Defining "Rich"

[DocMcStuffins]

As I have found MMM and others my personal definition of being rich has changed dramatically from the fancy pants house and Mercedes to the below.  I was ignorant and distracted (TV is watching other people live their lives while we don't live ours) from what I actually wanted to do with my life.  Why was I giving up all this time working from 9 to 5p thinking this was the most important part of my day when in fact the next 5p to 9a was where I could never be replaced.  When I am gone, my company and work will continue on without me as I am replaceable there but to my wife and children, I am the only one who can be her husband and their father.  It is there I am irreplaceable.  Saying that, here is my summary of being rich.

I can be rich in:
1. Time
2. Health
3. Relationships
4. Experiences
5. Wealth

Being a fat, 50 year old multi millionaire who is divorced and has a broken relationship with his children isn't having the life I want for anyone even when he is climbing the top of Everest.  I think this simple 5 can summarize a lot of blogs and books I have read over the past 10 years.  What would you add or think to this list? (a lot of things can fall into these categories like beliefs, travel, learning).  How do you summarize being rich in your life in a short list or paragraph?

[Kashmani]

My definition of "rich" is not having to work for a living.

I remember being challenged on this definition by a friend a year ago who suggested that this means by my definition someone living on a modest pension is rich. My response was "absolutely." I think someone with a $50k defined benefit pension is rich.

From this definition follows everything else. Unhealthy? Now you will have the energy to work out, bike more, and eat healthier. Divorced? Now is the time to improve yourself and make yourself more desirable. Cranky and insufferable? Now is the time to learn meditation, mindfulness, or other personality improvement tools.

Incidentally, ten years ago I thought I wanted a Mercedes. Now I just want a nap and a cup of coffee.

[frompa]

Incidentally, ten years ago I thought I wanted a Mercedes. Now I just want a nap and a cup of coffee.

The above is hilarious. 

[Spork]

My definition of rich developed during a (planned) 3 year sabbatical from work about 10 years ago:
* warm in the winter, cool in the summer, dry in the rain
* not hungry

Once I came to that definition of rich, I found I was generally much happier.

[Bajadoc]

Rich is having the life you want without having to work at a job.

[thedayisbrave]

My definition of rich developed during a (planned) 3 year sabbatical from work about 10 years ago:
* warm in the winter, cool in the summer, dry in the rain
* not hungry

Once I came to that definition of rich, I found I was generally much happier.

I'll admit, I've struggled with this sometimes.  I'm an achiever.  When I got out of college, I saw myself working in business but almost didn't pursue it because I feared I would end up consumed with greed once I got a taste of it, like some of my peers around me have (I attended a very expensive high school).

Thankfully, I found this forum, and realized this was the meaning I was searching for but couldn't quite articulate.  I am still ambitious, and I now run a few businesses.  Whenever I feel like I want more (and its becoming a very rare phenomenon for me now), I remind myself of the above and am immediately hit with this glittery fucking rainbow of well-being and gratefulness. 

It's all about perspective. 

[Dr. Pepper]

Being a fat, 50 year old multi millionaire who is divorced and has a broken relationship with his children isn't having the life I want for anyone even when he is climbing the top of Everest. 

This is kind of a straw man argument, what about the people who are wealthy, physically fit and happy? Since 'rich' is a subjective thing I guess you can define it however you want and still be correct. I could say I'm rich because I have oxygen to breathe or because I even exist in the first place, even though that took 0 effort on my part to produce. If I walked around believing I was the richest person on the planet because of the for-mentioned I guess in my own mind I would be happy, but it would be because I had created a delusion.

Anyway my definition of rich is having enough saved to live the way I live now off the income produced by the savings.  To put in quantifiable terms, about 70k a year of passive income.

[Spork]

My definition of rich developed during a (planned) 3 year sabbatical from work about 10 years ago:
* warm in the winter, cool in the summer, dry in the rain
* not hungry

Once I came to that definition of rich, I found I was generally much happier.

I'll admit, I've struggled with this sometimes.  I'm an achiever.  When I got out of college, I saw myself working in business but almost didn't pursue it because I feared I would end up consumed with greed once I got a taste of it, like some of my peers around me have (I attended a very expensive high school).

Thankfully, I found this forum, and realized this was the meaning I was searching for but couldn't quite articulate.  I am still ambitious, and I now run a few businesses.  Whenever I feel like I want more (and its becoming a very rare phenomenon for me now), I remind myself of the above and am immediately hit with this glittery fucking rainbow of well-being and gratefulness. 

It's all about perspective.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting more.  The perspective comes in realizing that once you get past the basics, it takes a huge amount of "more stuff" to get a small amount of "more happiness".   That doesn't mean "never aim for more".  It just means you should try accurately to gauge the amount of happiness you'll get.  In our house we call it "cost per wow."

[big_slacker]

You have to separate financially rich from leading a fulfilling life. I have a riding buddy who is a multi millionaire. Ferraris, porsches, house on the water, waterskiing boat. Badass seven cycles custom that he rides to work most days. Kids getting done with HS and going off to high school, happy marriage. He bought his dad mostly out of the family business and grew it to great financial success. Happy, healthy, wealthy, livin the dream!

My old boss was also a multi millionaire. 12k sq ft house, several planes, hanger, also a waterski boat/dock, porsche turbo and blah blah. Underpaid employees, would threaten to sue people or hire PI's to dig up dirt on competitors, etc. One of the most miserable, miserly douchebags I've known. Not surprisingly he's estranged from his baby mama and I would guess probably his daughter as well. I always hoped he would wake up and turn it around but that's his battle to fight.

So yeah, no need to paint a picture of the money making people what they are. Money is a multiplier, simple as that. You'll be more of what you are.

To answer the OP, rich benchmark for me is $1m in liquid assets with no non-business debt.

To answer the greater Q, having a life with purpose, having strong, loving relationships and living meaningfully towards those things is a good life.

[Retired To Win]

My definition of "rich" is not having to work for a living. ..

Amen.  I would expand that to say not having to work for a living, having more money coming in than going out, and not being dependent on a government handout to manage it.  :D

[Rural]

Rich is having enough to eat. Super rich is knowing I'll have enough tomorrow. Damn, I've made the big time!


Note: the above may seem flippant, but it's exactly how I feel. I know what hungry is.

[libertarian4321]

"Rich" is a moving target.

When I hit $10k, I thought I was rich (having grown up with no money).  When I hit 100k, and could take YEARS off from work, I was sure I was rich.

When I hit $1 Million, and knew I was financially independent, I felt fantastically rich.

Now that I'm at $3 Million+, I wonder if I really have enough. :)

[marty998]

Once saw a definition of uber rich as "one who is able to live off the interest on their interest".

Otherwise I agree with big_slacker

[TrMama]

My definition of rich developed during a (planned) 3 year sabbatical from work about 10 years ago:
* warm in the winter, cool in the summer, dry in the rain
* not hungry

Once I came to that definition of rich, I found I was generally much happier.

This is similar to my definition. I have this conversation with my kids sometimes when they ask for something and I say no because we don't want to spend the money on it (aka we can't afford it). They ask if we're poor and I reply that we're not poor, we're rich. We may not be able to afford X gizmo or Y trip, but we'll always have enough to eat, a safe, warm place to live and them outgrowing their shoes is just a minor inconvenience. Compared to many, many people in the world, we're doing fantastic.

[Chris22]

Rich: you have a high relative income
Wealthy: you have a lot of money

It's possible to be either (hard to be wealthy and not rich, unless it's all illiquid like real estate) or both.

[Schaefer Light]

My definition of "rich" is not having to work for a living. ..

Amen.  I would expand that to say not having to work for a living, having more money coming in than going out, and not being dependent on a government handout to manage it.  :D

Damn straight.  When I reach that point, I'll feel rich.

[Travis]

It's an odd definition since most people would consider someone with a yearly salary of $1MM rich, but if he's so leveraged that getting laid off for a year ruins him is he really rich?  As I'm thinking about this there seems to be two definitions - what you think of yourself and what everyone else thinks about you.  In economic and political discourse we seem to have put a couple numbers out there for what we think a rich person is, but when we peel the onion there's a lot more to it. 

Just looking at myself, I have a salaried job guaranteed for at least the next four years where I make enough to do just about anything I want.  If I wanted to buy a $50k car, I have enough money for the payments.  If I wanted to fly the family to Europe, I have the money for the trip.  Both of those two examples assume I'm not saving for retirement though.  Having that flexibility and being one of the highest earners in my extended family makes me think of myself as rich.  I think I'd definitely call myself rich if I could make those decisions without affecting my retirement in the slightest. 

Chris22's definition is probably closer to the popular opinion of rich since all most people can see is your income and your lifestyle.  Wealthy seems to be where you can do anything you want in your life and not give the first thought to how much it costs.

One of my favorite discussions is from a Chris Rock stand-up.  It has racial overtones, but his overall point had validity and was hilarious.

Chris Rock: "Shaq is rich. The white man who signs his checks is wealthy...Wealth is generational. You can't get rid of wealth.  Rich you can lose during a crazy summer and a drug habit."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdmW0rnvF_s

[Bob W]

Rich is having enough invested funds that will provide all of your offspring and grandchildren 10 million dollars per year of income at 3%.

In my case that is about 3.3 billion.   

The 10 million number is pretty in line with what it takes to live a sort of minimal rich lifestyle today.   It may not even get them in the club though. 

[Spork]

Just an observation here:

I think a lot of folks are confusing "rich" with "super rich".  Nothing wrong with the latter -- especially if you enjoy riding on Gulfstreams (and who doesn't).

The problem with this is that you're just very likely to not be satisfied.  Ever.   The number of people in the super rich club is small.  It's small enough that to me: it just doesn't matter.

For a better perspective:  Read one of Thomas Stanley's *Millionaire Next Door* books.

[Tyson]

I think for most people, being rich means being able to buy all the luxury brands you want and still have substantial savings/investments. 

I know that's that definition I had before finding MMM.  In the last few months I've been revising my views on this subject.

[Chris22]

Rich is having enough invested funds that will provide all of your offspring and grandchildren 10 million dollars per year of income at 3%.

In my case that is about 3.3 billion.   

The 10 million number is pretty in line with what it takes to live a sort of minimal rich lifestyle today.   It may not even get them in the club though.

$10M A YEAR?  Holy crap.  I think $10M is the bar for "I'd quit my job right now", personally, but certainly not PER YEAR.  Even I can't imagine spending that much.

[Psychstache]

Rich: you have a high relative income
Wealthy: you have a lot of money

It's possible to be either (hard to be wealthy and not rich, unless it's all illiquid like real estate) or both.

Reminds me of a piece from Chris Rock's stand-up.

"There a huge difference between being rich and being wealthy. For example, Shaq is rich. The dude that signs Shaq's paychecks is wealthy."

[Cranky]

"Interesting work" is part of my definition of a rich life.

[marty998]

Rich: you have a high relative income
Wealthy: you have a lot of money

It's possible to be either (hard to be wealthy and not rich, unless it's all illiquid like real estate) or both.

Reminds me of a piece from Chris Rock's stand-up.

"There a huge difference between being rich and being wealthy. For example, Shaq is rich. The dude that signs Shaq's paychecks is wealthy."

See up 5 posts (the one from Travis)

[Retired To Win]

My definition of "rich" is not having to work for a living. ..

Amen.  I would expand that to say not having to work for a living, having more money coming in than going out, and not being dependent on a government handout to manage it.  :D

Damn straight.  When I reach that point, I'll feel rich.

There's also an implied corollary: If I don't have to work for a living, then all my time is MINE to do with as I wish.  And that is really defining rich, IMHO.

[aFrugalFather]

With comparison to the average human on the earth, if you have access to a computer and leisure time to participate in these forums you are "rich"

[Thegoblinchief]

Time wealth is my biggest, so it's definitely not needing to work anymore. Time is the one resource they ain't making any more of.

[Gone Fishing]

Nobody telling me what to do.
A few friends
A few tunes
A hook in the water
Meat on the grill
Cold beer in the cooler
Somewhere decent to sleep when the meat and beer are gone.

[arebelspy]

+1 on those who pointed out that many of us use the term wealthy for this, rather than rich.

Joshua Kennon said this in the middle of an article a month or two ago, and I loved the definition so much I saved it:

Wealth is waking up and looking around saying, "There is nowhere else I would rather be, nobody else with whom I would rather be experiencing this moment, and nothing else I would rather be doing.

[trailrated]

Wealth to me is defined by how long I could continue my current lifestyle without working.