Author Topic: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing  (Read 32728 times)

RunHappy

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Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« on: June 03, 2015, 07:18:38 AM »
So for the first time in several years my SO and I have a dishwasher.  At first it was great.  We had a lot of kitchen stuff in storage so we used it day and night as we unpacked and put away.

Now that we have everything unpacked and are just washing what we use, I'm wondering if it is more expensive (and a pain) to use versus hand washing dishes.

The dishwashing detergent is more expensive and seems to run out quicker (every 40-60 loads or 2-3 months).  We are also having random issues where the soap cup sometimes won't even open during the wash or there is soap residue is left on the dishes.  I told a friend about it and she said to buy an additive, these additives can cost $4-6 and only last about a month (I haven't tried them only priced).  So now I have buy more expensive dishwashing liquid plus and additive to use the dishwasher when a bottle of $4.99 Dawn liquid soap (not on sale) usually lasts 6-8 months.

Has anyone done a cost analysis about using a dishwasher vs hand washing?  Right now I've gone back to hand washing and am just using the dishwasher as a huge drying rack.

Gimesalot

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2015, 07:38:27 AM »
I know that dishwashers use less water than washing dishes by hand.  I am not sure about the costs though.

To save a bit, use vinegar instead of additive.  It should keep your dishes spot free.

smoghat

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2015, 07:40:57 AM »
If retirement is about getting time to yourself, the last thing I want is to waste part of my life doing dishes. We bought a dishwasher years ago and never looked back.

The first trick, told to me by a representative from Miele itself (among the most expensive dishwashers, but it's the quietest and our dishwasher is not far from the TV and stereo!) is to use HALF the amount of detergent recommended. More that that is not necessary. That, in itself, will reduce the amount of rinse aid you need. As far as rinse aid goes, it's just a surfactant. You can try to use vinegar, although the smell bugs me, and there are other surfactants that you could try.

I'm sure you could DIY it. http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2012/05/10-things-you-should-know-before-making-homemade-dishwasher-detergent.html

Now that you that you have the thing, you might as well use it. It uses less water and it saves you time. If it's a half hour a day of washing, then that's a 15 hour a month job that you just quit, or over the course of a year, it's a whole month of work you were forced to do. 

Chris22

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2015, 07:48:56 AM »
If retirement is about getting time to yourself, the last thing I want is to waste part of my life doing dishes. We bought a dishwasher years ago and never looked back.

The first trick, told to me by a representative from Miele itself (among the most expensive dishwashers, but it's the quietest and our dishwasher is not far from the TV and stereo!) is to use HALF the amount of detergent recommended. More that that is not necessary. That, in itself, will reduce the amount of rinse aid you need. As far as rinse aid goes, it's just a surfactant. You can try to use vinegar, although the smell bugs me, and there are other surfactants that you could try.

I'm sure you could DIY it. http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2012/05/10-things-you-should-know-before-making-homemade-dishwasher-detergent.html

Now that you that you have the thing, you might as well use it. It uses less water and it saves you time. If it's a half hour a day of washing, then that's a 15 hour a month job that you just quit, or over the course of a year, it's a whole month of work you were forced to do.

365 * .5 = 182.5 hrs / 24 hrs/day = 7.6 days, or a week, not a month.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2015, 07:51:07 AM »
When I remodeled this house after I bought it, the contractor looked at me like I was from Mars when I told him the only thing I did with the last dish washer was store paper towels and kitchen items inside of it. He sputtered, "Um, resale value?"

"I intend to die here, so the new people can put one in for all I care."

Your mileage may vary, but I've never seen one get dishes as clean as hand washing. Even a Miele, which a friend has. I'm on a well: extra water doesn't bother me.

During the worst CA drought (to date) my Uncle Pete would have two sinks half full of water and wash in one and rinse in the other one...I doubt that's more water than the machine would use.

As  a kid, it seemed like more work to me...but we would pre rinse, then have to stack them so carefully to optimize the water jets, then unload the dishwasher...

If there were a ton of people in the house, or the kind that had to have a glass of water every two hours with a separate glass...maybe.

Otherwise I think hand washing is cheaper/better.


MustacheNY

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2015, 07:53:36 AM »
A few scientific studies have been done showing that a dishwasher is in fact more efficient not only from a water usage perspective, but also from an energy consumption perspective.  When you factor in the additional time that it frees up to spend time with the family, or do other more enjoyable tasks, it has always been an easy decision for me to utilize the dishwasher.  Here is an interesting article that goes into some of the considerations in analyzing this, with some ranges of numbers and a brief hypothetical analysis included.

http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html


Philociraptor

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2015, 07:59:52 AM »
If retirement is about getting time to yourself, the last thing I want is to waste part of my life doing dishes. We bought a dishwasher years ago and never looked back.

The first trick, told to me by a representative from Miele itself (among the most expensive dishwashers, but it's the quietest and our dishwasher is not far from the TV and stereo!) is to use HALF the amount of detergent recommended. More that that is not necessary. That, in itself, will reduce the amount of rinse aid you need. As far as rinse aid goes, it's just a surfactant. You can try to use vinegar, although the smell bugs me, and there are other surfactants that you could try.

I'm sure you could DIY it. http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2012/05/10-things-you-should-know-before-making-homemade-dishwasher-detergent.html

Now that you that you have the thing, you might as well use it. It uses less water and it saves you time. If it's a half hour a day of washing, then that's a 15 hour a month job that you just quit, or over the course of a year, it's a whole month of work you were forced to do.

365 * .5 = 182.5 hrs / 24 hrs/day = 7.6 days, or a week, not a month.

I think they did 182.5 hrs / 8.5 hrs/workday = 21.5 workdays, approximately the amount of workdays in a month.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2015, 08:01:20 AM »
This is a slightly different perspective.  I also came late to the concept of a dishwasher and I find that I love it.  I don't pretend that I have done the cost comparison to hand washing but I find myself much more inspired to cook knowing that the hour of cleanup has been reduced to 10 minutes of wiping dirty surfaces and loading the dishwasher.  One trip to a restaurant will pay for a lot of soap and hot water.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2015, 08:04:14 AM »
As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

Chris22

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2015, 08:08:18 AM »
As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

I don't mind wiping things down and getting the food gunk off and all, but sterilizing glasses and silverware, etc, is a big PITA.  Rather just rinse and toss into the dishwasher. 

Personally, my feeling is if you're squeezing pennies hard enough to worry about the minute cost of dishwasher versus handwashing, you've lost the plot and perspective.  It's about enjoying life more, not obsessing over details.  That's much more of a drag.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2015, 08:11:02 AM »

As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

Personally, my feeling is if you're squeezing pennies hard enough to worry about the minute cost of dishwasher versus handwashing, you've lost the plot and perspective.  It's about enjoying life more, not obsessing over details.  That's much more of a drag.

Obsessing over details and not enjoying life seems to be the opposite of what that quote says.

It sounds like he very much enjoys doing dishes.
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Chris22

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2015, 08:16:45 AM »

As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

Personally, my feeling is if you're squeezing pennies hard enough to worry about the minute cost of dishwasher versus handwashing, you've lost the plot and perspective.  It's about enjoying life more, not obsessing over details.  That's much more of a drag.

Obsessing over details and not enjoying life seems to be the opposite of what that quote says.

It sounds like he very much enjoys doing dishes.

Two separate thoughts.  First one was directed at the poster I was responding to.  Second was directed at the OP/overall thread.

RunHappy

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2015, 08:28:46 AM »
I guess after years of hand washing I felt like I had a pretty good system down, empty the drainboard in the morning while I wait for my coffee to brew (I stopped using the brew timer when the drainboard never got emptied), then as I use a dish during the day, I would soap it, rinse it, then drainboard it.  The only "big" load to wash was after the evening meal.

I was just wondering if having a dishwasher was really that cost effective. With this dishwaser you have to rinse the dishes pretty well before going in it so how much more time is it to just add a little soap to the sponge?  I like the idea of using to sanitize future baby bottles, but it just seems like an unnecessary expense outside of that..

I bookmarked the treehugger article to read later.

Beaker

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2015, 08:30:07 AM »
A few scientific studies have been done showing that a dishwasher is in fact more efficient not only from a water usage perspective, but also from an energy consumption perspective.  When you factor in the additional time that it frees up to spend time with the family, or do other more enjoyable tasks, it has always been an easy decision for me to utilize the dishwasher.  Here is an interesting article that goes into some of the considerations in analyzing this, with some ranges of numbers and a brief hypothetical analysis included.

http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

I've actually looked into this some, and as far as I can find there has only been one study done - the University of Bonn study linked from that Treehugger article. Every other article I've ever found referenced that single study. It's not a bad study, but it has some caveats. Prepare for the Wall of Text.

The study is based on cleaning 12 place settings. This is perfect for a dishwasher, as plates, glasses & silverware tend to fit very well. But unless you just served carryout to 12 people, it's an incomplete picture. Where are the pots, pans, cutting boards, mixing bowls, chef's knives, and collanders that were used to prepare that meal? If you cook your own food those items need to be washed too, but they usually don't fit well in a dishwasher. You might need to run the dishwasher time (or two or three!) to clean those items, while they might be very easy to clean by hand. (As an aside, some items such as sharp knives and wooden items can be damaged by a dishwasher. Clearly destroying a tool is inefficient, so they should be handwashed in any case.)

Second, they used a random sampling of people to do the handwashing. It's a reasonable choice, but some of the people were terribly inefficient. For example, many of the people used 40-60 litres of water, but one person managed to use 447 litres! He/she literally left the hot water running full speed during the entire washing and drying process. So while the numbers may represent a population average, it seems obvious that even a modest attempt at efficiency could do much better. (Another aside: many of the people managed to not even clean the dishes well enough that they would be willing to use them. Clearly these were not skilled practitioners of the dishwashing arts!)

That said, I think there's an interesting point to be made about the minimum values observed. The minimum water used for hand washing was 20-30 litres. The dishwashers averaged 15 litres of water. So in the specific case of loads that can be densely packed in the dishwasher, it is probably more efficient to use the dishwasher than to hand wash. In the case of large or irregular items, I think the jury is still out.

My personal procedure is to put all the plates, bowls, glasses and silverware in the dishwasher. Everything else gets handwashed. I can't prove that this is the most efficient approach, but it seems at least competitive.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2015, 08:54:50 AM »
I wash by hand currently. I'd like to install a foot pedal to assist with turning the water on/off while my hands are busy w/ the scrubbing but I'm in an apartment.

I find hand washing to be very enjoyable. There is something soothing with the ritual of it, almost meditative.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2015, 09:15:00 AM »
I second the observation that half the recommended detergent is about right for dishwashers.

I also think they are more efficient unless you are really, really obsessive about conservation and your hand-washing system.

For me, one important factor is whether the dishes get clean, and not wasting resources in doing so.  When my SO hand-washes the dishes, I end up needing to rewash many of them - a double waste.  I like the dishwasher.

Bob W

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2015, 09:44:09 AM »
Hand washing wins IMHO.   I almost always have pots, big pans,  Tupperware, etc..   I have to hand wash those anyway.  It takes what -- 5 seconds to wash a dish in the soap water I have for the pans?    My wife would disagree and likes to load and unload after essentially washing the dishes first.   Her's always come out scummy and mine are clean and clear.

Another option is paper plates.   Use the weaved plate holder deals.   The cost is like 1 cent per plate.   If we have a lot of people over (37 at Xmas), we splurge on the expensive paper plates.   Bam, bam they go in the trash -  dishes done!

I think I have lived in houses without dishwashers for a total of 20 years at this point but currently have one.

Now let's talk garbage disposals. 

 Remodeling our kitchen wife says in front of Home Depot worker in the garbage disposal isle "we need a garbage disposal."   I say "we're on a septic system and we shouldn't  be flushing stuff down the drain."  Home Depot guy looks at me with a cautioned look and then agrees "yeah,  if you have a septic, you probably don't want a garbage disposal."   Chalk one up for hubby!

Never got the concept of GD.  So much easier to strain and compost.  Plus they are super nasty.  That and even if you are on a city sewer system,  why would you want to flush a bunch of vegetable matter down to your already overworked treatment system?

And on to oil and grease -- never ever, ever pour into your sink.  Always either reuse, use for another purpose (fire starter), feed to wildlife or trash --- but never down the drain.  Imagine the work a septic or treatment facility has to do to remove 1 cup of oil from water.   

Hotstreak

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2015, 10:34:22 AM »
I use the machine for things that fit well: plates, bowls, silverware, Tupperware (top rack only). 

Then I hand wash odd or bulky items, and anything that I'm worried about being damaged by the dishwasher: food prep knives, wood cutting boards, large bowls, delicate glass.

I think the dishwasher saves time, and it's cheap enough to use that I don't worry about it.  I also have huge hands so I have trouble scrubbing down in to glasses.  If I get a brush with a scrubbing head somebody ends up using it on a scrambled egg pan or charred roasting pan, and that's done for!

AJ

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2015, 10:47:31 AM »
Now that we have everything unpacked and are just washing what we use, I'm wondering if it is more expensive (and a pain) to use versus hand washing dishes.

If it's just the two of you, you may be right. When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run - which means the food is either crusting onto the dishes or we had to pre-rinse them, which rather defeats the purpose and any water savings.

If you do use it, I have had good luck with homemade dishwasher soap (mostly baking soda and salt), and definitely use vinegar rather than jetdry (I've never noticed any lingering smell).

Chris22

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2015, 11:46:21 AM »
If it's just the two of you, you may be right. When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run - which means the food is either crusting onto the dishes or we had to pre-rinse them, which rather defeats the purpose and any water savings.

Disagree.  I prerinse all my stuff before putting it in, and it's usually just a splash of water to remove food stuffs, or maybe a quick wipe with a spong.  The process for handwashing is wipe away foodstuffs, then apply soap, wipe again, then rinse off soap, then dry.  So basically prerinsing is only 25-33% of the time/effort of handwashing IMO.

snogirl

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2015, 12:09:04 PM »
I wash my own dishes. It takes anywhere from 60 seconds to a couple of minutes.
My dishwasher isn't even hooked up but looks oh so pretty shined up like a diamond under the kitchen counter.
Another household might need one but it is only me most of the time.
Whatever you want to do go for it.

Bob W

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2015, 03:50:29 PM »
If it's just the two of you, you may be right. When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run - which means the food is either crusting onto the dishes or we had to pre-rinse them, which rather defeats the purpose and any water savings.

Disagree.  I prerinse all my stuff before putting it in, and it's usually just a splash of water to remove food stuffs, or maybe a quick wipe with a spong.  The process for handwashing is wipe away foodstuffs, then apply soap, wipe again, then rinse off soap, then dry.  So basically prerinsing is only 25-33% of the time/effort of handwashing IMO.

I air dry and rarely dry and reshelf.   So in the morning the dish is right where I left it, nice and dry and I never open the cabinet.

Compare that to the automatic dishwasher guy ----  Rinse with sponge (shit that is basically washing already),  open DW,  bend over,  place in DW,  repeat this bend over process several times. (at least as long as just standing straight up and actually washing dishes.)    Then run the noisy ass thing.   Then open it bend,  bend,  bend to unload and shelve (because you can't leave the clean with the dirty and you don't want 10 dishes and 5 bowls and 10 glasses on your counter.   Freaking dishwashers are a lot of work that requires lots of bending, reaching and walking across the room. 

Could someone please do a biometric and actual time study on this?   One would think that with all that bending that there would be a propensity for injury?  Especially with the twisting motion typically used.     

Chris22

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2015, 03:58:07 PM »
If you have to walk across the room to unload your dishwasher, someone planned your kitchen layout very, very poorly.  My plates, cups and bowls are stored in the cabinets right above the dishwasher.

RunHappy

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2015, 04:02:48 PM »
Maybe I'll do a timed experiment on this.  Of course that would mean leaving dirty dishes in the sink until the end of the day (to be consistent), but that would only drive me crazy for a week or so.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2015, 04:08:37 PM »
When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run

This seems impossible unless you weren't cooking at home, which I think a majority of us do.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2015, 04:15:00 PM »
When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run

This seems impossible unless you weren't cooking at home, which I think a majority of us do.

Really? We make a batch of rice and beans or soup at the beginning of the week (2 pots, in the bottom of dishwasher) and it lasts a few days. Then 2 glasses, 2 plates, and 2 forks each night. Breakfast and lunch at work, so 4 small tupperware containers. It takes days before there is enough buildup to run a full load. Where are all these dishes coming from?

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2015, 04:19:18 PM »
As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

+1 - While I don't love doing dishes I don't mind it at all. It's just part of my day.

We had a dishwasher for about a year in the house I bought. The GF used it and I did dishes by hand. When the dishwasher broke I refused to buy a new one. She's my tenant and doesn't want to buy a dishwasher so we are at a stand off.

I just don't see the point of a machine doing my dishes.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2015, 04:35:37 PM »
I just did a bunch of dishes. By hand.

What struck me most was...and granted, it's just me at the moment so a hectic household wouldn't be on the same page: it's gotta be cheaper, for one person.

I had a bagel for dinner: a small salad plate with no grease/cream cheese or whatever on it...a swipe and a rinse. I had grapes for dessert: swiped edge of bowl with soapy sponge, rinsed. Yogurt/cereal blueberries for breakfast: one bowl. One spoon.

And a tea cup, which I honestly only like to wash once a week.

I'd have to buy more dishes if I was going to 'fill' a dishwasher....and things would start to smell before it was frugally time to run it.

If you A) know what the dish held, you know if it needs the whole song and dance or just a quickie.
and if B) you're not eating a ton of greasy things, I think hand washing will win out.

Agree with all the people who said delicate/bulky/expensive things don't go in anyway. And agree that the loading/unloading seemed more time consuming to me than just doing them.

YMMV

dudde_devaru

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2015, 05:04:44 PM »
I usually do the dishes while the misses does the awesome cooking. We will have close to 30-35 items in the sink which I hand wash carefully while watching "MMM" videos (from past one week), Some 'training' videos in YouTube runs to 1hr! Also some might car mods, top gear and wheeler dealer :D
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 05:35:17 PM by dudde_devaru »

Bob W

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2015, 05:19:18 PM »
Sure you can multitask while hand washing.   Just did a personal test.   Hand washing won over rinse load shelve on a time factor.   The bending and reaching sucked too.   I'm beginning to think the whole dishwasher thing has been one of the greatest marketing things of all time.    Kinda like lather, rinse, repeat was for shampoo marketers.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2015, 05:25:35 PM »
I kind of put dishwasher down in the category of marital aid...

That being said, it really is only efficient if you are running full loads. We have a household of two (and a baby who doesn't use dishes), we run it about two times a week. I find it mainly helpful for the multiple tupperware containers I take my lunches in, as I don't want to deal with washing those every day.

This does mean we have a big stock pile of plates, utensils and containers built up to use while we wait for the dishwasher to fill up, but those have been built up over time, are relatively inexpensive, and quite helpful when entertaining anyways.

I use much less detergent than there is room for, probably 1/4 to 1/2, and unless there is gunky food stuck on, I don't rinse the dishes. I think our dishwasher manual says pre-rinsing is not needed. (We rinse into a bucket of water I save and then throw on the compost pile).

We do hand-wash most pots and pans, cutting boards, and cooking knives (I'd worry about those getting dull in the dishwasher, and it seems like a safety hazard). So we save the dishwasher for plates, pots and utensils we eat with daily, and containers I take lunch in. We still get plenty of use out of it.

Also, I definitely turn off the heated dry option to save energy. When I run it over-night, I never have a problem with wet dishes in the morning.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 05:44:34 PM by CanuckExpat »

zoltani

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2015, 05:35:38 PM »
If you have a newer dishwasher and are rinsing your plates before loading them STOP! Newer dishwashers and detergents are designed to work on plates with dried on crap. I have tested this many time, from dried up peanut butter to egg yolk. Try it!

Gentleman X

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2015, 06:56:45 PM »
I wash a dish immediately after using it, then put it in the dishwasher to dry. Spouse washes dishes while I cook (and vice versa), and after dinner we each wash our stuff by hand and put it in the dishwasher to dry. I skip it ahead to the "heat dry" setting on occasion.

I'm with the gentleman up there who uses his morning coffee brew time to put dishes away.

Outlier

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2015, 07:59:56 PM »
I grew up in a family of 5 hand washing the dishes after dinner every night. My wife thought I was nuts when we bought our house and when she pointed out that it had no dish washer I just shrugged. It takes me about 20 minutes to wash the dishes, dry them and put them away.

It's the time of day when I listen to podcasts so I really kind of enjoy it.

We have a portable dish washer now but I don't use it. It's loud and it takes a long time to run compared to just hand washing. My wife likes to use it when we have friends over and she cooks for multiple people though.

At the end of the day I guess it's not really important how you get the dishes clean. As long as you have a clean plate the next time you want a sandwich it's probably all the same.

letired

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2015, 08:32:51 PM »
I'm in the pro-dishwasher camp. I grew up with a dishwasher, and while I complained about emptying it as a kid, I find it far preferable to handwashing. I guess I just have a thing about gross dishes. If you have crap that doesn't get cleaned off during the dishwasher cycle/you have to prerinse, you either have a seriously crappy dishwasher or seriously overloaded it. And I can never get the tiny grooves in my snap locking glass tupperware as clean handwashing as with a dish washer without spending forever with a little scrubbie brush instead of the regular sponge.

I think it comes down to how hectic your life is, how much you enjoy (or don't) hand washing dishes, and how well your dishwasher works. As previously discussed, it's probably a wash in the water and electricity department. I really hate handwashing dishes.

Bob W

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2015, 08:48:35 PM »
If you have a newer dishwasher and are rinsing your plates before loading them STOP! Newer dishwashers and detergents are designed to work on plates with dried on crap. I have tested this many time, from dried up peanut butter to egg yolk. Try it!
brand and model please?  My wife wants that.

Caoineag

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2015, 09:17:46 PM »
...brand and model please?  My wife wants that.

Kenmore Ultra Wash HE in this household. You better believe we don't pre rinse anything.

2 people and we load it full daily. You all must be very efficient batch cookers to go longer because we still eat out on a regular basis as well. Course, I also had a coworker call me a foodie the other day and I am known at work as a cook so lunch is definitely not just one container...

forummm

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2015, 09:29:48 PM »
I think the dishes get cleaner in a dishwasher and I don't want the grease and stuff on my hands. I'm willing to pay whatever small cost the dishwasher requires. There's too much bacteria in the kitchen for me not to think about it.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2015, 10:33:54 PM »
I really don't think it is an either-or situation, and the MMM model emphasizes flexibility and the use of common sense in making the most of resources...so of course if you just had a bagel or piece of toast, you may not even need to rinse a plate, just wipe it off and put it in the rack. Or, if something clearly won't fit well in the dishwasher, or won't get clean without some elbow grease, then do it by hand.  For plates that fit well and get cleaned well, and for glass and silverware, it could be more efficient to load them up and let a good dishwasher with a modest amount of detergent to do what it was designed to do.

I do handwash a lot of items, and use the dishwasher on a regular basis.

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2015, 06:44:01 AM »
I grew up without a dishwasher, and now that I have the option, I'd much rather work an extra year if that's what it takes to afford a good edishwasher. It isn't, of course, because we installed a high-efficiency one that uses 1.6 gallons of water per load and minimal electricity. The "Eco" setting gets everything clean without rinsing, and the store brand rinse aid that keeps film from forming costs $1 at Dollar General and last three months.


We scrape anything large enough to qualify as "dog food" into the dogs' food and then load without rinsing. No problems. I avoid owning any utensils that don't go in the dishwasher, and I have never had a problem with pots and pans getting clean, though occasionally I'll have to scrub the crock pot a bit more with a plastic scrubbie if I've let something burn onto it.


But that's all. Only dishes I clean are the crock on rare occasions and my cast iron. This makes for a much happier life.

TheFrugalFox

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2015, 07:57:51 AM »
I do all the dishes (and most of the cooking) for us - just the two of us. I wash every second morning - no need to wash every day for us. I kind of weirdly enjoy it - not sure why.

Bob W

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2015, 09:13:47 AM »
I grew up without a dishwasher, and now that I have the option, I'd much rather work an extra year if that's what it takes to afford a good edishwasher. It isn't, of course, because we installed a high-efficiency one that uses 1.6 gallons of water per load and minimal electricity. The "Eco" setting gets everything clean without rinsing, and the store brand rinse aid that keeps film from forming costs $1 at Dollar General and last three months.


We scrape anything large enough to qualify as "dog food" into the dogs' food and then load without rinsing. No problems. I avoid owning any utensils that don't go in the dishwasher, and I have never had a problem with pots and pans getting clean, though occasionally I'll have to scrub the crock pot a bit more with a plastic scrubbie if I've let something burn onto it.

I don't understand?  How do you fit a large pot,  a fry pan and a suate pan in your Dishwasher while at the same time fitting in dishes.   My fry pan takes up the entire lower self and the pot won't even fit. 

I wonder if people here are even talking about the same thing I have?    Ours is about 36 inches across (exterior) and maybe 30 inches top to bottom with two racks and a utensil thingy on the side.   

Plastic storage containers?   Forget it -- the dry cycle assures warping.

Do folks here have bigger units?   Is there something I'm missing?    If I had to do pots and pans in the DW I would need to do two loads?   

I am comfortable leaving dishes and pans in our large sink to soak overnight or longer.   The wife freaks out and must put them in the DW immediately.   I get that,  but I don't get how to put pots and pans and dishes in same unit at same time?



Bob W

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2015, 10:25:28 AM »
I think the dishes get cleaner in a dishwasher and I don't want the grease and stuff on my hands. I'm willing to pay whatever small cost the dishwasher requires. There's too much bacteria in the kitchen for me not to think about it.

Hand sanitizer and latex gloves.

zoltani

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2015, 10:43:42 AM »
If you have a newer dishwasher and are rinsing your plates before loading them STOP! Newer dishwashers and detergents are designed to work on plates with dried on crap. I have tested this many time, from dried up peanut butter to egg yolk. Try it!
brand and model please?  My wife wants that.

Bosch 500 series with 3rd rack

Someone mentioned expensive dish detergent. Yeah, it is, if you buy at the grocery store. This is what i use:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GLXKDPC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687762&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000P9SRHE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1SDZGXHJTSTHPV2H581V

90 count for about $13
Lasts me about a year

sunday

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2015, 10:59:22 AM »
^^^ That Finish powerball tab stuff is the best. 110 pack at Costco for around $14.

Also, we have an older dishwasher we don't quite want to get rid of yet, but it has an antiquated dry cycle that make it smell like something is burning, so we don't use it. Just let it air dry on the rack and humidify the house a little bit.
 

CanuckExpat

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2015, 12:43:53 PM »
we installed a high-efficiency one that uses 1.6 gallons of water per load and minimal electricity. The "Eco" setting gets everything clean without rinsing

Wow I never realized they were this efficient, that's less water than flushing many toilets a single time.
What brand and model out of curiosity?

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2015, 03:11:18 PM »
I rinse off the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher because it takes us a few days to fill it and I don't want food sitting in there for that time. We have a Bosch to save on water, but I have never had a dishwasher that does as good of job as hand wash and rinse- so I hand wash wine glasses and such.

The main reason we use the dishwasher is to let the heat/dry cycle disinfect everything before it goes back in the cabinet.

zoltani

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2015, 04:09:52 PM »
For all the "hand washing gets things cleaner" folks a little anecdote.

When we first got our bosch i ran a white coffee mug through that had what I thought were permanent coffee/tea stains on the bottom. No matter how much I hand washed those stains were still there. One run through the bosch and it was sparkling white. It washed off YEARS of coffee/tea stains. Noticed this on a few other pieces of dishware. Maybe I just suck and hand washing, but I don't think so.

vern

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2015, 10:26:54 PM »
My house came with a dishwasher when I bought it 19 years ago.

We've never used it.

FIRE me

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Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2015, 11:02:39 PM »

Otherwise I think hand washing is cheaper/better.

Same here. I don't have one and I don't want one. Last dishwasher I had was 20 years ago. With the pre-rinse, loading, unloading, and inferior results compared to a careful hand wash, I don't think they are worth it.