Do you wash your hands after touching the garbage can?

[Morning Glory]

I know this is an old thread but I literally joined this forum just to reply.  I feel your pain, OP.  I've experienced the exact same thing and it completely disgusts me.  I made it almost 40 years just assuming that not touching trash and then immediately touching yourself or other surfaces or for God's sake your mouth was just common sense, but recently I've moved to a new part of the country and it seems like no one here understands what I thought was basic human knowledge.  It's absolutely disgusting and I'm to the point that I don't trust anyone and everyone I see besides my wife I just assume is a walking source of pathogens.  What happened?  Don't people learn this stuff in school?  Lysol needs to bring back those commercials with the animated germs on everything in the kitchen, remember those?

Welcome to the forum. It seems you're not the first to find it via this thread lol.

[Morning Glory]

Our in-house garbage cans are spotlessly clean as they never get dirty.  They all have plastic liners. We don't throw out anything messy without wrapping it in a recycled plastic produce bag.  The curbside bins are kept clean as well via periodic hosing off.

Do they really never get dirty or does your SO clean them without you realizing?

[charlesb2003]

I don’t wash my hands after touching the outside of a clean garbage can, but I do wash them after touching a necro post.

To me, "clean garbage can" is an oxymoron, like saying "cold fire" or "dry ocean" unless the can is brand new and never been used.  Germs move, and cross contamination is also a thing.

[charlesb2003]

Our in-house garbage cans are spotlessly clean as they never get dirty.  They all have plastic liners. We don't throw out anything messy without wrapping it in a recycled plastic produce bag.  The curbside bins are kept clean as well via periodic hosing off.

That seems like a great strategy to keep your own cans somewhat sanitary, but to the OP's point how would guests know that?  I'm just trying to understand if I'm crazy, or if at some point people either forgot basic sanitation or decided it wasn't important.  When I was a kid, I remember seeing commercials all the time talking about killing germs, and also in school and at home I was taught to wash my hands after handling garbage and using the toilet.  Did they stop teaching that at some point, or am I misremembering?  But if I'm misremembering, then how the heck did I end up knowing this lost knowledge?

[Metalcat]

I don’t wash my hands after touching the outside of a clean garbage can, but I do wash them after touching a necro post.

To me, "clean garbage can" is an oxymoron, like saying "cold fire" or "dry ocean" unless the can is brand new and never been used.  Germs move, and cross contamination is also a thing.

What are you putting in your garbage that's so dirty though??

Do you not compost?

[charlesb2003]

Our in-house garbage cans are spotlessly clean as they never get dirty.  They all have plastic liners. We don't throw out anything messy without wrapping it in a recycled plastic produce bag.  The curbside bins are kept clean as well via periodic hosing off.

Do they really never get dirty or does your SO clean them without you realizing?

Clean and sanitary are two different things.  Something can be visibly clean (free of dirt) and still be crawling with germs.  I think that's what a lot of people seem to either not understand or not care about these days.

[charlesb2003]

I don’t wash my hands after touching the outside of a clean garbage can, but I do wash them after touching a necro post.

To me, "clean garbage can" is an oxymoron, like saying "cold fire" or "dry ocean" unless the can is brand new and never been used.  Germs move, and cross contamination is also a thing.

What are you putting in your garbage that's so dirty though??

Do you not compost?

I don't compost, and I (sadly) don't have a garbage disposal in my sink, so pretty much whatever.  We don't waste a lot of food, but there's enough in there to get some decomposition going.  Salmonella, e.coli, etc would be my biggest concern.  But having said that, maybe there's not anything dangerous about it, just feels nasty to me.  Trying to understand why it doesn't to some people, that's all.  Also I don't mean to sound judgmental, just very shocked in a way.

[Metalcat]

I don’t wash my hands after touching the outside of a clean garbage can, but I do wash them after touching a necro post.

To me, "clean garbage can" is an oxymoron, like saying "cold fire" or "dry ocean" unless the can is brand new and never been used.  Germs move, and cross contamination is also a thing.

What are you putting in your garbage that's so dirty though??

Do you not compost?

I don't compost, and I (sadly) don't have a garbage disposal in my sink, so pretty much whatever.  We don't waste a lot of food, but there's enough in there to get some decomposition going.  Salmonella, e.coli, etc would be my biggest concern.  But having said that, maybe there's not anything dangerous about it, just feels nasty to me.  Trying to understand why it doesn't to some people, that's all.  Also I don't mean to sound judgmental, just very shocked in a way.

It's just not that hard to not get stuff on the outside of the garbage bin, IMO.

I compost, so the only food waste that even goes into my kitchen garbage is the occasional Styrofoam meat packaging, and that gets folded carefully and then tucked into the bin. The outside of the bin never comes into contact with anything dirty.

The average doorknob, kitchen sink, and cell phone is dirtier than the handle on the lid of my garbage bin, which is the only part I touch.

I've been a chef, managed a research animal facility, been a healthcare professional, and have written several infection control policies and I feel fine touching the outside of my garbage bin without washing my hands.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I mean who knows, maybe I'm the crazy one, but most of my garbage cans are clean and have liners, so all that gets dirty is the liner and not the can.  My kitchen trash can has a foot pedal and is stainless steel, so it gets cleaned if there are ever any marks on it, but it's not visibly dirty.  None of our trash is all the gross at the end of the day.  Other than cleaning my hands after I remove the trash liners to take them out to the bins, and after I handle our outside bins (which also aren't that dirty, but they are outside which is infinitely dirtier than our inside bins), I don't see the need to wash my hands even more than I already do.

So much for making a 'throwaway' joke on this thread (ba-dum tish, I'm here all night...).

[jrhampt]

No, why would I?  Unless you’re throwing out human waste or something.  My trash can also has a foot pedal and has for years, but I’m pretty sure even if it didn’t I wouldn’t give it a second thought.

[GilesMM]

The house I grew up in had a device called a "trash compactor" under the kitchen counter.  It rolled open with a foot pedal so that was hygienic at least.  Our family would drop just about anything in there even scraping wet messes off dinner plates into the bin. When it was full, we would twist a key and a 1x2 foot ram would mash it, top down, into an oozing mess not dissimilar to what our hapless heroes and heroine found themselves in in "Star Wars". This device and method allowed us to not only make a colossal casserole out of all the food but also keep the "thing" growing for weeks or months at a time before it was full to the point of no longer being "mashable" and someone would lug it to the can in the garage.   The mess on the bottom side of the mashing press was beyond disgusting.  But it was in the name of Progress and Kitchen Convenience!

[Metalcat]

The house I grew up in had a device called a "trash compactor" under the kitchen counter.  It rolled open with a foot pedal so that was hygienic at least.  Our family would drop just about anything in there even scraping wet messes off dinner plates into the bin. When it was full, we would twist a key and a 1x2 foot ram would mash it, top down, into an oozing mess not dissimilar to what our hapless heroes and heroine found themselves in in "Star Wars". This device and method allowed us to not only make a colossal casserole out of all the food but also keep the "thing" growing for weeks or months at a time before it was full to the point of no longer being "mashable" and someone would lug it to the can in the garage.   The mess on the bottom side of the mashing press was beyond disgusting.  But it was in the name of Progress and Kitchen Convenience!

Horrifying...

[charlesb2003]

I don’t wash my hands after touching the outside of a clean garbage can, but I do wash them after touching a necro post.

To me, "clean garbage can" is an oxymoron, like saying "cold fire" or "dry ocean" unless the can is brand new and never been used.  Germs move, and cross contamination is also a thing.

What are you putting in your garbage that's so dirty though??

Do you not compost?

I don't compost, and I (sadly) don't have a garbage disposal in my sink, so pretty much whatever.  We don't waste a lot of food, but there's enough in there to get some decomposition going.  Salmonella, e.coli, etc would be my biggest concern.  But having said that, maybe there's not anything dangerous about it, just feels nasty to me.  Trying to understand why it doesn't to some people, that's all.  Also I don't mean to sound judgmental, just very shocked in a way.

It's just not that hard to not get stuff on the outside of the garbage bin, IMO.

I compost, so the only food waste that even goes into my kitchen garbage is the occasional Styrofoam meat packaging, and that gets folded carefully and then tucked into the bin. The outside of the bin never comes into contact with anything dirty.

The average doorknob, kitchen sink, and cell phone is dirtier than the handle on the lid of my garbage bin, which is the only part I touch.

I've been a chef, managed a research animal facility, been a healthcare professional, and have written several infection control policies and I feel fine touching the outside of my garbage bin without washing my hands.

I've got no doubts that your garbage bin isn't spotless, aka visually clean.  And from what you've said I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's also sanitary (considering your resume I'm assuming you understand the difference) but my question is this: if you went to someone else's house, or if you had to touch a garbage bin in public, would you wash/sanitize your hands then?

The visible dirt isn't my concern, it's the invisible germs that we're fighting here.  Also, considering your resume, can you answer a legitimate question I've had for a while now?  Germs are living creatures, can't they move?  If so, how far can they travel over a given amount of time?  Not knowing the answer to this question has caused me to treat not only my garbage bins and toilets, but the general vicinity around them, as a biohazardous area.  I routinely spray these areas down with Lysol, but rarely if ever touch them, so my bins are the opposite of yours.  Visually dirty, but sanitized.

[Metalcat]

I don’t wash my hands after touching the outside of a clean garbage can, but I do wash them after touching a necro post.

To me, "clean garbage can" is an oxymoron, like saying "cold fire" or "dry ocean" unless the can is brand new and never been used.  Germs move, and cross contamination is also a thing.

What are you putting in your garbage that's so dirty though??

Do you not compost?

I don't compost, and I (sadly) don't have a garbage disposal in my sink, so pretty much whatever.  We don't waste a lot of food, but there's enough in there to get some decomposition going.  Salmonella, e.coli, etc would be my biggest concern.  But having said that, maybe there's not anything dangerous about it, just feels nasty to me.  Trying to understand why it doesn't to some people, that's all.  Also I don't mean to sound judgmental, just very shocked in a way.

It's just not that hard to not get stuff on the outside of the garbage bin, IMO.

I compost, so the only food waste that even goes into my kitchen garbage is the occasional Styrofoam meat packaging, and that gets folded carefully and then tucked into the bin. The outside of the bin never comes into contact with anything dirty.

The average doorknob, kitchen sink, and cell phone is dirtier than the handle on the lid of my garbage bin, which is the only part I touch.

I've been a chef, managed a research animal facility, been a healthcare professional, and have written several infection control policies and I feel fine touching the outside of my garbage bin without washing my hands.

I've got no doubts that your garbage bin isn't spotless, aka visually clean.  And from what you've said I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's also sanitary (considering your resume I'm assuming you understand the difference) but my question is this: if you went to someone else's house, or if you had to touch a garbage bin in public, would you wash/sanitize your hands then?

The visible dirt isn't my concern, it's the invisible germs that we're fighting here.  Also, considering your resume, can you answer a legitimate question I've had for a while now?  Germs are living creatures, can't they move?  If so, how far can they travel over a given amount of time?  Not knowing the answer to this question has caused me to treat not only my garbage bins and toilets, but the general vicinity around them, as a biohazardous area.  I routinely spray these areas down with Lysol, but rarely if ever touch them, so my bins are the opposite of yours.  Visually dirty, but sanitized.

Yes, I'm extremely aware that pathogens are invisible, but they can't actually travel very far, so unless they come into contact with the outside of the clean bin, they're not going to crawl out of the inside of the bin liner and then make their way to the outside of the can.

As for whether I would touch a stranger's bin on the outside, it would depend on what their kitchen habits are like. If they have a good understanding of cross contamination and infection control measures like I do, which almost every person I'm friends with does, I wouldn't worry about it.

As I've said multiple times in this thread, people's sinks are generally much, much more germy than the outside of their garbage bins. So unless you wash your hands every time you touch a sink, a doorknob, or someone else's phone, then worrying about the outside of a visibly clean bin is a bit silly.

Now, it I saw someone handle raw meat and without washing watched them lift the lid of their garbage with their contaminated hand, then yeah, I would both avoid touching their garbage AND thoroughly wash my hands if I had to.

But I'm at a much bigger risk of exposure from eating their cooking than from touching their garbage. So again, if you are willing to eat what someone else cooks, then you're putting faith in their infection control knowledge anyway.

FTR, here are the top culprits for contamination in kitchens and garbage bins I don't think even make the list, so you might want to either mellow out a bit about garbage bins or get way more paranoid about kitchens.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/where-germs-lurk-in-your-kitchen

[charlesb2003]

I don’t wash my hands after touching the outside of a clean garbage can, but I do wash them after touching a necro post.

To me, "clean garbage can" is an oxymoron, like saying "cold fire" or "dry ocean" unless the can is brand new and never been used.  Germs move, and cross contamination is also a thing.

What are you putting in your garbage that's so dirty though??

Do you not compost?

I don't compost, and I (sadly) don't have a garbage disposal in my sink, so pretty much whatever.  We don't waste a lot of food, but there's enough in there to get some decomposition going.  Salmonella, e.coli, etc would be my biggest concern.  But having said that, maybe there's not anything dangerous about it, just feels nasty to me.  Trying to understand why it doesn't to some people, that's all.  Also I don't mean to sound judgmental, just very shocked in a way.

It's just not that hard to not get stuff on the outside of the garbage bin, IMO.

I compost, so the only food waste that even goes into my kitchen garbage is the occasional Styrofoam meat packaging, and that gets folded carefully and then tucked into the bin. The outside of the bin never comes into contact with anything dirty.

The average doorknob, kitchen sink, and cell phone is dirtier than the handle on the lid of my garbage bin, which is the only part I touch.

I've been a chef, managed a research animal facility, been a healthcare professional, and have written several infection control policies and I feel fine touching the outside of my garbage bin without washing my hands.

I've got no doubts that your garbage bin isn't spotless, aka visually clean.  And from what you've said I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's also sanitary (considering your resume I'm assuming you understand the difference) but my question is this: if you went to someone else's house, or if you had to touch a garbage bin in public, would you wash/sanitize your hands then?

The visible dirt isn't my concern, it's the invisible germs that we're fighting here.  Also, considering your resume, can you answer a legitimate question I've had for a while now?  Germs are living creatures, can't they move?  If so, how far can they travel over a given amount of time?  Not knowing the answer to this question has caused me to treat not only my garbage bins and toilets, but the general vicinity around them, as a biohazardous area.  I routinely spray these areas down with Lysol, but rarely if ever touch them, so my bins are the opposite of yours.  Visually dirty, but sanitized.

Yes, I'm extremely aware that pathogens are invisible, but they can't actually travel very far, so unless they come into contact with the outside of the clean bin, they're not going to crawl out of the inside of the bin liner and then make their way to the outside of the can.

As for whether I would touch a stranger's bin on the outside, it would depend on what their kitchen habits are like. If they have a good understanding of cross contamination and infection control measures like I do, which almost every person I'm friends with does, I wouldn't worry about it.

As I've said multiple times in this thread, people's sinks are generally much, much more germy than the outside of their garbage bins. So unless you wash your hands every time you touch a sink, a doorknob, or someone else's phone, then worrying about the outside of a visibly clean bin is a bit silly.

Now, it I saw someone handle raw meat and without washing watched them lift the lid of their garbage with their contaminated hand, then yeah, I would both avoid touching their garbage AND thoroughly wash my hands if I had to.

But I'm at a much bigger risk of exposure from eating their cooking than from touching their garbage. So again, if you are willing to eat what someone else cooks, then you're putting faith in their infection control knowledge anyway.

FTR, here are the top culprits for contamination in kitchens and garbage bins I don't think even make the list, so you might want to either mellow out a bit about garbage bins or get way more paranoid about kitchens.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/where-germs-lurk-in-your-kitchen

Thanks for that information about germs not being able to crawl out of the trash can, that's kept me up nights before so I appreciate that.  One less thing to worry about!

In addition to our trash bins, we routinely Lysol our faucets, doorknobs, refrigerator handles, really every handle, and we wash our dishes and utensils in our dishwasher using the sanitize option.  We also wash our hands often with antibacterial soap (of course, if it doesn't kill germs can you even call it soap?) and use hand sanitizer often between washes.  We don't use tablets and I Lysol or hand sanitize my phone often.

The only things on that list that I'm concerned about are towels and fruits/veg.  My wife has some kitchen towels hanging on the oven handle.  They're mainly for decoration but I've seen her dry her hands on them before.  I don't, I almost always use a fresh paper towel.  I'll have to talk to her about that.

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

[GuitarStv]

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to try to ultra-sanitize everything in your life*.

Your skin is covered with millions of bacteria and fungus all the time.  Your gut health is heavily dependent upon the bacteria that have colonized it.  While it's not a great idea to try to get infected with pathogens, your body isn't an island unto itself and it depends on bacteria and germs.  With fruits and vegetables, rinsing with water and scrubbing visible dirt is likely sufficient*.





*Unless of course you have some sort of immune weakness/deficiency.

[charlesb2003]

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to try to ultra-sanitize everything in your life*.

Your skin is covered with millions of bacteria and fungus all the time.  Your gut health is heavily dependent upon the bacteria that have colonized it.  While it's not a great idea to try to get infected with pathogens, your body isn't an island unto itself and it depends on bacteria and germs.  With fruits and vegetables, rinsing with water and scrubbing visible dirt is likely sufficient*.





*Unless of course you have some sort of immune weakness/deficiency.

Appreciate the advice, but I feel better staying as sanitary as I possibly can.  I know there are millions of micro-organisms on me all the time, and that honestly makes my skin crawl so I try to keep that number as low as possible.  Gut microbiome is different, I know those little guys are important so I take supplements to help with that.

[Metalcat]

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to try to ultra-sanitize everything in your life*.

Your skin is covered with millions of bacteria and fungus all the time.  Your gut health is heavily dependent upon the bacteria that have colonized it.  While it's not a great idea to try to get infected with pathogens, your body isn't an island unto itself and it depends on bacteria and germs.  With fruits and vegetables, rinsing with water and scrubbing visible dirt is likely sufficient*.





*Unless of course you have some sort of immune weakness/deficiency.

Same here. I am not ultra anal about germs and don't try to sanitize myself religiously. I use basic best practices.

And that's as someone who is chronically immunocompromised thanks to meds. Meanwhile, since I started working from home, I've only been sick once because of a flight I took. Otherwise, I used to get sick 6 times a year and now I rarely get sick, and I wash/sanitize my hands much, much less than I used to when I worked in a clinic.

[Metalcat]

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to try to ultra-sanitize everything in your life*.

Your skin is covered with millions of bacteria and fungus all the time.  Your gut health is heavily dependent upon the bacteria that have colonized it.  While it's not a great idea to try to get infected with pathogens, your body isn't an island unto itself and it depends on bacteria and germs.  With fruits and vegetables, rinsing with water and scrubbing visible dirt is likely sufficient*.





*Unless of course you have some sort of immune weakness/deficiency.

Appreciate the advice, but I feel better staying as sanitary as I possibly can.  I know there are millions of micro-organisms on me all the time, and that honestly makes my skin crawl so I try to keep that number as low as possible.  Gut microbiome is different, I know those little guys are important so I take supplements to help with that.

This and the fact that the idea of pathogens climbing out of your garbage has literally made you lose sleep makes me think you might benefit from some therapy on this topic.

[GuitarStv]

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to try to ultra-sanitize everything in your life*.

Your skin is covered with millions of bacteria and fungus all the time.  Your gut health is heavily dependent upon the bacteria that have colonized it.  While it's not a great idea to try to get infected with pathogens, your body isn't an island unto itself and it depends on bacteria and germs.  With fruits and vegetables, rinsing with water and scrubbing visible dirt is likely sufficient*.





*Unless of course you have some sort of immune weakness/deficiency.

Same here. I am not ultra anal about germs and don't try to sanitize myself religiously. I use basic best practices.

And that's as someone who is chronically immunocompromised thanks to meds. Meanwhile, since I started working from home, I've only been sick once because of a flight I took. Otherwise, I used to get sick 6 times a year and now I rarely get sick, and I wash/sanitize my hands much, much less than I used to when I worked in a clinic.

I'm in the gym doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu five nights a week.  It's a rare night that I don't have someone else's sweat drop into my mouth and eyeballs.  Hard to imagine a less hygienic sport  . . . and honestly, I don't tend to get colds more often than when I was solo cycling all the time.  This has made me really question how much benefit someone really gets from over the top cleaning of stuff.

[Metalcat]

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to try to ultra-sanitize everything in your life*.

Your skin is covered with millions of bacteria and fungus all the time.  Your gut health is heavily dependent upon the bacteria that have colonized it.  While it's not a great idea to try to get infected with pathogens, your body isn't an island unto itself and it depends on bacteria and germs.  With fruits and vegetables, rinsing with water and scrubbing visible dirt is likely sufficient*.





*Unless of course you have some sort of immune weakness/deficiency.

Same here. I am not ultra anal about germs and don't try to sanitize myself religiously. I use basic best practices.

And that's as someone who is chronically immunocompromised thanks to meds. Meanwhile, since I started working from home, I've only been sick once because of a flight I took. Otherwise, I used to get sick 6 times a year and now I rarely get sick, and I wash/sanitize my hands much, much less than I used to when I worked in a clinic.

I'm in the gym doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu five nights a week.  It's a rare night that I don't have someone else's sweat drop into my mouth and eyeballs.  Hard to imagine a less hygienic sport  . . . and honestly, I don't tend to get colds more often than when I was solo cycling all the time.  This has made me really question how much benefit someone really gets from over the top cleaning of stuff.

Selection bias though, people who are feeling sick don't typically show up for combat sports. Also, I don't know if your gym does this, but my ex did mariak arts and people typically showed up to classes freshly showered before manhandling each other.

And someone who doesn't typically get sick nor getting sick isn't really evidence of much. I shared about my illness rate because I very easily get sick. So something that lowers my rate of infections is a notable thing. To go from 6+ repository infections consistently a year to 1 or none just from remote work while significantly reducing hand washing and infection control measures is pretty wild.

Hygiene does help control spread of infection, there's no question, but most people have a really, really poor understanding of infection control and food safety, so it's a bit moot.

For most folks though, just washing your hands multiple times a day and understanding the basics of food safety is a pretty good standard.

[Telecaster]

The visible dirt isn't my concern, it's the invisible germs that we're fighting here.  Also, considering your resume, can you answer a legitimate question I've had for a while now?  Germs are living creatures, can't they move?  If so, how far can they travel over a given amount of time?  Not knowing the answer to this question has caused me to treat not only my garbage bins and toilets, but the general vicinity around them, as a biohazardous area.  I routinely spray these areas down with Lysol, but rarely if ever touch them, so my bins are the opposite of yours.  Visually dirty, but sanitized.

I won't bore anyone with my background too much, but I've worked in both biological and radiological labs, and also hazardous materials sampling in the field, so I know a bit about professional level hygiene, sanitary, and decon practices.  Including doing confirmation sampling to test hygiene and decon practices.  I know what works and what the points of failure are.

You are wrong.  Visually dirty is dirty.   Your garbage cans are definitely not sanitized.   Germs, that is bacteria, yeast, and viruses but mostly bacteria, are everywhere around us at all times.  They travel via air, water, and by surface contact.  Sure, when you spray that dirty garbage can with Lysol you may kill most of the bacteria on the surface of that gunk.  But as soon as it evaporates that gunk becomes a bacteria farm. 

Because bacteria are everywhere, it is nearly impossible to have sanitized conditions, even using best practices in the lab.  At home or in the field, sanitary is best you can hope for.  I guarantee that if I could observe for you three minutes working in your kitchen I could identify 10 times you cross contaminated something.   

The good news is that we don't need sanitized conditions at home.  Sanitary is good enough and it is easy to get to sanitary by using simple best practices.   First rule is that is that if it looks dirty, it is dirty.  Second, wash your hands with soap and water before and after you do anything in the kitchen.   Wash all your utensils and cutting boards with soap after you use them, and rinse.   If the kitchen towel is dry and looks clean, it is fine to use on your hands and anything else. 

Anti-bacterial soap does two things better than regular soap:  Jack and shit.   Regular soap works by physically removing dirt.  The dirt is where the bacteria is.   Remember, if it looks dirty, it is dirty.   There is a mountain of evidence that shows anti-bacterial soap is no better at removing bacteria than regular soap.   Even in bio labs we didn't use anti-bacterial soap.   It is a marketing scam. 

And think about it for a second.  If fruits and vegetables needed to be washed with anti-bacterial soap prior to eating, we'd all be dead.  Our ancestors wouldn't have made it down from the trees.   Fruits and vegetables need to be washed to remove dirt and pesticides.   They have their own anti-bacterial properties and as long as they look good and smell good, they are fine to eat.   You nose has evolved over millions of year for this exact reason.   Why not use it?

Definitely wash your visually dirty garbage cans though.  That's gross.   

[jahanzaib456]

Absolutely — always. Garbage cans can carry a lot of germs and bacteria, so I make it a habit to wash my hands right after touching them. It's a simple way to stay clean and avoid spreading anything, especially before eating or cooking.

[charlesb2003]

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to try to ultra-sanitize everything in your life*.

Your skin is covered with millions of bacteria and fungus all the time.  Your gut health is heavily dependent upon the bacteria that have colonized it.  While it's not a great idea to try to get infected with pathogens, your body isn't an island unto itself and it depends on bacteria and germs.  With fruits and vegetables, rinsing with water and scrubbing visible dirt is likely sufficient*.





*Unless of course you have some sort of immune weakness/deficiency.

Appreciate the advice, but I feel better staying as sanitary as I possibly can.  I know there are millions of micro-organisms on me all the time, and that honestly makes my skin crawl so I try to keep that number as low as possible.  Gut microbiome is different, I know those little guys are important so I take supplements to help with that.

This and the fact that the idea of pathogens climbing out of your garbage has literally made you lose sleep makes me think you might benefit from some therapy on this topic.

Appreciate your concern but I may have exaggerated about actually losing sleep.  I would probably lose sleep if I wasn't able to sanitize myself tho, but I don't trust shrinks so I'm talking to you fine folks instead!  Thanks for all your replies, this is helpful.  Still gonna keep washing my hands after touching trash cans tho.

[charlesb2003]

The visible dirt isn't my concern, it's the invisible germs that we're fighting here.  Also, considering your resume, can you answer a legitimate question I've had for a while now?  Germs are living creatures, can't they move?  If so, how far can they travel over a given amount of time?  Not knowing the answer to this question has caused me to treat not only my garbage bins and toilets, but the general vicinity around them, as a biohazardous area.  I routinely spray these areas down with Lysol, but rarely if ever touch them, so my bins are the opposite of yours.  Visually dirty, but sanitized.

I won't bore anyone with my background too much, but I've worked in both biological and radiological labs, and also hazardous materials sampling in the field, so I know a bit about professional level hygiene, sanitary, and decon practices.  Including doing confirmation sampling to test hygiene and decon practices.  I know what works and what the points of failure are.

You are wrong.  Visually dirty is dirty.   Your garbage cans are definitely not sanitized.   Germs, that is bacteria, yeast, and viruses but mostly bacteria, are everywhere around us at all times.  They travel via air, water, and by surface contact.  Sure, when you spray that dirty garbage can with Lysol you may kill most of the bacteria on the surface of that gunk.  But as soon as it evaporates that gunk becomes a bacteria farm. 

Because bacteria are everywhere, it is nearly impossible to have sanitized conditions, even using best practices in the lab.  At home or in the field, sanitary is best you can hope for.  I guarantee that if I could observe for you three minutes working in your kitchen I could identify 10 times you cross contaminated something.   

The good news is that we don't need sanitized conditions at home.  Sanitary is good enough and it is easy to get to sanitary by using simple best practices.   First rule is that is that if it looks dirty, it is dirty.  Second, wash your hands with soap and water before and after you do anything in the kitchen.   Wash all your utensils and cutting boards with soap after you use them, and rinse.   If the kitchen towel is dry and looks clean, it is fine to use on your hands and anything else. 

Anti-bacterial soap does two things better than regular soap:  Jack and shit.   Regular soap works by physically removing dirt.  The dirt is where the bacteria is.   Remember, if it looks dirty, it is dirty.   There is a mountain of evidence that shows anti-bacterial soap is no better at removing bacteria than regular soap.   Even in bio labs we didn't use anti-bacterial soap.   It is a marketing scam. 

And think about it for a second.  If fruits and vegetables needed to be washed with anti-bacterial soap prior to eating, we'd all be dead.  Our ancestors wouldn't have made it down from the trees.   Fruits and vegetables need to be washed to remove dirt and pesticides.   They have their own anti-bacterial properties and as long as they look good and smell good, they are fine to eat.   You nose has evolved over millions of year for this exact reason.   Why not use it?

Definitely wash your visually dirty garbage cans though.  That's gross.

I'm REALLY festidious about cross contamination, so I would accept your challenge.  Regarding my dirty bins, there's not chunks or drips on them, more like streaks and water spots from all the Lysol that I spray on them.  There is a bit of dirt on the floor around them because I don't normally sweep right up against the can because I don't want to contaminate the broom, but knowing that the germs can't get out of the can I might start doing that now.  Hell, I might even wipe the thing down with some stainless steel cleaner!

Regarding antibacterial soap, I've read some of those studies but I also am a bit of a tinfoil hat wearer so I have to wonder what is their motivation for wanting to prove that antibacterial soap doesn't help.  Could it be that we are more profitable to big pharma if we're always just a little sick rather than fully healthy?  I very rarely get sick btw, for what it's worth.

Also I remember when I was growing up just about ALL soap was antibacterial, both liquid hand soap and bar soap (this would have been in the 90's) and now it's like you gotta look for it.  With bar soap specifically, I pretty clearly remember there being face soap (like Dove) that wasn't antibacterial, but pretty much all the bar soap meant for your body was antibacterial.  Does anyone else remember that?

Now Dial's the only one I can find in stores, and there are a couple foreign brands available on Amazon.  I like Dettol the best, that's what I've been using ever since they raised the price of Asepso.  Even if it's not doing anything, it makes me feel better and that's worth it just for peace of mind.

[charlesb2003]

Absolutely — always. Garbage cans can carry a lot of germs and bacteria, so I make it a habit to wash my hands right after touching them. It's a simple way to stay clean and avoid spreading anything, especially before eating or cooking.

My people!  Question for you, do you notice people where you live generally share your standards of hygiene, or are you one of the only people you know who do this?  I'm trying to figure out if this is a regional thing, or maybe just a "times have changed" kinda thing.  I moved here (Florida) a little over 4 years ago and I'm like the only person who seems to be aware of germs here.  Where I left from (Texas) it seemed like people were a bit cleaner and more germ conscious, but also that was 4 years ago. 

[dragoncar]

Wow, blast from the past.  Since I last responded to this thread, I did spend an unmustachian amount of money on a garbage opener device so I can press my garbage gently with my knee while I have my hands full of raw meat trimmings, then I use my automatic soap dispenser and automatic faucet to wash my hands.  So at least the garbage handle, soap dispenser, and faucet handle aren't slimy with salmonella.

Unfortunately, I still have to clean the aforementioned items because they get visibly dirty.  How, you ask?  VISITORS.  UNSANITARY VISITORS

[San Diego Girl]

I always wash my hands after touching the garbage bin.

This may seem excessive to some, but since we are talking about cleanliness and hygiene I also dislike using public restrooms and try to avoid them.  Of course, I have to use them sometimes and when I get home I shower and put on clean clothes.

[JupiterGreen]

I don't know if this thread is a joke, but it has been very entertaining, I did not see it the first time round. To answer the question, no I don't wash my hands after throwing something in the trash. But my trashcan has a foot pedal so I don't touch it. But if I did touch it I probably would wash my hands, but I also wouldn't get a trash can that I had to touch to open (all of mine have pedals). I keep things clean and am an avid hand washer but not obsessively so. But I've hung out with a lot of hygiene "questionables". These are people you can actively smell, dumpster dive, and who eat things off the floor. I don't know how they can do any of that, but to each their own. They are great to camp with as the BO is far less offensive, but I prefer not to be in enclosed spaces with them and I wouldn't want them to cook me dinner.

[GilesMM]

I always wash my hands after touching the garbage bin.

This may seem excessive to some, but since we are talking about cleanliness and hygiene I also dislike using public restrooms and try to avoid them.  Of course, I have to use them sometimes and when I get home I shower and put on clean clothes.

I've been at a number of events lately, including yesterday, where I had to use a portapotty. Revolting in every possible way but particularly sight and smell.  And often no handwashing option.  Utter horror.

[Metalcat]

Regarding fruits and vegetables, do you know any good ways to sanitize them before eating?  Is antibacterial hand soap safe to use for this?

I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to try to ultra-sanitize everything in your life*.

Your skin is covered with millions of bacteria and fungus all the time.  Your gut health is heavily dependent upon the bacteria that have colonized it.  While it's not a great idea to try to get infected with pathogens, your body isn't an island unto itself and it depends on bacteria and germs.  With fruits and vegetables, rinsing with water and scrubbing visible dirt is likely sufficient*.





*Unless of course you have some sort of immune weakness/deficiency.

Appreciate the advice, but I feel better staying as sanitary as I possibly can.  I know there are millions of micro-organisms on me all the time, and that honestly makes my skin crawl so I try to keep that number as low as possible.  Gut microbiome is different, I know those little guys are important so I take supplements to help with that.

This and the fact that the idea of pathogens climbing out of your garbage has literally made you lose sleep makes me think you might benefit from some therapy on this topic.

Appreciate your concern but I may have exaggerated about actually losing sleep.  I would probably lose sleep if I wasn't able to sanitize myself tho, but I don't trust shrinks so I'm talking to you fine folks instead!  Thanks for all your replies, this is helpful.  Still gonna keep washing my hands after touching trash cans tho.

Me, literally a therapist...so yeah...

[GuitarStv]

Anti-bacterial soap does two things better than regular soap:  Jack and shit.   Regular soap works by physically removing dirt.  The dirt is where the bacteria is.   Remember, if it looks dirty, it is dirty.   There is a mountain of evidence that shows anti-bacterial soap is no better at removing bacteria than regular soap.   Even in bio labs we didn't use anti-bacterial soap.   It is a marketing scam.

I'd argue anti-bacterial soap is worse than a marketing scam.  It is a straight up inferior product to regular soap.

Earlier I mentioned that I do BJJ - effectively hot, sweaty wrestling with lots of skin to skin contact.  Skin problems (ringworm, impetigo, staph, etc.) are common in wrestling, so hygiene before/after practice is important.  Most of it is just basic crap - you don't step from an area where outdoor shoes are used and onto the mats.  You always shower immediately after practice.  You always wash anything that was used in practice immediately after practice and never use stuff twice.  But at some point in the past I had decided that since skin infections were a problem I should start using anti-bacterial soap every time I showered off - little germs being the issue, right?

During the six month period that I was using anti-bacterial soap I had regular and repeated skin infections.  Your skin wants/needs bacteria growing on it all the time.  It's a whole eco-system going on there that actually protects you.  Anti-bacterial soap seems to strip this ecosystem away and damage your skin somehow, leaving you at higher risk of colonization/infection by the bad stuff.  I went back to using regular soap and occasionally moisturizing my skin and the skin infections largely went away.

[San Diego Girl]

I always wash my hands after touching the garbage bin.

This may seem excessive to some, but since we are talking about cleanliness and hygiene I also dislike using public restrooms and try to avoid them.  Of course, I have to use them sometimes and when I get home I shower and put on clean clothes.

I've been at a number of events lately, including yesterday, where I had to use a portapotty. Revolting in every possible way but particularly sight and smell.  And often no handwashing option.  Utter horror.

Ew, but ya to exist and participate in life we sometimes have to adapt and go with the flow and breathe through it, at least that's what I do.

I have a heightened sense of smell, for better or worse, which is probably where all of these issues arose for me.  In my family, it is a running joke that I can smell the Christmas tree, cooking, rotten food, smoke, you name it, from a mile away. :)

[Metalcat]

I always wash my hands after touching the garbage bin.

This may seem excessive to some, but since we are talking about cleanliness and hygiene I also dislike using public restrooms and try to avoid them.  Of course, I have to use them sometimes and when I get home I shower and put on clean clothes.

I've been at a number of events lately, including yesterday, where I had to use a portapotty. Revolting in every possible way but particularly sight and smell.  And often no handwashing option.  Utter horror.

Ew, but ya to exist and participate in life we sometimes have to adapt and go with the flow and breathe through it, at least that's what I do.

I have a heightened sense of smell, for better or worse, which is probably where all of these issues arose for me.  In my family, it is a running joke that I can smell the Christmas tree, cooking, rotten food, smoke, you name it, from a mile away. :)

I used to have this until I got covid from taking a flight. Now I have a more normal sense of smell and it's glorious.

I was once in my clinic about 200 feet from the entrance and in the middle of writing my notes I looked at my assistant and said "an old man just walked in" because I could distinctly detect that old man smell.

[aloevera1]

Why are ya all touching your garbage cans? Is that... hmmm a thing???

I very rarely touch my garbage can outside of tying the bag before throwing the garbage out... I will wash my hands after that. This is a habit. I do the same after I tie the bag from the garbage can in the washroom (for OBVIOUS reasons).

[Morning Glory]

What I don't get are the garbage cans that never get dirty. Does nothing ever leak? Do they not hold onto smells sometimes even when they look clean? Are these the same people with magic laundry baskets?

[Metalcat]

Why are ya all touching your garbage cans? Is that... hmmm a thing???

I very rarely touch my garbage can outside of tying the bag before throwing the garbage out... I will wash my hands after that. This is a habit. I do the same after I tie the bag from the garbage can in the washroom (for OBVIOUS reasons).

I have a very small bin in my kitchen with a lid that I have to lift off, but my recycling has foot pedals.

[Metalcat]

What I don't get are the garbage cans that never get dirty. Does nothing ever leak? Do they not hold onto smells sometimes even when they look clean? Are these the same people with magic laundry baskets?

I compost, so there's rarely anything gross in my garbage.

I have started cooking meat for the first time in almost a decade, so I do now have raw meat food packaging sometimes in the kitchen garbage, but I take it out immediately because I have a garbage chute.

Nothing gross stays in my home.

[San Diego Girl]

I always wash my hands after touching the garbage bin.

This may seem excessive to some, but since we are talking about cleanliness and hygiene I also dislike using public restrooms and try to avoid them.  Of course, I have to use them sometimes and when I get home I shower and put on clean clothes.

I've been at a number of events lately, including yesterday, where I had to use a portapotty. Revolting in every possible way but particularly sight and smell.  And often no handwashing option.  Utter horror.

Ew, but ya to exist and participate in life we sometimes have to adapt and go with the flow and breathe through it, at least that's what I do.

I have a heightened sense of smell, for better or worse, which is probably where all of these issues arose for me.  In my family, it is a running joke that I can smell the Christmas tree, cooking, rotten food, smoke, you name it, from a mile away. :)

I used to have this until I got covid from taking a flight. Now I have a more normal sense of smell and it's glorious.

I was once in my clinic about 200 feet from the entrance and in the middle of writing my notes I looked at my assistant and said "an old man just walked in" because I could distinctly detect that old man smell.

Yes!! That's me! In working with teens I sometimes have to shallow breathe and actively fight my gag response due to unwashed hair, bodies, clothes, backpacks smelling of smoke and cat urine, etc. 

Lucky you that your sense of smell normalized.  My long term take away from Covid has been brain fog. :)

[RetiredAt63]

Just to continue this "where are the bacteria" discussion,  the two most common condensation nuclei for rain drops are dust particles and bacteria. And a lot of those bacteria are plant pathogens.  Nice for them, when it rains they are delivered straight to their victims.

My office mate was a  microbiologist.   She said that except for special situations like medical rooms and surfaces,  soap and water was better than "antibacterial" cleaners.  Soap is a surfactant, so a good scrub and a really good rins gets things clean without any bacteria developing resistance to a bactericide.

[Cranky]

I don’t remember exactly what I answered the first time, but my kitchen trash doesn’t get anything too gross in it. We fill up maybe one bag/week. And the big garbage can in the garage doesn’t seem any grosser than anything else in the garage.

I still wash my hands whenever I come into the house, and before I cook and other basic times, but I don’t think that I touch the garbage can very often. It is not a reason for concern in my routine. Lol

[dragoncar]

I compost, so there's rarely anything gross in my garbage.

That’s just sidestepping the question.  Do you wash your hands after you touch your compost bin?

[Metalcat]

I compost, so there's rarely anything gross in my garbage.

That’s just sidestepping the question.  Do you wash your hands after you touch your compost bin?

Often yes, because I'm handling food when I touch the compost bin. But the compost bin is also tiny and gets emptied when I'm done working with food. So it's really not comparable.

I would absolutely wash my hands after touching the large compost bins in the building, as well as the garbage chutes, and the recycling bins, but they're communal and filthy.

But I also wash my hands whenever I come back into my home from touching things in communal spaces, so again, moot point.

[classicrando]

I compost, so there's rarely anything gross in my garbage.

That’s just sidestepping the question.  Do you wash your hands after you touch your compost bin?

Why would you?  Are you elbows deep in there, aerating the compost by hand?

[charlesb2003]

Anti-bacterial soap does two things better than regular soap:  Jack and shit.   Regular soap works by physically removing dirt.  The dirt is where the bacteria is.   Remember, if it looks dirty, it is dirty.   There is a mountain of evidence that shows anti-bacterial soap is no better at removing bacteria than regular soap.   Even in bio labs we didn't use anti-bacterial soap.   It is a marketing scam.

I'd argue anti-bacterial soap is worse than a marketing scam.  It is a straight up inferior product to regular soap.

Earlier I mentioned that I do BJJ - effectively hot, sweaty wrestling with lots of skin to skin contact.  Skin problems (ringworm, impetigo, staph, etc.) are common in wrestling, so hygiene before/after practice is important.  Most of it is just basic crap - you don't step from an area where outdoor shoes are used and onto the mats.  You always shower immediately after practice.  You always wash anything that was used in practice immediately after practice and never use stuff twice.  But at some point in the past I had decided that since skin infections were a problem I should start using anti-bacterial soap every time I showered off - little germs being the issue, right?

During the six month period that I was using anti-bacterial soap I had regular and repeated skin infections.  Your skin wants/needs bacteria growing on it all the time.  It's a whole eco-system going on there that actually protects you.  Anti-bacterial soap seems to strip this ecosystem away and damage your skin somehow, leaving you at higher risk of colonization/infection by the bad stuff.  I went back to using regular soap and occasionally moisturizing my skin and the skin infections largely went away.

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience!  I suffer from occasional dry skin, especially on my legs, but besides that my skin is pretty great.  I've been bathing with antibacterial soap since birth basically, so I'm not sure what effect stopping would have on me and I'm not keen to find out, but this is good info for those who might be considering picking up that habit.  To each his own, but for me it's peace of mind.

[GuitarStv]

Anti-bacterial soap does two things better than regular soap:  Jack and shit.   Regular soap works by physically removing dirt.  The dirt is where the bacteria is.   Remember, if it looks dirty, it is dirty.   There is a mountain of evidence that shows anti-bacterial soap is no better at removing bacteria than regular soap.   Even in bio labs we didn't use anti-bacterial soap.   It is a marketing scam.

I'd argue anti-bacterial soap is worse than a marketing scam.  It is a straight up inferior product to regular soap.

Earlier I mentioned that I do BJJ - effectively hot, sweaty wrestling with lots of skin to skin contact.  Skin problems (ringworm, impetigo, staph, etc.) are common in wrestling, so hygiene before/after practice is important.  Most of it is just basic crap - you don't step from an area where outdoor shoes are used and onto the mats.  You always shower immediately after practice.  You always wash anything that was used in practice immediately after practice and never use stuff twice.  But at some point in the past I had decided that since skin infections were a problem I should start using anti-bacterial soap every time I showered off - little germs being the issue, right?

During the six month period that I was using anti-bacterial soap I had regular and repeated skin infections.  Your skin wants/needs bacteria growing on it all the time.  It's a whole eco-system going on there that actually protects you.  Anti-bacterial soap seems to strip this ecosystem away and damage your skin somehow, leaving you at higher risk of colonization/infection by the bad stuff.  I went back to using regular soap and occasionally moisturizing my skin and the skin infections largely went away.

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience!  I suffer from occasional dry skin, especially on my legs, but besides that my skin is pretty great.  I've been bathing with antibacterial soap since birth basically, so I'm not sure what effect stopping would have on me and I'm not keen to find out, but this is good info for those who might be considering picking up that habit.  To each his own, but for me it's peace of mind.

There's no evidence that antibacterial soap works better than regular soap for protecting from disease and infection (https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/skip-antibacterial-soap-use-plain-soap-and-water, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27585555/).  There is some evidence that the additives in antibacterial soaps make you less healthy though - they include endocrine disruptors and are more likely to cause irritation to the skin (https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-problem-with-antibacterial-soap-4125914).  Antibacterial soaps also appear to contribute to antibiotic resistance in germs (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK73515/).

Honestly, in your position I'd drop the antibacterial soap for a couple months and see how things go.  Worst case you can always go back to it, best case you'll find out that your skin is (much) healthier without.

[charlesb2003]

Anti-bacterial soap does two things better than regular soap:  Jack and shit.   Regular soap works by physically removing dirt.  The dirt is where the bacteria is.   Remember, if it looks dirty, it is dirty.   There is a mountain of evidence that shows anti-bacterial soap is no better at removing bacteria than regular soap.   Even in bio labs we didn't use anti-bacterial soap.   It is a marketing scam.

I'd argue anti-bacterial soap is worse than a marketing scam.  It is a straight up inferior product to regular soap.

Earlier I mentioned that I do BJJ - effectively hot, sweaty wrestling with lots of skin to skin contact.  Skin problems (ringworm, impetigo, staph, etc.) are common in wrestling, so hygiene before/after practice is important.  Most of it is just basic crap - you don't step from an area where outdoor shoes are used and onto the mats.  You always shower immediately after practice.  You always wash anything that was used in practice immediately after practice and never use stuff twice.  But at some point in the past I had decided that since skin infections were a problem I should start using anti-bacterial soap every time I showered off - little germs being the issue, right?

During the six month period that I was using anti-bacterial soap I had regular and repeated skin infections.  Your skin wants/needs bacteria growing on it all the time.  It's a whole eco-system going on there that actually protects you.  Anti-bacterial soap seems to strip this ecosystem away and damage your skin somehow, leaving you at higher risk of colonization/infection by the bad stuff.  I went back to using regular soap and occasionally moisturizing my skin and the skin infections largely went away.

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience!  I suffer from occasional dry skin, especially on my legs, but besides that my skin is pretty great.  I've been bathing with antibacterial soap since birth basically, so I'm not sure what effect stopping would have on me and I'm not keen to find out, but this is good info for those who might be considering picking up that habit.  To each his own, but for me it's peace of mind.

There's no evidence that antibacterial soap works better than regular soap for protecting from disease and infection (https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/skip-antibacterial-soap-use-plain-soap-and-water, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27585555/).  There is some evidence that the additives in antibacterial soaps make you less healthy though - they include endocrine disruptors and are more likely to cause irritation to the skin (https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-problem-with-antibacterial-soap-4125914).  Antibacterial soaps also appear to contribute to antibiotic resistance in germs (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK73515/).

Honestly, in your position I'd drop the antibacterial soap for a couple months and see how things go.  Worst case you can always go back to it, best case you'll find out that your skin is (much) healthier without.

Putting my tinfoil hat back on here... are those studies by the same people who recommended experimental mRNA injections to treat a virus with a 99% survival rate?  The same injections that are now causing young, otherwise healthy people to randomly stop being alive?  I think I'll stick with what I know, but thanks for sharing!

Remember, a patient cured is a customer lost.  It's much more profitable for big pharma and the medical industrial complex to keep us all just sick enough to require constant treatment, but not sick enough to stop us from being able to work in the rat race so we can afford their treatments and medicines. 

Killing germs seems like the most obvious way to stop their spread, no?  I don't need a study to tell me that.  Also, there are endocrine disruptors everywhere, even in food.  Soy comes to mind.  So I'm not gonna let anyone fear monger me into not being as sanitary as I can.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Anti-bacterial soap does two things better than regular soap:  Jack and shit.   Regular soap works by physically removing dirt.  The dirt is where the bacteria is.   Remember, if it looks dirty, it is dirty.   There is a mountain of evidence that shows anti-bacterial soap is no better at removing bacteria than regular soap.   Even in bio labs we didn't use anti-bacterial soap.   It is a marketing scam.

I'd argue anti-bacterial soap is worse than a marketing scam.  It is a straight up inferior product to regular soap.

Earlier I mentioned that I do BJJ - effectively hot, sweaty wrestling with lots of skin to skin contact.  Skin problems (ringworm, impetigo, staph, etc.) are common in wrestling, so hygiene before/after practice is important.  Most of it is just basic crap - you don't step from an area where outdoor shoes are used and onto the mats.  You always shower immediately after practice.  You always wash anything that was used in practice immediately after practice and never use stuff twice.  But at some point in the past I had decided that since skin infections were a problem I should start using anti-bacterial soap every time I showered off - little germs being the issue, right?

During the six month period that I was using anti-bacterial soap I had regular and repeated skin infections.  Your skin wants/needs bacteria growing on it all the time.  It's a whole eco-system going on there that actually protects you.  Anti-bacterial soap seems to strip this ecosystem away and damage your skin somehow, leaving you at higher risk of colonization/infection by the bad stuff.  I went back to using regular soap and occasionally moisturizing my skin and the skin infections largely went away.

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience!  I suffer from occasional dry skin, especially on my legs, but besides that my skin is pretty great.  I've been bathing with antibacterial soap since birth basically, so I'm not sure what effect stopping would have on me and I'm not keen to find out, but this is good info for those who might be considering picking up that habit.  To each his own, but for me it's peace of mind.

There's no evidence that antibacterial soap works better than regular soap for protecting from disease and infection (https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/skip-antibacterial-soap-use-plain-soap-and-water, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27585555/).  There is some evidence that the additives in antibacterial soaps make you less healthy though - they include endocrine disruptors and are more likely to cause irritation to the skin (https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-problem-with-antibacterial-soap-4125914).  Antibacterial soaps also appear to contribute to antibiotic resistance in germs (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK73515/).

Honestly, in your position I'd drop the antibacterial soap for a couple months and see how things go.  Worst case you can always go back to it, best case you'll find out that your skin is (much) healthier without.

Putting my tinfoil hat back on here... are those studies by the same people who recommended experimental mRNA injections to treat a virus with a 99% survival rate?  The same injections that are now causing young, otherwise healthy people to randomly stop being alive?  I think I'll stick with what I know, but thanks for sharing!

Remember, a patient cured is a customer lost.  It's much more profitable for big pharma and the medical industrial complex to keep us all just sick enough to require constant treatment, but not sick enough to stop us from being able to work in the rat race so we can afford their treatments and medicines. 

Killing germs seems like the most obvious way to stop their spread, no?  I don't need a study to tell me that.  Also, there are endocrine disruptors everywhere, even in food.  Soy comes to mind.  So I'm not gonna let anyone fear monger me into not being as sanitary as I can.

Well at least you prefaced your response with having put a tinfoil hat on.  Ultimately, science is a battle between sources of truth, and you aren't providing a whole lotta reputable sources (aka links) in order to refute the debater, so there's nothing to say that your self admitted conspiracy theory laden response has any merit.  I'll go with the NIH referenced report until you give me a substantial reason to be skeptical.  Sorry if I missed something but I didn't read your post in its entirety since it started off so painfully.

[Metalcat]

Anti-bacterial soap does two things better than regular soap:  Jack and shit.   Regular soap works by physically removing dirt.  The dirt is where the bacteria is.   Remember, if it looks dirty, it is dirty.   There is a mountain of evidence that shows anti-bacterial soap is no better at removing bacteria than regular soap.   Even in bio labs we didn't use anti-bacterial soap.   It is a marketing scam.

I'd argue anti-bacterial soap is worse than a marketing scam.  It is a straight up inferior product to regular soap.

Earlier I mentioned that I do BJJ - effectively hot, sweaty wrestling with lots of skin to skin contact.  Skin problems (ringworm, impetigo, staph, etc.) are common in wrestling, so hygiene before/after practice is important.  Most of it is just basic crap - you don't step from an area where outdoor shoes are used and onto the mats.  You always shower immediately after practice.  You always wash anything that was used in practice immediately after practice and never use stuff twice.  But at some point in the past I had decided that since skin infections were a problem I should start using anti-bacterial soap every time I showered off - little germs being the issue, right?

During the six month period that I was using anti-bacterial soap I had regular and repeated skin infections.  Your skin wants/needs bacteria growing on it all the time.  It's a whole eco-system going on there that actually protects you.  Anti-bacterial soap seems to strip this ecosystem away and damage your skin somehow, leaving you at higher risk of colonization/infection by the bad stuff.  I went back to using regular soap and occasionally moisturizing my skin and the skin infections largely went away.

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience!  I suffer from occasional dry skin, especially on my legs, but besides that my skin is pretty great.  I've been bathing with antibacterial soap since birth basically, so I'm not sure what effect stopping would have on me and I'm not keen to find out, but this is good info for those who might be considering picking up that habit.  To each his own, but for me it's peace of mind.

There's no evidence that antibacterial soap works better than regular soap for protecting from disease and infection (https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/skip-antibacterial-soap-use-plain-soap-and-water, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27585555/).  There is some evidence that the additives in antibacterial soaps make you less healthy though - they include endocrine disruptors and are more likely to cause irritation to the skin (https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-problem-with-antibacterial-soap-4125914).  Antibacterial soaps also appear to contribute to antibiotic resistance in germs (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK73515/).

Honestly, in your position I'd drop the antibacterial soap for a couple months and see how things go.  Worst case you can always go back to it, best case you'll find out that your skin is (much) healthier without.

Putting my tinfoil hat back on here... are those studies by the same people who recommended experimental mRNA injections to treat a virus with a 99% survival rate?  The same injections that are now causing young, otherwise healthy people to randomly stop being alive?  I think I'll stick with what I know, but thanks for sharing!

Remember, a patient cured is a customer lost.  It's much more profitable for big pharma and the medical industrial complex to keep us all just sick enough to require constant treatment, but not sick enough to stop us from being able to work in the rat race so we can afford their treatments and medicines. 

Killing germs seems like the most obvious way to stop their spread, no?  I don't need a study to tell me that.  Also, there are endocrine disruptors everywhere, even in food.  Soy comes to mind.  So I'm not gonna let anyone fear monger me into not being as sanitary as I can.

Based on this, I'm going to double down on my recommendation of therapy. I hope that at some point in your life you encounter a therapist who makes you feel understood and who you can trust.

I can't comment further because while I have a lot of really specific and supportive things to say, I'm limited as to how I can reply to people who present with needing help online.

[GuitarStv]

FWIW, I shared many concerns related to rolling out the covid-19 vaccines as quickly as was done.  My wife and I both received the Astra-Zeneca vaccine . . . and for multiple weeks afterwards she had migraine headaches, which our doctor believed was directly related to the shot.  So I sympathize with concern in this area and have spent significant time reading through studies and trying to get a handle on the available scientific consensus.

Some people died after getting covid shots.  This was a remarkably small occurrence though.  With Pfizer-BioNTech for 276,000,000 doses delivered there were 3,848 deaths recorded afterwards.  Studies tell us that it's likely that many of these recorded deaths were actually coincidental (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8511593/).

Unfortunately, there have been an astonishing number of misleading claims made online and by public figures like RFK about covid deaths related to vaccination:
- https://www.reuters.com/article/fact-check/covid-19-vaccines-not-linked-to-8200-increase-in-child-deaths-in-past-year-as-idUSL1N31K0ZE/
- https://www.factcheck.org/2025/05/rfk-jr-misleads-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine-in-children/
- https://www.factcheck.org/2023/04/scicheck-no-evidence-excess-deaths-linked-to-vaccines-contrary-to-claims-online/
- https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/study-does-not-say-covid-vaccines-may-have-fuelled-excess-deaths-2024-06-13/
- https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.33XF3CN
- https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/12/23/fact-check-false-claim-covid-19-vaccines-caused-1-1-million-deaths/10929679002/
- https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/feb/09/instagram-posts/experts-say-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-have-saved-mill/
etc.

The available evidence we have regarding vaccination for covid, at least for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is that they're quite safe, and that risk of dying after taking them is much less than your chances of dying or having long term complications from catching covid.



That said, this has nothing to do with antibacterial soap.  Killing germs is an obvious way to stop spread of disease.  But the evidence we have shows that killing germs on your skin isn't necessary - removing germs tends to work better.  Soap and water remove germs as well or better than using anti-bacterial soap . . . and doesn't carry with it all the negative impacts of the anti-bacterial stuff.