The Money Mustache Community

General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: RunHappy on June 03, 2015, 07:18:38 AM

Title: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: RunHappy on June 03, 2015, 07:18:38 AM
So for the first time in several years my SO and I have a dishwasher.  At first it was great.  We had a lot of kitchen stuff in storage so we used it day and night as we unpacked and put away.

Now that we have everything unpacked and are just washing what we use, I'm wondering if it is more expensive (and a pain) to use versus hand washing dishes.

The dishwashing detergent is more expensive and seems to run out quicker (every 40-60 loads or 2-3 months).  We are also having random issues where the soap cup sometimes won't even open during the wash or there is soap residue is left on the dishes.  I told a friend about it and she said to buy an additive, these additives can cost $4-6 and only last about a month (I haven't tried them only priced).  So now I have buy more expensive dishwashing liquid plus and additive to use the dishwasher when a bottle of $4.99 Dawn liquid soap (not on sale) usually lasts 6-8 months.

Has anyone done a cost analysis about using a dishwasher vs hand washing?  Right now I've gone back to hand washing and am just using the dishwasher as a huge drying rack.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Gimesalot on June 03, 2015, 07:38:27 AM
I know that dishwashers use less water than washing dishes by hand.  I am not sure about the costs though.

To save a bit, use vinegar instead of additive.  It should keep your dishes spot free.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: smoghat on June 03, 2015, 07:40:57 AM
If retirement is about getting time to yourself, the last thing I want is to waste part of my life doing dishes. We bought a dishwasher years ago and never looked back.

The first trick, told to me by a representative from Miele itself (among the most expensive dishwashers, but it's the quietest and our dishwasher is not far from the TV and stereo!) is to use HALF the amount of detergent recommended. More that that is not necessary. That, in itself, will reduce the amount of rinse aid you need. As far as rinse aid goes, it's just a surfactant. You can try to use vinegar, although the smell bugs me, and there are other surfactants that you could try.

I'm sure you could DIY it. http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2012/05/10-things-you-should-know-before-making-homemade-dishwasher-detergent.html

Now that you that you have the thing, you might as well use it. It uses less water and it saves you time. If it's a half hour a day of washing, then that's a 15 hour a month job that you just quit, or over the course of a year, it's a whole month of work you were forced to do. 
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Chris22 on June 03, 2015, 07:48:56 AM
If retirement is about getting time to yourself, the last thing I want is to waste part of my life doing dishes. We bought a dishwasher years ago and never looked back.

The first trick, told to me by a representative from Miele itself (among the most expensive dishwashers, but it's the quietest and our dishwasher is not far from the TV and stereo!) is to use HALF the amount of detergent recommended. More that that is not necessary. That, in itself, will reduce the amount of rinse aid you need. As far as rinse aid goes, it's just a surfactant. You can try to use vinegar, although the smell bugs me, and there are other surfactants that you could try.

I'm sure you could DIY it. http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2012/05/10-things-you-should-know-before-making-homemade-dishwasher-detergent.html

Now that you that you have the thing, you might as well use it. It uses less water and it saves you time. If it's a half hour a day of washing, then that's a 15 hour a month job that you just quit, or over the course of a year, it's a whole month of work you were forced to do.

365 * .5 = 182.5 hrs / 24 hrs/day = 7.6 days, or a week, not a month.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: The_path_less_taken on June 03, 2015, 07:51:07 AM
When I remodeled this house after I bought it, the contractor looked at me like I was from Mars when I told him the only thing I did with the last dish washer was store paper towels and kitchen items inside of it. He sputtered, "Um, resale value?"

"I intend to die here, so the new people can put one in for all I care."

Your mileage may vary, but I've never seen one get dishes as clean as hand washing. Even a Miele, which a friend has. I'm on a well: extra water doesn't bother me.

During the worst CA drought (to date) my Uncle Pete would have two sinks half full of water and wash in one and rinse in the other one...I doubt that's more water than the machine would use.

As  a kid, it seemed like more work to me...but we would pre rinse, then have to stack them so carefully to optimize the water jets, then unload the dishwasher...

If there were a ton of people in the house, or the kind that had to have a glass of water every two hours with a separate glass...maybe.

Otherwise I think hand washing is cheaper/better.

Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: MustacheNY on June 03, 2015, 07:53:36 AM
A few scientific studies have been done showing that a dishwasher is in fact more efficient not only from a water usage perspective, but also from an energy consumption perspective.  When you factor in the additional time that it frees up to spend time with the family, or do other more enjoyable tasks, it has always been an easy decision for me to utilize the dishwasher.  Here is an interesting article that goes into some of the considerations in analyzing this, with some ranges of numbers and a brief hypothetical analysis included.

http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Philociraptor on June 03, 2015, 07:59:52 AM
If retirement is about getting time to yourself, the last thing I want is to waste part of my life doing dishes. We bought a dishwasher years ago and never looked back.

The first trick, told to me by a representative from Miele itself (among the most expensive dishwashers, but it's the quietest and our dishwasher is not far from the TV and stereo!) is to use HALF the amount of detergent recommended. More that that is not necessary. That, in itself, will reduce the amount of rinse aid you need. As far as rinse aid goes, it's just a surfactant. You can try to use vinegar, although the smell bugs me, and there are other surfactants that you could try.

I'm sure you could DIY it. http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2012/05/10-things-you-should-know-before-making-homemade-dishwasher-detergent.html

Now that you that you have the thing, you might as well use it. It uses less water and it saves you time. If it's a half hour a day of washing, then that's a 15 hour a month job that you just quit, or over the course of a year, it's a whole month of work you were forced to do.

365 * .5 = 182.5 hrs / 24 hrs/day = 7.6 days, or a week, not a month.

I think they did 182.5 hrs / 8.5 hrs/workday = 21.5 workdays, approximately the amount of workdays in a month.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: 2ndTimer on June 03, 2015, 08:01:20 AM
This is a slightly different perspective.  I also came late to the concept of a dishwasher and I find that I love it.  I don't pretend that I have done the cost comparison to hand washing but I find myself much more inspired to cook knowing that the hour of cleanup has been reduced to 10 minutes of wiping dirty surfaces and loading the dishwasher.  One trip to a restaurant will pay for a lot of soap and hot water.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Philociraptor on June 03, 2015, 08:04:14 AM
As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Chris22 on June 03, 2015, 08:08:18 AM
As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

I don't mind wiping things down and getting the food gunk off and all, but sterilizing glasses and silverware, etc, is a big PITA.  Rather just rinse and toss into the dishwasher. 

Personally, my feeling is if you're squeezing pennies hard enough to worry about the minute cost of dishwasher versus handwashing, you've lost the plot and perspective.  It's about enjoying life more, not obsessing over details.  That's much more of a drag.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: arebelspy on June 03, 2015, 08:11:02 AM

As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

Personally, my feeling is if you're squeezing pennies hard enough to worry about the minute cost of dishwasher versus handwashing, you've lost the plot and perspective.  It's about enjoying life more, not obsessing over details.  That's much more of a drag.

Obsessing over details and not enjoying life seems to be the opposite of what that quote says.

It sounds like he very much enjoys doing dishes.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Chris22 on June 03, 2015, 08:16:45 AM

As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

Personally, my feeling is if you're squeezing pennies hard enough to worry about the minute cost of dishwasher versus handwashing, you've lost the plot and perspective.  It's about enjoying life more, not obsessing over details.  That's much more of a drag.

Obsessing over details and not enjoying life seems to be the opposite of what that quote says.

It sounds like he very much enjoys doing dishes.

Two separate thoughts.  First one was directed at the poster I was responding to.  Second was directed at the OP/overall thread.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: RunHappy on June 03, 2015, 08:28:46 AM
I guess after years of hand washing I felt like I had a pretty good system down, empty the drainboard in the morning while I wait for my coffee to brew (I stopped using the brew timer when the drainboard never got emptied), then as I use a dish during the day, I would soap it, rinse it, then drainboard it.  The only "big" load to wash was after the evening meal.

I was just wondering if having a dishwasher was really that cost effective. With this dishwaser you have to rinse the dishes pretty well before going in it so how much more time is it to just add a little soap to the sponge?  I like the idea of using to sanitize future baby bottles, but it just seems like an unnecessary expense outside of that..

I bookmarked the treehugger article to read later.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Beaker on June 03, 2015, 08:30:07 AM
A few scientific studies have been done showing that a dishwasher is in fact more efficient not only from a water usage perspective, but also from an energy consumption perspective.  When you factor in the additional time that it frees up to spend time with the family, or do other more enjoyable tasks, it has always been an easy decision for me to utilize the dishwasher.  Here is an interesting article that goes into some of the considerations in analyzing this, with some ranges of numbers and a brief hypothetical analysis included.

http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

I've actually looked into this some, and as far as I can find there has only been one study done - the University of Bonn study linked from that Treehugger article. Every other article I've ever found referenced that single study. It's not a bad study, but it has some caveats. Prepare for the Wall of Text.

The study is based on cleaning 12 place settings. This is perfect for a dishwasher, as plates, glasses & silverware tend to fit very well. But unless you just served carryout to 12 people, it's an incomplete picture. Where are the pots, pans, cutting boards, mixing bowls, chef's knives, and collanders that were used to prepare that meal? If you cook your own food those items need to be washed too, but they usually don't fit well in a dishwasher. You might need to run the dishwasher time (or two or three!) to clean those items, while they might be very easy to clean by hand. (As an aside, some items such as sharp knives and wooden items can be damaged by a dishwasher. Clearly destroying a tool is inefficient, so they should be handwashed in any case.)

Second, they used a random sampling of people to do the handwashing. It's a reasonable choice, but some of the people were terribly inefficient. For example, many of the people used 40-60 litres of water, but one person managed to use 447 litres! He/she literally left the hot water running full speed during the entire washing and drying process. So while the numbers may represent a population average, it seems obvious that even a modest attempt at efficiency could do much better. (Another aside: many of the people managed to not even clean the dishes well enough that they would be willing to use them. Clearly these were not skilled practitioners of the dishwashing arts!)

That said, I think there's an interesting point to be made about the minimum values observed. The minimum water used for hand washing was 20-30 litres. The dishwashers averaged 15 litres of water. So in the specific case of loads that can be densely packed in the dishwasher, it is probably more efficient to use the dishwasher than to hand wash. In the case of large or irregular items, I think the jury is still out.

My personal procedure is to put all the plates, bowls, glasses and silverware in the dishwasher. Everything else gets handwashed. I can't prove that this is the most efficient approach, but it seems at least competitive.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: matchewed on June 03, 2015, 08:54:50 AM
I wash by hand currently. I'd like to install a foot pedal to assist with turning the water on/off while my hands are busy w/ the scrubbing but I'm in an apartment.

I find hand washing to be very enjoyable. There is something soothing with the ritual of it, almost meditative.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: spokey doke on June 03, 2015, 09:15:00 AM
I second the observation that half the recommended detergent is about right for dishwashers.

I also think they are more efficient unless you are really, really obsessive about conservation and your hand-washing system.

For me, one important factor is whether the dishes get clean, and not wasting resources in doing so.  When my SO hand-washes the dishes, I end up needing to rewash many of them - a double waste.  I like the dishwasher.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 03, 2015, 09:44:09 AM
Hand washing wins IMHO.   I almost always have pots, big pans,  Tupperware, etc..   I have to hand wash those anyway.  It takes what -- 5 seconds to wash a dish in the soap water I have for the pans?    My wife would disagree and likes to load and unload after essentially washing the dishes first.   Her's always come out scummy and mine are clean and clear.

Another option is paper plates.   Use the weaved plate holder deals.   The cost is like 1 cent per plate.   If we have a lot of people over (37 at Xmas), we splurge on the expensive paper plates.   Bam, bam they go in the trash -  dishes done!

I think I have lived in houses without dishwashers for a total of 20 years at this point but currently have one.

Now let's talk garbage disposals. 

 Remodeling our kitchen wife says in front of Home Depot worker in the garbage disposal isle "we need a garbage disposal."   I say "we're on a septic system and we shouldn't  be flushing stuff down the drain."  Home Depot guy looks at me with a cautioned look and then agrees "yeah,  if you have a septic, you probably don't want a garbage disposal."   Chalk one up for hubby!

Never got the concept of GD.  So much easier to strain and compost.  Plus they are super nasty.  That and even if you are on a city sewer system,  why would you want to flush a bunch of vegetable matter down to your already overworked treatment system?

And on to oil and grease -- never ever, ever pour into your sink.  Always either reuse, use for another purpose (fire starter), feed to wildlife or trash --- but never down the drain.  Imagine the work a septic or treatment facility has to do to remove 1 cup of oil from water.   
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Hotstreak on June 03, 2015, 10:34:22 AM
I use the machine for things that fit well: plates, bowls, silverware, Tupperware (top rack only). 

Then I hand wash odd or bulky items, and anything that I'm worried about being damaged by the dishwasher: food prep knives, wood cutting boards, large bowls, delicate glass.

I think the dishwasher saves time, and it's cheap enough to use that I don't worry about it.  I also have huge hands so I have trouble scrubbing down in to glasses.  If I get a brush with a scrubbing head somebody ends up using it on a scrambled egg pan or charred roasting pan, and that's done for!
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: AJ on June 03, 2015, 10:47:31 AM
Now that we have everything unpacked and are just washing what we use, I'm wondering if it is more expensive (and a pain) to use versus hand washing dishes.

If it's just the two of you, you may be right. When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run - which means the food is either crusting onto the dishes or we had to pre-rinse them, which rather defeats the purpose and any water savings.

If you do use it, I have had good luck with homemade dishwasher soap (mostly baking soda and salt), and definitely use vinegar rather than jetdry (I've never noticed any lingering smell).
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Chris22 on June 03, 2015, 11:46:21 AM
If it's just the two of you, you may be right. When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run - which means the food is either crusting onto the dishes or we had to pre-rinse them, which rather defeats the purpose and any water savings.

Disagree.  I prerinse all my stuff before putting it in, and it's usually just a splash of water to remove food stuffs, or maybe a quick wipe with a spong.  The process for handwashing is wipe away foodstuffs, then apply soap, wipe again, then rinse off soap, then dry.  So basically prerinsing is only 25-33% of the time/effort of handwashing IMO.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: snogirl on June 03, 2015, 12:09:04 PM
I wash my own dishes. It takes anywhere from 60 seconds to a couple of minutes.
My dishwasher isn't even hooked up but looks oh so pretty shined up like a diamond under the kitchen counter.
Another household might need one but it is only me most of the time.
Whatever you want to do go for it.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 03, 2015, 03:50:29 PM
If it's just the two of you, you may be right. When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run - which means the food is either crusting onto the dishes or we had to pre-rinse them, which rather defeats the purpose and any water savings.

Disagree.  I prerinse all my stuff before putting it in, and it's usually just a splash of water to remove food stuffs, or maybe a quick wipe with a spong.  The process for handwashing is wipe away foodstuffs, then apply soap, wipe again, then rinse off soap, then dry.  So basically prerinsing is only 25-33% of the time/effort of handwashing IMO.

I air dry and rarely dry and reshelf.   So in the morning the dish is right where I left it, nice and dry and I never open the cabinet.

Compare that to the automatic dishwasher guy ----  Rinse with sponge (shit that is basically washing already),  open DW,  bend over,  place in DW,  repeat this bend over process several times. (at least as long as just standing straight up and actually washing dishes.)    Then run the noisy ass thing.   Then open it bend,  bend,  bend to unload and shelve (because you can't leave the clean with the dirty and you don't want 10 dishes and 5 bowls and 10 glasses on your counter.   Freaking dishwashers are a lot of work that requires lots of bending, reaching and walking across the room. 

Could someone please do a biometric and actual time study on this?   One would think that with all that bending that there would be a propensity for injury?  Especially with the twisting motion typically used.     
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Chris22 on June 03, 2015, 03:58:07 PM
If you have to walk across the room to unload your dishwasher, someone planned your kitchen layout very, very poorly.  My plates, cups and bowls are stored in the cabinets right above the dishwasher.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: RunHappy on June 03, 2015, 04:02:48 PM
Maybe I'll do a timed experiment on this.  Of course that would mean leaving dirty dishes in the sink until the end of the day (to be consistent), but that would only drive me crazy for a week or so.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Cressida on June 03, 2015, 04:08:37 PM
When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run

This seems impossible unless you weren't cooking at home, which I think a majority of us do.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: AJ on June 03, 2015, 04:15:00 PM
When we lived in a household of just two, it would take days before the dishwasher was full enough to run

This seems impossible unless you weren't cooking at home, which I think a majority of us do.

Really? We make a batch of rice and beans or soup at the beginning of the week (2 pots, in the bottom of dishwasher) and it lasts a few days. Then 2 glasses, 2 plates, and 2 forks each night. Breakfast and lunch at work, so 4 small tupperware containers. It takes days before there is enough buildup to run a full load. Where are all these dishes coming from?
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Retire-Canada on June 03, 2015, 04:19:18 PM
As an aside, I grew up in a house without a functioning dishwasher, so I've always washed by hand and used the dishwasher as a dryer. I wash the majority of dishes that DW and I create, and I use it as a sort of meditation at the end of the day. There's something very calming about carefully cleaning the dishes after dinner.

+1 - While I don't love doing dishes I don't mind it at all. It's just part of my day.

We had a dishwasher for about a year in the house I bought. The GF used it and I did dishes by hand. When the dishwasher broke I refused to buy a new one. She's my tenant and doesn't want to buy a dishwasher so we are at a stand off.

I just don't see the point of a machine doing my dishes.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: The_path_less_taken on June 03, 2015, 04:35:37 PM
I just did a bunch of dishes. By hand.

What struck me most was...and granted, it's just me at the moment so a hectic household wouldn't be on the same page: it's gotta be cheaper, for one person.

I had a bagel for dinner: a small salad plate with no grease/cream cheese or whatever on it...a swipe and a rinse. I had grapes for dessert: swiped edge of bowl with soapy sponge, rinsed. Yogurt/cereal blueberries for breakfast: one bowl. One spoon.

And a tea cup, which I honestly only like to wash once a week.

I'd have to buy more dishes if I was going to 'fill' a dishwasher....and things would start to smell before it was frugally time to run it.

If you A) know what the dish held, you know if it needs the whole song and dance or just a quickie.
and if B) you're not eating a ton of greasy things, I think hand washing will win out.

Agree with all the people who said delicate/bulky/expensive things don't go in anyway. And agree that the loading/unloading seemed more time consuming to me than just doing them.

YMMV
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: dudde_devaru on June 03, 2015, 05:04:44 PM
I usually do the dishes while the misses does the awesome cooking. We will have close to 30-35 items in the sink which I hand wash carefully while watching "MMM" videos (from past one week), Some 'training' videos in YouTube runs to 1hr! Also some might car mods, top gear and wheeler dealer :D
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 03, 2015, 05:19:18 PM
Sure you can multitask while hand washing.   Just did a personal test.   Hand washing won over rinse load shelve on a time factor.   The bending and reaching sucked too.   I'm beginning to think the whole dishwasher thing has been one of the greatest marketing things of all time.    Kinda like lather, rinse, repeat was for shampoo marketers.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: CanuckExpat on June 03, 2015, 05:25:35 PM
I kind of put dishwasher down in the category of marital aid...

That being said, it really is only efficient if you are running full loads. We have a household of two (and a baby who doesn't use dishes), we run it about two times a week. I find it mainly helpful for the multiple tupperware containers I take my lunches in, as I don't want to deal with washing those every day.

This does mean we have a big stock pile of plates, utensils and containers built up to use while we wait for the dishwasher to fill up, but those have been built up over time, are relatively inexpensive, and quite helpful when entertaining anyways.

I use much less detergent than there is room for, probably 1/4 to 1/2, and unless there is gunky food stuck on, I don't rinse the dishes. I think our dishwasher manual says pre-rinsing is not needed. (We rinse into a bucket of water I save and then throw on the compost pile).

We do hand-wash most pots and pans, cutting boards, and cooking knives (I'd worry about those getting dull in the dishwasher, and it seems like a safety hazard). So we save the dishwasher for plates, pots and utensils we eat with daily, and containers I take lunch in. We still get plenty of use out of it.

Also, I definitely turn off the heated dry option to save energy. When I run it over-night, I never have a problem with wet dishes in the morning.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: zoltani on June 03, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
If you have a newer dishwasher and are rinsing your plates before loading them STOP! Newer dishwashers and detergents are designed to work on plates with dried on crap. I have tested this many time, from dried up peanut butter to egg yolk. Try it!
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Gentleman X on June 03, 2015, 06:56:45 PM
I wash a dish immediately after using it, then put it in the dishwasher to dry. Spouse washes dishes while I cook (and vice versa), and after dinner we each wash our stuff by hand and put it in the dishwasher to dry. I skip it ahead to the "heat dry" setting on occasion.

I'm with the gentleman up there who uses his morning coffee brew time to put dishes away.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Outlier on June 03, 2015, 07:59:56 PM
I grew up in a family of 5 hand washing the dishes after dinner every night. My wife thought I was nuts when we bought our house and when she pointed out that it had no dish washer I just shrugged. It takes me about 20 minutes to wash the dishes, dry them and put them away.

It's the time of day when I listen to podcasts so I really kind of enjoy it.

We have a portable dish washer now but I don't use it. It's loud and it takes a long time to run compared to just hand washing. My wife likes to use it when we have friends over and she cooks for multiple people though.

At the end of the day I guess it's not really important how you get the dishes clean. As long as you have a clean plate the next time you want a sandwich it's probably all the same.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: letired on June 03, 2015, 08:32:51 PM
I'm in the pro-dishwasher camp. I grew up with a dishwasher, and while I complained about emptying it as a kid, I find it far preferable to handwashing. I guess I just have a thing about gross dishes. If you have crap that doesn't get cleaned off during the dishwasher cycle/you have to prerinse, you either have a seriously crappy dishwasher or seriously overloaded it. And I can never get the tiny grooves in my snap locking glass tupperware as clean handwashing as with a dish washer without spending forever with a little scrubbie brush instead of the regular sponge.

I think it comes down to how hectic your life is, how much you enjoy (or don't) hand washing dishes, and how well your dishwasher works. As previously discussed, it's probably a wash in the water and electricity department. I really hate handwashing dishes.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 03, 2015, 08:48:35 PM
If you have a newer dishwasher and are rinsing your plates before loading them STOP! Newer dishwashers and detergents are designed to work on plates with dried on crap. I have tested this many time, from dried up peanut butter to egg yolk. Try it!
brand and model please?  My wife wants that.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Caoineag on June 03, 2015, 09:17:46 PM
...brand and model please?  My wife wants that.

Kenmore Ultra Wash HE in this household. You better believe we don't pre rinse anything.

2 people and we load it full daily. You all must be very efficient batch cookers to go longer because we still eat out on a regular basis as well. Course, I also had a coworker call me a foodie the other day and I am known at work as a cook so lunch is definitely not just one container...
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: forummm on June 03, 2015, 09:29:48 PM
I think the dishes get cleaner in a dishwasher and I don't want the grease and stuff on my hands. I'm willing to pay whatever small cost the dishwasher requires. There's too much bacteria in the kitchen for me not to think about it.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: spokey doke on June 03, 2015, 10:33:54 PM
I really don't think it is an either-or situation, and the MMM model emphasizes flexibility and the use of common sense in making the most of resources...so of course if you just had a bagel or piece of toast, you may not even need to rinse a plate, just wipe it off and put it in the rack. Or, if something clearly won't fit well in the dishwasher, or won't get clean without some elbow grease, then do it by hand.  For plates that fit well and get cleaned well, and for glass and silverware, it could be more efficient to load them up and let a good dishwasher with a modest amount of detergent to do what it was designed to do.

I do handwash a lot of items, and use the dishwasher on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Rural on June 04, 2015, 06:44:01 AM
I grew up without a dishwasher, and now that I have the option, I'd much rather work an extra year if that's what it takes to afford a good edishwasher. It isn't, of course, because we installed a high-efficiency one that uses 1.6 gallons of water per load and minimal electricity. The "Eco" setting gets everything clean without rinsing, and the store brand rinse aid that keeps film from forming costs $1 at Dollar General and last three months.


We scrape anything large enough to qualify as "dog food" into the dogs' food and then load without rinsing. No problems. I avoid owning any utensils that don't go in the dishwasher, and I have never had a problem with pots and pans getting clean, though occasionally I'll have to scrub the crock pot a bit more with a plastic scrubbie if I've let something burn onto it.


But that's all. Only dishes I clean are the crock on rare occasions and my cast iron. This makes for a much happier life.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: TheFrugalFox on June 04, 2015, 07:57:51 AM
I do all the dishes (and most of the cooking) for us - just the two of us. I wash every second morning - no need to wash every day for us. I kind of weirdly enjoy it - not sure why.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 04, 2015, 09:13:47 AM
I grew up without a dishwasher, and now that I have the option, I'd much rather work an extra year if that's what it takes to afford a good edishwasher. It isn't, of course, because we installed a high-efficiency one that uses 1.6 gallons of water per load and minimal electricity. The "Eco" setting gets everything clean without rinsing, and the store brand rinse aid that keeps film from forming costs $1 at Dollar General and last three months.


We scrape anything large enough to qualify as "dog food" into the dogs' food and then load without rinsing. No problems. I avoid owning any utensils that don't go in the dishwasher, and I have never had a problem with pots and pans getting clean, though occasionally I'll have to scrub the crock pot a bit more with a plastic scrubbie if I've let something burn onto it.

I don't understand?  How do you fit a large pot,  a fry pan and a suate pan in your Dishwasher while at the same time fitting in dishes.   My fry pan takes up the entire lower self and the pot won't even fit. 

I wonder if people here are even talking about the same thing I have?    Ours is about 36 inches across (exterior) and maybe 30 inches top to bottom with two racks and a utensil thingy on the side.   

Plastic storage containers?   Forget it -- the dry cycle assures warping.

Do folks here have bigger units?   Is there something I'm missing?    If I had to do pots and pans in the DW I would need to do two loads?   

I am comfortable leaving dishes and pans in our large sink to soak overnight or longer.   The wife freaks out and must put them in the DW immediately.   I get that,  but I don't get how to put pots and pans and dishes in same unit at same time?


Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 04, 2015, 10:25:28 AM
I think the dishes get cleaner in a dishwasher and I don't want the grease and stuff on my hands. I'm willing to pay whatever small cost the dishwasher requires. There's too much bacteria in the kitchen for me not to think about it.

Hand sanitizer and latex gloves.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: zoltani on June 04, 2015, 10:43:42 AM
If you have a newer dishwasher and are rinsing your plates before loading them STOP! Newer dishwashers and detergents are designed to work on plates with dried on crap. I have tested this many time, from dried up peanut butter to egg yolk. Try it!
brand and model please?  My wife wants that.

Bosch 500 series with 3rd rack

Someone mentioned expensive dish detergent. Yeah, it is, if you buy at the grocery store. This is what i use:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GLXKDPC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687762&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000P9SRHE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1SDZGXHJTSTHPV2H581V

90 count for about $13
Lasts me about a year
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: sunday on June 04, 2015, 10:59:22 AM
^^^ That Finish powerball tab stuff is the best. 110 pack at Costco for around $14.

Also, we have an older dishwasher we don't quite want to get rid of yet, but it has an antiquated dry cycle that make it smell like something is burning, so we don't use it. Just let it air dry on the rack and humidify the house a little bit.
 
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: CanuckExpat on June 04, 2015, 12:43:53 PM
we installed a high-efficiency one that uses 1.6 gallons of water per load and minimal electricity. The "Eco" setting gets everything clean without rinsing

Wow I never realized they were this efficient, that's less water than flushing many toilets a single time.
What brand and model out of curiosity?
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: risky4me on June 04, 2015, 03:11:18 PM
I rinse off the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher because it takes us a few days to fill it and I don't want food sitting in there for that time. We have a Bosch to save on water, but I have never had a dishwasher that does as good of job as hand wash and rinse- so I hand wash wine glasses and such.

The main reason we use the dishwasher is to let the heat/dry cycle disinfect everything before it goes back in the cabinet.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: zoltani on June 04, 2015, 04:09:52 PM
For all the "hand washing gets things cleaner" folks a little anecdote.

When we first got our bosch i ran a white coffee mug through that had what I thought were permanent coffee/tea stains on the bottom. No matter how much I hand washed those stains were still there. One run through the bosch and it was sparkling white. It washed off YEARS of coffee/tea stains. Noticed this on a few other pieces of dishware. Maybe I just suck and hand washing, but I don't think so.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: vern on June 04, 2015, 10:26:54 PM
My house came with a dishwasher when I bought it 19 years ago.

We've never used it.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: FIRE me on June 04, 2015, 11:02:39 PM

Otherwise I think hand washing is cheaper/better.

Same here. I don't have one and I don't want one. Last dishwasher I had was 20 years ago. With the pre-rinse, loading, unloading, and inferior results compared to a careful hand wash, I don't think they are worth it.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: soapdish on June 05, 2015, 06:12:05 AM
When we bought our house back in 2005 (good bones but dated) it didn't have a dishwasher in it.  It was only after creating the space for one in the cabinets, doing the plumbing, and installing it myself did I feel like I had ownership of the place.  So yeah, I have an emotional attachment to the dishwasher.

I put plates, cups, silverware (smaller items that many of them can be put in) and irregularly shaped/difficult to clean things (because they're a pita to do by hand) into the dishwasher but wash the bowls, pots, pans, and things that need elbow grease by hand.  It takes long enough to do the cooking I do now, I don't need to add more cleanup time that I have to.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: DLJ154 on June 05, 2015, 07:29:57 AM
There doesn't need to be an absolute solution here.  You can hand wash some daily and put some in the dishwasher to be washed every few days.  There are some items we use every day such as the french press, chef's knife, cutting boards, and protein shaker bottles.  These we hand wash.  There are other items we have sufficient quantity to let sit in the dishwasher for a few days until it is full like plates and tupperware containers.  The dishwasher is loaded after all the hand washing is done.  That way we don't have to dedicate pre-rinse water because the water that runs off the hand wash items is used to rinse the dishwasher items. 
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Davids on June 05, 2015, 08:25:53 AM
Our house we bought in 2010 came with a dishwasher in the kitchen, I have never used it. At this point I would be afraid to turn it on since it has not been turned on in at least 5 years so who knows what would happen...
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Rural on June 05, 2015, 09:57:44 AM
I grew up without a dishwasher, and now that I have the option, I'd much rather work an extra year if that's what it takes to afford a good edishwasher. It isn't, of course, because we installed a high-efficiency one that uses 1.6 gallons of water per load and minimal electricity. The "Eco" setting gets everything clean without rinsing, and the store brand rinse aid that keeps film from forming costs $1 at Dollar General and last three months.


We scrape anything large enough to qualify as "dog food" into the dogs' food and then load without rinsing. No problems. I avoid owning any utensils that don't go in the dishwasher, and I have never had a problem with pots and pans getting clean, though occasionally I'll have to scrub the crock pot a bit more with a plastic scrubbie if I've let something burn onto it.

I don't understand?  How do you fit a large pot,  a fry pan and a suate pan in your Dishwasher while at the same time fitting in dishes.   My fry pan takes up the entire lower self and the pot won't even fit. 

I wonder if people here are even talking about the same thing I have?    Ours is about 36 inches across (exterior) and maybe 30 inches top to bottom with two racks and a utensil thingy on the side.   

Plastic storage containers?   Forget it -- the dry cycle assures warping.

Do folks here have bigger units?   Is there something I'm missing?    If I had to do pots and pans in the DW I would need to do two loads?   

I am comfortable leaving dishes and pans in our large sink to soak overnight or longer.   The wife freaks out and must put them in the DW immediately.   I get that,  but I don't get how to put pots and pans and dishes in same unit at same time?


I may have a bigger dishwasher; I haven't measured. Last night, I put a 12" fry pan (stainless gets used occasionally when the cast iron is already in use), a cookie sheet, a smallish mixing bowl, several plates, and one stray plastic cup in the bottom of my unit. Top was bowls, drinking cups and coffee cups, and spatulas in the half-row left between cups on either side and bowls down the middle. Utensils go in a basket mounted on the door. I very much like the efficiency of this one's design, and I have had much worse ones in terms of space in the past.


I have never used the dry setting in this dishwasher (air dry is part of the Eco cycle). I don't think I've ever purposefully used the dry on any dishwasher cycle - dishes dry on their own without wasting electricity. If you would put a dish in a drainer to dry when hand washing, why treat it differently in a machine? So I don't have to worry about plastic melting.

Edited for quote tags
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Rural on June 05, 2015, 10:14:04 AM
we installed a high-efficiency one that uses 1.6 gallons of water per load and minimal electricity. The "Eco" setting gets everything clean without rinsing

Wow I never realized they were this efficient, that's less water than flushing many toilets a single time.
What brand and model out of curiosity?


First, on consulting the manual, I see that Eco uses 2.9 gallons. Sorry, I went from memory and was probably remembering the gpm on our low-flow showerhead.


If you're still interested, it's a Whirlpool, model number WDF530PLYB3.


Looks like it's been discontinued: [size=78%]-1011090/WDF530PLYB/]http://www.whirlpool.com/kitchen-1/dishwasher-&-cleaning-2/dishwashers-3/-[WDF530PLYB]-1011090/WDF530PLYB/ (http://www.whirlpool.com/kitchen-1/dishwasher-&-cleaning-2/dishwashers-3/-[WDF530PLYB)[/size]

Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 05, 2015, 02:34:44 PM
For all the "hand washing gets things cleaner" folks a little anecdote.

When we first got our bosch i ran a white coffee mug through that had what I thought were permanent coffee/tea stains on the bottom. No matter how much I hand washed those stains were still there. One run through the bosch and it was sparkling white. It washed off YEARS of coffee/tea stains. Noticed this on a few other pieces of dishware. Maybe I just suck and hand washing, but I don't think so.

Or maybe your Bosch is awesome?    I have probably only been exposed to lower end models of DWs all these years.  Still can't imagine how water shooting at a cup cleans it better than mechanical action?   I suppose if it is high pressure (think pressure washer) and very hot that is the trick?  Or maybe it is that DW soap is super concentrated with bleach?

Why is this so damn important?  Why you say?

Well because like showering we have never been taught the best and most efficient way as children.  We also do this task so frequently on autopilot that we could potentially use 2,500 less hours over a lifetime washing dishes.     Do this in 15 areas of your life and you have effectively added 10 years of discretionary time to your life.    Respecting time and doing daily tasks in a very efficient auto manner is a big deal.   



A quote from the web --

"A study out of the University of Bonn in Germany, reported by Pablo Päster in the May/June issue of EatingWell Magazine, found that washing a load of dishes (12 place settings) by hand uses on average 27 gallons of water and 2.5 kilowatt-hours of energy to heat the water—equivalent to running a hair dryer for 2 1/2 hours. (Not to mention the parental energy it takes to get your kid to wash all those dishes in the first place.)

By comparison, an energy-efficient dishwasher uses about 4 gallons of water and 1 kWh of energy per load. (And over the course of a year, using the dishwasher saves more than 400 hours of labor!) Researchers also found that dishwashers cleaned better, as half of the hand-washers failed to reach an “acceptable level” of cleanliness."

The study seems pretty dubious to me?  (Dish Washer Institute study perhaps?)

1.  Why use hot water.  It is not like it is hot enough to kill germs?   2.  27 gallons?  Really?  So I soak in the same water I rinsed in and fill sink with 2 gallons of hot soapy water.   Then I rinse for 3 minutes with 9 gallons.  3.  400 hours per year?  Seriously.  I've never spent more that 10 minutes per day washing dishes.  That is  60 hours total per year.  My entire evening cooking, eating,  clean up time is less that 400 hours per year?

I'll have to do some more time studies on this and report back.  My initial self study showed that hand cleaning the dishes and sitting on the counter to dry was either close to or faster than -  scrape/rinse,  bend, load,  bend,  load,  bend, load,  bend, load,  add soap,  bend to put away soap,   open,  bend, take 4 things 4 steps,  open cabinets, stretch to load cabinet,  repeat 4-5 times ----   Then when ready to eat again -  open cabinet, reach,  take dishes to place,  close cabinet.

I don't care about that water as we are on a well and have excessive water here in Missouri.   In drought states I would definitely go with Styrofoam plates. My water takes 3 minutes to get hot,  so I just don't bother with hot water either.   

Here is a nice link with a video that demonstrates good dishwashing by hand. http://www.makeitmissoula.com/2012/12/paul-wheaton-save-water-hand-wash-dishes-dishwasher/

I like this quote from the piece ---"I like to wash dishes by hand because when I am done, the dishes are all done. I am not burdening my future self to finish loading. Or to unload. Nor am I leaving a “to do” for somebody else."

Some notes from the piece --

He washed the dishes in what appears to be 4  minutes.  (annual time 24 hours)
He did in fact burden himself by loading the dishes in dishwasher to dry??  In my method I simply barely turn and set on counter top on a towel.   No bending required at washing.   At future need the dish is there ready for the meat.   No bending there or reaching into a cabinet.  I also set the pan directly on the stove top so that it is ready for me to turn my wrist at next need. 

The total amount of water he used is quoted as 1 gallon.

I'm going to try to beat this tonight!

I really like that he is able to use so little water.   Have no idea why he chooses to load them in the dishwasher to dry.   What no towel or drying rack available?

So what I'm learning here is that there is a spectrum of methods,  physical efficiency and CO2 footprints to hand wash dishes. 

What I can say for certain is that hand washing done correctly uses far less water than the most efficient DWs (3-8 times less) and that if one uses cold water very little energy is used.   

I'll do my personal time study one more time while seeking improvement steps.   I will try to get my total hand washing time below 2 minutes. 


In the end I may chuck the entire dishwashing thing all together and go for the paper plate, paper cup deal.   I did that for a year once and remember as very freeing.  Still would need to contend with the pan cleaning and forks though. 

On my tombstone ----"I wish I hadn't spent 5 entire working year washing dishes, doing laundry,  mowing the lawn,  vacuuming and showering"

The minimalist life is slowing sucking me in!
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: dcheesi on June 05, 2015, 03:28:00 PM
Warm water can help loosen up grease-based deposits, which can otherwise be tough to get off once they've dried on. But most of the time I wash in cold water, it works well enough most of the time.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: justajane on June 05, 2015, 03:38:42 PM
If you have a newer dishwasher and are rinsing your plates before loading them STOP! Newer dishwashers and detergents are designed to work on plates with dried on crap. I have tested this many time, from dried up peanut butter to egg yolk. Try it!
brand and model please?  My wife wants that.

It's not just newer models that can handle the crusted on stuff. We have a Roper dishwasher that is likely 20 years old, and I never pre-rinse anything. I use half a Finish tab from Costco, and it works just fine. I do imagine that this older dishwasher uses more energy than newer models, but no way am I replacing it. I will keep on repairing it, in large part because I have heard horror stories about new models not getting the dishes cleaned.

We hand wash knives, pots, plastic lids for the Pyrex, and most bulky items. Even factoring that in, we usually run the dishwasher once a day. But we are a family of five who mostly eats in.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: NoraLenderbee on June 05, 2015, 05:05:15 PM
My husband and I have a deep philosophical difference about this. He believes dishwashers are evil, immoral, and fattening. So he does ALL the dishwashing in our house.

We've finally agreed to get new cabinets and counters and sink in the kitchen. The plumbing and electric are already there. There is going to be a dishwasher in this house soon, come hell or high water.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Cressida on June 05, 2015, 11:15:02 PM
My husband and I have a deep philosophical difference about this. He believes dishwashers are evil, immoral, and fattening.

This reminds me of my BIL who won't use a microwave because it gives the food "bad chi." He's a good guy but ??
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: gomike on June 05, 2015, 11:32:44 PM
Dishwaher = more time with family
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: ChrisLansing on June 06, 2015, 03:39:45 PM
My wife taught me to wash dishes the "primative" way that she had leaned growing up on a farm in SE Asia.   

You put water/soap in a small bowl (we use a plastic one that is used only for the purpose) then dip your scrub pad (whatever type you use) in the bowl and then wash the dish.   Once you have several plates washed you rinse them under the running tap then they go in the drainer.    Continue until done.     The sink is never filled with water. 

We stack the dishes in the sink, running just enough water over each plate to cover it.   That way they "soak" so nothing sticks to them.   Same with bowls, saucers etc.   

Dirty silverware goes in a small plastic bin which sits inside the sink    This bin is kept full of soapy water.    When it's time to do dishes nothing is gunked on.   Wash/rinse, and into the drainer. 

There is absolutely no way we use anywhere near as much water as a dish washing machine.   

We both feel that as long as we have hands we don't need a machine.   
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: dunhamjr on June 06, 2015, 07:34:54 PM
I will always have a dishwasher.

the cost savings is no where near enough vs the time spent to make me not use it.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: music lover on June 07, 2015, 11:30:51 AM
Putting dishes in the dishwasher takes about the same amount of time and effort as it does to put them in the sink...unless you consider bending over to be a terrible chore, lol. Letting the dishwasher wash them takes 10 seconds...the amount of time needed to add detergent and turn it on.

When the dishwasher cycle is over, open it up and let them air dry. That takes 10 more seconds. It takes me about a minute or so to empty a full dishwasher of clean dishes.

The total time required to clean and put away an entire load of dishes is about a minute and a half. I'm sure I could use a little less water by hand washing if I took some care, but the time saved is more valuable than the couple pennies saved in water usage.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: MLKnits on June 07, 2015, 11:45:40 AM
Dishwaher = more time with family

I find this the reverse of my experience. My family always had a dishwasher growing up, but it was the hand-washing (special-occasion china, brief periods when the dishwasher was broken, etc) that meant the family as a group stood around in the kitchen, rinsing and drying and talking.

I remember those times very, very fondly. They kept us together after family dinner ended, and usually led to other family activities, like a walk around the neighbourhood, when we might otherwise have put our dishes in the dishwasher and run off to our separate spaces.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 07, 2015, 01:10:24 PM
I have been doing some internet research on this and have come to the conclusion that hand washing done efficiently is faster, more efficient and ecconimical than dish washing in a machine.   You bias or mileage may vary.    I would suggest watching the video link I posted and then give it a personal try and time against doing the DW.       I also thinks that cabinets vs non cabinets should be seriously considered in this discussion.    Since my future self will be living in a tiny house or RV  for significant time periods,  it is important that I master the hand techniques.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: CanuckExpat on June 07, 2015, 02:12:59 PM
We've been talking about the merits of hand washing vs running the dish-washer for so long I think we forgot about the OPs original problem.

The dishwashing detergent is more expensive and seems to run out quicker (every 40-60 loads or 2-3 months).  We are also having random issues where the soap cup sometimes won't even open during the wash or there is soap residue is left on the dishes.

I think everyone has already nailed that they are probably using too much soap (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/your-money/13shortcuts.html?pagewanted=all).
It might be worth running an empty load or two with no soap or dishes to help clean the dishwasher (http://www.bobvila.com/articles/how-to-clean-a-dishwasher/), especially of all the extra soap gunk you've probably accumulated. That might explain why your soap cups don't open.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: pablo suarve on June 07, 2015, 02:38:08 PM
Handwashing dishes takes me three minutes, tops, per meal.  A dishwasher would take twice as long to clean the dishes, and for the time spent loading it, I could be finished washing by hand.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: HopefulMustache on June 07, 2015, 04:09:15 PM
I grew up with a dishwasher, but for the last 6 years or so have been living without one. Over time, I have learned to do what a few posters above have already mentioned, which is make it into a relaxing, almost meditative experience. It can feel calming, it can be a good time to listen to music or other things, etc. It *can* be, but of course sometimes you just wish the sink was empty.

It takes me about 15-20m a day on average, and it'd be nice not to clear out the sink, and then after cooking a meal with pots and pans and measuring cups that fill the sink entirely back up, spend that time clearing the sink again just to get back to even. Cooking is such a huge benefit that removing anything that acts as a deterrent to that is a big positive. The next kitchen I live in will almost certainly have a dishwasher (my partner is a big fan of them too), though by no means do I plan to use it exclusively.

I don't remember the dishwasher ever being a pain to use growing up. It was quick, easy, and we just about never ran out of clean dishes. Frankly, there was something peaceful and nice to me about unloading all the dishes back into their cabinets... though my siblings always seemed to hate that part the most.

To nitpick a bit, I can't see why putting a dish in the dishwasher is harder than putting it in the sink, or why removing it from the dishwasher is harder than removing it from the drying rack on the counter. It's just the washing part that changes. I know some people have mentioned bending at the waist as potentially problematic, but I have felt wrist pain after a long session of handwashing, and I don't think there's an argument that handwashing isn't more physically demanding. Nitpicks aside, I think it's just about finding out what you enjoy more personally... based on the posts above, you can get great efficiency if you desire using either method.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: justajane on June 07, 2015, 05:08:07 PM
One reason why I prefer the dishwasher is because my husband uses copious amounts of hot water when he washes things by hand. It is torture to listen to - it sounds like money down the drain to me. He lets it run full throttle while he washes and rinses. I have tried to express how anxious this makes me, but alas, the attempt to conserve water and natural gas is viewed as controlling behavior. So I try to let it go and use the dishwasher as much as possible.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 08, 2015, 08:47:40 PM
One reason why I prefer the dishwasher is because my husband uses copious amounts of hot water when he washes things by hand. It is torture to listen to - it sounds like money down the drain to me. He lets it run full throttle while he washes and rinses. I have tried to express how anxious this makes me, but alas, the attempt to conserve water and natural gas is viewed as controlling behavior. So I try to let it go and use the dishwasher as much as possible.

Why the hot water?  I find that a dish that has either soaked or is immediately washed requires very little in the way of water and cold works just fine.    I counted while I washed my dish fork and glass after lunch at work today.   About 15 seconds.   

I'll be training the 7 almost 8 year old son to wash dishes this summer.  So I'm glad I got a chance to do some research on the most efficient hand washing method.   So hopefully within 90 days I will have a fully trained hand dishwasher on hand.   

I think for families that is a viable and reasonable accommodation.     We also tend to spilt cooking and dish washing at my house.   Since I do most of the cooking DW has been doing most of the dishes.   She is pretty adamant about using the dishwasher.   I really think it is a fake out though.   

For a 2 person household the minimum number of dishes needed is 2.  2 glasses.  2 sets of utensils.   (hell you might even splurge and do sets of 6)

So for that amount one would need zero cabinet space,  no DW and just a towel to air dry.   You could probably pick up your total supplies for 5 bucks or less at the thrift store.

My assumption for a DW 2 person family that they will want numerous dishes,  glasses and utensils requiring 2 cabinets and 1 drawer.   Cabinets run about $400 a piece and $200 for the drawer.  So that is $600.  Throw in a nice dishwasher and we are at $1000 for the dish system.   Include the square footage needed for the DW and cabinet at $125 a sq ft ($1,200) and we are now at $2,200 for the traditional home dish management system. 

So basically close to zero vs.  $2,200.   

Yeah this all comes in handy when visualizing my future tiny house and lifestyle.   

 I'm not a zen dishwasher but more of a get it done guy.   So yeah,  my future tiny house will have no DW.  It will not have more than one dish/glass/cup dedicated cabinet.  The cabinet (storage unit) will be located directly above and to the right of the sink.   It will be glass fronted or have no front.  It will have grated shelves and a vented bottom or sides for air drying.  the dishes will be vertically stored so they can go straight to the cabinet to dry.  There will be a vertical utensil storage unit against the wall to the right of the sink. 

My kitchen is currently about 150 sq ft. ,  I would hope my future kitchen to be less than 10 sq ft which is what the RV we lived in while completing our current house project was.   I'm counting the galley walk through as part of the dining area.   

Weird --- the RV was around 300 sq ft compared to our current 3000.   I'm not happier and my life really doesn't seem substantially different?  Perhaps another RV is in our future. 

Hmmm?  Now I'm rambling ---- let's see --- sell the house for 100K equity  --- buy RV for 20K (nice one, big)  --- rent RV lot for $150 a month --- come out ahead?   No damn the math doesn't work because the RV depreciates too quickly while the damn house appreciates.  Well,  it was worth a try.  Well, shit now,  maybe if the RV was 10K and the lot rent $100?    And I earned a 10% return on the 80K.  Hmmmm?

   
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: The_path_less_taken on June 09, 2015, 08:55:02 AM
Bob W.
There's always the option of buying raw land, or land with just a septic tank in it. Property taxes for "undeveloped" land are usually a fraction of settled land.

So a semi-rural acre could possibly be purchased for 2-3 year lot rent...the tiny house/rv could float on that without being an in ground encumbrance.



As for the hand washing: living in an RV and camping both 'proved' to me that most dishes don't need hot water if either soaked first or washed right after using. And carrying water from a stream by bucket convinced me I didn't need quite as much water as I thought I did. (mainly because hiking back/forth to a stream with two metal buckets sucked, and forced me to learn to conserve)
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 09, 2015, 09:49:02 AM
Bob W.
There's always the option of buying raw land, or land with just a septic tank in it. Property taxes for "undeveloped" land are usually a fraction of settled land.

So a semi-rural acre could possibly be purchased for 2-3 year lot rent...the tiny house/rv could float on that without being an in ground encumbrance.



As for the hand washing: living in an RV and camping both 'proved' to me that most dishes don't need hot water if either soaked first or washed right after using. And carrying water from a stream by bucket convinced me I didn't need quite as much water as I thought I did. (mainly because hiking back/forth to a stream with two metal buckets sucked, and forced me to learn to conserve)

Good thoughts --- I have spent many a day  (over 200) tent camping and have always found it easy enough to wash dishes with just a tad of water. 

The land purchase is an option around here.  In that event I would likely RV on the land while constructing a dwelling.    The RV would then be reserved for travel.   

It seems like a lot of thought to put into dishwashing,  but I also put lots of thought into clothes washing,  showering,  composts toilets,  rain water collection and DYI water storage and filtering systems. 

I figure that on either an RV or Tiny house I can design and use without the need for either a septic or well system.   Those systems around here run in the 10-20K area. 

It rains a lot here so collecting rain, recycling grey water and using a compost toilet (humanure type) would mean that I would only need to collect maybe 2000 gallons a year in rain water.   Easy to do with 20 inches of annual rain.   The summer can go 90 days without much though. 

I would actually consider a similar system on a city house here.  My daily water usage may shake down like this  --- 1 g drinking, 0 gallon toilet,  4 g showers,  4 g laundry,  1 g sink etc..  So maybe 10 g a day or 300 a month.   80% of that can easily be sand filtered,  UV treated and reused being mixed with treated rainwater.    Filtered and UVed rainwater for drinking.   
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Beaker on June 09, 2015, 10:04:52 AM
Why the hot water?  I find that a dish that has either soaked or is immediately washed requires very little in the way of water and cold works just fine.    I counted while I washed my dish fork and glass after lunch at work today.   About 15 seconds.   

I've always heard that hot water is better for killing off germs on the dishes and those little petri dishes otherwise known as dish sponges. If you Google around a bit you can find lots of conflicting reports about whether hot water is effective or not. I haven't had much luck finding anything I would call authoritative.

The most common argument against hot water seems to be that it's not hot enough to matter. But water doesn't have to be actually boiling hot to kill some common strains of bacteria. For instance legionella dies at about 140F, which is easily achievable with normal hot water heaters. That's way too hot for bare hands, but you can stand it if you use gloves. (Tangentially, that's one reason to keep your water heater at a higher temperature - hot water heaters at 120F are a fantastic breeding ground for legionella.)

Anecdotally, I noticed that when I switched from "barely hot" water washing with bare hands to "really hot" water with gloves, my sponges last a lot longer without starting to smell. Which I take to mean that there's some benefit there. But I'm open to being proven wrong if anybody has some actual research (ie, not random bloggers making baseless assertions).
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: NewReality on June 09, 2015, 11:29:46 AM
I don't buy that running a dw is less water/costs less overall than handwashing, at least not in our household, and neither did it save much time. Maybe in a large restaurant.

I keep a minimal amount of place settings (4) and cookware/utensils (about 6) in the house, and we eat simple foods such as breads, rice and beans, etc. that don't make all that much mess. It's easy for each of us to simply rinse off our dish with a bit of hot water and into the drying rack after each meal. Cleanup uses at most 2 minutes of slowly running hot water per "big" meal (dinner), and mere seconds more generally.

Dishwashers run for a LONG TIME, and use heat (drying phase), and all this extra soap and whatnot, and you've usually gotta rinse the dishes first, if you want them to come clean. Then you've got to sit and listen to that thing churn and churn. Then you pull them out and they've still got crud and soap residue on them, "oh, I'll just rinse that off (again)". Then you pull out that one bowl that was holding on to water water with little bits of coffee grinds that dishwashers manufacture, it will splash right on to your crotch...

It's a machine, that must be purchased (worked for), assisted ("pre-rinsing"), loaded, run, unloaded, and maintained, all to ostensibly "replace" a task that should be very simple for humans.

It is more work to own and use than the problem it's supposedly there to solve. If dishwashers were around in the 1800s, Thoreau surely would have lampooned the idea in Economy.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: arcangel911 on June 09, 2015, 11:43:27 AM
I am one who will have a dishwasher. During the winter, I have other things to do than dishes. And in the spring/summer/fall- there is canning to be done. Although I see the points of not having one, I think that a dishwasher is god send in a lot of ways.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 10, 2015, 10:47:06 AM
I don't buy that running a dw is less water/costs less overall than handwashing, at least not in our household, and neither did it save much time. Maybe in a large restaurant.

I keep a minimal amount of place settings (4) and cookware/utensils (about 6) in the house, and we eat simple foods such as breads, rice and beans, etc. that don't make all that much mess. It's easy for each of us to simply rinse off our dish with a bit of hot water and into the drying rack after each meal. Cleanup uses at most 2 minutes of slowly running hot water per "big" meal (dinner), and mere seconds more generally.

Dishwashers run for a LONG TIME, and use heat (drying phase), and all this extra soap and whatnot, and you've usually gotta rinse the dishes first, if you want them to come clean. Then you've got to sit and listen to that thing churn and churn. Then you pull them out and they've still got crud and soap residue on them, "oh, I'll just rinse that off (again)". Then you pull out that one bowl that was holding on to water water with little bits of coffee grinds that dishwashers manufacture, it will splash right on to your crotch...

It's a machine, that must be purchased (worked for), assisted ("pre-rinsing"), loaded, run, unloaded, and maintained, all to ostensibly "replace" a task that should be very simple for humans.

It is more work to own and use than the problem it's supposedly there to solve. If dishwashers were around in the 1800s, Thoreau surely would have lampooned the idea in Economy.

This is funny!   Strangely I can't get this thread out of my head each time I hand wash a dish now.   

Some stuff is very funny  --- Hot water killing germs?   Seriously?  I just ate off this plate. What kind of germs was I eating off of?   My family and I all share our germs on a daily basis as it is and most of them reside on the handle to the fridge anyhow.     I'm just not a germaphobe I suppose.   

The drying rack or towel is where the magic is.  If you're shelving and unshelving IMHO you are just digging a hole only to fill it in latter in the day. 

The fact that so many people buy into the DW idea should be a case study on the power of marketing. 
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: zinethstache on June 10, 2015, 12:25:51 PM
We've lived many places some with dishwashers others without. Our current house has a dishwasher that really works because we picked it out and researched to ensure it would work! The crazy thing is that it was free with our package we put in when we remodeled our 1961 original kitchen.

We opt for quickly loading in it the things that fit, we do not rinse/pre-clean. It even has a china setting so for all our fancy meals have the same stragety, which is lovely.

We have found that a "pod" that contains all the cleaning materials works the best and We buy them on sale and with coupons. We are not afraid to stock up.

Its just the two of us so we load the dishes every other day or so. It is a morning chore and that afternoon they get put away.

Big or awkward items get handwashed.

I HATED pre-washing dishes to put them in the dishwasher...
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Dr. Pepper on June 10, 2015, 01:01:01 PM
Well we have one but I have always been a bit skeptical about it. (1) you have to pre-wash the dishes, otherwise any solids will get baked on in the drying cycle and are hard to get off, if I'm pre-washing it's not much more effort to add some soap and just wash by hand. (2) it uses up our hot water, and usually we are trying to bathe kids, showers etc around the same time it would be running, after dinner (3) it's loud (4) it doesn't clean as well as washing by hand (5) bulky items are difficult to clean, so they have to be cleaned by hand anyway, again it's not much effort to just clean the other stuff at the same time. (6) I can do the dishes much faster by hand, it takes maybe 20-30% of the time the dishwasher takes.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: RunHappy on June 10, 2015, 01:07:14 PM
I've been reading more about dishwashing and found this interesting article.  It really only talks about 1 study but it raises several questions.

"The study involved 1,029 Swedish children (ages 7 or 8) and found that those whose parents said they mostly wash the family's dishes by hand were significantly less likely to develop eczema, and somewhat less likely to develop allergic asthma and hay fever."

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/02/23/387553285/kids-allergies-and-a-possible-downside-to-squeaky-clean-dishes
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: RunHappy on June 10, 2015, 01:12:09 PM
For all the "hand washing gets things cleaner" folks a little anecdote.

When we first got our bosch i ran a white coffee mug through that had what I thought were permanent coffee/tea stains on the bottom. No matter how much I hand washed those stains were still there. One run through the bosch and it was sparkling white. It washed off YEARS of coffee/tea stains. Noticed this on a few other pieces of dishware. Maybe I just suck and hand washing, but I don't think so.

For those coffee/tea stains, wet the cup then sprinkle salt in it and rub the salt in with your fingers it will get rid of those stains.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Pigeon on June 10, 2015, 02:18:25 PM
I grew up in a family with six kids and for many years one of my jobs was washing dishes by hand.  I will never go without a dishwasher again.  I have little enough free time to waste on washing dishes.  We also had no garbage disposal and that's a must-have in my life, too.

I also have a Bosch.  It is da bomb and worth every penny it costs to buy and run.  I pre rinse nothing and the dishes come out sparkling.  It is also so quiet I can hardly tell it is running. 
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Cougar on June 10, 2015, 03:30:51 PM

i bought a new, scratch and dent; diswasher about a year ago; to replace the original; still havent used it; its faster for me to hand wash imo.

a dishwasher may be more effecient; but i still would rinse most dishes before putting them in the old dishwasher; seems faster to just add soap then and do it myself and be done.

Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 10, 2015, 04:04:21 PM
For all the "hand washing gets things cleaner" folks a little anecdote.

When we first got our bosch i ran a white coffee mug through that had what I thought were permanent coffee/tea stains on the bottom. No matter how much I hand washed those stains were still there. One run through the bosch and it was sparkling white. It washed off YEARS of coffee/tea stains. Noticed this on a few other pieces of dishware. Maybe I just suck and hand washing, but I don't think so.

For those coffee/tea stains, wet the cup then sprinkle salt in it and rub the salt in with your fingers it will get rid of those stains.

Thanks for that Swedish study.   I never stress about coffee or tea stains.   I'm going to just add more tea or coffee anyhow.  In fact,  I sometimes buy a coffee at a C store with a plastic lid and then see if I can go a whole month before the cup wears out.   Never soap and wash.   Just rinse and refill. 
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 10, 2015, 04:11:10 PM
I grew up in a family with six kids and for many years one of my jobs was washing dishes by hand.  I will never go without a dishwasher again.  I have little enough free time to waste on washing dishes.  We also had no garbage disposal and that's a must-have in my life, too.

I also have a Bosch.  It is da bomb and worth every penny it costs to buy and run.  I pre rinse nothing and the dishes come out sparkling.  It is also so quiet I can hardly tell it is running.

Those freaking Bosch DWs sound like they rock.  I might be swayed if I had one that could do that!

I see they are priced from 400-1800?

Anyone that has had the great Bosch experiences know what model they have?
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: cjottawa on June 10, 2015, 04:16:11 PM

i bought a new, scratch and dent; diswasher about a year ago; to replace the original; still havent used it; its faster for me to hand wash imo...

Seconding the bold part.

I will happily use a washing machine for clothes. It spits out clean clothes faster than I could with a washboard.

A dishwasher, racing me with a bristled scrub-brush and a pull-down faucet? Not even close - I win, clean dishes in minutes, not an hour.

A drop of Sunlight dish soap on a plate, another in a cup, add a tiny bit of water... scrub scrub scrub, quick rinse (like, 3 seconds) and it's done.

I know people who just loathe doing dishes but what made it bearable for me was adding the pull down faucet. On the "spray" mode, it peels grease off dishes and makes dish washing more like power-washing:

(http://www.americanstandard-us.com/assets/images/productImages/amstd/alternates/standard/3033.prd.s.alt.001.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYfCmJer_io
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 10, 2015, 04:21:47 PM
Oh yeah,  I have one of those!    If you hold it right next to your object it is like a mini pressure washer.   In fact,  I used it this morning on the pan I left soaking overnight.    It peeled off everything and left a residue of oil.   I didn't even bother wiping since I was putting it right back on the 1400 degree burner and adding a touch of olive oil anyway. 
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: cjottawa on June 10, 2015, 04:30:19 PM
For all the "hand washing gets things cleaner" folks a little anecdote.

When we first got our bosch i ran a white coffee mug through that had what I thought were permanent coffee/tea stains on the bottom. No matter how much I hand washed those stains were still there. One run through the bosch and it was sparkling white. It washed off YEARS of coffee/tea stains. Noticed this on a few other pieces of dishware. Maybe I just suck and hand washing, but I don't think so.

I just noticed this post (well, someone else quoting it).

It wasn't that you sucked at hand washing or that the Bosch dishwasher was necessarily better than other brands.

The chemicals you put in your dishwasher were better suited to removing the stains - wash powder or gel is highly caustic.

Pick one of these:

Drop it in your stained coffee/tea mug; add hot water. DON'T COVER OR SEAL IT. (pressure will build)
Leave it overnight. The stains will be gone. (it might even work after a few minutes and a bit of agitation with the OxiClean)
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: justajane on June 10, 2015, 08:06:41 PM
Pick one of these:
  • one tea-spoon of OxiClean powder
  • one Efferdent denture cleaning tablet

Drop it in your stained coffee/tea mug; add hot water. DON'T COVER OR SEAL IT. (pressure will build)
Leave it overnight. The stains will be gone. (it might even work after a few minutes and a bit of agitation with the OxiClean)

A little bit of Barkeeper's Friend will also take out tea or coffee stains. It also does wonders on glasses and removes the residue that some dishwashers give them. For cleaning in general, this stuff rocks.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Pigeon on June 11, 2015, 06:30:26 AM
I grew up in a family with six kids and for many years one of my jobs was washing dishes by hand.  I will never go without a dishwasher again.  I have little enough free time to waste on washing dishes.  We also had no garbage disposal and that's a must-have in my life, too.

I also have a Bosch.  It is da bomb and worth every penny it costs to buy and run.  I pre rinse nothing and the dishes come out sparkling.  It is also so quiet I can hardly tell it is running.

Those freaking Bosch DWs sound like they rock.  I might be swayed if I had one that could do that!

I see they are priced from 400-1800?

Anyone that has had the great Bosch experiences know what model they have?

I've got an 800, my sister has an older one, don't know the model, and my friend has a 300 and they are all awesome.  The major difference seems to be in noise level, with the 800 being the quietest, but I've been at my friend's house when hers was on and it's also very quiet.  My 800 is new, but it replaced an older one that was also awesome and very quiet.  The 800 actually has a little light that shines on the floor when it is  running because you can't otherwise tell because it is so quiet.  The noise level isn't why I got that model though.  I got a deal on a floor model.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Trimatty471 on June 11, 2015, 11:01:47 AM
The last time that I've had a dishwasher was in college.  And it seemed to me that it was just extra work.
So I hand wash.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: zoltani on June 12, 2015, 11:44:50 AM
I have a Bosch 500 with third rack and controls right on front, not hidden. Didn't think I would use the third rack, but now I don't think I would buy one without it.

Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: zoltani on June 12, 2015, 11:47:09 AM
Sexy, ain't it?

(http://st.houzz.com/simgs/d0a1a71e0249c779_4-6909/dishwashers.jpg)
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: arebelspy on June 12, 2015, 12:32:10 PM
Sexy, ain't it?

Reminds me of Calculon's evil half-brother.

(http://slurmed.com/fanart/javier/180_calculon's-half-evil-bro.gif)
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: BriarRose111 on June 14, 2015, 01:43:07 PM
I've heard that if you have a dishwasher and don't use it, that the seals / gaskets in it can dry out.   Not sure it is true, but my Mom had a dishwasher she rarely used and a repair guy told her that.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: SingleMomDebt on June 14, 2015, 02:42:05 PM
Never done a cost analysis. Not sure how I would. 1 bottle of dawn $2-$3 (handwashing - last me forever) vs. dish detergent big bottle warehouse buy $11 (dishwasher - 20 to 25 loads).

Water wise found out the model I have (older energy star) potentially uses 10-15 gallons H20 vs. standard sink (10-15 gallons + rinse). (I only fill my standard 15-20 gallon sink half way up)(new energy stars use 5.5 gallons approx.)(my dry cycle is always on air dry)

But hand washing, I feel my dishes are cleaner than my dishwasher. Then again I think I have a crappy apartment dishwasher that is due for replacing. Hand washing is therapeutic to me. Personal win for me = handwashing
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Shamantha on June 14, 2015, 03:27:08 PM
I have a dishwasher and run it daily, no rinsing, and I think it saves me 20 minutes a day. I always cook from scratch and I fill the dishwasher almost to capacity on most days. One plate for the main meal, one for sides, one bowl for salad. Then for cooking, one pan for the starchy stuff such as rice or pasta, one for the sauce or vegetables, sometimes a third one to grill or fry something,  a stick blender for sauces or dressings, with the stick blender cup, a large mixing bowl for the salad. Wineglass, waterglass. Another bowl or plate for dessert. Plastic cutting board and colander etc only if there still is room left. After dinner tea with something sweet, so a teacup and a small plate for a biscuit or chocolate. For lunch in the weekend it is usually a fried egg with toast or soup, so another pan and bowl or plate. Also every day the containers for my juicer and a juice glass. Then some tupperware or other containers that I store leftovers in, usually there are one or two of these as well.

It may be that I use more items than most people here? I love my food, and I pay a lot of attention to my meals. I love being able to put everything in the dishwasher whilst cooking, without losing time or (more importantly) space on the countertop and in the sink.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 15, 2015, 07:41:40 PM
Just finished hand washing the dinner dishes and pans and glasses and utensils for 3.    5.5 minutes.  I'm fucking exhausted.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: RunHappy on June 16, 2015, 06:57:09 AM
Just finished hand washing the dinner dishes and pans and glasses and utensils for 3.    5.5 minutes.  I'm fucking exhausted.

LOL!

I've been watching my times and I'm either really efficient at hand washing or really inefficient at dishwasher loading, but hand washing is faster for me.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Rural on June 16, 2015, 03:40:26 PM
I don't think I understand this loading the dishwasher thing. When you're finished with a dish, either you set it in the sink or you set it in the dishwasher, depending on where you intend to wash it.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: zoltani on June 16, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
I enjoyed tetris as a child, so I get some kind of weird satisfaction from loading the dishwasher, like tetris for adults.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Mrs.LC on June 16, 2015, 07:45:02 PM
100 replies on washing dishes.  Any volunteers to come do mine?  I have a sink and a dishwasher - your choice!! 

Sometimes I wash by hand, sometimes use the dishwasher.  Depends on how many dishes there are and the amount of time I have.  I don't mind washing by hand and know the method I use uses less water than the dishwasher.  The dishwasher detergent is also much more expensive than regular dish soap although the last detergent I got quite cheap with coupons. 

I'm going to summarize that the method of washing dishes is right up there with what direction you put the toilet paper on the holder - everyone does it their own way.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: music lover on June 17, 2015, 07:21:25 AM
I don't think I understand this loading the dishwasher thing. When you're finished with a dish, either you set it in the sink or you set it in the dishwasher, depending on where you intend to wash it.

I thought that was obvious, but some people seem to think it's back breaking and time consuming to load a dishwasher.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Shamantha on June 18, 2015, 12:11:39 PM
I don't understand it either. Even if washing by hand takes only 5 minutes, it is 5 minutes more than I spend on the dishes.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: arebelspy on June 18, 2015, 12:20:41 PM
I don't understand it either. Even if washing by hand takes only 5 minutes, it is 5 minutes more than I spend on the dishes.

Apparently you missed the responses where people enjoy it? 

That 5 minutes may be quite enjoyable.  What do you have to rush off to?

http://www.raptitude.com/2013/04/mindfulness-lives-in-the-sink/
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on June 18, 2015, 12:53:33 PM
I don't understand it either. Even if washing by hand takes only 5 minutes, it is 5 minutes more than I spend on the dishes.

On the surface it may seem that simple but reality is probably different than that. 

Here are the current steps that I could take if I were to use my dishwasher system as applied by many.  (and believe me I have seen this exact process many times ---frightening really)

1.  take dishes to sink
2. take pots/pan/sheets to sink
3. rinse dishes and utensils
4. turn and open dishwasher
5. find that it is full of washed dishes
6.  bend over and pick up a few dishes
7. turn
8.  walk 3 steps to counter
9.  Reach up and open cabinet
10 stretch to put clean dishes up
11.  turn
12.  return 3 steps to DW
13.  Repeat steps steps  6  -- 12 for 5-7 rotaions (fuck I'm exhausted already)
14.  Finally put the first dish in
15.  begin loading dishwasher by turning to right, bending and loading,  bending up,  turning to left
16. repeat step 15 4-6 times.
17.  Bend to open cabinet below sink
18. locate DW soap (because no one keeps it out)
19.  Turn to the right in a bent position
20.  Pour or load soap into DW
21.  Turn to left
22.  Return soap
23. Close cabinet
24.  turn to right in bent position again
25.  Close DW
26.  Push various buttons or turn knobs on DW
27.  Turn to left
28.  Your water has been running and is hot now.
28.5 Rinse pots and pans
29.  reach for soap (I keep mine out)
30.  Add soap to big pan
31.  Return soap
32.  Hand wash big pan with a sponge
32.  Hand wash other pots etc..
33.  Rinse said pots and pans turning to your right each time and placing them on the counter
34.  rinse sink with sponge and water.
35.  either wait for pots to dry or do several steps to retrieve dish towel and hand dry them
36.  After the pans and pots are dry do the whole twirl, walk, bend deal to put them in the bottom of your cabinets.
37.  Repeat 36 at least twice (shit I'm really tired now and I haven't even wiped down the stove or counter tops yet.
38.  You've done a good job on steps 1-37 so far. 
39.  3 hours later everyone wants a snack so you make a few snack plates and some drinks
40.  Crap more dishes and glasses and the DW is full of wet drying dishes (because we don't run the heat to save energy)
41.  Well shit,  you're not a let them sit in the sink sorta person so it is on to freaking hand washing the dishes and hand drying and repeating the whole twist, walk, open, reach deal.   
42.  Seems your finished with your dish washing duty.
43.  Whoops,  You forgot,  company is coming tomorrow so you want your DW empty.
44. well heck they are dry enough finally
45.  Repeat the whole steps 6-13 again.
46.  Thank the lord Jesus you are finally done having the Dish Washer wash your dishes.   

I'm sure some of you either add or have fewer steps on many occasions but I'm not kidding when I say I have seen this ballet in most homes. 

Tomorrow ---

Bob W's New Improved 10 Step Dish Washing Management System is Explained

It could save you 30 steps per day,  prevent repetitive movement back injuries and free up over 3,600 lifetime hours of your future time from the drudgeries of automatic dishwashing.  (your future self will thank you)

It is an entire system and new way about thinking of your dish cleaning management.  It was designed in a partnership between NASA, Chipotle and Elon Musk  so be prepared to be shaken to your core. 
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: zoltani on June 18, 2015, 01:14:27 PM
Bob, you have entirely too much time on your hands! Are you already FIRE'd?
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Sylly on June 18, 2015, 01:27:21 PM
Those who say no pre-rinsing. does it still apply if you only run the dw 1-2 times a week?
And when you say 'newer' dws, how new?

I always pre-rinse to avoid the dried out gunk, and also because my dw appears to be fairly old (maybe 15-20yrs old). But I suppose it may be worth doing an experiment where I don't pre-rinse and see what happens. Worst that can happen is I have to rewash it by hand...
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Shamantha on June 18, 2015, 01:45:56 PM
Arebelspy, for people who enjoy it it's a different story of course. I love cooking and do this very elaborately and from scratch every day, I find it tremendously relaxing. I can understand people find dishwashing relaxing as well. What I do not understand is how they state it is quicker, which is what my post was about.

Bob, for me the steps are:
1. When something becomes dirty, instead of putting it in the sink or on the countertop, put it in the dishwasher.
2. Before going to bed, switch on dishwasher (cheap energy rate)
3. Morning, while water is boiling for tea: open dishwasher and put things in cupboards, which I can reach from the dishwasher without moving a step.

Would probably hate a 10 steps program if my three step one is so efficient but I am curious now! Do we really have to wait to tomorrow? :-)

/me thinks that if her back can't stand bending 2x30 times a day she would feel she has serious health issues she should work on.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: music lover on June 18, 2015, 02:01:09 PM
I don't understand it either. Even if washing by hand takes only 5 minutes, it is 5 minutes more than I spend on the dishes.

On the surface it may seem that simple but reality is probably different than that. 

Here are the current steps that I could take if I were to use my dishwasher system as applied by many.  (and believe me I have seen this exact process many times ---frightening really)

1.  take dishes to sink
2. take pots/pan/sheets to sink
3. rinse dishes and utensils
4. turn and open dishwasher
5. find that it is full of washed dishes
6.  bend over and pick up a few dishes
7. turn
8.  walk 3 steps to counter
9.  Reach up and open cabinet
10 stretch to put clean dishes up
11.  turn
12.  return 3 steps to DW
13.  Repeat steps steps  6  -- 12 for 5-7 rotaions (fuck I'm exhausted already)
14.  Finally put the first dish in
15.  begin loading dishwasher by turning to right, bending and loading,  bending up,  turning to left
16. repeat step 15 4-6 times.
17.  Bend to open cabinet below sink
18. locate DW soap (because no one keeps it out)
19.  Turn to the right in a bent position
20.  Pour or load soap into DW
21.  Turn to left
22.  Return soap
23. Close cabinet
24.  turn to right in bent position again
25.  Close DW
26.  Push various buttons or turn knobs on DW
27.  Turn to left
28.  Your water has been running and is hot now.
28.5 Rinse pots and pans
29.  reach for soap (I keep mine out)
30.  Add soap to big pan
31.  Return soap
32.  Hand wash big pan with a sponge
32.  Hand wash other pots etc..
33.  Rinse said pots and pans turning to your right each time and placing them on the counter
34.  rinse sink with sponge and water.
35.  either wait for pots to dry or do several steps to retrieve dish towel and hand dry them
36.  After the pans and pots are dry do the whole twirl, walk, bend deal to put them in the bottom of your cabinets.
37.  Repeat 36 at least twice (shit I'm really tired now and I haven't even wiped down the stove or counter tops yet.
38.  You've done a good job on steps 1-37 so far. 
39.  3 hours later everyone wants a snack so you make a few snack plates and some drinks
40.  Crap more dishes and glasses and the DW is full of wet drying dishes (because we don't run the heat to save energy)
41.  Well shit,  you're not a let them sit in the sink sorta person so it is on to freaking hand washing the dishes and hand drying and repeating the whole twist, walk, open, reach deal.   
42.  Seems your finished with your dish washing duty.
43.  Whoops,  You forgot,  company is coming tomorrow so you want your DW empty.
44. well heck they are dry enough finally
45.  Repeat the whole steps 6-13 again.
46.  Thank the lord Jesus you are finally done having the Dish Washer wash your dishes.   

I'm sure some of you either add or have fewer steps on many occasions but I'm not kidding when I say I have seen this ballet in most homes. 

Tomorrow ---

Bob W's New Improved 10 Step Dish Washing Management System is Explained

It could save you 30 steps per day,  prevent repetitive movement back injuries and free up over 3,600 lifetime hours of your future time from the drudgeries of automatic dishwashing.  (your future self will thank you)

It is an entire system and new way about thinking of your dish cleaning management.  It was designed in a partnership between NASA, Chipotle and Elon Musk  so be prepared to be shaken to your core.

Bob, you need to work on your efficiency. Try this:

1. Put dirty dishes in dishwasher and the ones you will wash by hand in the sink.
2. When dishwasher is full, add soap and turn it on.
3. When the dishwasher has finished, open to air dry.
4. Put the dishes away.

See how simple it is??
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Rural on June 18, 2015, 05:31:41 PM
Those who say no pre-rinsing. does it still apply if you only run the dw 1-2 times a week?
And when you say 'newer' dws, how new?

I always pre-rinse to avoid the dried out gunk, and also because my dw appears to be fairly old (maybe 15-20yrs old). But I suppose it may be worth doing an experiment where I don't pre-rinse and see what happens. Worst that can happen is I have to rewash it by hand...


Yes, I only run the dishwasher a couple of times a week unless I'm on a batch cooking tear. The dishwasher's from 2014, and it's not super expensive brand (a Whirlpool).
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Mark31 on June 18, 2015, 08:42:55 PM
I no more begrudge doing the dishes than hanging up the nappies. I can get time to myself and listen to a podcast, and there's more podcasts I want to listen to than I have time for, or I can do it with my spouse and have a chat. Similar to having a chat while walking, some form of mild activity makes conversations flow better than just sitting on a couch and looking out the window, or at the wall.

If I had a dishwasher I would have to find space in my kitchen for it, and it's just one more tech thing that will need replacing one day and end up in landfill.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Sylly on June 30, 2015, 09:50:40 AM
Those who say no pre-rinsing. does it still apply if you only run the dw 1-2 times a week?
And when you say 'newer' dws, how new?

I always pre-rinse to avoid the dried out gunk, and also because my dw appears to be fairly old (maybe 15-20yrs old). But I suppose it may be worth doing an experiment where I don't pre-rinse and see what happens. Worst that can happen is I have to rewash it by hand...


Yes, I only run the dishwasher a couple of times a week unless I'm on a batch cooking tear. The dishwasher's from 2014, and it's not super expensive brand (a Whirlpool).

Just wanted to update: I did try running a couple of loads with no pre-rinsing, and the dishes came out clean! This is on a 19 year old Whirlpool, and some dishes that's been sitting dirty for 4 days or so. Thank you for giving me the kick I needed to save some water, a bit of soap, and especially time!
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: justajane on June 30, 2015, 03:44:36 PM
I don't mind hand washing, but in our house it's the sheer volume of dishes that makes this harder. We have three kids, and I would go crazy without a dishwasher long term. Sure, it's not necessary, but it is sure as hell is more convenient.

FWIW, we generate enough dishes to run it almost everyday.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: SweetLife on July 01, 2015, 08:16:07 AM
I timed myself doing dishes one day just to see how long it really takes ... 5 minutes (taking my time)... full sink full - and that is dried and put away ... my husband loves doing dishes and hates to see them sitting there so I guess we are a good "dishes-doing" match lol... no electric dishwashers here
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: RunHappy on July 01, 2015, 08:22:38 AM
I don't understand it either. Even if washing by hand takes only 5 minutes, it is 5 minutes more than I spend on the dishes.

On the surface it may seem that simple but reality is probably different than that. 

Here are the current steps that I could take if I were to use my dishwasher system as applied by many.  (and believe me I have seen this exact process many times ---frightening really)

1.  take dishes to sink
2. take pots/pan/sheets to sink
3. rinse dishes and utensils
4. turn and open dishwasher
5. find that it is full of washed dishes
6.  bend over and pick up a few dishes
7. turn
8.  walk 3 steps to counter
9.  Reach up and open cabinet
10 stretch to put clean dishes up
11.  turn
12.  return 3 steps to DW
13.  Repeat steps steps  6  -- 12 for 5-7 rotaions (fuck I'm exhausted already)
14.  Finally put the first dish in
15.  begin loading dishwasher by turning to right, bending and loading,  bending up,  turning to left
16. repeat step 15 4-6 times.
17.  Bend to open cabinet below sink
18. locate DW soap (because no one keeps it out)
19.  Turn to the right in a bent position
20.  Pour or load soap into DW
21.  Turn to left
22.  Return soap
23. Close cabinet
24.  turn to right in bent position again
25.  Close DW
26.  Push various buttons or turn knobs on DW
27.  Turn to left
28.  Your water has been running and is hot now.
28.5 Rinse pots and pans
29.  reach for soap (I keep mine out)
30.  Add soap to big pan
31.  Return soap
32.  Hand wash big pan with a sponge
32.  Hand wash other pots etc..
33.  Rinse said pots and pans turning to your right each time and placing them on the counter
34.  rinse sink with sponge and water.
35.  either wait for pots to dry or do several steps to retrieve dish towel and hand dry them
36.  After the pans and pots are dry do the whole twirl, walk, bend deal to put them in the bottom of your cabinets.
37.  Repeat 36 at least twice (shit I'm really tired now and I haven't even wiped down the stove or counter tops yet.
38.  You've done a good job on steps 1-37 so far. 
39.  3 hours later everyone wants a snack so you make a few snack plates and some drinks
40.  Crap more dishes and glasses and the DW is full of wet drying dishes (because we don't run the heat to save energy)
41.  Well shit,  you're not a let them sit in the sink sorta person so it is on to freaking hand washing the dishes and hand drying and repeating the whole twist, walk, open, reach deal.   
42.  Seems your finished with your dish washing duty.
43.  Whoops,  You forgot,  company is coming tomorrow so you want your DW empty.
44. well heck they are dry enough finally
45.  Repeat the whole steps 6-13 again.
46.  Thank the lord Jesus you are finally done having the Dish Washer wash your dishes.   

I'm sure some of you either add or have fewer steps on many occasions but I'm not kidding when I say I have seen this ballet in most homes. 

Tomorrow ---

Bob W's New Improved 10 Step Dish Washing Management System is Explained

It could save you 30 steps per day,  prevent repetitive movement back injuries and free up over 3,600 lifetime hours of your future time from the drudgeries of automatic dishwashing.  (your future self will thank you)

It is an entire system and new way about thinking of your dish cleaning management.  It was designed in a partnership between NASA, Chipotle and Elon Musk  so be prepared to be shaken to your core.

Love this breakout!
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on July 01, 2015, 08:31:42 AM
My pleasure
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Boganvillia on July 03, 2015, 11:34:50 PM
100 replies on washing dishes. 

I know! I noticed this and thought 'surely they've all gone off topic'. But, no.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: travelbug on July 06, 2015, 05:03:29 PM
I enjoyed tetris as a child, so I get some kind of weird satisfaction from loading the dishwasher, like tetris for adults.

Me too! I aim for optimal stacking results each time. It drives DH crazy when I restack after he has put stuff in. I just cannot understand how he cannot see the patterns...LOL

I am in camp dishwasher.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Mrs.LC on July 06, 2015, 05:35:29 PM
I don't understand it either. Even if washing by hand takes only 5 minutes, it is 5 minutes more than I spend on the dishes.

On the surface it may seem that simple but reality is probably different than that. 

Here are the current steps that I could take if I were to use my dishwasher system as applied by many.  (and believe me I have seen this exact process many times ---frightening really)

1.  take dishes to sink
2. take pots/pan/sheets to sink
3. rinse dishes and utensils
4. turn and open dishwasher
5. find that it is full of washed dishes
6.  bend over and pick up a few dishes
7. turn
8.  walk 3 steps to counter
9.  Reach up and open cabinet
10 stretch to put clean dishes up
11.  turn
12.  return 3 steps to DW
13.  Repeat steps steps  6  -- 12 for 5-7 rotaions (fuck I'm exhausted already)
14.  Finally put the first dish in
15.  begin loading dishwasher by turning to right, bending and loading,  bending up,  turning to left
16. repeat step 15 4-6 times.
17.  Bend to open cabinet below sink
18. locate DW soap (because no one keeps it out)
19.  Turn to the right in a bent position
20.  Pour or load soap into DW
21.  Turn to left
22.  Return soap
23. Close cabinet
24.  turn to right in bent position again
25.  Close DW
26.  Push various buttons or turn knobs on DW
27.  Turn to left
28.  Your water has been running and is hot now.
28.5 Rinse pots and pans
29.  reach for soap (I keep mine out)
30.  Add soap to big pan
31.  Return soap
32.  Hand wash big pan with a sponge
32.  Hand wash other pots etc..
33.  Rinse said pots and pans turning to your right each time and placing them on the counter
34.  rinse sink with sponge and water.
35.  either wait for pots to dry or do several steps to retrieve dish towel and hand dry them
36.  After the pans and pots are dry do the whole twirl, walk, bend deal to put them in the bottom of your cabinets.
37.  Repeat 36 at least twice (shit I'm really tired now and I haven't even wiped down the stove or counter tops yet.
38.  You've done a good job on steps 1-37 so far. 
39.  3 hours later everyone wants a snack so you make a few snack plates and some drinks
40.  Crap more dishes and glasses and the DW is full of wet drying dishes (because we don't run the heat to save energy)
41.  Well shit,  you're not a let them sit in the sink sorta person so it is on to freaking hand washing the dishes and hand drying and repeating the whole twist, walk, open, reach deal.   
42.  Seems your finished with your dish washing duty.
43.  Whoops,  You forgot,  company is coming tomorrow so you want your DW empty.
44. well heck they are dry enough finally
45.  Repeat the whole steps 6-13 again.
46.  Thank the lord Jesus you are finally done having the Dish Washer wash your dishes.   

I'm sure some of you either add or have fewer steps on many occasions but I'm not kidding when I say I have seen this ballet in most homes. 

Tomorrow ---

Bob W's New Improved 10 Step Dish Washing Management System is Explained

It could save you 30 steps per day,  prevent repetitive movement back injuries and free up over 3,600 lifetime hours of your future time from the drudgeries of automatic dishwashing.  (your future self will thank you)

It is an entire system and new way about thinking of your dish cleaning management.  It was designed in a partnership between NASA, Chipotle and Elon Musk  so be prepared to be shaken to your core.

Bob, you need to work on your efficiency. Try this:

1. Put dirty dishes in dishwasher and the ones you will wash by hand in the sink.
2. When dishwasher is full, add soap and turn it on.
3. When the dishwasher has finished, open to air dry.
4. Put the dishes away.

See how simple it is??

Sorry to mention it but you forgot a step. After step #25 when you close the DW the next step should be to hunt down your reading glasses so you can see what buttons to push to turn it on.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: cchrissyy on July 06, 2015, 08:16:05 PM
I'm one of those people who uses the dishwasher for plates, glasses, and flatware, and handwashes everything else. 
It takes me 10 minutes and I only do it 3x per week.  Nothing like 30 min per day.
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on July 07, 2015, 07:11:56 AM
I don't understand it either. Even if washing by hand takes only 5 minutes, it is 5 minutes more than I spend on the dishes.

On the surface it may seem that simple but reality is probably different than that. 

Here are the current steps that I could take if I were to use my dishwasher system as applied by many.  (and believe me I have seen this exact process many times ---frightening really)

1.  take dishes to sink
2. take pots/pan/sheets to sink
3. rinse dishes and utensils
4. turn and open dishwasher
5. find that it is full of washed dishes
6.  bend over and pick up a few dishes
7. turn
8.  walk 3 steps to counter
9.  Reach up and open cabinet
10 stretch to put clean dishes up
11.  turn
12.  return 3 steps to DW
13.  Repeat steps steps  6  -- 12 for 5-7 rotaions (fuck I'm exhausted already)
14.  Finally put the first dish in
15.  begin loading dishwasher by turning to right, bending and loading,  bending up,  turning to left
16. repeat step 15 4-6 times.
17.  Bend to open cabinet below sink
18. locate DW soap (because no one keeps it out)
19.  Turn to the right in a bent position
20.  Pour or load soap into DW
21.  Turn to left
22.  Return soap
23. Close cabinet
24.  turn to right in bent position again
25.  Close DW
26.  Push various buttons or turn knobs on DW
27.  Turn to left
28.  Your water has been running and is hot now.
28.5 Rinse pots and pans
29.  reach for soap (I keep mine out)
30.  Add soap to big pan
31.  Return soap
32.  Hand wash big pan with a sponge
32.  Hand wash other pots etc..
33.  Rinse said pots and pans turning to your right each time and placing them on the counter
34.  rinse sink with sponge and water.
35.  either wait for pots to dry or do several steps to retrieve dish towel and hand dry them
36.  After the pans and pots are dry do the whole twirl, walk, bend deal to put them in the bottom of your cabinets.
37.  Repeat 36 at least twice (shit I'm really tired now and I haven't even wiped down the stove or counter tops yet.
38.  You've done a good job on steps 1-37 so far. 
39.  3 hours later everyone wants a snack so you make a few snack plates and some drinks
40.  Crap more dishes and glasses and the DW is full of wet drying dishes (because we don't run the heat to save energy)
41.  Well shit,  you're not a let them sit in the sink sorta person so it is on to freaking hand washing the dishes and hand drying and repeating the whole twist, walk, open, reach deal.   
42.  Seems your finished with your dish washing duty.
43.  Whoops,  You forgot,  company is coming tomorrow so you want your DW empty.
44. well heck they are dry enough finally
45.  Repeat the whole steps 6-13 again.
46.  Thank the lord Jesus you are finally done having the Dish Washer wash your dishes.   

I'm sure some of you either add or have fewer steps on many occasions but I'm not kidding when I say I have seen this ballet in most homes. 

Tomorrow ---

Bob W's New Improved 10 Step Dish Washing Management System is Explained

It could save you 30 steps per day,  prevent repetitive movement back injuries and free up over 3,600 lifetime hours of your future time from the drudgeries of automatic dishwashing.  (your future self will thank you)

It is an entire system and new way about thinking of your dish cleaning management.  It was designed in a partnership between NASA, Chipotle and Elon Musk  so be prepared to be shaken to your core.

Bob, you need to work on your efficiency. Try this:

1. Put dirty dishes in dishwasher and the ones you will wash by hand in the sink.
2. When dishwasher is full, add soap and turn it on.
3. When the dishwasher has finished, open to air dry.
4. Put the dishes away.

See how simple it is??

Sorry to mention it but you forgot a step. After step #25 when you close the DW the next step should be to hunt down your reading glasses so you can see what buttons to push to turn it on.
Thanks for catching that!   
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Mrs.LC on July 07, 2015, 08:37:15 PM
The reading glasses part is a vital step. Was trying to turn on my son's dishwasher this weekend and I couldn't read anything on the front panel. The dishwasher is stainless steel and the glare in the kitchen was just right that the buttons were not readable. Under the sink was a bottle that said "DAWN" on the label. I could read that just fine
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Bob W on July 09, 2015, 01:04:46 PM
The reading glasses part is a vital step. Was trying to turn on my son's dishwasher this weekend and I couldn't read anything on the front panel. The dishwasher is stainless steel and the glare in the kitchen was just right that the buttons were not readable. Under the sink was a bottle that said "DAWN" on the label. I could read that just fine

Yes definitely "Dawn!"  That stuff rocks.   A little dab will do ya.     

 So as this thread progressed I have been paying more attention to our household dishwashing habits.   It appears I was totally wrong about this all.   The best thing to do is to have a good wife that either hand or dishwashers you dishes.   It appears I have been sliding in this category.   I typically do 90% of the cooking, grocery shopping and menuing.   I'm not opposed to the dishes but it appears DW likes them taken care of straight after dinner while I prefer to let them soak until whenever.    So I have now figured out that she takes care of the dishes 85% of the time.   So she can choose to do them however she likes.

Now if I could only get her to shop and cook?
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: RunHappy on July 09, 2015, 01:14:04 PM

Now if I could only get her to shop and cook?

Pick your battles :)
Title: Re: Dishwasher vs Hand Washing
Post by: Mrs.LC on July 10, 2015, 08:10:28 AM

Now if I could only get her to shop and cook?

Pick your battles :)
Geez I must be in the "exceptional" category of wives - I cook, shop, and do the dishes.