The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Gyosho on September 08, 2017, 10:29:17 AM
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Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
His face scrunched up and he gave me "The Look" - as though he wanted to ask "How can that be? That does not fit into my understanding of reality, that a single, non-wealthy-appearing woman owns a very expensive piece of real estate."
I have gotten "The Look" at other times also. I usually get it when I mention that I own a condo, but I have also gotten it when I mention I am a computer programmer - somehow I do not fit into people's stereotypical vision of what a computer programmer looks like (i.e. young and male and high-salaried).
Does anyone else get "The Look"? I have a very low-key appearance and do not flaunt my wealth, educational, or career accomplishments in any way, which seems to lead strangers to conclude that I am not wealthy or successful.
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Yep, I can relate - also female, been in IT for 20+ years and done well for myself....in recent years though ditched the fancy cars, fancy address, suits, heels, etc for a very natural look/presence. Now, as I walk down the street in my super casual clothing and minimalist appearance, I find a certain smile that comes from within me as people make assumptions that maybe I'm not successful or have achievements in life....I'm laughing on the inside as I have a little secret they don't know about.
I pride myself on being like the "Millionaire Next Door".... don't take offense, take pride in knowing what you know about life and how great you are. Additionally, it's your opportunity to remind people not to judge a book by it's cover - or if they do - who cares, you'll be FIRE'd up in the future, and they will still be WORKING!
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I give a "look" at a certain type of folks. But it usually at the ones who are in constant freakout mode to keep everything perfect so everyone will know how successful their piles of debt have made them.
My guess is that this guy is used to home owners who are automatically compelled to be in "keep up with the Jones'" mode, heck most bought their house to keep up. I look back and wish we had rented for a few more years until we could have avoided PMI, but whatever.
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I got it some years ago when I was much younger and paid cash for a car. I'd told the sales guy I didn't need financing, but when we sat down to close the deal, he brought it up again. I got the look when I brought out my checkbook and asked what the total was. He seemed rather uncomfortable after that.
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I get it occasionally when i say i have been retired going on 3 years now and people know I have 4 kids. I usually follow it up by "Not wealthy or anything like that and not to say I would never go back to work but right now its working so we will say. Nice spending time with the kids". Then they give me the "Look" and usually say " Oh yea thats cool""Or yea i wish we could do that". Really nothing they mean!
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I went to the bank at one point because I was transferring money from my old work pension plan (had just been laid off and needed to move money out of the plan or eat really high fees). It was December, pretty snowy, and I had biked there in somewhat scruffy looking clothes. I had made an appointment, but things at the bank were running a bit late. Eventually the person I was supposed to talk to showed up and we went to her cubicle. She was actually kinda rude to me as we were going through what I wanted to do. Then she started asking me some (I guess) standard questions for this bank. Eventually we got to:
Do you currently own your home?
How much debt are you carrying?
How much is your current net worth?
After the answer to the third question, she gave me a funny look . . . then typed furiously into her computer for a few minutes, then gave me a funny look again, then excused herself. About a minute later I met the branch manager, who apparently decided that it was important that he handle my business personally. It was bizarre how nice they suddenly became because they had figured out I wasn't broke.
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I got it some years ago when I was much younger and paid cash for a car. I'd told the sales guy I didn't need financing, but when we sat down to close the deal, he brought it up again. I got the look when I brought out my checkbook and asked what the total was. He seemed rather uncomfortable after that.
I had a similar experience buying a car. I said I was going to pay cash and that i would need to run to the bank to get the bank check. They then asked who the lienholder who be. I said "no one, I'm paying cash". I'm not sure if they believed me.
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My in-laws (early 60's) were asked to supply investment statements proving they could pay for their house in cash. Apparently no one does that anymore.
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I get it every time I tell someone I'm retired. Something I've noticed: There are two different types of looks. For those who are older, 'The Look' is one of self righteous indignation, usually followed by "you're too young to be retired." My guess is that this group finds it unfair that someone much younger then them is retired while they're still working (or retired much later) - the sense that they worked until 65 so everyone else should. Whereas 'The Look' from peers and younger is one of disbelief, can't comprehend how it's possible or what it would be like.
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My in-laws (early 60's) were asked to supply investment statements proving they could pay for their house in cash. Apparently no one does that anymore.
In my experience, this is a common request. I work with customers that request verification letters from me to supply proof that they have the assets to purchase the home.
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Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
His face scrunched up and he gave me "The Look" - as though he wanted to ask "How can that be? That does not fit into my understanding of reality, that a single, non-wealthy-appearing woman owns a very expensive piece of real estate."
I have gotten "The Look" at other times also. I usually get it when I mention that I own a condo, but I have also gotten it when I mention I am a computer programmer - somehow I do not fit into people's stereotypical vision of what a computer programmer looks like (i.e. young and male and high-salaried).
Does anyone else get "The Look"? I have a very low-key appearance and do not flaunt my wealth, educational, or career accomplishments in any way, which seems to lead strangers to conclude that I am not wealthy or successful.
Haha sounds like "the look" you get is better than the one I get!
"The look" I get is how a well dressed (non name brands), well kept, handsome and seemingly well-off young Caucasian man get's into a beat up 1999 Toyota Corolla....
I would prefer the "look" you get from people! haha!
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I bicycled to a high dollar, powerful, lawyer in town and the receptionist reluctantly let me in to talk with her.
When she agreed to take my case, she told me that she would need a $3000 cashier's check today. I said I'd be back and took off to the bank; I'm sure she expected never to see me again.
When I returned with the check within 15 minutes, I got "the look."
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Notable Looks received: (mostly due to the fact I look relatively young, and I think most people assume I'm a teacher. Nothing wrong with that, but I think they assume I make a teachers salary. I don't.)
-Going to a bank to set up a mortgage at 24 for a VHCOL city. Showing that Mr.HH and I had no debt and a 20% down payment ready to go.
-Opening another bank account (to hack travel rewards credit cards) and then the bank employee being confused why we didn't want/need an extra HUGE LOC that we qualified for.
-Paying 2nd car in cash.
-Explaining to in-laws that we have maxed out our tax free savings accounts this year.
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I get the opposite look. I drive around in my 2001 minivan and even when I pull up to people that I know I get the opposite look. Actually it's more of a head shake. lol I love the way it drives, what can I say? Funny thing is, even my wife won't ride in it and gives me the look. lmao She doesn't want to be seen in it. lol I drove it to Florida to my ex wife's house to pick up my grandson and she was really giving me the look. She asked why I was driving that! lol I've learned that you can never tell by what a person looks, drives or dresses like as to how much money they have (or don't have).
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The look followed by accusations and finally anger. The worst time was when my husband and I paid cash for our house. The title company didn't believe us and proceeded to ask us who gave us the cash and said "normally people come in bragging and I find out that grandpa loaned them the money." See, people our age just don't have that kind of cash and apparently making a cash transaction is bragging. Well, it was a depressed housing market and we took advantage of a property that was days before foreclosure. Our offer was accepted over several higher offers because there was no time to deal with financing from the other potential buyers. The bank jumped on the cash offer. We got a DEAL on that house so that man can think I'm a liar all he wants.
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I think I got the look this morning. Coworker asked if I watched TV and then if I had cable. I said something like yes, but just Netflix because cable is too expensive (and I don't want cable). I'm sure she's noticed I don't really spend money on things so she gave the look and asked what I was planning to spend all that money on. I briefly considered honesty but it would have been an awkward conversation so I mumbled something about buying a house which is true enough.
Same person once told another coworker "You better take some vacations now while you still have money". The implication was that he would have a kid someday and then the money would be gone.
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A few weeks ago after explaining a bank sign up bonus to a coworker. I covered the direct deposit part and the debit card purchases but then I said "Oh ya, and you have to put $5,000 in the account for a few months to avoid fees." I got the look.
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Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
{snip}
I think my response to a question like that would be "Does that make a difference in the terms of painting my home?"
Why does the painter care whether you own your home? Could just be idle chatter but it does sound like he was either trying to put you in a box or perhaps had something to sell you.
I routinely get "the look" when I tell people I've quit the nine to five existence. They mostly just assume I'm being kept by my husband, though, which is all the more annoying because it's actually the other way around.
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Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
{snip}
I think my response to a question like that would be "Does that make a difference in the terms of painting my home?"
Why does the painter care whether you own your home? Could just be idle chatter but it does sound like he was either trying to put you in a box or perhaps had something to sell you.
I routinely get "the look" when I tell people I've quit the nine to five existence. They mostly just assume I'm being kept by my husband, though, which is all the more annoying because it's actually the other way around.
I assume the painter cared because he wanted the business. If she was a renter, the landlord may say no and then he wouldn't get the business.
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I find the topic amusing, but me? I don't really get looks. Don't own a home, or a car, and my significant other thinks I dress a bit like a bum sometimes... I guess the only real luxury I'm prepared to spend significant money on is time in retirement :). Heck, I think even when I talk about retiring early, I don't really get looks because I think they doubt that I actually can.
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I went to the bank at one point because I was transferring money from my old work pension plan (had just been laid off and needed to move money out of the plan or eat really high fees). It was December, pretty snowy, and I had biked there in somewhat scruffy looking clothes. I had made an appointment, but things at the bank were running a bit late. Eventually the person I was supposed to talk to showed up and we went to her cubicle. She was actually kinda rude to me as we were going through what I wanted to do. Then she started asking me some (I guess) standard questions for this bank. Eventually we got to:
Do you currently own your home?
How much debt are you carrying?
How much is your current net worth?
After the answer to the third question, she gave me a funny look . . . then typed furiously into her computer for a few minutes, then gave me a funny look again, then excused herself. About a minute later I met the branch manager, who apparently decided that it was important that he handle my business personally. It was bizarre how nice they suddenly became because they had figured out I wasn't broke.
Wow, how uncool of them. My dad used to be a broker at a bank. He was the guy people were sent to when they walked in off the street with <$X to invest (in the days before self-directed investing). He said he quickly figured out that a person's NW was inversely proportional to the cost and age of their outfit. Apparently his highest NW clients mostly wore really old jeans and ski sweaters.
I get "the look" every time I go to the bank and the rep realizes I'm related to my MIL. She's know there for having an overdrawn account and for being bad with money. I like seeing the look on their faces when they pull up my accounts.
I also get "the look" anytime the topic of investing comes up. People seem surprised that I know what I'm talking about. This one irritates me.
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I usually get "The Look" for doing something that other people consider to be cheap, not because they're surprised I have money. I got a serious dose of "Look" from one of those sample people in the supermarket. She gave me a coupon for a brand of standard milk, like $1 off or something, and was shocked when I went for my usual brand that STILL worked out 5cents cheaper. She couldn't seem to understand why 5 cents cheaper overall was better than $1 off on one.....
Note to add that milk in NZ is centrally processed. It all comes out of the same frickin vat and you're really only paying for packaging and branding differences if you buy standard milk and not the bells and whistles added calcium and all that jazz.
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We've been in our current home for 18 years and it was a lot of house for when we bought it as 29-year-olds. It's still a lot of house, which is why we're looking to downsize.
I do a lot of my own yardwork and, especially in those early years, solicitors and other folks pulling into the driveway would ask if I knew when the owner of the house would be back.
I always tell them I have no idea. I'm just the yard guy.
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My bank don't know my net worth as things get pulled out of there pretty sharpish .
Most of my money disappears into pension accounts even before it's transferred to them by my employer.
I dress kinda messy , cheap cotton t-shirts from superstores all of which have holes on the left of my chest where the cat likes to paw me , track pants or chino type shorts that are all a bit oil stained or have a few holes in places, I tend to wear sneakers till the soles fall off and an old battered gardening hat if the sun is shining . I shave my head with clippers so that looks kinda cheap.
The only time i ever get the look is when i get into my 44 year old Rolls Royce , surprisingly cheap to run as it qualifies in the uk as historic so it's road tax free, MOT is easy going and the insurance is cheap as i only do 2000 miles a year on average. Because i'm an engineer i can deal with all the maintenance and complexity a 44 year old car can throw at me and there is no depreciation.
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I had a paper route growing up and saved up my earnings in a credit union account in my home town. I went to undergrad and law school on scholarships, and lived off of what I made at summer jobs and part-time school jobs, using a different bank account. I think I dipped into my paper route money once or twice when I was in undergrad, but for the most part it was my emergency stash that I never touched.
When I graduated from law school and was about to move across the country for a new job, I decided to buy a car to use for the trip and afterwards. The friend who helped me with this asked what my budget was, and I said $5,000, which was about what I could afford from my normal bank account. At the end of the first day of car-hunting, he asked if I could possibly bump my budget up into the $6-10K range so I could get something more reliable than the clunkers we'd been looking at so far. He suggested that maybe I should look into getting a car loan. And that's when I remembered my paper route money and realized that this would probably be a good time to use a bit of my emergency stash. So I told him, "Oh, actually, I just remembered that I've got $5000 more than I thought I did, so that should be fine."
I definitely got a Look for that. I guess most people don't just forget about half their net worth, especially when they're living on an extreme shoestring budget.
[In case anyone wants to know the rest of the story, we found a good high-mileage car for $6200, and I'm still using it eleven years later.]
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I get looks all the time for various reasons. I wish people would mind their own business. Anyways most recently I was having my house inspected to be certified to rent a room in my house. The inspector asked where the owner is and I said that's me. Got the look. I guess most people believe whatever they see on tv, people who do this, look like this. And sexism too obviously. Women were not allowed to have mortgages until about 30 years ago. You had to find a man to cosign.
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I'm 40 years old, apparently young-looking for my age, and working a moderately-paid but impressive-sounding job. We're not client-facing in this office so there is no dress code expectation... I'm generally in jeans and a (nice) T-shirt and comfy shoes. I'm always having people I meet outside of work assume I'm a student. I definitely get a 'look' when I laugh and say, no, actually I'm a 40-year-old executive at a national magazine publisher. Imagine what they'd say if they knew I had almost $300k NW in liquid assets ;-)
I always tell them I have no idea. I'm just the yard guy.
I don't think it happens so much now that he's in his 70s, but my dad (multi-million NW, low/mid six figure job, million-dollar house) has always done his own yardwork, and I'm sure he got a lot of Looks :-)
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The only time i ever get the look is when i get into my 44 year old Rolls Royce , surprisingly cheap to run as it qualifies in the uk as historic so it's road tax free, MOT is easy going and the insurance is cheap as i only do 2000 miles a year on average. Because i'm an engineer i can deal with all the maintenance and complexity a 44 year old car can throw at me and there is no depreciation.
+1
I like this.
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Yeah, I notice I get treated very differently by some people depending on what I'm wearing....
I now use this to my advantage, as I care less and less about appearances.....it's amazing how many people treat me as if I'm poor.
For example, I like the standing tickets at the opera, they are a bargain at around £15, and the same view as the £190 seats you stand behind. Two of the last three times I've been standing there, I've scored a free program from someone who obviously has some of package with programs included and didn't want them to go to waste.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYXczDB8VrY
Sorry
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This makes me laugh because I had a guy install a new hot water heater and he was so impressed with my condo which I have nicely furnished (I buy some off Craigslist but some I buy new and keep for decades). I keep my place immaculate. He asked me all kinds of questions about if I own it and if I live alone and then he was like damn it's really hot when a lady has it together. It would have been creepy but he was so nice and genuine.
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Haha, banks.
I once walked into the bank with two $14,000 checks to deposit, and the teller asked if I wanted that in cash. I just said no thanks, deposit please, and she looked down at the checks again and realized there were more zeros than she had initially noticed.
Another person at the bank told me it probably wasn't worth the fee to wire "$200" to the escrow company to buy my house. I corrected him: "No, it says on the paper work there, $200,000."
I'm in my late 30s, have been told I look young for my age, and wore a sundress to the bank both times.
I also get the look when I tell people at work that I plan to retire in 2.5 years. The most common questions are "What are you going to do?" (Whatever the hell I want) and "What are you going to live on?" (Investments) The "investments" answer surprises people; I think they assume I have a trust fund or a rich husband or something.
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I get The Look a lot, and I'm not even wealthy yet!
I'm in my late twenties and on my days off I can probably pass for early twenties. I have long blonde hair, no kids in tow and dress casually and without makeup when I can.
When my partner and I were buying a house a few years back, a lot of sales and bank people behaved quite patronizing and sometimes downright mean to me. They thought I was either getting a house from the bank of mum and dad or was taking advantage of a rich husband. In fact it was neither: just hard work from two sides. I was temporarily without a job, but brought in a lot of savings and legal knowledge. As I was between jobs at that point, I was the contact person for the bank during the buying process. They would routinely forward every e-mail I sent to them to my partner to check if he knew what crazy stuff I was asking for this time. Needless to say we switched banks. That first bank also nearly interrogated to find out where the money from our downpayment came from. Savings wasn't an adequate answer. In their mind it was absolutely impossible for two mid-twenties kids who don't even look professional to be able to save one gross yearly income as a downpayment. Since my partner has wild hair and a beard I'm sure they thought it was crime related.
The second bank was very commercial and was only interested in fixing us a mortgage asap. Since we had the knowledge and limited time, this was ideal for us, we just disregarded the bad overall financial advice they gave us. ( A few of those are post-worthy in themselves: like that we definitely needed expensive travel insurance, even if we weren't planning on travelling for a while because we just bought a fixer upper. Because you just might decide to travel tomorrow and then you'll be left without insurance. You can't plan life, it happens to you, so you definitely need to be covered by travel insurance always, just in case).
I'm always conscious that people perceive me as poor because I don't have a car and live in a small house in a 'bad' neighbourhood. The area we live in is actually very convenient for us and not dangerous at all - in fact, even a bike theft is rare. It has a bad reputation because it's a working class neighbourhood, but we were born and bred in areas like these and we feel right at home here. Sometimes we slip up with neighbours though, and get The Look from them, because despite having modest jobs and living in this house, we're not living paycheck to paycheck. We try to avoid showing off that we have money.
Because I live under these circumstances, my boss feels sorry for me and gives me a big raise every year. I need to pretend to him that I really need this job and the yearly pay rise, because he's known to stop giving them once he feels you're financially comfortable. So I don't tell him that I could live off half of my modest paycheck if I had to and invest all the extra money I get from him. My family never knows what to make of our financial situation either. On one hand, they know we're doing all right, because I tell them so they don't have to worry. On the other hand they try to give us things and small sums in cash because they think we're going without. While I like to get used stuff so I don't have to buy new, I don't want them to feel they have to give me anything, because they don't. And they shouldn't take pity on us because we take the train because we choose to.
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In our old house, which was way too big for my DH and I, a guy in a suit knocked on the door and asked for the owner of the house when I answered, thinking that it must have been my parents house. When I told him that I was the owner, his face was a little...scrunched. Then he went on about some speech about real estate in the area and was looking for potential sellers, to which I said, 'no thanks,' and shut the door in his face.
We also got it when we went to the car dealership. Car dealers are absolutely awful with this stuff.
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Reminds me of the phrase from the Janis Ian song: They "gaze at you in dull surprise."
Last time I got that Look was when I was at the bank and deposited a check for $11,000. The teller asked if I knew that the check deposit wouldn't clear for several days, and I replied that I was fine with that. She seemed surprised that I wasn't upset - guess they're used to customers demanding instant cash.
Before that I got the Look when I happened to mention to a VP and several directors at my megacorp job that I had scored a foreclosure house for $29,000 cash during the 2011 housing crunch. I imagine they don't think that a regular staff person would a) have that cash available and b) use it for snapping up foreclosure properties.
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When I came to clean my house before moving in, I caught my neighbor trying to break into my backyard (supposedly to clean up the dead trees left by the previous owner that were poking into their yard). She brought her son over for introduction and asked if I was the "cleaning girl." When I told her I'm the new owner, she gave me "the look." I was wearing the same things she were wearing too, in t-shirt and workout pants.
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Actually a Non-look. dressed in black leather biker jacket, t-shirt etc. Needed to get 100k ( prefer to remember it as 100 large, in mafioso terms) to investments. As I remember, I asked for it as a cashiers check,and was only asked for the credit union's non photo ID card.
The Look:
Bought my second ever car with a debit card.
"financing? - no, run the card" repeat for 15 minutes. Almost walked.
Wish I had bought paper cash or gold for the entertainment, this may be my last car.
15k, really? Price of a Nissan Cube, got 2000 Porsche in 2011. Works fine, even insnow,still have same tires.
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It happens a bit too often to DW and me. We just purchased a house and they didn't believe that we had a 20% down payment as a young couple. We were asked at least 10 times where the gift money/inheritance came from. My wife literally made a "money tree" to show where it all came from to get things rolling so that we can close soon.
Our realtor and lenders did not understand why we want such a small house (3/2 and 1600sq ft), which we do not feel is small at all. They continually badgered us to look at more expensive homes because we were pre-approved for twice the amount of home we were looking for (looking for 150k ish and approved for 300k+). They even suggested paying a smaller down payment and paying PMI because it's 'not that expensive'.
Our lender waited to pull our credit and told us multiple times that the rate gets higher if our credit is below 750, assuming that no one in their 20's has a decent credit score. We told him we have no debt and great credit, and when he finally pulled the scores he did a double take.
Even this week my nursing school didn't understand that I wanted to pay cash for my semester of classes and offered multiple payment plans and financing options through private lenders. They said, "no one actually pays for their own school anymore".
I also get the opposite looks from people that I work with because I insist on driving my old 1990's stick shift pickup when I go to work while they all drive expensive, leased vehicles. Most of them are fellow students in their medical residencies already spending like they are full MD's, forgetting that they have nearly $400k of loans to pay off when they finish.
The looks I give are probably more noticeable than the ones I get. So many smart people and so many dumb choices.
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When I get the look..
1) When I show up to peoples houses that want to learn how to be FI'd.. In my '99 Dodge Neon that cost $350.
2) The two times when the car salesperson asks "and how are we financing this?".. .. Checkbook..:)
3) The best one.. I show up at the bank.. balloons and streamers everywhere (uh-oh).. I dodge the sales people get to the counter to talk to a long time employee who is clearly unimpressed with the fake party atmosphere to sell their loans etc. I say, yeah its times like these i'm glad I paid off the mortgage.. The sales gal realises I dodged her and overheard "mortgage"..
"Oh you need a mortgage?.."
Cindy (my friend) pipes up.. "oh no, Exflyboy is one of my heros he's paid his off".. Dumbfounded the sales gal looks at me and says ..
"Wow".. Yes I knew I wanted to retire early so I paid it off..
"Oh yes when do expect to retire?".. Oh about 4 years ago... The LOOK....:)
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I'm in my fifties and I still get the look.
When we bought our house (corporate relocation) our realtor said "Could you swing a 10K deposit?". when I said 'yep' we got the look.
Got the look again when we didn't have the offer conditioned on financing.
Last time we bought a car (2008), I got the look twice as well. First when I said I was paying cash. Second when I showed up with 2 bank drafts (one from my bank and one from my broker).
I find it amazing that people my age still finance cars and other smallish purchases.
My new garage however, does not give me the look. I say, 'well fixing it is a lot cheaper than buying a new one.' Service manager says 'yep'. Damn it's good to find sensible people.
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I find it amazing that people my age (fifties) still finance cars and other smallish purchases.
Worse than millennials. Because by that age those people really should know better.
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It happens a bit too often to DW and me. We just purchased a house and they didn't believe that we had a 20% down payment as a young couple. We were asked at least 10 times where the gift money/inheritance came from. My wife literally made a "money tree" to show where it all came from to get things rolling so that we can close soon.
This is not new, my wife and I bought a home in the eighties and after presenting all the paperwork they ask for, the came back and ask for three more months of banking records. They didn't believe we saved the money and were trying to find a record that someone gave us a lump sum. No, we saved it.
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Another woman in a male dominated field although not IT. Yup I get "the look" especially with work intros.
I'm sure I'll get the look when I pull out my checkbook for my current planned moderate renovations on the new to me house I just bought. Nope it won't be a draw on a HELOC account or anything. (I might still use a credit card as the cash discount is only 2%, I'm debating.)
ETA: I don't have kids, I look younger than my years so get the look for that as well. Um, I can soon have a full fledged midlife crisis, while not old by any standards I'm not young anymore. Oh my midlife crisis might be RE at this rate. My most recent on my project house
Seller's Lawyer: Oh are you a first time home buyer?
Me: Nope it's my 4th home (I move for work and work takes care of the transaction costs which allows me to buy even for shorter periods of times.)
Seller's Lawyer looks slightly confused.
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The look followed by accusations and finally anger. The worst time was when my husband and I paid cash for our house. The title company didn't believe us and proceeded to ask us who gave us the cash and said "normally people come in bragging and I find out that grandpa loaned them the money." See, people our age just don't have that kind of cash and apparently making a cash transaction is bragging. Well, it was a depressed housing market and we took advantage of a property that was days before foreclosure. Our offer was accepted over several higher offers because there was no time to deal with financing from the other potential buyers. The bank jumped on the cash offer. We got a DEAL on that house so that man can think I'm a liar all he wants.
It's not the title company's damned business where you got the money.
A bank who is loaning you money? Sure.
A title company? Tell them to f* off and ask to speak to their manager.
If they are the owner and there's no time to do business elsewhere, write a complaint to the various regulatory and professional agencies.
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I definitely got the look when I bought and moved into my first house at age 26. When I met a neighbor down the street he asked what my parents did. Confused why he was asking, I just answered him even though they live in another state. Then he mentioned that my house had been for sale recently. I looked at him blankly and said "yes, I know... I bought it!" Then it was his turn to look blankly at me and then said "oh... I thought you were in high school..."
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Yep, every time I go to the bank.
The biggest look I got was when I went to the bank at 23 in short denim cutoffs, sandals, and a white tank top and they saw $20k in my savings account in addition to the $5k I was depositing that day (I was just starting to learn about investing, which is why I had so much in one place, facepalm).
They immediately took me to a private office and tried to sell me on all these different investments. I let them convert my savings into a money market account, but told them I didn't want anything else because I already had investments planned and would be moving that money soon. Haha, they were so floored, it was like something short circuited in their brains.
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I've gotten "the look" so many times, I almost don't notice anymore.
Female, started programming in Jr. High. Work in male dominated field (former electrician, now a related but different field). Got pregnant in high school (then got married shortly after). Bought house young (I was 19, then husband was 20, money came from what I earned as a kid delivering the newspaper, through jobs in high school). Ex left when I was 22. Bought current house when I was 26(?) Sent my son to a private school, where I was only one of two single moms (the other's parents were paying for her kid to go there) and one of very few working moms. Many of those families struggled to pay the tuition, while I was asking if I could get a discount for paying it in one lump sum at the beginning of the year.
Put myself through an associates degree while working 30+ hours a week. Through it all, I have been a saver, lived frugally, etc, etc. I've even gone on some amazing vacations (including several trips to Europe, the most recent was for 5 weeks). People are shocked when they find out I have always paid a credit card balance in full (except when I had one with 0% interest, then I would just pay it in full before the interest kicked in.)
I look young, my son looks old, so I get some really confused looks when he is with me.
I also do a lot of my own repairs. The guy at the nearby hardware store has pretty much stopped questioning me when I need some parts/tools, and will just help me find them. I still threw him though when we found that a tool I wanted didn't exist (or at least, he'd never heard of one and they didn't have any), and I made the comment "looks like I'll have to make it myself."
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I work from home and most of the time I can control my work schedule. When my son was in pre-K, I sometime went to pick him up in the afternoon. The parents, mostly moms, and grandparents would all line up in front of the class. The first few times I pick him up, with my un-shaved face, t-shirt, shorts and sandals, everyone were giving me the look. Does this guy have a job or he just stay at home all day lol...
Another time I got the look was years ago when I tried to buy a car for my wife at dealership. They had the car that she wanted. I was asked if I need financing, and I said nope. While inside the office I notice they sent someone to check out my current car. Someone was looking into the windows of my car, they probably did not realize I was watching them. I drove an old Oldsmobile, so I probably was not their typical customer. They then gave me a run around, so I left. We ended up buying the same car somewhere else, which turn out to be several grand cheaper, so winning! I told my wife, I really wanted to drive her car to that dealership and show it off to that dumb salesman.
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I got The Look from a friend who was asking for advice after getting her first ever credit card. She asked me how soon I thought she could ask for an increase in her credit limit. I casually said, "Oh, the credit card company will increase it automatically as long as you always pay the bill in full and on time. That's how I got to have a credit limit of _____."
Turns out her own credit limit was about 10% of mine...
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Rarely any more, since most of my social circle knows I'm retired early. My money is mostly at Vanguard and they're not impressed with my stash. The local bank where I sometimes deposit checks and I have an understanding that I like to keep a low profile; I've made it a point to get to know the branch manager in case I ever need a favor, and she's very professional and just takes care of business. Even if I don't get Looks, it's almost more fun for me to bop around town in jeans and a ratty sweatshirt and be in Stealth Wealth mode. I find the surreality of it to be enjoyable, although after two years or so I'm mostly used to it. That is, it doesn't seem weird to not have to go to work.
Every so often I'll run across someone new, and since I'm not shy about my FIRE status, I usually get the "You're too young to retire!" or "Good for you!" But I'm pretty matter of fact and don't even check to see if they're giving me a Look. It's more like a flowchart for me: If they're surprised, then explain briefly. If they seem envious or interested, then encourage them and offer a few generic pointers. If they seem doubtful, ignore their doubt and go on with my life; I don't care if they believe me as I believe myself.
Sometimes if I want a Look from someone I'll drop some fact about myself that is surprising, but nobody, not even my family, knows my financial status. I learned from my ex that it is easier to keep that info to myself, especially from my parents, so they would stop giving me advice and hovering and worrying over (at that point our) status. Even after the divorce it seemed like a good idea so I keep doing it. So I'll mention that I played the bagpipes for 20 years, or I'll mention that I've donated 33 gallons of blood products to the Red Cross, or completed an Oly distance triathlon, or whatever. Now that I think about it, doing this only gets me a Look maybe a third of the time. Oh well.
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I got "The Look" over the phone the other day.
We have been renting in the 'fancy' area of town for the last few years (the rent was a good deal). The owner has decided to sell and for us to rent anywhere else would be a 20% increase on what we are currently paying. So, we're in the process of buying a little place on the other side of town (costing 25% less than the place we are currently in is selling for).
One of our friends said to make sure the people living there are the moment remove their burnt out cars from the front before they leave - really it isn't that bad!
Anyway, the other day the pest inspector called to give me his report verbally before sending it through. He was giving me all the info, etc and it was all going well. Then I asked how often the current owner (a landlord) had been getting it inspected. He said every three years, that the cost could be claimed on your taxes, and that he could do a deal for us so we could also claim the cost of getting our 'fancy' house inspected and claim that against the investment property, too. It was then I realised he thought we were purchasing as an investment. "oh no, we plan to move in to that house", I said. He was completely shocked that someone would move from the 'fancy' part of town into our new purchase, but I think it will be just right for us.
The other best time we've gotten "The Look" was when my husband was haggling hard for our 'new' car. He was calling between two dealers - one interstate, and the other a 10 hour drive from us. When he decided he had the best deal we were going to get they said they would transfer his call to their finance department. "No need", he replied. "We will send the full amount through to your bank account". They were so cut to miss out on the loan interest they tried to charge us for the shipping, but we held our ground and got it for no extra.
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I find it amazing that people my age (fifties) still finance cars and other smallish purchases.
We're in our sixties, and it's even more amazing the number of people our age that have to finance everything. We've got friends still financing appliances, cars, etc. We just had a new furnace/a/c installed. Rep started offering us payment terms, asking if we wanted it added to our monthly gas bill, etc. She was sort of stunned when we just said we'd pay for it all at once. Oh, and since they allow you to put it on a credit card, we'd do that too for the cash back. She seemed genuinely surprised that we had the money, AND had the credit limit on our cards (which of course are always paid in full monthly). Said in the last 50 furnace installations they had done, no one paid in full right away. 0_0
Same thing when we bought the car 3 years ago. Salesman was shocked when we said we'd bring in a certified cheque or bankdraft, whatever he preferred. He seemed really deflated he didn't get to give us the financing spiel.
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Posting to follow. This has to be one of my favorite threads ever. :)
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Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
His face scrunched up and he gave me "The Look" - as though he wanted to ask "How can that be? That does not fit into my understanding of reality, that a single, non-wealthy-appearing woman owns a very expensive piece of real estate."
I have gotten "The Look" at other times also. I usually get it when I mention that I own a condo, but I have also gotten it when I mention I am a computer programmer - somehow I do not fit into people's stereotypical vision of what a computer programmer looks like (i.e. young and male and high-salaried).
Does anyone else get "The Look"? I have a very low-key appearance and do not flaunt my wealth, educational, or career accomplishments in any way, which seems to lead strangers to conclude that I am not wealthy or successful.
After grad school, I got my first job in Florida. Part of the reason for the move was because of the housing market crash. I was in a hurry to buy a house before prices started going up. My parents also owned a vacation home near the University, so I was able to live at my parents house rent free for 6 months to save up for a down payment.
I started the job in August 2011 and closed on the home in January 2012. Most of my co-workers were cool with it and happy for me. However, one person did give me, "the look". Part of it was because they were higher ranking than me and didn't own a home. I guess it's not common for someone to buy a house during their first year out of grad school.
What many of them also didn't know was that it was actually house #2. House #1 was a rental that I bought in grad school. If I told my co-workers it was actually house #2 they probably would have shit themselves.
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Said in the last 50 furnace installations they had done, no one paid in full right away. 0_0
Reminds me of our HVAC replacement a couple years ago. We signed the contract and they did the install without ever asking how we were going to pay. I didn't think too much of it while I was waiting to be billed. We'd made the deal directly through the owner of the company (he only works a few hours here and there these days, doing sales calls). I didn't say anything specifically about out situation, but I suppose he figured us out looking back at it now. The accounting department there, not so much. We finally got the bill and I got "the look" from both people there when I walked over (in my jeans and t-shirt) to their shop and wrote a check for the full amount the same day we finally received the bill...
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Oooh.. "the look."
I made the mistake and let slip a financial comment to my MIL..
Backstory -- about 8 years before, I had decided to 100% stop mentioning money in any way to MIL, because she would feel free to talk about how much she was buying / giving my DH's sister... and a lot of justification was because she had made up in her mind that she had provided X for us years before (not). Never mind that we were frugal, were about 10 years older, and did not have half the stuff SIL had... I finally said to her straight "I get stressed out when we talk about money and SIL, as long as you are happy with what you give her, and she doesn't ask us for money, we don't need to know"... It worked like a charm.
So, my slip... we bought a replacement car, a Toyota Highlander, about 8 years old. I let slip that I was glad to pay cash because our tax return covered it. She said something about having never seen a tax return that large in her life, and I mentioned something about RRSP's....
and got "the look". Apparently it is impossible to buy a car with money from a tax return, or to pay cash for a car before you are 50.
Ah, well, I realized after, that FIL always had a large work pension and would have come straight off his paycheque, and taxes reduced immediately instead of at tax return time.. AND that they had never bought a used car before, so our purchase was likely 1/5 the cost of SIL's new minivan bought the same year.
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Not necessarily mustachian, but early 40s single female, who is a frequent business traveler and has platinum status w/American Airlines. Solely b/c of said job. My job frequent includes in all weather conditions typically in a heavy manufacturing setting. . I'm often in jeans, steel toe boots and sometimes a bit dirty. I'll change my clothes if I'm like gross -- but definitely sometimes a bit dusty compared to the majority of my frequent flier peers. Preferred status on American allows one to board in an earlier boarding group and I swear I get double takes in my outfits.
Meh, they can all eat my steel toe dust.
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Had a couple of hundred thousand dollars in our bank account from selling a house. Hadn't moved it over to Vanguard yet.
I don't dress up on the weekends, particularly when I'll be working on refurbishing rental properties. Then I'm in a painted-on t-shirt and jeans.
I went to the bank to get some cash and deposit some checks. The teller did a double-take when the compared my appearance with my bank account balance!
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One person at work asked me how our rental property business was going and how many houses we had. Some other folks were there.
"Oh, we have 5 houses. Plus the one we live in, too."
That was a surprise to a number of folks.
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I remembered another from a couple weeks back.
I was working in my classroom the week before school starting, and the new Axa rep comes into my room to introduce himself (why Axa can wander the halls but no one else can I will never know). He says, "Hi. My name is so and so, and I'd like to talk to you about your 403b."
My response, " Your from Axa, right? I left Axa a few years ago for a feuciary. Unless you have a new 403b with rates under .4 percent, I'm not going to be interested. Thanks for stopping in."
He really had no idea what to do with me. I'm not sure he'd ever met a teacher who knew all of the options available.
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My favorite "the look" was a good bit different.
We had been looking to upgrade our home to one that would better meet our needs once we retired from our day jobs.
Every time we spotted one we would note it down and keep track of them. Some were on the market at crazy-high prices (at least by our standards) and others weren't on the market at all. But they might be, and we were in no hurry.
We were looking for a great house for us at a great deal and willing to be patient.
About the time my mom got very ill (and I had to take a lot of time off from work to look after her), one of the houses we had been monitoring for several years came back on the market. But this time, it was now a lot lower. I felt, based on what I had been learning about buying property for the rental market, that they would be willing to go even lower, even down to what we were willing to pay for the property.
I wanted to get a mortgage but, with all the travel out of town to visit my mom in the hospital, I needed a mortgage broker who would go out of their way to work with us. Our real estate broker (we had used her for 3 houses already) put us in charge with a local broker would would work off hours so we could meet with him.
I went by his office to check the report from the estimator. He pulled up our offer for $227,400 and then opened up the estimate.
He did a triple-take and exclaimed, "Did you STEAL this!!??"
Our purchase price had come in about $97,000 below the property value from the estimator.
Score!
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My favorite one was when I was doing mandatory transition briefings when I retired from the Army (at 45) and was asked "What salary do you need to make to maintain your lifestyle in retirement?"
I replied "zero dollars." Got a look.
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The last memorable time I got the look was at my credit union. I went in to check on a heloc, just because. I was dressed in yard work clothes, pretty disheveled. The loan officer, I assume, was prob thinking that I was up to my nose in debt, judging by her tone and body language. We started going through the process, her asking the normal finance questions. Do you have any debt? Nope. What about your house? Paid for. Wife? Kids? Ex-wife? No, no, no. So you have no debt at all....? Nope. She just sat and stared at me. Her: Well, this should be an easy approval process.
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I am told I look young for my age. When I was about 27 a sales person knocked on the door and I answered and the guy said "is your mum or dad at home".... errr... this is my house...
I cant imagine how young I looked when I bought my first place when I was 21!
My wife also had "the look" from a heating engineer, he said that the boiler needed work and she needed to ring the landlord to check what he wanted to do...
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Got the look when I went to HR to request that 100% of my paycheck be put into a retirement account. I don't want any of it taxed nor to have any of it hit my checking account. They think I'm crazy...
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I don't really get "the look" since everyone already assumes I'm rich because of my job. It's a blessing and a curse, I suppose. If I get caught doing "rich people stuff," it only seems to reinforce other people's preconceived notions about people in my line of work.
For example, take this other person's experience when buying a house:
That first bank also nearly interrogated to find out where the money from our downpayment came from. Savings wasn't an adequate answer. In their mind it was absolutely impossible for two mid-twenties kids who don't even look professional to be able to save one gross yearly income as a downpayment. Since my partner has wild hair and a beard I'm sure they thought it was crime related.
Back when I bought my condo, none of the realtors I worked with seemed to bat an eye despite me being in my early 20's and wanting to buy a condo with cash. Amusingly, my realtor ended up driving me around the city to see said condos because I didn't have a car. In fact, he was annoyingly eager to show me places that were as much as triple the price range that I was looking for. I had to keep reminding him that no, I was not interested in homes that expensive. He didn't even ask me for proof of assets until I made my first offer, and was fine with just a simple screenshot of my Vanguard account!
Before the closing, I rode my Razor scooter into the bank as a 23 year old guy wearing a T-shirt and jeans, with messy hair to boot. I sat down with a banker and asked for a cashier's check for a very precise number of approximately $150,000. She looked at me and was like, oh, you must be buying a house! And I'm like, yep. It was almost like she had to deal with people like me every day.
I'm pretty sure that my employment combined with the demographics of my city prevent me from getting the responses of others in this thread.
On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
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I find it amazing that people my age still finance cars and other smallish purchases.
I had the money to outright buy our most recent car, but they offered me 0% financing for four years vs 500$ off the purchase price for paying in cash. I financed because it would have been silly not to. :P
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I find it amazing that people my age still finance cars and other smallish purchases.
I had the money to outright buy our most recent car, but they offered me 0% financing for four years vs 500$ off the purchase price for paying in cash. I financed because it would have been silly not to. :P
Walk me through the math on this one...I assume its because you could then invest that cash and make way more than $500 over the next x amount of years (loan term).
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I find it amazing that people my age still finance cars and other smallish purchases.
I had the money to outright buy our most recent car, but they offered me 0% financing for four years vs 500$ off the purchase price for paying in cash. I financed because it would have been silly not to. :P
Walk me through the math on this one...I assume its because you could then invest that cash and make way more than $500 over the next x amount of years (loan term).
12,000 up front gives you 500$ off
total cost of car - 11, 500$ . . . zero risk.
or
12,000 invested in a fixed interest GIC at 3% compounded annually gives you 1506.10$ of free money
total cost of car - 10493.89$ . . . zero risk.
Seems silly to take the 500$ when I can get 1500$ off instead.
Yes, you could also invest the money in the market . . . but since your withdrawal date is so soon it's possible that you'll have to pull the money out at a bad time. You would probably be likely to make more money, but have to accept risk that you'll lose money by needing to withdraw at a bad time.)
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I get it occasionally when I tell people I'm 52. I like that "look" (I figure sooner or later Father Time will catch up to me and I won't get in anymore).
When they ask what my secret is I tell them without hesitation -- "no kids." ;-)
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12,000 up front gives you 500$ off
total cost of car - 11, 500$ . . . zero risk.
or
12,000 invested in a fixed interest GIC at 3% compounded annually gives you 1506.10$ of free money
total cost of car - 10493.89$ . . . zero risk.
Seems silly to take the 500$ when I can get 1500$ off instead.
Two problems with that I'm afraid. You have assumed that the amount invested is 12,000 when it would only be 11,500; and you have assumed that you don't pay any lease payments until the end of the 4 years. If you model it with payments across the 4 years then you end up only $200 better off than taking the discount, not $1,000 better. And that assumes that you can get a risk-free 3% return on all the money - I don't know what the US market is like, but in the UK you'd be getting much less than that on money that was being withdrawn in the first year or two.
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Why does the painter care whether you own your home?
Because if you're a renter he can cut corners that he couldn't with the owner standing over his shoulder.
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I've always looked young for my age (or at least used to, not so sure nowadays) and usually wear shorts and a t-shirt since I work from home. Nearly every person that comes to do work on our house gives me a look when I answer the door. After realizing I am the owner they ask, usually with a still skeptical look on their face, "what is it you say you do for a living?" It also happens every time I get a shuttle ride from the car mechanic after dropping off a decade old car for repairs.
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12,000 up front gives you 500$ off
total cost of car - 11, 500$ . . . zero risk.
or
12,000 invested in a fixed interest GIC at 3% compounded annually gives you 1506.10$ of free money
total cost of car - 10493.89$ . . . zero risk.
Seems silly to take the 500$ when I can get 1500$ off instead.
Two problems with that I'm afraid. You have assumed that the amount invested is 12,000 when it would only be 11,500; and you have assumed that you don't pay any lease payments until the end of the 4 years. If you model it with payments across the 4 years then you end up only $200 better off than taking the discount, not $1,000 better.
That's not quite right either. Either you assume $12,000 invested and then compare the interest with the $500 discount to see which is better (like GuitarStv did)(ignoring inflation), or you assume $11,500 invested and don't subtract anything from the interest. You can't both assume $11,500 invested and then subtract an additional $500 from the interest.
I agree 100% about the payments though, not all $12,000 is going to be "invested" the whole 4 years; you have to make those payments somehow and if it's not coming out of your investment account then it's coming out of money that you would have otherwise kept.
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The look followed by accusations and finally anger. The worst time was when my husband and I paid cash for our house. The title company didn't believe us and proceeded to ask us who gave us the cash and said "normally people come in bragging and I find out that grandpa loaned them the money." See, people our age just don't have that kind of cash and apparently making a cash transaction is bragging. Well, it was a depressed housing market and we took advantage of a property that was days before foreclosure. Our offer was accepted over several higher offers because there was no time to deal with financing from the other potential buyers. The bank jumped on the cash offer. We got a DEAL on that house so that man can think I'm a liar all he wants.
It's not the title company's damned business where you got the money.
A bank who is loaning you money? Sure.
A title company? Tell them to f* off and ask to speak to their manager.
If they are the owner and there's no time to do business elsewhere, write a complaint to the various regulatory and professional agencies.
If there is a loan for the money, the title company does need to know because they are guaranteeing that there are no liens nor would there be any liens on the property. A loan for the purchase of the property may in fact create a lien, or at least the possibility for a lean. This is why banks will often interrogate you about where the cash comes from, especially if it is deposited within the last 6 months or so. There are nice ways to do this and rude ways to do it, but both these folks are just doing their due diligence as it relates to the product or service they are providing.
I get the look but in the other direction. I'm a VP and I drive an 07 economy car. Occasionally I'll take my staff out for lunch and any time I drive I get the eye rolls about my car. I usually just talk about wanting to be sure I have enough to pay for my kids college and bring up the tuition to a local private school and then say "hopefully they'll get some scholarships!" Otherwise, I'm fairly regularly given the eye-roll by those that know my title and then see my car.
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12,000 up front gives you 500$ off
total cost of car - 11, 500$ . . . zero risk.
or
12,000 invested in a fixed interest GIC at 3% compounded annually gives you 1506.10$ of free money
total cost of car - 10493.89$ . . . zero risk.
Seems silly to take the 500$ when I can get 1500$ off instead.
Two problems with that I'm afraid. You have assumed that the amount invested is 12,000 when it would only be 11,500; and you have assumed that you don't pay any lease payments until the end of the 4 years. If you model it with payments across the 4 years then you end up only $200 better off than taking the discount, not $1,000 better.
That's not quite right either. Either you assume $12,000 invested and then compare the interest with the $500 discount to see which is better (like GuitarStv did)(ignoring inflation), or you assume $11,500 invested and don't subtract anything from the interest. You can't both assume $11,500 invested and then subtract an additional $500 from the interest.
I agree 100% about the payments though, not all $12,000 is going to be "invested" the whole 4 years; you have to make those payments somehow and if it's not coming out of your investment account then it's coming out of money that you would have otherwise kept.
I come up with $792.58 if you invest at a guaranteed 3% compounding monthly vs. paying cash and investing $500 which would be $563.66 after 4 years at 3%. By accepting financing and investing you come out +$228.92.
Is there a good formula for this question in Excel?
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Actually, it's making you around $763 because you have to spend $250 a month out of that $12,000 to pay off your loan.
So you're really only coming out about $263 ahead. You can't collect interest on the money you withdraw to pay down the loan.
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12,000 up front gives you 500$ off
total cost of car - 11, 500$ . . . zero risk.
or
12,000 invested in a fixed interest GIC at 3% compounded annually gives you 1506.10$ of free money
total cost of car - 10493.89$ . . . zero risk.
Seems silly to take the 500$ when I can get 1500$ off instead.
Two problems with that I'm afraid. You have assumed that the amount invested is 12,000 when it would only be 11,500; and you have assumed that you don't pay any lease payments until the end of the 4 years. If you model it with payments across the 4 years then you end up only $200 better off than taking the discount, not $1,000 better.
That's not quite right either. Either you assume $12,000 invested and then compare the interest with the $500 discount to see which is better (like GuitarStv did)(ignoring inflation), or you assume $11,500 invested and don't subtract anything from the interest. You can't both assume $11,500 invested and then subtract an additional $500 from the interest.
I agree 100% about the payments though, not all $12,000 is going to be "invested" the whole 4 years; you have to make those payments somehow and if it's not coming out of your investment account then it's coming out of money that you would have otherwise kept.
I come up with $792.58 if you invest at a guaranteed 3% compounding monthly vs. paying cash and investing $500 which would be $563.66 after 4 years at 3%. By accepting financing and investing you come out +$228.92.
Is there a good formula for this question in Excel?
Okay, if you want a more exact answer, I've worked it out assuming interest is paid monthly. 0.24663% per month compound is the same as 3% pa compound. If you look at actual cashflows, then at the start of the 4 year period OP either hands over $11,500 as a full payment, or hands over $250 as the first monthly lease payment. The difference in cashflow is $11,250 so that's how much they get to put in the bank. At the end of the first month that has earned $27.75 in interest, but now they make a $250 repayment so they have $11,027.75 left. Next month they earn $27.20 and pay off $250 and so on. At the end of the 4 years the car is paid off and they have a profit of $188.99 left sitting in the account - assuming they have found a saving account that pays 3% pa and lets you make 12 penalty-free withdrawals a year.
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Interesting break down on the car loan question. Thank you everyone! I guess I was thinking that the money would be invested for the long term and therefore didn't take into account the short term period.
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I withdrew cash for a down payment (didn't get a cashier's check because I was stupid then) when I was 20, and as the (young but slightly older than me at the time) teller was getting the cash together we were chit chatting and his head about exploded when I said it was for a house.
Coworker was marveling at my buying a house at 24, and then gave me a "look" and got really quiet when I said it was house #2, and I had just paid off #1 and was keeping it as a rental.
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12,000 up front gives you 500$ off
total cost of car - 11, 500$ . . . zero risk.
or
12,000 invested in a fixed interest GIC at 3% compounded annually gives you 1506.10$ of free money
total cost of car - 10493.89$ . . . zero risk.
Seems silly to take the 500$ when I can get 1500$ off instead.
Two problems with that I'm afraid. You have assumed that the amount invested is 12,000 when it would only be 11,500; and you have assumed that you don't pay any lease payments until the end of the 4 years. If you model it with payments across the 4 years then you end up only $200 better off than taking the discount, not $1,000 better.
That's not quite right either. Either you assume $12,000 invested and then compare the interest with the $500 discount to see which is better (like GuitarStv did)(ignoring inflation), or you assume $11,500 invested and don't subtract anything from the interest. You can't both assume $11,500 invested and then subtract an additional $500 from the interest.
I agree 100% about the payments though, not all $12,000 is going to be "invested" the whole 4 years; you have to make those payments somehow and if it's not coming out of your investment account then it's coming out of money that you would have otherwise kept.
I come up with $792.58 if you invest at a guaranteed 3% compounding monthly vs. paying cash and investing $500 which would be $563.66 after 4 years at 3%. By accepting financing and investing you come out +$228.92.
Is there a good formula for this question in Excel?
=fv(0.03/12,4*12,-250,12000,0)
=fv(interest, number of payments, amount of payment, initial investment, end/beg)
= $795.13
By including the -250 per month that is withdrawn monthly from the 12,000 invested, we can see that the OP is up $795 after 4 years, and a paid off loan at zero percent.
The $500 cash rebate grows a bit over 4 years.
=FV(0.03/12,4*12,0,500)
=$564
Net difference: $231.47 in OP's favor.
This difference grows to $502 if a 4% interest rate is used instead of 3%... The different numbers others are getting are for different scenarios, such as not paying back $12,000 until the end of 4 years as a lump sum, interest rates, allowing for inflation to erode your net benefit, etc. It all depends on the actual situation and source of the funds... maybe the $250 will come from future income, not pulled from the invested loan money? If so, I would not use 4% to discount the 250, but the actual rate of inflation, etc.
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=fv(0.03/12,4*12,-250,12000,0)
=fv(interest, number of payments, amount of payment, initial investment, end/beg)
= $795.13
By including the -250 per month that is withdrawn monthly from the 12,000 invested, we can see that the OP is up $795 after 4 years, and a paid off loan at zero percent.
The $500 cash rebate grows a bit over 4 years.
=FV(0.03/12,4*12,0,500)
=$564
Net difference: $231.47 in OP's favor.
This is getting fun! That difference drops to $220.83 if you don't just divide 3% by 12, but use the more accurate method of finding the monthly rate that compounds to 3%. The remaining $31 of difference to my number is all down to whether the first lease payment is made at the end of the month as in the formula above, or at the start of the month as I assumed (change the 0 at the end of the formula to a 1 to get this basis). As I have never financed anything in my life, (other than a mortgage on a house) I have no idea at all whether lease payments are usually made in advance or arrears. Can anyone enlighten me?
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Also note that investment earnings are taxable, where upfront savings from the price reduction are taken at face value.
Great point!
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If you think buying a house in your 20's gets you the look, imagine building your own house. As we did our own work constructing it, I'd shop around for the best deal on materials, visit with businesses that dealt in glass cutting, garage doors, cement work, etc. and it wasn't so much 'the look' but the fine line between belief and disbelief I'd get. I still have the contact info for 'the believers' a decade later, and they're my go-to guys when I need steel or glass for a smaller project. The other guys just pissed me off..."alright, we'll be in touch with a quote". You can guess how that panned out.
I had A/C installed for the first time last month, and being in my mid-30's and having a rather unique property, I still got the "what do you do for a living?" question once the estimator pulled up, looked around, looked at me, then looked around again.
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I had the money to outright buy our most recent car, but they offered me 0% financing for four years vs 500$ off the purchase price for paying in cash. I financed because it would have been silly not to. :P
Also note that investment earnings are taxable, where upfront savings from the price reduction are taken at face value.
Great point!
So what kind of tax did you pay on your investment earnings over those 4 years?
GuitarStv didn't know what he was getting into with that post, but that's what happens when you talk to nerds
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I don't really get "the look" since everyone already assumes I'm rich because of my job. It's a blessing and a curse, I suppose. If I get caught doing "rich people stuff," it only seems to reinforce other people's preconceived notions about people in my line of work.
For example, take this other person's experience when buying a house:
That first bank also nearly interrogated to find out where the money from our downpayment came from. Savings wasn't an adequate answer. In their mind it was absolutely impossible for two mid-twenties kids who don't even look professional to be able to save one gross yearly income as a downpayment. Since my partner has wild hair and a beard I'm sure they thought it was crime related.
Back when I bought my condo, none of the realtors I worked with seemed to bat an eye despite me being in my early 20's and wanting to buy a condo with cash. Amusingly, my realtor ended up driving me around the city to see said condos because I didn't have a car. In fact, he was annoyingly eager to show me places that were as much as triple the price range that I was looking for. I had to keep reminding him that no, I was not interested in homes that expensive. He didn't even ask me for proof of assets until I made my first offer, and was fine with just a simple screenshot of my Vanguard account!
Before the closing, I rode my Razor scooter into the bank as a 23 year old guy wearing a T-shirt and jeans, with messy hair to boot. I sat down with a banker and asked for a cashier's check for a very precise number of approximately $150,000. She looked at me and was like, oh, you must be buying a house! And I'm like, yep. It was almost like she had to deal with people like me every day.
I'm pretty sure that my employment combined with the demographics of my city prevent me from getting the responses of others in this thread.
On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
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I don't really get "the look" since everyone already assumes I'm rich because of my job. It's a blessing and a curse, I suppose. If I get caught doing "rich people stuff," it only seems to reinforce other people's preconceived notions about people in my line of work.
For example, take this other person's experience when buying a house:
That first bank also nearly interrogated to find out where the money from our downpayment came from. Savings wasn't an adequate answer. In their mind it was absolutely impossible for two mid-twenties kids who don't even look professional to be able to save one gross yearly income as a downpayment. Since my partner has wild hair and a beard I'm sure they thought it was crime related.
Back when I bought my condo, none of the realtors I worked with seemed to bat an eye despite me being in my early 20's and wanting to buy a condo with cash. Amusingly, my realtor ended up driving me around the city to see said condos because I didn't have a car. In fact, he was annoyingly eager to show me places that were as much as triple the price range that I was looking for. I had to keep reminding him that no, I was not interested in homes that expensive. He didn't even ask me for proof of assets until I made my first offer, and was fine with just a simple screenshot of my Vanguard account!
Before the closing, I rode my Razor scooter into the bank as a 23 year old guy wearing a T-shirt and jeans, with messy hair to boot. I sat down with a banker and asked for a cashier's check for a very precise number of approximately $150,000. She looked at me and was like, oh, you must be buying a house! And I'm like, yep. It was almost like she had to deal with people like me every day.
I'm pretty sure that my employment combined with the demographics of my city prevent me from getting the responses of others in this thread.
On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
When someone offers you a gift, you graciously accept. It would be a jerk move to refuse.
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I don't really get "the look" since everyone already assumes I'm rich because of my job. It's a blessing and a curse, I suppose. If I get caught doing "rich people stuff," it only seems to reinforce other people's preconceived notions about people in my line of work.
For example, take this other person's experience when buying a house:
That first bank also nearly interrogated to find out where the money from our downpayment came from. Savings wasn't an adequate answer. In their mind it was absolutely impossible for two mid-twenties kids who don't even look professional to be able to save one gross yearly income as a downpayment. Since my partner has wild hair and a beard I'm sure they thought it was crime related.
Back when I bought my condo, none of the realtors I worked with seemed to bat an eye despite me being in my early 20's and wanting to buy a condo with cash. Amusingly, my realtor ended up driving me around the city to see said condos because I didn't have a car. In fact, he was annoyingly eager to show me places that were as much as triple the price range that I was looking for. I had to keep reminding him that no, I was not interested in homes that expensive. He didn't even ask me for proof of assets until I made my first offer, and was fine with just a simple screenshot of my Vanguard account!
Before the closing, I rode my Razor scooter into the bank as a 23 year old guy wearing a T-shirt and jeans, with messy hair to boot. I sat down with a banker and asked for a cashier's check for a very precise number of approximately $150,000. She looked at me and was like, oh, you must be buying a house! And I'm like, yep. It was almost like she had to deal with people like me every day.
I'm pretty sure that my employment combined with the demographics of my city prevent me from getting the responses of others in this thread.
On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
No, I read it as the person who was offering the meal was offering it to a mustachian who she incorrectly assumed was homeless.
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I think the power of compound interest is unknown to most folks. A friend is going to be starting a job soon with a 401k. I was trying to educate her a little on the benefits of investing a lot, and early, and how compound interest can really add up over time. I asked her how much she thought she'd have if she invested even 10% of her salary every year for several decades. She guessed around $50K. When I told her, conservatively, it would be over a million, her reaction was "...What!?". So I guess I got "the look" but from an educational standpoint.
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I don't really get "the look" since everyone already assumes I'm rich because of my job. It's a blessing and a curse, I suppose. If I get caught doing "rich people stuff," it only seems to reinforce other people's preconceived notions about people in my line of work.
For example, take this other person's experience when buying a house:
That first bank also nearly interrogated to find out where the money from our downpayment came from. Savings wasn't an adequate answer. In their mind it was absolutely impossible for two mid-twenties kids who don't even look professional to be able to save one gross yearly income as a downpayment. Since my partner has wild hair and a beard I'm sure they thought it was crime related.
Back when I bought my condo, none of the realtors I worked with seemed to bat an eye despite me being in my early 20's and wanting to buy a condo with cash. Amusingly, my realtor ended up driving me around the city to see said condos because I didn't have a car. In fact, he was annoyingly eager to show me places that were as much as triple the price range that I was looking for. I had to keep reminding him that no, I was not interested in homes that expensive. He didn't even ask me for proof of assets until I made my first offer, and was fine with just a simple screenshot of my Vanguard account!
Before the closing, I rode my Razor scooter into the bank as a 23 year old guy wearing a T-shirt and jeans, with messy hair to boot. I sat down with a banker and asked for a cashier's check for a very precise number of approximately $150,000. She looked at me and was like, oh, you must be buying a house! And I'm like, yep. It was almost like she had to deal with people like me every day.
I'm pretty sure that my employment combined with the demographics of my city prevent me from getting the responses of others in this thread.
On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
No, I read it as the person who was offering the meal was offering it to a mustachian who she incorrectly assumed was homeless.
That I agree with, but it says they were taking handouts from a homeless woman. If that is the case it is a horrible thing to do in my opinion. The poster should be giving to homeless, if anything, not taking from them
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On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
Lol, ya. I feel like I would have taken the burger too but I also would have given her all the cash in my wallet before we parted ways. Giving when you don't have enough for yourself is real generosity.
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I don't really get "the look" since everyone already assumes I'm rich because of my job. It's a blessing and a curse, I suppose. If I get caught doing "rich people stuff," it only seems to reinforce other people's preconceived notions about people in my line of work.
For example, take this other person's experience when buying a house:
That first bank also nearly interrogated to find out where the money from our downpayment came from. Savings wasn't an adequate answer. In their mind it was absolutely impossible for two mid-twenties kids who don't even look professional to be able to save one gross yearly income as a downpayment. Since my partner has wild hair and a beard I'm sure they thought it was crime related.
Back when I bought my condo, none of the realtors I worked with seemed to bat an eye despite me being in my early 20's and wanting to buy a condo with cash. Amusingly, my realtor ended up driving me around the city to see said condos because I didn't have a car. In fact, he was annoyingly eager to show me places that were as much as triple the price range that I was looking for. I had to keep reminding him that no, I was not interested in homes that expensive. He didn't even ask me for proof of assets until I made my first offer, and was fine with just a simple screenshot of my Vanguard account!
Before the closing, I rode my Razor scooter into the bank as a 23 year old guy wearing a T-shirt and jeans, with messy hair to boot. I sat down with a banker and asked for a cashier's check for a very precise number of approximately $150,000. She looked at me and was like, oh, you must be buying a house! And I'm like, yep. It was almost like she had to deal with people like me every day.
I'm pretty sure that my employment combined with the demographics of my city prevent me from getting the responses of others in this thread.
On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
No, I read it as the person who was offering the meal was offering it to a mustachian who she incorrectly assumed was homeless.
That I agree with, but it says they were taking handouts from a homeless woman. If that is the case it is a horrible thing to do in my opinion. The poster should be giving to homeless, if anything, not taking from them
Oh yeah, looks like I read it wrong. :(
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I think the power of compound interest is unknown to most folks. A friend is going to be starting a job soon with a 401k. I was trying to educate her a little on the benefits of investing a lot, and early, and how compound interest can really add up over time. I asked her how much she thought she'd have if she invested even 10% of her salary every year for several decades. She guessed around $50K. When I told her, conservatively, it would be over a million, her reaction was "...What!?". So I guess I got "the look" but from an educational standpoint.
I convinced a young co worker to contribute up to the match in her 401k. She was part time, 22 years old. Living with her parents and spoiled. I told her don't worry it will only be $25 a week. Well we got paid and she flipped out because it was $50 (we got paid biweekly) and she couldn't afford that. I asked her what exactly she couldn't afford, since she lived at home and had no bills. She said she had credit card bills and started naming off various mall clothing stores.
This same girl made a comment about a customer who had $60k in her bank account. She said "if I had $60k, I wouldn't be driving a car like that. I'd be driving a much nicer car." I said the reason she has $60k is because she drives a "car like that".
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On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
Lol, ya. I feel like I would have taken the burger too but I also would have given her all the cash in my wallet before we parted ways. Giving when you don't have enough for yourself is real generosity.
+1
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Ah yes, "The Look". When I was buying my house, the window treatment guy who was selling to all the new homeowners asked me straight out how I was doing so well for myself that I could afford a house like this on my own. I immediately assumed that he wanted to know whether I was divorced or widowed because how on earth could a woman afford a house like this by herself. (Later I was told I read too much into it, but I still think he never would have wondered with a man). Besides, it's not like I bought the whole house...I had and still have a substantial mortgage. All I did was get myself into a buttload of debt!
They mostly just assume I'm being kept by my husband, though, which is all the more annoying because it's actually the other way around.
This happens all the time with my sister. She's very successful and whenever people get a small glimpse into her life, it's always "what does her husband do"? It makes me furious!
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I had the money to outright buy our most recent car, but they offered me 0% financing for four years vs 500$ off the purchase price for paying in cash. I financed because it would have been silly not to. :P
Also note that investment earnings are taxable, where upfront savings from the price reduction are taken at face value.
Great point!
So what kind of tax did you pay on your investment earnings over those 4 years?
GuitarStv didn't know what he was getting into with that post, but that's what happens when you talk to nerds
The math that I posted is pretty much what I did in my head while the guy was talking to me. I totally somehow blanked on the fact that we do pay monthly fees (I handle the investments and my wife tends to handle the bills) and purchased a four year GIC at a little over 3% at the same time that we got the car . . . so in retrospect . . . whoopsies. :P
We're taxed based upon graduated brackets based upon net income - RRSP contributions and I'd have to sit down with our previous year's returns to get you an exact value. I'd guess somewhere around 20% off the top of my head.
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Got the look when I went to HR to request that 100% of my paycheck be put into a retirement account. I don't want any of it taxed nor to have any of it hit my checking account. They think I'm crazy...
Can you walk me through this one? How can 100% of your paycheck not be taxed?
-Marley
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There are two distinct looks, and both have been covered here.
One is the look when people realize you have money and they wouldn't have guessed it. Love getting that one and it pops up when buying a car or when people talk about their car payments or mortgages.
The other look is when they see you heating up leftovers or driving an old beater. Sometimes that borders on contempt, eye rolling or sympathy depending on the situation. Those make me smile and think "If only you knew...."
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There are two distinct looks, and both have been covered here.
One is the look when people realize you have money and they wouldn't have guessed it. Love getting that one and it pops up when buying a car or when people talk about their car payments or mortgages.
The other look is when they see you heating up leftovers or driving an old beater. Sometimes that borders on contempt, eye rolling or sympathy depending on the situation. Those make me smile and think "If only you knew...."
I think there's a third where they don't believe you or they think you must be a criminal to have that much money.
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She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
No, I read it as the person who was offering the meal was offering it to a mustachian who she incorrectly assumed was homeless.
That I agree with, but it says they were taking handouts from a homeless woman. If that is the case it is a horrible thing to do in my opinion. The poster should be giving to homeless, if anything, not taking from them
Yes, she offered it to me and insisted that I take it even when I indicated that I didn't need it. I think accepting her generosity was the best move to make in that situation. It would be impolite to reject her gift and even worse to explain to her exactly why I didn't need her help with food. Which by the way, she knew I had a bag of food I had brought with me for the trip and had been eating out of (Chef Boyardee, etc). I think she thought I was too broke to afford fast food and that was why I had been eating canned stuff the whole trip.
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On the other hand, I've had some amusing encounters over the years where people assumed strange things about me--especially when I'm out of town. Once, I was riding a Greyhound bus and one of the passengers must have assumed I was homeless or something because she invited me to come with her to a homeless shelter. She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
Lol, ya. I feel like I would have taken the burger too but I also would have given her all the cash in my wallet before we parted ways. Giving when you don't have enough for yourself is real generosity.
+1
sort of +1. That's what I would like to have done, but I'm not sure I could have brought myself to do it. Handing over my cash, definitely, but eating the McDonalds?
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She also shared some hamburgers she had purchased from the McDonald's dollar menu. I'm thinking to myself that here I am, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, making six figures, and taking handouts from a homeless women on a Greyhound bus because she pities me. Needless to say, I did not correct her assumptions.
What a jerk move to save a couple of bucks. This person is homeless? and you are taking what could amount to her meal for a few days, when you are worth 6 figures and make that a year. Wow, some people.
No, I read it as the person who was offering the meal was offering it to a mustachian who she incorrectly assumed was homeless.
That I agree with, but it says they were taking handouts from a homeless woman. If that is the case it is a horrible thing to do in my opinion. The poster should be giving to homeless, if anything, not taking from them
Yes, she offered it to me and insisted that I take it even when I indicated that I didn't need it. I think accepting her generosity was the best move to make in that situation. It would be impolite to reject her gift and even worse to explain to her exactly why I didn't need her help with food. Which by the way, she knew I had a bag of food I had brought with me for the trip and had been eating out of (Chef Boyardee, etc). I think she thought I was too broke to afford fast food and that was why I had been eating canned stuff the whole trip.
That makes more sense. And the fact that you were eating Chef Boyardee out of a can makes this story even funnier. I hope it was generic.
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That makes more sense. And the fact that you were eating Chef Boyardee out of a can makes this story even funnier. I hope it was generic.
Haha! Indeed, it was generic. It was some random brand that I had never heard of before, purchased from one of those discount grocery stores (think: ALDI) at about 50 cents per can. The only drawback was that unlike Chef Boyardee, the cans did not have those tab things on top to open them, so I had to use a can opener. I was careful to purchase exactly how much food I needed for the entire three-day trip (I think I had six cans of the stuff!), and of course I brought my can opener with me. Unfortunately, my can opener broke on the first day of the trip and I had to purchase another one from a gas station for about $2. Sadly, this "can opener (https://www.nepartysupplies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/4-church-key-can-and-bottle-opener.jpg)" was the only thing they carried, and was not very ideal for opening cans as I soon learned. When we stopped for meal breaks, it would take me a good five minutes of fumbling with the can in order to get the top off, and even then it would have these annoying jagged edges.
So her seeing me painstakingly opening my cans of generic ravioli was probably also part of it.
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That makes more sense. And the fact that you were eating Chef Boyardee out of a can makes this story even funnier. I hope it was generic.
Haha! Indeed, it was generic. It was some random brand that I had never heard of before, purchased from one of those discount grocery stores (think: ALDI) at about 50 cents per can. The only drawback was that unlike Chef Boyardee, the cans did not have those tab things on top to open them, so I had to use a can opener. I was careful to purchase exactly how much food I needed for the entire three-day trip (I think I had six cans of the stuff!), and of course I brought my can opener with me. Unfortunately, my can opener broke on the first day of the trip and I had to purchase another one from a gas station for about $2. Sadly, this "can opener (https://www.nepartysupplies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/4-church-key-can-and-bottle-opener.jpg)" was the only thing they carried, and was not very ideal for opening cans as I soon learned. When we stopped for meal breaks, it would take me a good five minutes of fumbling with the can in order to get the top off.
So her seeing me painstakingly opening my cans of generic ravioli was probably also part of it.
Some would say this is beyond frugal and bordering on cheap. I say it's hilarious and I could see myself doing that. One time I was on a school trip and we stopped somewhere for fast food. I walked to a grocery store and got a loaf of bread for $0.99. I even had leftovers!
Another time I offered a honey bun from my pocket to a homeless person who said he was very hungry but it was kinda smashed and he said "no thanks". I ate the honeybun.
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Got the look when I went to HR to request that 100% of my paycheck be put into a retirement account. I don't want any of it taxed nor to have any of it hit my checking account. They think I'm crazy...
Can you walk me through this one? How can 100% of your paycheck not be taxed?
-Marley
It's not really possible. You pay FICA taxes regardless of how much you contribute to a retirement account (except for HSA). So assuming we're not talking about HSA contributions here, the maximum you could allocate to a retirement account should be 92.35% of gross. This does completely avoid federal and [probably?] state taxes though. There are additional complications if you have health insurance deductions and such from your paycheck.
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I had the money to outright buy our most recent car, but they offered me 0% financing for four years vs 500$ off the purchase price for paying in cash. I financed because it would have been silly not to. :P
Also note that investment earnings are taxable, where upfront savings from the price reduction are taken at face value.
Great point!
So what kind of tax did you pay on your investment earnings over those 4 years?
GuitarStv didn't know what he was getting into with that post, but that's what happens when you talk to nerds
Oh, I assumed that I was a student living at home, and paying zero tax.
:-)
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Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
His face scrunched up and he gave me "The Look" - as though he wanted to ask "How can that be? That does not fit into my understanding of reality, that a single, non-wealthy-appearing woman owns a very expensive piece of real estate."
I have gotten "The Look" at other times also. I usually get it when I mention that I own a condo, but I have also gotten it when I mention I am a computer programmer - somehow I do not fit into people's stereotypical vision of what a computer programmer looks like (i.e. young and male and high-salaried).
Does anyone else get "The Look"? I have a very low-key appearance and do not flaunt my wealth, educational, or career accomplishments in any way, which seems to lead strangers to conclude that I am not wealthy or successful.
Haha sounds like "the look" you get is better than the one I get!
"The look" I get is how a well dressed (non name brands), well kept, handsome and seemingly well-off young Caucasian man get's into a beat up 1999 Toyota Corolla....
I would prefer the "look" you get from people! haha!
I just had to say goodbye to my '99 Corolla I've had since high school. I'm gonna miss it so much!
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...
They mostly just assume I'm being kept by my husband, though, which is all the more annoying because it's actually the other way around.
This happens all the time with my sister. She's very successful and whenever people get a small glimpse into her life, it's always "what does her husband do"? It makes me furious!
Ex-gf had done very well for herself before I met her. And I saw this look from sales dudes when she would get in a buying/decorating mood. They would give me a "your cool with this?" look. Ex-gf had ZERO situational awareness or ability to read people so I dont think she saw it but I know other people-(men) had more explicitly said or implied to her that she had done well in the divorce when in fact she had brought all the assets to the marriage and that bugged her a bit.
As far as me getting "The Look", not so much in the past bunch of years as some grey has come in around the side. Regardless of what shirt I am wearing I think I have the look of a senior engineer with some casual confidence; so it is assumed I have the 5$k or whatever. But I also hit most of the privilege check boxes so maybe it is not my swagger.
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Fun thread, and I loved the used car financing vs discount math discussion. I hadn't even considered the need to immediately start withdrawing on the $12k invested and how much that would effect the total return, nor the tax implication to boot.
I get the look every few months, as my roommate pays me his share of rent in cash. I have a credit union account than I only keep for depositing this cash (my actual bank is etrade, so no branches), and I hold some savings in it to avoid fees. Every few months when I have enough to bother with I'll take a stack of cash, deposit it, then immediately transfer it back out to my investment account. I usually go Saturday mornings and I'm dressed in cargo pants, tshirt, and motorcycle gear. Every time I hand it to them they go 'that's a lot of cash...' *suspicious look*. This next trip is going to be $5500 cash, biggest yet, looking forward to the reaction.
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I get it occasionally when I tell people I'm 52. I like that "look" (I figure sooner or later Father Time will catch up to me and I won't get in anymore).
When they ask what my secret is I tell them without hesitation -- "no kids." ;-)
LOL. I keep reading these posts from people who look younger than they are and also don't have kids and wondering, "You guys know these two facts are closely linked, right?"
Signed,
The lady who hasn't been mistaken for being younger than she is since simultaneously becoming pregnant with her first child and getting gray hair at the ripe old age of 26.
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I'm not sure how much I get "the look".
I used to get the "bad look" when I brought my lunch every day. 6 years of no raises at our company fixed that. Lots of people bring lunch now.
I occasionally get the "you deserve a newer car" look at work. But my current car runs, and it's by no means the oldest car in the lot (it's a 2006).
I sometimes get "the look" when I donate money to the school, because we probably write the biggest check. Sometimes one other family will be the same amount. I don't know if the principal thinks I'm loaded or what. But ya know how a lot of other people go on nice vacations, go to concerts, have nice cars and stuff? I don't really do that.
I think a lot of single women get "looks" when they buy houses and such. Because, you know, you need a man - why would you buy a place? Shouldn't you get married first?
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I think a lot of single women get "looks" when they buy houses and such. Because, you know, you need a man - why would you buy a place? Shouldn't you get married first?
Yes, people who came to do various things to my house (electrician, etc.) when I was single always seemed like they didn't know how to talk to a single female homeowner. And I have to admit, now that I'm married, it's just easier to have my husband deal with the propane delivery guy, the termite inspector, etc. I suppose I'm contributing to perpetuating the "women don't deal with these things" myth out of a desire to avoid the awkwardness.
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Got the look when I went to HR to request that 100% of my paycheck be put into a retirement account. I don't want any of it taxed nor to have any of it hit my checking account. They think I'm crazy...
Can you walk me through this one? How can 100% of your paycheck not be taxed?
-Marley
It's not really possible. You pay FICA taxes regardless of how much you contribute to a retirement account (except for HSA). So assuming we're not talking about HSA contributions here, the maximum you could allocate to a retirement account should be 92.35% of gross. This does completely avoid federal and [probably?] state taxes though. There are additional complications if you have health insurance deductions and such from your paycheck.
Yes, this. I was talking about federal and state. I am not taking any of it home. It all goes into tax deferred. Obviously the prerequisites that can't be avoided are taken out. But 100% of what would be "take home" is sent straight over to a retirement account.
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I get the look every few months, as my roommate pays me his share of rent in cash. I have a credit union account than I only keep for depositing this cash (my actual bank is etrade, so no branches), and I hold some savings in it to avoid fees. Every few months when I have enough to bother with I'll take a stack of cash, deposit it, then immediately transfer it back out to my investment account. I usually go Saturday mornings and I'm dressed in cargo pants, tshirt, and motorcycle gear. Every time I hand it to them they go 'that's a lot of cash...' *suspicious look*. This next trip is going to be $5500 cash, biggest yet, looking forward to the reaction.
Just in case you don't know already: eventually a cash deposit will either be large enough that the bank personnel are mandated by law to fill out a report form for the IRS, or, even if you stay under the cap, they can flag you to the IRS anyway if they feel like it for "structuring" cash deposits to avoid triggering a report. Basically you do not want to garner any bank or IRS attention for making cash deposits, even though the funds are legally obtained and even though you are planning to pay all of the tax you owe on this income. There was a time just in the past few years when the IRS routinely seized and held huge sums of money from folks in the name of "something here could be illegal, so we're going to seize all of your money and hold it for years until it is all sorted out by us (if we get around to it.)" The IRS came under a lot of fire for that because they did it to people like restaurant owners who just happened to have a lot of legit cash from their businesses, so as far as I know they have mostly stopped, but it could start up again any time.
Please note that if they decide to start tracking your cash deposits, you only have to deposit $10K IN AN ENTIRE YEAR for it to count as reportable. I've put the link below.
You would be wiser to either use the cash from your roommate directly as your "walk around spending money" or make the small deposits regularly as you receive the money so that you are not raising their eyebrows at the bank . . . ever.
From the IRS reporting regulation (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p1544/ar02.html (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p1544/ar02.html))
"Over $10,000,
Received as:
One lump sum of over $10,000,
Installment payments that cause the total cash received within 1 year of the initial payment to total more than $10,000, or
Other previously unreportable payments that cause the total cash received within a 12-month period to total more than $10,000"
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That look: every time I mention that I live in a 150 square foot subdivided flat in one of the poorer parts of Hong Kong - notorious among locals for its large population of immigrants (vs 'expats' - ie white people, which you find more on HK Island). Since I'm immigrating to HK, I feel the neighborhood's a natural fit ;)
Though I could easily afford a flat three times as large (and twice as expensive), the current place hits the sweet spot financially and aesthetically, even if it means my little secondhand fridge is set on top of the secondhand washer/dryer unit, pretty typical in local Hong Kong decor.
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Got the look when I went to HR to request that 100% of my paycheck be put into a retirement account. I don't want any of it taxed nor to have any of it hit my checking account. They think I'm crazy...
Can you walk me through this one? How can 100% of your paycheck not be taxed?
-Marley
It's not really possible. You pay FICA taxes regardless of how much you contribute to a retirement account (except for HSA). So assuming we're not talking about HSA contributions here, the maximum you could allocate to a retirement account should be 92.35% of gross. This does completely avoid federal and [probably?] state taxes though. There are additional complications if you have health insurance deductions and such from your paycheck.
Yes, this. I was talking about federal and state. I am not taking any of it home. It all goes into tax deferred. Obviously the prerequisites that can't be avoided are taken out. But 100% of what would be "take home" is sent straight over to a retirement account.
Did you feel THAT? - I just gave you "the look" through this tread ;) mad props...now I am off to do some research on this!
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I get the look every few months, as my roommate pays me his share of rent in cash. I have a credit union account than I only keep for depositing this cash (my actual bank is etrade, so no branches), and I hold some savings in it to avoid fees. Every few months when I have enough to bother with I'll take a stack of cash, deposit it, then immediately transfer it back out to my investment account. I usually go Saturday mornings and I'm dressed in cargo pants, tshirt, and motorcycle gear. Every time I hand it to them they go 'that's a lot of cash...' *suspicious look*. This next trip is going to be $5500 cash, biggest yet, looking forward to the reaction.
Just in case you don't know already: eventually a cash deposit will either be large enough that the bank personnel are mandated by law to fill out a report form for the IRS, or, even if you stay under the cap, they can flag you to the IRS anyway if they feel like it for "structuring" cash deposits to avoid triggering a report. Basically you do not want to garner any bank or IRS attention for making cash deposits, even though the funds are legally obtained and even though you are planning to pay all of the tax you owe on this income. There was a time just in the past few years when the IRS routinely seized and held huge sums of money from folks in the name of "something here could be illegal, so we're going to seize all of your money and hold it for years until it is all sorted out by us (if we get around to it.)" The IRS came under a lot of fire for that because they did it to people like restaurant owners who just happened to have a lot of legit cash from their businesses, so as far as I know they have mostly stopped, but it could start up again any time.
Please note that if they decide to start tracking your cash deposits, you only have to deposit $10K IN AN ENTIRE YEAR for it to count as reportable. I've put the link below.
You would be wiser to either use the cash from your roommate directly as your "walk around spending money" or make the small deposits regularly as you receive the money so that you are not raising their eyebrows at the bank . . . ever.
From the IRS reporting regulation (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p1544/ar02.html (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p1544/ar02.html))
"Over $10,000,
Received as:
One lump sum of over $10,000,
Installment payments that cause the total cash received within 1 year of the initial payment to total more than $10,000, or
Other previously unreportable payments that cause the total cash received within a 12-month period to total more than $10,000"
It might be worth mentioning to the tellers that it is rent money being deposited, so they aren't suspicious.
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I get the look every few months, as my roommate pays me his share of rent in cash. I have a credit union account than I only keep for depositing this cash (my actual bank is etrade, so no branches), and I hold some savings in it to avoid fees. Every few months when I have enough to bother with I'll take a stack of cash, deposit it, then immediately transfer it back out to my investment account. I usually go Saturday mornings and I'm dressed in cargo pants, tshirt, and motorcycle gear. Every time I hand it to them they go 'that's a lot of cash...' *suspicious look*. This next trip is going to be $5500 cash, biggest yet, looking forward to the reaction.
Just in case you don't know already: eventually a cash deposit will either be large enough that the bank personnel are mandated by law to fill out a report form for the IRS, or, even if you stay under the cap, they can flag you to the IRS anyway if they feel like it for "structuring" cash deposits to avoid triggering a report. Basically you do not want to garner any bank or IRS attention for making cash deposits, even though the funds are legally obtained and even though you are planning to pay all of the tax you owe on this income. There was a time just in the past few years when the IRS routinely seized and held huge sums of money from folks in the name of "something here could be illegal, so we're going to seize all of your money and hold it for years until it is all sorted out by us (if we get around to it.)" The IRS came under a lot of fire for that because they did it to people like restaurant owners who just happened to have a lot of legit cash from their businesses, so as far as I know they have mostly stopped, but it could start up again any time.
Please note that if they decide to start tracking your cash deposits, you only have to deposit $10K IN AN ENTIRE YEAR for it to count as reportable. I've put the link below.
You would be wiser to either use the cash from your roommate directly as your "walk around spending money" or make the small deposits regularly as you receive the money so that you are not raising their eyebrows at the bank . . . ever.
From the IRS reporting regulation (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p1544/ar02.html (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p1544/ar02.html))
"Over $10,000,
Received as:
One lump sum of over $10,000,
Installment payments that cause the total cash received within 1 year of the initial payment to total more than $10,000, or
Other previously unreportable payments that cause the total cash received within a 12-month period to total more than $10,000"
Let me put some fears to rest. I use to work at a bank. I can confirm that a $10,000.01 cash lump sum will trigger a CTR. It's a form the teller fills out when you make the deposit or withdrawal. I was a banker, not a teller, but I did have to fill one out once. It is pretty painless. The form itself doesn't raise any eyebrows, it happens, no biggie. We had a few clients with cash heavy businesses who had to fill it out every week. They didn't have any problems. When it will raise eyebrows is if your tax forms at the end of the year show something very different. A restaurant reporting $5,000 in cash sales on their tax forms, but then $100,000 in reportable cash deposits at the bank is asking for an audit.
RyanAtTanagra is probably fine based on what has been said. No one cares that he deposits a few thousand every few months. The teller is probably commenting on it to try to start a conversation. They are trained to try and start conversations with people, and learn more about you so that they can position other products of the bank. "This is a lot of cash," will normally lead to, "Why don't you have a savings account?" "Oh, your savings is at E-trade, nevermind." If she is actually suspicious of him making those deposits then that is very odd. People make large cash deposits at banks, and on a Saturday everyone dresses casual.
If your various transactions throughout the year put you over $10,000, no one notices or cares. I have never seen or heard of this happening. Installment payments refers to someone giving you exactly X amount on X day of each month, and that equaling more than $10,000. Example: you sell a car/house/business and the buyer is making cash installment payments. The IRS wants to know about that because all the installments add up to one initial transaction that was greater than $10k, but that is really for you to self report. The bank isn't reporting that unless you do something suspicious to raise red flags. Depositing a few thousand every few months isn't suspicious.
Trying to structure your transactions to avoid filling out the form will get you significantly more unwanted attention than if you deposited more than $10k and completed the form. I'll wager the businesses who had their money frozen were trying to structure their transactions to avoid the $10k threshold, OR they weren't reporting their full cash sales on their taxes. From the bank & IRS's point of view structuring transactions to avoid the $10k threshold looks very similar to structuring money for money laundering purposes. Regular transactions for $9,900 for instance will raise red flags. The craziest case I heard of was a guy making large cash deposits at multiple banks everyday. Note, these weren't branches of the same bank, they were separate banks. Example: Bank of America and Wells Fargo. How did he get flagged? One of the tellers at bank A that he normally dealt with quit to take a job at Bank B. She quickly realized the regular deposits were more than $10k a day...
EDIT: @RyanAtTanagra: Motorcycle gear? When do you take your helmet off? Someone walking into, or even approaching a bank with their face hidden will automatically raise the blood pressure of every teller. ;-)
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I've gotten "the look" so many times, I almost don't notice anymore.
Female, started programming in Jr. High. Work in male dominated field (former electrician, now a related but different field). Got pregnant in high school (then got married shortly after). Bought house young (I was 19, then husband was 20, money came from what I earned as a kid delivering the newspaper, through jobs in high school). Ex left when I was 22. Bought current house when I was 26(?) Sent my son to a private school, where I was only one of two single moms (the other's parents were paying for her kid to go there) and one of very few working moms. Many of those families struggled to pay the tuition, while I was asking if I could get a discount for paying it in one lump sum at the beginning of the year.
Put myself through an associates degree while working 30+ hours a week. Through it all, I have been a saver, lived frugally, etc, etc. I've even gone on some amazing vacations (including several trips to Europe, the most recent was for 5 weeks). People are shocked when they find out I have always paid a credit card balance in full (except when I had one with 0% interest, then I would just pay it in full before the interest kicked in.)
I look young, my son looks old, so I get some really confused looks when he is with me.
I also do a lot of my own repairs. The guy at the nearby hardware store has pretty much stopped questioning me when I need some parts/tools, and will just help me find them. I still threw him though when we found that a tool I wanted didn't exist (or at least, he'd never heard of one and they didn't have any), and I made the comment "looks like I'll have to make it myself."
Let me just say that you are a hero and deserve a medal for being the kind of person that makes our world a better place. If i were single, I might be trying to meet you for a cup of (reasonably priced) coffee. Kudos.
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I'll wager the businesses who had their money frozen were trying to structure their transactions to avoid the $10k threshold, OR they weren't reporting their full cash sales on their taxes.
I recall hearing that some businesses had an insurance policy that only protected $10k cash on hand so they would deposit cash whenever they got close to the limit. One such example is listed here: https://www.irsmedic.com/blog/2016/06/irs-structuring-laws.html.
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I get it occasionally when I tell people I'm 52. I like that "look" (I figure sooner or later Father Time will catch up to me and I won't get in anymore).
When they ask what my secret is I tell them without hesitation -- "no kids." ;-)
LOL. I keep reading these posts from people who look younger than they are and also don't have kids and wondering, "You guys know these two facts are closely linked, right?"
Signed,
The lady who hasn't been mistaken for being younger than she is since simultaneously becoming pregnant with her first child and getting gray hair at the ripe old age of 26.
Ha ha. I think its because us kidless people get to spend our free time working out, playing, and sleeping instead. Or spending our money on Botox and face lifts instead of the kids (just kidding...maybe ;-)).
I think it's because you've never had to endure that other "look". This is the one passers by give you when your 10yo (who should know better by now) is having a public meltdown, or when your 2 year old has somehow morphed into an octopus and is trying to escape the car while you attempt to simultaneously hold her down, buckle her into her carseat, and close the door without catching any of her tentacles fingers.
Not that any of those things have ever happened to me ;-)
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I get the look every few months, as my roommate pays me his share of rent in cash. I have a credit union account than I only keep for depositing this cash (my actual bank is etrade, so no branches), and I hold some savings in it to avoid fees. Every few months when I have enough to bother with I'll take a stack of cash, deposit it, then immediately transfer it back out to my investment account. I usually go Saturday mornings and I'm dressed in cargo pants, tshirt, and motorcycle gear. Every time I hand it to them they go 'that's a lot of cash...' *suspicious look*. This next trip is going to be $5500 cash, biggest yet, looking forward to the reaction.
... good info ...
... more good info ...
EDIT: @RyanAtTanagra: Motorcycle gear? When do you take your helmet off? Someone walking into, or even approaching a bank with their face hidden will automatically raise the blood pressure of every teller. ;-)
Thanks both for the info! I'm not too worried, I don't think I deposit enough, or often enough, to garner real attention. There is way more money in this city than the minor sums I'm handling.
Indexer, I do take the helmet off before I walk into the bank. I imagine that would get me a not-quite-friendly conversation with the security guard :-)
As an aside, has anyone ever gotten IRS attention, or heard of someone who's frugal getting attention because their savings didn't make sense with their reported income. If someone has say a 80% savings rate, and the IRS looks at amounts invested vs amounts earned, since that kind of savings doesn't compute for most people, I can see that alone raising a red flag for 'there must me unreported income here'.
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I get it occasionally when I tell people I'm 52. I like that "look" (I figure sooner or later Father Time will catch up to me and I won't get in anymore).
When they ask what my secret is I tell them without hesitation -- "no kids." ;-)
LOL. I keep reading these posts from people who look younger than they are and also don't have kids and wondering, "You guys know these two facts are closely linked, right?"
Signed,
The lady who hasn't been mistaken for being younger than she is since simultaneously becoming pregnant with her first child and getting gray hair at the ripe old age of 26.
I had cousins visit me recently with their children. the 9-year-old asked me very earnestly: How do you keep your house so clean? Without hesitation, I replied "No kids". He looked a bit shocked, so I had to throw in "no pets. And I have a cleaning lady". But really, all I could think of was wishing cleaning day was the day after they left instead of the day before.
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I think a lot of single women get "looks" when they buy houses and such. Because, you know, you need a man - why would you buy a place? Shouldn't you get married first?
Yes, people who came to do various things to my house (electrician, etc.) when I was single always seemed like they didn't know how to talk to a single female homeowner. And I have to admit, now that I'm married, it's just easier to have my husband deal with the propane delivery guy, the termite inspector, etc. I suppose I'm contributing to perpetuating the "women don't deal with these things" myth out of a desire to avoid the awkwardness.
Now that I have a DH, I always have him speak with any tradesmen to avoid the awkward. We talk about whatever is being done beforehand, then I say, "Now go off and speak Man to that guy so he'll get it." :)
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I think a lot of single women get "looks" when they buy houses and such. Because, you know, you need a man - why would you buy a place? Shouldn't you get married first?
Yes, people who came to do various things to my house (electrician, etc.) when I was single always seemed like they didn't know how to talk to a single female homeowner. And I have to admit, now that I'm married, it's just easier to have my husband deal with the propane delivery guy, the termite inspector, etc. I suppose I'm contributing to perpetuating the "women don't deal with these things" myth out of a desire to avoid the awkwardness.
Now that I have a DH, I always have him speak with any tradesmen to avoid the awkward. We talk about whatever is being done beforehand, then I say, "Now go off and speak Man to that guy so he'll get it." :)
Haha, I use exactly the same phrase with my husband -- "speak Man." :-)
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I think a lot of single women get "looks" when they buy houses and such. Because, you know, you need a man - why would you buy a place? Shouldn't you get married first?
Yes, people who came to do various things to my house (electrician, etc.) when I was single always seemed like they didn't know how to talk to a single female homeowner. And I have to admit, now that I'm married, it's just easier to have my husband deal with the propane delivery guy, the termite inspector, etc. I suppose I'm contributing to perpetuating the "women don't deal with these things" myth out of a desire to avoid the awkwardness.
Now that I have a DH, I always have him speak with any tradesmen to avoid the awkward. We talk about whatever is being done beforehand, then I say, "Now go off and speak Man to that guy so he'll get it." :)
Haha, I use exactly the same phrase with my husband -- "speak Man." :-)
On the other hand, I once had a male supervisor once tell me I needed to stop talking like a woman as guys don't want to speak to their wives at work. I didn't make a big fuss because he honestly thought he was giving good career advice but I wanted to look down at my chest and say "Boss, um I am female you know"
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The look followed by accusations and finally anger. The worst time was when my husband and I paid cash for our house. The title company didn't believe us and proceeded to ask us who gave us the cash and said "normally people come in bragging and I find out that grandpa loaned them the money." See, people our age just don't have that kind of cash and apparently making a cash transaction is bragging. Well, it was a depressed housing market and we took advantage of a property that was days before foreclosure. Our offer was accepted over several higher offers because there was no time to deal with financing from the other potential buyers. The bank jumped on the cash offer. We got a DEAL on that house so that man can think I'm a liar all he wants.
It's not the title company's damned business where you got the money.
A bank who is loaning you money? Sure.
A title company? Tell them to f* off and ask to speak to their manager.
If they are the owner and there's no time to do business elsewhere, write a complaint to the various regulatory and professional agencies.
If there is a loan for the money, the title company does need to know because they are guaranteeing that there are no liens nor would there be any liens on the property. A loan for the purchase of the property may in fact create a lien, or at least the possibility for a lean. This is why banks will often interrogate you about where the cash comes from, especially if it is deposited within the last 6 months or so. There are nice ways to do this and rude ways to do it, but both these folks are just doing their due diligence as it relates to the product or service they are providing.
Do you have a source for that info?
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"The look" I get is how a well dressed (non name brands), well kept, handsome and seemingly well-off young Caucasian man get's into a beat up 1999 Toyota Corolla....
Replace 1999 Toyota with 35 year old rusty lifted pickup and that's me. I get a kick out of people's reactions when they see me pull up then watch me get out of the truck. Bonus points if I'm wearing a tie or make a relatively large cash purchase and they observe that too. It's amusing to see their heads spin.
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My in-laws (early 60's) were asked to supply investment statements proving they could pay for their house in cash. Apparently no one does that anymore.
In my experience, this is a common request. I work with customers that request verification letters from me to supply proof that they have the assets to purchase the home.
Was there a problem with people showing up to Real Estate closings and saying, "Just Kidding! As if we had that kind of money..."?
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My in-laws (early 60's) were asked to supply investment statements proving they could pay for their house in cash. Apparently no one does that anymore.
In my experience, this is a common request. I work with customers that request verification letters from me to supply proof that they have the assets to purchase the home.
Was there a problem with people showing up to Real Estate closings and saying, "Just Kidding! As if we had that kind of money..."?
I think it usually happens in the beginning phases. If someone is selling their home, they want to make sure the person who is offering cash actually has the money. They don't want to get stuck waiting because the person had to sell some assets or some transfer didn't go through in time, etc. F
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Sure, I get it all the time -- particularly when people ask me if I have kids and I say "no." Usually, it's a look of pity -- although I don't feel that way.
It's funny about other peoples' expectations. We live in a 13-year-old home that's been regularly kept up, kept pretty clean, and we've never had kids or pets. My college-aged nephew visited last spring and said, "You guys still have the same carpet?" Sure we do. After 13 years of light use there's no need to replace it.
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Sure, I get it all the time -- particularly when people ask me if I have kids and I say "no." Usually, it's a look of pity -- although I don't feel that way.
Don't mistake that heady mixture of envy, jealousy, rage, and sadness from us parents as pity.
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I also get "the look" when I am dressed up purty in a pink dress and heels and all the girly stuff for a night out to a nice place (especially if meeting someone new) and I get in or out of my almost 20 year old beater truck. Its not a good look but still cracks me up.
Oh, I love this! It reminds me of a woman i used to know who wore combat boots with a dress. I think it is a pretty cool look. :)
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There are two distinct looks, and both have been covered here.
One is the look when people realize you have money and they wouldn't have guessed it. Love getting that one and it pops up when buying a car or when people talk about their car payments or mortgages.
The other look is when they see you heating up leftovers or driving an old beater. Sometimes that borders on contempt, eye rolling or sympathy depending on the situation. Those make me smile and think "If only you knew...."
I think there's a third where they don't believe you or they think you must be a criminal to have that much money.
Or at trust fund baby. My realtor asked me if I was a trust fund baby. Umm... no! I bought an extreme fixer upper on a tight budget. And besides she saw all of my financial information.
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I once got "the look" at the front door of my own house. A solicitor came by trying to sell a quarterly pest control service or some other nonsense. It was my first house that I owned myself, I had just bought it, and I was about 26 years old. When I answered the door, the salesman asked me if my parents were home. That was a proud moment for me.
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"The Look" would be a step up for me. I was digging up a flower bed on a hot day in my yard and the FEDEX guy thought I was the gardener. He asked me if the owners were home...
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Was there a problem with people showing up to Real Estate closings and saying, "Just Kidding! As if we had that kind of money..."?
[/quote]
Literally happened to me, almost word for word. They lied to the bank regarding assets/income/debts. Bank somehow failed to notice (until 3 days to closing). When we asked if they could up their down payment, they asked what down payment? Apparently, they didn't think that anyone would actually require them to bring the down payment they promised. They used the down payment on a vacation (since they didn't need it for anything else, ya know, like buying a house.) That whole situation really sucked.
I get "the look" when I insist of fixing the worthless jalopy for the Nth time. I always figure: "would I buy this car for the $x it will take to fix?" So far, the answer has been "yes" everytime.
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I get the look a lot but the best was this time...
A few years ago my cat got really sick and needed a lot of tests and what not. I noticed that the vet had a 0% financing offer through Care Credit. I asked the admin at the front desk for an application. One of the questions asked the total household monthly income, which being a engineer, can be more than the yearly income of some folks. When I took it back and turned it in, the admin told me that she needed my monthly income, I told her it was correct. Then she stated that I couldn't use my husband's income, so I changed it and removed about 20%. Then I got *the look*...
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I also get "the look" when I am dressed up purty in a pink dress and heels and all the girly stuff for a night out to a nice place (especially if meeting someone new) and I get in or out of my almost 20 year old beater truck. Its not a good look but still cracks me up.
Oh, I love this! It reminds me of a woman i used to know who wore combat boots with a dress. I think it is a pretty cool look. :)
I think women owning old trucks is probably pretty common in many rural areas but here in fancy pants metro LA/OC is pretty unusual. New SUVs and luxury sedans but not many trucks and very very rarely old beater trucks. Mine sadly died and I have a fancy rental vehicle now so fit in better with my fancy friends and area. But can't wait to get the truck up and running again as I do miss all the disdainful looks I get ;-). Well I'm moving to a place (ski town) where beater trucks are probably more "normal" so doubt I'll get the same looks. Fun while it lasted.
I admit, I always felt sexiest (and got the best "looks") when I was wearing a well fitting pair of jeans, fitted top, boots, and driving/getting out of my beater pickup with my happy-as-shit dog in the back. Man, I miss that dog! (and the old jeans size...)
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I've gotten "the look" so many times, I almost don't notice anymore.
Female, started programming in Jr. High. Work in male dominated field (former electrician, now a related but different field). Got pregnant in high school (then got married shortly after). Bought house young (I was 19, then husband was 20, money came from what I earned as a kid delivering the newspaper, through jobs in high school). Ex left when I was 22. Bought current house when I was 26(?) Sent my son to a private school, where I was only one of two single moms (the other's parents were paying for her kid to go there) and one of very few working moms. Many of those families struggled to pay the tuition, while I was asking if I could get a discount for paying it in one lump sum at the beginning of the year.
Put myself through an associates degree while working 30+ hours a week. Through it all, I have been a saver, lived frugally, etc, etc. I've even gone on some amazing vacations (including several trips to Europe, the most recent was for 5 weeks). People are shocked when they find out I have always paid a credit card balance in full (except when I had one with 0% interest, then I would just pay it in full before the interest kicked in.)
I look young, my son looks old, so I get some really confused looks when he is with me.
I also do a lot of my own repairs. The guy at the nearby hardware store has pretty much stopped questioning me when I need some parts/tools, and will just help me find them. I still threw him though when we found that a tool I wanted didn't exist (or at least, he'd never heard of one and they didn't have any), and I made the comment "looks like I'll have to make it myself."
Let me just say that you are a hero and deserve a medal for being the kind of person that makes our world a better place. If i were single, I might be trying to meet you for a cup of (reasonably priced) coffee. Kudos.
Aw, shucks <blushes and fidgets with my foot in the dirt...> Mostly the determination came from not wanting to be a statistic.
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One thing I have learned over the years is that when meeting someone new and you dont know there situation always assume the other person is in the best/most respectable possible situation, if you are wrong your foot wont be in your mouth. If they say they work in a dentist office assume they are the dentist; they say they work at a university you address them as dr/prof; they say they work at the shipping port you ask if they drive the big cranes; you see someone on a cool bike you assume it is theirs. This rule does not have a gender or age caveat.
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I also get "the look" when I am dressed up purty in a pink dress and heels and all the girly stuff for a night out to a nice place (especially if meeting someone new) and I get in or out of my almost 20 year old beater truck. Its not a good look but still cracks me up.
Oh, I love this! It reminds me of a woman i used to know who wore combat boots with a dress. I think it is a pretty cool look. :)
I think women owning old trucks is probably pretty common in many rural areas but here in fancy pants metro LA/OC is pretty unusual. New SUVs and luxury sedans but not many trucks and very very rarely old beater trucks. Mine sadly died and I have a fancy rental vehicle now so fit in better with my fancy friends and area. But can't wait to get the truck up and running again as I do miss all the disdainful looks I get ;-). Well I'm moving to a place (ski town) where beater trucks are probably more "normal" so doubt I'll get the same looks. Fun while it lasted.
I admit, I always felt sexiest (and got the best "looks") when I was wearing a well fitting pair of jeans, fitted top, boots, and driving/getting out of my beater pickup with my happy-as-shit dog in the back. Man, I miss that dog! (and the old jeans size...)
haha me too. Before the truck I had an old jeep CJ (lived in the mountains) soft top no doors so I could rock my inner Daisy Duke. Plus a couple of motorcycles I had for years. But no one seemed to think they were mine. I don't know how many times I've been told how nice it was of my dh/bf/random dude to let me drive his jeep or motorcycles. Back when I first FIREd I spent much of the first year doing long solo motorcycle camping trips loaded with gear and ALWAYS got asked (when parked) where my male driver was at. Still do when in my truck on a solo road trip. Usually get the look of surprise which us another kind of look I guess.
One of my favorite memories is my double take/ "look" when we picked up my mom after a solo hike.
Her attire:
Walking stick a foot taller than her, stout enough to be suitable for Friar Tuck.
Serious hiking boots. Dog nearby.
A gun at her hip.
Micky Mouse t-shirt.
So proud. Still brings a warm feeling.
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One thing I have learned over the years is that when meeting someone new and you dont know there situation always assume the other person is in the best/most respectable possible situation, if you are wrong your foot wont be in your mouth. If they say they work in a dentist office assume they are the dentist; they say they work at a university you address them as dr/prof; they say they work at the shipping port you ask if they drive the big cranes; you see someone on a cool bike you assume it is theirs. This rule does not have a gender or age caveat.
This is really good advice. I remember one time in my 20s, I was living in Cambridge MA and working at a publishing company with offices in Harvard Square. My roommate invited some friends over and we were all chatting... somehow it came up that I worked in Harvard Square and this guy (who was a very recent Harvard grad) asked me "Oh, really? What store do you work in?" I was so insulted that he would assume that someone "like me" (whatever that was - female? wearing jeans? having a roommate? who knows) could only possibly have a retail job, in an area chock-full of interesting companies and non-profits (not to mention Harvard U).
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One thing I have learned over the years is that when meeting someone new and you dont know there situation always assume the other person is in the best/most respectable possible situation, if you are wrong your foot wont be in your mouth. If they say they work in a dentist office assume they are the dentist; they say they work at a university you address them as dr/prof; they say they work at the shipping port you ask if they drive the big cranes; you see someone on a cool bike you assume it is theirs. This rule does not have a gender or age caveat.
Excellent advice. When I was a boy, I worked as my father's assistant in an HVAC business. Once, we went to a large estate with a large house, many barns and buildings and several employees doing various tasks. When we arrived at the job site (an HVAC unit for one of the outbuildings needed some maintenance) we were shortly joined by a gentleman driving a 25-year-old pickup truck. He wore cowboy boots with his overall legs half in and half out, chewed tobacco, wore a cap from the local feed store and looked like he didn't have two nickels to rub together. Of course, he was the owner of the whole shootin' match. He had invented some sort of catfish bait and sold it all over the country.
Fortunately, I was always on my best behavior when out working with my father so I didn't embarrass myself but I would have turned red if the fellow could have read my thoughts!
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One thing I have learned over the years is that when meeting someone new and you dont know there situation always assume the other person is in the best/most respectable possible situation, if you are wrong your foot wont be in your mouth. If they say they work in a dentist office assume they are the dentist; they say they work at a university you address them as dr/prof; they say they work at the shipping port you ask if they drive the big cranes; you see someone on a cool bike you assume it is theirs. This rule does not have a gender or age caveat.
This is really good advice. I remember one time in my 20s, I was living in Cambridge MA and working at a publishing company with offices in Harvard Square. My roommate invited some friends over and we were all chatting... somehow it came up that I worked in Harvard Square and this guy (who was a very recent Harvard grad) asked me "Oh, really? What store do you work in?" I was so insulted that he would assume that someone "like me" (whatever that was - female? wearing jeans? having a roommate? who knows) could only possibly have a retail job, in an area chock-full of interesting companies and non-profits (not to mention Harvard U).
I'm old enough that the new assumption for a female is teacher. People always think I'm a teacher. Um, no. I'm a program manager for a large non-profit.
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I got the "look" and the accompanying interrogation last night after letting it slip that I own "only" 4 pairs of shoes... They looked at me like they'd just noticed I had two heads!
The ensuing 45 minute long interrogation as to exactly why do I not own more than 4 pairs of shoes, including one bloke who had packed more pairs than I own for a two night course away form home, then expanded from shoes to clothes "but you need different shoes to go with your different (???) jeans"...
Apparently these were unacceptable answers:
them: "what do you wear with a dress in winter"
me: "I don't own a winter dress"
them: "what do you wear with a dress if it's raining?"
me: "I don't wear a dress if its raining and if it rains while I'm already wearing a dress I guess my legs will get wet"
Despite the fact that bikes are like a mustacian sacred cow I must also mention that one co-worker admitted she had more shoes for cycling than I owned in total - and even that she owns more bikes than I have shoes!
Arg! Apparently I need to "learn how to shop" and "let myself have nice things" - thank you very much!!!
I DIDN'T point out the car one of them arrived in which I know cost more than her annual salary!
It took longer than it should have to divert the conversation back to more common ground.
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I get it occasionally when I tell people I'm 52. I like that "look" (I figure sooner or later Father Time will catch up to me and I won't get in anymore).
When they ask what my secret is I tell them without hesitation -- "no kids." ;-)
LOL. I keep reading these posts from people who look younger than they are and also don't have kids and wondering, "You guys know these two facts are closely linked, right?"
Signed,
The lady who hasn't been mistaken for being younger than she is since simultaneously becoming pregnant with her first child and getting gray hair at the ripe old age of 26.
I feel similarly! I have been going grey since very young, and since having kids have never ever been mistaken for being younger. I don't ever get the "look"'except perhaps one of pity, lol.
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Ah, "The Look". I get sideways looks for riding a bike as a mode of transportation. It's the look of utter disbelief when clerks/tellers/coworkers/classmates find out that I actually do have a car but choose to ride instead. Inconceivable!
Banks are the best. Backpack + helmet + middle-of-day = must be poor student :) Love it!
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I get it occasionally when I tell people I'm 52. I like that "look" (I figure sooner or later Father Time will catch up to me and I won't get in anymore).
When they ask what my secret is I tell them without hesitation -- "no kids." ;-)
LOL. I keep reading these posts from people who look younger than they are and also don't have kids and wondering, "You guys know these two facts are closely linked, right?"
Signed,
The lady who hasn't been mistaken for being younger than she is since simultaneously becoming pregnant with her first child and getting gray hair at the ripe old age of 26.
I feel similarly! I have been going grey since very young, and since having kids have never ever been mistaken for being younger. I don't ever get the "look"'except perhaps one of pity, lol.
I know someone who, on her 29th birthday, on her way into a movie theater was asked "Are you an adult?" Then at 30, she went gray (like full on Daenerys Targaryen gray) and hasn't had that problem since. She likes to say she looked 15 until she looked 50.
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One thing I have learned over the years is that when meeting someone new and you dont know there situation always assume the other person is in the best/most respectable possible situation, if you are wrong your foot wont be in your mouth. If they say they work in a dentist office assume they are the dentist; they say they work at a university you address them as dr/prof; they say they work at the shipping port you ask if they drive the big cranes; you see someone on a cool bike you assume it is theirs. This rule does not have a gender or age caveat.
Reading this made me realize I gave the Look once.
I did a triathlon once, a long time ago. On the morning of the event, riding the bus from the finish line area up to the swim start, I saw an 80 year old skinny man who was obviously a fellow competitor.
"Well, at least I won't come in dead last," I clearly remember thinking.
I shouldn't have assumed. The guy beat me by nearly an hour.
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Reading this made me realize I gave the Look once.
I did a triathlon once, a long time ago. On the morning of the event, riding the bus from the finish line area up to the swim start, I saw an 80 year old skinny man who was obviously a fellow competitor.
"Well, at least I won't come in dead last," I clearly remember thinking.
I shouldn't have assumed. The guy beat me by nearly an hour.
Yep, every week I go through the ParkRun results, to see how many over 70 beat me, sometimes it's only 2, other times it's 3!
One of my favorite memories is my double take/ "look" when we picked up my mom after a solo hike.
Her attire:
Walking stick a foot taller than her, stout enough to be suitable for Friar Tuck.
Serious hiking boots. Dog nearby.
A gun at her hip.
Micky Mouse t-shirt.
So proud. Still brings a warm feeling.
Your mum is a badass.
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I got the "look" and the accompanying interrogation last night after letting it slip that I own "only" 4 pairs of shoes... They looked at me like they'd just noticed I had two heads!
Heh. I have a pair of sneakers and a pair of boots.
If I get invited to a wedding or have to attend a funeral, I guess I'll have to buy some. Until then, I'm good.
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I've run into this when renting houses with roommates. Most recently, we were renting a house for $2900/month and the landlord gave me the look when I said I could just write a personal check for the $8700 for first month, last month, and security deposit if they were ok with that or I could get them a cashier's check later that day. Apparently most people they dealt with don't keep $9000 in their checking accounts and need time to borrow money or complain about requiring the last month too.
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I've run into this when renting houses with roommates. Most recently, we were renting a house for $2900/month and the landlord gave me the look when I said I could just write a personal check for the $8700 for first month, last month, and security deposit if they were ok with that or I could get them a cashier's check later that day. Apparently most people they dealt with don't keep $9000 in their checking accounts and need time to borrow money or complain about requiring the last month too.
Oh yea, I got that once, similar circumstance, forgot about that one. My GF and I were trying to rent a house. I was unemployed at the time (collecting unemployment, taking my time because I still had a positive savings rate, so was looking for a job I really wanted). My GF was in school full time, not working. I didn't even think about how bad we looked on paper, because we were doing great, had plenty of savings, etc. The property manager said:
PM: good application and I feel like you'd be great tenants, but I know the owner isn't going to be comfortable with you not having reliable income
Me: oh, hmm. what if I put down an extra deposit down, like a financial security deposit?
PM: that might work, how much can you put down?
Me: *shrug* how much do you want?
PM: *the look* a full month's rent?
Me: oh that's all? yea no problem
Got the place no problem, lived there a couple years, got all the deposits back at the end
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I find it amazing that people my age (fifties) still finance cars and other smallish purchases.
Worse than millennials. Because by that age those people really should know better.
It all depends. I bought a new car last year (the one before that was 2004 and I still own it). I financed through the manufacturer: 0% interest. (and they gave me an additional $500 discount for doing so).
Sometimes, financing makes cents [sic].
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Reading this made me realize I gave the Look once.
I did a triathlon once, a long time ago. On the morning of the event, riding the bus from the finish line area up to the swim start, I saw an 80 year old skinny man who was obviously a fellow competitor.
"Well, at least I won't come in dead last," I clearly remember thinking.
I shouldn't have assumed. The guy beat me by nearly an hour.
Yep, every week I go through the ParkRun results, to see how many over 70 beat me, sometimes it's only 2, other times it's 3!
One of my favorite memories is my double take/ "look" when we picked up my mom after a solo hike.
Her attire:
Walking stick a foot taller than her, stout enough to be suitable for Friar Tuck.
Serious hiking boots. Dog nearby.
A gun at her hip.
Micky Mouse t-shirt.
So proud. Still brings a warm feeling.
Your mum is a badass.
I don't run many races (too cheap), but used to. I've run a couple of them this year, and I see the same guys I saw 7-8 years ago when running a lot. They were in their 60s then, 70s now, and yes they still beat me!
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Does "The Look" for being visibly trans count?
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Buying a car with cash. Had to show them my bank account balance before they would draw up the paperwork.
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I got the look when this health care person heard that I worked out 7 days a week, 2x on Saturday and Sunday. That was when I was younger, wish I still had the discipline now.
I got the look when I showed my friends I walked 33k steps a day.
I gave my friend the look when she told me she got a loan for her car. None of my other friends bought cars with loans except her. I gave this guy the look when he bragged about how much money he had, how high his property tax was, etc. I just didn't tell him I had quite a few times more than him and my property tax was also more, not something I wanted to brag about or disclose.
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Does "The Look" for being visibly trans count?
This is a look I am all too familiar with. I run a trans support org here and my youngest is trans.
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I don't get "the look" much anymore. It happened once or twice at the bank when we bought our most recent house...I guess asking for a six-figure cashiers' check for a down payment can do that even when you're a white dude in the tech industry.
I did get it a few times back when I was in school. I think my favorite was when I was in grad school earning something like $1,500/month as a teaching assistant. I brought in the form to our department's HR lady to sign up for the university's 403(b) plan and contribute $1,300/month. She definitely asked if I was sure about this. I had plenty of money saved up from a summer internship to pay my living expenses for the school year, so I was happy to put essentially all of my after-tax salary in the retirement plan.
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I generally look a lot like people expect me to look - middle aged, slightly paunchy middle class dude with kids and a mortgage.
I see no reason to tell them about my financial situation, it seems the 'normal thing' around here is to pretend that the cost of things doesn't matter or isn't a problem (i.e. for a new hot water tank at an unexpected time). In my case that may be true, though I am sure many others are living on debt.
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One thing I have learned over the years is that when meeting someone new and you dont know there situation always assume the other person is in the best/most respectable possible situation, if you are wrong your foot wont be in your mouth. If they say they work in a dentist office assume they are the dentist; they say they work at a university you address them as dr/prof; they say they work at the shipping port you ask if they drive the big cranes; you see someone on a cool bike you assume it is theirs. This rule does not have a gender or age caveat.
That's very wise and great advice. I try not to make assumptions but I often do - and not always good ones - so will try to remember this for the future.
+1 and +1 - Very good advice. and I also make assumptions that aren't the best.
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One more thing that I now remember after reading all of these. Years ago we bought our first house. Ours was one of the first house being built in the entire neighborhood, so there were a lot of construction workers running around building other houses when we moved in.
I was mowing my lawn one day with my tshirt and shorts when one of my neighbor stopped by and ask how much do I charge for mowing the lawn. They like to have their lawn mowed as well lol. I guess I do not look like someone who could own a house.
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One more thing that I now remember after reading all of these. Years ago we bought our first house. Ours was one of the first house being built in the entire neighborhood, so there were a lot of construction workers running around building other houses when we moved in.
I was mowing my lawn one day with my tshirt and shorts when one of my neighbor stopped by and ask how much do I charge for mowing the lawn. They like to have their lawn mowed as well lol. I guess I do not look like someone who could own a house.
What did you charge him?
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One more thing that I now remember after reading all of these. Years ago we bought our first house. Ours was one of the first house being built in the entire neighborhood, so there were a lot of construction workers running around building other houses when we moved in.
I was mowing my lawn one day with my tshirt and shorts when one of my neighbor stopped by and ask how much do I charge for mowing the lawn. They like to have their lawn mowed as well lol. I guess I do not look like someone who could own a house.
That's funny!
I mow my neighbor's lawn for free. She's older and her husband passed away, but before he did so, he prearranged with me and my husband to take care of a few things. Every year, she asks if this is the year she should go ahead and hire a lawn service, and I say no because I want need the exercise. I probably don't mow quite as often as she'd prefer (10 days instead of 7) because I work full-time, but she understands and is patient. :)
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Friends were talking about mortgage payments. They asked me what my mortgage payment is.
Me: It was $x,xxx/month
Friend: Was?
Me: Don't have one anymore.
Friend: You've only lived there 6 years.
Me: Yeah.
He was quiet for a little bit. I didn't really even think about it when I said "was".
To me those conversations make no sense. You have no idea what the person rate or terms are and what they put down for a down payment. Plus, are they including taxes and insurance in that monthly amount? You would have to ask follow up questions to see how they really compare to you or others so what's the point?
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One thing I have learned over the years is that when meeting someone new and you dont know there situation always assume the other person is in the best/most respectable possible situation, if you are wrong your foot wont be in your mouth. If they say they work in a dentist office assume they are the dentist; they say they work at a university you address them as dr/prof; they say they work at the shipping port you ask if they drive the big cranes; you see someone on a cool bike you assume it is theirs. This rule does not have a gender or age caveat.
+1000000000
I do this from a "everyone you meet is your teacher" perspective.
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We're all forgetting the most important one. "The Look" you get or will get when you tell people you retired at 40ish or under. Especially if, instead of looking like you live a very high life and therefore won the lottery, you look like you live in a van down by the river and are eating government cheese and are therefore a welfare bum living off the government dole. I usually just want to smack people upside the head with a copy of "The Millionaire Next door" who think that. I don't but I wanna.
I don't think that I look like I'm living in a van down by the river.
But sometimes I wonder. I get occasional looks. I'm not into fashion, my hair is wash and go (almost always in a bun. I get my hair cut into a bob 2x a year and get so many compliments.) I don't wear makeup. I drive an old car. The looks are "why are you such a schlub?" I get a little leeway for being an engineer.
OTOH, one of my friends (our kids are in school together) once said "It must be nice to be able to afford summer camp for your kid and not even use it." (Last week before school started, we pulled our kid out of camp early 2 days because he had doctor and dentist appts.)
So. Once or twice I was counseled by friends in their 50s to not quit my job in frustration because it's really hard to get rehired at that age. On one hand, I get it - I do like work, so there is that aspect. I tried to explain that I could quit and never work again, but the look I got was so strange I just decided to keep my mouth shut after that.
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We're all forgetting the most important one. "The Look" you get or will get when you tell people you retired at 40ish or under. Especially if, instead of looking like you live a very high life and therefore won the lottery, you look like you live in a van down by the river and are eating government cheese and are therefore a welfare bum living off the government dole. I usually just want to smack people upside the head with a copy of "The Millionaire Next door" who think that. I don't but I wanna.
I don't think that I look like I'm living in a van down by the river.
But sometimes I wonder. I get occasional looks. I'm not into fashion, my hair is wash and go (almost always in a bun. I get my hair cut into a bob 2x a year and get so many compliments.) I don't wear makeup. I drive an old car. The looks are "why are you such a schlub?" I get a little leeway for being an engineer.
I used to think that I didn't look like I was living in a van down by the river, but sometimes life gives you reason to wonder.
I had to go downtown for jury duty a couple years ago. The first morning that I headed out I was wearing an old t-shirt, baggy grey hoodie, some not too badly faded jeans, my 15 year old leather jacket, and some running shoes (with my beat up backpack). I was happy not to have to dress up or shave for work and cheerfully rode the bus down to the subway, then took the subway to the courthouse. I got there more than an hour early, so in a very unusual splurge of wastefulness decided to buy a cup of coffee. Since it was a sunny November day and all the benches were taken, I found an out of the way spot near the courthouse doors, sat down, and drank my coffee.
About ten minutes later a dude threw some coins in my (now empty) cup. I was like 'Huh. That was weird.' But then it happened again, so I figured it would be best if I stood up and went somewhere else. Apparently my default natural state of dress is 'street person' style. :P
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We're all forgetting the most important one. "The Look" you get or will get when you tell people you retired at 40ish or under. Especially if, instead of looking like you live a very high life and therefore won the lottery, you look like you live in a van down by the river and are eating government cheese and are therefore a welfare bum living off the government dole. I usually just want to smack people upside the head with a copy of "The Millionaire Next door" who think that. I don't but I wanna.
I don't think that I look like I'm living in a van down by the river.
But sometimes I wonder. I get occasional looks. I'm not into fashion, my hair is wash and go (almost always in a bun. I get my hair cut into a bob 2x a year and get so many compliments.) I don't wear makeup. I drive an old car. The looks are "why are you such a schlub?" I get a little leeway for being an engineer.
I used to think that I didn't look like I was living in a van down by the river, but sometimes life gives you reason to wonder.
I had to go downtown for jury duty a couple years ago. The first morning that I headed out I was wearing an old t-shirt, baggy grey hoodie, some not too badly faded jeans, my 15 year old leather jacket, and some running shoes (with my beat up backpack). I was happy not to have to dress up or shave for work and cheerfully rode the bus down to the subway, then took the subway to the courthouse. I got there more than an hour early, so in a very unusual splurge of wastefulness decided to buy a cup of coffee. Since it was a sunny November day and all the benches were taken, I found an out of the way spot near the courthouse doors, sat down, and drank my coffee.
About ten minutes later a dude threw some coins in my (now empty) cup. I was like 'Huh. That was weird.' But then it happened again, so I figured it would be best if I stood up and went somewhere else. Apparently my default natural state of dress is 'street person' style. :P
Awesome! Did the change pay for the coffee?
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I had to go downtown for jury duty a couple years ago. The first morning that I headed out I was wearing an old t-shirt, baggy grey hoodie, some not too badly faded jeans, my 15 year old leather jacket, and some running shoes (with my beat up backpack). I was happy not to have to dress up or shave for work and cheerfully rode the bus down to the subway, then took the subway to the courthouse. I got there more than an hour early, so in a very unusual splurge of wastefulness decided to buy a cup of coffee. Since it was a sunny November day and all the benches were taken, I found an out of the way spot near the courthouse doors, sat down, and drank my coffee.
About ten minutes later a dude threw some coins in my (now empty) cup. I was like 'Huh. That was weird.' But then it happened again, so I figured it would be best if I stood up and went somewhere else. Apparently my default natural state of dress is 'street person' style. :P
You should have stayed! I would have! ;-)
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We're all forgetting the most important one. "The Look" you get or will get when you tell people you retired at 40ish or under. Especially if, instead of looking like you live a very high life and therefore won the lottery, you look like you live in a van down by the river and are eating government cheese and are therefore a welfare bum living off the government dole. I usually just want to smack people upside the head with a copy of "The Millionaire Next door" who think that. I don't but I wanna.
I don't think that I look like I'm living in a van down by the river.
But sometimes I wonder. I get occasional looks. I'm not into fashion, my hair is wash and go (almost always in a bun. I get my hair cut into a bob 2x a year and get so many compliments.) I don't wear makeup. I drive an old car. The looks are "why are you such a schlub?" I get a little leeway for being an engineer.
I used to think that I didn't look like I was living in a van down by the river, but sometimes life gives you reason to wonder.
I had to go downtown for jury duty a couple years ago. The first morning that I headed out I was wearing an old t-shirt, baggy grey hoodie, some not too badly faded jeans, my 15 year old leather jacket, and some running shoes (with my beat up backpack). I was happy not to have to dress up or shave for work and cheerfully rode the bus down to the subway, then took the subway to the courthouse. I got there more than an hour early, so in a very unusual splurge of wastefulness decided to buy a cup of coffee. Since it was a sunny November day and all the benches were taken, I found an out of the way spot near the courthouse doors, sat down, and drank my coffee.
About ten minutes later a dude threw some coins in my (now empty) cup. I was like 'Huh. That was weird.' But then it happened again, so I figured it would be best if I stood up and went somewhere else. Apparently my default natural state of dress is 'street person' style. :P
Awesome! Did the change pay for the coffee?
Yes!
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I got the look a lot when I bought my house at 25, as a single woman. It was a fixer-upper, so I had a parade of contractors and workers coming through. And I got the same question if of ownership. And the same look. I am 33 now but still look fairly young, or so I'd like to think ha ha! So I still get looks here and there.
I also get the look from coworkers at my part-time job, more so from newer coworkers. I work at a nonprofit full of recent grads, and many don't know how old I am myself. They don't know of my second job, or that it's a full-time job, or how much my salary is (it's not a lot, but it is nearly twice what they would get full time at the non profit. They don't know I own a rental property (my former residential that I am actually renting to a coworker). I often get lumped into conversations of brokeness and I just twiddle my thumbs and try to look normal. If they knew I put twice their paycheck into savings each month, I don't think they would know how to act around me (many of them think I am in my mid 20's like them).
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I mow my neighbor's lawn for free. She's older and her husband passed away, but before he did so, he prearranged with me and my husband to take care of a few things. Every year, she asks if this is the year she should go ahead and hire a lawn service, and I say no because I want need the exercise. I probably don't mow quite as often as she'd prefer (10 days instead of 7) because I work full-time, but she understands and is patient. :)
I don't know that the look happened but I know there was a reaction.
A friend in his 70s visited his aunt in her 80s, she's done well picking stocks
and is FI+. He got around to discussing a WILL and found she is giving the house
to the guy that has been mowing the lawn. (That's when I think there was a look)
"He ask don't you already pay him?"
She said, "Yes" After asking a few more questions about their relationship,
I think he got her thinking more about her nieces.
Also working at convincing her to remove the attorney as the executor and,
change the will to some other form, because in that state the attorney gets a percent
just to start and that would have been in the $35,000 range.
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Does "The Look" for being visibly trans count?
This is a look I am all too familiar with. I run a trans support org here and my youngest is trans.
This is an awful look. I'm so sorry you guys have to go through that.
I used to work in the local welfare office some years ago and we had a few trans clients. I was absolutely shocked to see what they went through, both from other people in the waiting room and from my own coworkers. I tried to talk about it to my coworkers and to our boss, but I could just not get my point across why it is hateful to address someone with the wrong pronouns on purpose or to act like being trans is something like a dangerous sexual perversion. I had heard from a trans friend that these things happened, and I believed him, but until you get a glimpse of how some people actually behave, you don't truly believe how bad it can get. I did apologise for the behaviour of my coworker, but there's no apology possible for such humiliation. The damage has been done and can't be undone.
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Does "The Look" for being visibly trans count?
This is a look I am all too familiar with. I run a trans support org here and my youngest is trans.
This is an awful look. I'm so sorry you guys have to go through that.
I used to work in the local welfare office some years ago and we had a few trans clients. I was absolutely shocked to see what they went through, both from other people in the waiting room and from my own coworkers. I tried to talk about it to my coworkers and to our boss, but I could just not get my point across why it is hateful to address someone with the wrong pronouns on purpose or to act like being trans is something like a dangerous sexual perversion. I had heard from a trans friend that these things happened, and I believed him, but until you get a glimpse of how some people actually behave, you don't truly believe how bad it can get. I did apologise for the behaviour of my coworker, but there's no apology possible for such humiliation. The damage has been done and can't be undone.
For anyone interested, I recently watched Norm MacDonald interview Caitlyn Jenner.
While I really like Norm, he is not everyone's cup of tea, but you might enjoy him interviewing Caitlyn. I enjoyed the interview, learned several things I did not know about Caitlyn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuldL1m6FAs
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Got the look when I went to HR to request that 100% of my paycheck be put into a retirement account. I don't want any of it taxed nor to have any of it hit my checking account. They think I'm crazy...
Can you walk me through this one? How can 100% of your paycheck not be taxed?
-Marley
As a teacher, between the years I bought, and my 457 and 403B, I could have a zero balance. It's the strategy Ed Mills uses on themillionaireeducator.com.
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Got the look when I went to HR to request that 100% of my paycheck be put into a retirement account. I don't want any of it taxed nor to have any of it hit my checking account. They think I'm crazy...
Can you walk me through this one? How can 100% of your paycheck not be taxed?
-Marley
As a teacher, between the years I bought, and my 457 and 403B, I could have a zero balance. It's the strategy Ed Mills uses on themillionaireeducator.com.
Yep, I'm a teacher. That's it exactly.
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Also note that investment earnings are taxable, where upfront savings from the price reduction are taken at face value.
Also note that the lender will require you to carry collision insurance, which you might not want.
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Got the look when I went to HR to request that 100% of my paycheck be put into a retirement account. I don't want any of it taxed nor to have any of it hit my checking account. They think I'm crazy...
Can you walk me through this one? How can 100% of your paycheck not be taxed?
-Marley
It's not really possible. You pay FICA taxes regardless of how much you contribute to a retirement account (except for HSA). So assuming we're not talking about HSA contributions here, the maximum you could allocate to a retirement account should be 92.35% of gross. This does completely avoid federal and [probably?] state taxes though. There are additional complications if you have health insurance deductions and such from your paycheck.
IME from front-loading 401k, you also have to pay some federal and state tax, because (as I understand it) FICA is not deductible from AGI. In other words, you have to pay federal and state taxes on the income used to pay the FICA tax. I never thought too hard about it, but it seems like minor double taxation. I trust my payroll and ADP to do it right, though.
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I got the look recently when I replaced my faithful 2002 Saturn SL2. It had just reached 194k and it needed roughly $1500 worth of work to get it back up to fighting status (shocks all around, muffler, AC, etc) engine was good so was the 5 speed gearbox. Even without AC it was pretty much $1000 of work.
Wife and I decided that while my highschool car was great, it was time for something a bit...more...universal for her needs and mine.
I tell my dad, hey! I just bought a new car!
Dad: You're Joking
*straight face* no.
Dad: What you get?
Me: a Camry.
Dad: Good choice, what year?
Me: 2002
Dad: wait...didn't you just sell a...
Me: it was a good year wasn't it?
Dad: *look*
Needless to say, my dad afterward was impressed with the miles/price and thought it would last a while for me. He definitely thinks I'm cheap.
I'm a car guy too--so I know cars a money pits, but I love them so damn much.
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I'm a car guy too
I don't think you get to sell a 2000 Saturn and buy a 2002 Camry and call yourself a car guy ;-P
Bravo though, good choice.
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I'm a car guy too
I don't think you get to sell a 2000 Saturn and buy a 2002 Camry and call yourself a car guy ;-P
Bravo though, good choice.
A few months ago, after my 2009 blew up I replaced it with a 2001 and got some "looks" whenever asked about it.
There are many flavors of "car guy." I consider myself one, and I've only ever driven subcompacts and station wagons. :P
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I enjoy working on our cars from maintenance to some light mods, so I consider that a hobby and it save us some cash. Instead of being inside all day, I get to be outside, enjoy the weather (I only work outside when the weather is nice ha!).
The new neighbor came by the other day, wanted to introduce himself. He saw our garage door was open. I was doing oil change, tire rotation among other things. He was just surprised I work on my own cars, willing and enjoy to get dirty. He was like, you like working on the car? I got the look haha..
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He was like, you like working on the car? I got the look haha..
I'd flip that around with 'of course, what's not to like?' :-)
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Does "The Look" for being visibly trans count?
This is a look I am all too familiar with. I run a trans support org here and my youngest is trans.
This is an awful look. I'm so sorry you guys have to go through that.
I used to work in the local welfare office some years ago and we had a few trans clients. I was absolutely shocked to see what they went through, both from other people in the waiting room and from my own coworkers. I tried to talk about it to my coworkers and to our boss, but I could just not get my point across why it is hateful to address someone with the wrong pronouns on purpose or to act like being trans is something like a dangerous sexual perversion. I had heard from a trans friend that these things happened, and I believed him, but until you get a glimpse of how some people actually behave, you don't truly believe how bad it can get. I did apologise for the behaviour of my coworker, but there's no apology possible for such humiliation. The damage has been done and can't be undone.
On the plus(ish) side, it pushed me towards home ownership and trying to achieve FI. My counter to "the look" is being visibly trans AND visibly successful. Just not the pretend kind of successful that leads to filing for bankruptcy in 3 years.
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I'm getting the look now when I have to explain that I don't work Fridays.
"oh, did you go to four 10's?"
"no, four 8's" (here's where the look comes in)
"did you have to take a pay cut?"
"yes"
"oh, I'm sorry!"
"don't be, I asked for it!" (the look returns)
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He was like, you like working on the car? I got the look haha..
I'd flip that around with 'of course, what's not to like?' :-)
Just did an oil change and I was in a hurry so I ended up not noticing the funnel came out of the hole and poured 1.5l of oil on my garage floor. Didn't like that.
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He was like, you like working on the car? I got the look haha..
I'd flip that around with 'of course, what's not to like?' :-)
Just did an oil change and I was in a hurry so I ended up not noticing the funnel came out of the hole and poured 1.5l of oil on my garage floor. Didn't like that.
My finest work was forgetting to put the drain plug back in and pouring 3.5 quarts of motor oil straight through my engine onto my driveway.
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I'm getting the look now when I have to explain that I don't work Fridays.
"oh, did you go to four 10's?"
"no, four 8's" (here's where the look comes in)
"did you have to take a pay cut?"
"yes"
"oh, I'm sorry!"
"don't be, I asked for it!" (the look returns)
ha ha ha this is funny
Short story: I have two kids, and I took a reduction in hours twice when they were young (totally acceptable if you are a mom, even still hard to get).
In any event, late last year one of my coworkers/ former bosses (I've had almost as many bosses here as years here) asked me about "the deal" when working PT, because I'm the only one he knows who has done it. Basically, he's early 60s, getting frustrated, and wanted to start easing into retirement. He doesn't need the full salary, but he does need the benefits, and was getting tired of the BS. I said "30 hours to keep the benefits". (I did 30 hrs the first time around and 32 the second, because part time is still salaried. So I found that even at 30 hrs I was working 32. Might as well get paid for the 2.)
At first he was bummed because he was hoping for 25, but then he realized that he could just take PTO for those 5 hours during most weeks.
Anyway, you'd be surprised at the comments I've gotten from other senior (as in, high in the company, and also older than me - meaning late 50's early 60's) people about his "great deal". I said "what do you mean?" "Well, he just doesn't have to work as many hours, and he gets paid for them! So, here we are all working 50 hrs and only getting paid for 40, and he gets to work 30 and get paid for 30. It's not really fair."
I pointed out that even at "30 hours" there are weeks he's working more than that, and only getting paid for 30. Yes, having that kind of deal, if you are firm about your hours (for me, it was that I had to leave at X time to get the kids, for him it's just not coming into work until noon some days) means you are better off. Less "free work".
What these people COMPLETELY missed is that the company can't really take advantage of you (completely) without your permission. You don't HAVE to work 50 hours a week.
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What these people COMPLETELY missed is that the company can't really take advantage of you (completely) without your permission. You don't HAVE to work 50 hours a week.
Exactly. I realized, and decided, early on in my career that sometimes shit happens and everyone needs to buckle down and get through it, but if there is constantly too much work for me to do in my 40 hours then that's a staffing problem, and not mine. Hire someone else or pay me for the time needed to do the job, I'm not working more than I'm getting paid for week after week.
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I remembered another from a couple weeks back.
I was working in my classroom the week before school starting, and the new Axa rep comes into my room to introduce himself (why Axa can wander the halls but no one else can I will never know). He says, "Hi. My name is so and so, and I'd like to talk to you about your 403b."
My response, " Your from Axa, right? I left Axa a few years ago for a feuciary. Unless you have a new 403b with rates under .4 percent, I'm not going to be interested. Thanks for stopping in."
He really had no idea what to do with me. I'm not sure he'd ever met a teacher who knew all of the options available.
I get that too. The rep from American Fidelity is due in this Tuesday at our school, and for some reason they get upset when I tell them their offerings pale in comparison to what Vanguard offers.
I get the look when I let it slip that my car and motorcycle are owned outright. Of course, everyone else at the school drives an SUV.
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He was like, you like working on the car? I got the look haha..
I'd flip that around with 'of course, what's not to like?' :-)
Just did an oil change and I was in a hurry so I ended up not noticing the funnel came out of the hole and poured 1.5l of oil on my garage floor. Didn't like that.
My finest work was forgetting to put the drain plug back in and pouring 3.5 quarts of motor oil straight through my engine onto my driveway.
My at the time my 23 yr old daughter who is handy and not afraid to jump right in, decided to change the oil on my truck. When she refilled it she could only get two quarts in and it was over filled. It took me a short trip to figure out she drained the transmission. That's about 8000 miles ago so it didn't do any terrible harm.
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I posted on here a couple years ago that some tradies our landlord had sent to do work on the exterior of our rental house, gave us a Salvation Army food parcel when they finished the job... :-/ They never came inside, and both my husband and I were on parental leave at the time with a newborn, so I guess we looked unemployed... They only ever saw me when I was leaving the house to go for a run, and between the sleep deprivation and the purpose of the trip out, I wasn't exactly dressed to impress...
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I posted on here a couple years ago that some tradies our landlord had sent to do work on the exterior of our rental house, gave us a Salvation Army food parcel when they finished the job... :-/ They never came inside, and both my husband and I were on parental leave at the time with a newborn, so I guess we looked unemployed... They only ever saw me when I was leaving the house to go for a run, and between the sleep deprivation and the purpose of the trip out, I wasn't exactly dressed to impress...
I remember that post!
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I get looks all the time for various reasons. I wish people would mind their own business. Anyways most recently I was having my house inspected to be certified to rent a room in my house. The inspector asked where the owner is and I said that's me. Got the look. I guess most people believe whatever they see on tv, people who do this, look like this. And sexism too obviously. Women were not allowed to have mortgages until about 30 years ago. You had to find a man to cosign.
Haha! I bought my first house, by myself, in 1988. Whenever I said I owned my own house, I got the Look, followed by the Smirk, followed by a Question about my prior marriage, as in "You must have gotten it or the DP money in a divorce settlement". Um, no. I earned/saved/bought a fixer. I didn't get married until 2012.
Next series of Looks began in 2003 when I bought a brand-new home in a retirement community. I was in my mid-forties and still single. You had to be 55 to live there, but could purchase at any age, which few people knew. I rented out the house, but kept the Casita for myself. Lots of great Looks every time I visited. I still get them, even though I've crossed the age limit threshold.
Now I get the Look occasionally when I say I'm retired. Even in the Retirement Community (where we now own three houses), which tickles me to no end.
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On the plus(ish) side, it pushed me towards home ownership and trying to achieve FI. My counter to "the look" is being visibly trans AND visibly successful. Just not the pretend kind of successful that leads to filing for bankruptcy in 3 years.
Rock on.
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Why does the painter care whether you own your home?
Because if you're a renter he can cut corners that he couldn't with the owner standing over his shoulder.
Maybe he just wanted to know who was going to pay the bill.
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DW and I get the look pretty often. She has a full-time WFH job and I work in a niche medical field where I only work one day per week, so we are both around at almost all times with our DS who is one year old. We are significantly younger than the other people in our neighborhood and are around a lot. We get comments a lot about how often we are just out in the yard playing with our kid.
I spend most days with our DS at nearby parks, the children's museum, the mountain bike trails, etc. At least once per day I get single moms commenting on the fact that I am the only dad around during the day. I get comments often about how DS is having a "day with dad" when we are picking up groceries or running errands. I guess having a dad around during the day still just doesn't compute for most people.
I get looks from our close friends about how I look and dress pretty often. I grew up looking like a 'dirtbag' on the beaches in Southern California, but now we live in an upper income suburb in the deep south. I'm covered in tattoos, shaved head, big surfer t-shirts and vans, bruises and scars from jiu-jitsu, and still listen to hardcore and punk from my high school days. People here wear khakis and pastel polo shirts and drive foreign cars and play golf and say yes sir and no ma'am and stuff like that. Some of our close friends have seen my closet and it makes zero sense to them that I literally do not own a shirt with buttons or a collar or any pair of pants that aren't jeans. It makes no sense to them how someone like me exists.
We are not FI, but have a decent handle on money. When we bought our last house we got a great deal because we were the only offer that wasn't contingent on selling the home we were already in. The bank was dumbfounded that we had no debt and that our income was as high as it was. They told us the amount that we were pre-qualified for, which was more than 60% higher than the homes we were looking at. They seemed surprised that we weren't trying to buy a bigger, better house. The one we have is still on the "too big" side for my tastes.
Lastly, most of our friends are not in the same financial shape we are. They are all decently frugal, but have more normal salaries than we do. They are public school teachers, youth pastors, bank tellers, etc. Our income is about 5x the median household income in our area, but we don't want our friends to know. I get breakfast weekly with a couple guys that I am close with and have accidentally made comments alluding to our income and savings that completely threw them off. Both of our jobs are hard to explain, so I usually say my wife sells essential oils from home (which is an inside joke that she hates) and that I do odd jobs (my job is very odd indeed). It's easier than trying to explain what we really do and doesn't give away where we stand on an income/investment side of things.
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Easiest way to get “the look” ever is simply drive a 25-year-old car, or take the bus. Stealth wealth FTW.
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So 1.5 years ago we bought a new car.
The sales manager is showing us all the features.. His cell phone rang and it was obviously one of his juniors and the one sided convo went.. "no we don't need to run their credit, they are paying cash"... Didn't hear the long reply but the sales manager turned away and had about a 5 minute conversation and I barely overheared words like "Stop...." and "No look".
I can only imaging what was actually being said .. Like.. Really! don't F with these people or they will walk..
He comes back to the shiny new SUV to go resume sales pitch mode and I ask naively "So you still want to run our credit?".. big smile.
Oh no no no, misunderstanding.. So I said "You could try but all of our credit union accounts are locked down because we don't borrow money".. Yeah he gets it.
Later at in front of the junior paperwork dude... "so.. What do you guys do?".. Oh we been retired for 8 years..:)
Yup there is "The look"...:)
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Last time I got the look was from the MiL. DW's parents have no clue whatsoever about our situation, and likely assume we struggle because I'm known for waiting for cheaper flights, preferring to eat at home, working on my own car, and so forth.
Conversation from last December:
MiL: [feeling discouraged] "We've been paying on the mortgage for 23 years and owe almost as much as we started with." (multiple re-finances for unnecessary home projects)
DW: "You should have [lilkidjesus] look over your finances"
MiL: [disregarding DW's comment]: "What interest rate do you guys have on your mortgage?"
DW: "We don't have one."
MiL: "What do you mean?"
DW: "I mean, we don't have a mortgage. Our house is paid off."
MiL: THE LOOK
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DW: "I mean, we don't have a mortgage. Our house is paid off."
MiL: THE LOOK
As an aside, I may have poisoned my children's thinking on this. My oldest just bought his first house with a mortgage, and he was a bit flummoxed that people call themselves homeowners when they have mortgages. I tried to say that's just the way people talk about it, but he'd certainly prefer that the word was defined as "owns house, no mortgage".
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DW: "I mean, we don't have a mortgage. Our house is paid off."
MiL: THE LOOK
As an aside, I may have poisoned my children's thinking on this. My oldest just bought his first house with a mortgage, and he was a bit flummoxed that people call themselves homeowners when they have mortgages. I tried to say that's just the way people talk about it, but he'd certainly prefer that the word was defined as "owns house, no mortgage".
We always said "we co-own the house with the bank." Having no mortgage is lovely.
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I used to get the look whenever we made a larger cash transaction. Downpayment on our current house. Cash purchase on my 04 pickup and DW's 08 yaris.
But I'm getting better at hiding it now. Also it's more common for people in their 50's to pay cash than people in their 30's.
Last year we had a problem where a lawyer thought that we couldn't afford an undertaking because I wanted some idea of how much it would cost. If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it!
People seem to have no idea that larger expenditures require some degree of tax planning and investment planning. It's bizarre.
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DW: "I mean, we don't have a mortgage. Our house is paid off."
MiL: THE LOOK
As an aside, I may have poisoned my children's thinking on this. My oldest just bought his first house with a mortgage, and he was a bit flummoxed that people call themselves homeowners when they have mortgages. I tried to say that's just the way people talk about it, but he'd certainly prefer that the word was defined as "owns house, no mortgage".
We always said "we co-own the house with the bank." Having no mortgage is lovely.
Some nitpickery 'cause I guess I'm feeling ornery today :) ...
I hear this all the time and, while I understand the sentiment, it's also just plain wrong. A homeowner with a mortgage owns the house and owes the debt. If the house appreciates like crazy none of it accrues to the lender. Likewise, if the house loses value the lender doesn't take a hit unless you default on the loan, and even then there's a decent chance they're made whole due to the down payment.
That said, we paid off our mortgage 10+ years ago and it's great. I understand the math that says a tax deductible fixed low interest mortgage is more financially optimal, but in FIRE it's fantastic to have very low expenses and fly under the radar of the taxman.
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We recently got two opposite looks in one conversation.
We were on a road trip to some national parks. At one park, after some camping, we booked a night at the lodge to get cleaned up and enjoy the views. We chatted with an older couple there -- early 60s?
Them: "How long are you traveling for?"
Us: "About 3 weeks, maybe longer. We're not sure yet."
<look #1, surprised and befuddled>
Them: "Oh! What are you in?"
Us: "In?"
Them: "What are you driving?" (meaning, I assume, what kind of RV)
Us: "Oh, a Prius. We camp and occasionally get a hotel room."
<look #2, surprised and pitying>
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I got it some years ago when I was much younger and paid cash for a car. I'd told the sales guy I didn't need financing, but when we sat down to close the deal, he brought it up again. I got the look when I brought out my checkbook and asked what the total was. He seemed rather uncomfortable after that.
I did finance my car when it was bought many years ago, but the guy thought I didn't understand credit scores when I told him mine was in the low 800s.
Easiest way to get “the look” ever is simply drive a 25-year-old car, or take the bus. Stealth wealth FTW.
There tend to be things that sneak through. We were out and about on a Tuesday afternoon and someone asked DH what day it was. DH stuttered, told him the wrong day, then went back to correct himself. The guy gave him The Look and even said he doesn't look like someone who should struggle with that.
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lienholder
This word!
I was crashed into while minding my own business stopped at a stoplight.
Oh, what fun, I have to talk to insurance companies!
Phone agent: And who is the lienholder?
Me: The what?
Phone agent: lienholder.
Me: Lienholder?
Phone agent: Yes, who loaned you the money to buy the vehicle.
Me: Why would I have a loan?
Phone agent: Do you have the title?
Me: Yes, it's in my file drawer.
It's like getting "The Look" over the phone. Does no one actually own their car anymore? Weird.
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My in-laws (early 60's) were asked to supply investment statements proving they could pay for their house in cash. Apparently no one does that anymore.
We just bought a house for cash in Sweden, and we're being interrogated on the origin of the money by both the bank and realtor. There are strong money laundering laws in Sweden and apparently being able to buy a house for cash is cause for suspicion. It's kind of infuriating, they make it very difficult to effect a property transaction with cash. You'd think you just transfer the money to the seller's account, but noooo.
I dunno about any looks though, because it's all done virtually. ;-)
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DW: "I mean, we don't have a mortgage. Our house is paid off."
MiL: THE LOOK
As an aside, I may have poisoned my children's thinking on this. My oldest just bought his first house with a mortgage, and he was a bit flummoxed that people call themselves homeowners when they have mortgages. I tried to say that's just the way people talk about it, but he'd certainly prefer that the word was defined as "owns house, no mortgage".
We always said "we co-own the house with the bank." Having no mortgage is lovely.
Some nitpickery 'cause I guess I'm feeling ornery today :) ...
I hear this all the time and, while I understand the sentiment, it's also just plain wrong. A homeowner with a mortgage owns the house and owes the debt. If the house appreciates like crazy none of it accrues to the lender. Likewise, if the house loses value the lender doesn't take a hit unless you default on the loan, and even then there's a decent chance they're made whole due to the down payment.
That said, we paid off our mortgage 10+ years ago and it's great. I understand the math that says a tax deductible fixed low interest mortgage is more financially optimal, but in FIRE it's fantastic to have very low expenses and fly under the radar of the taxman.
The perils of written versus oral communication. I suppose I should have written
We always said "we co-own the house with the bank." /s ;-)
Of course in reality we owned the equity and the debt that went with it, and we knew it, but it was a more fun/sarcastic way of saying we had a mortgage. We were not talking with finance nerds either.
Also as a Canadian I did not have a tax deductible mortgage. The tax rules are different here. It does affect the planning. And the paperwork is so simple when selling a mortgage-free house.
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I'm glad someone revived this thread, I had forgotten about it. So good!
lienholder
This word!
I was crashed into while minding my own business stopped at a stoplight.
Oh, what fun, I have to talk to insurance companies!
Phone agent: And who is the lienholder?
Me: The what?
Phone agent: lienholder.
Me: Lienholder?
Phone agent: Yes, who loaned you the money to buy the vehicle.
Me: Why would I have a loan?
Phone agent: Do you have the title?
Me: Yes, it's in my file drawer.
It's like getting "The Look" over the phone. Does no one actually own their car anymore? Weird.
I feel this one too @Zamboni , we had someone drive into both(!!) of our cars that were parked in our driveway one night, then run off leaving the stolen totaled car in our lawn. One, two, three, three totaled cars, Ha, ha ha. We had paid cash for the vehicles so no loans. So talking to insurance at 2am from my driveway in my jammies, yes I have the titles they are in my file cabinet. Luckily they just wanted the basics and we could do most of the paperwork later in the week.
Overall it was a pretty surreal experience. I almost got the police officer to laugh when I asked him if we could have the Honda civic as a consolation prize since the dude left it in my yard. The cop gave a look, then realized I was joking- sorta. I don't think he expected DH and I to be so jovial after the accident and that early in the morning. We were just happy no one was hurt and that the cars protected the house :D.
Loren
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Last week my wife was sitting on the front porch when a door-to-door roofing salesman came by.
Salesman: "Your roof has really bad damage from that hail storm"
Wife: "Really? Where?"
Salesman: *Hands her a pamphlet* "What insurance company do you use? I can work with them to get a new roof covered"
Wife: "We don't have an insurance company"
Salesman: "Oh, so you're renters?"
Wife: "No, we self-insure"
Salesman: *Gives the look* "Can I have my pamphlet back?" *walks away*
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I get the look when I'm with my Dave Ramsey friends and I mention I'm not paying off the mortgage because the money is too good.
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I get the look when I'm with my Dave Ramsey friends and I mention I'm not paying off the mortgage because the money is too good.
Nice one..:)
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I think the power of compound interest is unknown to most folks. A friend is going to be starting a job soon with a 401k. I was trying to educate her a little on the benefits of investing a lot, and early, and how compound interest can really add up over time. I asked her how much she thought she'd have if she invested even 10% of her salary every year for several decades. She guessed around $50K. When I told her, conservatively, it would be over a million, her reaction was "...What!?". So I guess I got "the look" but from an educational standpoint.
I convinced a young co worker to contribute up to the match in her 401k. She was part time, 22 years old. Living with her parents and spoiled. I told her don't worry it will only be $25 a week. Well we got paid and she flipped out because it was $50 (we got paid biweekly) and she couldn't afford that. I asked her what exactly she couldn't afford, since she lived at home and had no bills. She said she had credit card bills and started naming off various mall clothing stores.
This same girl made a comment about a customer who had $60k in her bank account. She said "if I had $60k, I wouldn't be driving a car like that. I'd be driving a much nicer car." I said the reason she has $60k is because she drives a "car like that".
I love this thread and glad to see it back. I think the story above is the perfect representation of this thread because (at a theoretical level) this thought process and result is the origin of "the look."
The reason why people with t-shirts, jeans and cheap cars have so much money in their bank account is because they don't buy fancy stuff. It's such a simple concept, but at the same time, an extremely difficult concept for Americans to understand.
I contributed to this thread in 2017, when my net worth was around 450K. Now 6 years later, it has tripled. Nowadays, at work (community college professor), I actually don't get "the look". I get respectful questions along the lines of, "How did you do that?" I'm a 43 year old male, so having money, isn't completely out of the question. However, faculty salaries are fairly low at my college, so it's not normal. When I bought my house for 280K with a mortgage rate of 4.125%, I got some questions of how I pulled it off. I think the disbelief was coming up with a down payment of 5%, which is kind of sad because it's only 14K + closing costs. I failed to mention that I put down 20%.
When I'm not at work, I will occasionally get "the look." When in regular clothes (typically surfer or skater style), I have the opportunity to occasionally look younger, especially when I'm wearing a hat, which hides the fact that I'm balding.
I was at the Kauai airport in April/May 2019 talking to a friend and he introduced me to one of his friends and we were having a friendly 3-person chat on where we were going. I was flying to California for two job interviews (age 39). My friend (age 35) was getting paid to fly to Arizona for a musical performance. His friend (age 55) was semi-retired and flying back to South Dakota because his 5-6 month winter in Hawaii was over. He locked up the house and will be back in October. My friend then shared to his friend that I recently bought a house in June 2018 and typically go to the mainland for 3 months during the summer (similar to him). He was surprised and then said, "You got a small plantation house?", which is typically 900 to 1200 sq. ft. and no garage. I replied with "No, it's a custom home that's about 2500 sq. ft. with a large covered deck and a 2.5 car garage." He then gave me "the look" and was confused. I then responded with, "The upstairs is 1850 sq. ft. and we rent out the basement separately, which is about 650 sq. ft. to help off-set the cost of the mortgage." He was more comfortable with that follow up response and made sense to him and it was all good.
I have one more story, which is related to the "yard work in front yard" story on the first page of comments. My wife and I were staying in the lower level 650 sq. ft. apartment last summer for 8 weeks on Kauai. During the first or second week of occupancy, I'm doing yard work in the front yard, covered in Kauai red dirt. A friend of the upstairs tenants parked their truck in our parking lot. The upstairs tenants know that guests should be parking in the drive-way and not in the parking lot for the lower level tenants. The gravel parking lot is on a slope and loose gravel can get spit up by tires and hit other cars in that lot. As a result, upstairs guests are not allowed in the lower level gravel parking area.
I politely asked the upstairs tenants to have their friend park in the driveway or on the side of the road. The guest politely agrees and moves his truck and re-enters the house. About 15 minutes later, he leaves the property and drives away and we politely waive to one another. About 30 minutes later, he comes back and parks in the same spot. Before he enters the house, I asked him why he parked in the same spot again. He responded with, "It's ok, I will only be here for a few minutes" I then responded with, "It's not ok, even for a few minutes. You are not allowed to park in that area, ever. You need to move your vehicle." I wasn't disrespectful, but I was very firm. He was really confused and then moved his vehicle. He was in the house for about 30 minutes and then as he was leaving decided to chat me up.
His first question was how much I liked "landscaping." He implied "for a living", but didn't say that. I replied with, "I like it very much. I love being outside." His tone then became very disrespectful and sarcastic to the point that the upstairs tenants decided to come outside to see what was going on. My upstairs tenants were embarrassed and horrified by how their friend was talking to me that they politely said that it was time for him to make his next appointment and walked him to his vehicle. He was very confused but agreed with his friend. I'm not sure if the upstairs tenants explained to him that I was the owner and not a landscaper. However, when the upstairs tenants walked back they gave me an empathetic look and said, "sorry about that."
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I contributed to this thread in 2017, when my net worth was around 450K. Now 6 years later, it has tripled.
...
When I first read this I thought, Wow, lucky! Wish I had money...
My second thought was, no, I should be happy for Clark and congratulate him.
Then I thought, I wonder how our net worth has changed in that time? ... We are up 430% since this thread began.
I don't know whether to be happy because of the crazy gain, gloat because I beat Clark, or give myself "the look" because it sure doesn't feel like we have money.
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https://youtu.be/LlVI7ZNiFlI?t=38
she's got the look!
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Last time I got the look was from the MiL. DW's parents have no clue whatsoever about our situation, and likely assume we struggle because I'm known for waiting for cheaper flights, preferring to eat at home, working on my own car, and so forth.
Conversation from last December:
MiL: [feeling discouraged] "We've been paying on the mortgage for 23 years and owe almost as much as we started with." (multiple re-finances for unnecessary home projects)
DW: "You should have [lilkidjesus] look over your finances"
MiL: [disregarding DW's comment]: "What interest rate do you guys have on your mortgage?"
DW: "We don't have one."
MiL: "What do you mean?"
DW: "I mean, we don't have a mortgage. Our house is paid off."
MiL: THE LOOK
We live in a HCOLA and we paid cash for our home, so we never "paid it off" exactly. We never, ever tell people this, as we don't want to be a target. Whose business is it anyway?
Sidebar: apparently I made the last comment in 2017, so I figured I should add my .02 to the revival.
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I'm glad this old thread came back to life. I reread the whole thing from start to finish!
I don't have any recent stories about getting The Look. As I've grown older, I've become much less open with friends and family about personal finances. It just makes life simpler when no one asks me for a loan cash gifts to support their lifestyles, which are far more wasteful than mine.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--8mvZzZIcU
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Got the look when New York passed free tuition. A friend was standing in my entryway and mentioned it, and we just said, "oh, we make too much."
He was very confused because we only had 1 bathroom, and the house kinda sucked in some ways.
People believe me now because I have a much nicer house, but then they are confused about why I drive a 13-yo van and don't have a 2nd car (though my wife did test drive a 2020 Subaru Forrester, and I'm confident she'll get it).
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Does "The Look" for being visibly trans count?
This is a look I am all too familiar with. I run a trans support org here and my youngest is trans.
This is an awful look. I'm so sorry you guys have to go through that.
I used to work in the local welfare office some years ago and we had a few trans clients. I was absolutely shocked to see what they went through, both from other people in the waiting room and from my own coworkers. I tried to talk about it to my coworkers and to our boss, but I could just not get my point across why it is hateful to address someone with the wrong pronouns on purpose or to act like being trans is something like a dangerous sexual perversion. I had heard from a trans friend that these things happened, and I believed him, but until you get a glimpse of how some people actually behave, you don't truly believe how bad it can get. I did apologise for the behaviour of my coworker, but there's no apology possible for such humiliation. The damage has been done and can't be undone.
On the plus(ish) side, it pushed me towards home ownership and trying to achieve FI. My counter to "the look" is being visibly trans AND visibly successful. Just not the pretend kind of successful that leads to filing for bankruptcy in 3 years.
Good for you. And congrats on all of your success.
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Can’t get the look if you don’t make eye contact
Was going to post the following song but then I realized I remembered the lyrics wrong. But then I decided to post it anyways because it’s kinda mustachian that we can be happy underground
https://youtu.be/rWB8vwr175I&t=48
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I get The Look every time my coworkers start discussing 401k contributions, and I'm asked how much I put into my 401k.
When I said that I planned to max it out, one coworker said "You mean like, 10%?" They thought that 10% was the maximum you were allowed to contribute to a 401k. When I explained that no, you can in fact contribute 100% of your paycheck if you want, up to the maximum annual contribution, they looked at me like I had 3 heads.
I also was once discussing taxes with a coworker who is of the opinion that taxation is theft and paying taxes is bullshit. I pointed out that you can reduce the amount you pay in taxes by contributing more money to your pre-tax 401k, then later using the Roth Conversion Ladder to potentially avoid taxes on it altogether. I may as well have been speaking Greek.
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I also was once discussing taxes with a coworker who is of the opinion that taxation is theft and paying taxes is bullshit. I pointed out that you can reduce the amount you pay in taxes by contributing more money to your pre-tax 401k, then later using the Roth Conversion Ladder to potentially avoid taxes on it altogether. I may as well have been speaking Greek.
Every conversation I've had about money and savings with a "taxation is theft" zealot may as well have been me speaking Greek (except for with one person I briefly lived with, who was from Greece). When your view of money is so extremely self-centered and an extreme outlier it's not surprising that you can't get passed the idea of paying taxes to discuss tax optimization strategies. I think it's baked into the cake, not unlike trying to have a discussion about what 'sensible' firearm policy might be to a "second amendment absolutist".
I've had a few conversations about tax-optimization strategies with 'regular' people, and the sense I most often get is that setting up a conversion ladder is so far beyond their comfort zone and understanding it's like suggesting to someone who's never operated a miter saw that they can build their own shed with windows and full electrical. They might understand a few words like "stud" and "siding" but putting it together seems daunting with a perceived risk of failure.
It doesn't help that there's a multi-billion dollar industry designed to convince people that taxes are hopelessly complex and self-investment is a path to ruin, so they must ceed control of their finances to "professionals" armed with technical-sounding terms.
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I used to drive an old beat to shit metro. Was at sam's club one day, helping a random lady load up her 50 lb bag of dog food. After I was done helping:
Her: "I'm a real estate agent with xx company, I bet I can get you a lower mortgage payment than what you pay in rent."
Me: "Thanks but, I don't pay rent"
Her: *confused look* "Oh, I see. I guess you still live with your parents?"
Me: "No"
Her: *even more confused* "Do you own a home?"
Me: "Yes"
Her: "I can probably get you a lower mortgage. I have some cheap houses for sale in xx (a low income) city"
Me: "Actually I don't have a mortgage"
Her: *visibly confused, does double take, looks at me, looks at my car, looks back at me again* "You own your own home outright?"
Me: "Yes"
Her: *confused look* "What do you do for a living?"
Me: "I'm a lead software engineer at xx tech company. Our software is deployed to yy locations around the world and serves zz purpose. I'm also a landlord and own xx properties."
Her: *holy shit look* *long pause* "I also have some nice houses in xx (most wealthy city around) if you're interested?"
Me: "No thanks. I just stopped by to help you load up your dog food. Have a good day!"
Her: "You too!" *Still with confused look*
I still think back on this conversation and it cracks me up to this day, lol. 😂
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--8mvZzZIcU
I had to give Roxette the look at the end of the video when she sat on the crapper and gave me 'the look'
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I'm not certain that I got "the look" because I avoided making eye contact, but a few years ago I helped my father make a cash deposit at his bank. The amount was unusually large. We had three fully loaded bankers boxes, which required a hand truck to roll through the front door of the bank. I'm sure none of the customers had any idea that we were hauling 105 lbs of $100's to the safe deposit vault, but I still felt the look from the bank staff.
Later I returned to the bank, a number of times, for counting sessions with a bank manager to unwrap, machine count, rewrap, and initial each bundle, to actually deposit the funds into the bank. Those counters seem pretty fast as they zip through a bundle, but it still took hours & hours to process them all. It was a surreal experience.
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I'm not certain that I got "the look" because I avoided making eye contact, but a few years ago I helped my father make a cash deposit at his bank. The amount was unusually large. We had three fully loaded bankers boxes, which required a hand truck to roll through the front door of the bank. I'm sure none of the customers had any idea that we were hauling 105 lbs of $100's to the safe deposit vault, but I still felt the look from the bank staff.
Later I returned to the bank, a number of times, for counting sessions with a bank manager to unwrap, machine count, rewrap, and initial each bundle, to actually deposit the funds into the bank. Those counters seem pretty fast as they zip through a bundle, but it still took hours & hours to process them all. It was a surreal experience.
Hah, that's awesome! How much were you moving? That must have been a ton.
I once wanted to transfer 20k from my bank to another bank. My bank wanted to charge me a fee for doing this . . . but I didn't want to pay the fee for doing this. So I asked if they would waive it. They said no. So I said I wanted the 20k in cash. They told me they would have to order the money in and it would take at least a week. So I waited a week and went back with my backpack. They had hired extra security that day at the bank. :P Grabbed the bills (which weighed a disappointingly small amount), tossed 'em into my backpack, biked down to the other bank and deposited them.
I have to figure they lost money having to hire the extra security and order the cash into the bank. But whatever makes 'em happy. :P
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I love the people moving large amounts of cash as cash, so funny. I had a co-worker buy a house in cash, and he actually brought a briefcase full of cash to the meeting. The sellers were not thrilled. My co-worker was "I even bought a used briefcase that they could keep." So generous.
I get "the look" when I tell people that I retired with not only a mortgage but also with student loans. I talk finances with all kinds of people, including some well off people that have retired or downshifted early (usually 50s or 60s). Pretty much everyone does this in line with paying off the house. So when we talk money, debts, etc, they ask how I got the house paid off so young, and I tell them I didn't and that I still have student loans. Those payments just got baked into the retirement scheme- and leverage is AWESOME! Cheapest money anyone is ever going to give me. Then, "the look."
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I'm not certain that I got "the look" because I avoided making eye contact, but a few years ago I helped my father make a cash deposit at his bank. The amount was unusually large. We had three fully loaded bankers boxes, which required a hand truck to roll through the front door of the bank. I'm sure none of the customers had any idea that we were hauling 105 lbs of $100's to the safe deposit vault, but I still felt the look from the bank staff.
Later I returned to the bank, a number of times, for counting sessions with a bank manager to unwrap, machine count, rewrap, and initial each bundle, to actually deposit the funds into the bank. Those counters seem pretty fast as they zip through a bundle, but it still took hours & hours to process them all. It was a surreal experience.
Hah, that's awesome! How much were you moving? That must have been a ton.
I once wanted to transfer 20k from my bank to another bank. My bank wanted to charge me a fee for doing this . . . but I didn't want to pay the fee for doing this. So I asked if they would waive it. They said no. So I said I wanted the 20k in cash. They told me they would have to order the money in and it would take at least a week. So I waited a week and went back with my backpack. They had hired extra security that day at the bank. :P Grabbed the bills (which weighed a disappointingly small amount), tossed 'em into my backpack, biked down to the other bank and deposited them.
I have to figure they lost money having to hire the extra security and order the cash into the bank. But whatever makes 'em happy. :P
This reminded me of when I worked for in retail for a large company in upscale mall. Twice a week we'd move the cash to the vault room of the bank on the opposite side of the mall. It was always done in the early morning before any of the stores were open, and always involved two people and an unmarked backpack. During the holidays we could have anywhere between 20k and 50k in cash - all non-sequential circulated bills.
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I'm not certain that I got "the look" because I avoided making eye contact, but a few years ago I helped my father make a cash deposit at his bank. The amount was unusually large. We had three fully loaded bankers boxes, which required a hand truck to roll through the front door of the bank. I'm sure none of the customers had any idea that we were hauling 105 lbs of $100's to the safe deposit vault, but I still felt the look from the bank staff.
Later I returned to the bank, a number of times, for counting sessions with a bank manager to unwrap, machine count, rewrap, and initial each bundle, to actually deposit the funds into the bank. Those counters seem pretty fast as they zip through a bundle, but it still took hours & hours to process them all. It was a surreal experience.
Hah, that's awesome! How much were you moving? That must have been a ton.
A quick Google search tells me a piece of US currency weighs about a gram, so 105 pounds of $100 bills must have been a few million dollars.
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I'm not certain that I got "the look" because I avoided making eye contact, but a few years ago I helped my father make a cash deposit at his bank. The amount was unusually large. We had three fully loaded bankers boxes, which required a hand truck to roll through the front door of the bank. I'm sure none of the customers had any idea that we were hauling 105 lbs of $100's to the safe deposit vault, but I still felt the look from the bank staff.
Later I returned to the bank, a number of times, for counting sessions with a bank manager to unwrap, machine count, rewrap, and initial each bundle, to actually deposit the funds into the bank. Those counters seem pretty fast as they zip through a bundle, but it still took hours & hours to process them all. It was a surreal experience.
Hah, that's awesome! How much were you moving? That must have been a ton.
A quick Google search tells me a piece of US currency weighs about a gram, so 105 pounds of $100 bills must have been a few million dollars.
@GreenEggs now you gotta tell us why your father had that much in cash lying around!
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I'm not certain that I got "the look" because I avoided making eye contact, but a few years ago I helped my father make a cash deposit at his bank. The amount was unusually large. We had three fully loaded bankers boxes, which required a hand truck to roll through the front door of the bank. I'm sure none of the customers had any idea that we were hauling 105 lbs of $100's to the safe deposit vault, but I still felt the look from the bank staff.
Later I returned to the bank, a number of times, for counting sessions with a bank manager to unwrap, machine count, rewrap, and initial each bundle, to actually deposit the funds into the bank. Those counters seem pretty fast as they zip through a bundle, but it still took hours & hours to process them all. It was a surreal experience.
My first thought when reading this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSYcDdjIXsY
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Carrying large amounts of cash like that always struck me as a very risky thing to do in the US. Besides the obvious security and logistics issues present anywhere, there's also civil asset forfeiture to worry about. If the popo stops you for any reason (or no reason), they can confiscate the money and it can be very difficult (or expensive) to get back.
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Haven't had the look yet. Maybe something to aspire to. Have enjoyed reading everyone's experiences, definite lesson to not judge wealth based on appearances.
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I'm not certain that I got "the look" because I avoided making eye contact, but a few years ago I helped my father make a cash deposit at his bank. The amount was unusually large. We had three fully loaded bankers boxes, which required a hand truck to roll through the front door of the bank. I'm sure none of the customers had any idea that we were hauling 105 lbs of $100's to the safe deposit vault, but I still felt the look from the bank staff.
Later I returned to the bank, a number of times, for counting sessions with a bank manager to unwrap, machine count, rewrap, and initial each bundle, to actually deposit the funds into the bank. Those counters seem pretty fast as they zip through a bundle, but it still took hours & hours to process them all. It was a surreal experience.
Hah, that's awesome! How much were you moving? That must have been a ton.
A quick Google search tells me a piece of US currency weighs about a gram, so 105 pounds of $100 bills must have been a few million dollars.
@GreenEggs now you gotta tell us why your father had that much in cash lying around!
The total was $5.2M and each box weighed 35 lbs. Dad didn't know about index funds and CDs were yielding less than 1%. He also didn't realize the estate tax threshold had been raised and didn't want Uncle Sam ending up with a big chunk of his hard-earned money. Upon realizing he had so much cash hoarded in his safe I explained that we (his heirs) wouldn't be able to purchase anything with deeds or titles or invest in equities with a big pile of cash. I explained that it was legal for him to possess it now, but it would become basically worthless to us after he passed. He realized the error in his thinking and that's when we began preparing to get it into the bank.
I also called Vanguard at about the same time. I told them that I was my father's PoA and was planning to invest the funds with them but needed to deposit it into a bank first. The Vanguard reps seemed to give me "the look" as I explained it to them. (Establishing a trust account as my father's PoA was a very long process. It took weeks of FedExing notarized documents back and forth.)
The trip to the bank did feel risky. It was mid-day and there was only one intersection from his neighborhood to the bank. The box lids were all securely taped shut. We just calmly drove there, unloaded 3 boxes, and wheeled them through the front door.
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Damn, that's a good story.
I explained that it was legal for him to possess it now, but it would become basically worthless to us after he passed.
But I don't understand, why would the cash be worthless to you when you settled your father's estate? It's pretty obvious that it had to go into the financial system, but as executor (or as a beneficiary), couldn't you have gone through the same process?
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I decided to share a few more:
2013 (the first year I maxed out the HSA, 401(k), and IRA in the same year):
Coworker (pointing at the countdown retirement clock ticking down on my desk): You think you're going to retire before you're 45?
Me: I know I'm going to retire before I'm 45
Coworker: What makes you so sure?
Me: Math
Coworker (confused): Huh?
Me: I don't spend a cent from this job. I live entirely on the salary I make from my job on the weekends
Coworker: *glaring at me, unbelieving
Me (retrieving a pay stub from my desk drawer): We have the same salary, so you know what our take home pay is. There's mine after my retirement contributions. ($217 net)
Coworker: the look
2019:
Me: Looks like [executive] sold stock worth $9m. She'll likely be enjoying retirement soon
Coworker: After taxes, that's only like $6m
Me: Which is exponentially more than one needs to retire
Coworker: $6m is not a lot of money anymore
Me: I know for certain I could stop working with under $1m
Coworker: Not a chance
Me: You just need an amount that can generate your projected spending. For instance, if I only spend $30k per year, math would suggest we could retire with $750k and never run out of money
Coworker: Yeah, but $30k is impossible to live on
Me: We had three years in the last five that we lived on less than $20k
Coworker: That's not possible
Me: *showing a series of spreadsheets that break down my spending since 2011
Coworker: the look (throughout the entire explanation)
Both of these coworkers subsequently asked me to help them review their current situations and became occasional MMM readers.
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Wow good for you for successfully converting people over!
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Damn, that's a good story.
I explained that it was legal for him to possess it now, but it would become basically worthless to us after he passed.
But I don't understand, why would the cash be worthless to you when you settled your father's estate? It's pretty obvious that it had to go into the financial system, but as executor (or as a beneficiary), couldn't you have gone through the same process?
Probably the simple explanation worked better. I had to tell my mom that you HAVE to take Medicaid if you qualify for it. (Truncated explanation of how the ACA works because she was giving me a lot of shit because my kids are on Medicaid which she associates with lazy people who "dont want to work" who she is supporting with her "tax dollars". I had to tell her that you can't put the kids on aca if they qualify for Medicaid because its only for people with no other insurance, and besides my spouse has a job but it does not offer benefits. Sheesh. I did not get into the weeds too much, just basically told her "Mr. Obama says it's ok". BTW she had no problem with me and my spouse being on aca with subsidies but the kids qualifying for Medicaid made us lazy bums.
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I work for a small company with somewhere between 90-100 employees. DW and I recently maxed out our 401ks for the first time (yay!), and I had just updated my direct deposit to reflect the new monthly amount I wanted to go towards it. I got a personal call from the head of HR before the end of the hour asking me to correct my "mistake" because if I didn't my next paycheck would have "a significantly higher amount" taken from it. I assured him it was not a mistake and I was upping my contributions to take the maximum deduction. After a little back and forth for him to make sure I knew that I really meant it, he let it slip that I was the ONLY person in the company to do so. Our CEO, CFO, and a few VP level salaries are publicly disclosed and in the range of $200-450k and NONE of them are maxing theirs out.
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I've had a few the past few weeks:
1) Mother in law is getting divorced but I think it will be for the best. She is moving to our state and I was explaining how car registration worked vs. the state she was moving from. When she said she didn't have the title, I told her that she would need to drive back to the old state and get it. She gave me a weird look and explained that when you have a car loan the lender keeps the title. To which it was inferred that we have never had a car loan.. look!
2) I work for a large corporation and emailed someone from benefits about setting up a mega back door roth. They actually gave me a very detailed reply about how it has been asked before but it won't pass ACP testing because only highly compensated employees would enroll (fair). Then he threw in that the extra that I would be able to add after tax wouldn't even be that much because maxing out + catch up + 8% match + 6% over SS max would be close to $66k. Which quick math shows the only people who have asked for this have made probably double what I make and 20 years older.
3) Our car has had a small evap leak code check engine light off and on for a year. Mazda 5, 2012, 170k miles, OK shape. I personally don't care but my wife doesn't want to drive around in a car with an expired inspection sticker since we would fail due to the light. We need to get it smoke tested. First place didn't smoke test it and told us to buy a new gas cap from the manufacturer, no charge. Got the new gas cap, light still on. Took it to my neighbor backyard mechanic, he took it to a shop, smoke tested it, didn't find anything wrong but suspected it was a purge solenoid, wouldn't charge us for the test because he didn't fix anything. Recommended we take it to a place with a "fancy diagnostic scanner". So we brought it to Midas who quoted us $109 but said "thats not something I would fix". Spent an hour scanning, sure enough purge solenoid, asked how much, no charge again! So we are going back to our neighbor mechanic to get the solenoid removed. Probably $100 all in but should have been charged $300+ in diagnostics. This is VT so everyone is pretty nice but I bet our shitty car and thinking we are struggling had something to do with it too.
But my favorite from way back
We had baby #1 in a normal hospital and my wife was having trouble breastfeeding. We were talking with the lactation nurse about how it was always our plan to breast feed and we didn't have bottles at home, etc. We both probably looked like a mess and got really excited when she said we could take all the diapers and supplies from the room with us because we pretty much paid for them anyways. The Hospital also gave both of us dinner the last night which we were excited when we could ask for something different than what was standard. Well, I was walking in the hall to get something from the car and she cornered me and gave me pamphlets for WIC and other support organizations. I had to nicely explain to her we were more than fine and really just wanted to make it work for the baby's health, not $$$.
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I work for a small company with somewhere between 90-100 employees. DW and I recently maxed out our 401ks for the first time (yay!), and I had just updated my direct deposit to reflect the new monthly amount I wanted to go towards it. I got a personal call from the head of HR before the end of the hour asking me to correct my "mistake" because if I didn't my next paycheck would have "a significantly higher amount" taken from it. I assured him it was not a mistake and I was upping my contributions to take the maximum deduction. After a little back and forth for him to make sure I knew that I really meant it, he let it slip that I was the ONLY person in the company to do so. Our CEO, CFO, and a few VP level salaries are publicly disclosed and in the range of $200-450k and NONE of them are maxing theirs out.
Your plan may be "top heavy" or failing other non-discrimination tests set out by the IRS. If so, then your Highly Compensated Employees would just have to take a chunk of their contributions back out at year end.
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I contributed to this thread in 2017, when my net worth was around 450K. Now 6 years later, it has tripled.
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When I first read this I thought, Wow, lucky! Wish I had money...
My second thought was, no, I should be happy for Clark and congratulate him.
Then I thought, I wonder how our net worth has changed in that time? ... We are up 430% since this thread began.
I don't know whether to be happy because of the crazy gain, gloat because I beat Clark, or give myself "the look" because it sure doesn't feel like we have money.
Congrats on your success. I think you should do all three above. Giving "the look" to yourself was a very funny suggestion that I enjoyed reading.
You bring up a good point about "feeling like we have money" I'm guessing the things that makes people "feel rich" are different for everyone. I'm more of a lifestyle person. I think I am more into "the experience" than hitting the number to make it happen.
We are leaving for Kauai tomorrow and staying at our long-term rental for one month while we are in between tenants. This experience makes me feel rich, even though the actual cost is relatively low.
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...
I contributed to this thread in 2017, when my net worth was around 450K. Now 6 years later, it has tripled.
...
When I first read this I thought, Wow, lucky! Wish I had money...
My second thought was, no, I should be happy for Clark and congratulate him.
Then I thought, I wonder how our net worth has changed in that time? ... We are up 430% since this thread began.
I don't know whether to be happy because of the crazy gain, gloat because I beat Clark, or give myself "the look" because it sure doesn't feel like we have money.
Congrats on your success. I think you should do all three above. Giving "the look" to yourself was a very funny suggestion that I enjoyed reading.
You bring up a good point about "feeling like we have money" I'm guessing the things that makes people "feel rich" are different for everyone. I'm more of a lifestyle person. I think I am more into "the experience" than hitting the number to make it happen.
We are leaving for Kauai tomorrow and staying at our long-term rental for one month while we are in between tenants. This experience makes me feel rich, even though the actual cost is relatively low.
Cool, have fun!
Enjoy Kauai the feeling of being rich.
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On a group bike ride yesterday, I mentioned looking at joining a local country club for the purpose of learning to sail. Found out it was like 20k to join and noped right out. One other guy mentioned that he needs to join a military club soon so that he wont have to pay the 60k fees when he is at higher rank, ok-fine, then he mentions its 600$/month. "damn I dont think I spend that much on anything monthly" -> the look. No one asked about my housing situation, maybe they guessed I paid cash recently not sure, but I was on a new single speed bike so they know I am not 100% poor & broke. More fun part is that on the single speed with Chuck Taylors I was out riding most all of them who were on road bikes and clipless.
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I'm glad this old thread came back to life. I reread the whole thing from start to finish!
Me too! I'm curious if there are less bank stories now that so much is digital. I'm pretty sure I haven't deposited a check at the bank in person in over 8 years thanks to mobile deposit. And we never have cash anymore either.
Lately I've experienced multiple reactions to our cars (though in the opposite way of many prior posts in this thread). We always dress casual, don't put a lot of effort (and virtually no money) into yard care, most of our furniture is well over a decade old, and we live in a relatively humble house. But then you open the garage and the cars there cost about half of what we paid for the house. Usually the comments are positive, but it's pretty funny watching the double-take.
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One other guy mentioned that he needs to join a military club soon so that he wont have to pay the 60k fees when he is at higher rank, ok-fine, then he mentions its 600$/month.
My first thought was, who TF spends 60k on a military club?
Then I looked up the Army Navy club . . . *shudders*.
The ambition must drip off the walls.
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I'm glad this old thread came back to life. I reread the whole thing from start to finish!
Me too! I'm curious if there are less bank stories now that so much is digital. I'm pretty sure I haven't deposited a check at the bank in person in over 8 years thanks to mobile deposit. And we never have cash anymore either.
Lately I've experienced multiple reactions to our cars (though in the opposite way of many prior posts in this thread). We always dress casual, don't put a lot of effort (and virtually no money) into yard care, most of our furniture is well over a decade old, and we live in a relatively humble house. But then you open the garage and the cars there cost about half of what we paid for the house. Usually the comments are positive, but it's pretty funny watching the double-take.
As you know from having actually seen our old reliable clunker of a car in person (we call our car El Pollo Negro), people give us the opposite kind of Look as they would you and Aura :D
I remember getting The Look recently. I was with @MustachioedPistachio (MP) at the local bike shop the other day, to test ride an Aventon e-bike that he'd been eyeing for a while.
We were dealing directly with the bike shop owner. We asked for a cash discount but didn't get it. We agreed to pay the retail price anyway because MP really wanted the bike. We drove off in El Pollo Negro, came back to the bike shop about 30 minutes later, and handed the full cash amount directly to the owner.
To his credit, he quickly masked The Look with a good poker face. After a minute or two clicking around his computer, he gave us a cash discount and delivered the bike to our house in his own truck later that afternoon (because it wouldn't fit in our sedan and we don't have a bike rack). Sweet, sweet satisfaction.
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I'm glad this old thread came back to life. I reread the whole thing from start to finish!
Me too! I'm curious if there are less bank stories now that so much is digital. I'm pretty sure I haven't deposited a check at the bank in person in over 8 years thanks to mobile deposit. And we never have cash anymore either.
I have a four year old. Recently we had friends from overseas visit and when they left they gave us a small amount of cash they didn’t want to bother exchanging back into euros and we paid for the drinks. Daughter was fascinated by the “drawings” and we realized the kid had literally never seen paper money before. Covid + our largely cashless lifestyle.
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We were dealing directly with the bike shop owner. We asked for a cash discount but didn't get it. We agreed to pay the retail price anyway because MP really wanted the bike. We drove off in El Pollo Negro, came back to the bike shop about 30 minutes later, and handed the full cash amount directly to the owner.
Why'd you still pay in cash if there was no discount? Just trying to be "nice" to the owner? I've given up trying to use cash -- some places where I know I'm dealing with a very small business owner I would ask if they prefer cash and they're like "we don't even take cash, we just have this square reader" so I guess the credit fee is no biggie compared to managing cash
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We were dealing directly with the bike shop owner. We asked for a cash discount but didn't get it. We agreed to pay the retail price anyway because MP really wanted the bike. We drove off in El Pollo Negro, came back to the bike shop about 30 minutes later, and handed the full cash amount directly to the owner.
Why'd you still pay in cash if there was no discount? Just trying to be "nice" to the owner? I've given up trying to use cash -- some places where I know I'm dealing with a very small business owner I would ask if they prefer cash and they're like "we don't even take cash, we just have this square reader" so I guess the credit fee is no biggie compared to managing cash
We wanted to support a small local business. Also, I personally had a hunch that he might still give us a discount once he saw the cash. I was right.
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We were dealing directly with the bike shop owner. We asked for a cash discount but didn't get it. We agreed to pay the retail price anyway because MP really wanted the bike. We drove off in El Pollo Negro, came back to the bike shop about 30 minutes later, and handed the full cash amount directly to the owner.
Why'd you still pay in cash if there was no discount? Just trying to be "nice" to the owner? I've given up trying to use cash -- some places where I know I'm dealing with a very small business owner I would ask if they prefer cash and they're like "we don't even take cash, we just have this square reader" so I guess the credit fee is no biggie compared to managing cash
That’s largely where we’ve landed. As much as we hate paying the 2-3% ‘transaction fee’ for cards, the time savings made it a bargain compared to cash customers. I remember from my LP training that ~50% of theft comes from employees. Either we had to dutifully enter cash transactions into our system, put the money in teh till, count it at the end of each day and deposit it in the bank or simply risk not knowing whether our inventory was correct and if someone was sticking their hand int he cookie jar. And of course you definitely don’t want to be that business that has large sums of unmarked bills just sitting around.
I suspect many who prefer cash are doing so at least in part because they see it as ‘tax free’ and realize the real savings are in not paying taxes rather than saving 2.6% in square fees. Whatever your opinions are on the current tax code it’s against the law and frankly the liability for us to have unreported income was a risk we weren’t willing to take on.
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Quoting myself from another thread
I took up a very part-time job recently doing back office work for a little house cleaning company. So I'm closing out work orders, invoicing, processing payments, accounts receivable, and the like. It has been a very interesting look for me into the sausage making of a small business, and I have more sympathy for what it takes.
- Checks - Old-school pain in the butt. Why do we still have them? You have to line up who wrote the check with who the client is. When a child pays for a parent, or spouses have different last names it can be a right pain to keep track. One person wrote a check out to a completely different company name, but we still deposited it, no problem. How's that for bank security?
- Cash - Easier to handle, but keeping track of who gave how much to when and for what can get tricky. Thankfully we only get a very few customers paying in cash so it is ok.
- Credit card - by far the easiest, especially if the customer is on autopay, but there are extra fees charged that the business has to eat.
- Invoices - This is a pain. For each customer I have to look up their payment history to figure out if they normally pay by cash or check. If so, they don't get sent an invoice. Except for the ones who pay by check but also want an invoice. And the commercial customers don't get the standard invoices from the billing system but a special, manual invoice for their system. Some people only want an invoice every 2-3 services. Some people are so old they don't have email and need to be snail-mailed a paper invoice. Occasionally someone doesn't check their email and needs an invoice CCd to a spouse or an accountant. So for each name I have to check if they are on my list taped to the wall of the 319 exceptions to the usual business practice.
Sometimes I do stuff like forget to sent an invoice out to a customer until later. It seems like it should be easy, but once you get a half dozen variations on how customers want to pay, things slip through the cracks sometimes.
I can't speak for your accountant at all, but just thought I'd add a perspective from the other side.
[/quote]
In short, I was surprised what a pain cash is compared to how I had always thought of it. For anyone who needs to keep track of what was sold and to whom, cash sucks.
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Master Gremlin has been a saver since he was young. He's got an entrepreneurial streak as well as being very careful with money. When he was 12 he asked us if we could invest his savings in the stock market (other than a little bit of 'play money'). This continued with pretty much all the income he got from a couple of part time jobs through high school.
Earlier this year, at age 17, he moved away to go to University. He knew that he would need a car, so he he sold down his shares and went to the dealership to negotiate buying a new car. I went with him, as in my country, buying a car involves signing a contract and a minor (Under 18) can't legally enter a contract, so as his guardian I had to sign instead.
Conversation as follows:
Dealer: "So it must be nice to have Dad buy you a new car."
Master Gremlin: "Dad isn't buying me anything. I'm buying it with my money. Dad's just here because I can't legally enter a contract til I'm 18. It's my car, I'm paying for it, I want it in my name."
Dealer - suddenly disinterested: "Oh, sorry. We won't be able to sell it to you. We can't do finance for anyone under 18."
Master G: "I don't need finance. I'm paying cash. Now am I buying a new car from you, or do I need to go to another dealer up the road?"
*The Look*
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I was 20 and working for an oil and gas junior. They were doing a flow-through (cash raise) for shares and I put in for $12,500 worth. My immediate supervisor was shocked, which surprised me actually.
"Jeez, you have more money that me! How do you have so much money?" And I was like, I live at home...
And i didn't think it was that much. All the other staff were putting in 20-30K.
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It's crazy to me what gets "looks" while reading through this thread. It's just a step above, I pay my credit card off in full every month - the look. Or I'm setting money aside now for a major purchase I'm going to make in a few years - the look. Or I have a good credit score because I pay my bills on time - the look. Aside from a small percentage of the population who truly have been a victim of really bad luck that couldn't be avoided, it kind of disgusts me how irresponsible many "adults" are. It's right up there with, I try to eat some vegetables everyday and exercise a couple times a week - the look.
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Ooooh…. I got a new “the look” this week! Actually two different “looks” in rapid succession.
We are several months into the design and permitting phase of a home renovation that involves some new foundation piers and modifications to the roof. At 900 sqft our home is among the smallest in the area (hence the renovation) and fairly average in curb appearance
This week I met with the structural engineer. He parked his new massive $60k pickup behind my 2012 hatchback and started poking around. Move on his pickup below…
Right away he started giving me “the look #1” - aka the “this is way out of your financial capabilities. He was polite enough, starting with “this is a pretty big job” and then “digging proper footings is never cheap”. To which I kinda laughed and said “yeah, I know”. He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
He chuckled and said “oh no, it won’t be that much - that’s a 2023 Chevy 2500 with a 6 liter V8. It sells for $60k new. I only have it because they offered me a great lease when i traded in my 2018.” To which I responded “great, if it’s a lot less than that we’re good”. That put him off balance. As a last resort he asked “have you spoken to your bank about a construction loan, because most are charging over 7% if they’ll fund the project at all. Damn fed raising rates…” My response: “no, we’ve got the cash. Actually we want to start the project soon because we’re tired of it just sitting in our checking account earning 1.9% interest”
Which prompted “look #2” - aka “how can you possibly have that much money?”
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He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
Great response! It's amazing how people can't see the correlation between having cash and not owning expensive things.
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Although the bulk of our investments is in Fidelity, I do keep enough in Chase that I have a "private client" account - not that it means much in practice. Once a year I get a meeting with a Chase financial advisor who, I guess, is tasked with getting me to pull more money into Chase. He asked me about our net worth. When I told him (roughly) what it was, I got "the look" and he said that he had never heard such a high number before and asked if I had, perhaps, sold a business. I said - "No it's just from W2 income and 30 years of steady investment". He just shook his head in disbelief.
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He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
Great response! It's amazing how people can't see the correlation between having cash and not owning expensive things.
Early into adulthoood I remember reading a line from Morgan Housel that said something like “when most people say they want to be a millionaire what they really mean is they want to spend a million dollars. Which is the fastest way to not be a millionaire anymore”.
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I used to get 'the look' for driving a Supra in my 20's (when I was supposed to be poor). Now I get 'the look' for driving a Honda Fit to my fancy job parking next to all the Jags, Porsches, and Audis LOL... You just can't win.
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I used to get 'the look' for driving a Supra in my 20's (when I was supposed to be poor). Now I get 'the look' for driving a Honda Fit to my fancy job parking next to all the Jags, Porsches, and Audis LOL... You just can't win.
MKIV? The last Supra I had a decade ago is probably now worth about triple what I sold it for... It was a MKIII though so no one ever equated it to wealth.
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He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
Great response! It's amazing how people can't see the correlation between having cash and not owning expensive things.
Early into adulthoood I remember reading a line from Morgan Housel that said something like “when most people say they want to be a millionaire what they really mean is they want to spend a million dollars. Which is the fastest way to not be a millionaire anymore”.
Morgan Housel is a great writer! He has a useful summary of his book Psychology of Money in this blog post: https://collabfund.com/blog/the-psychology-of-money/
The relevant quote is:
If you see someone driving a $200,000 car, the only data point you have about their wealth is that they have $200,000 less than they did before they bought the car. Or they’re leasing the car, which truly offers no indication of wealth.
We tend to judge wealth by what we see. We can’t see people’s bank accounts or brokerage statements. So we rely on outward appearances to gauge financial success. Cars. Homes. Vacations. Instagram photos.
But this is America, and one of our cherished industries is helping people fake it until they make it.
Wealth, in fact, is what you don’t see. It’s the cars not purchased. The diamonds not bought. The renovations postponed, the clothes forgone and the first-class upgrade declined. It’s assets in the bank that haven’t yet been converted into the stuff you see.
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I used to get 'the look' for driving a Supra in my 20's (when I was supposed to be poor). Now I get 'the look' for driving a Honda Fit to my fancy job parking next to all the Jags, Porsches, and Audis LOL... You just can't win.
MKIV? The last Supra I had a decade ago is probably now worth about triple what I sold it for... It was a MKIII though so no one ever equated it to wealth.
Yup, MK4 Fast & Furious style, without the clothes drying rack on the tail... bought it used and sold it for a profit after the movie, but definitely could've made more had I held. Wasn't very practical once children arrived...
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He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
Great response! It's amazing how people can't see the correlation between having cash and not owning expensive things.
Early into adulthoood I remember reading a line from Morgan Housel that said something like “when most people say they want to be a millionaire what they really mean is they want to spend a million dollars. Which is the fastest way to not be a millionaire anymore”.
Morgan Housel is a great writer! He has a useful summary of his book Psychology of Money in this blog post: https://collabfund.com/blog/the-psychology-of-money/
The relevant quote is:
If you see someone driving a $200,000 car, the only data point you have about their wealth is that they have $200,000 less than they did before they bought the car. Or they’re leasing the car, which truly offers no indication of wealth.
We tend to judge wealth by what we see. We can’t see people’s bank accounts or brokerage statements. So we rely on outward appearances to gauge financial success. Cars. Homes. Vacations. Instagram photos.
But this is America, and one of our cherished industries is helping people fake it until they make it.
Wealth, in fact, is what you don’t see. It’s the cars not purchased. The diamonds not bought. The renovations postponed, the clothes forgone and the first-class upgrade declined. It’s assets in the bank that haven’t yet been converted into the stuff you see.
That is an excellent Quote.
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I used to get 'the look' for driving a Supra in my 20's (when I was supposed to be poor). Now I get 'the look' for driving a Honda Fit to my fancy job parking next to all the Jags, Porsches, and Audis LOL... You just can't win.
MKIV? The last Supra I had a decade ago is probably now worth about triple what I sold it for... It was a MKIII though so no one ever equated it to wealth.
Yup, MK4 Fast & Furious style, without the clothes drying rack on the tail... bought it used and sold it for a profit after the movie, but definitely could've made more had I held. Wasn't very practical once children arrived...
Very nice. I always wanted a MKIV and figured I would be able to afford one once they depreciated a bit more. This was in the late 90s when you could get a nice used Turbo 6-speed for around $30k. Then that stupid movie came out and they were never affordable again...
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Early into adulthoood I remember reading a line from Morgan Housel that said something like “when most people say they want to be a millionaire what they really mean is they want to spend a million dollars. Which is the fastest way to not be a millionaire anymore”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxJQHG1IEg
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Early into adulthoood I remember reading a line from Morgan Housel that said something like “when most people say they want to be a millionaire what they really mean is they want to spend a million dollars. Which is the fastest way to not be a millionaire anymore”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxJQHG1IEg
Why are live versions always the best? Cause it costs… more!
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Early into adulthoood I remember reading a line from Morgan Housel that said something like “when most people say they want to be a millionaire what they really mean is they want to spend a million dollars. Which is the fastest way to not be a millionaire anymore”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxJQHG1IEg
Why are live versions always the best? Cause it costs… more!
That song came out in 92. You would need almost 2.2 million for all that stuff today.
https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000000&year1=199201&year2=202304
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxJQHG1IEg
For years I've wanted an old panther body based limo to transport me and my friends to bicycle events (serviceable but tired examples routinely show up for ~$5k) . If/when we ever cross the $1000000 net worth threshold, I may actually do it and drive around playing this song.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxJQHG1IEg
For years I've wanted an old panther body based limo to transport me and my friends to bicycle events (serviceable but tired examples routinely show up for ~$5k) . If/when we ever cross the $1000000 net worth threshold, I may actually do it and drive around playing this song.
but not a real panther body, that's cruel
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but not a real panther body, that's cruel
No, anything with a northstar engine is the cruel option. :D
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The latest big one was just at the beginning of the pandemic when then BF (a scruffy Jason Mamoa-look-a-like laid back surfer dude with crazy hair and old flip flops and shorts - and me equally scruffy and wild looking lol) sold his paid off house and moved into my place while I sold later. After that we started started looking for a new place together. I had gone car-less by then and he had an old truck. Each time we looked at houses and the realtor saw what we were driving and wearing they pretty much blew us off immediately. Then when we said we weren't employed and were planning on paying cash on some very expensive properties (Coastal SoCal) we both got "The Look".
I wonder if they thought you were drug dealers . . .
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Early into adulthoood I remember reading a line from Morgan Housel that said something like “when most people say they want to be a millionaire what they really mean is they want to spend a million dollars. Which is the fastest way to not be a millionaire anymore”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxJQHG1IEg
Why are live versions always the best? Cause it costs… more!
That song came out in 92. You would need almost 2.2 million for all that stuff today.
https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000000&year1=199201&year2=202304
It's pretty easy to swap out "if I had a million dollars" with "If I had two million dollars" - adding the "two-point-two million" just messes up the cadence.
Maybe we should just inflation-proof it for a while and go straight to "if I had ten million dollars"...?
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Early into adulthoood I remember reading a line from Morgan Housel that said something like “when most people say they want to be a millionaire what they really mean is they want to spend a million dollars. Which is the fastest way to not be a millionaire anymore”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxJQHG1IEg
Why are live versions always the best? Cause it costs… more!
That song came out in 92. You would need almost 2.2 million for all that stuff today.
https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000000&year1=199201&year2=202304
It's pretty easy to swap out "if I had a million dollars" with "If I had two million dollars" - adding the "two-point-two million" just messes up the cadence.
Maybe we should just inflation-proof it for a while and go straight to "if I had ten million dollars"...?
Hmm, one trillion dollars could buy a lot of bling in 2006. It ballooned to something like 3 trillion by 2008 though.
https://youtu.be/YD3RNouwvOU
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/true-cost-iraq-war-3-trillion-and-beyond
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Coworker: What makes you so sure?
Me: Math
I had a somewhat similar question answered by me with "I did the math."
Having just switched jobs and finally able to begin 401k contributions again I set the rate to deduct at something like 36%.
The payroll person that goes and sets that up I'm sure did the quick math to know that my salary at that contribution rate would blow past the yearly maximum (if it went through all 26 payment periods of a calendar year). They came up to me with their printout, pointed at the rate I entered, and asked "Did you mean to do this?"
I had started in the middle of the year, my contribution rate at the previous employer was intentionally lower because I it was easy for me to adjust that in between every paycheck (and I was choosing to ramp up contributions throughout the year and prior to known bonus checks), and there was of course the 2 month dead time between ending my previous employment and being able to enroll in the new company's retirement plan.
So, I just said that I had done the math to get myself to the yearly contribution limit. They said "Okay, if you're sure," and gave "The Look".
I sat near them so would overhear them going through some non-sensitive employee on-boarding items if people had questions.
A memorable one was around the topic of what to do with their old 401k. Here is how their conversation went.
PP: = Payroll Person
NEW: = New Employee
NEW: Oh, I already cashed out my old 401k.
PP: Okay, use it for anything fun?
NEW: Yeah, we used it for the down payment of a home improvement loan so we could put in a pool.
PP: That's great!
NEW:Plus, the market is down since then. So, I'm coming out way ahead!
PP: Good for you!
This is when I quietly gave "The Look".
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PP: = Payroll Person
NEW: = New Employee
NEW: Oh, I already cashed out my old 401k.
PP: Okay, use it for anything fun?
NEW: Yeah, we used it for the down payment of a home improvement loan so we could put in a pool.
PP: That's great!
NEW:Plus, the market is down since then. So, I'm coming out way ahead!
PP: Good for you!
This is when I quietly gave "The Look".
That is painful to read. I cringe whenever I hear someone talking about taking a 401k loan, but cashing out to dig a hole in the ground just hurts.
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PP: = Payroll Person
NEW: = New Employee
NEW: Oh, I already cashed out my old 401k.
PP: Okay, use it for anything fun?
NEW: Yeah, we used it for the down payment of a home improvement loan so we could put in a pool.
PP: That's great!
NEW:Plus, the market is down since then. So, I'm coming out way ahead!
PP: Good for you!
This is when I quietly gave "The Look".
That is painful to read. I cringe whenever I hear someone talking about taking a 401k loan, but cashing out to dig a hole in the ground just hurts.
To be fair it's in the HR person's interest to encourage this sort of behavior. It's much easier to fuck over your employees if they can't afford to miss a paycheck.
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It's much easier to fuck over your employees if they can't afford to miss a paycheck.
Truer words...
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PP: = Payroll Person
NEW: = New Employee
NEW: Oh, I already cashed out my old 401k.
PP: Okay, use it for anything fun?
NEW: Yeah, we used it for the down payment of a home improvement loan so we could put in a pool.
PP: That's great!
NEW:Plus, the market is down since then. So, I'm coming out way ahead!
PP: Good for you!
This is when I quietly gave "The Look".
That is painful to read. I cringe whenever I hear someone talking about taking a 401k loan, but cashing out to dig a hole in the ground just hurts.
Literally digging a hole to throw the money into. Maybe they want to be an example for their kids.
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"Literally digging a hole to throw the money into. Maybe they want to be an example for their kids."
seriously? I am appalled at such lack of gratitude!.. I mean, these people are stimulating the very economy we need so we can sit on our asses when FIRE'd.
Personally I LOVE spenders.. Sometimes I stand at the bottom of my driveway and applaud the sheeple as they drive past me in the SUV's and trucks on their way to that thing called "work"...
Some of them even tell me about their "freedoms" too..:)
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Personally I LOVE spenders.. Sometimes I stand at the bottom of my driveway and applaud the sheeple as they drive past me in the SUV's and trucks on their way to that thing called "work"...
That was cold.
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Personally I LOVE spenders.. Sometimes I stand at the bottom of my driveway and applaud the sheeple as they drive past me in the SUV's and trucks on their way to that thing called "work"...
That was cold.
The good thing about this forum is you can say things you'd never repeat to the endebted masses..:)
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"Literally digging a hole to throw the money into. Maybe they want to be an example for their kids."
seriously? I am appalled at such lack of gratitude!.. I mean, these people are stimulating the very economy we need so we can sit on our asses when FIRE'd.
Personally I LOVE spenders.. Sometimes I stand at the bottom of my driveway and applaud the sheeple as they drive past me in the SUV's and trucks on their way to that thing called "work"...
Some of them even tell me about their "freedoms" too..:)
Love it!
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"Literally digging a hole to throw the money into. Maybe they want to be an example for their kids."
seriously? I am appalled at such lack of gratitude!.. I mean, these people are stimulating the very economy we need so we can sit on our asses when FIRE'd.
Personally I LOVE spenders.. Sometimes I stand at the bottom of my driveway and applaud the sheeple as they drive past me in the SUV's and trucks on their way to that thing called "work"...
Some of them even tell me about their "freedoms" too..:)
Love it!
I would prefer to breathe clean air, walk on surfaces that aren't paved, let my kids play in the street safely, etc. They aren't just hurting themselves.
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...
Literally digging a hole to throw the money into. Maybe they want to be an example for their kids.
Years ago some FB friends simultaneously put in a pool and bought a RV that got parked next to the hole. I posted in response asking if they were trying to create a money black hole vortex between the two cash sinks, they did think it was funny and sort of agreed.
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I don't know if this counts, but my appearance must give off "poor" vibes - over the years I've had a few instances of acquaintances being surprised that I even had an average middle-class life:
- many years ago when I went to buy my first house I attended a seminar/workshop for first-time homebuyers. Immediately after walking in I was asked by one of the vendors if I was there to buy a mobile home. Huh? No, I'm buying a single family home by myself, thanks...
- I've now lived in a middle-class/upper middle-class neighborhood for many years. My employer at the time was surprised I purchased a home here. More recently when I was introduced to a distant family member who also used to live here, he asked if I lived in an apartment. Nope, have my own home and have owned it for many years, thanks...
I think my clothes, shoes, car, etc. are average, not fancy but somehow my appearance is saying "just scraping by"?
It's sure another lesson in not judging people by first impressions.
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...
Literally digging a hole to throw the money into. Maybe they want to be an example for their kids.
Years ago some FB friends simultaneously put in a pool and bought a RV that got parked next to the hole. I posted in response asking if they were trying to create a money black hole vortex between the two cash sinks, they did think it was funny and sort of agreed.
Add a boat on a trailer behind the RV and you have the perfect combo of money singularities :-)
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...
Literally digging a hole to throw the money into. Maybe they want to be an example for their kids.
Years ago some FB friends simultaneously put in a pool and bought a RV that got parked next to the hole. I posted in response asking if they were trying to create a money black hole vortex between the two cash sinks, they did think it was funny and sort of agreed.
At least they have some self awareness, even if they choose not to act on it. The sense of humor helps too.
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This couple had some job loss misfortunes years before, and I suspect the toys (they could very well have a boat too) are some sort of "we had it hard before we deserve this now" ting, I dont know. Nice people, wish them the best, but duck I dont want to think about how much effort they probably put into managing monthly cash flow.
It was not exactly a look but when I was buying my current place the realtor wanted proof I had the money for the cash offer I was making so I sent a screen shot of my brokerage account with a balance several factors more than was needed for the home. Tone of her response changed a bit.
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Get lot of "huh you're retired??" but then they aren't as impressed when they discover that means you won't match their lifestyle lol. Then it's just "you're cheap" or "Why don't you just buy an expensive new thing to fix your problem??".
Borderline "Why don't you just go back to work so you can spend more money? You have time since you're retired!"
lol
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It was not exactly a look but when I was buying my current place the realtor wanted proof I had the money for the cash offer I was making so I sent a screen shot of my brokerage account with a balance several factors more than was needed for the home. Tone of her response changed a bit.
Nice!.. I bet it did..:)
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It was not exactly a look but when I was buying my current place the realtor wanted proof I had the money for the cash offer I was making so I sent a screen shot of my brokerage account with a balance several factors more than was needed for the home. Tone of her response changed a bit.
Nice!.. I bet it did..:)
This particular realtor might have had her own issues, but it is industry standard to offer proof of funds when making a cash offer. It’s not unreasonable the buyer will want to know you can actually pay before they put their home in a lengthy contract, same as requesting a mortgage pre authorization .
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It was not exactly a look but when I was buying my current place the realtor wanted proof I had the money for the cash offer I was making so I sent a screen shot of my brokerage account with a balance several factors more than was needed for the home. Tone of her response changed a bit.
Nice!.. I bet it did..:)
This particular realtor might have had her own issues, but it is industry standard to offer proof of funds when making a cash offer. It’s not unreasonable the buyer will want to know you can actually pay before they put their home in a lengthy contract, same as requesting a mortgage pre authorization .
I think it was the " several factors above the asking price" that caused "the look". Most likely the realtor thought they should use the full amount in their account for a down payment on the giant Mcmansion (or two!). I've just seen the "look" myself.
100% it is appropriate to show proof of funds. I had worked with her before and she had sold my single family home in middle of no where suburbia a few months before and I think fully understood I wanted to live somewhere for location and walkable amenities. The area I wanted to go to had relatively little inventory and mostly in a narrow price range so was not really an option for her to even really push me to a higher price point. We did look at a few things higher than I wanted spend just to calibrate my expectations, but they were in an area I ultimately decided I did not want to live in. Fuller story in my Journal, link in my footer.
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Ah ok makes sense
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Just started reading the thread and I'll go back to do that but wanted to throw this into the mix:
We got the "look" when some of our family realized we were not poor, we were frugal.
Old cars, well-worn clothes, making things last, buying used, quality over quantity, formerly LCOL zip code, repairing rather than replacing. Sure we could have shiny things but our ability to chase lasting choices would be diminished.
We're at that part of the train ride where the benefits of playing the long game is starting show. I dread any "cold shoulders" we might get from people close to us who didn't choose to play the long game and start to feel the consequences of their own choices for better or worse. We're not the most well off, nor the worst (by far). We're right where we wanted to be.
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I get 'the Look' when I've told someone I can't afford an X when we were out windowshopping, but then buy a Y the next week. It's just that in my head the budget for X was empty (or there was no need for another X at that time), but I had been saving up for Y for quite some time.
For X read 'clothes', and for Y read 'specific piece of art'.
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I get 'the Look' when I've told someone I can't afford an X when we were out windowshopping, but then buy a Y the next week. It's just that in my head the budget for X was empty (or there was no need for another X at that time), but I had been saving up for Y for quite some time.
For X read 'clothes', and for Y read 'specific piece of art'.
I got the look, luckily followed by a lightbulb, when a friend said she couldn't afford something and I responded that we could afford it, but it isn't how we choose to spend. She has plenty of luxury spending and I have since heard her use similar phrasing. To me, the difference is gratitude.
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I just remembered another moment when I received an equivalent to "The Look" over the phone.
A representative from the bank that handles my mortgage and home insurance called to ask if I would be interested in having them check to see if they could get me a better price on my car insurance. I said sure, why not? I'm always down for potential savings. They said they needed to get some information about my current policy in order to give me a quote for a similar policy that mirrors my existing one. Because I drive a 13 year old vehicle with 172,000 miles and a KBB value of about $1500, I obviously don't bother with comprehensive coverage, just liability. And because I have so much in savings, I opt for high deductibles and minimum coverage amounts. When I told the representative what my coverage options were on my current policy, she told me that they recommend lower deductibles and higher coverage amounts, because "If you end up in a major accident you could end up having to pay thousands of dollars!" I had to assure her multiple times that I understood the risks and was comfortable with my current coverage selections. Eventually I just said "Listen, I drive about 5 miles a week on average, at an average speed of about 35MPH (town driving, rarely on highways). It is very unlikely that I'm going to hit someone else's car hard enough to cause major damage. And even if that does happen, an unexpected expense of several thousand dollars is not going to impact my finances in any meaningful way."
I could feel "The Look" through the phone.
Apparently it's an utterly alien concept that someone in their mid 20s could have several thousand dollars set aside for emergencies.
On a similar note I get a letter in the mail about once a month from my electric company encouraging me to buy their hardware insurance policy that covers the cost of damages to the exterior power lines that feed into my house. The letters always highlight that "if you elect not to carry insurance, you could be responsible for as much as $1,000 in repair costs! as if that prospect is supposed to scare me into giving them $100 a year in case a tree suddenly sprouts up, grows 20 feet tall, and falls onto one of my power lines.
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Back when we had the misfortune to have Comcast as our internet provider I got a phone call trying to sell my an upgraded package with television content. It was a struggle to get the person on the phone to believe that we don’t watch tv and I had to repeat myself a few times. The person couldn’t understand me and finally asked something along the lines of why not. “Because there are so many other great things to do in life!”
The phone call thankfully ended soon after.
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On a similar note I get a letter in the mail about once a month from my electric company encouraging me to buy their hardware insurance policy that covers the cost of damages to the exterior power lines that feed into my house. The letters always highlight that "if you elect not to carry insurance, you could be responsible for as much as $1,000 in repair costs! as if that prospect is supposed to scare me into giving them $100 a year in case a tree suddenly sprouts up, grows 20 feet tall, and falls onto one of my power lines.
Reminds me of those predatory life insurance policy ads on tv where they say “funeral costs could be as much as $1500!!!!” Or whatever. Like yeah if a loved one dies I’m not that worried about funeral costs although I understand not everyone is in that privileged a position
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This reminds me of a conversation I once had with two friends. One was from the same middle class background as me, and the other was from an extremely rich family (as in he was born into the top 100 richest families in my country of birth).
Rich Friend was genuinely curious how me and Other Friend defined "rich". Other Friend immediately said "I have no idea!" I said, "If one of my family gets sick, and I'm only worried about them getting better, and not how to pay their medical bills, then I'm rich."
I got two Looks that day. Rich Friend looked impressed. Other Friend just goggled at me.
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Back when we had the misfortune to have Comcast as our internet provider I got a phone call trying to sell my an upgraded package with television content. It was a struggle to get the person on the phone to believe that we don’t watch tv and I had to repeat myself a few times. The person couldn’t understand me and finally asked something along the lines of why not. “Because there are so many other great things to do in life!”
The phone call thankfully ended soon after.
I had a very similar conversation with a Comcast rep just a couple weeks ago when I called to negotiate a lower rate for my internet. They were trying to sell me on some new Fire Stick-esque thing they're offering now. It's apparently a lot cheaper than their regular TV bundles and includes access to 40 of the most popular channels. They actually read off to me all 40 of the channels. Once they finished I responded with "No thanks, I don't watch any of those." They then asked "What about Netflix? Hulu? Amazon Prime? Disney Plus?" Nope, nope, nope, and nope. I told them I just don't care for TV all that much, which is mostly true, but also you can stream pretty much anything for free online if you know where to look. I didn't mention that part ;)
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God, the smug in this thread is off the charts. Its giving me a headache.
Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
His face scrunched up and he gave me "The Look" - as though he wanted to ask "How can that be? That does not fit into my understanding of reality, that a single, non-wealthy-appearing woman owns a very expensive piece of real estate."
I have gotten "The Look" at other times also. I usually get it when I mention that I own a condo, but I have also gotten it when I mention I am a computer programmer - somehow I do not fit into people's stereotypical vision of what a computer programmer looks like (i.e. young and male and high-salaried).
Does anyone else get "The Look"? I have a very low-key appearance and do not flaunt my wealth, educational, or career accomplishments in any way, which seems to lead strangers to conclude that I am not wealthy or successful.
Lol, no. Dude just figured your parents bought it for you.
Ooooh…. I got a new “the look” this week! Actually two different “looks” in rapid succession.
We are several months into the design and permitting phase of a home renovation that involves some new foundation piers and modifications to the roof. At 900 sqft our home is among the smallest in the area (hence the renovation) and fairly average in curb appearance
This week I met with the structural engineer. He parked his new massive $60k pickup behind my 2012 hatchback and started poking around. Move on his pickup below…
Right away he started giving me “the look #1” - aka the “this is way out of your financial capabilities. He was polite enough, starting with “this is a pretty big job” and then “digging proper footings is never cheap”. To which I kinda laughed and said “yeah, I know”. He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
He chuckled and said “oh no, it won’t be that much - that’s a 2023 Chevy 2500 with a 6 liter V8. It sells for $60k new. I only have it because they offered me a great lease when i traded in my 2018.” To which I responded “great, if it’s a lot less than that we’re good”. That put him off balance. As a last resort he asked “have you spoken to your bank about a construction loan, because most are charging over 7% if they’ll fund the project at all. Damn fed raising rates…” My response: “no, we’ve got the cash. Actually we want to start the project soon because we’re tired of it just sitting in our checking account earning 1.9% interest”
Which prompted “look #2” - aka “how can you possibly have that much money?”
Not to be a dick, but put yourself in his shoes. Would you bid on a job for someone with no money? Especially if you're a structural engineer, where you've got to do significant work just to make the quote. Also, in the trades, you usually don't get paid until the end or after you make significant investment yourself and I think you'd be surprised at how often GC's get stiffed and don't have the time or knowledge to pursue the customer for their payment.
As for look #2, yeah, he thought it was an inheritance or that you were full of shit.
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God, the smug in this thread is off the charts. Its giving me a headache.
Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
His face scrunched up and he gave me "The Look" - as though he wanted to ask "How can that be? That does not fit into my understanding of reality, that a single, non-wealthy-appearing woman owns a very expensive piece of real estate."
I have gotten "The Look" at other times also. I usually get it when I mention that I own a condo, but I have also gotten it when I mention I am a computer programmer - somehow I do not fit into people's stereotypical vision of what a computer programmer looks like (i.e. young and male and high-salaried).
Does anyone else get "The Look"? I have a very low-key appearance and do not flaunt my wealth, educational, or career accomplishments in any way, which seems to lead strangers to conclude that I am not wealthy or successful.
Lol, no. Dude just figured your parents bought it for you.
Ooooh…. I got a new “the look” this week! Actually two different “looks” in rapid succession.
We are several months into the design and permitting phase of a home renovation that involves some new foundation piers and modifications to the roof. At 900 sqft our home is among the smallest in the area (hence the renovation) and fairly average in curb appearance
This week I met with the structural engineer. He parked his new massive $60k pickup behind my 2012 hatchback and started poking around. Move on his pickup below…
Right away he started giving me “the look #1” - aka the “this is way out of your financial capabilities. He was polite enough, starting with “this is a pretty big job” and then “digging proper footings is never cheap”. To which I kinda laughed and said “yeah, I know”. He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
He chuckled and said “oh no, it won’t be that much - that’s a 2023 Chevy 2500 with a 6 liter V8. It sells for $60k new. I only have it because they offered me a great lease when i traded in my 2018.” To which I responded “great, if it’s a lot less than that we’re good”. That put him off balance. As a last resort he asked “have you spoken to your bank about a construction loan, because most are charging over 7% if they’ll fund the project at all. Damn fed raising rates…” My response: “no, we’ve got the cash. Actually we want to start the project soon because we’re tired of it just sitting in our checking account earning 1.9% interest”
Which prompted “look #2” - aka “how can you possibly have that much money?”
Not to be a dick, but put yourself in his shoes. Would you bid on a job for someone with no money? Especially if you're a structural engineer, where you've got to do significant work just to make the quote. Also, in the trades, you usually don't get paid until the end or after you make significant investment yourself and I think you'd be surprised at how often GC's get stiffed and don't have the time or knowledge to pursue the customer for their payment.
As for look #2, yeah, he thought it was an inheritance or that you were full of shit.
You’ve missed the entire point of this thread. Around here it’s not at all remarkable for adults in their 30s or 40s to own their own home outright, or to have $50k in their account, or similar. We consider it part of being a fiscally-responsible adult. Frankly it’s absurd that people have become so accustomed to debt and spending everything they earn - that’s the origin of “the look”. It should not be surprising when a homeowner has the financial means to make five-figure repairs, because thats part of owning a home.
Reading through others accounts, there is a secondary theme of misogyny. People being shocked that a woman (especially a single woman) knows how to fix, build, repair or pay for something expensive. Again, the surprising thing is that it’s at all surprising in our society. My wife gets this all the time
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God, the smug in this thread is off the charts. Its giving me a headache.
Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
His face scrunched up and he gave me "The Look" - as though he wanted to ask "How can that be? That does not fit into my understanding of reality, that a single, non-wealthy-appearing woman owns a very expensive piece of real estate."
I have gotten "The Look" at other times also. I usually get it when I mention that I own a condo, but I have also gotten it when I mention I am a computer programmer - somehow I do not fit into people's stereotypical vision of what a computer programmer looks like (i.e. young and male and high-salaried).
Does anyone else get "The Look"? I have a very low-key appearance and do not flaunt my wealth, educational, or career accomplishments in any way, which seems to lead strangers to conclude that I am not wealthy or successful.
Lol, no. Dude just figured your parents bought it for you.
Ooooh…. I got a new “the look” this week! Actually two different “looks” in rapid succession.
We are several months into the design and permitting phase of a home renovation that involves some new foundation piers and modifications to the roof. At 900 sqft our home is among the smallest in the area (hence the renovation) and fairly average in curb appearance
This week I met with the structural engineer. He parked his new massive $60k pickup behind my 2012 hatchback and started poking around. Move on his pickup below…
Right away he started giving me “the look #1” - aka the “this is way out of your financial capabilities. He was polite enough, starting with “this is a pretty big job” and then “digging proper footings is never cheap”. To which I kinda laughed and said “yeah, I know”. He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
He chuckled and said “oh no, it won’t be that much - that’s a 2023 Chevy 2500 with a 6 liter V8. It sells for $60k new. I only have it because they offered me a great lease when i traded in my 2018.” To which I responded “great, if it’s a lot less than that we’re good”. That put him off balance. As a last resort he asked “have you spoken to your bank about a construction loan, because most are charging over 7% if they’ll fund the project at all. Damn fed raising rates…” My response: “no, we’ve got the cash. Actually we want to start the project soon because we’re tired of it just sitting in our checking account earning 1.9% interest”
Which prompted “look #2” - aka “how can you possibly have that much money?”
Not to be a dick, but put yourself in his shoes. Would you bid on a job for someone with no money? Especially if you're a structural engineer, where you've got to do significant work just to make the quote. Also, in the trades, you usually don't get paid until the end or after you make significant investment yourself and I think you'd be surprised at how often GC's get stiffed and don't have the time or knowledge to pursue the customer for their payment.
As for look #2, yeah, he thought it was an inheritance or that you were full of shit.
You’ve missed the entire point of this thread. Around here it’s not at all remarkable for adults in their 30s or 40s to own their own home outright, or to have $50k in their account, or similar. We consider it part of being a fiscally-responsible adult. Frankly it’s absurd that people have become so accustomed to debt and spending everything they earn - that’s the origin of “the look”. It should not be surprising when a homeowner has the financial means to make five-figure repairs, because thats part of owning a home.
Reading through others accounts, there is a secondary theme of misogyny. People being shocked that a woman (especially a single woman) knows how to fix, build, repair or pay for something expensive. Again, the surprising thing is that it’s at all surprising in our society. My wife gets this all the time
I didn't miss anything.
I get the bankers and stuff being surprised when someone rolls up on a bike looking shabby but it turns out they have a zillion dollars in the account. Its mildly amusing, though the moral implication that you're better than the other party because of your extra wealth is a bit pukey.
Anyways, I picked out these two examples though because I think the looks were somewhat justified given the information the contractors had at the time.
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God, the smug in this thread is off the charts. Its giving me a headache.
Recently I got my condo painted. I live in the HCOL Bay Area, and own a two-bedroom condo. I am a single woman Mustachian with no obvious signs of wealth, and I keep my bicycle in my living room.
The painter and I were talking about the job, and he said, "This place, you rent it, right?"
I said, "No, I own it."
His face scrunched up and he gave me "The Look" - as though he wanted to ask "How can that be? That does not fit into my understanding of reality, that a single, non-wealthy-appearing woman owns a very expensive piece of real estate."
I have gotten "The Look" at other times also. I usually get it when I mention that I own a condo, but I have also gotten it when I mention I am a computer programmer - somehow I do not fit into people's stereotypical vision of what a computer programmer looks like (i.e. young and male and high-salaried).
Does anyone else get "The Look"? I have a very low-key appearance and do not flaunt my wealth, educational, or career accomplishments in any way, which seems to lead strangers to conclude that I am not wealthy or successful.
Lol, no. Dude just figured your parents bought it for you.
Ooooh…. I got a new “the look” this week! Actually two different “looks” in rapid succession.
We are several months into the design and permitting phase of a home renovation that involves some new foundation piers and modifications to the roof. At 900 sqft our home is among the smallest in the area (hence the renovation) and fairly average in curb appearance
This week I met with the structural engineer. He parked his new massive $60k pickup behind my 2012 hatchback and started poking around. Move on his pickup below…
Right away he started giving me “the look #1” - aka the “this is way out of your financial capabilities. He was polite enough, starting with “this is a pretty big job” and then “digging proper footings is never cheap”. To which I kinda laughed and said “yeah, I know”. He became a bit frustrated that he wasn’t getting through to my poor ass that this was a project I clearly couldn’t afford, so he goes “you know you could buy a new car for what this might cost”. I paused for a second thinking about how to respond and then I pointed to his truck and asked “like, the cost of your truck there?”
He chuckled and said “oh no, it won’t be that much - that’s a 2023 Chevy 2500 with a 6 liter V8. It sells for $60k new. I only have it because they offered me a great lease when i traded in my 2018.” To which I responded “great, if it’s a lot less than that we’re good”. That put him off balance. As a last resort he asked “have you spoken to your bank about a construction loan, because most are charging over 7% if they’ll fund the project at all. Damn fed raising rates…” My response: “no, we’ve got the cash. Actually we want to start the project soon because we’re tired of it just sitting in our checking account earning 1.9% interest”
Which prompted “look #2” - aka “how can you possibly have that much money?”
Not to be a dick, but put yourself in his shoes. Would you bid on a job for someone with no money? Especially if you're a structural engineer, where you've got to do significant work just to make the quote. Also, in the trades, you usually don't get paid until the end or after you make significant investment yourself and I think you'd be surprised at how often GC's get stiffed and don't have the time or knowledge to pursue the customer for their payment.
As for look #2, yeah, he thought it was an inheritance or that you were full of shit.
You’ve missed the entire point of this thread. Around here it’s not at all remarkable for adults in their 30s or 40s to own their own home outright, or to have $50k in their account, or similar. We consider it part of being a fiscally-responsible adult. Frankly it’s absurd that people have become so accustomed to debt and spending everything they earn - that’s the origin of “the look”. It should not be surprising when a homeowner has the financial means to make five-figure repairs, because thats part of owning a home.
Reading through others accounts, there is a secondary theme of misogyny. People being shocked that a woman (especially a single woman) knows how to fix, build, repair or pay for something expensive. Again, the surprising thing is that it’s at all surprising in our society. My wife gets this all the time
I didn't miss anything.
I get the bankers and stuff being surprised when someone rolls up on a bike looking shabby but it turns out they have a zillion dollars in the account. Its mildly amusing, though the moral implication that you're better than the other party because of your extra wealth is a bit pukey.
Anyways, I picked out these two examples though because I think the looks were somewhat justified given the information the contractors had at the time.
I agree that the questions from the contractors are justified because they want to get paid. However, "the look" is not justified. "The look" is an American misunderstanding of how people in this country actually build wealth.
The inaccurate American stereotype is that to have wealth, you need a fancy house and fancy car, which is pretty much the exact opposite of how it happens. According to the "Millionaire Next Door" book, millionaires are more likely to have a modest house and car. They live below their means and invest the difference. They did a revision of the millionaire next door book a few years ago. For households with a 10 million+ net worth the average cost of a car for them was 47K. This was pre-COVID. Not sure if the "average" was mean or median.
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I get the look every time I say I’m going to actually retire when I’m eligible. (I have a pension). I’ve gotten tired of trying to change anyone so I just say, I’m not divorced. Generally this turns the look into a makes ssence to me nod.
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I didn't miss anything.
I get the bankers and stuff being surprised when someone rolls up on a bike looking shabby but it turns out they have a zillion dollars in the account. Its mildly amusing, though the moral implication that you're better than the other party because of your extra wealth is a bit pukey.
Anyways, I picked out these two examples though because I think the looks were somewhat justified given the information the contractors had at the time.
The structural engineers job is to provide detailed plans following the architects design for permitting and for the GC to follow. He’s not the architect or the GC. His fee was set by the contract, and it doesn’t change if the build costs $2,000 or $200k. He isn’t out anything if we cancel the project. seemed to be our
As for contractors, the norm is to agree to a payment schedule with a down payment up front for larger jobs or ones with more perceived risk.
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Have you ever gotten “the look” for quoting and replying to a 6 year old post?
And Btw it’s spelled “Smaug”
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I spared a young employee at a hardware store from giving me the look.
I had purchased a tool chest online (with in-store pickup) and grabbed a couple of gallons of paint and headed for self-checkout.
The employee monitoring self-checkout asked for a receipt for the tool chest, and I showed him the "already paid/in-store pickup" sticker on it. Then he decided he needed to check inside the chest to make sure I wasn't smuggling out anything else. I just smiled.
I didn't have the heart to tell him that—despite the way I was dressed—he was searching a millionaire.
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I didn't have the heart to tell him that—despite the way I was dressed—he was searching a millionaire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winona_Ryder#2001_arrest
People don't always steal out of desperation.
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Hell, Donald Trump stole from his charity and he claims to be a billionaire.
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And Btw it’s spelled “Smaug”
Smug is an adjective and Smaug is a dragon. Or am I missing part of your humor?
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And Btw it’s spelled “Smaug”
Smug is an adjective and Smaug is a dragon. Or am I missing part of your humor?
Yes, and yes.