Author Topic: Does solar power save money?  (Read 24661 times)

nereo

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #100 on: June 27, 2016, 07:03:12 PM »
Regarding ground mount vs. roof mount; I have both and I feel the ground mount is far superior to roof mount if you use the pole mounts.  The pole mounts i have are basically a rack/frame mounted at the top of an 8 inch heavy wall pipe. 
What's the difference in power output between your panels that are roof mounted and those on pole mounts?

Cadman

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #101 on: June 27, 2016, 08:12:54 PM »
The 'over-generation' situation is interesting, as most household size solar plants are in the 5kw range. Turn on a clothes dryer and you've wiped that out. Or for that matter, the neighbor's AC unit. It makes me wonder how the situation is handled in Europe where rooftop solar has been common for years. If this were a real problem, there's no reason a utility couldn't "dial back" a producer's power similar to that of demand metering, only in reverse. Arrays are typically wired in multiple strings that could be opened by contactors; no waste, the panels are simply open circuit. In times of "over generation" simply tell the smart meters of the customers running 'off peak' to come back online, or restore their smart t-stat temps. Though it's all pretty silly. I can't believe over-generation is a serious problem...not when megawatts of power are routinely routed out of district via high-voltage DC lines to other jurisdictions.

In many ways having a random distribution of solar generation tends to be a good thing for the utilities. When you consider peak heating and cooling loads, their use coincides pretty closely with peak solar generation, less burden on the infrastructure and distribution equipment. Makes me wonder if something political is at play.


dragoncar

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #102 on: June 27, 2016, 08:42:47 PM »


In many ways having a random distribution of solar generation tends to be a good thing for the utilities. When you consider peak heating and cooling loads, their use coincides pretty closely with peak solar generation, less burden on the infrastructure and distribution equipment. Makes me wonder if something political is at play.

Ok 1) what do you mean by "random distribution of solar generation

2) how does peak heating load coincide with peak solar generation?

Cadman

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #103 on: June 27, 2016, 08:57:57 PM »
Dragoncar, I'm talking about you, a neighbor down the street, a guy a block over, a business a mile down the road, etc. having panels. The current bottleneck is one or more central plants generating power at a high enough voltage to get to your neighborhood. A complex network of transformers and overcurrent devices to eventually get that down to usable levels miles and miles away. Any individual node drawing more power than others creates problems, so there's a continuous balancing act of load management. However, you add these small solar setups of 5-10kw here and there and you effectively smooth out that imbalance by providing power within the node that also coincides with those peak demands.

To question 2, I was thinking along the lines of the midwest and northern states. Lots of mid-day A/C use in the summer and lots of electrical heat generating in the winter. Even those on LP and nat gas like their space heaters, bath heat, heat pump elements and baseboards. Perhaps the load isn't as great as A/C, but our available daylight hours are less that time of year, too, so it matches pretty well.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #104 on: June 27, 2016, 09:42:04 PM »
With pole mounts I can tilt the panels more south in the winter and make them nearly flat in the summer.  Besides getting more energy production, I also don't have to remove snow in the winter.

What?  No east / west auto tracking?  lol
Obviously you mount each on it's own pickup truck and drive them around 

NaturallyHappier

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2016, 03:43:13 AM »
Regarding ground mount vs. roof mount; I have both and I feel the ground mount is far superior to roof mount if you use the pole mounts.  The pole mounts i have are basically a rack/frame mounted at the top of an 8 inch heavy wall pipe. 
What's the difference in power output between your panels that are roof mounted and those on pole mounts?

It is hard to quantify the difference since it happens over a period of time, but I can see a couple hundred watt increase on a sunny day when I tilt them.

nereo

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2016, 06:00:22 AM »
Regarding ground mount vs. roof mount; I have both and I feel the ground mount is far superior to roof mount if you use the pole mounts.  The pole mounts i have are basically a rack/frame mounted at the top of an 8 inch heavy wall pipe. 
What's the difference in power output between your panels that are roof mounted and those on pole mounts?

It is hard to quantify the difference since it happens over a period of time, but I can see a couple hundred watt increase on a sunny day when I tilt them.

Are they not hooked up to a monitor?  I'd be really interested to know - I completely believe that pole-mounted panels on trackers generate more power than those fixed onto a south-facing roof, but I'd love to see the some real-world comparisons.  Is it a 20% advantage or a 100% advantage.  The biggest difference seems like it would be in the a.m. when the roof-mounted panels are shaded by the roofline, but that's also when irradiance is near the lowest intensity (among daylight hours).

Parents are installing panels on their roof at the end of this summer, but they don't have a good pole-mounted option.  Our next location might have the space to do it, though.

Cadman

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2016, 07:44:12 AM »
If you guys haven't played around with it already, http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/ is a good resource for plugging in different variables to determine their effects. Fixed vs tracking, orientation, panel angle, etc. Wouldn't be all that difficult to compare a roof mount with fixed inputs to an adjustable system.

nereo

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Re: Does solar power save money?
« Reply #108 on: June 28, 2016, 07:45:21 AM »
If you guys haven't played around with it already, http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/ is a good resource for plugging in different variables to determine their effects. Fixed vs tracking, orientation, panel angle, etc. Wouldn't be all that difficult to compare a roof mount with fixed inputs to an adjustable system.

Thanks - exactly the sort of info I was looking for.