Do I really need big spend home improvements?

[Asgard01]

Hi all,

Just fancied hearing anyone's opinions/own experiences on big expensive home improvements and the reluctance to spend money. I myself own my own house mortgage free. It's a lovely home for my needs, 3 bedroom detached, garage, big garden etc but there's no denying that there are some big improvements that could be done. The house hasn't changed much since I have been born in it some 28 years ago.

The Windows and doors are original except the front door, no double glazing. The facia boards and guttering is prob 30 years old as is the garage door. Then we come to the insides, the carpets in all rooms are around 30 years old and the kitchen/bathroom has all the original storage draws and work tops etc. The toilet, shower and sinks are all around the 25-30 year mark also. The actual items in the house are however more modern, I had a new Samsung washing machine today delivered as my current one aged 8 years old finally died and my LG fridge freezer, zanussi cooker, dryer, microwave etc are pretty modern. I don't mind paying for items like that, I get the use out of them and the warranties are usually 5 years.

The problem I have is the cost for he big home improvements, new guttering, Windows, doors, carpets, kitchens, bathrooms etc just massively put me off. There is no doubt that the Windows, doors, guttering and facias if done would make the house look far more appealing but most of this is just aesthetics and vanity in some ways. Other than perhaps energy efficiency there really is no reason to get all these new improvements. I have no intention of selling my home so increasing value is also not that interesting to me. I seem to want to push this back to well, once I have reached FI, I might then save money to do up home that could last another 25 years maybe..

I can however well imagine that after having spent tens of thousands on the home, sitting in my newly carpeted lounge, walking into my new kitchen and having a bath in my new bathroom. The joy of these things won't last that long and that's another reason that is putting me off. Yes, my home may not look ultra modern and my guttering may look a little old but the benefits from changing all this perhaps is very minimal and is more to do with caring too much how others think of my home. I really enjoy what I have now, I can still have a warm bath, wash clothes, be sheltered from outside with my current Windows and doors. I feel no pressing need at times and then at others I think I need these changes.

Another thing is, I currently have a family friend who will put in a new kitchen and bathroom for me for free in terms of labour, but he is retiring in a year or two. What an awful situation to be in :).

Any thoughts?

Chris

[margarita]

If you are happy with the house the way it is and you don't want to spend the money then no, you don't need to do renovations.

I found my house started have big issues around the 30 year old mark.  Roof leaking, windows rotting, etc.
If you haven't had anything yet, you are lucky.  Are your utility bills high?  Often these items become priority over cosmetic renovations.

Personally, I would not want old carpet.  When you pull up an old carpet, it is really gross how much dust etc. is in the carpet (and then the allergies to dust, mold, etc).  I would replace carpet with laminate or wood floor (depending on the value of the house).

Alot of cosmetic home improvements looked dated in 20 years, so keep that in mind if you are not going to sell for another 25 years.

[Jeremy E.]

Do the work yourself, get good deals. You don't need to upgrade everything at once, one thing per year maybe. I recommend putting in things that will last, example, Metal roof if your current roof ever goes bad or laminate flooring with a lifetime warranty(Pergo was the brand I settled on for lasting the longest). Also aim for efficiency when making upgrades, and check with your utility company to see if you can get rebates for the upgrades(my utility company gave me rebates for putting in more efficient windows and also for upgrading to a heat pump).

[Asgard01]

I think to certain minds, they would not be able to cope having a frayed carpet that's not quite tight to the door, or showing some underlay in one area that no one can see unless they move something. To me, I just massively get put off by the cost of changing these things for very little function/practicality other than cosmetic/aesthetic considerations. My decor does defo look dated in parts but it doesn't bother me too much but I must admit sometimes I feel like I should change things but as I said, I think that's due to others opinions etc.

I want to do the guttering/Windows/facia boards at some point but the outlay makes me cringe and when I think nothing's really going to happen if I wait longer, I don't get around to it. It's always a next year thing. Saving money for FI has made that even worse. My electric and gas bills are fairly low and I think there's no doubt I could save money but I'd probably be FI by the time I saw those savings recuperated if I made the changes...

I do feel like a cheap skate at times but I'm just trying to have a high joy to stuff ratio. Look forward to hearing people's own experiences with stuff like this.

[Papa bear]

New windows, doors, and toilets will save you $$$$ on utilities.   Gutters, if not working properly, will absolutely wreck your house and foundation.  Fascia, soffit, etc if there is rot, should be replaced.   Some of these items you mention are not improvements, they are maintenance that keep your home safe for longer periods. 

Agree that DIY will save you major cash.  IMO, windows and doors are easier and more effective than doing gutters and fascia yourself.  I don't like ladders =).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[totoro]

If the aesthetics don't bother you, what you have is functional and you don't see any structural or health issues then I wouldn't.  The fact that you have no intention of reselling makes that decision even easier.

For me, my aesthetics/ingrained selective perfectionism sensibilities mean that any house stuff that is ugly or in disrepair gets fixed.  We have fixed up almost everything in our places and keep them well maintained.  We've paid more for this, but it is definitely worth it to me.  I work from home and would hate to be in an environment I felt uncomfortable with all day.

I guess what you do face is that at some point some components will degrade to the point of health/structural problems.  I'd identify those issues now and plan to repair/replace.  Roofs & gutters, any leaks, hot water tanks...   

I would note that if your house is pre-1960s some of the original components may have way more charm than an "upgrade".

[Asgard01]

Some of these items you mention are not improvements, they are maintenance that keep your home safe for longer periods.

That's a key point for me. Is delaying changing these things causing long term damage or more expenditure etc. Internal decor I can see no really argument for putting that off causing any real issues (please do enlighten me though). The outside of course is different as this is exposed to everything. The guttering appears to be working fine, it just looks very dated. The Windows and doors may need a lick of paint but can't really see any rotting going on.

On the spirit of paying for things that really do matter in maintenance terms, I was going to get a house survey done to tell me about anything that needs doing that's important etc. Costs about $400 for a complete survey with written to report etc.

Chris

[whydavid]

I can however well imagine that after having spent tens of thousands on the home, sitting in my newly carpeted lounge, walking into my new kitchen and having a bath in my new bathroom. The joy of these things won't last that long and that's another reason that is putting me off.

This actually was not true in our case (at least with our kitchen)...granted that might have been a special case. When we re-did the kitchen, we modified the layout to accommodate our personal lifestyles.  We put in a large island that my wife uses regularly when rolling out dough, there is an overhang on one end that serves as a great spot to sit down for breakfast or a snack, one end of the island has a wine rack that we use frequently, etc.  The island sits where a large, non-load-bearing wall used to sit.  The increased functionality, to say nothing of the aesthetics, still elicits frequent "do you remember when there was an ugly wall here?" type comments on a regular basis.  My wife still smiles every time she rolls out a big batch of dough on our island without having to tie down a plastic table-cloth over an old wooden table (this was her old M.O. since our old tile countertops had aged, disgusting grout upon which no self-respecting individual would roll out a porous food).  The best part was we spent less than $5000 total for new cabinets, opening up the floorplan, putting in the island, upgrading to granite countertops, putting in a stainless double-oven, and some other aesthetic upgrades since we used craigslist heavily and did the work ourselves.

What I mean to say is, thoughtful upgrades can bring joy long-term if they combine frugality with enhanced functionality, rather than just focusing on the aesthetics.  If we had replaced everything with newer versions of what was there, I don't think we would have gotten nearly as much enjoyment out of the upgrade process.

[paddedhat]

If you lack the skills, AND have the ability to end up with a bath and kitchen for the cost of materials, with the generous help of a friend, you would be fool to pass it up. If you contracted the job, labor, overhead, and profit are easily 60% of the bid. Given the updated appliances, both rooms could easily be tackled for well under $10k.

[sam]

From investing in the UK (in property), I can confirm Kitchens, Bathrooms and Double Glazing seem to have the biggest impact on the value of a house. Might be worth considering.

Sam

[seattlecyclone]

Double glazed windows will improve your energy efficiency a bit, but new windows can be quite expensive. The payoff can probably be measured in years to decades. Insulation can often be a bigger win in that area for much less cost.

[Sibley]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

[Jeremy E.]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

[snacky]

the thing about fixing up a uniformly older home is that if you, say, put down new carpet and paint one room, all of a sudden the adjoining rooms look shabby in comparison. be careful what you update, if you don't want to find yourself wanting to redo everything.

[seattlecyclone]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

The payoff here really depends on your local climate and the condition of the existing windows. My house has a bunch of old single-paned windows. If I replaced them all with the cheapest double-paned vinyl windows I could find at Home Depot and did all the work myself, I'd probably be looking at a $2,500 expense minimum. That's equivalent to about 6-8 years of my heating bills. Even if the new windows cut our heating needs in half (extremely unlikely), we're still looking at about 15 years for the energy savings to pay off the expense, by which time the cheapest vinyl windows money can buy will probably be in pretty sorry shape and need replacement. Install higher-quality, better-looking windows and the theoretical payoff date moves well past my life expectancy.

[justajane]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

Yeah, I disagree too. I was in another thread on here recently in which several people came on and told someone in a 1920s home to keep all the original wood windows. They said, "Just fix them up and they will be as good as new and last another 100 years." They must have experience with totally different windows than are in my bungalow. Some of mine are so bad that they won't even open properly. And they will always be single pane. Storm windows help a bit but not nearly as well as new windows would. It's no coincidence that the coldest rooms in our house are the ones with the original windows (the previous home owners selectively replaced windows).

Back to the OP - I don't know what to advise, but I will tell you the number of people I have met who finally upgrade a few select things in their homes and say, "Now why didn't I do that sooner?"

I would look into what bugs you about your home. Come on, something has got to bug you. Is it the layout of your kitchen? The faucet in your bathroom? The lighting in your bedroom? Whatever that is, upgrade or fix that. And of course, anything that is causing water issues or foundation issues.

[regulator]

We are generally happy with the state of our house.  I compromised when we bought it by accepting a small kitchen.  Several people have suggested redoing the kitchen and expanding into the seldom-used dining room for more space.  Problem is that would be a 40+k job (guessing), assuming you could get competent work done.  Hell no.

The windows are original early 70s and need to be replaced.  There will be some energy savings (cooling likely more than heating), but a lot of the improvement would be in comfort and reducing street noise.  If I cared about such things, it would also add to the value of the house.  Now to scrape up that 10k...

[index]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

Yeah, I disagree too. I was in another thread on here recently in which several people came on and told someone in a 1920s home to keep all the original wood windows. They said, "Just fix them up and they will be as good as new and last another 100 years." They must have experience with totally different windows than are in my bungalow. Some of mine are so bad that they won't even open properly. And they will always be single pane. Storm windows help a bit but not nearly as well as new windows would. It's no coincidence that the coldest rooms in our house are the ones with the original windows (the previous home owners selectively replaced windows).

Back to the OP - I don't know what to advise, but I will tell you the number of people I have met who finally upgrade a few select things in their homes and say, "Now why didn't I do that sooner?"

I would look into what bugs you about your home. Come on, something has got to bug you. Is it the layout of your kitchen? The faucet in your bathroom? The lighting in your bedroom? Whatever that is, upgrade or fix that. And of course, anything that is causing water issues or foundation issues.

Replacement windows are one of the worst upgrades you can do from an energy perspective.



Single pane windows account for roughly ~20% of you energy loss. Lets say your heating bills are $300 with your old windows. Even if you new windows are 8x as efficient as your old windows, you are looking at a savings of $50/month (best case scenario) for 8 heating/cooling months a year. So $400 per year. You are looking at $500/window for decent 30-yr replacement windows. These numbers are terribly inflated as well as you will probably see an energy savings of $25 per month and your 30-yr windows will begin having broken seals at year 15.     

If your old windowed rooms are cold and drafty, you need to reglaze and weatherstrip your old windows. A storm window will help as well and the low-e storms are eligible for tax credits. 

There are a lot of blogs that advocate fixing your old windows, but these people can be dismissed as "old house nuts". A better source giving you a balanced view of new vs old windows is green building advisor:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/what-should-i-do-my-old-windows

[partgypsy]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

Yeah, I disagree too. I was in another thread on here recently in which several people came on and told someone in a 1920s home to keep all the original wood windows. They said, "Just fix them up and they will be as good as new and last another 100 years." They must have experience with totally different windows than are in my bungalow. Some of mine are so bad that they won't even open properly. And they will always be single pane. Storm windows help a bit but not nearly as well as new windows would. It's no coincidence that the coldest rooms in our house are the ones with the original windows (the previous home owners selectively replaced windows).

Back to the OP - I don't know what to advise, but I will tell you the number of people I have met who finally upgrade a few select things in their homes and say, "Now why didn't I do that sooner?"

I would look into what bugs you about your home. Come on, something has got to bug you. Is it the layout of your kitchen? The faucet in your bathroom? The lighting in your bedroom? Whatever that is, upgrade or fix that. And of course, anything that is causing water issues or foundation issues.

yes it is hard to know unless you do them, how much you get back in satisfaction. We had our single pane wood windows replaced in our house with double paned efficient vinyl windows. To some this is sacriledge, but we were the ones living with air leaks and feeling cold air next to the window, rattling with traffic going by, many of them the pulley system was broken so they had to be propped open with the potential of coming down hard on a little one's hand, or stuck hard to open at all. The main reason we did it was the improved energy efficiency and functionality, but the biggest benefit was how much more quiet our house was from traffic sounds. It wasn't just the windows, but insulating the pockets of the walls around the windows which was not done.

In your case, get your roof checked it may be due or overdue for replacement. IMHO I would not want 30 year old carpet in my house, replace with wood or laminates of some kind (can always use throw carpets). check to make sure you don't have holes or insect damage in walls, foundation. New toliets and shower heads can increase water efficiency and are not that expensive. But if you don't care about an up to date kitchen other things then don't change them, it will not be worth it to you.

[Jeremy E.]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

The payoff here really depends on your local climate and the condition of the existing windows. My house has a bunch of old single-paned windows. If I replaced them all with the cheapest double-paned vinyl windows I could find at Home Depot and did all the work myself, I'd probably be looking at a $2,500 expense minimum. That's equivalent to about 6-8 years of my heating bills. Even if the new windows cut our heating needs in half (extremely unlikely), we're still looking at about 15 years for the energy savings to pay off the expense, by which time the cheapest vinyl windows money can buy will probably be in pretty sorry shape and need replacement. Install higher-quality, better-looking windows and the theoretical payoff date moves well past my life expectancy.

Did you check if your utility company would give you a rebate to upgrade them as well? Also, I don't agree that new windows will need replaced in 15 years. Also, it increases the value of your house.

[Jeremy E.]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

Yeah, I disagree too. I was in another thread on here recently in which several people came on and told someone in a 1920s home to keep all the original wood windows. They said, "Just fix them up and they will be as good as new and last another 100 years." They must have experience with totally different windows than are in my bungalow. Some of mine are so bad that they won't even open properly. And they will always be single pane. Storm windows help a bit but not nearly as well as new windows would. It's no coincidence that the coldest rooms in our house are the ones with the original windows (the previous home owners selectively replaced windows).

Back to the OP - I don't know what to advise, but I will tell you the number of people I have met who finally upgrade a few select things in their homes and say, "Now why didn't I do that sooner?"

I would look into what bugs you about your home. Come on, something has got to bug you. Is it the layout of your kitchen? The faucet in your bathroom? The lighting in your bedroom? Whatever that is, upgrade or fix that. And of course, anything that is causing water issues or foundation issues.

Replacement windows are one of the worst upgrades you can do from an energy perspective.



Single pane windows account for roughly ~20% of you energy loss. Lets say your heating bills are $300 with your old windows. Even if you new windows are 8x as efficient as your old windows, you are looking at a savings of $50/month (best case scenario) for 8 heating/cooling months a year. So $400 per year. You are looking at $500/window for decent 30-yr replacement windows. These numbers are terribly inflated as well as you will probably see an energy savings of $25 per month and your 30-yr windows will begin having broken seals at year 15.     

If your old windowed rooms are cold and drafty, you need to reglaze and weatherstrip your old windows. A storm window will help as well and the low-e storms are eligible for tax credits. 

There are a lot of blogs that advocate fixing your old windows, but these people can be dismissed as "old house nuts". A better source giving you a balanced view of new vs old windows is green building advisor:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/what-should-i-do-my-old-windows

If you are spending $500/window you're getting seriously ripped off, or have comical sized windows.

[seattlecyclone]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

The payoff here really depends on your local climate and the condition of the existing windows. My house has a bunch of old single-paned windows. If I replaced them all with the cheapest double-paned vinyl windows I could find at Home Depot and did all the work myself, I'd probably be looking at a $2,500 expense minimum. That's equivalent to about 6-8 years of my heating bills. Even if the new windows cut our heating needs in half (extremely unlikely), we're still looking at about 15 years for the energy savings to pay off the expense, by which time the cheapest vinyl windows money can buy will probably be in pretty sorry shape and need replacement. Install higher-quality, better-looking windows and the theoretical payoff date moves well past my life expectancy.

Did you check if your utility company would give you a rebate to upgrade them as well? Also, I don't agree that new windows will need replaced in 15 years. Also, it increases the value of your house.

Every utility rebate I've ever seen in my area has required that the work be done by an approved contractor. The rebate is never more than the labor cost would be. Good windows won't need to be replaced in 15 years; bargain basement vinyl windows might. I intend to remain in my house indefinitely, so arguments about doing something to increase the house's value aren't likely to hold much sway with me. If anything, upgrades to increase the home's value are a slight negative because they are likely to lead to higher property taxes.

[Bob W]

So yeah,  you should paint and recarpet.  Although if you plan on being there long I would consider prefinished hardwood installed yourself.

Most stuff is easy enough to DIY.   You could completely redo a bathroom for less than $800.

On the kitchen you can retile yourself for less than $2 a square foot.   You can buy Chinese box cabinets and assemble them yourself for less that $500 and then pay 1k-2K for custom tops.   Wait for a dent sale on a new fridge, DW,  oven.   

Windows,  yeah I don't know?   

But definitely have fun doing it your self.  No hurries and you learn a lot.

Time is on your side. 

[partgypsy]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

Yeah, I disagree too. I was in another thread on here recently in which several people came on and told someone in a 1920s home to keep all the original wood windows. They said, "Just fix them up and they will be as good as new and last another 100 years." They must have experience with totally different windows than are in my bungalow. Some of mine are so bad that they won't even open properly. And they will always be single pane. Storm windows help a bit but not nearly as well as new windows would. It's no coincidence that the coldest rooms in our house are the ones with the original windows (the previous home owners selectively replaced windows).

Back to the OP - I don't know what to advise, but I will tell you the number of people I have met who finally upgrade a few select things in their homes and say, "Now why didn't I do that sooner?"

I would look into what bugs you about your home. Come on, something has got to bug you. Is it the layout of your kitchen? The faucet in your bathroom? The lighting in your bedroom? Whatever that is, upgrade or fix that. And of course, anything that is causing water issues or foundation issues.

Replacement windows are one of the worst upgrades you can do from an energy perspective.



Single pane windows account for roughly ~20% of you energy loss. Lets say your heating bills are $300 with your old windows. Even if you new windows are 8x as efficient as your old windows, you are looking at a savings of $50/month (best case scenario) for 8 heating/cooling months a year. So $400 per year. You are looking at $500/window for decent 30-yr replacement windows. These numbers are terribly inflated as well as you will probably see an energy savings of $25 per month and your 30-yr windows will begin having broken seals at year 15.     

If your old windowed rooms are cold and drafty, you need to reglaze and weatherstrip your old windows. A storm window will help as well and the low-e storms are eligible for tax credits. 

There are a lot of blogs that advocate fixing your old windows, but these people can be dismissed as "old house nuts". A better source giving you a balanced view of new vs old windows is green building advisor:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/what-should-i-do-my-old-windows

If you are spending $500/window you're getting seriously ripped off, or have comical sized windows.

That's around what we spent, but for highest rated efficiency (vinyl) windows, materials and labor inclusive. It would be less expensive if you installed them yourself but you may not have as much availability to choose from. Most of our windows are 32 ? x 64 so not comically sized. ETA I see you are in England so what you have selection wise probably varies quite abit from what we have in the States as well as what they allow you to do to your house. But yes, main point is to keep up on maintenance, the upgrading is entirely optional. some upgrades will not necessarily pay back in terms of energy savings, etc but may pay off in increased comfort and enjoyability of home. Do it over time as you can afford.

[justajane]

Re windows, in my region, I would say a decent vinyl window runs between $200-$300 including installation. We just got a bid on our bathroom window, and it was $200. Yeah, I forgot about the terrible rattle of old windows during storms and windy weather. No one here is going to convince that my original windows are worth saving. They truly suck. Well, maybe someone who actually was able to transform them and keep them from sticking and rattling. But most people just link to a website and have no personal experience with crappy old windows with layers upon layers of paint (including lead) that are literally falling apart. 

Ours have the pulley system as well. They also get condensation on the inside. In the coldest of the window this condensation freezes.

I will, however, keep them out of the landfill. On our addition, we lost one external, original window. I put it on Craigslist for free, and I got 15 responses in one day. They are great for craft projects. 

[Kaspian]

Any thoughts?

Yes--don't take on big projects!  One thing at a time.  Clean the walls and paint a hallway.  4 months later, tile yourself a kitchen backsplash.  3 months later, spackle the holes and paint the kitchen.  Go on that way and you'll amazed at how much shit gets done over a few years.  Huge projects are a) Mentally depressing to think about and plan, b) Mentally depressing while they're happening, c) Difficult to keep momentum/finish, and d) Okay when they're finished.  When you do little projects over a much longer period (with breaks in between) they're sort of fun and you eventually will arrive at d) without all the stress.

[TVRodriguez]

There are a lot of blogs that advocate fixing your old windows, but these people can be dismissed as "old house nuts". A better source giving you a balanced view of new vs old windows is green building advisor:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/what-should-i-do-my-old-windows

Hey, thanks for this link!  I've considered replacing our windows several times but we could never bring ourselves to spend that much (we've been quoted anywhere from $5,000 to $50,000 for all the windows in the house--to upgrade to hurricane proof windows-we're in South Florida).  But this window film stuff is another idea.

[bacchi]

Re: old, wood, windows

You can also get interior inserts. The plexi/acrylic ones are expensive but can be done DIY.

[Sibley]

So, since everyone jumped on my post, I feel the urge to defend it.

If you have the original, old style, double hung single pane wooden windows that are still fairly solid, you can fix them up. Put up storm windows, paint to match the frames. And with proper maintenance, which is labor intensive, they will last quite well.

No, they will not be as air tight as modern vinyl windows that are in good condition. But, they will look a hell of a lot better since they're original to the house. And the vinyls don't last as long, as evidenced by the piece of crap vinyl windows that are in the townhouse I rent. They're max 15 years old, and they're actually leakier than the 80 year old wood double hung single pane windows + storms in my parent's house.

They may not be the best choice in every situation, but don't automatically throw them out.

[paddedhat]

So, since everyone jumped on my post, I feel the urge to defend it.

If you have the original, old style, double hung single pane wooden windows that are still fairly solid, you can fix them up. Put up storm windows, paint to match the frames. And with proper maintenance, which is labor intensive, they will last quite well.

No, they will not be as air tight as modern vinyl windows that are in good condition. But, they will look a hell of a lot better since they're original to the house. And the vinyls don't last as long, as evidenced by the piece of crap vinyl windows that are in the townhouse I rent. They're max 15 years old, and they're actually leakier than the 80 year old wood double hung single pane windows + storms in my parent's house.

They may not be the best choice in every situation, but don't automatically throw them out.

X2   As I stated on another thread, the family homestead is 100 Y.O this year. My mom was falling for the "you MUST replace the windows" idea. I had new, custom made, custom color, triple track storms made, and did some painting and hardware repair to the large, double hung units. They now function well, the storms are extremely efficient, and the house maintains it's lovely character. A round of vinyl "replacements" (which in reality should be called vinyl "inserts" ) wouldn't last a 1/4 as long as the originals have, and they would of totally trashed the esthetics of a beautiful, all brick, four square.

OTOH, if original windows are too far gone, there is no sense in plaguing yourself, trying to polish a turd. Unfortunately for most folks, they automatically default to slapping vinyl inserts on the existing frames. There are other options, including new sashes, or  new wooden windows that actually look decent.

[Fishindude]

if you don't keep up with upgrades, repairs and basic improvements it will cost you much more in the long run.
i would recommend budgeting $XXXX annually and start working your way through these improvements.

[The_path_less_taken]

I'd ask the family friend for suggestions on the kitchen rehab: free labor and advice from a pro is invaluable.

If the gutters work I probably wouldn't care...if they function, they'd be fine for me.

But I am with the people who say the ancient carpet could be a health issue: the amount of dust mites and allergens that a carpet 'inherits' is frightening. It's nice to walk barefoot in the winter on a carpet but...I only have it in the bedroom and hall....and I regret having it in the hall.

Not sure if they have Peachtree brand windows over there but I truly hate mine and regret buying them....so shop around a lot prior to buying windows. I have been in homes with hundred year old wooden windows...if they've been maintained they are ok, although storm windows over them will result in lower utility bills.

Bottom line: it's your house. If resale isn't an issue and YOU are happy with it and it isn't something that is a basic functionality issue (leaky roof) then it's fine.

[reader2580]

It cost me $5,000 to $6,000 to redo my kitchen completely with the exception of keeping the counter tops and sink.  Cabinets had been damaged by water leaks and had missing drawers and doors.  I bought Chinese cabinets that cost about $2500.  $1000 plus tax for dented stainless fridge and $1000 plus tax for closeout gas/electric stainless range.  (I spent extra for the gas and electric range.)  I found an open box over range microwave for 50% and it was brand new except box.  I guess around $500 for vinyl floor.  I did everything with friends and family except the floor.  I did have a carpenter who charged me $50 to help get me started on installing the cabinets.

The cabinet replacement was a last minute decision so I didn't have time (or money frankly) to order new counter tops.  Total time taken was two weeks from start to finish working evenings and weekends.  (I was staying with parents during renovation.)

[partgypsy]

So, since everyone jumped on my post, I feel the urge to defend it.

If you have the original, old style, double hung single pane wooden windows that are still fairly solid, you can fix them up. Put up storm windows, paint to match the frames. And with proper maintenance, which is labor intensive, they will last quite well.

No, they will not be as air tight as modern vinyl windows that are in good condition. But, they will look a hell of a lot better since they're original to the house. And the vinyls don't last as long, as evidenced by the piece of crap vinyl windows that are in the townhouse I rent. They're max 15 years old, and they're actually leakier than the 80 year old wood double hung single pane windows + storms in my parent's house.

They may not be the best choice in every situation, but don't automatically throw them out.

X2   As I stated on another thread, the family homestead is 100 Y.O this year. My mom was falling for the "you MUST replace the windows" idea. I had new, custom made, custom color, triple track storms made, and did some painting and hardware repair to the large, double hung units. They now function well, the storms are extremely efficient, and the house maintains it's lovely character. A round of vinyl "replacements" (which in reality should be called vinyl "inserts" ) wouldn't last a 1/4 as long as the originals have, and they would of totally trashed the esthetics of a beautiful, all brick, four square.

OTOH, if original windows are too far gone, there is no sense in plaguing yourself, trying to polish a turd. Unfortunately for most folks, they automatically default to slapping vinyl inserts on the existing frames. There are other options, including new sashes, or  new wooden windows that actually look decent.

I think it is awesome when people can save old windows and keep things out of landfill. I don't think people who decide to replace wood windows with vinyl replacements should be demonized or assume they didn't consider all options before making their decision.

[paddedhat]

I think it is awesome when people can save old windows and keep things out of landfill. I don't think people who decide to replace wood windows with vinyl replacements should be demonized or assume they didn't consider all options before making their decision.

"Demonized" is a bit dramatic. If you are of a mind that it's perfectly acceptable to trash a beautiful house by slapping low grade vinyl inserts into the openings, while keeping the original frames and woodwork, I would have to disagree.  OTOH, here in the northeast, there are millions of older homes that are nothing special, and replacements are a cheap, easy solution to the problem. As for "assuming they didn't consider all options", well, as a builder/remodeler who had a long career, I can assure you that most folks are pretty brainwashed on this issue.  Calling a few contractors for bids to tear out all the sashes, and fit vinyl replacements in the holes, is pretty much the default method of dealing with window issues in this market.

[Asgard01]

I had to reply back to this thread I started with an update :). I didn't see most of the the replies to this but it's quite funny because during December I had my guttering reported by neighbours as leaking. I could see it was quite bad so I decided to pay for new guttering all round the house and as I was getting this done, I had my fascias done as these were very aged. I also had roof work done (some replacement tiles, chimney and ridge tiles repointed...

I then this week have had my windows and doors/patio all done with A rated Windows, double glazed etc... Now next Monday to finish it off I am having a new garage door and the rendering repainted and patched up at the front. I am also forgetting that I had water leaking into kitchen and garage which turned out to be my flashing as the cause. I have had my lead flashing replaced as well so my house externally looks pretty much brand new. I must say after spending $12,000+ On all of this that I have absolutely zero regrets. I feel like what I have done could last me well in excess of 20 years and it feels great every time I pull on my drive to see it all.

Based on my original post, I can't believe that I have spent so much money :D. No regrets at all however, to me it's another kind of investment.

Chris

[mm1970]

Re the windows - if you have the old style wood windows that with proper maintenance last forever, don't replace them, just fix them up. If not, disregard.

For the rest - there's a difference between doing upgrades that are for property value/curb appeal vs. maintenance or comfort. If you're delaying maintenance or needed repairs, then you will pay for it in the end. That's called cheep, not frugal. If there's things you could get done that would improve your comfort (the big one there is the carpet, at least for me), then go for it.

I disagree, I think if you have single pane windows, you must upgrade to double pane gas filled windows, much more efficient and your utility company might give you a rebate.

Yeah, I disagree too. I was in another thread on here recently in which several people came on and told someone in a 1920s home to keep all the original wood windows. They said, "Just fix them up and they will be as good as new and last another 100 years." They must have experience with totally different windows than are in my bungalow. Some of mine are so bad that they won't even open properly. And they will always be single pane. Storm windows help a bit but not nearly as well as new windows would. It's no coincidence that the coldest rooms in our house are the ones with the original windows (the previous home owners selectively replaced windows).

Back to the OP - I don't know what to advise, but I will tell you the number of people I have met who finally upgrade a few select things in their homes and say, "Now why didn't I do that sooner?"

I would look into what bugs you about your home. Come on, something has got to bug you. Is it the layout of your kitchen? The faucet in your bathroom? The lighting in your bedroom? Whatever that is, upgrade or fix that. And of course, anything that is causing water issues or foundation issues.

Replacement windows are one of the worst upgrades you can do from an energy perspective.



Single pane windows account for roughly ~20% of you energy loss. Lets say your heating bills are $300 with your old windows. Even if you new windows are 8x as efficient as your old windows, you are looking at a savings of $50/month (best case scenario) for 8 heating/cooling months a year. So $400 per year. You are looking at $500/window for decent 30-yr replacement windows. These numbers are terribly inflated as well as you will probably see an energy savings of $25 per month and your 30-yr windows will begin having broken seals at year 15.     

If your old windowed rooms are cold and drafty, you need to reglaze and weatherstrip your old windows. A storm window will help as well and the low-e storms are eligible for tax credits. 

There are a lot of blogs that advocate fixing your old windows, but these people can be dismissed as "old house nuts". A better source giving you a balanced view of new vs old windows is green building advisor:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/what-should-i-do-my-old-windows

Made a  huge difference in the warmth of our house, the condensation problem, and the noise.

Didn't really change the energy bill, but we live in So Cal.

[Bertram]

My advice for both homes and cars is:

- If you enjoy working on them, then get ones that allow you to work on them, do some side projects, and when you're ready to move on you may have even increased the value of the object a bit as a side-effect

- If you do not enjoy working on them, get one that you're comfortable with as it is. You're going to have to do regular maintenance on it anyway, and that's enough "work" for someone who doesn't enjoy it.

Yes, there's always stories of people that flip cars and houses and earn money doing so, and that love to work on them and specifically take on "projects", because if you are willing to invest the labour it's cheaper that way. But that's simply not for everyone. Know who you are and what you like, and don't take on projects that may make you miserable.

And fancy vanity upgrades that do not relate to the value are luxuries that you should approach like all other spending/expenses in life, not like investments. Keep in mind that interns of true cost however that after 10 years that luxury watch for 40K might have lost less money than that 40K kitchen remodeling - something to keep in mind when you decide what it is you like more.