Do You Think of Yourself As A Good Person?

[Cypher]

It seems that many people have a very strong desire to be seen as and feel like a good person.  Good in a benevolent, altruistic, and generous way.  That used to be a more important desire to me as well.  I wanted to be liked and understood as a part of a group.  Seen as productive and useful and magnanimous to the needs of the whole.  I fought internally against a sense of my own identity if it conflicted with the majority.

Now that I am doing what I want and making that work I no longer care as much about what others think.  There is self sufficiency and adult responsibility.  I wish success for everyone but I don't take responsibility for it.  I feel simultaneously more selfish and more generous.  I give more of my time and resources because I have more to give but if something or someone doesn't connect I have no problem adjusting.  Telling people what I really think and listening to what they really think.

It feels more valuable and worthwhile to be honest than to sugarcoat everything.  People respond more strongly to me in both pleasant and unpleasant ways.  It feels much more gratifying to have true interactions with others.  My relationships either become stronger or they disappear.  Opportunities are presenting themselves in a more effortless way.

I'm not a good or bad person.  I'm just me.  I'm happy to be FI and living the way I choose to live.  I did a lot of internal and external work on myself to get to this point and I'm grateful and humbled to be existing freely.  In the end everyone has to walk a path and it is either chosen or dictated.

Are you a good person?  Do you think of things that way?  Do you care?   

[Fish Sweet]

I don't know if I'm necessarily a good person, but I will say that I try to act in a ethical and morally correct way (boy did that sound pretentious to type out), to fulfill my obligations and duties, to reciprocate to people who give to me, to intervene in situations where I can make a difference, and basically act in a way that doesn't leave me with regrets.

I don't want to look back on my choices and think, "Damn, that was wrong of me.  I should have done something."  I want to do this regardless of whether people see or notice or give me recognition for it.  For me, it's something pretty separate from being Mustachian-- they just operate in different parts of my brain and different parts of my world.  It's mostly internal, and while sure, I love a good applause and pat on the back as much as the next person, being "seen" as a good person beyond what I choose to do doesn't matter much to me.

Sometimes this means offering to carrying an old man's groceries on my way back from work or helping push someone in a wheelchair down two miles of bumpy sidewalk when they're on their way back from a doctor's appointment.  Sometimes this means picking up worms off the sidewalk after the rain and setting them back in the grass.  Sometimes this means talking to the crying eight year old sitting alone on a park bench during school hours and walking her to my house so she'd have someplace to go.  Sometimes this means awkwardly inserting myself when a guy tries to talk a drunk-out-of-her-mind girl back to his hotel room.  I feel like I've done good, in those cases, and that makes me happy, but it's like piling up tiny grains of sand-- maybe when I've made a mountain I can brag about it.

EDIT: I re-read what I wrote and damn does that sound even more pretentious.  Ah well.

[AZDude]

The premise of the question is flawed. People have good characteristics and bad. Sometimes the good outweighs the bad, sometimes it does not. Either way, "good" is a sliding scale.

What you describe in the first paragraph is a need to please, not something altruistic. In many ways, it was a selfish desire to improve your social standing, not a desire to make others' lives better.

Anyway, I have never felt the need to please someone else, but I have noticed a steep drop in my desire to help others as I have gotten older.  I think this mostly correlates with seeing people screwed over, getting screwed over myself, etc... The whole life wears you down narrative.

[Lyssa]

Not sure if I do...

I certainly don't go out of my way to intentionally hurt people and I do my best to help those weaker than myself when I see somebody in need (carrying a heavy bag for an old lady, intervening when I heard a former neighbor of mine being beat up by her boyfriend, assisting relatives of mine in legal matters for free).

However, I usually just don't like a lot of people very much or mankind in general really. And if I have filed somebody under 'nasty person' I honestly could not care less if they get hit by a bus. I guess that alone puts me firmly outside the 'good persons' camp.

What I'm opposed to but do not think of as goodness is so-called virtue signaling. I think it's negatively correlated with genuine kindness and by now I'm positively grossed out by it. Perhaps more so than most signalers deserve...

[golden1]

I think you are mistaking being "good" vs.  being "nice".  I have always felt a strong pressure to be "nice" and not to upset anyone.  What I have realized with age is that sometimes being "nice" and doing "good" are incompatible.  That doesn't mean being deliberately confrontational, but if someone tries to infringe on me or anyone I love in anyway unfairly, I am going to speak up and defend them, regardless of their feelings. 

[overwhelmed]

I think having boundaries in life is hard but does not mean you aren't a good person. I think the older I get the more selective I am with where I spend my time & energy. I think I am a good person and even a nice person but I don't think I get sucked into other people's drama & choices as much anymore.

[Milizard]

Interesting that you're pointing this out. as I've come to a similar realization before.  I used to think of myself as a "nice" person, but it was a trap.  For me, trying to fulfill the self-image of a nice person opened me up to being taken advantage of.  As for being a "good" person.  Basically, I think I still am.  I have some pretty strong morals and care about other's well-being.  I don't allow that to become a pushover, though. I'm pretty tough on people that I know can do better, but choose not to. I had to learn to put my needs (and not those of my immediate family) first, after being very confused about this from childhood religious lessons.  Now, I try not to be a jerk to people, but I'm not going to try to make you feel good about yourself when you're making stupid choices, either.  You can tell me if you think this makes me a good or bad person.  I think it's neutral, myself.

[Gimesalot]

I want the "right" people to think I am a "good" person.  For example, I don't care if some war criminal thinks I am a "good" person, I also don't care if the pope thinks I am a "good" person.  I want the people that are important in my life to think that i have done right by them.  Note that the "right" people can change on a day to day basis.

[tarheeldan]

Good in a benevolent, altruistic, and generous way

Is not at all, to me, the same thing as:

I wanted to be liked and understood...Seen as productive and useful and magnanimous to the needs of the whole

Whether I am a good person depends on my motivations and actions, completely separate from how anybody might interpret them.

I try my best and falter all the time.

[swick]

Chaotic good for sure. I think many people on the forums would test the same: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fdnd%2F20001222b

This page has some good thoughts on the topic: http://www.easydamus.com/alignment.html

I'm taking my example of Chaotic good (the Rebel):

"A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

Chaotic good is the best alignment you can be because it combines a good heart with a free spirit.

Chaotic good can be a dangerous alignment when it disrupts the order of society and punishes those who do well for themselves."

My sis posted a good poem on FB recently:

The Man in the Glass
When you get what you want in the struggle for self,
And the world makes you King for a day,
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself,
And see what the man has to say.

The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one staring back from the glass;
He's the fellow to please, never mind all the rest,
For he's with you clear to the end,
You've passed your most strenuous, difficult test
If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years,
And get pats on the back as you pass,
But the final reward will be heartache and tears,
If you've cheated the man in the glass.
-Author Unknown

I think what it really comes down to it, if I can look at myself in the mirror and get to the end of my life feeling like I have made a difference, I'll consider it a good life well lived.

Really even when we are doing good things for others or sacrificing, you are still getting something out of it. You are fooling yourself to think anything you do is truly altruistic. There is a need of your own being met as well. Maybe it is the high of being able to feel good for helping out, maybe your goal is to leave the world a bit better, so you help others as a way of meeting it. Maybe by being generous, you are building relationships that may help you survive in the future. Maybe you feel obligated to help others because someone helped you. Maybe something causes you pain, so you get involved to alleviate it. There is nothing wrong with any of this, but we are all acting from a place of self, whether we want to admit it or not.

[Sid Hoffman]

I want the "right" people to think I am a "good" person.  For example, I don't care if some war criminal thinks I am a "good" person, I also don't care if the pope thinks I am a "good" person.  I want the people that are important in my life to think that i have done right by them.  Note that the "right" people can change on a day to day basis.

This seems like the very essence of moral relativism: the inherent desire to consider yourself good and do so by comparing yourself against the people closest to you, while contrasting yourself against those furthest away from you.

[VoteCthulu]

Are you a good person?  Do you think of things that way?  Do you care?

Sure, or at least more good than bad.
No.
No. Morality interests me, but more for explaining behavior than assigning who is good or bad in total.

[nara]

I don't think we all ever fit into the black and white labels of good and bad. But I think we should all think more consciously about the impact of our choices and to do good when we can. I personally feel as if being overly frugal becomes a type of selfishness and form of anxiety for people. There has to be balance.

[lostamonkey]

And if I have filed somebody under 'nasty person' I honestly could not care less if they get hit by a bus. I guess that alone puts me firmly outside the 'good persons' camp.

I agree with this so I guess I'm also not a good person.

I try not to hurt other people but I usually don't go out of my way to help them either unless they are immediate family. Even with immediate family, I have limits as to how much I am willing to help. I am very polite though.

[Baking Powder]

I know that I am not a good person. I go by what Jesus Christ said, "There is no such thing as a good person, not even one."

Paraphrasing, of course, but like others have said, it depends on what your litmus test is. If I compare myself to politicians, ambulance chasers, used car salesmen or Chuck Manson, I feel pretty good about myself as a person.

[Lanthiriel]

I try to be as net neutral as possible. I have no desire to have others hold me up as a paragon of selflessness, but I don't want to be an asshole either. My mantra is that if I'm in a situation where everyone can win, I'm going to work toward that outcome. If I'm in a situation where only one person can win, I'm going to do my best to be the winner.

[pbkmaine]

In the immortal words of Buffalo Bill Bittinger, as played by the great Dabney Coleman, I am "better than 90% of the bimbos out there".

[nancyjnelson]

I think you are mistaking being "good" vs.  being "nice".

This.

I grew up female and Catholic in the Midwest - it was drilled into us that being "nice" was a key element to being a good female person.  It took me years to shake off my childhood indoctrination upbringing that "good" was synonymous with being "nice" - especially in the context of pleasing others.

I am a good person; I am not always a nice one.

[Kiwi Fuzz]

I don't believe in the existence of good and evil so no, I don't consider myself a 'good' person, or a bad one.

I tend toward metaethical moral subjectivism (the idea that there are no moral facts, only moral attitudes) but there's probably a smattering of Utilitarianism and other viewpoints in there too.

I try not to do harm, I have no interest in following established traditions or customs without data to back up why it's valuable to do so (either for myself or society as a whole), but I do tend toward being more interested in evidence based thinking which makes some people find me cold or confronting when that's not my intention. I admit an almost pathological need (I do try to resist these days) to call people out on beliefs that don't hold any water in terms of evidence to back them up. This is probably not considered polite by some people but I consider allowing misnomers to go unchallenged as failing to prevent the harm misinformation will eventually cause.

As others have mentioned 'good' and 'nice/polite' should not be conflated.

[runewell]

We can call ourselves good, but that doesn't make us good. 

No one is good - except God alone. [Luke 18:19]

[EmpireOfDirt]

We can call ourselves good, but that doesn't make us good. 

No one is good - except God alone. [Luke 18:19]

Now it came about at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of cattle. [Numbers 12:29]

[Much Fishing to Do]

I'm pretty awesome.

[dannymurphy]

We can call ourselves good, but that doesn't make us good. 

No one is good - except God alone. [Luke 18:19]

Now it came about at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of cattle. [Numbers 12:29]

Yes it appears people might have different interpretations of "good".

[bacchi]

In the immortal words of Buffalo Bill Bittinger, as played by the great Dabney Coleman, I am "better than 90% of the bimbos out there".

Or as Vincent, the main character in Gattaca, said, "I was as good as any, and better than most..."

[Undecided]

I want the "right" people to think I am a "good" person.  For example, I don't care if some war criminal thinks I am a "good" person, I also don't care if the pope thinks I am a "good" person.  I want the people that are important in my life to think that i have done right by them.  Note that the "right" people can change on a day to day basis.

This seems like the very essence of moral relativism: the inherent desire to consider yourself good and do so by comparing yourself against the people closest to you, while contrasting yourself against those furthest away from you.

I don't think that's quite right; rather, I took it to say that Gimesalot only wants to be judged based on how s/he's acted toward those close by, as understood by those people---I don't see anything about being judged by comparison to those other people.

[Civex]

Chaotic good for sure. I think many people on the forums would test the same: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fdnd%2F20001222b

This page has some good thoughts on the topic: http://www.easydamus.com/alignment.html

I'm taking my example of Chaotic good (the Rebel):

"A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

Chaotic good is the best alignment you can be because it combines a good heart with a free spirit.

Chaotic good can be a dangerous alignment when it disrupts the order of society and punishes those who do well for themselves."

My sis posted a good poem on FB recently:

The Man in the Glass
When you get what you want in the struggle for self,
And the world makes you King for a day,
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself,
And see what the man has to say.

The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one staring back from the glass;
He's the fellow to please, never mind all the rest,
For he's with you clear to the end,
You've passed your most strenuous, difficult test
If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years,
And get pats on the back as you pass,
But the final reward will be heartache and tears,
If you've cheated the man in the glass.
-Author Unknown

I think what it really comes down to it, if I can look at myself in the mirror and get to the end of my life feeling like I have made a difference, I'll consider it a good life well lived.

Really even when we are doing good things for others or sacrificing, you are still getting something out of it. You are fooling yourself to think anything you do is truly altruistic. There is a need of your own being met as well. Maybe it is the high of being able to feel good for helping out, maybe your goal is to leave the world a bit better, so you help others as a way of meeting it. Maybe by being generous, you are building relationships that may help you survive in the future. Maybe you feel obligated to help others because someone helped you. Maybe something causes you pain, so you get involved to alleviate it. There is nothing wrong with any of this, but we are all acting from a place of self, whether we want to admit it or not.

tldr: do you think you are a world of warcraft character? Chaotic good, benevolent bad, altruistic neutral hah. Gather your paladins!

[EricL]

I'm a total bastard.

[Juslookin]

And if I have filed somebody under 'nasty person' I honestly could not care less if they get hit by a bus. I guess that alone puts me firmly outside the 'good persons' camp.

I agree with this so I guess I'm also not a good person.

I try not to hurt other people but I usually don't go out of my way to help them either unless they are immediate family. Even with immediate family, I have limits as to how much I am willing to help. I am very polite though.

I think that I a good person and a decent human being, but still I can't disagree with this statement.  I have met a couple of  truly nasty people in my life... I don't mean people that just ticked me off, I mean truly nasty people and I agree about the bus.

[SuperMex]

I used to be a very good person until I realized I was being a chump.

As a leader your workers we like you and say you are a great boss if you let them get away with murder, never hold them accountable, and give them all great reviews and bonuses. If you hold them to a standard ask them to work for their pay check and rate them honestly. Most will say you are an _ss_ole.

Children all want the cool parent that is their buddy and always takes their side against their teachers. They want a parent that gives them cool toys never makes them work for anything and gives them kudos for making a C.
I told my son I'm not your friend I'm your parent. My job is to make you a well educated, adjusted, and productive member of our society If you like me that is a bonus; if you hate me but are a winner I'm ok with that.

Most friends I have meet as an adult are only your friend as long as they are getting something out of you. The relationship is almost never equal, they want you to be there when they need a hand but always have an excuse when you need a hand. At this point in my life I don't even try to have friends anymore.

I long to be part of a community or group that is genuinely good with each other. I'm sure in small rural locations they may still exist but not in anyplace I have been recently.

 

 

[force majeure]

I have an uncle who lives near the hamptons, NY. I know for a fact he has about 100M in muni's.
He always tells us, we are poor out here. I suppose its all relative. Maybe its because he had a poor upbringing. He says, nobody normal lives out here, listing a load of celeb people.  How does one feel good about life when surrounded by extreme wealth?

[Luck12]

I like to think so, but who knows really, perhaps only in a relative sense because majority of people are assholes.   Then again there are people I despise who I wouldn't call 911 for if they were having a heart attack.   I probably wouldn't help in a 911 situation if I knew that person was a racist for example either.   Hell there are people on this forum (if I knew who they were in real life) I wouldn't call 911 for just based on the fact I think they are assholes based on their political views.  Ok, maybe i'm an asshole too lol. 

[Johnez]

I believe in determinism. Good, bad or ugly, I'm pretty sure every action has its root long before any individual was born. That being said, I try to be a good person.

[Metric Mouse]

I'm a total bastard.

A bastard from the start, but a charming one at that.

[SuperMex]

I like to think so, but who knows really, perhaps only in a relative sense because majority of people are assholes.   Then again there are people I despise who I wouldn't call 911 for if they were having a heart attack.   I probably wouldn't help in a 911 situation if I knew that person was a racist for example either.   Hell there are people on this forum (if I knew who they were in real life) I wouldn't call 911 for just based on the fact I think they are assholes based on their political views.  Ok, maybe i'm an asshole too lol.

One of the things I have always found interesting is how almost no one will call it like it is when someone dies. I have worked with horrendous toxic people who were universally hated. When they died everyone went to their funerals and said great things about them. Not me.....

[Metric Mouse]

I like to think so, but who knows really, perhaps only in a relative sense because majority of people are assholes.   Then again there are people I despise who I wouldn't call 911 for if they were having a heart attack.   I probably wouldn't help in a 911 situation if I knew that person was a racist for example either.   Hell there are people on this forum (if I knew who they were in real life) I wouldn't call 911 for just based on the fact I think they are assholes based on their political views.  Ok, maybe i'm an asshole too lol.

One of the things I have always found interesting is how almost no one will call it like it is when someone dies. I have worked with horrendous toxic people who were universally hated. When they died everyone went to their funerals and said great things about them. Not me.....

Did you just not go to the funeral, or did you go to the funeral and say terrible things about them?

[SuperMex]

I just refuse to go to their funeral, and when people ask me why I tell them he was a horrible person. Why should I go and pretend to be sad they died. Of course these hypocrites that are saying how sad they are Joe blow died talked about him like a dog all day long at work.