Author Topic: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?  (Read 2963 times)

Captain Cactus

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Today I got a letter from The White House about the expanded Child Tax Credit (associated with the "American Rescue Plan"). 

Joe wants to give me more free money.  Not just once, but repeatedly each month until the kids outgrow it.  Around $400+/month.

I'd like to set this aside for the kids when they're older.  Maybe put it straight into their 529 college savings plans.  Any thoughts on how to automatically invest this money each month as it comes in?  Is it possible to have this money sent directly to a Vanguard account?  Or does this have to pass into my checking account first, then I transfer it over manually?

Any other creative uses for this "credit" that you're thinking about?

boarder42

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2021, 01:15:59 PM »
Money is fungible. Follow the investment order.

And this is a tax break for the middle class. Not free money.  Rather have money going to people with kids than Jeff bezos hopefully the next reconciliation makes this permanent and we fix the tax loop holes the mega rich utilize.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 01:18:18 PM by boarder42 »

Sibley

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2021, 01:18:41 PM »
What boarder said.

Money is money. Increase your savings rate. Pay down debt. Whatever. Just be aware that it's an advance credit - so if the calcs are different you might have to pay some back.

slappy

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2021, 01:28:14 PM »
I'm going to put it aside in case I end up owing it back at the end of the year. My AGI was $165k so I"m not sure I was supposed to be getting it.

boarder42

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2021, 03:02:05 PM »
I'm going to put it aside in case I end up owing it back at the end of the year. My AGI was $165k so I"m not sure I was supposed to be getting it.

Well you still get a 2k tax credit. So you can probably spend it since it's only 300 a month and if your agi was too big past year ymthen you will get a smaller credit down to 0 monthly.

Jenny Wren

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2021, 03:31:36 PM »
It's my understanding this is the normal child tax credit, they are just paying it out monthly instead of when you pay taxes. I opted out of monthly payments as it would throw off our annual taxes - we are self employed and tax credits are calculated into how much we pay into our quarterly taxes. If you have your tax withdrawals on your paychecks honed in to a near $0 refund, be aware that these payments will throw that off and you may actually end up owing taxes in 2022.

slappy

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2021, 03:35:20 PM »
It's my understanding this is the normal child tax credit, they are just paying it out monthly instead of when you pay taxes. I opted out of monthly payments as it would throw off our annual taxes - we are self employed and tax credits are calculated into how much we pay into our quarterly taxes. If you have your tax withdrawals on your paychecks honed in to a near $0 refund, be aware that these payments will throw that off and you may actually end up owing taxes in 2022.

Yes, this is a concern of mine. I was trying to adjust my witholdings to get a near zero refund, but i'm not sure it's going to work out for me.

slappy

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2021, 03:37:56 PM »
I'm going to put it aside in case I end up owing it back at the end of the year. My AGI was $165k so I"m not sure I was supposed to be getting it.

Well you still get a 2k tax credit. So you can probably spend it since it's only 300 a month and if your agi was too big past year ymthen you will get a smaller credit down to 0 monthly.

You are probably right there, but I don't feel like I have a good understanding of how it is going to affect my taxes. I just haven't looked into it much. I usually have a pretty good handle on it, so this is throwing me off.

kanga1622

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2021, 03:55:01 PM »
I plan to drop ours into the kids’ savings accounts until we file taxes next year. We usually get a tiny refund so I want to be sure we don’t owe with this “prepayment” and several other changes we have in July-Dec. My best estimate is we will likely owe a tiny amount in April so this money can be transferred to their college fund at that time.

boarder42

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2021, 07:05:31 PM »
Everyone here knows you can calculate your taxes and figure this out without letting money sit doing nothing for half a year for no reason.

Captain Cactus

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2021, 06:47:30 AM »
Thanks to everyone for your replies!  Vanguard non-retirement account it is!

Psychstache

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2021, 06:53:35 AM »
I'm going to put it aside in case I end up owing it back at the end of the year. My AGI was $165k so I"m not sure I was supposed to be getting it.

Well you still get a 2k tax credit. So you can probably spend it since it's only 300 a month and if your agi was too big past year ymthen you will get a smaller credit down to 0 monthly.

You are probably right there, but I don't feel like I have a good understanding of how it is going to affect my taxes. I just haven't looked into it much. I usually have a pretty good handle on it, so this is throwing me off.

It should have a minimal impact.

In my case, as an example, last year I got a $2k credit for my child (sidenote for the math: this child is under 6). This year I will get 6 checks of $300 for a total of $1800 as an advance credit. The 2021 credit was increased to $3600, so I will claim the remainder of the $1800 credit on my taxes this year. So $2000 vs $1800 credit from 2020 to 2021.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2021, 07:13:04 AM »
With six kids these advance payments basically cover our monthly rent.

It feels kind of absurd that I can make close to six figures and still be showered with helicopter money.

I guess it will help pay for the inflation we're all experiencing. It's almost like all this extra money is causing inflation. That's crazy talk I know.

wageslave23

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2021, 07:30:31 AM »
With six kids these advance payments basically cover our monthly rent.

It feels kind of absurd that I can make close to six figures and still be showered with helicopter money.

I guess it will help pay for the inflation we're all experiencing. It's almost like all this extra money is causing inflation. That's crazy talk I know.

Yeah there really is no such thing as free money.  Even when you can print it.

Jenny Wren

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2021, 08:23:19 AM »
With six kids these advance payments basically cover our monthly rent.

It feels kind of absurd that I can make close to six figures and still be showered with helicopter money.

I guess it will help pay for the inflation we're all experiencing. It's almost like all this extra money is causing inflation. That's crazy talk I know.

It's because they have to cast a wide net or the changes don't get voted in. If the money goes to the middle class, it gets voted in as "relief." If the relief only goes to low income families like mine, then it is considered a "handout" and doesn't get any votes.

boarder42

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2021, 11:28:49 AM »
With six kids these advance payments basically cover our monthly rent.

It feels kind of absurd that I can make close to six figures and still be showered with helicopter money.

I guess it will help pay for the inflation we're all experiencing. It's almost like all this extra money is causing inflation. That's crazy talk I know.

It's because they have to cast a wide net or the changes don't get voted in. If the money goes to the middle class, it gets voted in as "relief." If the relief only goes to low income families like mine, then it is considered a "handout" and doesn't get any votes.

Also people living in lcol areas benefit more from the federal tax code and changes like this.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2021, 11:56:27 AM »
Looks like my first deposit hit my bank account today. Only $250 per child even though two are under 6. Not a big deal, this is all just an advance on the 2021 tax credits. I don't think I'll ever beat last years -60% income tax rate (combat zone tax exclusion for most of my income last year).

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2021, 01:19:28 PM »
It's my understanding this is the normal child tax credit, they are just paying it out monthly instead of when you pay taxes. I opted out of monthly payments ....
We did the same.  It's possible that our income will be substantially larger this year than last, which means our tax liability is ....er liable to increase, and I really don't like the idea of writing out a giant check next spring.  We had considered investing it on behalf of our kids, but that was before I realized it was merely an advance on next year's CTC.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2021, 01:54:32 PM »
I predict there will be at least one story in the click bait media about how families are actually harmed by this. 

Usually the extra money shows up once a year and it is a bit of a windfall.  Something gets paid off or repaired or some larger durable item is purchased; there is some oomph injected all at once.  It is like a mini savings account and a family is able to move swiftly ahead on something or another, the "relief" is felt and identifiable. 

Now the monthly income will be absorbed, life will expand to meet it, and there will be no oomph.

MMM-minded folks don't have to worry about this. 

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2021, 03:02:06 PM »
I predict there will be at least one story in the click bait media about how families are actually harmed by this. 
100% agree.  The first two rounds of money were no-strings-attached, plus the extra child tax credit.  I consider myself to be generally better-informed than most people in terms of taxes, and even I didn't understand until recently that the July-December payments are an advance on money that is expected to be paid out as refunds next year anyway.

I'm betting there will be a lot of people that:
1) spend all the money, and then are shocked next April to find out that they have to write a check to the IRS, or
2) spend all the money, and then are shocked next April to find out that they won't be getting the big refund check they're accustomed to.

SciLearner357

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2021, 03:10:02 PM »
From. the Wall Street Journal

https://www.wsj.com/articles/child-tax-credit-payments-11626294557?mod=hp_lead_pos7

Your Child Tax Credit Payment Just Arrived. Are You Sure You Want It?
More than 35 million U.S. households are now getting monthly cash payments of their 2021 child tax credits. While the payments will help some families greatly, they could also bring unexpected tax bills next year.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2021, 03:32:49 PM »
I predict there will be at least one story in the click bait media about how families are actually harmed by this. 
100% agree.  The first two rounds of money were no-strings-attached, plus the extra child tax credit.  I consider myself to be generally better-informed than most people in terms of taxes, and even I didn't understand until recently that the July-December payments are an advance on money that is expected to be paid out as refunds next year anyway.

I'm betting there will be a lot of people that:
1) spend all the money, and then are shocked next April to find out that they have to write a check to the IRS, or
2) spend all the money, and then are shocked next April to find out that they won't be getting the big refund check they're accustomed to.

Yes. I'm continuously amazed at how financially illiterate some people are.

boarder42

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2021, 03:33:56 PM »
I predict there will be at least one story in the click bait media about how families are actually harmed by this. 
100% agree.  The first two rounds of money were no-strings-attached, plus the extra child tax credit.  I consider myself to be generally better-informed than most people in terms of taxes, and even I didn't understand until recently that the July-December payments are an advance on money that is expected to be paid out as refunds next year anyway.

I'm betting there will be a lot of people that:
1) spend all the money, and then are shocked next April to find out that they have to write a check to the IRS, or
2) spend all the money, and then are shocked next April to find out that they won't be getting the big refund check they're accustomed to.

Yes. I'm continuously amazed at how financially illiterate some people are.

Most people. And it's not amazing. It's sad and a problem in the education system.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2021, 03:42:28 PM »
I predict there will be at least one story in the click bait media about how families are actually harmed by this. 
100% agree.  The first two rounds of money were no-strings-attached, plus the extra child tax credit.  I consider myself to be generally better-informed than most people in terms of taxes, and even I didn't understand until recently that the July-December payments are an advance on money that is expected to be paid out as refunds next year anyway.

I'm betting there will be a lot of people that:
1) spend all the money, and then are shocked next April to find out that they have to write a check to the IRS, or
2) spend all the money, and then are shocked next April to find out that they won't be getting the big refund check they're accustomed to.

Yes. I'm continuously amazed at how financially illiterate some people are.

Most people. And it's not amazing. It's sad and a problem in the education system.

I'm reminded of a phrases involving horses and water.


I pushed hard on financial literacy for my 130 Soldiers prior to deploying in 2019. I explained that they could put money into a savings account with a guaranteed return of 10%. How they could get a 5% match on money in their Thrift Savings Plan (401k). How they could put tax free money into the Roth TSP and never pay any taxes ever on all the principal and growth. How they should not blow all the money they made and saved during this deployment on a vehicle as soon as they got home.

When I asked how many people took advantage of any of these amazing opportunities it was perhaps 10-20%.

I make more money than any of them (at least at drill and while deployed) and pulled up in my $2,800 18-year old pickup truck. Meanwhile I see guys making less than half what I do pull up in new $30-40K trucks.

Jenny Wren

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2021, 03:49:41 PM »
I predict there will be at least one story in the click bait media about how families are actually harmed by this. 

Usually the extra money shows up once a year and it is a bit of a windfall.  Something gets paid off or repaired or some larger durable item is purchased; there is some oomph injected all at once.  It is like a mini savings account and a family is able to move swiftly ahead on something or another, the "relief" is felt and identifiable. 

Now the monthly income will be absorbed, life will expand to meet it, and there will be no oomph.

MMM-minded folks don't have to worry about this.

There has been plenty of research if you care to google it that the supposed "oomph" payment once a year to low income families is swallowed by predatory tax refund advance loans, paying off interest on late payments accrued over the year, or swallowed by the myriad of advertisers that prey on the low income with tax refund "deals." There has been an equal amount of studies done that show when the money is trickled out to low income people, they tend to spend it on necessities so that those late payment penalties don't build up all year long. Implying that poor people can't budget shows privilege and is kind of gross. It's not that low income people can't budget, it's that we don't have enough to cover the basics let alone something unexpected. Our family got tax refunds for years and never got ahead or could save much. Income went up just a few hundred a month a couple of years back and suddenly we could save more than that a month. Why? Because an extra few hundred meant an emergency fund, no more late fees, annual payment discounts on insurance, and an end to all the little extra costs one must pay when one can't make ends meet. A small bump in monthly income has been the catalyst for every family I know that has made their way out of poverty.

As for the middle class, whom were included in this only so most of the poor hating reps would actually pass the relief, they are the ones most likely to blow it on lifestyle inflation then have to pay it back. But honestly, I have little empathy for middle class earners with no financial literacy. They have the income and usually the privileged background that leaves little room to excuse their ignorance. I say this as someone who has lived below the poverty line most of her adult life but was raised middle class and with all of the privileges that bestowed.

Lucky Recardito

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2021, 04:00:00 PM »
It's my understanding this is the normal child tax credit, they are just paying it out monthly instead of when you pay taxes. I opted out of monthly payments as it would throw off our annual taxes - we are self employed and tax credits are calculated into how much we pay into our quarterly taxes. If you have your tax withdrawals on your paychecks honed in to a near $0 refund, be aware that these payments will throw that off and you may actually end up owing taxes in 2022.

Seems like this thread is going in a different direction topic-wise, but wondering who else has been successful here? I tried to do this and got caught up in the "create an account" loop -- the ID.me system didn't work properly on my end, and now I have to video-chat with someone to get access? I would prefer not to be sent $$ for the withholding math reasons mentioned here, but so far I'm locked out...

Proud Foot

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2021, 04:06:10 PM »
It's my understanding this is the normal child tax credit, they are just paying it out monthly instead of when you pay taxes. I opted out of monthly payments ....
We did the same.  It's possible that our income will be substantially larger this year than last, which means our tax liability is ....er liable to increase, and I really don't like the idea of writing out a giant check next spring.  We had considered investing it on behalf of our kids, but that was before I realized it was merely an advance on next year's CTC.

I opted out as well. The IRS used my 2019 return for eligibility purposes since they haven't gotten around to processing my 2020 return. 2020 Return put us well over the phase out of the increased credit amount.

Jenny Wren

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2021, 04:15:00 PM »
It's my understanding this is the normal child tax credit, they are just paying it out monthly instead of when you pay taxes. I opted out of monthly payments as it would throw off our annual taxes - we are self employed and tax credits are calculated into how much we pay into our quarterly taxes. If you have your tax withdrawals on your paychecks honed in to a near $0 refund, be aware that these payments will throw that off and you may actually end up owing taxes in 2022.

Seems like this thread is going in a different direction topic-wise, but wondering who else has been successful here? I tried to do this and got caught up in the "create an account" loop -- the ID.me system didn't work properly on my end, and now I have to video-chat with someone to get access? I would prefer not to be sent $$ for the withholding math reasons mentioned here, but so far I'm locked out...

The Id.me thing was annoying, but went smoothly on my end. I had to upload my ID and a selfie through a text link to my phone. Hopefully you can get it straightened out!

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2021, 04:31:03 PM »
It's my understanding this is the normal child tax credit, they are just paying it out monthly instead of when you pay taxes. I opted out of monthly payments as it would throw off our annual taxes - we are self employed and tax credits are calculated into how much we pay into our quarterly taxes. If you have your tax withdrawals on your paychecks honed in to a near $0 refund, be aware that these payments will throw that off and you may actually end up owing taxes in 2022.

Seems like this thread is going in a different direction topic-wise, but wondering who else has been successful here? I tried to do this and got caught up in the "create an account" loop -- the ID.me system didn't work properly on my end, and now I have to video-chat with someone to get access? I would prefer not to be sent $$ for the withholding math reasons mentioned here, but so far I'm locked out...

I didn't have any luck with ID.me. I did find the email went to another account I don't normally check but I had to enter a code or click that link within a limited amount of time.

I was going to use their app but then I read nothing but 1-star reviews - I guess a lot of states use it for unemployment and many people had trouble with it.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2021, 05:08:00 PM »
Seems like this thread is going in a different direction topic-wise, but wondering who else has been successful here? I tried to do this and got caught up in the "create an account" loop -- the ID.me system didn't work properly on my end, and now I have to video-chat with someone to get access? I would prefer not to be sent $$ for the withholding math reasons mentioned here, but so far I'm locked out...

Same.  ID.me texted me a link, but the app refused to take a picture of my ID.  I haven't looked into next steps, but if I have to video chat with someone to get it resolved, that's pretty annoying.

I have my withholdings set up to come out about even when filing.  Based on last year's return they're going to send one half of $3k per kid x 3, but with this year's AGI we'll likely only be eligible for ~$2k per kid.  So we'll end up paying ~$4,500 at tax time.   Does this mean I'm supposed to make estimated quarterly tax payments now, all because of an advance credit I didn't ask for?

Runrooster

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2021, 07:10:21 PM »
So we'll end up paying ~$4,500 at tax time.   Does this mean I'm supposed to make estimated quarterly tax payments now, all because of an advance credit I didn't ask for?

yes, you should make estimated quarterly tax payments.

Lucky Recardito

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2021, 07:34:41 AM »
It's my understanding this is the normal child tax credit, they are just paying it out monthly instead of when you pay taxes. I opted out of monthly payments as it would throw off our annual taxes - we are self employed and tax credits are calculated into how much we pay into our quarterly taxes. If you have your tax withdrawals on your paychecks honed in to a near $0 refund, be aware that these payments will throw that off and you may actually end up owing taxes in 2022.

Seems like this thread is going in a different direction topic-wise, but wondering who else has been successful here? I tried to do this and got caught up in the "create an account" loop -- the ID.me system didn't work properly on my end, and now I have to video-chat with someone to get access? I would prefer not to be sent $$ for the withholding math reasons mentioned here, but so far I'm locked out...

The Id.me thing was annoying, but went smoothly on my end. I had to upload my ID and a selfie through a text link to my phone. Hopefully you can get it straightened out!

Yeah, I got hung up on the selfie part -- the system couldn't get a pic that it found acceptable, despite me trying like 10x in various lighting conditions. Then it locked me out until I talk to a person. On my list to continue, just haven't felt motivated enough to jump thru more hoops yet! This is probably a good push for me...

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2021, 07:35:01 AM »
So we'll end up paying ~$4,500 at tax time.   Does this mean I'm supposed to make estimated quarterly tax payments now, all because of an advance credit I didn't ask for?

yes, you should make estimated quarterly tax payments.
Thats a pain if you are not already making estimates.  Just go unenroll, the one check I'm guessing you've gotten so far shouldn't make much difference.

Lucky Recardito

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2021, 07:37:17 AM »
So we'll end up paying ~$4,500 at tax time.   Does this mean I'm supposed to make estimated quarterly tax payments now, all because of an advance credit I didn't ask for?

yes, you should make estimated quarterly tax payments.
Thats a pain if you are not already making estimates.  Just go unenroll, the one check I'm guessing you've gotten so far shouldn't make much difference.

FWIW, my Plan A is to unenroll; if I can't get that sorted out in the next ~month, I'll probably re-calculate and change my withholding settings for the rest of the year. Eh?

wageslave23

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2021, 09:01:22 AM »
FYI - normally the tax credit is $2000 per kid.  This year its $3600.  $300x6 =$1800 advance payment on the $3600.  So the advance payments will only reduce your normal tax credit at year end by $200.  Unless, your income changed signicantly from 2020 to 2021 and you no longer qualify, you can stop worrying about how these payments are going to affect how much you owe at tax time.

Phenix

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2021, 10:04:00 AM »
This advanced credit actually works to my advantage.  I'm claiming max dependents on my W-4 for federal withholding at my work place and was still slated to receive a $6k refund when I file my 2021 tax return.  So now, I'll be getting $900/month (3 kids under 6) which will reduce my refund to under $1k.  So now I can use the money this year instead of waiting until late February or March of next year.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2021, 09:10:56 PM »
FYI - normally the tax credit is $2000 per kid.  This year its $3600.  $300x6 =$1800 advance payment on the $3600.  So the advance payments will only reduce your normal tax credit at year end by $200.  Unless, your income changed signicantly from 2020 to 2021 and you no longer qualify, you can stop worrying about how these payments are going to affect how much you owe at tax time.

$3,600 for children 6 and under, $3,000 for the rest.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2021, 07:26:14 AM »
FYI - normally the tax credit is $2000 per kid.  This year its $3600.  $300x6 =$1800 advance payment on the $3600.  So the advance payments will only reduce your normal tax credit at year end by $200.  Unless, your income changed signicantly from 2020 to 2021 and you no longer qualify, you can stop worrying about how these payments are going to affect how much you owe at tax time.

And yet the math isn't so favorable if you have multiple kids over the age of 6, especially if your AGI in 2021 phases you out of some or all of the expanded credit.

If your (MFJ) AGI was $150k in 2020, you only need $19,001 additional AGI in 2021 to reduce the expanded $3,000 credit back to $2,000.

In that case, if you had your withholdings set to neutral (approx $0 refund or owed), then every penny of the advance tax credit will be owed back when you file your 2021 taxes.  That's $1,500 per kid over the age of 6.

It's surprisingly easy to realize an additional $20k or more of AGI in a year through some combination of raises, bonuses, side hustles, and diverting some pre-tax savings to post-tax (e.g. Roth conversions).

If your AGI is identical in 2020 and 2021 (and doesn't exceed $150k), then each $1,500 you get in advance payments will be partially offset by the additional $1,000 from the expanded credit.  So you'd owe $500 per kid over the age of six.

ender

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2021, 07:30:37 AM »
FYI - normally the tax credit is $2000 per kid.  This year its $3600.  $300x6 =$1800 advance payment on the $3600.  So the advance payments will only reduce your normal tax credit at year end by $200.  Unless, your income changed signicantly from 2020 to 2021 and you no longer qualify, you can stop worrying about how these payments are going to affect how much you owe at tax time.

And yet the math isn't so favorable if you have multiple kids over the age of 6, especially if your AGI in 2021 phases you out of some or all of the expanded credit.

If your (MFJ) AGI was $150k in 2020, you only need $19,001 additional AGI in 2021 to reduce the expanded $3,000 credit back to $2,000.

In that case, if you had your withholdings set to neutral (approx $0 refund or owed), then every penny of the advance tax credit will be owed back when you file your 2021 taxes.  That's $1,500 per kid over the age of 6.

It's surprisingly easy to realize an additional $20k or more of AGI in a year through some combination of raises, bonuses, side hustles, and diverting some pre-tax savings to post-tax (e.g. Roth conversions).

If your AGI is identical in 2020 and 2021 (and doesn't exceed $150k), then each $1,500 you get in advance payments will be partially offset by the additional $1,000 from the expanded credit.  So you'd owe $500 per kid over the age of six.

This is our situation. We're going to be completely phased out of the credit this year. We've opted out though as our taxes this year are going to be a mess anyways and we don't need the advanced payments.


Also to those complaining people don't understand taxes, don't forget there are many dollars spent lobbying to make taxes complicated hard and opaque for the average person.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2021, 08:09:44 AM »
FYI - normally the tax credit is $2000 per kid.  This year its $3600.  $300x6 =$1800 advance payment on the $3600.  So the advance payments will only reduce your normal tax credit at year end by $200.  Unless, your income changed signicantly from 2020 to 2021 and you no longer qualify, you can stop worrying about how these payments are going to affect how much you owe at tax time.

And yet the math isn't so favorable if you have multiple kids over the age of 6, especially if your AGI in 2021 phases you out of some or all of the expanded credit.

If your (MFJ) AGI was $150k in 2020, you only need $19,001 additional AGI in 2021 to reduce the expanded $3,000 credit back to $2,000.

In that case, if you had your withholdings set to neutral (approx $0 refund or owed), then every penny of the advance tax credit will be owed back when you file your 2021 taxes.  That's $1,500 per kid over the age of 6.

It's surprisingly easy to realize an additional $20k or more of AGI in a year through some combination of raises, bonuses, side hustles, and diverting some pre-tax savings to post-tax (e.g. Roth conversions).

If your AGI is identical in 2020 and 2021 (and doesn't exceed $150k), then each $1,500 you get in advance payments will be partially offset by the additional $1,000 from the expanded credit.  So you'd owe $500 per kid over the age of six.

This is our situation. We're going to be completely phased out of the credit this year. We've opted out though as our taxes this year are going to be a mess anyways and we don't need the advanced payments.


Also to those complaining people don't understand taxes, don't forget there are many dollars spent lobbying to make taxes complicated hard and opaque for the average person.

I would say the root cause of the issue is Congress using taxes to make policy. What to encourage kids, provide a child tax credit. What to encourage biofuel production, offer a deduction. Repeat this a thousand times for various groups, causes, etc. stir it all together with lots of poorly thought out "fixes" and voila, our current tax code.

Lots of accountants and tax attorneys would obviously be out of a job if the tax code was simplified, but they have barely any lobbying power compared to the hundreds and thousands of other groups all trying to get their special carve out.

Runrooster

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Re: Expanded child tax credit: What to do with new monthly payments?
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2021, 04:04:38 PM »
So we'll end up paying ~$4,500 at tax time.   Does this mean I'm supposed to make estimated quarterly tax payments now, all because of an advance credit I didn't ask for?

yes, you should make estimated quarterly tax payments.
Thats a pain if you are not already making estimates.  Just go unenroll, the one check I'm guessing you've gotten so far shouldn't make much difference.

If unenrolling is easy, sure. But making estimated payments usually takes me 5 minutes online, 10 if I can't find my routing number.  Granted, I have to do it for my side hustle (no withholding) so there are other benefits, and I only have to do it for state, but I doubt the IRS makes it any more difficult, do they?

The other point is, if you're jumping through enough hoops to set your refund near 0, this is a pretty trivial one.  Getting your exemptions exactly right must take more effort?  I don't know how to get it perfect, and I do taxes as a side-hustle.  Too many moving parts.

Don't make quarterly payments if it annoys you that much, just pay it all back in the first estimated payment.

eta: changed wording, confusing which payment.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 04:12:16 PM by Runrooster »