Author Topic: Do you uptalk or downtalk your networth? (Read 16228 times)

Jupiter · « **on:** January 30, 2016, 01:58:21 AM »

When it comes to discussing my networth anonymously online like I am RIGHT NOW I'm always honest. I don't mind saying that I'm 21, paying off the mortgage on my one bedroom unit (no renters, I use it myself which makes paying it off more difficult) and have a self-made networth of $177,498 AUD. I'm proud of what I've saved and invested ECT yet I'm not afraid of people being jealous or treating me differently.

When it comes to real life though... I downtalk my networth, DRAMATICALLY! When people ask I state that YES I am paying off a mortgage on a property that I own which I have just over 60K equity in however, I don't mention that I've got over 100K in other investments. People still appear amazed that I'm not renting at my age and managed to save a deposit for a property though so maybe I haven't downtalked my networth enough. I can't go back now though.

When it comes to others I believe there are a few who uptalk their networth, mainly younger people trying to impress others like "Check out my fancy car" ect... stating they bought it but really they are just renting it for the day or borrowing it. But I believe most others also downtalk their networth just like me so that people don't feel jealous of them or ask them for money.

What do you say publically and if usually you don't get into financial conversations, what about that one time in your life you may have? What did you say then?

Two9A · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:05:44 AM »

Oh cock. I voted that I Never Ever Ever talk publicly about my net worth, but I drop by Reddit's FI community and my net worth is broadcast next to my username there. And there's no way to change a vote :D

Oh well. I'm heavily in debt at the moment, so my net worth is negative: when it turns positive, I don't think I'll be broadcasting that for a while.

Adventine · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:10:31 AM »

I don't talk about precise net worth numbers with anybody. It's none of their business. Friends and family know I'm doing well because I'm already self-supporting while most of my peers are still living with family. But I downtalk their comments about how "rich" I must be. I'm in a good position, for sure, but that's mostly because of low expenses, not high earnings.

Jupiter · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:22:09 AM »

Quote from: Adventine on January 30, 2016, 02:10:31 AM

Friends and family know I'm doing well because I'm already self-supporting while most of my peers are still living with family. But I downtalk their comments about how "rich" I must be. I'm in a good position, for sure, but that's mostly because of low expenses, not high earnings.

Same boat here, most of my friends are living with their parents and studying their expensive university courses while I dropped out of school, did a short 6 month tafe course which was FREE due to lack of workers in that industry at the time, worked for 3 and a half years in my industry and am now running my own business and on the side I have a Youtube channel with over 50K subscribers earning me a little extra income but nothing amazing. I'm way ahead of most my age (at least those who have built their networth themselves like me) but it's due to low expenses as well (and also good but risky forex "investments" or gambling as you may call it here...).

Quote from: Two9A on January 30, 2016, 02:05:44 AM

My net worth is broadcast next to my username there. Oh well. I'm heavily in debt at the moment, so my net worth is negative.

Does your online account publicly state exactly who you are and do your real life friends know about and have access to this information? If not then that doesn't count as public :)

Also you say you are in debt. Is that due to a mortgage or "BAD DEBT" like depreciating assets? I'm one of the people who counts my property equity towards my networth. I count my properties worth as it was the day I bought it though, I don't say "well the market has gone up so my property must be worth more" What my property is "worth" means nothing to me as I'm a hold forever type person. What does matter to me is the rent (once I get more properties).

Squirrel away · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:54:54 AM »

I don't generally talk about net worth, except online.:)

To be honest I'm not sure a lot of people I know even understand what net worth means and probably wouldn't use that expression in conversation. I didn't know what the term meant until a few years ago, lol. I think people in the UK talk openly about their salary and how much their house/flat is valued at and how much they owe in credit card debt, but don't talk about net worth.

Dicey · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2016, 03:02:48 AM »

I occasionally discuss NW here if it's relevant and I don't give a shit if others to speak up, down or sideways about theirs, so I didn't vote.

MonkeyJenga · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2016, 03:16:06 AM »

I think on a forum like this, people are probably honest, because there's almost no incentive to lie and no social stigma in having either debt or a large net worth. In real life, I can't think of anyone talking about net worth with any specificity, including myself. People probably assume I have less than I do because I'm so dang ~~cheap~~ ~~tightfisted~~ ~~Scrooge-y~~ ~~an embarrassment to my friends in public~~ frugal.

Miss Prim · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:38:21 AM »

You guys are the only ones that know my net worth, which I have posted on another thread. My SIL knows our net worth but her net worth is even higher than ours! No one else on my side knows, but they have an inkling because I have said over the years that I have been saving 20% of my income, basically to kind of spur them on to do the same. Alas, it fell on deaf ears!

Miss Prim

Two9A · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:48:46 AM »

Quote from: Jupiter on January 30, 2016, 02:22:09 AM

Does your online account publicly state exactly who you are and do your real life friends know about and have access to this information? If not then that doesn't count as public :)

It doesn't publicly state my name, but I've written enough stuff on Reddit that links to things with my name at the top, that one could correlate.

Quote

Also you say you are in debt. Is that due to a mortgage or "BAD DEBT" like depreciating assets? I'm one of the people who counts my property equity towards my networth.

It's mortgage. I don't count property equity towards net worth, because the property's falling in value every year, and the rental market is junk around here. "Fortunately", it'll be my house when renovation's done.

Jupiter · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2016, 06:11:53 AM »

Wow, these votes are quite spread out. Someone stated that they uptalk their networth. I'm curious as to why they do that. Are there any advantages to that?

plainjane · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2016, 06:46:33 AM »

I never talk about numbers for NW. So, for example, I would never tell someone how much equity we have in the house. Instead, I'd say that we were focused on paying down the mortgage, or, before we bought, that we were saving so we could put 25% down to avoid the insurance. I've told a couple of people that we're almost done on the mortgage, so now my line is that we're catching up on investments for retirement. Even then, I'm probably still oversharing. It's mostly in response to people commenting about me bringing lunch into work, and they don't realize that they've tapped into one of my life interests, they really don't care about the answer.

I have several fairly high NW people in my extended family. And unless I really change my approach to my job, I'll never reach their asset levels. I do spend less, but they could also probably RE today if they sold the cottage/stopped the annual family trips to Europe + Florida.

Of course, the actual NW number isn't important, what is important is the % invested vs. desired spending levels, but few people in the wider world are envious or brag about that.

tobitonic · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2016, 07:25:34 AM »

I'm not sure what our net worth is; the figure isn't important to us at all. Concrete stuff like whether we have debt or not, whether the house is paid off or not, etc, I can tell you.

johnny847 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2016, 07:35:47 AM »

I participate in the race to $100k networth thread so anybody on this forum can go find it if they want. And I mentioned it in a few other posts on this forum.

But the only people who know my net worth in real life are my parents. Mostly because I feel sheepish when they offer to pay for some random large expenses here and there.

I also rarely talk about my income among my fellow grad students because I make about twice as much as they do, despite not doing any more work for it (other than a fellowship application before grad school started).

pachnik · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2016, 07:38:00 AM »

IRL I don't talk about my net worth other than to my husband. I don't know anyone's net worth IRL either except for his. With all my visits to the thrift store, bringing my lunch to work, and usually local vacations I would guess people think I am broke. Of course I haven't a clue about what others think of my finances.

On here I am honest about my net worth and the fact that I save one-third of my income. IRL I don't think I've told too many people that I save a third. My husband for sure knows, my parents might know and maybe 1 close friend. I think what Miss Prim does is a good idea. She mentions that she saves 20% of her income. Maybe I will start saying this too. Just to get the word out there.

Paul der Krake · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2016, 07:41:16 AM »

No numbers. That would be seen as either bragging, or completely out of touch with "the reality facing normal people", or both. I do not lie about the fact that we have savings, but do not volunteer information either.

Our families are starting to suspect that we have more than our age and occupations would suggest, but they don't know how far off the median we really are.

iris lily · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2016, 08:04:28 AM »

Not sure that any of those answers apply.

I have spoken to four people about our net worth, all close friends. One is a close friend who is frugal and who is on track to retire with $2m in financial instruments. He is currently 55 years old.He is straight with us on how much money he has.

Another person is a little crazy, and he constantly uptalks other people's money although I cant tell if he uptalks his own.

The third person has craploads more money than we have, I really dont know how mch and since it is family trust money its not all hers. But I do know that she and her brother own 20 rentals in the area and they are likely not mortgsged at this pount ( hey, we arecall old! Mortgage time is long past) She also talks about a mutual fried who has millions from a family trust. I laugh to myself because No One knows upon seeing their stuff and where they live how much dinero is there. My one friend actually appears poor, if you go to her house. But there is that ancient Porsch sitting in the back under cover. Abd a few nice rugs snd nice art mixed in with the kitschy stuff.

So, we have somewhat regular discussions about investments, income streams, and/or wealth with these people, all childless.

I admit to mentioning our general net worth a couple of times to our closest friend, but only in a very general way, because we were talkng about retirement income. She spends money like crazy and is still working at age 66 with no plan or ability to retire. So she is not in our "frugal" club and as an outsider doesnt get to participate in wealth building discussions. ;)

iris lily · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2016, 08:13:24 AM »

We dont talk net worth to our family simply because we dont live near them.

But DH and I speculate and we know there are several millionaires in our family. It not hard to know because we know who owns farmland clear of mortgage and how much acreage theyve got. We just do the math.

Sailor Sam · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2016, 08:48:15 AM »

I talk to my immediate family about net worth, as well as 3 friends who are interested in finances and money. No one else has ever asked me, but I would probably tell them the honest truth if they did.

2Birds1Stone · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2016, 09:03:41 AM »

The only person who knows my NW in the real world is my SO.

My parents understand that I am doing well and saving a bit over half my income.

Friends I don't discuss this with, jus a year ago we were around the same income in my circle, since then I have disproportionately increased my income and don't want it to affect any of my relationships.

Co workers all know how much we make. Our salaries and quotas are pretty common knowledge. I am actually one of the lower earning employees where I work, so there is quite a bit of wealth or high class pay check to paycheck living lol.

BudgetSlasher · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2016, 09:06:08 AM »

Family and close friends have a pretty accurate understanding on my financial situation, not the exact dollar amount or savings rate, but a good picture.

Outside of that circle, I will talk stocks, mutual funds, savings, general investing, and the like with, but not the specifics of my situation.

I don't actively talk up or down my situation, but I avoid revealing details. People are very good at deceiving themselves into thinking you are just like them if you give non-commital answers. My older well invested, but also highly levereaged friends assume that I am similar to them or at least on the same path, friends closer to my own age assume that I am in the same positions as they are.

Ducky · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2016, 09:21:07 AM »

We discuss this with nobody IRL. It just creates stress and some resentful people. It doesnt take much money to make some people resentful.

Apples · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2016, 12:56:18 PM »

I answered that I downtalk but I think most people uptalk.

I have never ever disclosed our actual NW numbers to anyone (other than parents, which since we are in our 20s they pretty much know anyway). However, I have talked with a lot of friends about generally paying off student loans and how much to contribute to a 401k at work, and what the heck is a Roth type questions. I say we have some savings, but would never admit that our NW is equal to a year of gross income now. I saw we have some money set aside for emergencies but would never say it is a full 3 months worth of expenses. Etc.

A lot of people IME uptalk their NW at this stage of the game, if they have one. Of course there is always people drowning in student loan debts, but I have friends who talk about putting down payments on homes (not mentioning it is probably only 5% down) and paying off their student loans (on the 25 year plan). They play up responsible choices, but do not mention the 5% part or the 25 year plan part. And then there are always the people who brag about everything (I may possibly once have been one of them....not my best moment).

Bertram · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2016, 01:29:25 PM »

Most people do not understand the net present value of a discounted series of cash flows. They don't understand safe withdrawal rates. And they don't know that having a high 6 figure lump sum means you can really only spend a small portion of it per year, if you plan on living on it for decades. So no, I'd never talk about numbers, because it would give a false impression. If I find sensible people to talk with about finances I do talk about what I am living on in a month (expenses), as I seem that's really the only number worth talking about it.

cats · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2016, 01:57:57 PM »

I don't really discuss specific numbers but I marked "downtalk" as that's what I seem to wind up doing most often when discussing my general financial situation with others. I find NW specifically to be a little useless as a metric of how "well" someone is doing because how much you "need" can vary so much from person to person.

In general I find myself downtalking or being vague about our financial situation a bit with friends or family because most of them don't really seem to get or believe in the idea of FIRE. As an example, my dad will sometimes ask "when are you going to buy a house?". If I explain that houses in this area are expensive, when we run the numbers we don't yet see a convincing argument for buying a house, but that we are putting money away so that if the right opportunity arises, we can buy...he gets all that. If I were to tell him exactly what our NW is and how much we put into savings/investments last year I think he would wonder why we don't loosen the purse strings a little more and just buy the damn house, or why we don't just use money to buy convenience in ways that he does. Definitely we do some things that he views as "scrimping" and we just view as "not introducing additional BS to our lives, with saving money as a side benefit". e.g. he buys books from Amazon, we use the library...sure it saves us money but it also keeps us from accumulating a bunch of books to cart around when we move or find space for in our home. Anyway, he's cool with the "scrimping" if he thinks it's because we NEED to be saving money....but I think he and I would disagree on how much we need to be saving.

BlueHouse · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:08:42 PM »

I don't talk about my net worth in numbers, but I do like to give the impression that I'm house-poor (because I feel that way) or that I'm nowhere near where I should be financially, or that I never do anything nice for myself (because I like to play the martyr maybe?).

I play this game with myself too though. I am very risk averse, so I like to "hide" money from myself by putting it into a bank account that I don't include in my retirement estimates, etc. I guess that's really my emergency fund, but I don't really think of it as such. I also greatly minimize the value of my house on my balance sheet, so in case the housing market drops, then I'm not in the hole so much.

Also, when I went over $1M NW (the house being a substantial portion of it), I reduced the value of the asset and have kept reducing it to make my goal of $1M just beyond me. My real net worth (counting the value of the house) is probably 25% higher than what I look at every day. Trying to get to $1M motivates me, even if I have to trick myself.

MM_MG · « **Reply #25 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:26:50 PM »

I voted honest/honest as the only people I discuss it with in any detail are close friends. However, there are always times when I believe others are up/down talking their worth. I'll also downtalk my NW if the situation warrants it.

Cassie · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:30:54 PM »

I didn't vote because like IL I didn't think any of the choices fit us. WE only have a few close friends that we honestly discuss finances with. When we first retired and downsized our home so it would be paid off it cost us a few friendships because people were jealous.

shelivesthedream · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:32:34 PM »

I never discuss numbers but I generally imply that we are stable with a bit put by for emergencies or rough times (my freelance work is very erratic) but nothing major. Partially it's because a large percentage of my NW was gifts from family (saving every birthday present ever growing up and we "made" a lot from our wedding a year ago - my grandmother is very keen to save her assets from inheritance tax) so I think giving accurate numbers would give a false impression.

I'm surprised by the "uptalk" vote. What advantage would a mustachian possibly gain from up talking their NW?

Paul der Krake · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2016, 03:10:26 PM »

Quote from: shelivesthedream on January 30, 2016, 02:32:34 PM

I'm surprised by the "uptalk" vote. What advantage would a mustachian possibly gain from up talking their NW?

Asserting dominance at your local MMM meetup.

cdttmm · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2016, 03:27:51 PM »

Interesting topic. I didn't vote because I don't think any of the answer choices really apply to me. I will talk pretty openly about finances, but most people just don't ask as they'd rather make assumptions. And people who do ask questions usually don't ask about net worth (probably because most of them wouldn't think to use that term).

cats · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:27:16 PM »

[
I'm surprised by the "uptalk" vote. What advantage would a mustachian possibly gain from up talking their NW?
[/quote]

I have encountered people on other forums who are in professions that are typically viewed as high earning (dentists, doctors, lawyers), but who have really massive student loans (think on the order of $300k). They'll say online that they are embarrassed to tell anyone IRL about how they have this huge debt load, so they just let friends/family assume that they are doing really well financially. They are typically making serious efforts to repay the loans so I guess they would qualify as "mustachian" even though they have a really negative net worth.

Within the population as a whole I think there are definitely people who think it's important to be seen as possessing a certain level of affluence, so certainly the idea of making out that you are better off than you really are is not unheard of.

soccerluvof4 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:38:09 PM »

Been on here for 3+/- years and have asked many questions and have been asked many questions so being smart people sure if MMM peeps wanted to could figure it out.

Outside of MMM if people ask I just say we made some changes in our lives, gave a few things up so we could retire early. Most people dont push it from there because they cant really see the changes in activity just the downsizing of the house. I have always dressed down and never flashed cash. I use the line alot though I am on a fixed income and love how it rolls off my lips!!

Kenbo · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:43:05 PM »

I think my mom knows I'm doing well but I don't ever talk specific numbers. I have a few friends I also occasionally talk about how I hope to retire early but once again nothing specific to my numbers. Just mostly about how to do it and percentages more than anything. Mostly broad finance talk.

Erica/NWEdible · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:44:02 PM »

There are 3 people in RL with whom I will discuss hard numbers. One is my husband. The other two I'd literally trust with my life. Other than that, I do not discuss this stuff publicly.

Jon_Snow · « **Reply #34 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:48:04 PM »

You would be hard pressed to find a mention of our NW on this forum...it does exist though.

I never discuss it IRL. :)

Bateaux · « **Reply #35 on:** January 30, 2016, 05:46:28 PM »

I downplay net worth. Especially in person. It could change my relationship with friends. I hang out with folks who are barely above water. They mostly don't own cars, they don't own homes, they drink PBR and ride bikes. They like you for who you are and not what you're worth.

Koogie · « **Reply #36 on:** January 30, 2016, 06:18:59 PM »

Quote from: Two9A on January 30, 2016, 02:05:44 AM

Oh cock. ...

James, is that you ? :o)

I downtalk my networth with everyone except my business partner, my accountant and my wife. And I only really trust one of them... :o)

tj · « **Reply #37 on:** January 30, 2016, 06:51:49 PM »

I've only shared my financial specifics with my parents, and it's probably been a couple years.

Blindsquirrel · « **Reply #38 on:** January 30, 2016, 07:07:34 PM »

I have 1 friend that I have known and worked with for 25 years who I am honest with as well as my parents who I help financially. The one friend who knows is also an investor but not a moustachian. I checked downplay because my coworkers would sh!t their pants if they knew. I have helped other younger coworkers get their stuff together and some may think they have a clue but they do not.

FIRE me · « **Reply #39 on:** January 30, 2016, 09:11:19 PM »

I've mentioned it here on MMM, but among friends, family, and coworkers, I almost never talk about my net worth.

Two years ago I mentioned my retirement day projected net worth to my sister. Her reply was “My God”. That sister has always lived paycheck to paycheck. Later, I realized it was not good for her or me to have mentioned it.

Last week, when talking about my upcoming retirement (one year away), I mentioned my net worth to my retired neighbor. He is a vigorous old guy, very likable and he still has plenty of money. So I wasn't bragging.

redbird · « **Reply #40 on:** January 30, 2016, 09:54:57 PM »

I never talk about my networth, either publicly or online. I admit that I'm FIRE, but I don't say how much money I have or anything like that. If people ask how I become FIRE, I just tell them the truth: that I save a lot of my money instead of spending it, used the savings to buy investments, and that I keep a reasonable standard of living. I tell them I don't have a $100 cell phone bill or drink at Starbucks or eat out all the time. Those are all true statements. But I don't put any real figures behind it.

On the other hand, I've never heard anyone speak of their actual networth either. I've heard people complain about various debts they have, but it's hard to tell networth when you just hear about student loans and car loans and mortgages.

big_slacker · « **Reply #41 on:** January 30, 2016, 10:46:16 PM »

I don't really bring up NW to people outside the family and one friend. Not really polite conversation. I do mention that I try to save as much as possible and talk about maximizing the stupid good bennies work gives us with co-workers. But net worth I wouldn't bring up.

shelivesthedream · « **Reply #42 on:** January 31, 2016, 02:06:50 AM »

Quote from: cats on January 30, 2016, 04:27:16 PM

[
I'm surprised by the "uptalk" vote. What advantage would a mustachian possibly gain from up talking their NW?

I have encountered people on other forums who are in professions that are typically viewed as high earning (dentists, doctors, lawyers), but who have really massive student loans (think on the order of $300k). They'll say online that they are embarrassed to tell anyone IRL about how they have this huge debt load, so they just let friends/family assume that they are doing really well financially. They are typically making serious efforts to repay the loans so I guess they would qualify as "mustachian" even though they have a really negative net worth.

Within the population as a whole I think there are definitely people who think it's important to be seen as possessing a certain level of affluence, so certainly the idea of making out that you are better off than you really are is not unheard of.
[/quote]

I know that in the general population people want to be seen as high rollers even when they're not. But mustachians? We mostly seem to be concerned with keeping a low profile. I don't count all those doctors etc that you mentioned as mustachians because presumably they don't have a secret goal of a high savings rate, a significant income:lifestyle disparity, and an unusually high eventual net worth. They're just saving to get out of debt and get back on their usual track.

Squirrel away · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2016, 02:07:47 AM »

I have had discussions with people online about what they would do with a lottery win (even though I don't play haha) and how much they would want to win so they never had to work again. I don't say how much I would need to retire as it isn't really that much money at this point and I think it would just lead to a lot of questions. My online friends probably think I'm frugal because I have to be, not through choice.

gecko10x · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2016, 06:18:29 AM »

Welcome to the MMM forums, where everyone is above average...

EscapeVelocity2020 · « **Reply #45 on:** January 31, 2016, 06:25:46 AM »

Having not read any posts, I'll just say that I never discuss my 'net worth'. For one thing, everybody measures it in ways that either play to this 'uptalk or downtalk' business and overall your current net worth is not necessarily meaningful. As they say, there is always a story.... the story is where the usefulness is.

MasterStache · « **Reply #46 on:** February 01, 2016, 08:21:32 AM »

Not even sure what mine is, so I certainly don't discuss it. Folks are more interested in how I'm going to retire early, as opposed to net worth.

Inkedup · « **Reply #47 on:** February 01, 2016, 09:46:54 AM »

I never discuss my net worth with anyone who isn't a close family member.

Guesl982374 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 01, 2016, 10:01:49 AM »

It's situational for my wife and I depending on what we know about the other person. We typically downplay/talk our financials if pushed to talk about it. I believe most people try to inflate their NW through purchases although I have come across people who downplay their NW.

dude · « **Reply #49 on:** February 01, 2016, 11:30:43 AM »

I speak honestly about it here, because of the anonymity, but never with anyone I know besides my wife.

News:

Poll

Do you publically uptalk or downtalk your networth?

Author Topic: Do you uptalk or downtalk your networth? (Read 16228 times)