Does anybody plan to increase their spending in retirement?

[missj]

I'm all for the challenge of being frugal and scrimping and saving to reach an end goal.

But am I alone in this feeling that once I reach that goal, I want to celebrate and enjoy it?

The most obvious example would be travel and vacation.  Right now I do very little travelling because I work all the damned time, and when we do vacation it's often by car and tent camping.  And I love camping.

But I wonder if my future old body will still love camping this much in 20 years, after I've been doing it for 30+ years?

there's other things too, not just travelling.  Maybe fine dining, spa treatments, taking up an expensive hobby like golf or scuba diving...whatever your heart's desire.

I know it's just a simple calculation that requires you to save more or work longer or both, but I'm wondering if others are like me, or if you're all truly frugal people down to your cores and I'm just a poser?

[former player]

I'm only mustachian to the extent that it comes naturally.  One of my luxuries is the very un-mustachian one of not counting the pennies or having a budget: I was forced into too much of that when young and poor, and it's a pleasure not to have to do it anymore.

Some people naturally have low expenditure.  For others a mustachian low expenditure seems to be a blinding light ("this is how I was always meant to live!) or comes slowly but becomes natural to them, or is just a means to an end.  I like to remember that low expenditure is only a part of mustachianism: spending mindfully and not trashing the planet come into it as well.  Your spending priorities in retirement might not exactly align with MMM's, but that doesn't necessarily make them un-mustachian.  Although I think your post would make a great start for an MMM article: perhaps you might send your query to him?

[happy]

I'm not an inherently life long frugal. But the longer I practice, the more living with less is just a desirable  and satisfying way to live.
If you view your journey to FI as a money diet, when you meet the goal you may well go back to spending more. The more painless way is to learn want less and to be happy without spending a lot of money.

When I read MMM over 2 years ago now, I immediately recognised it integrated a whole lot of half formed ideas. But at first I still wanted to spend an unmustachian quantity. Now I truly want less, and have no plans to spend more in retirement, in fact I think I will spend less.

[matchewed]

Well I think I'd try to disconnect myself from doing something specifically expensive. You can do anything you'd like in FIRE, just not everything. If it just so happens that something you value happens to be expensive then so be it, you budget for it. But do not seek out an expensive hobby just for the sake of it being expensive. As long as you approach the things you value in an economical and efficient manner then you're all good. Anything that you do not value doesn't get the attention of your resources (time, money...etc).

[sandandsun]

We do. We could probably retire now and maintain our current (very frugal) spending level (we save just over 60% of our gross income), but we plan to have a second home in retirement (modest, but at the beach).  We really don't spend much or do expensive things, but we both love the beach and want to live there at least half time once we RE.  I would say for us, the goal of having the place at the beach is at least as big of a motivating factor as retiring early.  We will probably end up working about 4 years longer than we would have to afford the second home, but we are ok with that.  Other than the cost/upkeep of that one purchase, however, I don't see our spending level really changing that much.  We will be in a position where we could increase it significantly if we wanted to, but we just don't have a taste for a more expensive lifestyle... every day at the beach with cold beer and our dogs is the most luxurious life we can imagine :)

[MooseOutFront]

I think we do plan to increase spending in retirement, or at least that's what I have happening in the spreadsheet.  We plan to retire once the 4% SWR can cover our current minimum expenses, but then I want to immediately start in on self employment revenue streams from a few angles.  Pretty much anything we ever make off of those will be spendable, and I have a feeling we'll end up making more in self employment than I'm planning on.  That spending won't be mindless consumption, but there are some more things I would like to be able to do without worrying about money once I'm free from the day job.  Including the option of more expensive and more frequent travel, fully fund kids college, maybe a more expensive home than is currently planned, give more away than current, etc.

[pachnik]

I don't plan to increase my spending in retirement.  I will probably be spending less. 

I track my expenses by writing them down on a sheet of paper - one page per month.  When the month is done, I total my expenses and then yellow highlight the ones that will go down or disappear in retirement i.e. hair cut and colour, bus pass to get to work, work lunches.  Eating out expenses will probably drop a bit too.  I just started tracking expenses a few months ago and am really encouraged that I am living on roughly 65% or so of my income. 

[Ynari]

I make the assumption that anything I do in retirement ends up being 0 net present value.  This makes it easier to plan while allowing me to consider all options.

For instance, my current budget allows for about one large and one small trip per year.  If I want to travel more than that, I would either figure out how to do it for cheap (travel hacking), or monetize something to make it doable (teaching, writing/blogging, or unrelated side gig). 

There are a lot of variables in spending, and I don't think I'll ever have a year where I spend exactly my calculated yearly expenses.  So the best I can do is assume my expenses don't change significantly from what I've predicted, but in reality I'll probably do a lot of rearranging every year depending on circumstance.

[Ottawa]

25% forecasted spending increase!

Our current annual spending is at around $32,000.  Our FIRE date is calculated based on $40,000 in present dollars.  We believe that ($8,000) will cover the costs of a couple overseas flights per year. 

We don't think that there will be a reduction in costs associated with discontinuing work, since we have that dialed down - i.e. never buy out lunch; bike to work; no fancy clothes required. 

[dude]

I'm not necessarily PLANNING on spending more in retirement, but the truth of the matter is, barring any major upheavals and assuming Social Security stays more or less in the same form it is now, it's likely that once I do reach SS age, I'll experience a fairly significant increase in disposable income.  That goes doubly so if we either pay off the mortgage before then, or downsize.  Given that we don't have kids and so aren't looking to leave a legacy to anyone (though we have a few charities in mind that may get whatever residual estate exists after both our deaths), DW and I might as well spend it.  And for sure much of it will be spent on international travel.

[Left]

I'd have to :S my next job will pay for my housing until I ER so I'd have no where to live. I'm hoping to start this next job in a year or so after I get everything settled and ready for me to travel around the country

[soccerluvof4]

For my wife and I we will be spending much less over all since we have 4 kids BUT we will be spending more on ourselves. Right now by our choice we are giving up alot for our kids but thats what we chose to do. The extra funds will feel like a huge pay raise when its just the  2 of us even based on a 4% SWR.

[Gone Fishing]

Planning on a 33% increase primarily for travel/entertainment.  Also allows for economic turmoil, unexpected expenses, and possible changes to the ACA.  If something bad happens we can always go camping!

[Workinghard]

I'm not necessarily PLANNING on spending more in retirement, but the truth of the matter is, barring any major upheavals and assuming Social Security stays more or less in the same form it is now, it's likely that once I do reach SS age, I'll experience a fairly significant increase in disposable income. 

^ this.

[Zikoris]

I imagine we'll be spending quite a bit less since our travel and living expenses will be combined, and we'll be traveling in a more sensible way - slower, cheaper places, different sorts of activities than we do now. Travel is a HUGE expense for us, second only to rent  (which will also be cheaper).

[RootofGood]

I have an early retirement budget where I added in money for fun things like travel, entertainment, and "toys". Nothing crazy, but something more than what I spent in my working years.  We'd like to travel for probably a month or two most years, for example. 

I also expect a high likelihood of being able to spend more as I get older.  I'm spending under 3% of my portfolio right now, so each year my portfolio has a good chance of growing faster than I'm spending it down.  Over time, my portfolio should grow in real terms, thereby enabling me to spend more money. 

Some increase in future spending will come from not being able to DIY as much as I do now.  I just crawled underneath the house and mucked out a sump drain then replaced the sump pump and repaired the flooded hot water heater.  Probably saved $800-1000 for a few hours worth of online research and maybe 3-4 hours of actual work underneath the house.  When the sump pump fails again in another 10 years or so, I'll probably replace it myself again (I'll be 44).  But will I want to do the repair at 54?  Will I still be able to do the repair at 64? 

[RootofGood]

I imagine we'll be spending quite a bit less since our travel and living expenses will be combined, and we'll be traveling in a more sensible way - slower, cheaper places, different sorts of activities than we do now. Travel is a HUGE expense for us, second only to rent  (which will also be cheaper).

We also figured this out.  We can travel for longer and cheaper since we have the time off.  A weekly or monthly apartment rental is often 25-30% the cost of a hotel, for example.  And you only pay for gas or plane tickets to/from a destination once regardless of whether you stay for a weekend or a month.

[Beric01]

I'm just going to have different expenses in FIRE. I'll spend a lot less on living expenses as I plan to leave the US. At the same time, I plan to travel a lot more, though I don't intend to spend a ton of money doing so.

[Nords]

The most obvious example would be travel and vacation.  Right now I do very little travelling because I work all the damned time, and when we do vacation it's often by car and tent camping.  And I love camping.

But I wonder if my future old body will still love camping this much in 20 years, after I've been doing it for 30+ years?

there's other things too, not just travelling.  Maybe fine dining, spa treatments, taking up an expensive hobby like golf or scuba diving...whatever your heart's desire.

I know it's just a simple calculation that requires you to save more or work longer or both, but I'm wondering if others are like me, or if you're all truly frugal people down to your cores and I'm just a poser?

You should align your spending with your values.  If you want to do these things in retirement (and/or while you're working) then make room in your budget for them.  If you really want to do them then you're willing to work for them.  If you're denying yourself the things that you really value, and you're willing to work for them, then you're crossing the line from frugality to deprivation.

We're doing a lot more of the things we want to do in retirement.  They just happen to not cost a lot of money, so our total living expenses have dropped way down.  We could raise our spending, but we haven't found anything (yet) that really makes us want to spend more. 

[Bateaux]

Working is expensive.   You have so much more to maintain just to keep working.  I take more expensive vacations for too short of time just to get back to work.  I plan longer but yet cheaper vacations in the future.  The expenses will be spread over more time.  I can book last minute cruises super cheap.  Last minute condos super cheap.

[steveo]

For my wife and I we will be spending much less over all since we have 4 kids BUT we will be spending more on ourselves. Right now by our choice we are giving up alot for our kids but thats what we chose to do. The extra funds will feel like a huge pay raise when its just the  2 of us even based on a 4% SWR.

I was going to post along the same lines as what has been mentioned here. I have 3 kids and I expect to retire on a 4% SWR but that will mean we have more money to spend on ourselves.

[arebelspy]

I plan on our spending to approximately double, from ~25k now to ~50k in FIRE.

Naturally building up a sustainable portfolio to support the higher spending level means more working years now, but it's worth it for what we want to do and because we enjoy our jobs now.

[Squirrel away]

We are living on a small budget at the moment, after I turn 50 we are planning to be on a slightly increased budget and then from age 55 onwards we will have substantially more to live on per year.

[Jessa]

With the caveat that my best case scenario ER date is in 16 years (and a lot can change in that time), I think I will just spend differently.

I definitely plan to travel more. We've talked about getting an RV, so lots more gas money going into that. Probably eat out more, maybe some spas or housekeeping help. Paying for insurance premiums out of pocket instead of being 85% covered by employer. However, I also figure on having the house paid off by then, so no more mortgage. We're hopefully moving in a few years to a house that is more suited to our needs and will be able to support solar panels, which will reduce electric costs. My plan is that the new higher spending will be offset by reductions or eliminations of current spending.

[SailAway]

I don't know if it will increase, so much as it will shift. Right now our biggest expenses are mortgage and child support. With those gone that money will go to travel.

[MayDay]

I don't think we will travel more.  I hope to spend less on kids and more on myself, as a few others have mentioned. 

I don't know where the line of deprivation is.  But I know that if I could "have it all" I would hire a house cleaner, eat out way more, etc.  Would I delay retirement for that?  Maybe a little.  But more likely I will delay retirement to save more for unexpected costs (I am pretty much expecting staggering health costs) and if those costs don't end up happening, then I can hire a personal chef or a maid when I am 80!

[Public Hermit]

That's a good question. I am thinking yes and no.

I want to increase it enough to the point where I can live comfortably but not to the point where I don't need to keep working an extra 10 years just for the sake of affording a more "lavish" lifestyle.

I am also open to retiring abroad if that means stretching out my nest egg further.

[Roots&Wings]

Yes, I will have to increase spending once retired because of health insurance/medical costs, which is currently 100% employer paid.

[hybrid]

Our entertainment budget will go up in proportion to other expenses associated with working going down.

[MrsPete]

I think I'll spend differently in retirement.  I'm sure that some things will not turn out as expected, but these are my initial thoughts:

- We already live in a paid-for house, but we expect to build a retirement house.  I expect that house will be smaller and more energy efficient than our current house.  Also we plan to build things that will (hopefully) require less maintenance; for example, a metal roof and tilt-in windows.  The upshot:  I expect our housing will cost less in retirement.

- I expect we'll spend less on food on a daily basis because we'll have more time to shop sales and preserve our own foods.  However, we'll probably hold family gatherings, etc. on a more frequent basis; thus, our food expenses will probably stay about the same. 

- Health care is a big question mark, my biggest concern about retirement spending.

- We do intend to spend more on travel once we retire, and looking at my parents and in-laws, I'm not particularly concerned about that becoming a physical impossibility any time soon! 

- I am concerned about inflation.  I mean, I'm thinking about my grandmother, who retired in the 1970s and lived almost 50 more years.  Her expenses certainly increased substantially during those years!  With that in mind, it's very possible that EVERYTHING we buy will cost more. 

- Of course, much of this will be balanced against the fact that we'll no longer be saving for our children's college expenses and our retirement! 

[Lian]

I just don't know yet. My every day expenditures will be less once I stop working, because my transportation, clothing and personal care expenses should go down. I expect to continue to live frugally, primarily because living simply is just a preference by now, and my hobbies require only minimal costs. However, I do want to travel – and for weeks at a time, not just 1 or 2 weeks per trip.  I’m still figuring out what travel expenses will involve – too many variables.  I have to include the cost of critter care, since I can’t take them with me, and that could be expensive and will limit the time I can be on the road. I would like to live outside of the U.S., which could be quite a bit cheaper – but who knows how that will change in the future.  I will probably continue to work a few more years past FI (my current living expenses) to cover travel expenses and maintain a substantial financial buffer that will provide some flexibility to cover for the unknowns (like the big unknown of healthcare).

[b1gm1ke11]

Actual dollar spending will remain about the same, but the allocation is going to change quite a bit.  With the houses paid off before we FIRE, we have a mucher higher % of disposable income.   

[Cassie]

Many expenses naturally go down once you no longer have an outside job but other things go up. If your employer was contributing for your health insurance this usually goes away.  Total we spend less then when we were both working f.t.

[deborah]

I thought I would increase my spending in retirement. However, expenses went way down.

I tracked my expenses for 5 years prior to retiring, and decided that would be my benchmark. Fortunately, I my stache was much larger than I thought I needed. The thing I didn't include was maintenance costs - they were there in the 5 years, but were less than I have had for the past 2 years. Net result is that I am currently spending more in retirement, although that won't be the case for much longer.

[snshijuptr]

Our plan is to work to FI then decide how we want to increase our standard of living until we are happy leaving our jobs and entering ER. I think of these as 2 separate steps in our plan. The fact is we both love our jobs and FI is mostly about security for my husband and I as we have spent the last 10 years of our relationship broke and the last 1-2 years paranoid by lack of money. Like my Great Depression-era grandmother hoarded food, this Great Recession-era young adult hoards cash and investments. I've seen long term unemployment despite education and experience and I want to never worry about that happening to my family.