Author Topic: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?  (Read 11584 times)

drpassiveincome

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Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« on: October 09, 2016, 11:03:18 AM »
Just because you're smart doesn't mean you'll be promoted. A lot has to do with the company and industry. Also your ability to play the corporate game.

I have a friend who is 28. He's worked for the same finance company for 4 years in Boston. From what I can tell he is competent at his job and works hard. He only makes $45k a year. Not sure if he has management potential. The industry he works in is low paid (he's trying to switch). He's in operations.

Now that I'm 31, I'm seeing many people leave corporate job to better careers such as teaching.

I read somewhere that white college educated workers are making on average $100k at the age of 45. But I think the people on the upper end are skewing the numbers. There are tons of workers making $50k or less, many in high cost of living areas.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 11:06:20 AM by drpassiveincome »

ender

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2016, 05:51:17 PM »
If you're smart you realize if you don't take ownership of your career path, you will not ever get promoted.

In fact, if you're slightly more savvy, you'll realize that unless you actually pursue this there is no reason for an employer to consider giving you a raise.

One huge reason that people end up underpaid is they give up ownership of their career and future incomes, expecting their company to guide this. Well shockingly it's more in your interest than your companies for you to get paid more.

human

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2016, 06:13:10 PM »
I work for the federal government in Canada. All workers directly employed by the government get a salary, even clerical jobs that in many private sector companies will pay only a wage.

The pay is much better in government for non management or non technical positions. I know quite a few lawyers that went from private to government and many of those were successful lawyers who turned down partnerships in Big Law, they joined for better life-work balance.

Marx was right, profit comes from labour. Ender has a point you need to be type A to get ahead. Personally, I know if I were in a Private company I don't think I could screw others over for the next promotion or raise. I'm not even sure I would be in the position I'm in now if it were in a larger government department.

In government you often hear managers and executives say that they would be paid more in the private sector. I always keep my mouth shut during these conversations because I doubt many of them could make it to that level or even work the hours expected.

Without a collective agreement or set salary structure people in corporate jobs will just get abused. Unless of course you are one of the many engineers on this board who will soon post and say "That's nonsense I started making a six figure salary 2 years out of college and all it took was white privilege, paid for college and an upper middle class upbringing that I pass off as working class." Then a few others will say "I lived in a favela and ate garbage for breakfast so anyone else can manage". Anecdotes don't wave away reality . . .
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 06:14:49 PM by human »

Metric Mouse

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2016, 06:17:52 PM »
Isn't $45K a shockingly large amount of money? Imagine how much less he would be making if he were female, or a minority, or an immigrant or born in another country.  He should check himself, and recognize how lucky he is.

aschmidt2930

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2016, 06:37:44 PM »
Isn't $45K a shockingly large amount of money? Imagine how much less he would be making if he were female, or a minority, or an immigrant or born in another country.  He should check himself, and recognize how lucky he is.
"Check himself?" The subject of the story isn't complaining here, the OP is writing about his situation.  Don't try and spin this into a tale of privilege and entitlement, that's simply hijacking a good topic.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2016, 06:41:07 PM »
Isn't $45K a shockingly large amount of money? Imagine how much less he would be making if he were female, or a minority, or an immigrant or born in another country.  He should check himself, and recognize how lucky he is.
"Check himself?" The subject of the story isn't complaining here, the OP is writing about his situation.  Don't try and spin this into a tale of privilege and entitlement, that's simply hijacking a good topic.

My point was in line with the op's topic sentence. There are many, many reasons people do not get promoted; not all of them are under the control of said person.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2016, 07:13:00 PM »
Sometimes the best way to move up is to change organizations. Better opportunities elsewhere or a chance to develop new skills.

OP's friend probably needs to update his resume and look around. Maybe upskill if it'll help improve his prospects.

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human

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2016, 07:13:50 PM »
Isn't $45K a shockingly large amount of money? Imagine how much less he would be making if he were female, or a minority, or an immigrant or born in another country.  He should check himself, and recognize how lucky he is.
"Check himself?" The subject of the story isn't complaining here, the OP is writing about his situation.  Don't try and spin this into a tale of privilege and entitlement, that's simply hijacking a good topic.

the OP doesn't have a personal situation, he's writing about someone else.

Tris Prior

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2016, 09:03:04 AM »
Yes, my partner. He's been in his corporate job (administrative position at a law firm) for 6 years now and is making only in the high 20s. I believe he just hit $29k after his last cost-of-living raise (which he finally got after salaries being frozen for several years) and that's the most money he's ever earned.

He's constantly looking, but his lack of bachelor's degree seems to be impeding him, as is his general lack of career direction. He's a musician and artist who basically wants a job that he can go to, do his job, and come home to make art. I've pretty much accepted that that's who he is and is not going to change.... but I do think there are other jobs out there that would pay him more. He just has to find a way to connect with them.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2016, 10:02:09 AM »
Isn't $45K a shockingly large amount of money? Imagine how much less he would be making if he were female, or a minority, or an immigrant or born in another country.  He should check himself, and recognize how lucky he is.

Maybe he is a minority or an immigrant.

In reality, it doesn't matter, because corporations routinely abuse employees of all stripes because they can. And because we've cultivated this rent-seeking world that only cares about return to shareholders. It doesn't even matter that many companies aren't publicly traded, because the culture has trickled down pretty much everywhere.

scantee

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2016, 10:02:51 AM »
This idea that everyone needs to be constantly moving up the corporate hierarchy and increasing their salary to be considered successful is a fairly new one. For most of human history, even through most of the modern economic era of the late 20th century, most people just had one job/profession that they did at the same level, for most of their career. I think that model, combined with a livable wage, is actually the best one for most people. Most people aren't great managers, they highly value stability, and they don't necessarily want to devote a huge part of their personal identities to their work. And that's fine, it's totally possible to be someone like that and still be a hard and good worker.

It's really been the last three decades that businesses started to pull away from this, lifetime livable wage for decent work model, triggering the current environment of each-woman-for-herself where the expectation is that just to keep pace you always have to be working to get ahead. For "elite" workers (maybe 20% of the population?) this model is great! What we've seen is that if you have this kind of temperament and at least some valuable skills, it's not too difficult to achieve career success and make good money. But the vast majority of people don't have this temperament and many of them are being left behind even when they are smart and skilled. And that's even without mentioning all of the possible structural reasons (e.g., chronic illness, mental health issues, born into poverty and unfamiliar with the cultural by-ways of the professional class) that make it really hard for people to keep trying to get ahead, year after year.

So yes, I think most people out there are like your friend. You and I and the contributors to this board probably don't realize this situation is the norm because we're surrounded by a lot of people in that elite class which distorts our sense of what typical working life is like for most people. I have no idea how to address this problem because we're certainly not going back to the old model, if anything we seem to be speeding up our retreat from it. My guess is that we'll see continued entrenchment of privilege among professional elites until some sort of external event comes along to permanently shake up the dynamic. Climate change would be my guess, but it could be a good old-fashioned revolt or revolution.


DA

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2016, 12:20:58 PM »
This idea that everyone needs to be constantly moving up the corporate hierarchy and increasing their salary to be considered successful is a fairly new one. For most of human history, even through most of the modern economic era of the late 20th century, most people just had one job/profession that they did at the same level, for most of their career. I think that model, combined with a livable wage, is actually the best one for most people. Most people aren't great managers, they highly value stability, and they don't necessarily want to devote a huge part of their personal identities to their work. And that's fine, it's totally possible to be someone like that and still be a hard and good worker.

It's really been the last three decades that businesses started to pull away from this, lifetime livable wage for decent work model, triggering the current environment of each-woman-for-herself where the expectation is that just to keep pace you always have to be working to get ahead. For "elite" workers (maybe 20% of the population?) this model is great! What we've seen is that if you have this kind of temperament and at least some valuable skills, it's not too difficult to achieve career success and make good money. But the vast majority of people don't have this temperament and many of them are being left behind even when they are smart and skilled. And that's even without mentioning all of the possible structural reasons (e.g., chronic illness, mental health issues, born into poverty and unfamiliar with the cultural by-ways of the professional class) that make it really hard for people to keep trying to get ahead, year after year.

So yes, I think most people out there are like your friend. You and I and the contributors to this board probably don't realize this situation is the norm because we're surrounded by a lot of people in that elite class which distorts our sense of what typical working life is like for most people. I have no idea how to address this problem because we're certainly not going back to the old model, if anything we seem to be speeding up our retreat from it. My guess is that we'll see continued entrenchment of privilege among professional elites until some sort of external event comes along to permanently shake up the dynamic. Climate change would be my guess, but it could be a good old-fashioned revolt or revolution.

This is a very perceptive comment.  But I would posit that the relatively open society of the United States (and a handful of other countries) that has existed for the last couple hundred years is the oddity.  A society where one's place in the hierarchy is fixed--unless you change that through a violent coup--is the normal (post-hunter gatherer) human condition.  To our modern sensibilities such a society sounds horrible.  But psychologically, there is comfort in knowing exactly who you are and where you fit in the grand scheme of things.  In an open society with high mobility, all of the sudden it's up to you to make sure your life goes alright.  You have to make something of yourself.  With freedom comes responsibility.  In a fixed society, the lower class was not morally culpable for its plight, and there was a quiet dignity to labor.  In an open society, being lower class is partially a choice, or at least it is due to choices you've made in your life, even if you never set out to be lower class. 

Having an open and free society makes people anxious (de Tocqueville called it "inquietude").  A closed society is of course soul-crushing for ambitious folks, but most people are not very ambitious, at least judged by actions (it's one thing to say, for instance, that you want to write a novel; but if you aren't presently writing one, you don't really want to do it, do you?  You like the idea of having written a novel). 

I wouldn't bet on elites being un-entrenched.  It's true, the current elites could be expunged (would take a military action IMO), but they will merely be replaced with new elites, who may be worse than the old ones. 

Lunasol

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2016, 12:29:06 PM »
Not sure if it's OP's friend's situation, but a lot of people aren't necessarily pursuing more money, they're fine with their paycheck, enjoy their work hours, they're settled and ok with their current situation.

I can't relate, but I think it's fairly common

MVal

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2016, 01:06:53 PM »
Yes, my partner. He's been in his corporate job (administrative position at a law firm) for 6 years now and is making only in the high 20s. I believe he just hit $29k after his last cost-of-living raise (which he finally got after salaries being frozen for several years) and that's the most money he's ever earned.

He's constantly looking, but his lack of bachelor's degree seems to be impeding him, as is his general lack of career direction. He's a musician and artist who basically wants a job that he can go to, do his job, and come home to make art. I've pretty much accepted that that's who he is and is not going to change.... but I do think there are other jobs out there that would pay him more. He just has to find a way to connect with them.

I only make $40K and I'm 34. Though I have BA, I don't know when or how I will ever make much more money than I am making now. I'm very similar to your artist friend in that I am not interested in climbing any ladders and doubt I could climb them even if I knew how. I've gone from dreaming of a job that utilizes my natural talents and skills to just viewing my job as something I do for 8 hours a day so I can go home and do the things that make me feel fulfilled.

Even though I might be what some consider "low wage," I'm making more money than I ever have in my life right now and I'm very close to having a net worth that is double my yearly salary.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2016, 01:21:22 PM »
Yes, my partner. He's been in his corporate job (administrative position at a law firm) for 6 years now and is making only in the high 20s. I believe he just hit $29k after his last cost-of-living raise (which he finally got after salaries being frozen for several years) and that's the most money he's ever earned.

He's constantly looking, but his lack of bachelor's degree seems to be impeding him, as is his general lack of career direction. He's a musician and artist who basically wants a job that he can go to, do his job, and come home to make art. I've pretty much accepted that that's who he is and is not going to change.... but I do think there are other jobs out there that would pay him more. He just has to find a way to connect with them.

I only make $40K and I'm 34. Though I have BA, I don't know when or how I will ever make much more money than I am making now. I'm very similar to your artist friend in that I am not interested in climbing any ladders and doubt I could climb them even if I knew how. I've gone from dreaming of a job that utilizes my natural talents and skills to just viewing my job as something I do for 8 hours a day so I can go home and do the things that make me feel fulfilled.

Even though I might be what some consider "low wage," I'm making more money than I ever have in my life right now and I'm very close to having a net worth that is double my yearly salary.

this is me. I could double my salary in 5-10 years if I wanted to but with FIRE a few years away and my temperament not being given to this I'll put in my time and not worry about it. I might apply for jobs that seem good and can be leveraged for higher pay at my current one, but not for more stress.

MVal

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2016, 02:22:21 PM »
Yes, my partner. He's been in his corporate job (administrative position at a law firm) for 6 years now and is making only in the high 20s. I believe he just hit $29k after his last cost-of-living raise (which he finally got after salaries being frozen for several years) and that's the most money he's ever earned.

He's constantly looking, but his lack of bachelor's degree seems to be impeding him, as is his general lack of career direction. He's a musician and artist who basically wants a job that he can go to, do his job, and come home to make art. I've pretty much accepted that that's who he is and is not going to change.... but I do think there are other jobs out there that would pay him more. He just has to find a way to connect with them.



I only make $40K and I'm 34. Though I have BA, I don't know when or how I will ever make much more money than I am making now. I'm very similar to your artist friend in that I am not interested in climbing any ladders and doubt I could climb them even if I knew how. I've gone from dreaming of a job that utilizes my natural talents and skills to just viewing my job as something I do for 8 hours a day so I can go home and do the things that make me feel fulfilled.

Even though I might be what some consider "low wage," I'm making more money than I ever have in my life right now and I'm very close to having a net worth that is double my yearly salary.

this is me. I could double my salary in 5-10 years if I wanted to but with FIRE a few years away and my temperament not being given to this I'll put in my time and not worry about it. I might apply for jobs that seem good and can be leveraged for higher pay at my current one, but not for more stress.

Yes, stress and temperament have a lot do with it in my opinion as well. "Climbers" seem to have a personality type completely opposite to mine and also seem stimulated by things that I find stressful and difficult to understand.

marty998

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2016, 02:38:24 PM »
The 'visible' climbers have the A-type personality you are talking about. There are many like myself who quietly go about their business and do in fact climb the ladder too (albeit at a slower pace).

You can get unsolicited raises too if you are good enough. I make sure I actually fill out my performance review completely, documenting all the cost saving measures implemented (and putting a $ value on it), as well as listing all productivity gains. Prove your worth and the corporate bosses will look after you. At the end of the day, they are people too. They are not a machine designed to screw you over.

If you only put 1 line answers in your annual review, chances are your managers won't have a lot of material in order to build a business case to increase your pay. Give them good reasons to invest in you.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2016, 02:44:11 PM »
The 'visible' climbers have the A-type personality you are talking about. There are many like myself who quietly go about their business and do in fact climb the ladder too (albeit at a slower pace).

You can get unsolicited raises too if you are good enough. I make sure I actually fill out my performance review completely, documenting all the cost saving measures implemented (and putting a $ value on it), as well as listing all productivity gains. Prove your worth and the corporate bosses will look after you. At the end of the day, they are people too. They are not a machine designed to screw you over.

If you only put 1 line answers in your annual review, chances are your managers won't have a lot of material in order to build a business case to increase your pay. Give them good reasons to invest in you.
+1. seems like people forget that sometimes. any time I am frustrated with someone I just remind myself of this fact. takes away a lot of stress.

MVal

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2016, 03:02:15 PM »
I'm sure it's already been said, but I just have to add I am amazed sometimes how normal many high-earners think their salaries are. People who think six figures is an average salary are clearly out of touch with reality. We live in an amazing country where anyone with enough education, hard work, etc. can reach those levels, but I would venture that the "average" American never touches that level of income, especially in the mid-land states. If you are making more than six figures, I hope you realize how rare your life circumstance is and don't take for granted how far ahead you are of the general population.

DA

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2016, 03:14:53 PM »
I'm sure it's already been said, but I just have to add I am amazed sometimes how normal many high-earners think their salaries are. People who think six figures is an average salary are clearly out of touch with reality. We live in an amazing country where anyone with enough education, hard work, etc. can reach those levels, but I would venture that the "average" American never touches that level of income, especially in the mid-land states. If you are making more than six figures, I hope you realize how rare your life circumstance is and don't take for granted how far ahead you are of the general population.

I totally agree with this.  The catch, however, is that six-figure salaries are only widely available in high cost of living areas, and in professions that encourage a very non-Mustachian lifestyle.  If you can figure out a way to earn six-figures in a non-high COL area, you've really got it made.  But again, you're still quite lucky to make $100k+, even if it is in NYC, SF, etc.

onlykelsey

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2016, 03:32:14 PM »
Yes, my partner. He's been in his corporate job (administrative position at a law firm) for 6 years now and is making only in the high 20s. I believe he just hit $29k after his last cost-of-living raise (which he finally got after salaries being frozen for several years) and that's the most money he's ever earned.

He's constantly looking, but his lack of bachelor's degree seems to be impeding him, as is his general lack of career direction. He's a musician and artist who basically wants a job that he can go to, do his job, and come home to make art. I've pretty much accepted that that's who he is and is not going to change.... but I do think there are other jobs out there that would pay him more. He just has to find a way to connect with them.

My assistant at work is one of these, but she pulls down something like 60K in salary plus (wild guess) 15K in bonuses, leaves at 5:30, and gets paid overtime if she doesn't.  My assistant is great, but I think (cynically) what got her where she is was impressing a powerful lawyer and making him move mountains for her when she needed a raise/vacation/etc.

aschmidt2930

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2016, 05:20:34 PM »
Isn't $45K a shockingly large amount of money? Imagine how much less he would be making if he were female, or a minority, or an immigrant or born in another country.  He should check himself, and recognize how lucky he is.
"Check himself?" The subject of the story isn't complaining here, the OP is writing about his situation.  Don't try and spin this into a tale of privilege and entitlement, that's simply hijacking a good topic.

the OP doesn't have a personal situation, he's writing about someone else.

Correct, the OP is writing about the subject of the story.

GetItRight

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2016, 05:51:41 PM »
Isn't $45K a shockingly large amount of money? Imagine how much less he would be making if he were female, or a minority, or an immigrant or born in another country.  He should check himself, and recognize how lucky he is.

Maybe he is a minority or an immigrant.

In reality, it doesn't matter, because corporations routinely abuse employees of all stripes because they can. And because we've cultivated this rent-seeking world that only cares about return to shareholders. It doesn't even matter that many companies aren't publicly traded, because the culture has trickled down pretty much everywhere.

Wow to both these posts, I don't understand what the original post has to do with sex, minority, nationality, or anything of the sort. Care to elaborate on how that is a factor at all? OP's friend accepted the job and now is unsatisfied with the pay some time later but hasn't quit. It is likely a fair market rate for the skill of the individual and the job duties. If the pay was way low the person would move on, if the pay was way high the company would hire someone cheaper.

Regarding the amount, $45k is not "a shockingly large amount of money" in a HCOL major urban metro area. Wages are generally higher in these areas for skilled work as people won't take the jobs if it's not enough to live on. It depends on the job though, which I don't believe we've heard any detail about. On salary.com (not the end all be all, I know) I see a few entry level accountant positions as paying $38k-$48k. I now see OP said the guy was in Ops, but without knowing the position and responsibilities we can't more accurately evaluate it... But we do know $45k does not seem unreasonable for entry level white collar office work in Boston. There could be any number of factors why this guy is at $45k, maybe it's a smaller company with no room to move up, company culture, better candidates for promotion than him, or any number of things, but if the guy is worth more he may need to jump ship and move on to greener pastures to get either a promotion or a significant increase in pay. That's reality and it has nothing to do with any of these absurd things the two quoted individuals mentioned.

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2016, 06:10:51 PM »
This happened at my old accounting firm. New recruits were routinely paid more than people with 2-3 years of experience. Raises didn't keep up with inflation, but everyone was encouraged to keep their salary very hush-hush - wouldn't want your cube-neighbor to know you got a 1.7% percent raise and they only got a 1.5% raise.

At one point a position opened up and there were three good candidates for it in the firm - but they recruited outside the firm. Told all three candidates that they weren't interviewing within the firm but didn't tell them why or what they could do to take the step up. They ended up hiring someone from another firm who was less experienced than all three in-house candidates. There were several people who were doing more than their title and pay-grade indicated and had been for years.

It was almost as if they felt that if you were willing to stay on at the firm, they decided they didn't really want you. New people were shinier.

I attempted to float a higher raise and get them to discuss a promotion path/timeline and got shrugged off. Some of my coworkers had never even asked - they just assumed if they worked hard, someone would notice. No one noticed.

Two months after I left, a recruiter from the firm tried to recruit me for the promotion that I asked for a path to - not because they wanted me back. Just because I was holding myself out as a CPA running my own firm and the recruiter thought I'd be a great fit. She didn't even know I'd worked there. I could have laughed if it didn't seem so oddly insulting.

I came to the conclusion that if you're quiet or not willing to jump ship in a corporate environment, you'll stagnate. The longer you stay without another offer, the more management takes for granted that they don't need to give you anything.

onlykelsey

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2016, 06:18:46 PM »
This happened at my old accounting firm. New recruits were routinely paid more than people with 2-3 years of experience. Raises didn't keep up with inflation, but everyone was encouraged to keep their salary very hush-hush - wouldn't want your cube-neighbor to know you got a 1.7% percent raise and they only got a 1.5% raise.

At one point a position opened up and there were three good candidates for it in the firm - but they recruited outside the firm. Told all three candidates that they weren't interviewing within the firm but didn't tell them why or what they could do to take the step up. They ended up hiring someone from another firm who was less experienced than all three in-house candidates. There were several people who were doing more than their title and pay-grade indicated and had been for years.

It was almost as if they felt that if you were willing to stay on at the firm, they decided they didn't really want you. New people were shinier.

I attempted to float a higher raise and get them to discuss a promotion path/timeline and got shrugged off. Some of my coworkers had never even asked - they just assumed if they worked hard, someone would notice. No one noticed.

Two months after I left, a recruiter from the firm tried to recruit me for the promotion that I asked for a path to - not because they wanted me back. Just because I was holding myself out as a CPA running my own firm and the recruiter thought I'd be a great fit. She didn't even know I'd worked there. I could have laughed if it didn't seem so oddly insulting.

I came to the conclusion that if you're quiet or not willing to jump ship in a corporate environment, you'll stagnate. The longer you stay without another offer, the more management takes for granted that they don't need to give you anything.

Accounting firms seem particularly bad at this.  They were paying my friend with a taxation LLM 40K less than new hires who just had JDs, and didn't give him a raise until he threatened to walk for a job paying nearly 300K.  Strange system.  Insult all your current employees and pay the unknowns too much money.

NorCal

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2016, 06:25:32 PM »
In my industry, you have to manage your own career or you'll stagnate.

In finance, if you spend more than 2-3 years in the same organization you are losing out on salary and promotion potential.

If your manager suspects you're willing to continue doing what you're doing for the same amount of money, they won't go out of their way to give you more.

Tell your friend to take charge of his career if it's something he cares about.  Or he may be happy with the lower pay combined with lower stress.

human

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2016, 07:05:47 PM »
Isn't $45K a shockingly large amount of money? Imagine how much less he would be making if he were female, or a minority, or an immigrant or born in another country.  He should check himself, and recognize how lucky he is.

Maybe he is a minority or an immigrant.

In reality, it doesn't matter, because corporations routinely abuse employees of all stripes because they can. And because we've cultivated this rent-seeking world that only cares about return to shareholders. It doesn't even matter that many companies aren't publicly traded, because the culture has trickled down pretty much everywhere.

Wow to both these posts, I don't understand what the original post has to do with sex, minority, nationality, or anything of the sort. Care to elaborate on how that is a factor at all? OP's friend accepted the job and now is unsatisfied with the pay some time later but hasn't quit. It is likely a fair market rate for the skill of the individual and the job duties. If the pay was way low the person would move on, if the pay was way high the company would hire someone cheaper.

Regarding the amount, $45k is not "a shockingly large amount of money" in a HCOL major urban metro area. Wages are generally higher in these areas for skilled work as people won't take the jobs if it's not enough to live on. It depends on the job though, which I don't believe we've heard any detail about. On salary.com (not the end all be all, I know) I see a few entry level accountant positions as paying $38k-$48k. I now see OP said the guy was in Ops, but without knowing the position and responsibilities we can't more accurately evaluate it... But we do know $45k does not seem unreasonable for entry level white collar office work in Boston. There could be any number of factors why this guy is at $45k, maybe it's a smaller company with no room to move up, company culture, better candidates for promotion than him, or any number of things, but if the guy is worth more he may need to jump ship and move on to greener pastures to get either a promotion or a significant increase in pay. That's reality and it has nothing to do with any of these absurd things the two quoted individuals mentioned.

The OP has edited their original post, it originally mentioned white privilege so the discussion of minorities or women was relevant. As to the 45K is a shockingly large amount of money comment - it actually is quite a lot of money considering it is well above the median for the US (which is 32k for everyone over 25 or 39k for full time workers over 25). Oh and by the way the median income for full time whites over 25 is 40k while for African Americans it is 32k.

EDIT - to add am I confusing this with the how to know you are rich thread? Either way the OP states in current form white male making over 45k so race is mentioned as an issue.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 07:08:13 PM by human »

accolay

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2016, 01:36:28 PM »
The 'visible' climbers have the A-type personality you are talking about.

Reminds about the percentage of corporate socio/psychpathy.

This happened at my old accounting firm. New recruits were routinely paid more than people with 2-3 years of experience. Raises didn't keep up with inflation, but everyone was encouraged to keep their salary very hush-hush - wouldn't want your cube-neighbor to know you got a 1.7% percent raise and they only got a 1.5% raise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xH7eGFuSYI

thecrazydoglady

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2016, 02:08:54 PM »
I think a lot of it has to do with industry and a lot of it has to do with drive. In my first job our of college I was making 56K a year. I understand that's high for most of America, but I was in the tech industry in Boston so it was normal. I'm 25 now and making $83K a year at a software company. There were plenty of people at my first company that were in their 30's with the same role as me, making about the same amount. They would constantly complain that a bunch of 22 year olds were making the same amount of money as them but were so comfortable they wouldn't apply for new jobs or do anything to get promoted. Those people are still working at that company in the same role now. There is nothing wrong with that, it's their choice.

For me it was never really about money. It was an incentive, don't get me wrong, but I felt I had learned all I could from that role and was eager to learn more in a new one. I'm on my 3rd job out of college now at a new company. The second was an internal transfer.  Some may call me a "job hopper" or a "climber" but I'm just not a fan of staying comfortable for too long. There's nothing wrong with that either. It's my choice.

My employer for my first/second job was never very loyal to me and treated me like a number so I left and got a salary boost along the way. My new employer really values me and I have no plans of leaving any time soon because I genuinely enjoy my work, the company, and am still learning. To each their own.

RangerOne

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2016, 02:32:06 PM »
I can only really speak for salary positions but generally in any sizable company, or company having to hire from the same pool as major corporations follow certain standard routes for making more money.

Changing position laterally, which almost always requires action on your part, can net you a large raise as you can request a pay bump commensurate with your new position. Though this depends on the perceived worth of the new role. Some titles at the same technical level pay different, like the difference between what a test engineer makes versus a development engineer.

Simply having a good manager can get you better raises. Doing good work for a manager that doesn't pass that praise along in your annual review will cost you money. I've worked for the same corp for 4.5 years now and under my first manager I got 3% raises yearly and he told me they don't do merit raises so that was about all a new employee could expect even with an above average review. Fast forward to 3 years into the job and I switched roles under a more pro-active manager, got a good review, and my annual raise was 4%... I asked how it got above the more standard rate and he just said he told management my performance was very good. So my old manager for whom I worked just as effectively for was costing 1% a year at least for 3 years just by being less proactive...

Most larger companies have job grades commensurate with years of experience and the level of work you are capable of. Bumping a job grade would be a good time to negotiate a larger than normal increase in salary since each job grade comes with its own pay scale. You can always read the descriptions of what merits inclusion in the job grade just above yours and discuss transition grades periodically with your manager if you think you are doing work that merits the bump.

Getting promoted to a management role. In any major company this should result in a notable pay increase, but you have to be well liked and either have managers fighting to pull you up, or you have to fight to pull yourself up. Some companies simply wont have easy opportunities to do this because open roles may be scare if you are in a small to medium size office. Also hiring from within isn't always popular in a small office since they have to deal with your vacancy afterwards. No one wants to lose a good worker from a group so most wont push it without effort on your part.

Worst case scenario your salary should grow every year with inflation raises 2%-4%. As long as your company or group is making its numbers and not doing poorly. Otherwise sometimes they freeze salary raises. Hard work isn't enough, someone with direct influence over your pay has to acknowledge your hard work and pass it along through the proper channels. An inept manager even one who loves you or a bad company in general can kill this for you. In which case it may be time to look around at other opportunities.

MayDay

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2016, 07:37:13 PM »
Unless of course you are one of the many engineers on this board who will soon post and say "That's nonsense I started making a six figure salary 2 years out of college and all it took was white privilege, paid for college and an upper middle class upbringing that I pass off as working class." Then a few others will say "I lived in a favela and ate garbage for breakfast so anyone else can manage". Anecdotes don't wave away reality . . .

You are killing me, and I am an engineer (although not six figures, lol) who had a full ride to college and grew up with middle class income but upper middle class attitudes/culture/opportunities.

MayDay

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2016, 07:54:21 PM »
I just went back to work, and my kids are super curious about money.  Me working again has inspired them to ask lots of questions about how much my husband and I make (and DD thinks my salary is going directly into a DisneyWorld account just for her, lol). 

So I looked up the median family income in the US and talked to the kids about how although we are in the ~85 percentile of family income, the people who are richer than us are LOTS richer.  So we shouldn't try to keep up with them.  But that also, HOLY COW, we make more than 85% of people in this country, let alone the world.  I'm trying to put their lifestyle into perspective (although to be fair their lifestyle is more in line with the 60% percentile I would guess, based on our savings rate). 

H and I both achieved our salaries through engineering degrees.  I stayed in one corporate environment until I quit to SAH, and got your typical 3% raises every year + every 2 to 10 years, you might get a 10% promotion.  Really no negotiation, but when you start out high, it adds up fast.  H has moved around (more due to lay offs than by choice) but even doing it unintentionally, he has really increased his salary.  And he ended up in a corporate environment that gives quite high annual raises (4 to 5%) but not promotions so much unless you go into management.  But at this point neither of us value moving up over flexibility and family time.  We are perfectly happy getting 2-3% raises until we retire.  But we have the luxury of already being at high salaries.  H's 5% raise at 100K sure feels a lot nicer than a 5% raise at 25k!

Zikoris

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2016, 07:58:48 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks that doesn't sound like a bad deal? I bring in around 40K in an easy, low stress corporate job, walk out the door every day at 3:30, have great work-life balance, and save 60% of my income. Zero interest in promotions or career growth of any kind.

It's not some sort of horrible fate. It's quite peaceful actually.

human

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2016, 08:20:09 PM »
Unless of course you are one of the many engineers on this board who will soon post and say "That's nonsense I started making a six figure salary 2 years out of college and all it took was white privilege, paid for college and an upper middle class upbringing that I pass off as working class." Then a few others will say "I lived in a favela and ate garbage for breakfast so anyone else can manage". Anecdotes don't wave away reality . . .

You are killing me, and I am an engineer (although not six figures, lol) who had a full ride to college and grew up with middle class income but upper middle class attitudes/culture/opportunities.

Good to hear! I tend to be a little snarky in these types of threads but I'm really just trying to bring people down to earth and really assess their attitudes.

MVal

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2016, 01:25:07 PM »
The 'visible' climbers have the A-type personality you are talking about. There are many like myself who quietly go about their business and do in fact climb the ladder too (albeit at a slower pace).

You can get unsolicited raises too if you are good enough. I make sure I actually fill out my performance review completely, documenting all the cost saving measures implemented (and putting a $ value on it), as well as listing all productivity gains. Prove your worth and the corporate bosses will look after you. At the end of the day, they are people too. They are not a machine designed to screw you over.

If you only put 1 line answers in your annual review, chances are your managers won't have a lot of material in order to build a business case to increase your pay. Give them good reasons to invest in you.

I agree you need to put forth the effort in your reviews. That may be why I have gotten so many good raises over the years. I have actually been asked to write less in my reviews.

use2betrix

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2016, 04:27:12 PM »
I'm sure it's already been said, but I just have to add I am amazed sometimes how normal many high-earners think their salaries are. People who think six figures is an average salary are clearly out of touch with reality. We live in an amazing country where anyone with enough education, hard work, etc. can reach those levels, but I would venture that the "average" American never touches that level of income, especially in the mid-land states. If you are making more than six figures, I hope you realize how rare your life circumstance is and don't take for granted how far ahead you are of the general population.

I made six figures for the first time at 24. This year at 28 I've already made 220k. I have an associates degree that isn't really required and I went to a tech school.

I think six figure salaries are there for those that REALLY want it. I don't mean by "working hard in the office and making a name for yourself." I mean by leaving your city to the highest paying job you can find. Learning a trade and doing contract work on big industrial projects. It means hard, physical work a lot of the time. Long hours, 50,60,70,80 hrs a week. I worked 84 hrs last week and about 2320 hrs for the year, do the math. I get no paid vacation, and I haven't called in sick for the 7-8 years I've been in this industry.

I don't think I've worked with a single welder the last year at a wage they shouldn't have made less than 150k if they worked all year.

Mind you, these are contract workers. People that travel all over the country for work, and actually WORK.

Salaries are out there for people that want them. However, the 100k salaries for people that all of a sudden have all this stipulations are far, far more challenging. "I won't work over 40 hrs a week, I must have at least 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks sick pay, it must be close to my house and I won't move, and I won't leave this city of 50k people either"

Yeah.... For those people, your options are going to be more limited. I've lived in like 6 states over the last 8 years.

The life isn't for everyone, but it does get old seeing people be all "OMG I'd do anything to make 100k a year..." Then they start throwing out all the things they won't do when you tell them what it takes.

DA

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2016, 10:46:50 AM »
I'm sure it's already been said, but I just have to add I am amazed sometimes how normal many high-earners think their salaries are. People who think six figures is an average salary are clearly out of touch with reality. We live in an amazing country where anyone with enough education, hard work, etc. can reach those levels, but I would venture that the "average" American never touches that level of income, especially in the mid-land states. If you are making more than six figures, I hope you realize how rare your life circumstance is and don't take for granted how far ahead you are of the general population.

I made six figures for the first time at 24. This year at 28 I've already made 220k. I have an associates degree that isn't really required and I went to a tech school.

I think six figure salaries are there for those that REALLY want it. I don't mean by "working hard in the office and making a name for yourself." I mean by leaving your city to the highest paying job you can find. Learning a trade and doing contract work on big industrial projects. It means hard, physical work a lot of the time. Long hours, 50,60,70,80 hrs a week. I worked 84 hrs last week and about 2320 hrs for the year, do the math. I get no paid vacation, and I haven't called in sick for the 7-8 years I've been in this industry.

I don't think I've worked with a single welder the last year at a wage they shouldn't have made less than 150k if they worked all year.

Mind you, these are contract workers. People that travel all over the country for work, and actually WORK.

Salaries are out there for people that want them. However, the 100k salaries for people that all of a sudden have all this stipulations are far, far more challenging. "I won't work over 40 hrs a week, I must have at least 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks sick pay, it must be close to my house and I won't move, and I won't leave this city of 50k people either"

Yeah.... For those people, your options are going to be more limited. I've lived in like 6 states over the last 8 years.

The life isn't for everyone, but it does get old seeing people be all "OMG I'd do anything to make 100k a year..." Then they start throwing out all the things they won't do when you tell them what it takes.

Yup.  If you are smart enough to read and comprehend the MMM blog posts, you are smart enough to earn +$100k in the U.S. (it might take some time to get there, but eventually).  It's very legitimate in my opinion to take an easy job and coast, but don't complain about people making more money than you if you choose to do that.  I would estimate that 95% of upper-middle-class salaries are earned by people who worked very hard to get where they are at, and continue to work longer hours and take fewer vacations than the average person. 

I have teachers in my family, and have heard lots of complaining about teachers not getting paid enough.  My response is always:  (i) salary information for teachers has been widely available for at least the past 20 or 30 years, so you knew or should've known what you were getting into; (ii) you only work 66% - 75% of the year, and the days you have off are truly off (no Blackberry to check), which is extremely valuable but not reflected in one's salary; and (iii) the extremely generous pensions offered to (public school) teachers are also very valuable and again not reflected in the raw salary number.  If you fairly valued factors ii & iii, I'd wager that few public school teachers are underpaid.  But even if I'm wrong, you can always do some self-help (see, e.g., Arebelspy).   But most people will passively complain.   

pachnik

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2016, 11:56:14 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks that doesn't sound like a bad deal? I bring in around 40K in an easy, low stress corporate job, walk out the door every day at 3:30, have great work-life balance, and save 60% of my income. Zero interest in promotions or career growth of any kind.

It's not some sort of horrible fate. It's quite peaceful actually.

+1

i make closer to $50k in a very low stress non-corporate environment, and actually enjoy what i do (what i went to school for). like you, i walk out the door everyday at the same time and have great work-life balance too. i can definitely make more elsewhere, but it's not uncommon to be working insane hours in my industry. leaving could very well jeopardize the balance / my peaceful existence.

+2 I make just over $50,000/per year in a very okay job.  Very little stress and I leave at 4:30 everyday and in fact, sometimes I get sent home early.   For me, it is great.  I save just over a third of my salary every year (since I found this website) and take international trips regularly. 

BallerOnABudget

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2016, 12:30:15 PM »
I may have signed myself up to be "stuck" in my moderately-compensated corporate job by turning down a promotion. My boss is trying to re-structure our department and part of that will be adding a manager position. He strongly hinted that if I apply, it's mine. Unfortunately, I know with 100% certainty that my workload and stress would increase significantly more than my pay would - so I politely declined. For a while I felt weird and somewhat guilty for thumbing my nose at a career advancing opportunity, but I have two young kids and lately I've come to value time more than extra money. Part of me wonders if I'm lacking ambition or squandering my potential; but after having kids, seems like time has sped up and all I want these days is to provide for my family, put money away, be a good husband/dad, and seek contentment, rather than always be looking for the next big thing on my way up the ladder.

sleepyguy

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2016, 09:02:58 AM »
Could be they are like me... I check all the points here... so maybe they do as well.

1. pay is good enough (obviously this is dependent on many things, for me it is anything above 65k)
2. benefits/vacations are good (i get close to 5wks, investment matching etc etc)
3. work/life balance is fantastic with remote work 75% of the time (no commute), and hardly any overtime
4. decent boss and good coworkers
5. low stress job, don't give a shit about "moving" up... more responsibilities for suckers, haha.

My current job hits all those points so I don't care to move up, even though I've been offered a few times which I declined.  My current job I have plenty of time to play/parent with my 2 kids and work hardly ever affects my family life.

SyZ

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2016, 11:04:02 AM »
Basically my situation right now

- Not management material, and everyone in the department is a senior / consultant type level in their 40s who aren't leaving anytime soon
- Consistently been applying elsewhere, zero responses. This is with 4 lateral / slightly upwards job changes into more technical positions, and a top degree from a top school
- Because I had to take something out of college to not, you know, live on the street after my parents kicked me out, I lost 2 years to working in a non-relevant field to my degree just to make ends meet
- Took and passed exams into a field I thought I would move into, ended up realizing it's not best for me. Another year lost
- Am now in a dead end position making more than I will anywhere else I move into, hating every single day of my corporate life, with no passion at what I do. My resume is 7 years of 7 positions at 1 year of tenure each, no coherence, and my inter-personal skills have faded as every new job brings me that much closer to the realization that I'll be making $50k at 50 in the exact same situation I am now
- Meanwhile, my brother who is in permanent disability has about 70% of the take home pay I get after I put $18k towards my retirement every year, because it's the only way I'll have any sort of financial security in my later years

Oh, sorry, I guess posting reality is too 'complainy-pants' and 'entitled' and all the other garbage I get labeled

Zikoris

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2016, 11:53:21 AM »
Basically my situation right now

- Not management material, and everyone in the department is a senior / consultant type level in their 40s who aren't leaving anytime soon
- Consistently been applying elsewhere, zero responses. This is with 4 lateral / slightly upwards job changes into more technical positions, and a top degree from a top school
- Because I had to take something out of college to not, you know, live on the street after my parents kicked me out, I lost 2 years to working in a non-relevant field to my degree just to make ends meet
- Took and passed exams into a field I thought I would move into, ended up realizing it's not best for me. Another year lost
- Am now in a dead end position making more than I will anywhere else I move into, hating every single day of my corporate life, with no passion at what I do. My resume is 7 years of 7 positions at 1 year of tenure each, no coherence, and my inter-personal skills have faded as every new job brings me that much closer to the realization that I'll be making $50k at 50 in the exact same situation I am now
- Meanwhile, my brother who is in permanent disability has about 70% of the take home pay I get after I put $18k towards my retirement every year, because it's the only way I'll have any sort of financial security in my later years

Oh, sorry, I guess posting reality is too 'complainy-pants' and 'entitled' and all the other garbage I get labeled

Unsolicited advice time, since I was in a sort-of-similar situation pre-mustache, 6/7 years ago - hating work, low pay, etc. I found two things helped me tremendously:

1. Tossing the idea that work should be something I'm passionate about. Not everyone has a work passion, and that's totally fine. I sure don't. I made a conscious decision to find my passion in things outside of work, which ended up being dance, travel, outdoor activities, and creative projects. As a side benefit, I found that lowering my expectations of what work should be, from "passion" to "tolerable" made my day-to-day satisfaction at work way better. If you need to do a career change, like I did, it's also a lot easier to do when your search criteria is "something pleasantly tolerable for 10 years or less until retirement", rather than "my life's greatest passion".

2. Ramping up the badassity big time to retire faster. Get the savings rate up to 60%+, optimize everything, and load up the investment accounts. Your 50K salary is totally ample to do that - it's a lot more than I make actually! A lot more stuff at work just rolls off your back when you've only got a single digit number of years to go.

Good luck!

akzidenz

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2016, 02:10:05 PM »
It's really been the last three decades that businesses started to pull away from this, lifetime livable wage for decent work model, triggering the current environment of each-woman-for-herself where the expectation is that just to keep pace you always have to be working to get ahead. For "elite" workers (maybe 20% of the population?) this model is great! What we've seen is that if you have this kind of temperament and at least some valuable skills, it's not too difficult to achieve career success and make good money. But the vast majority of people don't have this temperament and many of them are being left behind even when they are smart and skilled. And that's even without mentioning all of the possible structural reasons (e.g., chronic illness, mental health issues, born into poverty and unfamiliar with the cultural by-ways of the professional class) that make it really hard for people to keep trying to get ahead, year after year.

This is fascinating, thanks for sharing. I've been particularly interested in one thing you mentioned in particular—people being "unfamiliar with the cultural by-ways of the professional class"—because you can grow up poor, but maybe your parents are PhDs who taught you how to shake hands with people and ask for job recommendations and suck up to your boss and delicately handle interviewing and raise negotiations, and on a more critical note: they taught you how to know what kinds of careers and skills you need to do to get ahead in life. Or maybe you grew up poor but with parents who had firmly blue-collar values and blue-collar experiences, and had no prototypes for what were good colleges to go to, good skills to have, good ways to establish a rapport with a professor, good ways to build your professional network. (And I'm assuming, here, that people grow up in two-parent households—also not the case for many.)

A relevant quote from a book called Limbo: Blue-Collar Roots, White-Collar Dreams

Quote
Social class counts at the office, even though nobody likes to admit it. Ultimately, corporate norms are based on middle- and upper-class values, business types say. From an early age, middle-class people learn how to get along, using diplomacy, nuance, and politics to grab what they need. It is as though they are following a set of rules laid out in a manual that blue-collar families never have the chance to read.

It's much easier to "make it" as someone who knows all the invisible rules of corporate life already, because you grew up in that world. And I feel everyone has—or maybe is—the smart friend who isn't getting ahead because they don't have a certain kind of polish.

Without a collective agreement or set salary structure people in corporate jobs will just get abused. Unless of course you are one of the many engineers on this board who will soon post and say "That's nonsense I started making a six figure salary 2 years out of college and all it took was white privilege, paid for college and an upper middle class upbringing that I pass off as working class." Then a few others will say "I lived in a favela and ate garbage for breakfast so anyone else can manage". Anecdotes don't wave away reality…

I'm happy that on the MMM forums we can discuss these things, because it's rare in other FI communities…many people can be successful and FI, but it's an order of magnitude easier if you had the right background and upbringing and access to money. And it's not just about your parents instilling frugal values to you (which can happen at any income bracket). There are so many intangibles that well-off parents can "buy" for you to make your future life easier.

Lmoot

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2016, 12:29:38 AM »
This is why I invest in rental property and have a side job. I earn around 50-55k, with less than 40k coming from my FT job. I have never had the desire to climb the corporate ladder. In fact I actively avoid promotions, despite having been courted early on at every single job I have ever had, including the part time job. I am not white, or a man, or exceptionally more competent than others qualified for promotions.  I do have a college degree, am fairly young, and speaking frankly am relatively attractive (which studies show makes an impact on hiring decisions by both men and women in the workplace), personable, with the solid middle class cultural upbringing. 6 months after beginning at the company I am with now, I actually had a supervisor, who is now a director, ask me to represent our team in a roundtable with a CEO. When I blatantly asked "why me" she openly admitted she didn't want to put another candidate in bc "can you imagine sitting her down in front of a CEO".  This shocked me because the person in question had been there for years, loved and gave her life to the company, participated in team building exercises, was a SME and popular POC with other departments, and a go-getter; endlessly more competent than myself, especially with being so new. But she didn't have the look, the upbringing, the right accent or vocabulary. it confirmed what I already knew about corporate culture, but still left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth.

The one time I agreed (yes, I had to agree after being practically begged to take on a leadership promotion, after which I submitted a formal application to go along with the guise of a fair hiring process; by the way, they always know who they are going to hire before they even post a position), was the most stressful period of my life. The company was getting what they needed out of me so my work didn't suffer. But I was giving all I had, despite evidently making it all look effortless, because the duties of that type of role did not come naturally to me. Folks were shocked when after 5 years I ended up quitting the company, left the country,  and took a six-month break from work. My rental property helped fund this endeavor by the way. When I returned I vowed that I would only work on my terms, which is minimal stress.

When a job isn't your only option for earning money, these things become less important. At least it did for me. Now I like my full-time job at a different company I have been with for 2 years now, and in 2 weeks I will get to work from home permanently on a four-day 10 hour schedule, which gives me more free time and allows me more mental energy to direct towards other moneymaking schemes. I am doing just fine without the promotions, my house will be paid off within two years before the age of 35, and I'll be buying another rental property soon.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 12:58:59 AM by Lmoot »

SyZ

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2016, 10:47:11 AM »
You mean when your house is paid off by 35 and you have two rental properties on top, all while being able to take half a year off to not only sit around doing nothing but actively spend more money overseas and never climbing the corporate ladder, finishing your career by working from home only 4 days a week, you tend to have lower stress? Wow! Let me see if I can drop down to the single ply toilet paper and make this happen. Oh, that's right, I don't live in a town where homes cost half my annual salary like everyone else on this forum.


hoping2retire35

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2016, 11:08:03 AM »
/\ Pretty sure almost no one lives in a town where their home is half their salary, maybe twice.  The only people who make twice the average home price in their region are those advanced in their career and are in some type of high stress environment.

onlykelsey

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2016, 11:20:33 AM »
/\ Pretty sure almost no one lives in a town where their home is half their salary, maybe twice.  The only people who make twice the average home price in their region are those advanced in their career and are in some type of high stress environment.

Agreed.  I, for one, live in Manhattan.  If I were investing in rental properties, it would probably be long distance.  I'd probably go with a REIT or something before I took over management of property in another state.

Zikoris

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2016, 11:55:04 AM »
You mean when your house is paid off by 35 and you have two rental properties on top, all while being able to take half a year off to not only sit around doing nothing but actively spend more money overseas and never climbing the corporate ladder, finishing your career by working from home only 4 days a week, you tend to have lower stress? Wow! Let me see if I can drop down to the single ply toilet paper and make this happen. Oh, that's right, I don't live in a town where homes cost half my annual salary like everyone else on this forum.

Actually, I'd say this forum skews heavily towards higher cost areas, since that's where the good jobs are - particularly engineering, which many Mustachians are working in. Personally, I'm in Vancouver, considered the most expensive place in Canada. I see lots of southern California and New York residents here as well.

I think your mindset is screwing you over more than anything else.

onlykelsey

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2016, 11:56:00 AM »
You mean when your house is paid off by 35 and you have two rental properties on top, all while being able to take half a year off to not only sit around doing nothing but actively spend more money overseas and never climbing the corporate ladder, finishing your career by working from home only 4 days a week, you tend to have lower stress? Wow! Let me see if I can drop down to the single ply toilet paper and make this happen. Oh, that's right, I don't live in a town where homes cost half my annual salary like everyone else on this forum.

Actually, I'd say this forum skews heavily towards higher cost areas, since that's where the good jobs are - particularly engineering, which many Mustachians are working in. Personally, I'm in Vancouver, considered the most expensive place in Canada. I see lots of southern California and New York residents here as well.

I think your mindset is screwing you over more than anything else.

Ding ding ding.

Lmoot

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Re: Do you know anyone who gets stuck in a low paid corporate job?
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2016, 03:59:21 PM »
You mean when your house is paid off by 35 and you have two rental properties on top, all while being able to take half a year off to not only sit around doing nothing but actively spend more money overseas and never climbing the corporate ladder, finishing your career by working from home only 4 days a week, you tend to have lower stress? Wow! Let me see if I can drop down to the single ply toilet paper and make this happen. Oh, that's right, I don't live in a town where homes cost half my annual salary like everyone else on this forum.

Hey we all make choices buddy. Just because someone's reality doesn't match up with yours, doesn't mean it's not reality. And if by reality you mean the norm,  then I hate to break it to you but most of the United States is low to moderate cost of living.