Author Topic: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?  (Read 6564 times)

PhrugalPhan

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2022, 05:37:58 PM »
Spinning off of the comment that the pensions are not optional I will add that at my pay rate today I contribute 475 per pay to the pension system.   (24 pay periods per year).  A quick look at my online statement after 28 years of service I have contributed 145,000 over that 28 years. Obviously way early in the years salary was much lower so contributions were much less.  (It is percentage based ) the math still heavily favors the employee in the sense that the payout at the separation time will be much higher. (average of highest 3) for example if I left at the end of 2023 I would recoup everything I have paid in in less than 2 years time.  How can a system like this be sustainable?   The returns on the invested pension money would have to be insanely high.
Does your employer contribute to your pension plan?  My employer's contribution changes yearly based on actuarial findings, and of late the amount has been large (around 20%) which adds quite a few years to the calculation.  I ask as my contributions will be "given back" to me in about the first 3 years.  And as for sustainability I have seen a number of people die before getting to retire (ok, its not a abnormally high number, but enough to make me realize how they are subsidizing others)

Silrossi46

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2022, 10:01:16 AM »
i know they make a standard contribution yearly to fund the system.  I am not sure what the individual contribution would be for each employee.

WGH

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2022, 12:52:13 PM »
I have a County pension which I am required to pay 7% into and then is matched 2.25 times that plus 7% annual interest. My earliest eligibility is at age 51 and so being a good FIREer my plan is to collect the $3,500/month for the rest of my life which along with SS (hopefully) and my own savings will create the traditional 3 legs of the stool approach.

For fun I just went into the calculator and ran the estimate if I retired at age 65 or 70 instead of 51....holy CRAP.....

This is annual for life:

51 - $42,500
55 - $68,400
60 - $116,400
65 - $194,640
70 - $321,828

There was a lady who just retired after 47 years at the County who was a Director and she must now be getting something like $30,000 a month.

I hadn't really looked at the future years.... talk about OMY syndrome....

DoneFSO

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2022, 01:29:03 PM »
Quote from: ROF Expat
Hello again @DoneFSO!


However, particularly in my specialty (ICT), salaries outside the federal government are much higher (though I'd rather not work under the conditions documented at http://livingafi.com).  Also, Foreign Service employees make themselves available to serve worldwide, where we face tropical diseases, crappy health systems, dangerous drivers, poor infrastructure, and long flights back to the US.  The pension somewhat makes up for these issues.


And don't forget having the occasional Chancery building blown up.  Or some moron shooting at you. 

I enjoyed my Foreign Service career, but I feel like I earned my pension and benefits.

I just realized I forgot to tag you @ROF Expat , thanks for the reply.  Fortunately, I haven't experienced either of the two things you mention, but there's a reason I mentioned all the others.

I banged my head against a wall today on an issue that only Washington could help with, and the contractor closed the ticket with no action.  Frustrations like these make it harder to serve the time - I've spent over half my career in high-differential posts dealing with DC's nonsense.

edited to fix quoting

Foreign Service here too, and I upvote all of the above.  The Foreign Service pension plan is definitely phenomenal, but they definitely make you earn it.  Tropical disease?  Yep, got one that almost killed me.  Crazy overseas drivers?  Yup.  Came extremely close to taking a frozen plunge into a river at 0500 in Ukraine a few years back when our (maybe drunk-ish) cab driver spun out on an ice-covered bridge.  Chancery attacks?  Yep, unfortunately been thru a "live" one.  Pretty intense.   Poor infrastructure/health care system?  Seen that in spades.  Nothing like accompanying your toddler son with a fractured cranium into a third-world hospital while packs of wild dogs run in and out of the lobby and everyone, including the staff, are smoking.  Good times.  I could go on, but you get the picture.  I'm sure many of you fellow FSOs have been through the same.  Point is, I'm not gonna feel the slightest guilt about pulling this pension when it comes time to retire in a few years.  A full FS career and it's been earned many times over, in spades.  I'm not sure the general public in the U.S. is really aware of the insanely intense, often dangerous lives we lead overseas in the name of diplomacy.  Start hacking away at the pension system and other benefits, and I'm not sure who'll sign up to lead this kind of life for their country.

I can check a lot of those boxes myself.  However, the fact that I feel I have earned -- and thus deserve -- my pension does not contradict my view that our pension is, nevertheless, insane.  The acceptance rate of the Foreign Service has been around 2% historically.  That means that 10,000 candidates show up at the pearly gates every year.  The Department lets 200 in and sends the remaining 9,800 home.  I would wager that many of those 9,800 candidates -- many of them highly-qualified, mind you -- would happily take the job without a pension.  Would I have?  Probably.  I would not have returned after my sabbatical last year, though, but that is a separate story.

Now then, would the Foreign Service be able to recruit and retain the level of people upon whom it has historically depended if it didn't offer great pensions?  I have met a lot of FSOs, and my impression is that the pension is not a major motivator for most FSOs whom I have met.  It might become more important as they get older, have families, and get closer to retirement, but at the outset of their careers in their 20's, 30's, and early 40's?  I have found my fellow FSOs to be shockingly ignorant of the details or even the value of their pensions.  So I am not under the impression that the FSPS factored very largely in the decision of most FSOs to join the FS.  If it had, I assume they would understand it better.

I am under the impression that what drew most people to the FS is the prestige, the lifestyle, and the substance of the work, all of which strike the average person as "sexy."  A lot of FSOs -- myself included -- are also drawn by service.  On top of that, it is a well-established pathway for the children of elites.  In fact, that aspect of the job predates the United States and will endure after the United States is no more. 

I once read a comment from a retirement system administrator at NASA that every year, a senior scientist is shocked to learn that he will receive a pension when he retires later in the year after 30 years of service.  It appears that NASA doesn't need to offer pensions to recruit scientists.  Can it get the best scientists without it?  It would help to know whether or not the current best scientists at NASA were motivated by the pension.  Were they?  Something tells me they probably weren't.  Because when I think about it, the smartest people at places like NASA and the State Department could have done anything they wanted to.  They are taking a pay cut by working for the government, period.  They get these nice pensions because they are feds, and because those rules were written in stone a long time ago.

I would wager that NASA could stop offering pensions, and it would still get incredible people.  Would it get the very best people?  Who knows.

The pension is insane.  We are fortunate to be workers in a pension scheme that is now 40 years old... a relic of a bygone age.  It doesn't belong to our current world, and it is going to go extinct.

fuzzy math

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2022, 07:09:16 AM »
Lame 1% pension x high 5 avg x yrs of service. No COLA. Just vested a couple months ago. Likely $9-12k a year for me in 25 years if I manage to stay another year or two.
It blows my mind the sweetheart deals some have (300k per yr at 70???) and like @Arbitrage I also think about how it robs other public services. Some police have overtime included in calculations and can end up with $200k a year.


Heres a wild article about a Civil war era child finally dying in 2020. Payouts to children (non disabled) really should not be allowed. Payouts to grandchildren are even worse, they lead to time spans like this article. Even if not expressly disallowed at the time, there should be a ruling board.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/10/irene-triplett-last-civil-war-pensioner-73-monthly-dies/5333830002/
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 07:13:09 AM by fuzzy math »

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2022, 08:39:09 AM »
Quote from: ROF Expat
Hello again @DoneFSO!


However, particularly in my specialty (ICT), salaries outside the federal government are much higher (though I'd rather not work under the conditions documented at http://livingafi.com).  Also, Foreign Service employees make themselves available to serve worldwide, where we face tropical diseases, crappy health systems, dangerous drivers, poor infrastructure, and long flights back to the US.  The pension somewhat makes up for these issues.


And don't forget having the occasional Chancery building blown up.  Or some moron shooting at you. 

I enjoyed my Foreign Service career, but I feel like I earned my pension and benefits.

I just realized I forgot to tag you @ROF Expat , thanks for the reply.  Fortunately, I haven't experienced either of the two things you mention, but there's a reason I mentioned all the others.

I banged my head against a wall today on an issue that only Washington could help with, and the contractor closed the ticket with no action.  Frustrations like these make it harder to serve the time - I've spent over half my career in high-differential posts dealing with DC's nonsense.

edited to fix quoting

Foreign Service here too, and I upvote all of the above.  The Foreign Service pension plan is definitely phenomenal, but they definitely make you earn it.  Tropical disease?  Yep, got one that almost killed me.  Crazy overseas drivers?  Yup.  Came extremely close to taking a frozen plunge into a river at 0500 in Ukraine a few years back when our (maybe drunk-ish) cab driver spun out on an ice-covered bridge.  Chancery attacks?  Yep, unfortunately been thru a "live" one.  Pretty intense.   Poor infrastructure/health care system?  Seen that in spades.  Nothing like accompanying your toddler son with a fractured cranium into a third-world hospital while packs of wild dogs run in and out of the lobby and everyone, including the staff, are smoking.  Good times.  I could go on, but you get the picture.  I'm sure many of you fellow FSOs have been through the same.  Point is, I'm not gonna feel the slightest guilt about pulling this pension when it comes time to retire in a few years.  A full FS career and it's been earned many times over, in spades.  I'm not sure the general public in the U.S. is really aware of the insanely intense, often dangerous lives we lead overseas in the name of diplomacy.  Start hacking away at the pension system and other benefits, and I'm not sure who'll sign up to lead this kind of life for their country.

I resemble that remark as a FERS SCE (we basically have the same pension I think) I have my malaria paperwork from a TDY to what is now South Sudan from 2009.  I know with my crazy job, we have a hard enough time keeping people as it is.  I would not work until my 25 years if it wasn’t for the pension with health care.  Heck, I consider myself work for FEHB at this point.

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2022, 09:02:56 AM »
Quote from: ROF Expat
Hello again @DoneFSO!


However, particularly in my specialty (ICT), salaries outside the federal government are much higher (though I'd rather not work under the conditions documented at http://livingafi.com).  Also, Foreign Service employees make themselves available to serve worldwide, where we face tropical diseases, crappy health systems, dangerous drivers, poor infrastructure, and long flights back to the US.  The pension somewhat makes up for these issues.


And don't forget having the occasional Chancery building blown up.  Or some moron shooting at you. 

I enjoyed my Foreign Service career, but I feel like I earned my pension and benefits.

I just realized I forgot to tag you @ROF Expat , thanks for the reply.  Fortunately, I haven't experienced either of the two things you mention, but there's a reason I mentioned all the others.

I banged my head against a wall today on an issue that only Washington could help with, and the contractor closed the ticket with no action.  Frustrations like these make it harder to serve the time - I've spent over half my career in high-differential posts dealing with DC's nonsense.

edited to fix quoting

Foreign Service here too, and I upvote all of the above.  The Foreign Service pension plan is definitely phenomenal, but they definitely make you earn it.  Tropical disease?  Yep, got one that almost killed me.  Crazy overseas drivers?  Yup.  Came extremely close to taking a frozen plunge into a river at 0500 in Ukraine a few years back when our (maybe drunk-ish) cab driver spun out on an ice-covered bridge.  Chancery attacks?  Yep, unfortunately been thru a "live" one.  Pretty intense.   Poor infrastructure/health care system?  Seen that in spades.  Nothing like accompanying your toddler son with a fractured cranium into a third-world hospital while packs of wild dogs run in and out of the lobby and everyone, including the staff, are smoking.  Good times.  I could go on, but you get the picture.  I'm sure many of you fellow FSOs have been through the same.  Point is, I'm not gonna feel the slightest guilt about pulling this pension when it comes time to retire in a few years.  A full FS career and it's been earned many times over, in spades.  I'm not sure the general public in the U.S. is really aware of the insanely intense, often dangerous lives we lead overseas in the name of diplomacy.  Start hacking away at the pension system and other benefits, and I'm not sure who'll sign up to lead this kind of life for their country.

I can check a lot of those boxes myself.  However, the fact that I feel I have earned -- and thus deserve -- my pension does not contradict my view that our pension is, nevertheless, insane.  The acceptance rate of the Foreign Service has been around 2% historically.  That means that 10,000 candidates show up at the pearly gates every year.  The Department lets 200 in and sends the remaining 9,800 home.  I would wager that many of those 9,800 candidates -- many of them highly-qualified, mind you -- would happily take the job without a pension.  Would I have?  Probably.  I would not have returned after my sabbatical last year, though, but that is a separate story.

Now then, would the Foreign Service be able to recruit and retain the level of people upon whom it has historically depended if it didn't offer great pensions?  I have met a lot of FSOs, and my impression is that the pension is not a major motivator for most FSOs whom I have met.  It might become more important as they get older, have families, and get closer to retirement, but at the outset of their careers in their 20's, 30's, and early 40's?  I have found my fellow FSOs to be shockingly ignorant of the details or even the value of their pensions.  So I am not under the impression that the FSPS factored very largely in the decision of most FSOs to join the FS.  If it had, I assume they would understand it better.

I am under the impression that what drew most people to the FS is the prestige, the lifestyle, and the substance of the work, all of which strike the average person as "sexy."  A lot of FSOs -- myself included -- are also drawn by service.  On top of that, it is a well-established pathway for the children of elites.  In fact, that aspect of the job predates the United States and will endure after the United States is no more. 

I once read a comment from a retirement system administrator at NASA that every year, a senior scientist is shocked to learn that he will receive a pension when he retires later in the year after 30 years of service.  It appears that NASA doesn't need to offer pensions to recruit scientists.  Can it get the best scientists without it?  It would help to know whether or not the current best scientists at NASA were motivated by the pension.  Were they?  Something tells me they probably weren't.  Because when I think about it, the smartest people at places like NASA and the State Department could have done anything they wanted to.  They are taking a pay cut by working for the government, period.  They get these nice pensions because they are feds, and because those rules were written in stone a long time ago.

I would wager that NASA could stop offering pensions, and it would still get incredible people.  Would it get the very best people?  Who knows.

The pension is insane.  We are fortunate to be workers in a pension scheme that is now 40 years old... a relic of a bygone age.  It doesn't belong to our current world, and it is going to go extinct.

I think the FSO pension draw is comparable to the military.  If that assumption is correct, then what I've seen is that yes, almost no one joins the military for the pension, but plenty of people stay for the pension (especially before the change to the BRS).  So it doesn't get bodies in the door, but it keeps around some solid experience once people have been around a while, gotten a little tired, and are now worth far more in salary to a civilian job.  IOW, the pension isn't a recruiting tool, but it is a retention tool.

I think the military would have far fewer experienced officers and enlisted leaders (and far, far less ability to choose which people they want to keep on in those higher ranks) without the pension.  They might be able to fill all the seats--or perhaps would resort to more bonuses to keep people, which they already do to some extent.  But even if they could, it would be more about keeping anyone willing to stay, as opposed to choosing who gets to stay and advance. 

People who are young, idealistic, looking for adventure, and without families to factor in to things will always sign up for these sorts of adventuresome jobs.  But I don't think many/most of them would stay if there wasn't a significant carrot at the end of the stick. 

elysianfields

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2022, 12:10:57 PM »
Quote from: ROF Expat
Hello again @DoneFSO!


However, particularly in my specialty (ICT), salaries outside the federal government are much higher (though I'd rather not work under the conditions documented at http://livingafi.com).  Also, Foreign Service employees make themselves available to serve worldwide, where we face tropical diseases, crappy health systems, dangerous drivers, poor infrastructure, and long flights back to the US.  The pension somewhat makes up for these issues.


And don't forget having the occasional Chancery building blown up.  Or some moron shooting at you. 

I enjoyed my Foreign Service career, but I feel like I earned my pension and benefits.

I just realized I forgot to tag you @ROF Expat , thanks for the reply.  Fortunately, I haven't experienced either of the two things you mention, but there's a reason I mentioned all the others.

I banged my head against a wall today on an issue that only Washington could help with, and the contractor closed the ticket with no action.  Frustrations like these make it harder to serve the time - I've spent over half my career in high-differential posts dealing with DC's nonsense.

edited to fix quoting

Foreign Service here too, and I upvote all of the above.  The Foreign Service pension plan is definitely phenomenal, but they definitely make you earn it.  Tropical disease?  Yep, got one that almost killed me.  Crazy overseas drivers?  Yup.  Came extremely close to taking a frozen plunge into a river at 0500 in Ukraine a few years back when our (maybe drunk-ish) cab driver spun out on an ice-covered bridge.  Chancery attacks?  Yep, unfortunately been thru a "live" one.  Pretty intense.   Poor infrastructure/health care system?  Seen that in spades.  Nothing like accompanying your toddler son with a fractured cranium into a third-world hospital while packs of wild dogs run in and out of the lobby and everyone, including the staff, are smoking.  Good times.  I could go on, but you get the picture.  I'm sure many of you fellow FSOs have been through the same.  Point is, I'm not gonna feel the slightest guilt about pulling this pension when it comes time to retire in a few years.  A full FS career and it's been earned many times over, in spades.  I'm not sure the general public in the U.S. is really aware of the insanely intense, often dangerous lives we lead overseas in the name of diplomacy.  Start hacking away at the pension system and other benefits, and I'm not sure who'll sign up to lead this kind of life for their country.

I can check a lot of those boxes myself.  However, the fact that I feel I have earned -- and thus deserve -- my pension does not contradict my view that our pension is, nevertheless, insane.  The acceptance rate of the Foreign Service has been around 2% historically.  That means that 10,000 candidates show up at the pearly gates every year.  The Department lets 200 in and sends the remaining 9,800 home.  I would wager that many of those 9,800 candidates -- many of them highly-qualified, mind you -- would happily take the job without a pension.  Would I have?  Probably.  I would not have returned after my sabbatical last year, though, but that is a separate story.

Now then, would the Foreign Service be able to recruit and retain the level of people upon whom it has historically depended if it didn't offer great pensions?  I have met a lot of FSOs, and my impression is that the pension is not a major motivator for most FSOs whom I have met.  It might become more important as they get older, have families, and get closer to retirement, but at the outset of their careers in their 20's, 30's, and early 40's?  I have found my fellow FSOs to be shockingly ignorant of the details or even the value of their pensions.  So I am not under the impression that the FSPS factored very largely in the decision of most FSOs to join the FS.  If it had, I assume they would understand it better.

I am under the impression that what drew most people to the FS is the prestige, the lifestyle, and the substance of the work, all of which strike the average person as "sexy."  A lot of FSOs -- myself included -- are also drawn by service.  On top of that, it is a well-established pathway for the children of elites.  In fact, that aspect of the job predates the United States and will endure after the United States is no more. 

I once read a comment from a retirement system administrator at NASA that every year, a senior scientist is shocked to learn that he will receive a pension when he retires later in the year after 30 years of service.  It appears that NASA doesn't need to offer pensions to recruit scientists.  Can it get the best scientists without it?  It would help to know whether or not the current best scientists at NASA were motivated by the pension.  Were they?  Something tells me they probably weren't.  Because when I think about it, the smartest people at places like NASA and the State Department could have done anything they wanted to.  They are taking a pay cut by working for the government, period.  They get these nice pensions because they are feds, and because those rules were written in stone a long time ago.

I would wager that NASA could stop offering pensions, and it would still get incredible people.  Would it get the very best people?  Who knows.

The pension is insane.  We are fortunate to be workers in a pension scheme that is now 40 years old... a relic of a bygone age.  It doesn't belong to our current world, and it is going to go extinct.

I think the FSO pension draw is comparable to the military.  If that assumption is correct, then what I've seen is that yes, almost no one joins the military for the pension, but plenty of people stay for the pension (especially before the change to the BRS).  So it doesn't get bodies in the door, but it keeps around some solid experience once people have been around a while, gotten a little tired, and are now worth far more in salary to a civilian job.  IOW, the pension isn't a recruiting tool, but it is a retention tool.

I think the military would have far fewer experienced officers and enlisted leaders (and far, far less ability to choose which people they want to keep on in those higher ranks) without the pension.  They might be able to fill all the seats--or perhaps would resort to more bonuses to keep people, which they already do to some extent.  But even if they could, it would be more about keeping anyone willing to stay, as opposed to choosing who gets to stay and advance. 

People who are young, idealistic, looking for adventure, and without families to factor in to things will always sign up for these sorts of adventuresome jobs.  But I don't think many/most of them would stay if there wasn't a significant carrot at the end of the stick.
I didn’t join the Foreign Service for the cutting-edge technology we don’t use.  Some of my snarkier IT colleagues claim our outfit’s slogan is “Yesterday’s technology, tomorrow”, but frankly that’s too optimistic.

I took the gig because I was looking for adventure and wanted our children to have the childhood I wish I had had.  I succeeded on both fronts.

Once I got in, I realized what a boon it is to live overseas, paying no rent or utilities (thank you, taxpayers) while renting out one’s HCOL-area house.  Plus serving in high-differential posts adds to your ‘stache while keeping costs generally lower than in the US.  Frugality helps as well - inexpensive travel & lodgings vs. “we must visit all the countries” is one common example, as well as buying cars that are well-suited to the host country and therefore easy to sell at the price paid.  Finally, there’s always carpe per diem from training or TDY trips.

As I’ve said elsewhere, if I wanted to make more money quickly, I’d take an IT job in the private sector in the US, but I don’t need the stress, there’s enough of it working for State.  With fewer than four years to MRA, a private-sector job would have to pay much much more to compensate for the FEHB for life and pension that reaching MRA provides.

TomTX

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2022, 04:27:01 PM »
Heres a wild article about a Civil war era child finally dying in 2020. Payouts to children (non disabled) really should not be allowed.
As noted in the article, she was fundamentally disabled and her benefit was a whole $73/month.

EarlyInJourney

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2022, 08:21:38 PM »
This thread made me remember the story about coach Pat Summit, and how she designated her (pretty young at the time) son as her pension beneficiary:

Tyler Summitt also was designated by his mother to be a non-spouse beneficiary of her state pension. When she retired, Pat Summitt opted to collect a monthly benefit of $14,460, or $173,520 annually in 2012. That benefit, with an annual cost-of-living adjustment, is now collected by Tyler Summitt for the rest of his life. Pat Summitt could have opted instead to collect $21,141 per month, or $253,632 annually, without choosing a beneficiary, and the payments would have ended upon her death.

A News Sentinel analysis in 2014 showed that 2,861 Tennessee Consolidated Retirement System retirees who chose non-spouse beneficiaries and their survivors could draw almost $1 billion, assuming they all lived until age 80. Records showed some retirees had chosen beneficiaries as young as infants to receive lifetime pension payments. More than one-third of the 2,861 beneficiaries were younger than 40 years old at the time of the retiree’s retirement, records showed.


https://www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/college/university-of-tennessee/womens-sports/2016/08/25/pat-summitt-leaves-all-tangible-personal-property-to-son-tyler-in-will/91051106/

iris lily

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2022, 10:19:18 PM »
Yes, I have a  generous pension ($34,000 annually) from two separate city governments. And then, we both get Social Security income. This is Fat FIRE.

Sometimes it is a little sickening really how much our income is. I just looked at that figure today after forgetting the exact amount.  And because we were frugal over decades, we have healthy assets.

Of course it all changes if one of us goes into a nursing home but that would be OK because we have money for that. And when I die my pension goes away and DH is left with a thin SS income but because of our assets he would be fine.


fuzzy math

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2022, 09:24:08 AM »
Heres a wild article about a Civil war era child finally dying in 2020. Payouts to children (non disabled) really should not be allowed.
As noted in the article, she was fundamentally disabled and her benefit was a whole $73/month.

I wasn't stating that she was not disabled. Nor was I stating that her benefit was too high. It was commentary about how unintended consequences in other pensions can span timeframes that no one could conceive of.

BlueHouse

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2022, 03:44:32 PM »
This thread made me remember the story about coach Pat Summit, and how she designated her (pretty young at the time) son as her pension beneficiary:

Tyler Summitt also was designated by his mother to be a non-spouse beneficiary of her state pension. When she retired, Pat Summitt opted to collect a monthly benefit of $14,460, or $173,520 annually in 2012. That benefit, with an annual cost-of-living adjustment, is now collected by Tyler Summitt for the rest of his life. Pat Summitt could have opted instead to collect $21,141 per month, or $253,632 annually, without choosing a beneficiary, and the payments would have ended upon her death.

A News Sentinel analysis in 2014 showed that 2,861 Tennessee Consolidated Retirement System retirees who chose non-spouse beneficiaries and their survivors could draw almost $1 billion, assuming they all lived until age 80. Records showed some retirees had chosen beneficiaries as young as infants to receive lifetime pension payments. More than one-third of the 2,861 beneficiaries were younger than 40 years old at the time of the retiree’s retirement, records showed.


https://www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/college/university-of-tennessee/womens-sports/2016/08/25/pat-summitt-leaves-all-tangible-personal-property-to-son-tyler-in-will/91051106/
I think this one wins.  What is Tennessee going to do when they're out of money?

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #63 on: April 02, 2022, 08:48:07 PM »
Union construction pension here - formula is annual $contributions*1.8%=monthly benefit at retirement age. Typical contribution is $10k/yr, so $180/month per year of service. Plan is well funded, most with 30 years of service come out with 4k/month

shureShote

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2022, 06:46:07 AM »
I am in the ten year window at megacorp where I still get a traditional pension. Those who go back to 2002 get medical and a percentage of their highest salary, reduced before 62. I get no medical, the same percentage but of lifetime average salary, reduced before 67. Better than those after 2012 who get a simple cash balance plan benefit.

I think a key in making it work for the company is so many workers have no clue about any of it. Therefore, it’s not the morale killer it would be otherwise.

Missy B

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2022, 06:41:02 PM »
I had no idea that a city could pay benefits for two generation's lives.

Hopefully the pension is insured somehow in the event that the city can't actually pay those benefits. I think there's an insurer for private sector pensions (PBGC), but I'm not sure about public sector.
Pension obligations are massive and are actually a huge financial risk for a lot of municipalities. Michael Lewis has a chapter devoted to it in his book on the global effects of the 2008 financial crises, Boomerang

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=boomerang+michael+lewis&i=digital-text&crid=34R1PGM0PJNXK&sprefix=boomerang%2Cdigital-text%2C122&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_6_9

Arbitrage

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2022, 08:34:39 AM »
I had no idea that a city could pay benefits for two generation's lives.

Hopefully the pension is insured somehow in the event that the city can't actually pay those benefits. I think there's an insurer for private sector pensions (PBGC), but I'm not sure about public sector.
Pension obligations are massive and are actually a huge financial risk for a lot of municipalities. Michael Lewis has a chapter devoted to it in his book on the global effects of the 2008 financial crises, Boomerang

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=boomerang+michael+lewis&i=digital-text&crid=34R1PGM0PJNXK&sprefix=boomerang%2Cdigital-text%2C122&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_6_9

The public sector pensions are "insured" by the taxpayers.  Taxes go up to cover the obligations.  Might not be the way that all states do it, but in California, the excess is paid out of the general fund, and any obligations are guaranteed by law, so can't be cut like other services.  Increasing pension obligations crowd out other items, and the states/municipalities must increase revenue or cut other services.  When raising the taxes, they state that they increase is necessary to cover schools/teachers, police, firefighters, emergency services, or whatever tugs on heartstrings.  It's not wrong, per se, but the main reason the funding for those other items is short is the pensions.

partgypsy

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Re: Do you have an insane pension or benefit plan?
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2022, 11:34:12 AM »
I have a Fed pension but it's not insane (newer rules not old rules) plus I will need to split it with ex once retire. The more I work past our divorce thee more I will proportionately take of that ount. It's complicated. Only thing good, is since he remarried before 50 I don't have to pay the additional amount required for making sure spousal benefits are covered in case of my death. I would be interested in cover my kids for that amount (if allowed)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 11:37:13 AM by partgypsy »