulting with a professional if you're at a standoff and not communicating well.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 08:27:58 PM by Janie »

RunHappy

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2014, 05:31:13 PM »
Having kids and not having kids are, IMO, equally selfish.

I  have seen many of my friends "cave" and have another child because their spouse wanted another....it never works out well.

Having additional children are not to be taken lightly.  I recommend having a serious "sit-down" with your wife and both of you talk honestly about having one or not having one, without acrimony.

I have 2 siblings and I also have one child.  I always regretted having just one, because as my parents get older and are beginning to have health issues it is easier to "spread the load" among my brother, however with only one child that is a lot of responsibility to bear.  I would also like to add I always wanted a large brood, it just didn't work out biologically.

Psychstache

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2014, 05:34:03 PM »
I think the two of you need to sit down and really talk about your relationship and you future. Remove all the distraction of the coworker and the parents. There are only two people's opinions that matter int eh discussion of having children and it is the two people who are going to raise that child for the rest of their lives.

justajane

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2014, 05:53:32 PM »
Like others, I was struck by the way you describe your wife. It reeks of contempt and disrespect. This is a real problem.

Aside from that, I want to present a counter view than has been presented above, namely that the second can be much harder. I have three, and going from one to two was the hardest transition for me. But in my case, the first two were only two years apart. Having a gap might make it easier for you. And really no stranger on the internet can tell you whether it's going to be easier or harder. You won't know until you have a second child.

But the reality is that you don't want a second. I honestly don't know what to tell you. You are at an impasse, and based on the way you describe her, there is a lot of underlying resentment that will only be made worse if you have another child who you don't want. I just had my third four years after my second was born, and going back to diapers, sleepless nights, and all the demands of a newborn is no joke. It's a huge shock to the system. Bless my husband, who was the one who compromised when we had the third.

People say that you can't compromise on this issue, but how often do both partners want the exact same number of kids? I bet it is pretty rare. At some point, someone compromises. Many people think it should always be the one who wants more, but I'm not sure. I do think my husband sometimes feels some negative emotions about the whole thing (especially when we're up for the fourth time at night). He sort of blames me. I told him that's fine, as long as I get to conversely take credit when our third son ends up being a wonderful or successful person ;).

workathomedad

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2014, 06:05:23 PM »
You should have another!

LALALA

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2014, 06:39:52 PM »
Maybe they both had agreed to have only one child and now the wife is caving to outside pressure.

southern granny

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2014, 06:50:01 PM »
 I wonder if the two of you had an agreement (before child number one) of how many children you would have and now one of you is trying to change it?  We had two, a boy and a girl, and there are many times that I wish we had more.   But our son has given us 4 grandchildren, so our lives are full now. 

totoro

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2014, 06:59:52 PM »
One of my regrets is not having more children - they are the best in my books.  I can totally understand wanting more, but it is just not a decision you make without the other party on board and if they are not, I think you need to accept that and look at the situation from a different angle - change glasses.  I do have one friend whose marriage broke up over this issue.  She is now 48 and never did have a second.

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2014, 07:00:34 PM »
And fwiw the characterization of your wife as nagging and selfish is troublesome. 

It indicates a level of contempt that is not conducive to long-term relationship health.  Research indicates contempt is the single greatest predictor of divorce.  There is some good work done by John Gottmann on this: http://www.gottmanblog.com/2013/04/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism.html

Divorce is going to delay your FI date way more than any other option so maybe having an focus on the relationship health first would be good.
I was thinking along these lines.  You're characterizing her as selfish for wanting another child -- couldn't she say the same thing about you? 

As the mother of two, I'll make these comments:

- A sibling is one of the best gifts you can give your child.  It teaches the child that he or she isn't the center of the world.  In terms of teaching the child to share, not to expect the world to bend to his wishes, not to spoil with material goods, it's easier to raise two (or more) than it is to raise a singleton.
- Small children ARE lots of work, and two small children ARE harder to manage than just one.  However, you reach a point where having a built-in playmate actually makes your world easier. 
- Two children are more expensive than one, but the second is cheaper.  You can re-use so many things, and by the time you have the second, you've learned that you don't need so much stuff.




surfhb

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2014, 07:14:32 PM »
^^^.  As an only child myself  I would heed the words above

I say you eat shit on this one.   It's good for your current child, good for your wife and good for you since your wife is happy.    She will always regret it and may end up resenting you. 

You'll have plenty of free time when your FIRE and the kids get older....believe me.   

You plan to be FI in your early 40s!   Get a part time nanny if it helps your marriage....so you delay you're FIRE date a few years....So what?  :). 

« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 07:21:21 PM by surfhb »

Ybserp

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2014, 07:23:11 PM »
Consider talking with your wife. Seriously.

Talk about your life goals.

Number of babies is not the only thing on the life goal's list. What else are you not communicating well about right now? Would she like to take more vacations in the future? Would she like you to become a house husband one day? Would she like get a higher powered career? Does she know about your dreams for FI? Have you explained how excited you are about them and how much you are looking forward to enjoying being FI with her?

(Is she home with child #1 and expecting you to guilt her into going back to work if there is no child #2 to care for? This should be a ridiculous question, but I've really seen it. If that is what is going on here, sit down and talk.)

hdatontodo

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2014, 07:41:14 PM »
Since we are older, we have just the one 6 year old who, with his mom, is constantly on the hunt for playmates his age who are available.

He does bike rides and swimming and poker playing with his Mom, but it's not the same as playing with other kids.

When I grew up, since there were lots of siblings, we'd just play in the yard with each other.

teen persuasion

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2014, 07:57:47 PM »
Another thought would be to wait a year or two so you don't have two very little children at the same time. I don't think two kids is that big of a deal. I always wanted a third child, but my first husband--now my ex-husband--wouldn't hear of it. I wish to this day that I had had that third child. OP, you are looking at things in the very short term, I think. Remember that there will be many years ahead of you when that child/children are adults…it could be very nice to have more than one. You will spend many more years as a member of an adult family than you do chasing your rug rats around. But it is really something to be decided between you and your wife, and as others have posted, there does seem to be some troubling negativity there.

I found that it was easier when my kids were 2.5 to three years apart, vs waiting until the older was in school before having another.  The ones roughly three years apart are closer, better playmates as youngsters.  Also, I love the baby and toddler stages, but they are undeniably tiring.  I still preferred having the kids all little together; it was much harder starting the baby stage all over again with DS5 once we'd gotten kids 1 thru 4 into school.

bacchi

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2014, 08:08:19 PM »
Did anyone fully read the OP's post?

Quote
[W]e nearly ended up in divorce when the first one arrived. Being an INTJ, I value my own time - which I have precious little of with one kid.

And the advice is to just "buck up" and "have another!"?!? OP, if you want to avoid posting in the "WMFD" thread in a few years, talk with your wife and/or go to counseling.

Also, OP, what's with the "late twenties; early thirties" for your wife's age? Do you not know how old she is?

randymarsh

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2014, 09:55:55 PM »
OP and his wife has some issues to discuss, that's for sure.
 
But I can't believe people are encouraging them to have another kid when he says the first one almost caused a divorce. If he really doesn't want another kid that decision should be respected. We hear all the time how women should be in control of their bodies and reproduction should be a choice. Does that not apply to men as well?

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2014, 10:32:52 PM »
OP and his wife has some issues to discuss, that's for sure.
 
But I can't believe people are encouraging them to have another kid when he says the first one almost caused a divorce. If he really doesn't want another kid that decision should be respected. We hear all the time how women should be in control of their bodies and reproduction should be a choice. Does that not apply to men as well?

But when one person really wants another kid, that also puts mega-strain on their marriage. It will be really hard to reach consensus and a state of peace on this. Marriage counseling would not be overkill.

We have one more child than my husband wanted (oops!) and one fewer than I wanted. (FWIW, I never knew I wanted three kids until my second was born.) I actually got pregnant a third time--extra oops--but miscarried. The size of our family has caused more strain in our marriage than any other factor.

We've both had to work hard to make our family work. He's had to work hard at being a father of two when that doesn't come naturally to him, and I've had to work hard to accept that this is the man I married. What do I expect from him, as one person asked me--a complete personality transplant? I will probably always feel wistful when I see a family of two boys (as we have) plus that baby girl I wanted, but our life as our family of four is better than any other way it could be.

I also have to accept that he doesn't have as much toddler-tolerance as might be ideal. So instead of me expecting him to watch the kids on the weekend while I get my haircut or whatnot, I usually find other ways. I work part-time from home and we pay for two days a week of child care, and that's when I see the dentist and so on. And we have a family YMCA membership; the boys and I just about live there. Then Mr. FP can take a whole Saturday, as he does every couple of weeks, to go hiking with a buddy without it causing too much strain on me.

I agree with those who think you are belitting your wife's point of view. Wanting a baby is not like wanting pizza for dinner. It is an ache. Whether you suck it up for a few years and have another child or whether your wife gives in on one child, you will both need to acknowledge the other's viewpoint as valid. Good luck!

former player

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2014, 03:13:47 AM »
I'd just like to say that I don't think OP called his wife "selfish": I think he was making a somewhat jokey reference to "The Selfish Gene".  And sometimes "nagging" is unfortunately an accurate description of what is going on in a marriage.

Having young children around is very hard work and a notorious break-up point for marriages.  If the marriage barely survived one young child, adding another without changing anything else is a recipe for trouble.  The OP's wife cannot expect the OP to have a personality transplant.

I agree OP should consider the following points:

1.  What was the expectation for numbers of children going into the relationship/marriage?  Did the OP's experience with the first child change that and what were the issues?

2.  Is there anything can could be done to make a second child a workable option for the OP?  (The best suggestion here, depending on the age of OP's wife and any fertility issues, seems to be considering whether FI in 2-4 years would remove some or all of the obstacles that OP has with a second child.)

3.  If there is nothing which can be done to make OP happy with the option of a second child, is there anything which can be done to make his wife happy with the option of only one child?

OP needs to sit down quietly with his wife and go through these issues with her.  A counsellor might create a good situation for this to happen and help keep the conversation on track, if the OP thinks it could be difficult for him and his wife to do this on their own - but if he is suggesting it, he needs to be sure that his wife understands that he is only suggesting counselling because he is trying to find the best way through to a decision they can live with together for the rest of their lives.

totoro

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2014, 05:46:21 AM »
Nagging is never a good way to describe a spouse IMO.  It is a word that comes with contempt built-in when describing communication between partners.  There are much more respectful ways to talk about your spouse to others and positive regard is important.

fb132

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2014, 05:51:29 AM »
If I were in his shoes, if I felt one kid is enough, I would stick with only one child. You shouldn't be making a baby if only one is on board and the other simply complies. However, with that said, this should of been discussed and settled before even the first child arrived.There are some issues here, unfortunately I am not qualified to solve them.

justajane

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2014, 08:02:10 AM »
I will probably always feel wistful when I see a family of two boys (as we have) plus that baby girl I wanted, but our life as our family of four is better than any other way it could be.

Just imagine that the third child would have been a boy! I have three boys, and I probably wouldn't have gone for a third child if my motivation was to have a girl. That's a recipe for disaster. It kind of offended me whenever people would say to pregnant me, "Trying for that girl??" I wanted a third kid and was perfectly fine when I found out that it was a boy. Not an ounce of disappointment.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2014, 08:34:39 AM »
I will probably always feel wistful when I see a family of two boys (as we have) plus that baby girl I wanted, but our life as our family of four is better than any other way it could be.

Just imagine that the third child would have been a boy! I have three boys, and I probably wouldn't have gone for a third child if my motivation was to have a girl. That's a recipe for disaster. It kind of offended me whenever people would say to pregnant me, "Trying for that girl??" I wanted a third kid and was perfectly fine when I found out that it was a boy. Not an ounce of disappointment.

When I was, briefly, actually expecting, I just assumed it would be a third boy and was totally fine with that. It just seems like everyone I know is adding a third child to their family and it's always boy-boy-girl. Probably just selection bias :-). I guess my point is, that kind of feeling is what the OP's wife is in for if they stick with one. Don't get me wrong, it's totally liveable, and just a normal adult-choices kind of tradeoff, but... it's there.

alice76

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2014, 10:28:38 AM »
This is the kind of issue you discuss before kids and marriage, as some have pointed out, but once you're living it those plans/ideas often change. It is impossible to fully prepare to have kids. I also think it's fairly common for the infant period to bring couples to the brink if divorce, but many couples forge through and find happiness and a rekindled relationship on the other side, but like FI and other wonderful parts if life, it takes real work. +1 for counseling.

VirginiaBob

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2014, 12:12:14 PM »
If your wife was smart, she should say she wants 3 kids, not 2.  That way, when you say you want 1, and she says she wants 3, you will feel like you won half the battle by compromising for only 2.  Poor negotiation tactic on her part by saying she only wants 2. 

big_owl

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2014, 05:15:56 PM »
Sounds like it's time for a stealth vasectomy.  By the time she figures it out it'll be another year or two and you can deal with the ramifications then.

AccidentalMiser

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2014, 05:27:19 PM »
^^^.  As an only child myself  I would heed the words above

I say you eat shit on this one.   It's good for your current child, good for your wife and good for you since your wife is happy.    She will always regret it and may end up resenting you. 

You'll have plenty of free time when your FIRE and the kids get older....believe me.   

You plan to be FI in your early 40s!   Get a part time nanny if it helps your marriage....so you delay you're FIRE date a few years....So what?  :).

This.  I have five sons.  The ideal number of children to have is two (the number my parents had), the next best choice is zero (which lots of my friends have), the least desirable number is one in my opinion.

Once you discover that your beloved only child is a navel-gazing narcissist who thinks that he/she is a special snowflake, it'll be too late to remedy the situation.

It's simply not going to change your FIRE plans in any meaningful way since you already have one.  There's just no upside to not having another child and keeping your wife happy.  As soon as she has number 2, it's vasectomy time!

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2014, 06:50:41 PM »
I hope this was in jest, because that is truly a recipe for disaster.

Sounds like it's time for a stealth vasectomy.  By the time she figures it out it'll be another year or two and you can deal with the ramifications then.

Janie

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2014, 07:59:08 PM »
Quote
This.  I have five sons.  The ideal number of children to have is two (the number my parents had), the next best choice is zero (which lots of my friends have), the least desirable number is one in my opinion.

Once you discover that your beloved only child is a navel-gazing narcissist who thinks that he/she is a special snowflake, it'll be too late to remedy the situation.


I think there's a lot of unfounded nonsense being spouted about only children here. There are many ways to have a happy family. OP and his wife will want to discuss what's right for their own family, but shouldn't be swayed by stereotypes. (I have 2 kids myself so this isn't bias on my part.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/only-children-lonely-and-selfish.html

MMM's recent post about having one child that includes some resources for further reading. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/09/10/great-news-youre-allowed-to-have-only-one-kid/

justajane

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2014, 06:46:19 AM »
I hope this was in jest, because that is truly a recipe for disaster.

Sounds like it's time for a stealth vasectomy.  By the time she figures it out it'll be another year or two and you can deal with the ramifications then.

Yes, I agree. On the other hand, I found VirginiaBob's comment about the wife's poor negotiating tactics to be absolutely hilarious.

big_owl

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2014, 08:28:01 AM »
I hope this was in jest, because that is truly a recipe for disaster.

Sounds like it's time for a stealth vasectomy.  By the time she figures it out it'll be another year or two and you can deal with the ramifications then.

He just needs to find a doctor who will cover for him in the short term.  My doc didn't require my wife to know about the surgery.  There was some BS form to fill out where she was supposed to sign, but he didn't even ask for it the day of surgery.  When she finally does get ahold the test results indicating sterility, he just needs to make sure and look to the sky while indignantly cursing all those years of keeping his cell phone in his front pocket. 

jka468

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2014, 08:37:56 AM »
This is probably a situation where you two should never have gotten married, but hey, if you don't want another kid and you're sure of that, then don't do it. I really can't believe some of the replies here that basically amount to "suck it up and do it", but oh well.

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2014, 08:48:35 AM »
First you probably need to stop writing off you wife's opinion as some form of competition or echo chamber with another woman, selfish, or just what her parents tell her. It's still her opinion regardless of where she got it from. Just like yours is your opinion.

Second if you can't discuss this without becoming frustrated that's your problem. Not on her. The only thing you need to suck up is figuring out why you don't want kids. And don't toss that reason onto some pseudo-psychological categorization. Learn to communicate/get professional help. No one will be able to tell you anything different. The folks saying just have the kid are not right (not wrong either). The folks saying don't have the kid are not right (not wrong either). There is just not enough information, we don't live your life. If this is something that could potentially wreck your marriage (the having of the kid) then you should figure out why and address it. Again don't hide behind some INTJ crap.

ender

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2014, 08:53:36 AM »
I hope this was in jest, because that is truly a recipe for disaster.

Sounds like it's time for a stealth vasectomy.  By the time she figures it out it'll be another year or two and you can deal with the ramifications then.

He just needs to find a doctor who will cover for him in the short term.  My doc didn't require my wife to know about the surgery.  There was some BS form to fill out where she was supposed to sign, but he didn't even ask for it the day of surgery.  When she finally does get ahold the test results indicating sterility, he just needs to make sure and look to the sky while indignantly cursing all those years of keeping his cell phone in his front pocket.

Yeah I'm sure this will be the key to a lasting and successful marriage.

Louis the Cat

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2014, 09:31:59 AM »
Quote
This.  I have five sons.  The ideal number of children to have is two (the number my parents had), the next best choice is zero (which lots of my friends have), the least desirable number is one in my opinion.

Once you discover that your beloved only child is a navel-gazing narcissist who thinks that he/she is a special snowflake, it'll be too late to remedy the situation.


I think there's a lot of unfounded nonsense being spouted about only children here. There are many ways to have a happy family. OP and his wife will want to discuss what's right for their own family, but shouldn't be swayed by stereotypes. (I have 2 kids myself so this isn't bias on my part.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/only-children-lonely-and-selfish.html

MMM's recent post about having one child that includes some resources for further reading. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/09/10/great-news-youre-allowed-to-have-only-one-kid/

Thanks! As an only child married to an only child, that was particularly hard to read.

Also, can we lay off:
...Both are boys, so its a little crazy around here sometimes...

I was a girl who very nearly drove her parents round the bend, and who's parents have made it very clear that the reason I'm an only child is that they didn't think they could keep me alive if they had another one to keep track of. DH is an introvert to the extreme who's idea of wild and crazy was to stay up after bedtime reading in his closet. We now have twin girls who are far more in my image from a craziness standpoint than DH's. Kids will be who they are, regardless of their chromosomal make-up.

As for the OP, I agree with the others who have questioned the compassion you feel for your wife and also those who have suggested counseling. If you like being married, an adjustment to your outlook would be well founded. This needs to be discussed rationally, not used as ammunition.

Cpa Cat

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2014, 09:53:41 AM »
I feel like I should not have another kid if I don’t want to. I just don’t want to experience the stress of raising a newborn again - we nearly ended up in divorce when the first one arrived. Being an INTJ, I value my own time - which I have precious little of with one kid.

It turned my stomach that people read this text and told this guy to "Buck up" and stop being selfish. "give the gift of siblings." Eug. Barf.

Do you people not realize that he's already struggling to enjoy the first one? You really think that shovelling more kids onto the pile is going to make his life better?

Two is not perfect the number. For the OP, I'm guessing zero was the perfect number, but he's got one now. He clearly needs to be able to focus on enjoying the child he has and on keeping his marriage strong.

Kids don't fix marital problems - they amplify them. No, sorry, folks, but all his problems will NOT go away if he just breeds some more.

Pigeon

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2014, 10:42:34 AM »
I think you guys have more problems than how many kids to have.  Your characterization of your wife's behavior indicates that you don't respect her or her needs and she isn't hearing your needs, either.

I'm of the opinion that where kids are concerned, both people need to be on board or the answer is no.  Kids are a ton of work and if you are doing it right, they change the whole nature of your life.  It's not fair to them if one parent doesn't really want them.

I found going from one to two a huge adjustment.

fb132

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2014, 11:27:23 AM »
I think you guys have more problems than how many kids to have.  Your characterization of your wife's behavior indicates that you don't respect her or her needs and she isn't hearing your needs, either.

I'm of the opinion that where kids are concerned, both people need to be on board or the answer is no.  Kids are a ton of work and if you are doing it right, they change the whole nature of your life.  It's not fair to them if one parent doesn't really want them.

I found going from one to two a huge adjustment.
In that case, he wins, because he doesn't want a kid, so automatically because he isn't on board, then the answer is no.

Pigeon

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2014, 11:34:30 AM »
I think you guys have more problems than how many kids to have.  Your characterization of your wife's behavior indicates that you don't respect her or her needs and she isn't hearing your needs, either.

I'm of the opinion that where kids are concerned, both people need to be on board or the answer is no.  Kids are a ton of work and if you are doing it right, they change the whole nature of your life.  It's not fair to them if one parent doesn't really want them.

I found going from one to two a huge adjustment.
In that case, he wins, because he doesn't want a kid, so automatically because he isn't on board, then the answer is no.

Yes, I think he has a right to veto having another kid.  Nobody should have a kid they don't want.  But neither of them "wins" in the relationship they currently have.  His wife is unhappy because she wants another kid.  He clearly doesn't think highly of his wife, so he's not really winning being married to someone who miserable.

fb132

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2014, 11:38:00 AM »
I think you guys have more problems than how many kids to have.  Your characterization of your wife's behavior indicates that you don't respect her or her needs and she isn't hearing your needs, either.

I'm of the opinion that where kids are concerned, both people need to be on board or the answer is no.  Kids are a ton of work and if you are doing it right, they change the whole nature of your life.  It's not fair to them if one parent doesn't really want them.

I found going from one to two a huge adjustment.
In that case, he wins, because he doesn't want a kid, so automatically because he isn't on board, then the answer is no.

Yes, I think he has a right to veto having another kid.  Nobody should have a kid they don't want.  But neither of them "wins" in the relationship they currently have.  His wife is unhappy because she wants another kid.  He clearly doesn't think highly of his wife, so he's not really winning being married to someone who miserable.
In my mind, they are both guilty.

MandalayVA

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2014, 11:55:41 AM »
If what the OP writes is true, he better make sure to wrap that rascal good or be ready to ditch sex all together because I see an "oopsing" in his future if she's that insistent.  I personally know of three women whose husbands were opposed to having another child who stopped their birth control because "oh, he'll love the new baby once it gets here!"  All of them got pregnant.  All of them are now divorced.

I'm not painting the OP to be the good guy or his wife the baddie, but like others have said the question of the number of children should have been settled before they got married.  It's not like a baby's like a puppy who can be taken back to the pound if things don't work out. 


magnuminator

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2014, 02:09:12 PM »
I agree with those that have stated that the OP shouldn't be dismissive of his wife's wishes and that her wanting a child isn't more or less selfish than the OP's desire for personal time ( t least when measured within the limits of their relationship...as some pointed out the question is more complicated when from an ecological standpoint).  I'd also second the recommendation to look into the Gottmans' work on contempt.  I've been through their workshop and I believe that they're onto something.

At the same time, I'm also happy to see that not too many people told the OP to just "do it for her".  His wants and needs are important, too.

I think Totoro and lizzzi are onto something in suggesting that it's worth considering forms of compromise other than the obviously-impossible (1.5 kids).  This is something that I have been thinking about myself recently because my wife and I are talking about trying to have a (first) child sometime in the relatively near future and she has also said in the past that she thinks she might want two kids.  I told her that I would prefer one child both because I value having some amount of free time and flexibility to do "grownup things" and also for financial reasons.  However, I have also said that I would be happier to think about having two kids (if and when we get to that point) if part of that plan would be to move to a less crowded, more affordable city in order to make things easier for us.  We live in one of the 25 largest cities (admittedly not high on the list) in the US by population and it's both fairly expensive and quite difficult to get around.  I just don't like the idea of juggling two kids' worth of errands and activities.

My wife has received my suggestion pretty well.  I think she'd still rather have two kids *and* stay put, but she is aware that there are financial, logistical, and educational challenges associated with where we live and appreciated that I was trying to think of solutions that would work for both of us. Try to think about ways that you could preserve some of your private time if you had a second child.

Obviously my advice carries the fairly substantial caveat that I haven't actually had to follow through with it yet, at least not beyond raising the idea with my spouse.  And of course your mileage may vary based on your own circumstances.  But I believe that it is worth thinking about different ways that you can both get (enough of) what you want. 

Purple Economist

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Re: DW wants 2 kids, I want one
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2014, 02:25:04 PM »
If what the OP writes is true, he better make sure to wrap that rascal good or be ready to ditch sex all together because I see an "oopsing" in his future if she's that insistent.  I personally know of three women whose husbands were opposed to having another child who stopped their birth control because "oh, he'll love the new baby once it gets here!"  All of them got pregnant.  All of them are now divorced.

I'm not painting the OP to be the good guy or his wife the baddie, but like others have said the question of the number of children should have been settled before they got married.  It's not like a baby's like a puppy who can be taken back to the pound if things don't work out.

How do people who have never had a child settle the question of number of children before they are married?

Obviously, some people have had children before they're married and could perhaps settle the question, but a lot of people have no clue what having and raising a child is all about until they have one of the their own.

Before we got married, I would say my wife wanted more children than me.  We now have three children.  I would like to have a fourth, but she is not sure if she does or not.  It's not a huge deal right now as our youngest is 7 months old, and this could have something to do with her reluctance.  Her feelings may change over the next year or two or they may not.  Regardless, the question of whether to have another child will have to be negotiated at the time when it comes to decide versus 10 years ago when we were married.