Die Broke Or Make The Kids Happy?

[JustPlainBill]

Just a generic question.

Option 1: Buy a house/condo on one of the Hawaiian Islands, blow all my cash (current and future), and my Boss (wife) and I get our ashes planted in the Pacific off the coast off of Oahu/Maui/Kauai.

Option 2: Stay put in the Midwest USA, in one of of the crappiest states in the area (Illinois), but my crotchfruit inherits all my dollars.  And our corpses are frozen 6 months of every year.

The Mrs or the Kids.  My choice is the Mrs.  She's the one that I swore an oath in front of (bad grammar, I know) on my wedding day. 

Kids should be supported until a certain age, then get the hell out of my house and get on with YOUR life.

[James]

Generic answer:


Non of the above

[Clean Shaven]

The Mrs or the Kids.  My choice is the Mrs.  She's the one that I swore an oath in front of (bad grammar, I know) on my wedding day. 

Kids should be supported until a certain age, then get the hell out of my house and get on with YOUR life.

I agree with you on this.  We raise the kids, then they need to get out and make it on their own.  I do not see my obligation as a parent as providing them $$$$$ for life.

YMMV, of course.  There's no right or wrong on this.

[ephillipsme]

A while back when my parents retired, they said to the kids, there isn't going to be anything left we are going to live to the fullest. I was all behind them.  Blow the money, just not too quickly.

[2527]

Use the money sensibly in the pursuit of happiness.   You'll enjoy yourself, set a good example, and there will probably be some money left over. 

Maybe instead of Hawaii, find something cost efficient in Florida...

[gt7152b]

How do you know when you and the Mrs. will die? There is alot of variation in there. If you live it up too soon you'll run out of money. If you are too conservative you'll leave too much on the table. Why not just plan to live off your returns and cut into the principal of your nest egg a little more as you age. You'll still end up leaving something behind if you do it right. It's up to you whether that goes to your kids, other relations, friends, charity, or monument to your badass self.

[HazelStone]

I hope you're not relying on them as a backstop if you run out of money...

[Pigeon]

I agree with those who say use it sensibly.  I don't need to have a lavish retirement.  I'm going to enjoy it and getting to the absolute lowest annual expense isn't my goal.  But I have too many family members who have lived past 95 to think blowing it all is a great idea. 

If there's something left over for the kids to help out with the grandkids' education, that would be lovely.  I don't share the "kick them out the door the day they turn 18" mentality that many people here have.

[golden1]

"Crotchfruit"  ugh I hate that term.

Don't do either.  My parents chose a similar scenario to option 1 and I ended up bailing them out when things started going wrong. 

Option 2 is no good because you are going to grow increasingly resentful of the kids if you keep the mindset you currently have.  Forget Hawaii and move somewhere in the continental US that is hot and cheap.  Or stay in IL and travel a lot and leave less to your kids.  Giving your kids your money grudgingly is pretty shitty. 

[Syonyk]

Getting out of IL is a no brainer. :)

But there are lots of cheap, awesome places to live in the continental US.

[Cougar]

what about option 3 ?


move somewhere you like in the lower 48, thats as pretty(florida) and save some money over hawaii and also have better travel expenses back.

[sol]

Why do you think giving your kids a large inheritance would make them happy?  Evidence seems to suggest the wealthiest inheritors are no better off, and sometimes much worse off, than other people. 

I'm pretty sure I would be an even bigger asshole today had I been born wealthy, with no need to ever create or contribute to society in any way.

[RH]

My parents chose option 1. They had this mindset that the family would visit them all the time in Hawaii. Didn't happen as travelling is $$, etc.... They ended up moving back (to San Diego) to the family after 10 years once the first Grandkid was born. They realized they missed out on so many events by isolating themselves on an island.

They still visit Hawaii...2 weeks of the year and simply rent a condo for $100/day.

Sounds like you resent your kids though, so that could be a whole different story.

[Pigeon]

Meh, I don't think receiving a large inheritance would make me sad.  I wouldn't squander it on hookers and blow.  But it sure would be nice to use to fund my kids' higher education, and it would be great to have the extra invested.

[Chuck]

I think that Bill is presenting a false choice, but within the bounds of the options he provided I agree with his decision.

My children should be successful on their own. If me dying is what saves them financially then both they and I have failed.

[ltt]

We need more information.  How old are you and your wife?  How old are your children? 

I think this post really ties in somewhat with the tropical retirement thread.  Lot of good comments on that thread.  I loved Hawaii when we vacationed there and would love to go back, would even love to buy property there.  However, it is SOOOOO expensive.  I do believe there are some statistics that many people don't make it there past 2-3 years because of just how expensive it really is.  And many people get to the point where they need to come back to the mainland for breaks.

The other thing I've really noticed is that as I've gotten older I'm absolutely detesting the cold, so definitely understand the need to want to move somewhere warmer.  But I think you've received some excellent advice.  Set aside lots of money for travel and go there a few times a year.  You may get to the point where you believe that the length of travelling there you just don't want to face again----it is a loonnnngggggg flight.  And, if you are so inclined, you may be able to find a place here in the continental US, that is also very pretty (I'm not sure where that would be because I'm not sure anyplace surpasses the beauty of Hawaii) that offer a warm climate and low cost of living.

A woman here in our community was telling me a few years back that her mother up and moved to Hawaii.  The mom was a nurse and was able to get a position right away, but was renting out a room because the rent was so high.  We talked about if she was going to go visit her mom, and she said it was just so expensive for her and her family to fly to see her.  Lots of things to consider before making this decision.

[mohawkbrah]

option 3, when you kick the bucket wire me all your remaining capital.


just a thought...


;)

[justajane]

I don't know if you're exaggerating for dramatic effect, but your attitude and language towards your kids and your current life/state exudes so much unhappiness. I would work on fixing that first, because wherever you go, there you are, even if it's in one of the most beautiful places on earth.

[Icecreamarsenal]

Just curious, do you really care where your corpse is buried?

[MoneyCat]

Option 3:  Move to Nevada so you can get a retirement house for super cheap, pay no state income tax, enjoy lots of great Cirque du Soleil shows and cheap buffets, and enjoy beautiful weather for nine months out of the year and then go visit your kids in Illinois in the summertime.  That's pretty much my retirement plan.

[Syonyk]

Give Vegas a few years to figure out water. Lake Mead is not in good shape and is getting worse.

[trailrated]

Funny, the tone made me laugh and think of this gem from The Onion. I think you can find happiness wherever you are if you have the right mind set. Best of luck.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-thinking-about-just-packing-up-and-making-exac,38342/

[Retire-Canada]

I hope you're not relying on them as a backstop if you run out of money...

Why not?

If you get them started in life for 20yrs+ it would seem reasonable for them to help you out a bit on the back end if you needed it.

If my parents needed some help in their old age I wouldn't begrudge them the assistance and I was independant at 17.

-- Vik

[Bob W]

I would chose the 5th option and grow some Mustachian balls. 

I don't think you've been following very closely. Here as we advocate having a great life on less money.

So here are the suggestions -

Sell the house and invest the balance.  Find an inexpensive apartment or condo on the outskirtsa but within 30 miles of the kiddos.

Then do some travel hacking (see richmondsavers.com and milesdividendmd.com).    You could probably slow travel for 6 months per year with less than 5 K out of pocket.    Return for xmas and summer months to spend as much time with grandbabies as you like.    Offer to use your rewards miles to fly the kids to visit you in Cancun for long weekends in the winter. 

You will hate Hawaii as a living destination.   People get island fever pretty quickly and bored of the unchanging weather.  People from the Midwest are especially hated by many natives.   (they have a special term for you and it isn't a term of endearment) 

Your life could be more interesting.   Your relationships enhanced and you could end up leaving (or gifting over time) a much bigger nest egg. 

So Travel the warm world for virtually free,  invest wisely,  work on your relationship.   You really can have it all if you are willing to stretch a little. 

I can understand your desire to get out of that hell holes though!

[FatCat]

Option 1 potential outcome: Run out of money before you die. Expect kids to support your retirement. I've been to Hawaii. I like visiting but I wouldn't want to permanently live someplace that is so isolated from the mainland. Do you not want to visit the kids? Would they visit you? It's likely you won't see each other often.

Option 2 potential outcome: You'll resent that you're giving up your desired retirement dream for their sake if you see it that way. Also if they're anything like some of my friends and know they're going to inherit a lot of money, they'll intentionally do nothing to accumulate wealth on their own, then once they get the inheritance they'll blow through it like it's nothing.


There isn't really enough information to know if either of those even apply to you or your kids. This is just my generic opinion based on my own life experiences.

[HazelStone]

I hope you're not relying on them as a backstop if you run out of money...

Why not?

If you get them started in life for 20yrs+ it would seem reasonable for them to help you out a bit on the back end if you needed it.

If my parents needed some help in their old age I wouldn't begrudge them the assistance and I was independant at 17.

-- Vik

Without delving into family dynamics... Helping them out with their Medicare supplement or the light bill when money is tight is one thing... but full time custodial care is a different beast. I've seen people who don't save much and consciously plan on their kids taking care of them WHEN they run out of money. People point to the Asian cultures as an example for taking care of the elderly- they conveniently forget that those same cultures often front more aid in early adulthood- in the very least letting unmarried adult children remain in the home to save for when they do strike out on their own. The Western ideal is basically GTFO as soon as possible. You are grown; you're on your own. Fine. But then it cuts both ways. For many, with what money and what TIME is there to do full time custodial care? I sure as hell am not a career homemaker.

[OldPro]

As far as I know, there is only one way to insure you die broke but NOT BEFORE.  I have seen it advocated in regards to questions about leaving an inheritance or not.

The answer is to sell everything you own, cash in all investments and buy an annuity with the bundle.  That puts all your assets in one place providing one guaranteed income till exactly the day you die.  No guesswork involved. 

Not my own preferred option at all but some people do indeed advocate that path.

[JN2]

OldPro, my reasoning exactly. I'm 57 years old and drawing down a stash until age 66 when all my (5!) pensions will have kicked in. I am renting now and have no plans to own property. I will live royally ($3k per month) until I die broke.

John

[partgypsy]

I would chose the 5th option and grow some Mustachian balls. 

I don't think you've been following very closely. Here as we advocate having a great life on less money.

So here are the suggestions -

Sell the house and invest the balance.  Find an inexpensive apartment or condo on the outskirtsa but within 30 miles of the kiddos.

Then do some travel hacking (see richmondsavers.com and milesdividendmd.com).    You could probably slow travel for 6 months per year with less than 5 K out of pocket.    Return for xmas and summer months to spend as much time with grandbabies as you like.    Offer to use your rewards miles to fly the kids to visit you in Cancun for long weekends in the winter. 

You will hate Hawaii as a living destination.   People get island fever pretty quickly and bored of the unchanging weather.  People from the Midwest are especially hated by many natives.   (they have a special term for you and it isn't a term of endearment) 

Your life could be more interesting.   Your relationships enhanced and you could end up leaving (or gifting over time) a much bigger nest egg. 

So Travel the warm world for virtually free,  invest wisely,  work on your relationship.   You really can have it all if you are willing to stretch a little. 

I can understand your desire to get out of that hell holes though!

Ditto. The question is a false dichotomy, you can improve the quality of your life but also still have a relationship with your kids. Unless you chose not to (I mean if you are relocating to somewhere really remote because you do NOT want anything to do with your family, that's a different story) And heck the rest of my family lives in IL! I don't think they consider it a hell hole. Fall and spring are beautiful (but winters DO suck). My aunt and uncle have a condo in a nice location in Florida. They live in IL but spend 2 months of winter in FL. I imagine that's a heck of a lot cheaper than relocating to Hawaii.

[asauer]

I have a dream of leaving a nice chunk to my kids (assuming they're not bums in adulthood).  Having said that, I don't care if my parents leave me $0.  I want them to enjoy what they've earned.  Of course, I'm a responsible adult and can support myself.

[cube.37]

I hope you're not relying on them as a backstop if you run out of money...

Why not?

If you get them started in life for 20yrs+ it would seem reasonable for them to help you out a bit on the back end if you needed it.

If my parents needed some help in their old age I wouldn't begrudge them the assistance and I was independant at 17.

-- Vik

Without delving into family dynamics... Helping them out with their Medicare supplement or the light bill when money is tight is one thing... but full time custodial care is a different beast. I've seen people who don't save much and consciously plan on their kids taking care of them WHEN they run out of money. People point to the Asian cultures as an example for taking care of the elderly- they conveniently forget that those same cultures often front more aid in early adulthood- in the very least letting unmarried adult children remain in the home to save for when they do strike out on their own. The Western ideal is basically GTFO as soon as possible. You are grown; you're on your own. Fine. But then it cuts both ways. For many, with what money and what TIME is there to do full time custodial care? I sure as hell am not a career homemaker.

I come from a korean upbringing. There definitely is the assumption that children will take care of the adult until he/she passes away. My parents invested quite a bit in me (lessons & college) while sacrificing everything (no shopping, no spending time with friends), so it wouldn't make sense if I wasn't willing to give unconditional support when they are older. Granted, I would be very upset if they started carelessly spending money expecting that I care for them when they run out. If that became a habit, I'd have to go the monthly allowance route.

Unfortunately, with the "westernization" of korean (and chinese from what I've seen and heard during my visits) culture, parents are finding that despite investing everything in their kids, some children are growing up with the mentality that the parents should take care of themselves - leaving the parents with nothing.. I put westernization in quotes because that's what people call it, but I think it could be more a side-effect of urbanization/mega-city attitudes.


Getting back on topic, I think you do have to realize that children will visit you far less frequently than you expect. My sisters and I all live in the east coast states (in america), and traveling to visit my parents in korea is almost always too expensive and logistically impossible. Fly 30+ hours roundtrip for a long weekend?? I dont think so..They have the "once you graduate college, you're on your own" mindset - but will continue to pay for our Christmas flights to korea until our incomes are substantial - otherwise there is no way we'd all meet up in korea for Christmas. This is obviously not cheap, and has been one of the biggest reasons they are considering moving to the US, despite Seoul having its own perks.

[Cpa Cat]

Do what you want with your money. Your kids don't need an inheritance to be happy.

If Hawaii is where you want to be, then go to Hawaii.

If you don't like it, move somewhere else.

Also - people need to lighten up. The original post made me laugh. I assume I laughed because I'm childless and thus haven't been robbed of my sense of humor regarding the word "crotchfruit."

[cube.37]

Oh and one other thing. If you do plan on leaving money, maybe you can put it in a trust that they can't touch for 10-20 years. That's what I told my parents to do if they decided to leave me and my siblings any money. That way, they have the satisfaction of knowing that the money will benefit their grandchildren.

[Miss Prim]

Well, I plan on leaving as much to my kids as I can and still have an awesome retirement!  They are great kids and I think down the road are going to need more that we do, so I would like it to be their for them.  I have told them to also think about passing down their money to their kids, too.  Sort of a family inheritance.  Then no one has to struggle if they don't get decent jobs.  I don't expect my kids to really need a bunch as they are both doing well and they learned about saving and living frugally from us.

The think I am most concerned with is having enough to not burden them with our care.  My mom and dad actually think that we are going to support them in their old age and they have been busy retiring way to early and spending every last dime.  I finally had to tell my mother to quite spending money as she will need it down the road.  I intend to enjoy my own retirement and will help them with finding a facility for my dad (dementia), but I will not fund it.

There is a lot of bad blood between my dad and I, so he will be on Medicaid if he has to.  I really feel that kids should not have to support their parents in old age.  You only have so many years to enjoy retirement and taking care of parents who spent their money like there was no end to it is not something I am willing to do, so I don't think my kids should have to either!

                                                                   Miss Prim

[mm1970]

I would chose the 5th option and grow some Mustachian balls. 

I don't think you've been following very closely. Here as we advocate having a great life on less money.

So here are the suggestions -

Sell the house and invest the balance.  Find an inexpensive apartment or condo on the outskirtsa but within 30 miles of the kiddos.

Then do some travel hacking (see richmondsavers.com and milesdividendmd.com).    You could probably slow travel for 6 months per year with less than 5 K out of pocket.    Return for xmas and summer months to spend as much time with grandbabies as you like.    Offer to use your rewards miles to fly the kids to visit you in Cancun for long weekends in the winter. 

You will hate Hawaii as a living destination.   People get island fever pretty quickly and bored of the unchanging weather.  People from the Midwest are especially hated by many natives.   (they have a special term for you and it isn't a term of endearment) 

Your life could be more interesting.   Your relationships enhanced and you could end up leaving (or gifting over time) a much bigger nest egg. 

So Travel the warm world for virtually free,  invest wisely,  work on your relationship.   You really can have it all if you are willing to stretch a little. 

I can understand your desire to get out of that hell holes though!

You know Bob W. is a smart one.  My FIL is retired. He lives in a condo with his girlfriend and her 95 year old mother during the summer in the northeast.

They vacation for 5 months in FL in the winter.  Condo down there. I  think the girlfriend owns the condo in FL and they rent in northeast?  Not sure.  But you could then air-BNB the condo for when you aren't there, and make money on it.

[sunday]

Read "The Millionaire Next Door". Giving your kids economic life support won't make them thrive.

[sunday]

I hope you're not relying on them as a backstop if you run out of money...

Why not?

If you get them started in life for 20yrs+ it would seem reasonable for them to help you out a bit on the back end if you needed it.

If my parents needed some help in their old age I wouldn't begrudge them the assistance and I was independant at 17.

-- Vik

Because nobody asks to be born. That was a decision all your own. Your kids don't owe you anything. If you're lucky, and you've taught them kindness and a generous spirit, they will hopefully want to help  you in times of need. But they certainly should not be an economic backstop.

[irishbear99]

I hope you're not relying on them as a backstop if you run out of money...

Why not?

If you get them started in life for 20yrs+ it would seem reasonable for them to help you out a bit on the back end if you needed it.

If my parents needed some help in their old age I wouldn't begrudge them the assistance and I was independant at 17.

-- Vik

Because nobody asks to be born. That was a decision all your own. Your kids don't owe you anything. If you're lucky, and you've taught them kindness and a generous spirit, they will hopefully want to help  you in times of need. But they certainly should not be an economic backstop.

+1

Children are not a retirement plan.

[RangerOne]

Kids first and foremost will be sad when your dead, normally. I don't feel like you should have to worry about how much you leave to your kids, and any kid with a strong bond to their parents will take no joy in getting an inheritance. Just  do not be so irrational as to become a financial burden.

Other than that enjoy your life and your money. If you can really afford to retire in Hawaii then by all means do it. It sounds like you think its a stretch, if you are worried about having no money left over. I would think most sound retirement plans involve high odds of having left over money. How about live somewhere else nice and take lots of trips to Hawaii if you cant afford to live there.

Sometimes visiting a place for extended periods is better than living there all the time. Your kids also may be happier to have you retire somewhere where you are easier to visit. Maybe, maybe not.

[Josiecat]

This is true.  My mom had a FABULOUS wedding ring and I always said I wanted it when she died.  Well, she died suddenly at age 59.  I did get her ring but it brings me no joy whatsoever.