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General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: adjunctprof on April 10, 2018, 11:58:32 AM
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I love my wife (in mid-40's), but she is lazy, unmotivated, and addicted to carbs and unhealthy food like a drug addict.
My wife has always had a weight problem, but I've been supportive and tried to get her to eat healthier, go exercise, etc. None of that has worked out so far.
My wife is on high blood pressure medicine. Despite that, she was suffering from a sinus infection so she went to the walk-in clinic to get checked out and get some anti-biotics. The nurse took her blood pressure and was shocked at how high it was (i believe 180/200), and advised my wife to go to ER or urgent care and lower her blood pressure. My wife blew it off, and said she knows she has high blood pressure and is dealing with it via meds. I think the nurse's reaction was a little bit of a wake up call for her though.
Some more back story - my wife's father passed away recently from a heart attack in his late 60's, and her mom is deathly ill, constant in and out of the hospital from diabetes and a myriad of serious health issues. I don't even want to say it but I'm seriously afraid of what might happen to the mother.
Despite these recent events, my wife continues to lead a very unhealthy lifestyle. She stays up late watching Youtube / TV, goes to work but eats very unhealthy fast food, and eats a lot of carbs at home, like bread, rice, pasta, etc, with very little veggies.
In contrast, I'm extremely lean and fit, I go to the gym 4-5 times per week. I eat organic chicken, lots of green leafy veggies, hardly any carbs, and I also practice intermittent fasting to keep my blood sugar stable and insulin response high.
I've tried for 15 years to get my wife to follow my lead. I'll make healthy food for her, and she refuses to eat it, calling it "yucky". I paid for years of gym membership, thousands of dollars in fees, and personal training lessons. It's a chore to drag her to the gym. She claims she's "tired" after work, or just not feeling like going to the gym, etc.
She got motivated for a few weeks to go to the gym once per week after her father died, which was a wake up call, but then she went back to her normal routine and stopped going to the gym or trying to eat healthy.
At this time I'm deathly afraid she will have a heart attack, stroke, or some other serious health issue. I've sent her internet information on healthy eating, why intermittent fasting is good for her, why she should avoid unhealthy carbs and fast food. Nothing seems to take. She ignores what I share with her, and prefers to watch reality TV like Project Runway, Dance moms, crap like that, instead of the nutrition and healthy lifestyle information I send to her to watch.
I've sort of given up over the years, and I told her "it seems you really want to die, the unhealthy lifestyle is literally suicide for you. I'll be extremely sad if you die, but it might be better than you being a vegetable and need 24/7 care from me to take care of you." It's extremely sad thing to say, but I need to support the family and the kids, and there's no way I could give up my job to take care of her if she is unable to live a self-sufficient lifestyle.
I'm really just venting in this post. It's upsetting to see someone not care about their own health at all, and ignore all my attempts to show them and support them to a healthier lifestyle. In a way I've thrown in the towel... I guess I need to chill and figure out how I'm going to protect myself and the family financially and emotionally if she decides it's better to eat crap food and live an completely sedentary lifestyle while taking meds for all the symptoms.
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Posting to follow. My wife and I are younger, but I feel like we are in a less extreme version of your situation.
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Sorry to hear this, Prof.
I guess the only thing I can say is that after 15 years of trying, you've probably realized nothing will really change until she really wants to change.
I wish you both the very best of luck!
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Was she always like this? It sounds like you are super healthy and active and she hasn't ever been, in which case it seems odd that you would couple up having such drastic differences.
I am not a doctor, or anything, but just from what you wrote, she sounds extremely depressed and stressed out and is self medicating with food and in denial about how bad things are. Add to that possibly feeling like her spouse is judging her and hates her and finds her unattractive. So she continues to hide from the issues and keeps self medicating with food and sedentary activities like computer crap/Youtube.
It is time for a serious discussion, and that should include counseling for her individually and for you as a family.
Calling her lazy and unmotivated is not helpful. For either her or you, because you are framing all of this as a simple lifestyle change that she needs to make, when it likely stems from mental roadblocks like depression and outright fear. Got to untangle the mess in the head and brain before the body stuff makes sense.
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Was she always like this? It sounds like you are super healthy and active and she hasn't ever been, in which case it seems odd that you would couple up having such drastic differences.
I am not a doctor, or anything, but just from what you wrote, she sounds extremely depressed and stressed out and is self medicating with food and in denial about how bad things are. And likely is feeling extreme worry over her health, shame, embarrassment and like her spouse is judging her and hates her and concerned about the state of her relationship as well. So she continues to hide from the issues and keeps self medicating with food and sedentary activities like computer crap/Youtube.
It is time for a serious discussion, and that should include counseling for her individually and for you as a family.
Calling her lazy and unmotivated is not helpful. For either her or you, because you are framing all of this as a simple lifestyle change that she needs to make, when it likely stems from mental roadblocks like depression and outright fear. Got to untangle the mess in the head and brain before the body stuff makes sense.
She has gone to see counselors and theraptists before, but it is not depression or any mental issue, it is pure laziness. She much prefers to sit at home on her bed or lazy chair and watch TV than go to the gym which is "punishment and not fun".
Lazy and unmotivated is what it really comes down to. I hate going to the gym at times, but I force myself to go, and I always feel better afterwards. I've been there. There were periods (months) where I hated the thought of going to the gym, I know what it feels like. But I refuse to allow myself to wallow in self pity and laziness and avoid taking care of my health.
I don't agree about untangling the mess in the head before the body stuff makes sense. Sometimes you just got to do it, and by going to exercise, you start feeling better about yourself.
I was very shy and non-confident when I was growing up, and hated going to the gym. But once I started a routine of going, I realized over time how much better it made me feel, and cured whatever issues I had in my head.
You have to take care of the body, to take care of the mind. Anything else comes across as an excuse to do nothing.
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Posting to follow. My wife and I are younger, but I feel like we are in a less extreme version of your situation.
I wish you good luck. I literally called my wife's work, and spoke to her supervisor, and informed her of the situation. I stated that my wife's near minimum wage job is not worth her getting a heart attack or stroke over, and I'd rather my wife quit her job and deal with getting healthier full time.
My wife's supervisor is sympathetic, and said she will speak with my wife about this immediately. I'm going to be a pain in my wife's side until she decides to deal with this, one way or another. I will not allow her laziness and apathetic attitude to kill herself or destroy this family.
It is just unfathomable how people don't take care of their health. You can't buy good health with money, you have to earn it. I'd rather be broke and penniless and healthy, than be super rich and very ill. It's insanity the way people treat their bodies today.
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Sorry to hear this, Prof.
I guess the only thing I can say is that after 15 years of trying, you've probably realized nothing will really change until she really wants to change.
I wish you both the very best of luck!
thank you, it is definitely true, the only person who can change is the person him/herself. I've tried to be supportive with money, examples, and physical encouragement. It's led to some nasty fights where she acts like a child when I try to get her to go the gym. I refuse to allow her laziness and resistance to take this family down.
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How old are your children? Inspire them to live a healthy life (without referring to Mom at all) and maybe seeing them, will motivate her.
Make grocery shopping a family outing, talking about why something is going into the cart, and why something is not.
Plan on 'activities' and before long, the kids will be asking Mom to join.
Try to not let her choices be the example your kids want to copy.
I'd also investigate the 'depressed' cause too
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How old are your children? Inspire them to live a healthy life (without referring to Mom at all) and maybe seeing them, will motivate her.
Make grocery shopping a family outing, talking about why something is going into the cart, and why something is not.
Plan on 'activities' and before long, the kids will be asking Mom to join.
Try to not let her choices be the example your kids want to copy.
I'd also investigate the 'depressed' cause too
Children are early teens. They were conditioned by my wife to eat junk food, drink soda. I've been hammering them about eating real nutritious food, and it seems to be working.
The children were at Grandpa's funeral and saw how he killed himself with soda and unhealthy food, and spent their spring break in the hospital with Grandma and saw how seriously ill she is.
The children are now starting to turn away from junk food / soda and following my lead, in asking for carrots, broccoli, green leafy veggies, and healthy protein. It is a VERY encouraging sign!!! My oldest one asked if she could come with me to the gym if my wife won't come with me, I'm shocked that I'm having such a positive influence!!!
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
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If she doesn't want to change, she won't. If I were her, I might be angered by my spouse's involvement and specifically rebel against it. So, if being really invested in the process isn't working, maybe dropping it altogether will work.
Also, she might hate going to a gym. There are lots of valid reasons why people don't like gyms. The easiest way to start getting exercise is finding something you like. Maybe it's dancing, biking, hiking, SUP, yoga, or something else. Perhaps one way you can try to help her is inviting her to do some class or activity with you, that is different than just lifting weights at the gym. Or, maybe get her friends involved- invite them to do a fun exercising activity with your wife. Then it's more of a social activity than simply pumping iron with a bunch of sweaty strangers.
Health and weight loss does come down, in large part, to diet. Again, if it is not working by having you push it, maybe if she went to a nutritionist or Weight Watchers or basically ANYONE ELSE BUT YOU she might be more receptive.
Good luck!
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
If that's case, then you are only married legally and not mentally and emotionally. So try to disconnect from wanting to change her. Think of your situation as if you are already divorced. What she does with her health is her business and doesn't effect you, and even if it does effect you there's nothing you can do about it. Just like if an ex-wife wasn't taking care of herself.
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I'm sorry you're going through this. It sucks, but she is an adult and it's her choice to make if she wants to slowly kill herself and no amount of nagging/threatening will change that. Perhaps instead of trying to get her to go to the gym with you (or on her own) try a different approach. I hate gyms. With a fiery passion I hate them. I do however like different types of activities that are not gyms. I like to walk a lot. I like to dance. I like to bike. Exercising doesn't have to be gym or bust. Maybe try talking with her to find some kind of activity that she might be interested in.
I don't to want to sound mean, but have you checked your own attitude? Sometimes we think we may come across as one way but the other person might take it entirely different. Maybe instead of as a partner she might see you as a parent with the nagging/pleading and she has drawn a line in the sand the same way a child might. That's not healthy either.
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I literally called my wife's work, and spoke to her supervisor, and informed her of the situation. I stated that my wife's near minimum wage job is not worth her getting a heart attack or stroke over, and I'd rather my wife quit her job and deal with getting healthier full time.
In doing this you crossed a line from spouse to parent. You have set up a relationship dynamic where you are attempting to guilt and bully your partner into behaving a certain way. She is - quite predictably - responding by doing the opposite.
Frankly, the way you describe your wife is appalling. Calling her lazy and unmotivated when she is working and raising children in addition to dealing with grief from her father's death demonstrates a lack of empathy.
Counseling. For you, for her, for the whole family.
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Was she always like this? It sounds like you are super healthy and active and she hasn't ever been, in which case it seems odd that you would couple up having such drastic differences.
I am not a doctor, or anything, but just from what you wrote, she sounds extremely depressed and stressed out and is self medicating with food and in denial about how bad things are. And likely is feeling extreme worry over her health, shame, embarrassment and like her spouse is judging her and hates her and concerned about the state of her relationship as well. So she continues to hide from the issues and keeps self medicating with food and sedentary activities like computer crap/Youtube.
It is time for a serious discussion, and that should include counseling for her individually and for you as a family.
Calling her lazy and unmotivated is not helpful. For either her or you, because you are framing all of this as a simple lifestyle change that she needs to make, when it likely stems from mental roadblocks like depression and outright fear. Got to untangle the mess in the head and brain before the body stuff makes sense.
She has gone to see counselors and theraptists before, but it is not depression or any mental issue, it is pure laziness. She much prefers to sit at home on her bed or lazy chair and watch TV than go to the gym which is "punishment and not fun".
Lazy and unmotivated is what it really comes down to. I hate going to the gym at times, but I force myself to go, and I always feel better afterwards. I've been there. There were periods (months) where I hated the thought of going to the gym, I know what it feels like. But I refuse to allow myself to wallow in self pity and laziness and avoid taking care of my health.
I don't agree about untangling the mess in the head before the body stuff makes sense. Sometimes you just got to do it, and by going to exercise, you start feeling better about yourself.
I was very shy and non-confident when I was growing up, and hated going to the gym. But once I started a routine of going, I realized over time how much better it made me feel, and cured whatever issues I had in my head.
You have to take care of the body, to take care of the mind. Anything else comes across as an excuse to do nothing.
I stated I wasn't a doctor, but as far as I know you aren't either. So emphatically stating she's not depressed and again calling her lazy and unmotivated... you are likely hurting the situation much more than you realize if that sort of judgement and contempt comes through on any of your interactions with her. And your posts so far have been dripping with contempt for her. You sound like you hate her. If that comes through in your day to day interactions with her... on top of losing her father, her mother being deathly ill, her own health very poor and now a troubled marriage where the spouse has brought up divorce already and is also starting to turn the kids against her? How the fuck you'd expect her to NOT be depressed I can't imagine...
Just because you followed a path of physical health that helped your mental situation doesn't mean it's the only true way, and it certainly doesn't give you the authority to call anyone else's ability or lack thereof "an excuse to do nothing." You obviously don't understand the depths of depression if you believe that narrow "I did it on my own, so everyone else that is malingering is just lazy" world view.
If you really care about her, then you need to find her help that will actually work for her, not berate and name-call her for not being mentally strong enough to make sweeping lifestyle changes that you deem easy for anyone.
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I literally called my wife's work, and spoke to her supervisor, and informed her of the situation. I stated that my wife's near minimum wage job is not worth her getting a heart attack or stroke over, and I'd rather my wife quit her job and deal with getting healthier full time.
In doing this you crossed a line from spouse to parent. You have set up a relationship dynamic where you are attempting to guilt and bully your partner into behaving a certain way. She is - quite predictably - responding by doing the opposite.
Frankly, the way you describe your wife is appalling. Calling her lazy and unmotivated when she is working and raising children in addition to dealing with grief from her father's death demonstrates a lack of empathy.
Counseling. For you, for her, for the whole family.
Beyond that, unless your wife is in the hospital unable to use a phone, you should NEVER call her boss. The company does not want to speak to spouses or parents except in cases of extreme emergency.
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
If you love her, you need to show that love to her. Right now you're showing her shame, and you're acting like you don't respect her. You're treating her like a child -- calling her work! That's a major boundary you crossed. No wonder she's not reacting well when you bring this stuff up.
As everyone has said over and over, and you have yourself, you can't force her to change. What you CAN do is love and respect the woman you are married to, and enjoy the time you have with her.
What I would suggest, if you want to stay married: Drop this. Move to a place in your head where you're thinking about your wife's many good qualities (why else would you have married her?) and not her flaws. Tell her that you love her. After several weeks of this, tell her that you love her; you worry about her; and that you've realized that you can't make her change her habits. If she wants to talk about it, or to exercise or share in your delicious veggies, you're there. Otherwise, you're going to stop bugging her about it. And then stop bugging her about it. Show her love and support and affection.
You can't change her -- you really, truly can't. This is her choice. Your choice (imo) is to love her anyways and care for your relationship, or to leave. What's currently happening (fights, badgering, increasing loss of respect, etc) isn't tenable.
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OP, so here's what I'm getting from you:
1. You're a smug know it all
2. who is emotionally and likely verbally abusing his spouse.
Your wife's problem is YOU.
MOD NOTE: Let's find a way to be helpful and constructive. Cheers!
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Bread, rice and pasta is bad? Carbs are bad? I only wanna thread derail a little. ;)
Sucks your wife is unhealthy and might not want to change. You can't argue her into changing, she has to want to and a good example for her and especially your kids is all you can do. FWIW my wife and I had an early relationship agreement about being fat and lazy. If it happens on either side we can divorce.
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Like the posters above me, I cannot believe you called her employer. Not only do you humiliate her at home with your "help" but you've taken to humiliating her at work, too? Fat people know they are fat, ok? She knows she is fat. You don't need to tell her this over and over.
I hope her boss's advice to her was to get away from what you quickly revealed to be an abusive situation. I wish her and your children all the best- hopefully they have actual supportive people in their life.
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Posting to follow. My wife and I are younger, but I feel like we are in a less extreme version of your situation.
I wish you good luck. I literally called my wife's work, and spoke to her supervisor, and informed her of the situation. I stated that my wife's near minimum wage job is not worth her getting a heart attack or stroke over, and I'd rather my wife quit her job and deal with getting healthier full time.
My wife's supervisor is sympathetic, and said she will speak with my wife about this immediately. I'm going to be a pain in my wife's side until she decides to deal with this, one way or another. I will not allow her laziness and apathetic attitude to kill herself or destroy this family.
It is just unfathomable how people don't take care of their health. You can't buy good health with money, you have to earn it. I'd rather be broke and penniless and healthy, than be super rich and very ill. It's insanity the way people treat their bodies today.
At this point I feel the need to distance myself from the implications of my earlier comment. I do wish my wife made healthier choices, but the similarities between my situation and the OP's pretty much stop there.
*slowly backs out of thread
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OP, so here's what I'm getting from you:
1. You're a smug know it all
2. who is emotionally and likely verbally abusing his spouse.
Your wife's problem is YOU.
+1. My goodness
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I'm going to gloss over the health thing, because it doesn't really matter WHAT the problem is.
There is a thing you don't want in a partner.
Your wife does that thing and doesn't want to stop doing that thing, even after you've communicated to her that it's important to you for her to stop.
You can't MAKE her stop.
You have to decide if you can accept her doing the thing forever until one of you dies (should she so choose), or if you can't accept it.
If you can't accept it, you need to decide what you're going to do about it. Whether that's counseling for yourself, protecting your assets from what would happen if she caused herself a medical crisis, leaving, or some other thing - that's what you need to decide.
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I have more to comment - but I’m curious of a few things.
Have you always ate healthy and worked out regular? Even before your wife? Or was this a newer thing that started after dating/marriage?
Has she always been like this? You mention you’ve been trying for 15 years, but what was she like when you first got married? Like this?
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I don't think carbs are so bad. I live in Italy, where people pretty much live on carbs. It's normal here to eat pasta twice a day - with bread! But people tend not to be overweight and they live a long time. Obviously, I'm not talking potato chips and soda here but carbs like white pasta, bread, pizza etc.
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Dude, you called her employer? You're sick in the head, man. Even if my wife cheated on me, humiliated me, whatever...there is no benefit to bringing personal issues in the workplace.
I hope her boss went right to her and said "your husband is seriously disturbed calling here telling me your issues."
Take a good hard look at yourself and realize that you can't change ANYONE unless they want to change. What you need to do is decide your breaking point, and take care of yourself + the kids. The rest is just details.
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You can't change her -- you really, truly can't. This is her choice. Your choice (imo) is to love her anyways and care for your relationship, or to leave. What's currently happening (fights, badgering, increasing loss of respect, etc) isn't tenable.
Yes.
I didn't necessarily read your post as a smug know-it-all. To me, it reads like a man who is worried about becoming a widower, worried about his children losing their mother. When you love someone, it literally hurts to see that.
It sounds like you've tried what you can try. You can only nag so much, and it can be counter productive. I don't nag my spouse for his bad habits. He went to the doc and asked how to lose weight, doc said "cut back on the carbs", so he did. I just made sure, as the person who does the shopping, that I adjusted what we bought.
I also make healthy food for dinner, and every day I send him to work with a fruit and/or vegetable. He hasn't exercised in months, but I can't make him do that. For him these days, it's either exercise or sleep - and I made him choose sleep. Now he literally has to make the decision to get off the TV or stop reading early to get both. His habit is going to bed at 11 or 12 pm and getting up at 6 or 7.
Bad food is addictive. She has to want to change. She has to want to see her kids graduate, get married, have children. You can't make her want that.
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What she does with her body is literally 100% her choice.
You don't have to like it, you don't have to stick around and watch it happen, but there it is. Her body, her choice, and if her choice is killing herself slowly, that's her call.
If being married to a partner who chooses slow, sickly death over your objections is a dealbreaker for you, you know what you need to do.
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There are two things here:
1. Your wife enjoys junk food and doesn't like exercising.
2. You're behaving in an unbelievably controlling and borderline abusive manner.
There's close to zero equivalence between these. If this is how you come across when describing and justifying your own behaviour, I can't even imagine how unpleasant the reality is. You called your wife's employer to complain that you'd prefer for her to quit and be more in line with what you expect of a spouse? This is, unless there's a truly colossal mitigating factor that you've totally failed to mention, WAY THE FUCK OUT OF LINE.
This is not a problem with your wife. This is a problem with you. If your wife wants to eat junk food and watch Netflix, that's her prerogative. If you can't stomach that, split up. I wasn't exaggerating earlier when I described your behaviour as borderline abusive: your description of your own actions is setting off alarm bells in my brain.
Unless your wife is 600lbs and has a life expectancy of fifty, what you're doing is almost certainly completely unacceptable. What you're describing is not normal behaviour: read some descriptions of controlling behaviour and ask yourself how an independent viewer would assess you against them. Back way the fuck up, and go take a long hard look in the mirror. The problem in your relationship is not that your wife likes junk food and TV; the problem is that you appear to be engaging in emotional abuse.
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What she does with her body is literally 100% her choice.
You don't have to like it, you don't have to stick around and watch it happen, but there it is. Her body, her choice, and if her choice is killing herself slowly, that's her call.
If being married to a partner who chooses slow, sickly death over your objections is a dealbreaker for you, you know what you need to do.
100% agree. Quit trying to control her or change her, and for sure stop the creepy shit like talking to her boss behind her back. That is so unbelievably unacceptable that I can't believe you even considered it.
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Your wife's behavior regarding her health and weight is terrible.
Your behavior regarding her health and weight is atrocious.
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I’d recommend Dr. gregor’s book, How Not to Die, as it has transformed the way my family eats and made us all healthier. Also the movie Forks Over Knives.
But there’s way more going on here than a book or documentary on nutrition is likely to solve.
Good luck.
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I literally called my wife's work, and spoke to her supervisor, and informed her of the situation. I stated that my wife's near minimum wage job is not worth her getting a heart attack or stroke over, and I'd rather my wife quit her job and deal with getting healthier full time.
In doing this you crossed a line from spouse to parent. You have set up a relationship dynamic where you are attempting to guilt and bully your partner into behaving a certain way. She is - quite predictably - responding by doing the opposite.
Frankly, the way you describe your wife is appalling. Calling her lazy and unmotivated when she is working and raising children in addition to dealing with grief from her father's death demonstrates a lack of empathy.
Counseling. For you, for her, for the whole family.
Prof -- did you call your wife's boss and attempt to get her fired from her job? That is seriously controlling behaviour on your part.
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I’ll cut you slack on the calling the boss thing. You’re scared. I totally get it.
My ex spouse was/is killing himself with his lifestyle and it’s heartbreaking for those around them that care. He was more extreme than your wife but the feelings were the same. Think alcoholism, smoking since 12. Had a heart attack at 45, got stents put in. He drinks while on all the meds, has severe sleep apnea, it’s a nightmare really. He kept the heathy lifestyle for three weeks after the heart attack then went full force downhill since. His dad died at 67, stroked out. Others in his family are obese, diabetic, etc. lots of bad examples and they’re problems are their own doing. I’d cringe when he’d say how bad his genes were and he’d rarely admit they all did it to themselves. It seemed like he just accepted he was going to die young so why bother changing anything even though the doctors said he could totally turn it around. Pathetic excuse. Truly I believe there’s serious life trauma, fighting his demons, he hates himself. Yes absolutely he’s depressed.
My biggest fear was being without him and alone but it came true. Not how I expected but he got so bad I ended our marriage.
I tried very hard but for me nagging never worked so I really didn’t do that. I tried to prepare good foods, be an example etc nothing worked. He did whatever he wanted whenever.
I did reach out to his family after many drunken bouts but that just made things worse for me. I was very desperate for help and no one truly saw that. It was a hard time.
Eventually I learned his choices were his to make and could I live with them or not. I learned to accept so much, I loved him and wanted to keep our family together. But he just kept getting worse and eventually he cheated then I got out as fast as I could. I won’t be surprised to hear he’s dead soon and I hope he turns it around but it’s not my problem anymore.
She does sound depressed. She also probably knows what she’s doing isn’t good for her or being a good example for the kids either. Maybe she hates herself too.
But you have to check yourself. Lead by example. Quit the nagging and apologize for calling the boss. Tell her you were scared, you’re afraid she’ll leave you and the kids alone too soon and that you love her. Get yourself some counseling on how to deal with this. You can truly only control yourself.
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So clearly there is a lot emotionally at play here beyond just unhealthy eating and lack of exercise, and OP has gone pretty far down the rabbit hole by telling her she is committing suicide and calling her boss.
I just wanted to expand on some of the comments here about fitness activities and the gym, and offer you a more specific alternative that may work well in your instance. Have you considered taking lessons in social dance (ballroom, latin, swing)?
Hear me out:
Normally the fact that it is fun (which is subjective, of course) or that it's a form of fitness would be one of the main reasons why I would recommend social dancing. But in your case I think you might find it extremely helpful in re-connecting with each other. Since your success in the ability to dance with another person depends on both people working together, its a relatively simple and more casual way to work as a team instead of just working out in the same building or doing similar things/hobbies next to each other.
Secondly, it is initially extremely low impact, to where the basics really don't feel like exercise, but it gets you up and moving. More importantly, it gets you up and moving literally together. Added bonus, it makes a great date night!
My wife and I have spent a lot of time learning how to dance, and there is something about a supportive dance community that really inspires people to work towards their own ideal image. For example, we've been at a studio for a long time, and we have seen people there who initially came in looking disheveled, but now come in dressed to the nines, or came in shy and now they never stop talking!
One last thing, and just like everything else this is just based on my experience taking lessons with my wife, is that when you are partner-dancing it's almost like a form of mindfulness.. when you start dancing the leader has to focus on leading, and keeping time and making sure their steps are correct, otherwise the follower cannot complete their steps. The follower has to be really tuned in to what the leader is doing and leading, and has to focus on the music and their steps as well. So that's what you are thinking about, because you can't afford to let your mind wander because you are responsible for another person. So you don't think about food, you don't think "I am exercising right now" or how many calories you are burning, you just think about your steps and listen to the music and (ideally) have a nice time dancing.
Anyhow, that's just been my experience after taking lessons for several years. Then again YMMV, you may both try it out and hate it! Or you may not have any good dance studios around you. But I though I would just throw it out there as an alternative to doing nothing, or trying to push her into hobbies and activities that she doesn't show any interest in doing. /End shilling for partner dancing
Counselling would still be a good idea, but I figured I would mention the above as a way to possibly inject more connection and fun (though this, once again, is subjective) back into your marriage.
Hope I am not out of line here! Take care.
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You can't change her -- you really, truly can't. This is her choice. Your choice (imo) is to love her anyways and care for your relationship, or to leave. What's currently happening (fights, badgering, increasing loss of respect, etc) isn't tenable.
Yes.
I didn't necessarily read your post as a smug know-it-all. To me, it reads like a man who is worried about becoming a widower, worried about his children losing their mother. When you love someone, it literally hurts to see that.
It sounds like you've tried what you can try. You can only nag so much, and it can be counter productive. I don't nag my spouse for his bad habits. He went to the doc and asked how to lose weight, doc said "cut back on the carbs", so he did. I just made sure, as the person who does the shopping, that I adjusted what we bought.
I also make healthy food for dinner, and every day I send him to work with a fruit and/or vegetable. He hasn't exercised in months, but I can't make him do that. For him these days, it's either exercise or sleep - and I made him choose sleep. Now he literally has to make the decision to get off the TV or stop reading early to get both. His habit is going to bed at 11 or 12 pm and getting up at 6 or 7.
Bad food is addictive. She has to want to change. She has to want to see her kids graduate, get married, have children. You can't make her want that.
Thank you. I'm posting an update from the hospital. It turns out I may have saved my wife's life.
After I spoke with my wife's boss, she had a co-worker who is a part time paramedic check my wife's blood pressure, and it was so high, that they just called 911 and had an ambulance come and take her to the ER.
I spoke to the doctors at the ER, and they were shocked she hadn't come in sooner. They said if I hadn't intervened, she most likely would not have survived today. They said I was right to trust my instincts and follow up persistently.
My wife is now in the ER being administered by the doctors and nurses. She is thankful that I was persistent in caring about her health and called her boss. She had no idea her condition was so serious, even though other people had told her to go the ER and get addressed right away yesterday.
I can't believe the junk I'm seeing some of the other posters throw up. I'm being a control freak? You know what, if it means I care about my wife's heath over her salary, I'll take being a control freak and have my wife alive than dead. My kids would much prefer the same thing as well.
It's amazing how nasty some of these people get, assuming the worst and post the vitriol on here. I'm guessing these people are saints and absolutely do nothing wrong in life. I'm just astounded.
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How did your wife not know that her condition was serious? didn't the nurse at the doctor's office tell her it was high in your original post?
As others have said- she's going to do what she's going to do. Don't waste your life trying to change her. Sure you can try to help her out, but the motivation has to come from within. Maybe this will be a new start for her, but maybe not. Your life here on earth is precious- don't waste it with someone who doesn't give a damn.
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I agree with others that I thought calling her employer was a bit on the extreme side, but I read it as you making a plea for help. You didn't know what to do anymore and were trying to get someone else to know what was going on. We're not in your shoes to see it first hand, you are, and you made what you thought was the right decision. And thankfully for your wife, it was the right decision.
Hopefully this is a true wake-up call for your wife. You might know within a few weeks if it is. As others have suggested, try different forms of exercise. Probably walks through your neighborhood are a good place to start. She is going to have to ease into things if she decides to change.
No one else has touched on this point, so I'll bring it up. Anytime someone says that, "if you leave me it will kill me" is a huge red flag. The fact that she said that OP leaving would kill her mother doesn't really reduce it in my mind. It's manipulation and a form of abuse. That stood out to me even more than OP calling the boss.
OP, if she doesn't change you do need to look out for your own happiness. That might lead to leaving. Only you will know what feels right. Read Basenji's post about the depression again. I know you think she isn't based on previous counselors, but it is probably worth going to a couples counselor and see what they have to say.
Good luck with everything, and hopefully she comes out of this better off.
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Read Basenji's post about the depression again. I know you think she isn't based on previous counselors, but it is probably worth going to a couples counselor and see what they have to say.
Good luck with everything, and hopefully she comes out of this better off.
Oops, I deleted it. Sorry! Was feeling a bit exposed and thought maybe it wasn't that helpful. @adjunctprof PM me if you want to chat sometime after you get your wife settled. I'm glad you saved your wife, but that's obviously just the first step. I'm worried you will think, "Oh, this is it. She'll change now." But she'll need positive support. Again, good luck.
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I’d pull the doc aside and talk to them about what’s going on. I did this for my ex but made the mistake of doing it in front of the doctor. They listened and he got furious w me.
Be quick and frank and maybe they can talk with her some more about her lifestyle, getting help etc.
Hopefully this is an eye opener for her. Time will tell. Take care.
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You can't change her -- you really, truly can't. This is her choice. Your choice (imo) is to love her anyways and care for your relationship, or to leave. What's currently happening (fights, badgering, increasing loss of respect, etc) isn't tenable.
Yes.
I didn't necessarily read your post as a smug know-it-all. To me, it reads like a man who is worried about becoming a widower, worried about his children losing their mother. When you love someone, it literally hurts to see that.
It sounds like you've tried what you can try. You can only nag so much, and it can be counter productive. I don't nag my spouse for his bad habits. He went to the doc and asked how to lose weight, doc said "cut back on the carbs", so he did. I just made sure, as the person who does the shopping, that I adjusted what we bought.
I also make healthy food for dinner, and every day I send him to work with a fruit and/or vegetable. He hasn't exercised in months, but I can't make him do that. For him these days, it's either exercise or sleep - and I made him choose sleep. Now he literally has to make the decision to get off the TV or stop reading early to get both. His habit is going to bed at 11 or 12 pm and getting up at 6 or 7.
Bad food is addictive. She has to want to change. She has to want to see her kids graduate, get married, have children. You can't make her want that.
Thank you. I'm posting an update from the hospital. It turns out I may have saved my wife's life.
After I spoke with my wife's boss, she had a co-worker who is a part time paramedic check my wife's blood pressure, and it was so high, that they just called 911 and had an ambulance come and take her to the ER.
I spoke to the doctors at the ER, and they were shocked she hadn't come in sooner. They said if I hadn't intervened, she most likely would not have survived today. They said I was right to trust my instincts and follow up persistently.
My wife is now in the ER being administered by the doctors and nurses. She is thankful that I was persistent in caring about her health and called her boss. She had no idea her condition was so serious, even though other people had told her to go the ER and get addressed right away yesterday.
I can't believe the junk I'm seeing some of the other posters throw up. I'm being a control freak? You know what, if it means I care about my wife's heath over her salary, I'll take being a control freak and have my wife alive than dead. My kids would much prefer the same thing as well.
It's amazing how nasty some of these people get, assuming the worst and post the vitriol on here. I'm guessing these people are saints and absolutely do nothing wrong in life. I'm just astounded.
I am sincerely glad your wife is in care, and I understand your hostility to posts such as mine. I apologize if I misunderstood the situation. You probably did save your wife's life. My impression was that your wife had been under ongoing care by doctors (for high blood pressure) and had recently been informed by a nurse that she was in a near emergency situation. In addition to which, given her parents' similar health situation, I surmised that she either did not want to save herself or was unable to. You repeatedly said she was lazy or unmotivated rather than 1) lacking understanding of her own health situation; or 2) depressed or having any other psychological barrier to caring for herself.
Again, I'm very glad your wife is in care and hopefully this will be a wake up call for her. However, going forward, you must realize that it might NOT change her behavior, for whatever reason. And longstanding experience shows that the approaches you have taken to change her have not worked. So again, you need to focus on what you can reasonably do: support her if she wants to change, and try to accommodate HOW she wants to change (which might not necessarily be the way you would act or the way you might want her to act); set good examples for your kids; take care of your own mental and physical health for the sake of your kids and yourself, which might include stepping back emotionally and possibly legally from your marriage if your wife does not want to/cannot take steps to care for herself; seek counseling about better and different ways to communicate with your wife, and possibly different approaches she could take to acting on behalf of her own health going forward.
To some extent, this thread reminds me of the misery of struggling with a loved one with an addiction, though the situation isn't entirely comparable. But it is easy with an addict to feel that if you just find the magic words, or tough love, or whatever formula, you can get them to see how terrible they are making their situation. But the addict has to decide that on their own. Until then, and possibly after then, you have to somewhat remove your own emotions from the situation or you just perpetuate a psychologically unhealthy dynamic.
Similarly, I've had a longstanding relationship with someone who is psychologically somewhat disordered in that she is pathologically passive. She just won't act (eat well when she's unhealthy, job hunt even when the creditors are calling and she's near dead broke, leave the house even when she's miserably lonely). She's not obviously psychologically impaired, and from the outside it looks like what you seem to view your wife's condition as: A Massive Character Flaw of Laziness. Maybe it is, but I suspect deeper seated issues of self loathing and fear lie at the heart of passivity in my own loved one. And that isn't fixable by me. I've been down this road and tried it all. In the end, I had to step back from this love a bit....distance myself a bit. Because almost nothing I do changes what she does. I can make her feel horrible, and she won't change. I can be encouraging and 'take her along/boost her' hoping that forward momentum will stick. But nothing has ever really affected her for more than a couple weeks. Sometimes you can't fix or save people you love. But you can sometimes help them IF they want to save themselves.
Again, apologies for sounding harsh, and I'm glad you and your wife avoided a further emergency. Best of luck going forward.
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I am sincerely glad your wife is in care, and I understand your hostility to posts such as mine. I apologize if I misunderstood the situation. You probably did save your wife's life. My impression was that your wife had been under ongoing care by doctors (for high blood pressure) and had recently been informed by a nurse that she was in a near emergency situation. In addition to which, given her parents' similar health situation, I surmised that she either did not want to save herself or was unable to. You repeatedly said she was lazy or unmotivated rather than 1) lacking understanding of her own health situation; or 2) depressed or having any other psychological barrier to caring for herself.
.....
Again, apologies for sounding harsh, and I'm glad you and your wife avoided a further emergency. Best of luck going forward.
All of what wenchsenior said, but especially these parts. I'm very glad that your wife is under the care of doctors right now.
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
Why is your wife's unhealthiness a deal breaker? The whole "in sickness and in health" thing. She needs you more now than ever before, even if her sickness is self inflicted.
Also, not sure why you think divorce is somehow constructive in this situation. You're worried she's going to "destroy" the family by killing herself with food and yet you're looking to divorce. Is this like a preemptive strike? Does not compute, no idea how this helps the family. If anything it compounds the trauma for the kids... divorce and that whole shit show followed by mom's death.
If one of your kids was going down the same path, would that also be a deal breaker for you? Or would you love them unconditionally? Marriage is supposed to be that kind of love.
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
Why is your wife's unhealthiness a deal breaker? The whole "in sickness and in health" thing. She needs you more now than ever before, even if her sickness is self inflicted.
Also, not sure why you think divorce is somehow constructive in this situation. You're worried she's going to "destroy" the family by killing herself with food and yet you're looking to divorce. Is this like a preemptive strike? Does not compute, no idea how this helps the family. If anything it compounds the trauma for the kids... divorce and that whole shit show followed by mom's death.
If one of your kids was going down the same path, would that also be a deal breaker for you? Or would you love them unconditionally? Marriage is supposed to be that kind of love.
Because it's self-inflicted and she's not doing a single thing to help herself. OP may face years of anxiety and worry over her health or may be put in a situation where he has to physically take care of her due to her health while trying to also take care of his family. She's already abusing him emotionally by telling him that her mother will die if he leaves her. In short, she is a jerk, first class who does not seem to care about anyone but herself...did I tell you how I really feel?
Very different then if she got cancer and needed to be physically taken care of. This is her burying her head in the sand, not giving a damn about her kids or her husband. Dictionary definition of selfishness.
Harsh? Maybe in the words I put here. But no less true. I can only hope that she will "change" this time. I can see this is killing the OP slowly and not sure if he will have the strength to leave her if it becomes inevitable...
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
Why is your wife's unhealthiness a deal breaker? The whole "in sickness and in health" thing. She needs you more now than ever before, even if her sickness is self inflicted.
Also, not sure why you think divorce is somehow constructive in this situation. You're worried she's going to "destroy" the family by killing herself with food and yet you're looking to divorce. Is this like a preemptive strike? Does not compute, no idea how this helps the family. If anything it compounds the trauma for the kids... divorce and that whole shit show followed by mom's death.
If one of your kids was going down the same path, would that also be a deal breaker for you? Or would you love them unconditionally? Marriage is supposed to be that kind of love.
This is so true. I viewed my husbands alcoholism as a sickness. Truly it is and but boy is that difficult because it was self inflicted. However I really worked hard and honored our vows. It took him cheating for me to divorce him. It was hell. Divorce is a horrific experience and you don’t want to put your family through that. And I’m sure if you did it could be for many other reasons too but you don’t want your kids to go through this and even think for a second you divorced her because she was fat. Anyway I am making assumptions here and you may not have even meant what you said about divorcing her, you did say you were venting.
My ex went to a regular doctor appt and his blood pressure was so high they called an ambulance. We stayed at the ER til they got it under control. It took a couple months of tweaking the meds and eventually they did. But he still had a heart attack 9months later. He had a stress test scheduled but had the heart attack three weeks beforehand.
She could benefit form a full physical and blood work up. I’d try to get her into a cardiologist also. I’m 47 and went for myself. Heart disease is the number one killer for women.
Also consider a sleep study. Anyone can have sleep apnea even if you aren’t overweight. This alone can cause many problems.
Anyway so sorry you are going through this. But cling tightly to your marriage and stay strong.
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I'm glad your wife got help.
I was once at an eye appointment and the doc saw I had a collapsed capillary in my retina. High blood pressure can do this, so he then checked my BP -- it was the same as your wife's.
The opthamologist immediately walked me across the street to the E.R. and checked me into the hospital where I stayed for two days.
So, BP that bad really IS a medical emergency. And it's hardly "abuse" to call someone's boss when someone is at identical risk as I was, requiring immediate hospitalization. That BP is "call an ambulance" high. It means someone is at death's door right now.
(Nor is the issue that "his wife just likes junk food, but you are a psycho abuser." Please.)
That said -- you guys need to get divorced. You both are seriously co-dependent and the marriage is over.
That a divorce might 'kill' some relative -- more co-dependence. If emotional blackmail like that worked, everyone would be so controlled by others that no one would ever do anything.
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
Why is your wife's unhealthiness a deal breaker? The whole "in sickness and in health" thing. She needs you more now than ever before, even if her sickness is self inflicted.
Also, not sure why you think divorce is somehow constructive in this situation. You're worried she's going to "destroy" the family by killing herself with food and yet you're looking to divorce. Is this like a preemptive strike? Does not compute, no idea how this helps the family. If anything it compounds the trauma for the kids... divorce and that whole shit show followed by mom's death.
If one of your kids was going down the same path, would that also be a deal breaker for you? Or would you love them unconditionally? Marriage is supposed to be that kind of love.
Because it's self-inflicted and she's not doing a single thing to help herself. OP may face years of anxiety and worry over her health or may be put in a situation where he has to physically take care of her due to her health while trying to also take care of his family. She's already abusing him emotionally by telling him that her mother will die if he leaves her. In short, she is a jerk, first class who does not seem to care about anyone but herself...did I tell you how I really feel?
Very different then if she got cancer and needed to be physically taken care of. This is her burying her head in the sand, not giving a damn about her kids or her husband. Dictionary definition of selfishness.
Harsh? Maybe in the words I put here. But no less true. I can only hope that she will "change" this time. I can see this is killing the OP slowly and not sure if he will have the strength to leave her if it becomes inevitable...
It hurts to watch someone you love hurt themselves - that's part of love, you will be hurt, will go through hard stuff together including death at some point. But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted. What if one spouse is in the habit of driving too fast, gets injured in a crash and has a long painful and expensive rehab - just walk away because it was self inflicted? What about a spouse who smokes?
Again, I bring up the issue of a child who self inflicts harm. Do you stop loving them because you can't bear the pain of it? Or is that love unconditional? Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
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It hurts to watch someone you love hurt themselves - that's part of love, you will be hurt, will go through hard stuff together including death at some point. But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted. What if one spouse is in the habit of driving too fast, gets injured in a crash and has a long painful and expensive rehab - just walk away because it was self inflicted? What about a spouse who smokes?
Again, I bring up the issue of a child who self inflicts harm. Do you stop loving them because you can't bear the pain of it? Or is that love unconditional? Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
Super unfair to frame him as deciding marriage is "no longer convenient" when you know his backstory.
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It hurts to watch someone you love hurt themselves - that's part of love, you will be hurt, will go through hard stuff together including death at some point. But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted. What if one spouse is in the habit of driving too fast, gets injured in a crash and has a long painful and expensive rehab - just walk away because it was self inflicted? What about a spouse who smokes?
Again, I bring up the issue of a child who self inflicts harm. Do you stop loving them because you can't bear the pain of it? Or is that love unconditional? Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
Super unfair to frame him as deciding marriage is "no longer convenient" when you know his backstory.
I was responding to gettingtoyes, not the OP
Edit: Even so, why is it unfair to characterize it this way? Is it more accurate to say "no longer ideal"? Not sure that's any better. What about the backstory makes it okay to break the marriage vows, especially since there's not abuse or unfaithfulness as far as we know.
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Sorry for assuming.
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I hope your wife is OK. Your respective lifestyles sound vastly incompatible, which is sad.
Although you say she's not depressed, I think there has to be something going on in her head not to be interested in becoming healthier - a feeling of futility, rebellion, nostalgia in adopting her parents' lifestyle, whatever.
IMO, repeatedly letting her know you disapprove of her choices by trying to change her diet and exercise habits is about as effective as telling an alcoholic to stop drinking. If she was capable of assuming healthier behaviors with her current mindset, she would have done so years ago. I pay to go to the gym, yet often don't eat right - is it rational, NO! That's your problem, you're expecting rational, logical behavior despite maybe not knowing what's going on in her head.
I think the person who mentioned family counseling had a good idea.
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
This is emotional blackmail. It won’t kill her mother, but she’ll use the guilt of the situation to manipulate you. This marriage is unhealthy and I think you should seek couples counseling because you have kids. Give it everything you’ve got and then if it can’t turn healthy, you’ll need to move on. Your wife is responsible for herself. I can only imagine that your sex life and intimacy are in the toilet, and if you haven’t strayed, you’ll start thinking about it. Treat this like your relationship is on fire and deal with it before it causes you your mental health.
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Yikes! I am glad you were able to get her the medical attention she needed.
Now maybe this will be a wake up call for a much more pressing lifestyle change.....although I doubt it. Sadly this is not all that uncommon
I too can't believe some of the accusations being thrown around, I have a feeling some of the posters are probably identifying with your wife (overweight, unwilling to do anything about it) and it's easier to make you out to be the bad guy.
There is hope, people can change, sometimes it takes something scary happening.
FWIW, I was 300lbs as a college sophomore and had a health scare which led to a 125lb weight loss, and that was nearly a decade ago......it's never too late to make a positive change. Whatever happens with your relationship, you owe it to each other to work on this before giving up.
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Goodness me, this has been a busy thread today.
Once all the immediate emergency situation is over, here's my suggestion.
Instead of asking your wife to exercise, ask her to do something with you with love.
Tell her you love her very much and want to take long walks with her, holding her hand. Get a babysitter and pack a picnic lunch or dinner for yourselves and walk to (or at) a neighborhood park. Get a 2 person bicycle or, if you have kids, a bigger one that will hold the kids, too. A quadricycle. Go riding together, hold hands, listen and talk (in that order on the last 2!).
In other words, find a way for her to get exercise without it being "exercise". Make it full of love and fun and intimacy.
It's worth a try.
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My story, may be something relevant here, maybe not:
10 days after my third child was born, I was sitting in the living room, and got a headache that felt like someone was inside the right side of my head, pounding against the side with a hammer. I felt it and heard the noise. I had never had anything like that before.
My husband called my doc, we went to the hospital, to be admitted. My BP was sky high, before that, no problem with BP ever. (No problem with child delivery either, no drugs, natural birth)
I got out of the hospital about 5 days later, the awful things were ruled out, but no diagnosis. The headache never went away.
Over a couple of months, the thing that worked was being put on an antidepressant (that I am still taking – 30 years later) I was not depressed, the opposite actually, but antidepressants are used for other things, one being hormonally based headaches. Bingo! From then on, until menopause, I’d get one pound in my head and know my period was going to start within 12 hours. But I always stayed on the antidepressant.
Looking back, this is what I’ve figured out –
Our 3rd child was an ‘oops’, only 13 months younger than his sister. Something I’ve worked on since, is accepting that life is not perfect and I just have to accept the changes.
I had a slight case of postpartum depression with each child. The first 2 I nursed so my body adjusted hormonally gradually. The first 2 were allergic to the milk I ate so the third I just didn’t bother, so my body did not get a gradual hormonal adjustment, it was wham!
I call these pills my ‘happy mommy pills’ but mostly because they even things out. I cannot fall asleep without taking one an hour before bed, something about a ‘serotonin reuptake inhibitor!’ I did lots of research years ago, and all the medical stuff made sense, but I just don’t remember it all. When I brought our 3rd home, the me not sleeping started, and he woke up maybe every 4-5 hours, so I think my body couldn’t handle the stress of it all. Something in me would never let me hurt the children so I internalized everything. High BP, headaches was the way it dealt with the world.
I’m not saying this has anything to do with your wife, just telling it in case there’s something you can use.
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I literally called my wife's work, and spoke to her supervisor, and informed her of the situation. I stated that my wife's near minimum wage job is not worth her getting a heart attack or stroke over, and I'd rather my wife quit her job and deal with getting healthier full time.
When I read this quote, I interpreted "situation" to mean your wife's general unhealthiness, not the immediate medical emergency situation due to the high blood pressure reading. So I'm guessing that's why a lot of people were commenting negatively about this and saying that it crosses a line (which I would agree with and wanted to comment on myself until I read the update). It just seems odd to me that you had to call her employer to get her to seek medical attention. If you were that concerned about her immediate safety, why didn't you take her to the ER yourself? It's just an odd situation and not real clear on the timeline so that's probably why so many on here are commenting negatively. The most important thing is that she's in the care of doctors, and I hope she is doing well and can get her blood pressure under control.
Now to your original post and how to deal with her general unhealthiness, here are just some of my suggestions.
- I'd stop calling her lazy and unmotivated. And stop thinking of her this way. As others mentioned, she could be depressed or have other reasons for her laziness. Assuming the worst about her is not helping the situation.
- Stop thinking of carbs as the devil. Yeah, they may not be the best for you, but it's not the carbs alone that are killing her. Diets are complicated. What works for one person may not work for another. But the fact that you wrote about her eating carbs multiple times in your post makes me think you probably harp on this a lot to her and is probably not helping things. Let her eat rice and pasta, but try and convince her to cut the portions in half and add more lean meat and veggies to the mix. Try cooking a variety of healthier dishes for her until you find something she likes.
- Start small with the exercise. Don't tell her she must go to the gym X times a week. Start by saying you want to go for a 10 minute walk with her after dinner a few nights a week. Then work up to longer/more frequent walks. Maybe a nice scenic hike one day. Or dancing, rollerblading, biking, etc. There are a lot of fun activities that are also a good workout. Think outside of the "workout at a gym" box.
- Seriously consider therapy for both of you. Like others have said, it sounds like she may be depressed or have some sort of mental health issue. I also think you both seeing someone together could help better facilitate the conversation about her health and how worried you are about her. A therapist may be able to help you figure out a plan to work on this together that works for both of you.
I feel for you. It's hard to see someone you love hurting themselves. Especially when you know there's a seemingly easy solution that they won't commit to it. But you can't try and control other people. You have to accept that no matter how much you want to help, she has to make the decision on her own. Hopefully this is the real wake-up call she needs. Try to be as encouraging as possible but don't harp on it all the time. Try focusing on small steps. Also realize that just because you're fit and healthier does not mean you're a better person. I don't want to accuse you of anything, but your posts give off that kind of vibe to me. I'm sure you wife brings wonderful things to your marriage as well. Try and focus on those and communicate that to her. If all she's hearing is how unhealthy and lazy you think she is, she's probably not going to respond in a positive way. Keep the focus on all the things you love about her and why you want her to be around for as long as possible.
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I'm sorry for the health scare. One blessing to come out of this may be some concentrated medical attention to the issue, and greater motivation to listen. It can be infuriating, but often our spouses and family members find it easier to hear hard things from outsiders than from family--it's clear that in your family there is a ton of emotional history around the issue. This would be a good time to draw on all your strength not to say "I told you so."
Another good thing is that the doctor should give clear direction around diet...and it may not be what you expect. My understanding is that with high blood pressure, the major concern is often about limiting sodium, paired with a generally well-balanced diet. I have done low-sodium and low carb at various times, and I thought limiting sodium was harder...salt is what makes all those healthy foods taste good!
You might also think about the possibility that your wife is a "moderation" person, even though it sounds like you are an "all-in person." Kristin, who writes the Frugal Girl blog, wrote a great post about this, but the gist was that some people do better with smaller continuous change because deprivation makes them rebellious, and other people need to go all-in on a change because moderation tempts them to go overboard. It can be really frustrating to fall in one category and deal with someone in the other category, because your way that works feels so natural and it can be difficult to explain to someone who's inclined the opposite way. Which is to say, you might need to back off pushing big changes and encourage little increments.
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Dealing with someone who refuses to change...that’s tough. All you can do is support her, and recognize that you can only control how you react. You can’t help someone who doesn’t try...I get that it’s so frustrating that it makes you want to bash your head into a wall. *why won’t this person just try?* is one of the greatest mysteries in the universe.
I am always on a freaking diet (I mean lifestyle change...sigh) so I know how that feels too. I think the earlier suggestion of dance lessons is a great idea!! But t doesn’t have to be dance lessons- go through your local community center offerings and find one activity that you guys can do together.
Exercise doesn’t just have to be walking on a treadmill for 30 min and picking up heavy things and putting them back down. That stuff is boring as hell! I LOVE group fitness stuff, like yoga, dancing, and swimming. Just sit down and pick something that you both can do together for at least 1 hour per week. Something that makes her excited! If she’s not down for an exercise class yet, what about a painting class? Pottery? A musical instrument? A book club? SOMETHING with a social aspect of getting out of the house. Sometimes we get stuck in ruts that just feel cozy-comfy but really don’t stimulate us enough.
Also seasonal depression is so real. Even the other day I was feeling crabby and couldn’t figure out why- until I realized that it was overcast and I hadn’t seen the sun in 3 days. The next day the sun was out and I felt much better :) so maybe things will turn around now that winter is over.
Do you have access to a yard? Maybe you can go find some seeds together and plant some fruits or veggies that she would like to try. Nothing is better than a home grown tomato! Or maybe strawberries! They suck in the stores.
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But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted...Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
People like to lecture about what marriage *is.* But there is no one definition of marriage. Each married person gets to make it up for him- or herself. And we don't even all have the same vows! For instance, you said that marriage should be unconditional--except for infidelity, which apparently matters a lot to you. On the other hand, I cannot imagine divorcing someone just because they had sex with someone else. All the good parts of the marriage are still there after a one-night-stand. Who cares? But, I would sure as hell not tolerate a spouse who ate himself into immobility.
Anyway, my point is: don't assume that your beliefs about marriage are The One True Way. We get married because we think it will meet our needs, and each person's needs are different.
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OP, so here's what I'm getting from you:
1. You're a smug know it all
2. who is emotionally and likely verbally abusing his spouse.
Your wife's problem is YOU.
AMEN.
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You might just be venting. But based on your posts, it seems like it might be best for both of you if you got divorced.
Believe me, I've explored this with my wife before. But she says if we divorce it will literally kill her seriously ill mom, who is near death. Out of respect for her mom, I'm going to hold off until she passes.
I really do love my wife, despite all her flaws, but this is a deal breaker for me!!
Why is your wife's unhealthiness a deal breaker? The whole "in sickness and in health" thing. She needs you more now than ever before, even if her sickness is self inflicted.
Also, not sure why you think divorce is somehow constructive in this situation. You're worried she's going to "destroy" the family by killing herself with food and yet you're looking to divorce. Is this like a preemptive strike? Does not compute, no idea how this helps the family. If anything it compounds the trauma for the kids... divorce and that whole shit show followed by mom's death.
If one of your kids was going down the same path, would that also be a deal breaker for you? Or would you love them unconditionally? Marriage is supposed to be that kind of love.
Sounds like the kids are starting to go down the same path, because of the example his wife is setting! It’d be no different than her smoking meth, the kids see it and pick up the habit.
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I'm not going to get into everything brought up. OP, I have addictive and/or depressed people in my family. I also work in the psychology field. I know you think that you are showing you are caring by pointing out her flaws, threats and ultimatums telling her you are going to get a divorce so you don't have to see her kill herself, etc. You are doing things that that are making her feel scared, unloved and probably coping with that stress in that same way.
I'm glad whatever you did helped her get the medical attention she needs. BUT- as she recovers from surgery PLEASE delegate to someone else the motivation and structure or program for her for physical fitness, take on a healthier diet. Your interactions with her about this has made it too personal, emotional, and adversarial.
See if there are are any programs or classes she can take that are free or covered by insurance. If she has a girlfriend, see if they are willing to go on walks together. Plan fun physical activities with the kids, that she can choose or choose not to join in with. Make some meals that are healthy but taste good. Be a good example. Give unconditional support. It may or may not work. But what you are doing is certainly not going to work. I've been there.
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You can’t care more about her diet than she does. She has to be the catalyst for change. Seeing your diet and workout schedule should help her see that change is possible if she is ready. You might want to have a nice calm conversation with her about how you can best support her in her goals.
I also worry about my DH. He is quite thin for a male but tends to gain weight in his gut. With his bad back, this is a recipe for disaster. I tell him often that I do not care what weight he is, I simply want him to be healthy and have less pain. If that motivates him to drink less soda or add in extra walking to his day, I am very grateful.
I have struggles with my weight since puberty. I’ve had periods of being quite thin (for me - BMI wise I was barely out of overweight) and having a regular exercise routine to times of being much too heavy. Change is a slow process. Finding the time to exercise without losing the other times I love is a problem. Updating diet is a little easier but takes a LOT of willpower initially.
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I'm going through the same here. I live a very healthy lifestyle. Exercise almost daily. At 42 I'm in better shape than I've been my whole life, and most likely most people.
My wife is very unhealthy. Poor poor choices and refuses to eat well and/or exercise. Eats out all meals ( mostly due to her job).
"Cooking" for the kids mostly revolves around Ramen Noodles, Dominos delivery, and a pantry full of candy.
I don't know what to do. We've talked about it.
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It hurts to watch someone you love hurt themselves - that's part of love, you will be hurt, will go through hard stuff together including death at some point. But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted. What if one spouse is in the habit of driving too fast, gets injured in a crash and has a long painful and expensive rehab - just walk away because it was self inflicted? What about a spouse who smokes?
Again, I bring up the issue of a child who self inflicts harm. Do you stop loving them because you can't bear the pain of it? Or is that love unconditional? Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
Agreed. People take their wedding vows way too lightly these days. It's intended to be a lifelong commitment, and most vows include the words "in sickness and health" and "til death do us part".
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But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted...Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
People like to lecture about what marriage *is.* But there is no one definition of marriage. Each married person gets to make it up for him- or herself. And we don't even all have the same vows! For instance, you said that marriage should be unconditional--except for infidelity, which apparently matters a lot to you. On the other hand, I cannot imagine divorcing someone just because they had sex with someone else. All the good parts of the marriage are still there after a one-night-stand. Who cares? But, I would sure as hell not tolerate a spouse who ate himself into immobility.
Anyway, my point is: don't assume that your beliefs about marriage are The One True Way. We get married because we think it will meet our needs, and each person's needs are different.
The Bible does say that divorce is acceptable in cases of infidelity or abandonment. That may not matter to everyone, but it should matter to Christians. Plus, there is the issue of the vow itself. You're right that not all vows will be the same, but I haven't heard any that allow a person to leave simply because they're not happy.
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"Cooking" for the kids mostly revolves around Ramen Noodles, Dominos delivery, and a pantry full of candy.
I don't know what to do. We've talked about it.
uhmm, how about you take over that aspect of the house work? You said your wife works, so why does family meals have to be her responsibility?
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"Cooking" for the kids mostly revolves around Ramen Noodles, Dominos delivery, and a pantry full of candy.
I don't know what to do. We've talked about it.
uhmm, how about you take over that aspect of the house work? You said your wife works, so why does family meals have to be her responsibility?
I read this as he meant for those times when one spouse isn’t home. Cooking only for the kids versus for the family.
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I too have my own interpretation of this situation that is heavily biased by emotional baggage, but I will try to overcome that and focus on objective solutions.
- If your wife says the food you make is "yucky" then try to cook more to her taste. Palate and preference for fat/sugar/salt varies between people and changes over time based on eating patterns. I am also lean and fit, but I do not subsist on a diet of organic chicken and leafy vegetables. There is such a thing as a happy medium, moderation, gradual change, etc. If someone told me I had to eat raw spinach, I would say "hell no, give me that bag of chips." How about roasted sweet potato, sauteed cauliflower, dry-fried green beans, fresh pineapple... try to focus on simple delicious foods. If you made a large excess of fresh food would she throw it in the trash? Personally I default to whatever is the most convenient and ready to eat, why not be supportive by making it as easy as possible for her to succeed?
- Trying to force your wife to go to the gym is the path of absolute most resistance. Stop going to the gym and use that time to do absolutely anything with your wife. Literally, whatever she is doing, just do the same thing.
- Try to take an interest in her activities even if it is just watching videos on YouTube. Really listen to what she thinks. Saying "all you do is watch crap" is tantamount to "you are dumb." Accept that what you say, what you mean, what your wife hears, and how your wife interprets it may be 4 completely different things. Communication is hard.
- Don't shame or say "you're lazy." If you support and love your wife try to say things that are supportive and loving. Instead of "it seems like you really want to die" maybe try "what can I do to help you be healthy?"
- If you really think your wife's job is a problem, try to come up with a plan together on what would be a better use of her time. If your wife said "you had better quit your job or else," would you quit? Each person should have a voice and equal say in a partnership.
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But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted...Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
People like to lecture about what marriage *is.* But there is no one definition of marriage. Each married person gets to make it up for him- or herself. And we don't even all have the same vows! For instance, you said that marriage should be unconditional--except for infidelity, which apparently matters a lot to you. On the other hand, I cannot imagine divorcing someone just because they had sex with someone else. All the good parts of the marriage are still there after a one-night-stand. Who cares? But, I would sure as hell not tolerate a spouse who ate himself into immobility.
Anyway, my point is: don't assume that your beliefs about marriage are The One True Way. We get married because we think it will meet our needs, and each person's needs are different.
I've been to a huge number of weddings and here in extremely liberal Santa Cruz I've seen my share of different types of ceremonies and vows. The one constant: A vow to lifelong exclusive commitment to one another. If a wedding is really just dating_with_potential_for_procreation++, e.g. we want to have a big party but don't necessarily want to commit to staying together when things get tough (because they always do), well I would say don't get married in that case. Seriously, you're just going to come out a lot poorer after you figure out how to tear your union apart down the road.
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In my earlier post, I also meant to recommend the book "Switch" by Chip and Dan Heath. The theme of the book is persuading/helping people to make changes when you don't have power over them. I have used it a lot at work, but it's also relevant to making changes in one's personal life. I think it's very relevant to the conversation here.
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First of all, I'm a big believer in going into marriage with both eyes wide open, and that includes exploring each persons approach to life, health, fitness, finances, children, etc. Not being on the same page on any of that is a huge red flag. If somehow all of that stuff changed after marriage, or if it wasn't discussed and then it became a problem after, you can either divorce, live with it or work on it. Berating, shaming, condescending, coercing or otherwise emotionally abusing the other person is unlikely to lead to a happy marriage or a successful resolution to the problem. Taking the right approach matters quite a bit, and the wording of the OP is not inspiring confidence.
My advice would be to immediately stop with the shaming language and trying to force your lifestyle down her throat. It reminds me of the dynamic of my parents marriage, where my dad was sure that he was right and if my mom would just listen to him everything would be fine, but she was just so stubborn and why won't she just do everything his way. Unsurprisingly, this ended in divorce.
Start listening to her on what foods she does like, and make healthier versions. Carbs are not evil, and should be part of a healthy diet, but not overwhelm it. She likes pizza? Make it instead of ordering it, and include veggies on top. She likes cookies? Make cookies at home, and substitute half the flour for whole wheat. Meal prep healthier things that she does like and make them easily accessible so that it's no extra effort to choose the healthier option. No, it isn't as healthy as chicken and kale, but it is an improvement over packaged stuff, and it will gradually habituate her taste buds away from over processed, salty, sugary, oily stuff. So she doesn't like the gym? That's fine, it's not for everyone. Start going for short walks, just to get outside and talk and rebuild your love and trust. Don't talk about her weight or her diet, don't make it stressful, just relax and enjoy being in each other's company.
If you are committed to making this work for your kids and yourselves, you have to stop seeing yourself as the one who knows everything and start listening to her concerns and working with what she is able/willing to do. It won't happen in a day, but the small changes do add up.
Good luck!
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It hurts to watch someone you love hurt themselves - that's part of love, you will be hurt, will go through hard stuff together including death at some point. But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted. What if one spouse is in the habit of driving too fast, gets injured in a crash and has a long painful and expensive rehab - just walk away because it was self inflicted? What about a spouse who smokes?
Again, I bring up the issue of a child who self inflicts harm. Do you stop loving them because you can't bear the pain of it? Or is that love unconditional? Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
Most people also commit to respect/honor their spouses, and although not PC and a little odd in 2018, most women commit to obey their husbands. Last time I checked, taking such poor care of your health that you are dangerously obese and unhealthy is not honoring or respecting your spouse or yourself, and she is definitely not obeying. Honoring and respecting your spouse is being the best partner you can be. You can't pick and choose what parts of the wedding vows apply when they fit your argument.
In this case I would say she is clearly violating them, although I do wonder if this situation was present before getting married? If so it shows why it is important to pick someone with the same health values as yourself.
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If someone told me I had to eat raw spinach, I would say "hell no, give me that bag of chips."
If you haven't had fresh spinach you are missing out.
I love fresh spinach, I do not like people telling me what to eat.
- Trying to force your wife to go to the gym is the path of absolute most resistance. Stop going to the gym and use that time to do absolutely anything with your wife. Literally, whatever she is doing, just do the same thing.
- Try to take an interest in her activities even if it is just watching videos on YouTube. Really listen to what she thinks. Saying "all you do is watch crap" is tantamount to "you are dumb." Accept that what you say, what you mean, what your wife hears, and how your wife interprets it may be 4 completely different things. Communication is hard.
- Don't shame or say "you're lazy." If you support and love your wife try to say things that are supportive and loving. Instead of "it seems like you really want to die" maybe try "what can I do to help you be healthy?"
- If you really think your wife's job is a problem, try to come up with a plan together on what would be a better use of her time. If your wife said "you had better quit your job or else," would you quit? Each person should have a voice and equal say in a partnership.
I don't think those would help as much as you think they would help. If the OP enjoys going to the gym then telling them to stop doing that can just lead to more resentment towards their spouse. Likewise, if you have no interest in what someone enjoys for entertainment, forcing yourself to partake of it is unlikely to be productive and can lead to more resentment.
I am naive enough to think that if you are better able to understand a person you will resent them less, so these things might be an acceptable trade-off, at least for the short term. Too many marriages die from "I am not the problem, why should I change my behavior." You can change the way you treat another person without giving up who you are. If my wife said, "I need your help," I would not say, "too bad I am going to take a nap," and then resent her when she persisted.
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OP, I'm a personal trainer for moms so hopefully I can shed a little perspective here.
First of all, I agree with some of the other posters that while so many of your comments/reminders to your wife feel like they come from a place of love, your wife is not perceiving them that way. So really, it would be best to stop being her healthy eating/fitness advocate. That being said, you should absolutely continue to lead by example... keep exercising and eating healthy. Just please stop talking to your wife about it (unless she approaches you).
Secondly, who are her friends? Who is she around the most? We tend to mimic the habits of the people we spend the most time around (obviously excluding you). If her closest friends/peers/role models don't exercise or care little about leading a healthy lifestyle, then the answer may lie there. The area you live in and the habits of those people can affect your mindset as well.
Thirdly, instead of working on her physical appearance so much, I really feel like she needs to work on what's within. What are her values? What are her passions? What does she want out of life? She may be in a place right now where she is so mentally and emotionally burned out from child-rearing, work, parental health crises, and trying to hold together her marriage that she has nothing else left. To me it sounds like she is screaming for help. Perhaps she would be interested in the minimalism movement. The Minimalists have some great free e-books that help you get your life priorities straight, so perhaps she would enjoy reading those while she recovers.
The primary focuses are:
1)Figure out your values and life dreams
2)Figure out what is keeping your from pursuing those values/dreams
3)Eliminate/Reduce the #2's
After this process, she might be able to breathe and think more clearly and feel at peace. But right now, my guess is that she cannot add anything else to her life until she can eliminate some of the extreme stressors.
Be gentle with her please. I know you're doing your best. But know that this most likely has far more to do with feeling emotionally burned out than "laziness." Being a parent is one of the absolute most challenging jobs a mother can face and many mothers lose themselves. Then when you add other external stresses, many shut down and can't function as their best self.
I have been there (on the emotionally burned out front) as well. So I have a lot of empathy. I hope she can work through the emotional pieces so that she can make room for her values. And maybe you will be surprised. When she is emotionally well, she may realize she really does value her health. But in the meantime, I would encourage you to take a step back from the exercise/diet talks. Let medical professionals handle those discussions. And perhaps tell her about a cool ebook you found by The Minimalists that helped you really think about your life dreams and how to make them happen... maybe she'd enjoy reading it too and you could dream together? Sounds like a fun date to me :)
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I would suggest baby steps once your wife is ready.
Instead of pushing her to go to the gym - I'm guessing she hates being there with fit people - why not get her to try walking. In fact, I suggest a family walk after dinner. Then you wash up when you get home and she can watch a show. Over time, make the walk longer. Maybe have the kids wash up so you two can do something together - play chess or a board game or something (no fitness or food talk allowed during this time). And then when she is ready, try Saturday and Sunday family walks or even hikes.
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I hope your DW is doing better, OP. I took control of my health 3 years ago (I'm about the same age as your DW). My SIL had lost weight, and got fit, and I saw that it was actually possible. Before that, with the people around me and articles I've read, I didn't think it was possible without more discipline than I actually possess. I'm afraid your own example is awfully extreme. Even my healthier, fitter and lighter self is not fond of the idea of intermittent fasting. I'm also lazy and unmotivated--very much a result of depression, anxiety, and the following. I was also very frustrated with other areas of my life which I had little control over, so I finally saw my body as something I could exercise control over. I started slow--15 minutes of exercise/day, 3x/week. Then I added on time and days as my strength and stamina quickly improved--and I started feeling awesome after my workouts. I had built a daily routine around it--just videos at home, at a specific time (as my kid was napping). This barely budged my weight, and I was on the line between overweight and obese. So, I started tracking my food with my fitness pal. In the process of figuring out the most bang for my buck with feeling full/calories, I changed what I ate. I didn't cut anything out completely--just budgeted carefully around the staples that I figured out had worked well for me.
My advice, being very hopeful your DW is able to use it, is to slowly. One really easy routine that helped me get fit again way back is: https://www.amazon.com/Pilates-Beginning-Mat-Workout-VHS/dp/B000053UZS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523466898&sr=8-3&keywords=pilates+beginner+mat+workout&dpID=41W5GK3466L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
Seriously, you're laying down or sitting most of this workout--great for lazy, out of shape people!
I saw this guy on PBS, and it was very motivating to me to add salads to my diet: https://www.drfuhrman.com/get-started
I don't follow his stuff, but do eat a lot more salad!
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It hurts to watch someone you love hurt themselves - that's part of love, you will be hurt, will go through hard stuff together including death at some point. But unless there's an actual abuse issue (and no, claiming divorce will kill her mom doesn't make the cut) or unfaithfulness then there is no reason to break off the marriage just because it's self inflicted. What if one spouse is in the habit of driving too fast, gets injured in a crash and has a long painful and expensive rehab - just walk away because it was self inflicted? What about a spouse who smokes?
Again, I bring up the issue of a child who self inflicts harm. Do you stop loving them because you can't bear the pain of it? Or is that love unconditional? Marriage is intended to be of the unconditional variety (with exceptions for abuse and unfaithfulness), or at least that's what most people commit to in their vows. If instead marriage is simply "until one person decides it's no longer convenient" (which I realize is becoming more common) then just do away with all the grandiose vows and ceremonies already and stop pretending it's a commitment.
Most people also commit to respect/honor their spouses, and although not PC and a little odd in 2018, most women commit to obey their husbands. Last time I checked, taking such poor care of your health that you are dangerously obese and unhealthy is not honoring or respecting your spouse or yourself, and she is definitely not obeying. Honoring and respecting your spouse is being the best partner you can be. You can't pick and choose what parts of the wedding vows apply when they fit your argument.
In this case I would say she is clearly violating them, although I do wonder if this situation was present before getting married? If so it shows why it is important to pick someone with the same health values as yourself.
Yep, the "obey" part is usually and understandably removed these days as anachronistic.
Poor diet/lifestyle choices, to the point that they threaten one's health are self-inflicted, yet there's a question of how much control people really have over this. I don't think it's as simple as pulling oneself up by the bootstraps. There are almost always much deeper issues going on, often a vicious cycle involving: low self esteem/self worth, unaddressed trauma, stress, chronic health issues, bad habits, ignorance, desperation, food culture, and other factors. Shaming on makes make matters worse, and making it clear that your love for someone is contingent upon slimming down and getting fit is a sure way to deepen the underlying hurt. So yeah, therapy is in order.
For the longest time my diet and self care was deplorable. I thought health food folks were fastidious nuts and poked fun at DW for her leanings in this area. Was occasionally frustrated that she would try to get me to eat healthier and exercise. Food was comfort for me, something to help with self esteem and social anxiety. Thankfully DW didn't shame me, was always an invitation to something better. Even after I packed on a lot of weight and was having issues with high blood pressure and starting to have other health issues she remained patient, kind, and led by example. I eventually "got it" which involved a bunch of different factors ranging from how I relate to food/eating to general attitude about life, and other factors. A huge help was that her love was never in question... in fact, the thought of dying young and what this would do to her (and the kids) was a big part of the motivation. How could I do that to someone who loves me that way? Don't think I would have felt this way if it was based on negativity and ultimatums.
Honestly, I think I'm having a visceral reaction to OP because of his contempt for his wife ("she is lazy, unmotivated") and pointing out her "weight problem" while saying that he's "extremely lean and fit" and then later saying he's looking to divorce. I don't pretend to know what's really going on with OP's marriage, but to me it comes across as an attempt to find a more socially acceptable way of saying he finds his wife's obesity unattractive and would like find someone else more attractive. Harsh, I know. And I get OP never said that, but those are the optics from my POV.
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My initial post on this thread had some choice words for OP. I would say the same thing to a friend though, based on how I thought you explained it at first.
I'll admit that my impression of the situation was not as dire as it actually was though, OP. It sounded like she was overweight and enjoyed more than her share of Cheetos, but it wasn't that dire, just some high blood pressure (not emergency level high). You struck me as a Whole Foods/fitness fanatic, and from my personal experience, those folks can sometimes be a little obnoxious with folks that choose not to live that lifestyle. I apologize if my words offended in any way. I take them back (not literally, I'll leave my post up), knowing what the full picture looks like.
Many folks have given you excellent advice to this point. I wish you the best, and I wish a speedy recovery and a return to normalcy for your wife. She's the one suffering the most right now.
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I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time with your spouse, but I'll add to the chorus of people saying that you don't respect her here.
Staying up late, eating junk food, and watching trashy TV are valid lifestyle choices. If those are a deal breaker for you, then I suggest breaking the deal sooner rather than later.
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I don't pretend to know what's really going on with OP's marriage, but to me it comes across as an attempt to find a more socially acceptable way of saying he finds his wife's obesity unattractive and would like find someone else more attractive. Harsh, I know. And I get OP never said that, but those are the optics from my POV.
I dunno, I'm probably bringing my own baggage into my reading of the issue, but I understand *exactly* what it's like to be married to someone who is slowly killing themselves due to - whatever you want to call it, disease, poor choices, etc. In my ex husband's case, it was alcoholism. His drinking was devastating his health, draining our finances, and generally making him into a person I didn't like. I tried to be understanding, I tried to be harsh. I tried the ultimatum - you get help or I leave. He didn't get help, I left. I don't feel bad about that. I'm sorry for him that his life consists of drinking himself to death and that he lost a wife over it, but I will never regret doing what I needed to do to protect myself, my assets, and my mental health.
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Honestly, I think I'm having a visceral reaction to OP because of his contempt for his wife ("she is lazy, unmotivated") and pointing out her "weight problem" while saying that he's "extremely lean and fit" and then later saying he's looking to divorce...
This was my reaction as well, because it hits far too close to home. I used to be married to someone who thought it was his right to dictate the minutiae of my life -- what I should eat, how much I should exercise, even what I should wear and how long my hair should be. I have no regrets about divorcing him, none whatsoever.
Not only would phoning my employer be a deal-breaker, but I would use that against him in divorce court. Perhaps her job is where she goes to relax from the stress of the relationship.
Rather than couples counselling, I would suggest to the OP that he engage a personal counsellor to examine his own behaviours toward his spouse, as her unwellness could be related to chronic stress in an environment where she feels powerless.
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I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time with your spouse, but I'll add to the chorus of people saying that you don't respect her here.
Staying up late, eating junk food, and watching trashy TV are valid lifestyle choices. If those are a deal breaker for you, then I suggest breaking the deal sooner rather than later.
This. Some people make poor choices when it comes to their health. I love people doing this right now. It is frustrating and it scares me because I don't want to lose them. But it doesn't make them lazy or stupid or bad people.
The OP's choice of descriptors for his spouse are troubling. For those familiar with the Gottman paradigm of relationships, I would describe his language as being well into the Contempt stage. I hope OP's spouse comes out of this medical crisis and finds a better way, but guilt, shame and bullying are not the way to help.
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... but it wasn't that dire, just some high blood pressure (not emergency level high).
To reiterate what I said awhile back since it might help someone one day, BP being 180/200 is a medical emergency due to hypertensive crisis. Realistically anything over 180/110 should trigger a visit to a physician as soon as possible and 180/120 is when you are looking at an emergency since you start having organ damage at those levels. I had a chat with an EMT friend and 180/200 would have been grounds for immediate transport.
I hear you. I was just admitting that my comprehension of what was typed wasn't 100% there, which is why I reacted harshly to OP, initially. His comments painting the picture of how he's healthy and slim and she's lazy and fat caused me to overlook the specific number there, hence my apology.
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... but it wasn't that dire, just some high blood pressure (not emergency level high).
To reiterate what I said awhile back since it might help someone one day, BP being 180/200 is a medical emergency due to hypertensive crisis. Realistically anything over 180/110 should trigger a visit to a physician as soon as possible and 180/120 is when you are looking at an emergency since you start having organ damage at those levels. I had a chat with an EMT friend and 180/200 would have been grounds for immediate transport.
I hear you. I was just admitting that my comprehension of what was typed wasn't 100% there, which is why I reacted harshly to OP, initially. His comments painting the picture of how he's healthy and slim and she's lazy and fat caused me to overlook the specific number there, hence my apology.
Yes, it's a medical emergency, but something is still off:
I literally called my wife's work, and spoke to her supervisor, and informed her of the situation. I stated that my wife's near minimum wage job is not worth her getting a heart attack or stroke over, and I'd rather my wife quit her job and deal with getting healthier full time.
OP didn't just call her boss to inform him of the medical emergency, he went on to meddle in her job. IMO, this is still over the line and getting in to controlling behavior.
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So sorry to hear about this situation. I commend you for having the courage to put your story up here and ask for advice. I'm taking your situation as a lesson as to what can happen when things get out of control, but I also want to encourage you. I want you to imagine what a powerful story you and your wife will have once she makes it out of this situation. She will have the knowledge to help thousands of people suffering from the same thing and you will have the knowledge to help their spouses. So keep fighting because you just don't know if this will be your life's calling.
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Honestly, I think I'm having a visceral reaction to OP because of his contempt for his wife ("she is lazy, unmotivated") and pointing out her "weight problem" while saying that he's "extremely lean and fit" and then later saying he's looking to divorce...
This was my reaction as well, because it hits far too close to home. I used to be married to someone who thought it was his right to dictate the minutiae of my life -- what I should eat, how much I should exercise, even what I should wear and how long my hair should be. I have no regrets about divorcing him, none whatsoever.
Not only would phoning my employer be a deal-breaker, but I would use that against him in divorce court. Perhaps her job is where she goes to relax from the stress of the relationship.
Rather than couples counselling, I would suggest to the OP that he engage a personal counsellor to examine his own behaviours toward his spouse, as her unwellness could be related to chronic stress in an environment where she feels powerless.
I wasn't going to weigh in but...
Sorry, enough already with telling the OP what he can and can't tell his wife.
You and many others here are just plain wrong.
If what your spouse is doing will affect you adversely down the road, you absolutely have the goddamn right to tell them.
FFS.
When you marry someone, you owe them everything. And you owe it to them not to be a fucking burden later in life because you're ill all the time because you couldn't keep your hand out of the cookie jar.
Even depressed people could use a boot in their arse to start moving.
It won't hurt them.
Further, people can be lazy without having some sort of mental condition. Why can't you give the OP the benefit of their personal knowledge of the situation and just accept that the wife IS lazy.
We have no other knowledge to make us think otherwise.
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Each person in a marriage is a fully autonomous individual. That means H and W are free to make their own choices and H and W are responsible for their personal choices.
Assuming you are not trying to control her for the sake of controlling her, what steps can you take that will be beneficial to her but also respect her boundaries? How about if you took on the cooking responsibilities and eliminated all those excess carbs? If she complains, or refuses to eat it, that's her choice. But you don't have to give in and make her some carb-heavy comfort food, that's your choice! If she wants something different than what you make, she has to make it herself. I don't really care for the term "lazy" in this context, but if she is "unmotivated" it is likely that at least some of the time she will eat what you prepare rather than going to the trouble of making a second meal for herself. Similarly, you could take responsibility for the grocery shopping and banish junk food from your shopping cart. If she wants chips or donuts or whatever, she can use her own money and go to the grocery to get it.
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Follow up: this should be done out of genuine love, not a power play.
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Each person in a marriage is a fully autonomous individual. That means H and W are free to make their own choices and H and W are responsible for their personal choices.
Uh. No.
That's not a marriage. At least not in the real, grown up world.
You are NOT autonomous and you are NOT free to make unilateral decisions (choices) that negatively affect your spouse.
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I think that comment is inappropriate and harsh, but in the end it doesn’t matter if the wife is lazy or depressed or has some other mental condition. The fact is that nothing will improve until she chooses to make changes, and the husband isn’t going to do anything to make her change. Years of berating and belittling her has not made a difference, so why would more of the same help?
I see this situation through the lens of my own family situation. My father is an alcoholic; I see the wife here as an addict as well, addicted to food instead of alcohol. One of the best things my mother ever did for herself, my father, and their marriage was start going religiously to Al Anon. She got a sponsor and did some hard work on herself (the only person she has control over!) to learn better dynamics on how to interact with my father. It is common that family members of addicted get all up in the business of the person with the problem because we think we can someone save them or control them. Al Anon helps the families realize that you cannot do that, and trying to save or control the addict only makes things worse.
Putting myself in the wife’s position, to the extent that I can, I would feel incredibly demoralized, depressed, unsafe, unloved married to the OP. The few times my husband draws a hard line and tries to tell me to do something, I rebel like a 14 year old pushing back against an early curfew. It doesn’t matter if my logical side recognizes it is a good idea; I just can’t stand being told what to do. I am an adult, damnit! My husband is very good about suggesting things and gently helping me realize that what he wants is the best path. Marriage is supposed to be a safe haven where you can draw strength and self confidence in a tough world. I am getting older and uglier and after two kids, I am struggling to find time to get my body looking the way it did in the past. That is my own shit to deal with though, and my husband is unfailingly supportive in every way, never pointing out any flaw and only complimenting what he does like. That is how you show loving support. If he started telling me my stomach was too big and I needed to make more time to go running I would feel utterly crushed.
I hope the wife chooses to make healthier choices. I hope she can turn to someone else in her life for emotional support. I hope the OP can find some sort of counseling to look at his own behavior and contribution to the problem, or just be able to break out of the vicious codependent cycle. I hope the kids can some good role models for healthy living and healthy relationships.
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Each person in a marriage is a fully autonomous individual. That means H and W are free to make their own choices and H and W are responsible for their personal choices.
Uh. No.
That's not a marriage. At least not in the real, grown up world.
You are NOT autonomous and you are NOT free to make unilateral decisions (choices) that negatively affect your spouse.
So I don't have free will? I'm a slave, or a robot?
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Each person in a marriage is a fully autonomous individual. That means H and W are free to make their own choices and H and W are responsible for their personal choices.
Uh. No.
That's not a marriage. At least not in the real, grown up world.
You are NOT autonomous and you are NOT free to make unilateral decisions (choices) that negatively affect your spouse.
So I don't have free will? I'm a slave, or a robot?
I didn't say you didn't have free will or that you are a slave or a robot.
But in a marriage you are not autonomous. Autonomous means having the freedom to act independently. Marriage is a partnership. Partners do not act independently.
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...When you marry someone, you owe them everything.
I disagree absolutely. People still have the right to their own lives.
That said, I recuse myself from this thread rather than continuing to hash this out, as I doubt we will ever get to hear both sides of this particular story.
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...When you marry someone, you owe them everything.
I disagree absolutely. People still have the right to their own lives.
That said, I recuse myself from this thread rather than continuing to hash this out, as I doubt we will ever get to hear both sides of this particular story.
Well, maybe we're just different then.
I would die for my wife.
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Each person in a marriage is a fully autonomous individual. That means H and W are free to make their own choices and H and W are responsible for their personal choices.
Uh. No.
That's not a marriage. At least not in the real, grown up world.
You are NOT autonomous and you are NOT free to make unilateral decisions (choices) that negatively affect your spouse.
So I don't have free will? I'm a slave, or a robot?
I didn't say you didn't have free will or that you are a slave or a robot.
But in a marriage you are not autonomous. Autonomous means having the freedom to act independently. Marriage is a partnership. Partners do not act independently.
You do have the freedom to act independently. Your choices may be shitty, and may carry negative consequences that inure to your detriment and to your partner's detriment. That's why you are responsible for your own actions. My point is that giving your spouse an ultimatum is counter-productive. "You MUST do whatever because you are the Wife and I am the Husband (or vice versa)" is not going to work.
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Each person in a marriage is a fully autonomous individual. That means H and W are free to make their own choices and H and W are responsible for their personal choices.
Uh. No.
That's not a marriage. At least not in the real, grown up world.
You are NOT autonomous and you are NOT free to make unilateral decisions (choices) that negatively affect your spouse.
So I don't have free will? I'm a slave, or a robot?
I didn't say you didn't have free will or that you are a slave or a robot.
But in a marriage you are not autonomous. Autonomous means having the freedom to act independently. Marriage is a partnership. Partners do not act independently.
You do have the freedom to act independently. Your choices may be shitty, and may carry negative consequences that inure to your detriment and to your partner's detriment. That's why you are responsible for your own actions. My point is that giving your spouse an ultimatum is counter-productive. "You MUST do whatever because you are the Wife and I am the Husband (or vice versa)" is not going to work.
I completely agree that ultimatums are counter-productive in most cases. They are the nuclear option.
As for the freedom to act independently and cause grief for your spouse.
That is called selfishness.
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Would we all have the same opinions of the OP and his wife if she started smoking after they got married, 3-4 packs a day, and now their kids are seeing it as acceptable and slowly starting to smoke?
It really is no different, except that it’s ok in our society to call smoking gross and say it’s unhealthy and kills you. Heaven forbid you say the same thing about being overweight or a crappy diet though.
We moved past a “smoking culture” decades ago... yet there still seems to be some huge #fatacceptancemovement - of people constantly justifying it, calling it beautiful, healthy, etc. there’s nothing healthy or OK with gluttonously destroying your body... heaven forbid you talk negatively about it though.
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Each person in a marriage is a fully autonomous individual. That means H and W are free to make their own choices and H and W are responsible for their personal choices.
Uh. No.
That's not a marriage. At least not in the real, grown up world.
You are NOT autonomous and you are NOT free to make unilateral decisions (choices) that negatively affect your spouse.
So I don't have free will? I'm a slave, or a robot?
I didn't say you didn't have free will or that you are a slave or a robot.
But in a marriage you are not autonomous. Autonomous means having the freedom to act independently. Marriage is a partnership. Partners do not act independently.
You do have the freedom to act independently. Your choices may be shitty, and may carry negative consequences that inure to your detriment and to your partner's detriment. That's why you are responsible for your own actions. My point is that giving your spouse an ultimatum is counter-productive. "You MUST do whatever because you are the Wife and I am the Husband (or vice versa)" is not going to work.
I completely agree that ultimatums are counter-productive in most cases. They are the nuclear option.
As for the freedom to act independently and cause grief for your spouse.
That is called selfishness.
Okay, so a spouse who puts his/her own health at severe risk, i.e. morbid obesity with the OP's spouse or alcohol abuse as other posters have mentioned, is acting selfishly. Very true. But the OP is not going to affect change by being aggrieved (victim mode) or by issuing an ultimatum (control-freak mode). Both of those reactions are also selfish and are less likely to lead to a change of heart. Since the spouse has free will to do what she wants, even if it hurts herself, the OP, and the marriage, the only way forward is for the spouse to realize that she needs to do the right thing, and for the spouse to want to do the right things, so that she in fact chooses to do the right thing. I would submit that treating the spouse with dignity and respect, like a real, grown-up person, while preserving boundaries is the only way to do that.
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I don’t disagree that bad eating habits are unhealthy like smoking is healthy. But constantly nagging and belittling someone isn’t going to get them to give up smoking any more than it is helping OP to get his wife to eat better and go to the gym. We have to accept that as adults, our limit on what we control pretty much stops at the boundaries of our own bodies. You can force your kids to do things, to a certain extent, but you can’t reasonably expect to MAKE an adult do anything. So we are talking about what reasonable actions the OP can take, not whether his wife’s choices are good or bad.
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Each person in a marriage is a fully autonomous individual. That means H and W are free to make their own choices and H and W are responsible for their personal choices.
Uh. No.
That's not a marriage. At least not in the real, grown up world.
You are NOT autonomous and you are NOT free to make unilateral decisions (choices) that negatively affect your spouse.
So I don't have free will? I'm a slave, or a robot?
I didn't say you didn't have free will or that you are a slave or a robot.
But in a marriage you are not autonomous. Autonomous means having the freedom to act independently. Marriage is a partnership. Partners do not act independently.
You do have the freedom to act independently. Your choices may be shitty, and may carry negative consequences that inure to your detriment and to your partner's detriment. That's why you are responsible for your own actions. My point is that giving your spouse an ultimatum is counter-productive. "You MUST do whatever because you are the Wife and I am the Husband (or vice versa)" is not going to work.
I completely agree that ultimatums are counter-productive in most cases. They are the nuclear option.
As for the freedom to act independently and cause grief for your spouse.
That is called selfishness.
Okay, so a spouse who puts his/her own health at severe risk, i.e. morbid obesity with the OP's spouse or alcohol abuse as other posters have mentioned, is acting selfishly. Very true. But the OP is not going to affect change by being aggrieved (victim mode) or by issuing an ultimatum (control-freak mode). Both of those reactions are also selfish and are less likely to lead to a change of heart. Since the spouse has free will to do what she wants, even if it hurts herself, the OP, and the marriage, the only way forward is for the spouse to realize that she needs to do the right thing, and for the spouse to want to do the right things, so that she in fact chooses to do the right thing. I would submit that treating the spouse with dignity and respect, like a real, grown-up person, while preserving boundaries is the only way to do that.
Respect in a relationship needs to be mutual and equal.
From the OP's story, I'm not sure that is the case here.
But, in everything else you state, I agree.
It is a shame, but I have had insight tonight about why so many marriages fail... it's because they are not really marriages to begin with.
Hmm. Interesting.
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I'm of the firm opinion a marriage is a legal arrangement between two people, entered into for whatever reasons they choose, which can be ended at the choice of either party for whatever reason. Wouldn't ever marry anyone who thought otherwise. "Till death" - yeah, no. For as long as it's both what we want. I wouldn't want to be obligated to anyone else past the point when I no longer wanted to be, nor would I want them obligated to me past when they wanted to be. Let every day be a conscious choice to stay together, and if or when that no longer becomes one party's choice - best of luck, let's figure out the best way to separate things, which presumably we already did before getting into this arrangement in the first place.
Edit: though if I REALLY had my way, there would be no legal marriage as it exists now, a "package deal" with all the rights, responsibilities, and protections afforded. I'd prefer ANY or ALL those rights to be available to ANY people via legal documents. Let religious marriage be one thing (a romantic partnership "blessed" or "sanctified" by their religious leaders), and legal arrangements be something entirely different, in which the rights, responsibilities, and protections people choose to partake in should be up to them. And it not even need to be between solely two people. I can already give power of attorney to whom I wish, why should I not be able to designate someone to whom I can gift my estate without estate tax, or choose the person with whom I want to contribute to their IRA, without having to take the provision of government intervention in the relationship's dissolution, if we both agree that's not a thing we want? Legal arrangement a la carte.
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Respect in a relationship needs to be mutual and equal.
From the OP's story, I'm not sure that is the case here.
But, in everything else you state, I agree.
It is a shame, but I have had insight tonight about why so many marriages fail... it's because they are not really marriages to begin with.
Hmm. Interesting.
mar·riage..[ˈmerij]NOUN.marriages (plural noun)
1.the legally or formally recognized union of two people as partners in a personal relationship.
Marriage is what you make it, not much point in arguing about that.
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I stand by my original comment and do so as a healthy weight and very active person (the poster who thinks we must be fat and lazy of we don't agree with certain behaviors, you are wrong). I am glad she is well but there is clearly a lot more to this story.
re: a blood pressure of 180/200. I've never heard of such numbers (I am trained wilderness first responder) and google and the american heart association confirm that such a reading doesn't exist so to the poster who keeps pointing to it as some sort of learning opportunity- It is- this reading is not possible but if you'd like to learn more about actual blood pressure values and what they mean, this is a great resource: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/HighBloodPressure/KnowYourNumbers/Understanding-Blood-Pressure-Readings_UCM_301764_Article.jsp?appName=WebApp
Peace.
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I'm of the firm opinion a marriage is a legal arrangement between two people, entered into for whatever reasons they choose, which can be ended at the choice of either party for whatever reason. Wouldn't ever marry anyone who thought otherwise. "Till death" - yeah, no. For as long as it's both what we want. I wouldn't want to be obligated to anyone else past the point when I no longer wanted to be, nor would I want them obligated to me past when they wanted to be. Let every day be a conscious choice to stay together, and if or when that no longer becomes one party's choice - best of luck, let's figure out the best way to separate things, which presumably we already did before getting into this arrangement in the first place.
Edit: though if I REALLY had my way, there would be no legal marriage as it exists now, a "package deal" with all the rights, responsibilities, and protections afforded. I'd prefer ANY or ALL those rights to be available to ANY people via legal documents. Let religious marriage be one thing (a romantic partnership "blessed" or "sanctified" by their religious leaders), and legal arrangements be something entirely different, in which the rights, responsibilities, and protections people choose to partake in should be up to them. And it not even need to be between solely two people. I can already give power of attorney to whom I wish, why should I not be able to designate someone to whom I can gift my estate without estate tax, or choose the person with whom I want to contribute to their IRA, without having to take the provision of government intervention in the relationship's dissolution, if we both agree that's not a thing we want? Legal arrangement a la carte.
If that is what you are looking for, then you are correct a marriage is not what you want. You should just live with someone if you want, and give them whatever legal and financial power you want as well.
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If that is what you are looking for, then you are correct a marriage is not what you want. You should just live with someone if you want, and give them whatever legal and financial power you want as well.
I am :). It just grinds my gears that there are still things we can't access without taking the package deal (which we don't want to do - for multiple reasons, some being that we don't want ALL the parts of legal marriage to apply to us, some being a general opposition to societal norms that place legal marriage as the generally recognized "end goal" of a romantic relationship, and some being that we find the fact that it's impossible to legally marry more than one individual to be morally objectionable).
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Goodness me, this has been a busy thread today.
Once all the immediate emergency situation is over, here's my suggestion.
Instead of asking your wife to exercise, ask her to do something with you with love.
Tell her you love her very much and want to take long walks with her, holding her hand. Get a babysitter and pack a picnic lunch or dinner for yourselves and walk to (or at) a neighborhood park. Get a 2 person bicycle or, if you have kids, a bigger one that will hold the kids, too. A quadricycle. Go riding together, hold hands, listen and talk (in that order on the last 2!).
In other words, find a way for her to get exercise without it being "exercise". Make it full of love and fun and intimacy.
It's worth a try.
Thank you and everyone all the posts, too numerous to reply to each one individually, as we have been swamped with taking care of my wife, and me taking care of the kids while she is in the hospital.
I'm sitting down for a few precious moments to see the latest, and it's very interesting, to say the least.
First of all, many people must have serious marriage issues to assume that I control or abuse my wife or am unkind to her. They seem to skip over the part that over the 15 years, I have paid for gym memberships, expensive personal training lessons, all to encourage my wife to enjoy physical activity. I have bought and sold many bikes, roller blades, tennis racquets, wii dance floor mat / games, even bought dogs for my wife and I to take out to go walking. Everything ultimate results in her becoming uninterested to go out for physical activity, not because of depression or some underlying unseen issue, but because she loses interest in physical activity and finds it easier to put off physical activity to "later, tomorrow, I promise". It is like dealing with a child at times.
I'm using the words lazy and unmotivated because they 100% accurately describe what's going on here. I never call her lazy or unmotivated, but there must be very nasty people who read these words and think I'm abusing my wife and I'm a very bad husband. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have been 100% supportive of my wife our entire marriage.
For those who think I care about my wife's appearance, they seem to completely miss the boat. I tell my wife she will always be beautiful to me no matter how she looks, but I care greatly about her health and her ability to see our kids grow up, marry, and have children of their own. Health is the only thing I care about. As long as my wife is healthy I'm happy. Who doesn't want their kids and life partners to be healthy? Somehow it seems like people resent me for wishing my wife to be healthy and think I'm a control freak. I don't get it at all.
It's interesting to see some nasty posts from people who choose to interpret my posts as an abusive husband who only cares about myself, not my wife. I suspect those people are projecting their own nasty personalities onto other people, and accuse others of what they are probably doing in real life.
I have become depressed myself over the (lack of) health of my wife. The only thing that has helped me deal with this is by going to the gym and exercising. It's amazing how exercise can be one of the best cures for depression. When I am feeling severely down and depressed, an hour long gym session clears my head and I feel like I'm in the clouds. So ironically, for those who may be depressed, the best medicine is to go work the body and get some blood flowing.
I'll say many of the posts are very kind and helpful, and I greatly appreciate that. Some of the posts are very hurtful and outright nasty. To those people, I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume that they have serious issues of their own that they are projecting onto others. I pray they get some healing and counseling on their own to work their issues and baggage out.
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I'm not going to get into everything brought up. OP, I have addictive and/or depressed people in my family. I also work in the psychology field. I know you think that you are showing you are caring by pointing out her flaws, threats and ultimatums telling her you are going to get a divorce so you don't have to see her kill herself, etc. You are doing things that that are making her feel scared, unloved and probably coping with that stress in that same way.
I'm glad whatever you did helped her get the medical attention she needs. BUT- as she recovers from surgery PLEASE delegate to someone else the motivation and structure or program for her for physical fitness, take on a healthier diet. Your interactions with her about this has made it too personal, emotional, and adversarial.
See if there are are any programs or classes she can take that are free or covered by insurance. If she has a girlfriend, see if they are willing to go on walks together. Plan fun physical activities with the kids, that she can choose or choose not to join in with. Make some meals that are healthy but taste good. Be a good example. Give unconditional support. It may or may not work. But what you are doing is certainly not going to work. I've been there.
I appreciate you posting, but you have completely misread into my relationship with my wife. It is 100% supportive and loving. You don't think over the 15 years of knowing and loving my wife, I have tried everything under the sun, including what you have described, to try to help my wife?
It's amazing how some people come along to a situation, assume they know all of the answers and start preaching. Believe me, I have done everything you have described, and more.
My wife's friends are equally unhealthy as her, and they are all suffering various health ailments of their own. One recently just got released from the hospital for lifestyle choices as well, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a relapse soon.
If life was as easy as you describe, my wife wouldn't be in this situation.
I've met with therapists / counselors, independently to help me deal with the situation, and as a couple with my wife, and independently for my wife. Our insurance sends us piles of medical claims for the many many sessions we've had. I have bundles of the claims for evidence.
I'm starting to become a bit leery of therapists / counselors / psychologists as none seem to have the answer to help people like my wife. It sounds great - go see a counselor / therapist, I'd love to see the success fate of these professionals. I bet the vast majority of their clients don't have major improvements.
It takes self awareness and actualization to want to change. I've enrolled my wife and I in a life coaching program to see if that will help us. I desperately want my wife to stop her self-destructive behavior and focus on what's really important in life - her health and our family.
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A-fucking-men.
OP, I have a lot of thoughts and personal experience with loving self destructive people that I’m willing to share, but DEFINITELY not in this blood bath of a thread.
Feel free to PM me if you want.
As for the statements about calling the wife’s boss, well, it would be so nice if life were that black and white, wouldn’t it be?
Yes, in general, it’s an insane move to call your spouse’s boss, but there are scenarios where it can make sense. I called my ex’s boss numerous times and it was perfectly reasonable within the context of the situation we were all dealing with.
When crazy shit happens, sometimes crazy behaviour is necessary in response. Life and death counts as crazy.
OP might have been totally out of line, but I don’t like to jump to conclusions, especially when someone is obviously stressed and frustrated with a very serious and scary situation.
I’m sure I sometimes sounded like an insensitive and uncaring dick about my ex when I was at the heights of my frustration and hopelessness with him, so I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when I only see the ugliest side of an issue.
Dealing with loving someone who is killing themselves in front of you is INSANELY INFURIATING and can drive even the most patient and caring person to a level of resentment that can make them unrecognizable to themselves.
I just have to say this resonated with me deeply. I called my wife's boss because my wife was not answering my calls / texts, asking her to go the ER. I called my wife's boss to explain the situation, and I flat out told her that my wife's health is more important to us than her income / job. My wife's boss fortunately completely understood where I was coming from, and acted from my love to get my wife the help she needed.
My wife's boss gave me her personal contact information in case my wife has any issues like this again. Life is more about work, and my wife's boss is on the same page. She and I both want to see my wife healthy again and working happily, but it's not going to happen if my wife stays in denial about her health.
Since this traumatic event, my wife has promised me that she will eat better, and go to the gym with me. It's shocking how this very negative event has turned into a seemingly positive event. I pray and hope my wife will stick to her promise and follow up with this. I'm going to support her 100% of the way to get there, a healthy and happy place.
Please pray for us and our family. My kids were almost inconsolable last night that mom was in such a bad place. My heart would die if my kids had to deal with my wife's death. It's not fair for them, it's not fair for me. We need to get my wife healthy and get this family strong together.
With regards to the divorce I mentioned earlier, I only would have executed that as a legal tool to protect our family assets. I wouldn't want to burden our family with enormous medical bills. I would not leave my wife or allow the kids to choose between one or the other. It would only be a paper divorce so we are insulated from the medical bills fallout.
My wife and I made a commitment to be strong for each other, and to love and support each other. I will try to hold up my end of the bargain and be there for her and my family. I'm not going to dump her like a cold dish and let her deal with this on her own.
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Respect is important.
A while back I had a friend and colleague, we'd go for coffees and lunches a fair bit. She said once, "I never heard a man speak of his wife with such love and respect before."
I was a bit surprised by this, as I wasn't exactly praising her to the heavens, I just wasn't saying negative things. With the exception of 1 or 2 close male friends, my policy is to always speak of my wife as though she's sitting there listening. After all, words have a way of getting around, especially in today's online culture, and a momentary vent can be taken out of context and ruin everything.
The other aspect was that, even if I were unhappy, I wasn't going to sit down with a single woman friend and say, "My wife doesn't understand me, boohoo." That never leads anywhere good.
Frankly, your wife sounds awful, but fairly typical for a modern Western person. Someone has to keep all those doctors employed. But you sound awful, too. A man shouldn't badmouth his wife to others, even strangers. Disloyalty isn't attractive. Has there ever been an instance in which someone whined, complained and berated their spouse on a regular basis, and the result was positive lifestyle change and hot sex?
I'm asking this, but I don't want an answer, I just want you to think about it: when was the last time you romanced your wife? Complimented her? Thanked her for something she did? Gave a gentle caress as you passed going through the house? Got her flowers? Found yourself staring and smiling at her? Talked to her about the day she gave you your first child, and how you felt on that day? Wrote her a love note? Read an interesting article or book and shared it with her, discussing it? Gone out with her for dinner or lunch? While out, pointed out the sort of building or tree she liked? Got her a gift - not a present, which is something you want her to have (like a gym membership), but a gift, something she wanted to have?
It may be more productive to log off the internet and go and romance your wife again. You're married, so presumably you did some romancing at some point. Someone who's been sedentary for a long time does best, I've found - and I'm speaking professionally here, as a trainer - by easing into things. Perhaps a walk to the park with a picnic? Romance the woman, and make physical activities an occasional part of the dates. Be loving, loyal and respectful, and that way even if she does die early, your remaining years together will at least be nicer.
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What she does with her body is literally 100% her choice.
You don't have to like it, you don't have to stick around and watch it happen, but there it is. Her body, her choice, and if her choice is killing herself slowly, that's her call.
If being married to a partner who chooses slow, sickly death over your objections is a dealbreaker for you, you know what you need to do.
So hard though. My mother quite literally drank herself to death over the space of a decade.
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I'm going through the same here. I live a very healthy lifestyle. Exercise almost daily. At 42 I'm in better shape than I've been my whole life, and most likely most people.
My wife is very unhealthy. Poor poor choices and refuses to eat well and/or exercise. Eats out all meals ( mostly due to her job).
"Cooking" for the kids mostly revolves around Ramen Noodles, Dominos delivery, and a pantry full of candy.
I don't know what to do. We've talked about it.
You need to take over the cooking.
To be honest, in my 20s and 30s I got fat on eating out and my husband's cooking. When I started losing weight with Weight Watchers, I realized quickly that the only way to know what was in the food was to cook it myself. I lost 57 lbs, he lost 20.
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I will certainly pray for you and your family. Hoping this is the bottom and things improve from hear on out. Take care.
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OP, I do feel for you. My MIL is extremely obese and I have seen the exact story play out in their family. Everyone desperately tried to get her to be healthier and nothing worked. The results: double hip replacement in her 50's and chronic disability/extreme pain by her 70's. She literally cannot walk more than a few steps and requires high levels of opioid painkillers to function. To say, she wishes, she had listened to her family/friends , is an understatement.
Her kids and husband also have been left with deep issues and resentment over how her health issues have affected their family dynamic. It literally took over everything. Her husband had a stroke and they are now struggling to stay independent. Its truly a terrible outcome and one, which many will face others who are heavily overweight. Its not just about high blood pressure/stroke/heart attacks, its also the cumulative damage to your joints and spine etc that will cause such discomfort later in life.
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@adjunctprof - I'm sidestepping the interpersonal dynamics here, but I do have a question: have you or you wife see the documentary like Forks Over Knives? You both might get something of that movie regarding health. If it helps, you can tell your wife that an internet stranger, who also loves watching Project Runway, recommended Forks Over Knives.
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I feel for you OP. I watched this occur with my parents. Eventually my dad cheated on my mom (perhaps a few different times) and eventually they divorced.
Dick heads cheat. I only suggest that if you find yourself unable to stay in the marriage, or looking to stray that you give your wife the courtesy of leaving before finding someone else.
Everyone who is preaching about what does and does not constitute reason for divorce - consider the children here. Kids who are raised under unhappy marriages grow up with some pretty fucked up ideas about relationships. Kids do better with happier divorced parents than unhappy married families. "Keep it together for the kids" is a recipe for parents to divorce the minute kids leave the home.
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I'm going through the same here. I live a very healthy lifestyle. Exercise almost daily. At 42 I'm in better shape than I've been my whole life, and most likely most people.
My wife is very unhealthy. Poor poor choices and refuses to eat well and/or exercise. Eats out all meals ( mostly due to her job).
"Cooking" for the kids mostly revolves around Ramen Noodles, Dominos delivery, and a pantry full of candy.
I don't know what to do. We've talked about it.
Like others here have said, you can't control another adult - but you could certainly take over cooking for the kids.
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NOTE: You've provided a very private and personal account on a public forum. Did you understand that responses are often going to be those with which you don't agree, take offense to and sometimes just see as a personal attack? So your response is to counter with an adversarial response of your own:
"To those people, I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume that they have serious issues of their own that they are projecting onto others. I pray they get some healing and counseling on their own to work their issues and baggage out."
Take caution when you put yourself out in a place where no one knows you personally and can only respond based on what you've written. You're guaranteed to read some things that you don't want to hear. Maybe you expected a resounding chorus of agreement? Sometimes, if you're willing to be a bit more self-aware, and perhaps re-read some of these "hurtful" posts you might get some very insightful and truthful points. ....for free. :) END NOTE
Yes, you've done all these helpful things to encourage a change, yet over and over again she doesn't engage then for very long. That's a clear message that she's not going to change. I agree with you on health and exercise and diet. I mean, it's like acknowledging gravity. It can't be denied. But, it can be rejected. That's what she's demonstrating. You can call it lazy or suicidal or selfish or whatever resonates. You have not been able to accept that you can't control the behavior of your wife. Even as self destructive as it is. No different if she was an alcoholic or a drug addict. She has to want to change. You can want it for all the reasons you have but you can't force someone else to do these things no matter how well intended.
The serious issues you're feeling are your level of concern, frustration and fear of what will happen if she doesn't make some drastic changes. Actually, more of what just happened. Hospitalizations and chronic, major health issues which will hinder her ability to care for her children, her husband, her home and mostly herself.
You've said that "health is the only thing I care about"...."As long as my wife is healthy I'm happy."
All good and reasonable things. But you are involved in an exercise(poor choice of word I suppose) in utter frustration in your attempt to have your wife improve her health and thereby create, in addition to many other things, some emotional relief for you.
You said it here: "It takes self awareness and actualization to want to change."
Start with yourself.
Focus on the things that you can control. Your children. Providing them with all that they need to get through a rough time with their Mom so ill.
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I think you would have had better luck if you were a woman posting that you can't get your husband to help with household chores or helping with the kids. If you called your husband lazy and unmotivated for not helping you with the kids, I doubt people would be berating you for being an unsensitive jerk. People would also not respond by saying "stop trying to get him to help you, he is his own person and can do what he wants, instead try taking baby steps like asking him what he enjoys doing around the house and start with that". No one would be saying you need to stop nagging your husband and look at the deeper psychological issue, such as depression. But that is the culture we live in and everyone is super-sensitive towards weight issues.
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My SO and I have both been unhealthy at times and sometimes one unhealthy and the other not. We stick by each other and try and pull each other up but sometimes one of us is stubborn and wants to be left alone to continue unhealthy habits. Recently I got onto a healthy track and he was inspired by a family member to get healthier (sometimes it takes someone outside the relationship to convince a person). I was excited and just offered to support his journey to health. He tracks calories now. I do all the grocery shopping and cooking and make healthy low calorie and low fat meals (we eat mostly Whole Foods plant based). We eat out very rarely.
Is she mustachian? If so maybe you both could eliminate the eating out budget and just eat at home. If you can take over all the grocery shopping and cooking you could just buy/cook healthy meals (no snacks). If saving money is more important to her than her health, it might work.
Whatever you expect her to do you should stick to yourself, it sounds like you do.
Lastly I’ve found that positive reinforcement works better than negative reinforcement but it takes time to see the change. Rewarding good behavior with a compliment and ignoring bad behavior can work (of course in extreme situations like the blood pressure issue, it can’t be ignored).
Also understand that she is at a very different fitness level than you so if she does decide to do an activity with you, let her set the pace and length. Go for consistency rather than intensity. Like ask if she would like to go for a short walk after dinner just around the block. Even just 10 minutes gets her out there and she may decide to go longer but let her decide, don’t force. Or maybe have the kids ask her to go to the gym or do and activity with them. She might not be able to say no to them as easily.
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It occurs to me that perhaps an analogy would help.
My grandmother was religious and believed strongly in the importance of going to church and believing to be able to go to heaven. She was worried about the rest of her family not being in heaven with her. While I never got this, she would regularly say things to my sister and mother about how she was worried she wouldn’t see them in heaven, “so what church are you going to?”, and more. One could argue that her wanting to push religion on others is like the OP wanting to push his healthy lifestyle on his wife. Both genuinely come from a place of love and concern and sincere belief that his/her way of life is The Right Way.
Imagine if my grandmother kept up this campaign for years, sent religious tracts and links to videos and paid for camps or bible study groups or whatever else. She could view these expenditures as loving gifts, born from the desire to have the best long-term outcome for her loved ones, at least as she sees the world. On the flip side, we don’t f-ing want to have anything to do with religion. Tried that, not for me, thanks. The continual hounding only serves to strain the relationship because she would be trying to shove her wishes on independent adults who don’t want to change. How successful was she in making the non-religious convert? Zero. Other religions family members accept the differences and never say anything remotely close to pushing religion and enjoy a close relationship as a result. They recognize that the only way someone may convert is of their own accord, and perhaps influenced by seeing the life that someone religious around them models.
I get the OP’s feelings because I believe in being healthy and see the incredible benefits of exercise in my own mental and physical health. I want everyone to enjoy that. I wanted my sister to get off the couch and start eating better and to lose weight. But I absolutely could not do that for her, and my relationship with her was more important, so I said nothing. After several years of her watching me from afar, she decided she wanted to make changes. She eats better than I do, runs more than I do, and now is an inspiration to me. It was all what she chose to do on her own, and all the rest of us do is love her and support her wherever she is at.
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You married a type. Why? She may have been healthier 15 years ago, but her intrinsic personality has not changed.
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I don't want you to answer OP, as it's not my business, but what happened 15 years ago up until now that has affected your wife so badly that she has ended up like this? And more importantly, what was *you're* reaction to it? Was it something that she thought was a big deal and you didn't? Was it something horrible? Something said? Again, I don't want an answer, I want you to think back over the years. Something had to trigger the 'don't care' attitude. You need to figure out what it was and start healing from there.
You said you've met with therapists, both with your wife and without. Has she been to one by herself? Maybe she has some things she needs to work through without you there.
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I think you would have had better luck if you were a woman posting that you can't get your husband to help with household chores or helping with the kids. If you called your husband lazy and unmotivated for not helping you with the kids, I doubt people would be berating you for being an unsensitive jerk. People would also not respond by saying "stop trying to get him to help you, he is his own person and can do what he wants, instead try taking baby steps like asking him what he enjoys doing around the house and start with that". No one would be saying you need to stop nagging your husband and look at the deeper psychological issue, such as depression. But that is the culture we live in and everyone is super-sensitive towards weight issues.
Ryan, there is a difference though. If you are part of a household, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards that household's running - including housework, repairs, scheduling, etc. If you have children, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards raising those children, including scheduling, discipline, bathing, dressing, etc. And if you do not contribute in a fair way (whatever that looks like, it's different for every family), then you ARE in the wrong. Just because there's a higher number of situations where it's men judged in the wrong doesn't mean it's invalid, it means there's a problem in our society. If the situation were reversed and women were more commonly slacking off, then it would be equally valid criticism.
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I think you would have had better luck if you were a woman posting that you can't get your husband to help with household chores or helping with the kids. If you called your husband lazy and unmotivated for not helping you with the kids, I doubt people would be berating you for being an unsensitive jerk. People would also not respond by saying "stop trying to get him to help you, he is his own person and can do what he wants, instead try taking baby steps like asking him what he enjoys doing around the house and start with that". No one would be saying you need to stop nagging your husband and look at the deeper psychological issue, such as depression. But that is the culture we live in and everyone is super-sensitive towards weight issues.
Ryan, there is a difference though. If you are part of a household, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards that household's running - including housework, repairs, scheduling, etc. If you have children, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards raising those children, including scheduling, discipline, bathing, dressing, etc. And if you do not contribute in a fair way (whatever that looks like, it's different for every family), then you ARE in the wrong. Just because there's a higher number of situations where it's men judged in the wrong doesn't mean it's invalid, it means there's a problem in our society. If the situation were reversed and women were more commonly slacking off, then it would be equally valid criticism.
That's my fault for throwing gender in the mix, that's a separate issue. My point is that if someone isn't contributing their fair share to household chores and child rearing then its ok to call them lazy or give them a kick in the ass to change their ways. Nobody says "well there is some deeper issue for why they don't want to do their fair share - i.e low self esteem or depression, or some tragedy that happened years ago". As the OP said, some people are just plan lazy, immature, selfish, lack discipline. Not always the case, but it can be the case.
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I disagree. If the partner started by pulling his/her weight in the household and then stopped, there certainly could be something else going on there. Perhaps the person is depressed. Perhaps the person is stressed at work and needs a temporary break or a better way of dealing with the stress. Perhaps the marriage is rocky and a resentful partner is being passive aggressive instead of talking about the issues in a healthy manner. Perhaps both partners previously agreed to be lazy and have a messy house but then one later changed his/her mind and now wants both of them to do more than they were doing before. My point is that I think most reasonable adults don’t just up and decide to be lazy out of the blue with no other reason than “I don’t wanna”.
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Also, there is a big difference between saying to yourself, I don't feel like doing the dishes or the laundry, and ignoring a serious medical issue until it becomes life threatening. Not taking care of your health generally has no comparison to someone letting their significant other do all the household chores. If that person lived alone, however, and let their home become squalid, then I would agree that it's more akin to neglecting one's health.
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I probably have harsher opinions than most on this topic. Healthy eating/living is something I value greatly in life and it would be hard for me to stay with a spouse who didn't feel the same way. To me, killing yourself with food is no different than abusing drugs or alcohol. Kids learn life-long eating habits from their parents. I cannot BELIEVE how many obese children go to school with my kids. The problem is bigger than anyone is willing to honestly discuss and I wish people took it more seriously.
If this were me, I would take over the cooking and get into counseling. Or leave.
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I stand by my original comment and do so as a healthy weight and very active person (the poster who thinks we must be fat and lazy of we don't agree with certain behaviors, you are wrong). I am glad she is well but there is clearly a lot more to this story.
re: a blood pressure of 180/200. I've never heard of such numbers (I am trained wilderness first responder) and google and the american heart association confirm that such a reading doesn't exist so to the poster who keeps pointing to it as some sort of learning opportunity- It is- this reading is not possible but if you'd like to learn more about actual blood pressure values and what they mean, this is a great resource: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/HighBloodPressure/KnowYourNumbers/Understanding-Blood-Pressure-Readings_UCM_301764_Article.jsp?appName=WebApp
Peace.
I saw that too, and I think it is a typo. OP when you get back to us, can you confirm what the reading was?
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Just based on reading through your comments, it appears you and your DW are not compatible. You can't change her until she's ready to change - which may be never. It has to be her making the decision - not you telling her.
Every time you "suggest" she trade out the cookie for some leafy food, what she hears is: "He's telling me I'm fat". Every time you suggest she go to the gym, what she hears is "you're telling me I'm lazy". She's heard it for years. She knows what she should do. Every fat person knows why they are fat and most know what to do to change it, but when their spouse nags them to death, it's easy to just give up.
I would suggest marriage counseling. You need it. Notice I didn't say nutritional or diet counseling. You guys aren't to the point where that would help much yet. She needs to know why she eats like she does. You might find out part of the problem is you.
Realize now that she will never be like the fitness babe at the gym that you look at and wonder "why can't my wife be like that?". Don't tell me you don't think that. It's a natural feeling.
Maybe this latest health scare will cause her to make drastic changes and she will no longer be (in your eyes) a lazy, fat, youtube watching, minimum wage earning, slob.
Sorry, I don't know you and you may be completely different than what I got by reading your post, but I don't give your relationship much hope. Having been married 39 years, I certainly don't want to suggest divorce lightly, but it might be what's needed for both of you to be happy.
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I believe the bp reading. Mine was very near to that when I was admitted to the hospital, in fact was the reason I WAS admitted. Like I said in a previous post, there was an underlying reason, that was taken care of.
As Moms, we sometimes feel like the rest of the family is more important, and it takes a crisis to see that we have to take care of ourselves too. Hopefully that is all that is wrong here, and the family as a whole can mend
http://www.healthcommunities.com/high-blood-pressure/hypertensive-crisis-urgency-emergency.shtml
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What do you want from us? It seems to me you aren't interested in advice on how to improve the situation. Am I wrong, or are you just looking for support/validation? If so, you should probably post and clarify that, so people stop wasting their time trying to help you with things you don't want to change. If I'm wrong, here's my two cents:
It's said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Berating, belittling, shaming, bullying (as many here see it) or coaxing, encouraging, begging, pleading (as others here see it, including you) her to eat differently and exercise clearly isn't working. The way I see it, you can focus on the methods you think are right - or try to achieve the results you think are right. By that I mean you can continue to try to drag her kicking and screaming to the gym and leafy green vegetables, because it worked for you and thus is the one true way to healthier living. Or you can take the advice of most people here and try other methods.
Me, I'm healthy BMI (22), but I hate going to the gym. On the other hand, I've happily kept active by playing a variety of sports over the years. Just like I love my carbs and you will pry my bread, pasta, pizza from my cold dead hands - but I also enjoy a salad frequently at lunch. Gym+leafy greens may have worked for you, but it's NOT a one size fits all. And constantly preaching rarely gets people fired up who aren't already believers.
Also consider this - you don't believe you've treated your wife poorly regarding these issues and take umbrage at the suggestion you are less than a loving husband. But, based solely on your words (which you can shape how you like, as we don't know you), many people have come to that conclusion. Sometimes, where there's smoke there is indeed fire.
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I know you want to support your wife. I wonder whether she feels that you have taken on the responsibility of her exercising for her, and so she doesn't need to? Could you ask her whether passing all the responsibility for exercise back to her, rather than taking it on yourself, would work better for her? If she takes you up on this, you would have to butt out for the foreseeable unless she raises the issue with you.
I definitely agree that taking on the shopping and cooking yourself is a good way forward. If you do this, don't change everything at once: do it gradually, substituting some healthier options and/or smaller portions as you go.
I think the advice about the 10 minute walk is a good one. But it would be better if it were a 10 minute walk before dinner, not after. Better still, once the 10 minute walk before dinner has become routine, working up to a 10 minute walk before any meal or snack. Then even working up to a bit of jogging in with the walking. Suggest the walk to your wife, offer to come with her or it's something she can do on her own if she prefers.
Lastly, your wife is working a minimum wage job. Is there any way in which she can get some training, move up at work, or get a new job? It is surprising how often beginning to succeed in one area of life spills over into others, and I don't think your wife can feel that she is succeeding at work the way things are for her at the moment.
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I stand by my original comment and do so as a healthy weight and very active person (the poster who thinks we must be fat and lazy of we don't agree with certain behaviors, you are wrong). I am glad she is well but there is clearly a lot more to this story.
re: a blood pressure of 180/200. I've never heard of such numbers (I am trained wilderness first responder) and google and the american heart association confirm that such a reading doesn't exist so to the poster who keeps pointing to it as some sort of learning opportunity- It is- this reading is not possible but if you'd like to learn more about actual blood pressure values and what they mean, this is a great resource: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/HighBloodPressure/KnowYourNumbers/Understanding-Blood-Pressure-Readings_UCM_301764_Article.jsp?appName=WebApp
Peace.
I saw that too, and I think it is a typo. OP when you get back to us, can you confirm what the reading was?
I read the number as if he accidentally flipped them. When my ex was sent to the ER for his rating I believe it was 190/140. They said it was easily stroke/heart attack range. He also had “white coat syndrome”. Just being in the office around nurses and doctors would elevate his.
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I think you would have had better luck if you were a woman posting that you can't get your husband to help with household chores or helping with the kids. If you called your husband lazy and unmotivated for not helping you with the kids, I doubt people would be berating you for being an unsensitive jerk. People would also not respond by saying "stop trying to get him to help you, he is his own person and can do what he wants, instead try taking baby steps like asking him what he enjoys doing around the house and start with that". No one would be saying you need to stop nagging your husband and look at the deeper psychological issue, such as depression. But that is the culture we live in and everyone is super-sensitive towards weight issues.
Ryan, there is a difference though. If you are part of a household, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards that household's running - including housework, repairs, scheduling, etc. If you have children, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards raising those children, including scheduling, discipline, bathing, dressing, etc. And if you do not contribute in a fair way (whatever that looks like, it's different for every family), then you ARE in the wrong. Just because there's a higher number of situations where it's men judged in the wrong doesn't mean it's invalid, it means there's a problem in our society. If the situation were reversed and women were more commonly slacking off, then it would be equally valid criticism.
This. Ryan's example of the lazy man revolved around not contributing around the house, but the OP is upset that his wife won't exercise and stop eating the wrong foods. She works, she contributes, but she's not making an effort to get healthy. Completely different scenarios.
I'd argue that with health-conscious gender roles, MEN get away with unhealthy choices and behavior way more than women. Guys can joyously eat burgers and wings and chug beer, then complain when their partners fuss over them to eat better or get their numbers under control, and society smiles indulgently. A guy has to be tipping over into severe obesity before he starts to feel that silent disapproval from the world around them. (I will admit that men are losing ground here as society becomes less and less tolerant/empathetic/compassionate toward anyone who is overweight--but for now they still have it better than women.)
Women are expected to be the Keepers of Health. They should know all the latest super foods and trends, keep themselves in tip-top shape, and nag the rest of their family to eat their vegetables. Women are critiqued for how they carry weight (especially post-baby), how much visible effort they put into their meals and workouts, and the kinds of meals and activities they plan for their families. If she's young and thin and pretty, her unhealthy choices (like fast food and trashy TV binges) are cute and winsome! For a few years, anyway. Once a woman ages past...oh, 30?...she's expected to step into this role of Health Police and steer the entire human population away from the BAD FOODS and towards the light. In the words of Gretchen Weiners: "That's just like, the rules of feminism!"
I feel for the OP's wife. I work 50 hour weeks + commute + kid drop offs. I battle to keep my weight down. I'm exhausted most of the time, with the kids grumbling things like, "You're always tired," and my husband complaining that I'm in bed by 9:30 pm. I meal plan and cook vegetables, knowing it's going to be a fight to get anyone to eat them. *And I'm not sick.* The OP's wife has blood pressure high enough to land her in the hospital. How long has she been dealing with that? OP is assuming bad diet + laziness = health crisis but he's failing to acknowledge that the formula could be underlying health issue = exhaustion + depression --> bad diet + laziness. Lots of people eat crappy diets and avoid the gym, and they don't end up in the ER hypertensive, right? There's something more going on here.
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First of all, many people must have serious marriage issues to assume that I control or abuse my wife or am unkind to her. They seem to skip over the part that over the 15 years, I have paid for gym memberships, expensive personal training lessons, all to encourage my wife to enjoy physical activity. I have bought and sold many bikes, roller blades, tennis racquets, wii dance floor mat / games, even bought dogs for my wife and I to take out to go walking. Everything ultimate results in her becoming uninterested to go out for physical activity, not because of depression or some underlying unseen issue, but because she loses interest in physical activity and finds it easier to put off physical activity to "later, tomorrow, I promise". It is like dealing with a child at times.
You might sprain something from patting yourself on the back for pouring a lot of money into things she's not interested in. That's really not helpful or respectful. I've fought weight issues all my life (and yes, I've been going to the gym daily). None of this would be remotely helpful or supportive coming from my husband.
You need marriage counselling, but it sounds like what you really are looking for here is permission to divorce your wife.
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I think you would have had better luck if you were a woman posting that you can't get your husband to help with household chores or helping with the kids. If you called your husband lazy and unmotivated for not helping you with the kids, I doubt people would be berating you for being an unsensitive jerk. People would also not respond by saying "stop trying to get him to help you, he is his own person and can do what he wants, instead try taking baby steps like asking him what he enjoys doing around the house and start with that". No one would be saying you need to stop nagging your husband and look at the deeper psychological issue, such as depression. But that is the culture we live in and everyone is super-sensitive towards weight issues.
Ryan, there is a difference though. If you are part of a household, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards that household's running - including housework, repairs, scheduling, etc. If you have children, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards raising those children, including scheduling, discipline, bathing, dressing, etc. And if you do not contribute in a fair way (whatever that looks like, it's different for every family), then you ARE in the wrong. Just because there's a higher number of situations where it's men judged in the wrong doesn't mean it's invalid, it means there's a problem in our society. If the situation were reversed and women were more commonly slacking off, then it would be equally valid criticism.
This. Ryan's example of the lazy man revolved around not contributing around the house, but the OP is upset that his wife won't exercise and stop eating the wrong foods. She works, she contributes, but she's not making an effort to get healthy. Completely different scenarios.
I'd argue that with health-conscious gender roles, MEN get away with unhealthy choices and behavior way more than women. Guys can joyously eat burgers and wings and chug beer, then complain when their partners fuss over them to eat better or get their numbers under control, and society smiles indulgently. A guy has to be tipping over into severe obesity before he starts to feel that silent disapproval from the world around them. (I will admit that men are losing ground here as society becomes less and less tolerant/empathetic/compassionate toward anyone who is overweight--but for now they still have it better than women.)
Women are expected to be the Keepers of Health. They should know all the latest super foods and trends, keep themselves in tip-top shape, and nag the rest of their family to eat their vegetables. Women are critiqued for how they carry weight (especially post-baby), how much visible effort they put into their meals and workouts, and the kinds of meals and activities they plan for their families. If she's young and thin and pretty, her unhealthy choices (like fast food and trashy TV binges) are cute and winsome! For a few years, anyway. Once a woman ages past...oh, 30?...she's expected to step into this role of Health Police and steer the entire human population away from the BAD FOODS and towards the light. In the words of Gretchen Weiners: "That's just like, the rules of feminism!"
I feel for the OP's wife. I work 50 hour weeks + commute + kid drop offs. I battle to keep my weight down. I'm exhausted most of the time, with the kids grumbling things like, "You're always tired," and my husband complaining that I'm in bed by 9:30 pm. I meal plan and cook vegetables, knowing it's going to be a fight to get anyone to eat them. *And I'm not sick.* The OP's wife has blood pressure high enough to land her in the hospital. How long has she been dealing with that? OP is assuming bad diet + laziness = health crisis but he's failing to acknowledge that the formula could be underlying health issue = exhaustion + depression --> bad diet + laziness. Lots of people eat crappy diets and avoid the gym, and they don't end up in the ER hypertensive, right? There's something more going on here.
Thank you for saying this. I agree.
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Re: blood pressure
The bottom number (diastolic) cannot be higher than the top number (systolic). The top number represents the blood pressure at the time of each heart beat (about 1/3 of the time on average), while the bottom number is the blood pressure between heart beats (the other 2/3 of the time).
120/80 is the high end of "normal"
Up to 129/80 is "elevated"
139/89 is the top end of pre -hypertension or stage 1 hypertension
Typically if systolic is over 140 or diastolic is over 90, you'll probably be getting treatment from your primary care doc.
"Hypertensive urgency" is I think top number over 180 or bottom over 100. This needs to be seen about quickly but not emergently. Pt can go see their PCP in a day or two and not ride to the ER in an ambulance.
"Hypertensive emergency" (from what I remember) is same as above but with evidence of end organ damage. Headaches, blurred vision, slurred speech, etc... You need to be in the ER getting that lowered under very close observation as soon as possible unless you want to have a stroke or MI.
Categories change over time, and that's what I remember from med school, but I'm just a cataract/LASIK guy these days mostly, so info may be a bit off.
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I think you would have had better luck if you were a woman posting that you can't get your husband to help with household chores or helping with the kids. If you called your husband lazy and unmotivated for not helping you with the kids, I doubt people would be berating you for being an unsensitive jerk. People would also not respond by saying "stop trying to get him to help you, he is his own person and can do what he wants, instead try taking baby steps like asking him what he enjoys doing around the house and start with that". No one would be saying you need to stop nagging your husband and look at the deeper psychological issue, such as depression. But that is the culture we live in and everyone is super-sensitive towards weight issues.
Ryan, there is a difference though. If you are part of a household, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards that household's running - including housework, repairs, scheduling, etc. If you have children, it is not unreasonable to expect that you contribute towards raising those children, including scheduling, discipline, bathing, dressing, etc. And if you do not contribute in a fair way (whatever that looks like, it's different for every family), then you ARE in the wrong. Just because there's a higher number of situations where it's men judged in the wrong doesn't mean it's invalid, it means there's a problem in our society. If the situation were reversed and women were more commonly slacking off, then it would be equally valid criticism.
This. Ryan's example of the lazy man revolved around not contributing around the house, but the OP is upset that his wife won't exercise and stop eating the wrong foods. She works, she contributes, but she's not making an effort to get healthy. Completely different scenarios.
I'd argue that with health-conscious gender roles, MEN get away with unhealthy choices and behavior way more than women. Guys can joyously eat burgers and wings and chug beer, then complain when their partners fuss over them to eat better or get their numbers under control, and society smiles indulgently. A guy has to be tipping over into severe obesity before he starts to feel that silent disapproval from the world around them. (I will admit that men are losing ground here as society becomes less and less tolerant/empathetic/compassionate toward anyone who is overweight--but for now they still have it better than women.)
Women are expected to be the Keepers of Health. They should know all the latest super foods and trends, keep themselves in tip-top shape, and nag the rest of their family to eat their vegetables. Women are critiqued for how they carry weight (especially post-baby), how much visible effort they put into their meals and workouts, and the kinds of meals and activities they plan for their families. If she's young and thin and pretty, her unhealthy choices (like fast food and trashy TV binges) are cute and winsome! For a few years, anyway. Once a woman ages past...oh, 30?...she's expected to step into this role of Health Police and steer the entire human population away from the BAD FOODS and towards the light. In the words of Gretchen Weiners: "That's just like, the rules of feminism!"
I feel for the OP's wife. I work 50 hour weeks + commute + kid drop offs. I battle to keep my weight down. I'm exhausted most of the time, with the kids grumbling things like, "You're always tired," and my husband complaining that I'm in bed by 9:30 pm. I meal plan and cook vegetables, knowing it's going to be a fight to get anyone to eat them. *And I'm not sick.* The OP's wife has blood pressure high enough to land her in the hospital. How long has she been dealing with that? OP is assuming bad diet + laziness = health crisis but he's failing to acknowledge that the formula could be underlying health issue = exhaustion + depression --> bad diet + laziness. Lots of people eat crappy diets and avoid the gym, and they don't end up in the ER hypertensive, right? There's something more going on here.
Thank you for saying this. I agree.
+2. I agree with everything said.
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OP--in your original post, you said you eat very few carbs and follow intermittent fasting to keep your blood sugars level. This has really worked for you, and you send your wife all these internet links about why she should try it and see the same success you had.
I also follow a low-carb / grain-free lifestyle and I know the cult-following it has. While I feel better, I haven't found the Fountain of Youth and my stressful job still saps my energy. The diet hasn't magically changed my life in the past 3 years. (I know the die-hards would respond with, "Then clearly, you aren't doing it right. Reduce your carbs to 20 grams per day and read every.ingredient.on.every.thing." Mmmkay. I'll get right on that.)
There are jokes about Paleo and Gluten-Free diets all over the place, because so many try to claim that following these diets will make you immortal. I drank the Kool-Aid for awhile (while I was losing 20 pounds) and got irritated with my husband for continuing to drink beer and enjoy pizza. When he landed in the hospital for his gall bladder, it was on the tip of my tongue to say, "SEE?!? LOOK WHERE GRAINS HAVE BROUGHT YOU!"
Then, I realized I have zero proof that grains ruined his gallbladder, and I was being a smug ass. Gallbladders go bad. Next time it could be me. So I encouraged him, made inappropriate jokes to cheer him up, and walked slowly around the hospital with him and his IV stand.
I hope your doing the same for your wife. She needs your love and support.
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I agree with Jax8- I don’t do a low carb but I do a vegan diet. To hear vegans talk you would think it would be life shattering, dropping weight, boundless energy, etc. haha nope. I’m a chubby vegan and I feel pretty much the same as I always have. I stick with it for the animals and the good feelings about lowering my carbon footprint. But really...even adding tons of veggies and fruits to my diet hasn’t made me go “wow! I feel great!”
All the eczema people say it’s 100% diet and that dairy has to go. But I actually developed eczema 3 years after ditching dairy.
Low carb has almost as big of a cult as the vegan diet does. And sometimes switching your diet in such an “extreme” way truely doesn’t do jack.
Instead of focusing on converting your wife from junk-a-Holic to low carb, I would just try a simple goal of home cooking instead of take out, or minimize portions, or give up eating after 8pm. Something a little less “extreme” to start. Maybe switching potato chips to homemade kale chips (mmmmmm so good). Switching from a grilled cheese sandwich to a grilled vegetable sandwich.
Things that still taste awesome but will add some nutritional value.
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OP - I'm just curious if you've asked your wife what she wants? This thread seems to be primarily focused on "fixing" her, but does she see herself as "broken"? Is she happy, is she getting what she wants out of life? If the answer is no, she's not happy, then what does she need to start working towards happy?
Speaking as someone that has been notoriously bad at caring for myself (although I am excellent at work, at caring for others, etc.) - these questions are really important to ask yourself, especially if you're caught up in an unhealthy spiral. I've used food for most of my life to numb feelings, for comfort, to celebrate, to feel good, etc. etc. etc. I'm not lazy and I'm not unmotivated, but having lost and gained weight for much of my life, I'm finally starting to see that food is really emotional for me and until you understand the "why" of overeating - all of the dieting and exercising is just pushing the ball uphill.
For what it's worth, I've been going through an online course for people that battle with weight but the dietitian that runs the program focuses on helping you see how to be happy first and then the weight starts to take care of itself. If you'd like to check it out, it is https://www.feelbettereatbetter.com/
I wish both you and your wife lots of happiness..
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Have you read Gretchen Rubins work on the Four Tendencies? It’s about what motivates people. I picked up on this in your post. You are motivated by doing what is right. You’re a just do it person. Many more people are not. Regardless of laziness, mental health, etc she is not a person motivated by the black and white. She is also not someone motivated by wanting to oblige or make someone else happy (you.). There are a few other categories.i can’t remember exactly Motivated by making sense of why the thing is important. And the rebel. Motivated only bc it serves them and their desires. Which is essentially what she’s doing by choosing this lifestyle.
Also, it’s very easy for health and wellness to come off as a moral high ground to some people. So if she sees that you’re living it at such a high level and has a negative self image, that won’t motivate her to improve. Bc she’s probably thinking that she will never achieve your level so why bother.
I don’t agree with those lines of thinking and I don’t have an easy answer. I don’t understand making chronically unhealthy choices either. But in your venting it’s making something that’s very complex to her into a black and white issue for you.
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Wow, this thread is all over the place!
My mom exhibited a lot of the traits that @adjunctprof describes. My dad eventually gave up trying. It was so sad to watch him gradually give up any hope of improvement. He simply caved and let her do whatever she wanted without comment. It was the only way he could survive and stay in the marriage. Things never improved. My mother's choices always came first. Unsurprisingly, she died first. Dad broke all of our hearts by describing her as "the love of my life". Poor, good, kind man. He deserved so much better than what he got.
Deep down, he knew he was responsible for chosing her as his bride and he accepted the consequences of his decision. It didn't stop it from being heartbreakingly sad for all of his children to watch.
The book and movie, "The Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood" by Rebecca Wells really resonated with me. In it, there is a heartbreakingly simple exchange between Daughter "Sidda" (played by Sandra Bullock) and Dad "Shep" (James Garner):
Sidda: Daddy, did you get loved enough?
Shep: What's enough? My question is, did you?
Sadly, when one person sucks all the air out of the room with their neediness (whatever the cause), everyone around them suffers. Such a fucking waste.
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My local area has a list of every active group (walking, sport, craft...) in the area. I found it great for inspiration about the activities available - some of which I’d never heard. Perhaps your area is similar. Going through all the different activities together may give you some ideas of things that may work out.
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I skipped reading most of the responses to this, because quite frankly it's a long thread..
"it seems you really want to die, the unhealthy lifestyle is literally suicide for you. I'll be extremely sad if you die, but it might be better than you being a vegetable and need 24/7 care from me to take care of you."
What did she say to that?
Sugar and flour are a real addiction. This book actually lays it out how the food really acts like a drug in the brain. Not that she seems to want to tackle it but it's interesting.
https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Line-Eating-Science-Living/dp/1401952534/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523638789&sr=8-1&keywords=brightline+eating&dpID=51ESNgw1lQL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
I would recommend this book, I'm reading it for a second time and it's been a game changer for me. It's about conversations but it's about so much more than that too. Since you aren't getting anywhere trying to change her, this may actual help.
https://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-What-Matters/dp/0143118447/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1523638880&sr=8-2&keywords=difficult+conversations
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With regards to the divorce I mentioned earlier, I only would have executed that as a legal tool to protect our family assets. I wouldn't want to burden our family with enormous medical bills. I would not leave my wife or allow the kids to choose between one or the other. It would only be a paper divorce so we are insulated from the medical bills fallout.
This goes back to the marriage vows you 2 took, and whether a God was invited to the ceremony. Somewhere on this forum is a question of being frugal, and still being ethical???? Might be something to think about. Medicaid is aware of such tactics and the assets used to pay Medicaid have to be divided so many years before they'll pay. I do not know how many years they require.
Lets say you do this enough years ahead of time, so your half (she is entitled to half - there's that ethicaly thing again) isn't touched. What is the guarantee something won't happen to you first? I know of many seemingly healthy individuals who had strokes, heart attack, awful car accidents.
If you are seriously considering this, consult with a lawyer. We did, and decided against it, because there are no guarantees who will go first.
You mention not burdening your family with enormous medical bills? So it's ok to burden society? (ethical thing again) Is this something you want to teach your children? If so, ok, just something to think about. If that's the kind of father you want for your children, ok - remembering they might be parents themselves someday.
TheHusbandHalf and I have arranged our lives so we can self fund any long term care/etc costs. Doing so prevents us from having to answer such questions for ourselves. We have not paid for many things others have paid for, to be able to amass the money that will be needed. Like dinners out, gym memberships. etc.
2 of our kids, on separate occasions, have asked us about having enough money when we get old. They were very relieved with our answer, that we do. They now know we'll have enough for any long term care/etc, and I know they found some comfort in that. THAT is the legacy we want to leave, not a bunch of assets.
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First of all, maybe she's unhappy. And maybe you should be spending more time worrying about her happiness and less time worrying about her weight.
Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging. High level athletes routinely have heart attacks. Meanwhile, drinkers and smokers live to 105. You simply can't tell.
Thirdly, while you might be legitimately concerned, HER health is not YOUR business. Your job is just to love her.
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First of all, maybe she's unhappy. And maybe you should be spending more time worrying about her happiness and less time worrying about her weight.
Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging. High level athletes routinely have heart attacks. Meanwhile, drinkers and smokers live to 105. You simply can't tell.
Thirdly, while you might be legitimately concerned, HER health is not YOUR business. Your job is just to love her.
First of all, OP, you seem incredibly unhappy. I hope you’re focusing on your happiness and getting the support you need, because you matter.
Secondly, you can’t and shouldn’t try to control others, you can only control yourself. Understand what is a healthy lifestyle for you and live it your way, and be the example to others, while letting them make adult decisions.
Thirdly, above all else, love yourself enough to not suffer. When a plane is in distress, you have to take care of yourself first, before you can attend to others. If someone’s commitment to an unhealthy lifestyle is so strong that it risks damaging everyone else, it’s ok to prioritize your needs, safety and health and make the tough decisions that protect you and the children. You’re not a villain, a quitter, a breaker of gods vows—you’re merely someone that has realized that your partner has gone down a different path, refuses to change and that impacts are too damaging to continue. The brave choice isn’t always the popular one, but it’s the one that may keep the rest of you alive. Your wife is responsible for her choices and the consequences that result and it might mean losing her husband as well.
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I think you are getting some good advice here. People will change only if they want to change. You can’t force it, no matter how hard you try. Your best option is probably to keep on with your routine and don’t worry about what your spouse is doing. Stop the judgments, offer to include her in your plans/meals. But if she declines to participate, simply let it be.
This feels very similar to a scenario with an alcoholic spouse (which I’m familiar with). As hard as the non-drinking spouse tries to control the drinking spouse’s behavior, it just doesn’t work. The non-drinking spouse has to learn to set boundaries and step back. I’ve found this incredibly difficult, but really necessary for my sanity and marriage.
I agree with the others that your priority needs to be to take care of yourself. Set boundaries, and try to stop controlling the things you can’t. (Easier said than done, but taking little steps will help you reclaim your sanity.) It’s ok to prioritize yourself and your kids. Take some time and enjoy yourself without the burden of trying to control your wife’s health. See where things are in a month or two after you step back.
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I'm not going to get into everything brought up. OP, I have addictive and/or depressed people in my family. I also work in the psychology field. I know you think that you are showing you are caring by pointing out her flaws, threats and ultimatums telling her you are going to get a divorce so you don't have to see her kill herself, etc. You are doing things that that are making her feel scared, unloved and probably coping with that stress in that same way.
I'm glad whatever you did helped her get the medical attention she needs. BUT- as she recovers from surgery PLEASE delegate to someone else the motivation and structure or program for her for physical fitness, take on a healthier diet. Your interactions with her about this has made it too personal, emotional, and adversarial.
See if there are are any programs or classes she can take that are free or covered by insurance. If she has a girlfriend, see if they are willing to go on walks together. Plan fun physical activities with the kids, that she can choose or choose not to join in with. Make some meals that are healthy but taste good. Be a good example. Give unconditional support. It may or may not work. But what you are doing is certainly not going to work. I've been there.
I appreciate you posting, but you have completely misread into my relationship with my wife. It is 100% supportive and loving. You don't think over the 15 years of knowing and loving my wife, I have tried everything under the sun, including what you have described, to try to help my wife?
It's amazing how some people come along to a situation, assume they know all of the answers and start preaching. Believe me, I have done everything you have described, and more.
My wife's friends are equally unhealthy as her, and they are all suffering various health ailments of their own. One recently just got released from the hospital for lifestyle choices as well, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a relapse soon.
If life was as easy as you describe, my wife wouldn't be in this situation.
I've met with therapists / counselors, independently to help me deal with the situation, and as a couple with my wife, and independently for my wife. Our insurance sends us piles of medical claims for the many many sessions we've had. I have bundles of the claims for evidence.
I'm starting to become a bit leery of therapists / counselors / psychologists as none seem to have the answer to help people like my wife. It sounds great - go see a counselor / therapist, I'd love to see the success fate of these professionals. I bet the vast majority of their clients don't have major improvements.
It takes self awareness and actualization to want to change. I've enrolled my wife and I in a life coaching program to see if that will help us. I desperately want my wife to stop her self-destructive behavior and focus on what's really important in life - her health and our family.
I never said it was easy, or that it was bound to work. Just that you being the one pushing her, is not going to work. I think you are under a misapprehension, that therapy or counseling can MAKE someone change. That's not correct. They can only support what the person wants to do. Oftentimes motivational interviewing is used at the start before doing any kind of intervention. That's used to probe whether the person is willing and ready and committed to making a change. Unless the person themselves is willing and committed, then implementing anything is not going to work. So I don't know what stage your wife is in all this, but she is the only one who can make that decision. It must be incredibly frustrating, but you can't do this for her. I'm glad you are there for her.
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I appreciate you posting, but you have completely misread into my relationship with my wife. It is 100% supportive and loving.
Show her this thread and see if she feels supported and loved as a result.
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I appreciate you posting, but you have completely misread into my relationship with my wife. It is 100% supportive and loving.
Show her this thread and see if she feels supported and loved as a result.
BOOM
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Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging.
James Fixx didn't invent jogging, Fixx popularized running as a sport for personal fitness.
And he had a strong family history of heart attacks, and had heart disease himself from before he started running. He also smoked (he quit after he started running) and was overweight (ditto). Early cardiac death was in the cards for him, no matter how much he exercised and changed his lifestyle. That doesn't mean exercise isn't useful.
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Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging.
James Fixx didn't invent jogging, Fixx popularized running as a sport for personal fitness.
And he had a strong family history of heart attacks, and had heart disease himself from before he started running. He also smoked (he quit after he started running) and was overweight (ditto). Early cardiac death was in the cards for him, no matter how much he exercised and changed his lifestyle. That doesn't mean exercise isn't useful.
Exercise is definitely useful. I am less convinced that solid-state cardio is all that it's cracked up to be.
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Of course exercise is useful. It improves your odds and has many benefits. But it doesn't guarantee that you won't suffer some horrible disease and be a terrible burden on your family. I would guess we all have known people who ate well, were fit and exercised regularly but who died young. I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head.
Using the notion that because somebody might get sick and be a financial burden on the family as a reason to divorce, probably means all of us who are married should call a lawyer immediately.
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Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging.
James Fixx didn't invent jogging, Fixx popularized running as a sport for personal fitness.
And he had a strong family history of heart attacks, and had heart disease himself from before he started running. He also smoked (he quit after he started running) and was overweight (ditto). Early cardiac death was in the cards for him, no matter how much he exercised and changed his lifestyle. That doesn't mean exercise isn't useful.
Health advice is so much nonsense. 10 years ago, eggs were terrible, fat was terrible, dairy was terrible. 100 years ago, smoking was a cure for asthma. These days carbs are the devil. Just recently, I see that a standard drink a day is now way more terrible than we thought. Ignore the lot of them and do everything in moderation. And you're still going to get fat smokers that live to 100 and super fit vegans who die at 30. NO ONE KNOWS. Not everyone realises that science is, in fact, a social discourse. It is not objective. It is not fact. It is not ever 'done'. Next year they might decide that sugar is a health food. And I'll ignore that also.
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Health advice is so much nonsense. 10 years ago, eggs were terrible, fat was terrible, dairy was terrible. 100 years ago, smoking was a cure for asthma. These days carbs are the devil.
So, there is this thing called "new insights". This is actually what science is all about. You wonder how something works, you research it, and then you find out how it works.
It seemed like smoking was good for asthma (probably because many adults start smoking and outgrow their childhood asthma in the same time period). Then they researched this, I believe in the 1950s or so. Turns out that smokers die younger and have more health problems. The big ones being, I believe, cancer, atherosclerosis and COPD.
Trust me, we won't suddenly have new research showing that smoking is good for you.
Same thing is true with other food research. Sure, some of it is bollocks. Some of the food research is fraud. But in the long run, you will see a progress towards our understanding of what food really does to a human body and over a long period of time.
I'm, by the way, not sure that science ever "proved" that "carbs are the devil". I believe that most food science still says that you should eat all kinds of food groups, but in moderation. No carbs is more a lay "hype" than it is science.
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Secondly, the guy who invented jogging died at 52. While jogging.
James Fixx didn't invent jogging, Fixx popularized running as a sport for personal fitness.
And he had a strong family history of heart attacks, and had heart disease himself from before he started running. He also smoked (he quit after he started running) and was overweight (ditto). Early cardiac death was in the cards for him, no matter how much he exercised and changed his lifestyle. That doesn't mean exercise isn't useful.
Exercise is definitely useful. I am less convinced that solid-state cardio is all that it's cracked up to be.
Is it best? Probably not. Still better than doing nothing at all. Very few people are going to do the 100% most optimizing diet and exercise regimen. However - finding one that they can enjoy and stick with for the rest of their life is often better than doing something they hate and can’t keep up with, and resort to doing nothing at all.
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You never know. I think of 2 colleagues, one fit and healthy and one an overweight smoker. the fit one died young, the high risk one outlived him by many years. Mortality figures are composites, not predictors for an individual.
Also, getting back to OP's wife, at some point carbs are as addictive as cigarettes and alcohol. Basically if the pancreas and body cells are having issues with insulin, the blood sugar is on a roller-coaster and when it crashes, the person craves more carbs to get their blood sugar back to normal. And for someone like this, the transition to a low carb normal protein high fat diet is extremely hard, and the only way to make their pancreas happy. They have Syndrome X. A nice read for her would be How I gave up my low-fat diet and lost 40 pounds by Dana Carpender.
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There are three macro nutrients that all bodies need as fuel. Carbs, fat and protein. You can eat them in different proportions if you like, but it's absolute bullshit to say that carbs are addictive/cause cancer/will kill you. Yes, everyone who eats carbs will die, just like everyone who drinks water will die. Because everyone dies.
This doesn't mean that you can't improve your diet if it's not varied enough and doesn't include enough micro nutrients. But I'm so sick of people spewing nonsense when it comes to exercise and nutrition. It's not an exact science, what works for you may not work for someone else, moderation in anything is generally healthy and extremes should be avoided. There is no perfect way to eat, it would be impossible to determine what that would even be. Closest would be Michael Pollan: Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Can't go wrong with that. (And btw, veggies contain carbs)
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Using the notion that because somebody might get sick and be a financial burden on the family as a reason to divorce, probably means all of us who are married should call a lawyer immediately.
I think it's a bit different when the sickness is self-inflicted.
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OP, so here's what I'm getting from you:
1. You're a smug know it all
2. who is emotionally and likely verbally abusing his spouse.
Your wife's problem is YOU.
+1. My goodness
+2
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There is confusion both among lay-folk and scientists alike about the difference between statistical significance and importance. A study could demonstrate that eggs have a statistically significant negative impact on some indicator of health, and the media would relay it as "eggs are bad." Meanwhile consumption of eggs is like the 5,000,000th most important determinant of morbidity. Then the discussion devolves into "my grand-daddy ate 2 dozen eggs every morning and lived to a hundred." OK... so what? Some things are only a tiny bit bad, it is not like someone is going to discover the diet of the 5 magic best foods that make you live forever. If you do not smoke and you maintain a low body fat you will probably live longer, everything else is YMMV, take it with a grain of salt (unless you are hypertensive).
Not everyone realises that science is, in fact, a social discourse. It is not objective. It is not fact. It is not ever 'done'.
On a philosophical level I agree with you. On a practical level, come on, it's the best we've got! Sure, there will be better ways to make fire in the future, doesn't mean we have to be content with banging two rocks together until the field is 'done'
However, this also fails to account for the fact that some scientific disciplines are extremely objective. Take chemistry as an example, I can write you a protocol that says "If you mix 1 mol of A with 1 mol of B you will get 2 mols of C." and you can go off and do exactly that. That protocol could care less about your cultural background or the like.
In my experience, published chemistry is something like 50% objectively true, 35% mostly true, 10% misinterpreted, and 5% completely fabricated. That is still better than many other disciplines. I imagine maybe something like anatomy must rely heavily on objective fact. You will not win too many arguments with "that I have both a right and left leg is a matter of opinion and perspective."
Also, getting back to OP's wife, at some point carbs are as addictive as cigarettes and alcohol. Basically if the pancreas and body cells are having issues with insulin, the blood sugar is on a roller-coaster and when it crashes, the person craves more carbs to get their blood sugar back to normal.
I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes. I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars. Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel. Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed. Which one is more addictive?
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Trust me, we won't suddenly have new research showing that smoking is good for you.
But we do - medicinal marijuana.
I'm willing to accept that there's a core science knowledge that's being continually extended, of course that's true. But humans are stupid and short term by nature. And the shit that we adopt as the latest and greatest is also stupid and short term.
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Trust me, we won't suddenly have new research showing that smoking is good for you.
But we do - medicinal marijuana.
I'm willing to accept that there's a core science knowledge that's being continually extended, of course that's true. But humans are stupid and short term by nature. And the shit that we adopt as the latest and greatest is also stupid and short term.
NHS advice is that smoking cannabis increases the risk of bronchitis, cardiovascular disease and stroke, and damages a foetus. Cannabis not smoked has both medical benefits and disbenefits. There's nothing to suggest that cannabis has to be smoked in order to get the benefits.
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There are three macro nutrients that all bodies need as fuel. Carbs, fat and protein. You can eat them in different proportions if you like, but it's absolute bullshit to say that carbs are addictive/cause cancer/will kill you. Yes, everyone who eats carbs will die, just like everyone who drinks water will die. Because everyone dies.
This doesn't mean that you can't improve your diet if it's not varied enough and doesn't include enough micro nutrients. But I'm so sick of people spewing nonsense when it comes to exercise and nutrition. It's not an exact science, what works for you may not work for someone else, moderation in anything is generally healthy and extremes should be avoided. There is no perfect way to eat, it would be impossible to determine what that would even be. Closest would be Michael Pollan: Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Can't go wrong with that. (And btw, veggies contain carbs)
I did say low carb, not no carb. Which means lots of vegetables because they contain a lot more nutrition than just calories. When I say high fat I am talking about things like essential fatty acids. Fats don't trigger insulin or glucagon, they are neutral, which is helpful if some has impaired insulin metabolism.
I don't know if OP's wife has been checked for Type 2 diabetes, but given his description she should be. What I was referring to is that if someone eats a lot of carbs in a meal that means the pancreas has to kick out more insulin, and that shoves the blood glucose into the cells. And then of course the blood glucose drops and the body wants more carbs to get it up again. A meal with a moderate amount of carbs won't start this cycle. A meal with a lot of vegetables as the carbs won't start this cycle, because most vegetables (except the starchy ones) don't have that many carbs, and they have lots of fibre so they are filling. What is appropriate depends on the person - if their pancreas and insulin and glucagon are normal, then they can eat more carbs. If they have already damaged their pancreas, and their cells are insulin-resistant, then they can't cope with the same level of carbs.
OP's wife is obviously not eating "normally" which is why I mentioned this possibility.
And re the cancer comment, no of course carbs can't cause cancer. But tumours tend to need a lot of glucose, their metabolism is impaired, so someone with high blood glucose is feeding their tumour. Someone with normal blood glucose is not feeding their tumour.
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I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes. I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars. Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel. Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed. Which one is more addictive?
Dried seaweed. That shit is awesome, and I could eat it all day. Baked potatoes suck until you load 'em up with butter, salt/pepper, and sour cream with chives.
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@RetiredAt63
"at some point carbs are as addictive as cigarettes and alcohol"
This specifically was what I disagreed with most, but I also didn't quote it because it's not just you who make the "carbs are bad" argument, both in this thread and in common diet discourse. I get annoyed by people who demonize entire food groups for no good reason, but thank you for the more detailed explanation.
We seem to be immersed in a sort of "diet culture" where the latest studies are spun into hyperbolic headlines and everyone has a naturopath selling them "cleanses", so people tend to get confused over what eating healthy actually means, and the whole topic of healthy eating becomes much more fraught and complicated than it needs to be. I am in favour of people with specific health issues getting tested to figure out what's going wrong, and maybe OPs wife is diabetic or prediabetic and should cut down on sugar, but it's unnecessary for most people to go on a low carb diet and carbs in general are not evil.
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I suspect that what the OP's wife is hearing, at some level, is, "You're fat, you're ugly, I'm better than you, I hate you."
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Trust me, we won't suddenly have new research showing that smoking is good for you.
But we do - medicinal marijuana.
I'm willing to accept that there's a core science knowledge that's being continually extended, of course that's true. But humans are stupid and short term by nature. And the shit that we adopt as the latest and greatest is also stupid and short term.
NHS advice is that smoking cannabis increases the risk of bronchitis, cardiovascular disease and stroke, and damages a foetus. Cannabis not smoked has both medical benefits and disbenefits. There's nothing to suggest that cannabis has to be smoked in order to get the benefits.
This debate has just started up again in Australia with the Greens Party releasing a policy of de-criminalising cannabis use.
Sure I can accept that medicinal marijuana has a place, and is currently used (on the quiet) for pain relief. However the chief medical scientist here has said they cannot support it due to other inherent risks such as the increased likelihood of developing psychosis and other mental illnesses.
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There are two things here:
1. Your wife enjoys junk food and doesn't like exercising.
2. You're behaving in an unbelievably controlling and borderline abusive manner.
There's close to zero equivalence between these. If this is how you come across when describing and justifying your own behaviour, I can't even imagine how unpleasant the reality is. You called your wife's employer to complain that you'd prefer for her to quit and be more in line with what you expect of a spouse? This is, unless there's a truly colossal mitigating factor that you've totally failed to mention, WAY THE FUCK OUT OF LINE.
This is not a problem with your wife. This is a problem with you. If your wife wants to eat junk food and watch Netflix, that's her prerogative. If you can't stomach that, split up. I wasn't exaggerating earlier when I described your behaviour as borderline abusive: your description of your own actions is setting off alarm bells in my brain.
Unless your wife is 600lbs and has a life expectancy of fifty, what you're doing is almost certainly completely unacceptable. What you're describing is not normal behaviour: read some descriptions of controlling behaviour and ask yourself how an independent viewer would assess you against them. Back way the fuck up, and go take a long hard look in the mirror. The problem in your relationship is not that your wife likes junk food and TV; the problem is that you appear to be engaging in emotional abuse.
+1 and we can remove the word ‘borderline’
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The point being that the OP is taking a certain stance as absolute fact, with a pre determined outcome. It's anything but. The OP is sadly misinformed. Statistically, the OP is likely to die before his wife, fact, at least from one perspective.
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I've seen some good advice interspersed throughout this thread.
If you really want to help her make a change you can't have her only do the things you want to do (drastic change in diet, going to the gym, etc). You are going to have to find ways to make healthier food more interesting to her and engage in activities she can enjoy. My wife isn't a fan of hitting the gym and lifting weights, but she loves to ride a bicycle or even playing "Pokemon Go" gets us moving around and doing something that gets you focused on "goals" that are accomplished by walking around.
...and yeah, the happiness thing is a big factor for both of you.
As an aside - can you guys cut it out with the bullshit anecdotes of people living to 105 while smoking 3 packs of pall malls a day and eating a 1/2 lb of bacon every meal while guzzling a gallon of beer. These type of anecdotes are just a lame attempt to rail against "healthier" lifestyles, but are really just evidence of individuals with remarkable systems able to compensate for quite a bit of environmental damage and definitely not an indentifier of how we should all be living longer healthier lives. You might as well tell us about someone winning the lottery and we have no need to save for retirement, because "hey, the lottery!!!"
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The point being that the OP is taking a certain stance as absolute fact, with a pre determined outcome. It's anything but. The OP is sadly misinformed. Statistically, the OP is likely to die before his wife, fact, at least from one perspective.
I don't think you have the necessary "stats" to back that claim up. You'd need a much greater level of detail on the OPs health and family history and at this point, from the limited evidence that has been presented (OP's wife's family history) it doesn't seem like your assertion will hold.
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The fact that you brought up how much money you spent on gym memberships and exercise equipment as evidence of how you love your wife is troubling. I doubt that those "gifts" made your wife feel loved; they probably made her feel ashamed that she yet again wasn't living up to your expectations.
Hopefully this health scare will be a turning point for her. But whether or not it is - BACK OFF! Apologize for calling her supervisor. Treat her like an adult who can make her own decisions. If she expresses a desire to get healthier, support her, but let her take the lead on what changes she does or doesn't want to make.
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As an aside - can you guys cut it out with the bullshit anecdotes of people living to 105 while smoking 3 packs of pall malls a day and eating a 1/2 lb of bacon every meal while guzzling a gallon of beer. These type of anecdotes are just a lame attempt to rail against "healthier" lifestyles, but are really just evidence of individuals with remarkable systems able to compensate for quite a bit of environmental damage and definitely not an indentifier of how we should all be living longer healthier lives. You might as well tell us about someone winning the lottery and we have no need to save for retirement, because "hey, the lottery!!!"
The doctors' saying is, "your genetics loads the gun, your behaviour pulls the trigger."
None of which has anything to do with the fact that this thread is not a good example of how to speak publicly about your spouse if you wish to improve your marriage. It could be important issues, it could be trivialities. It could be health, finances, what school the kids should go to, whether one spouse is having too intimate conversations with someone else, who should do the dishes tonight - it doesn't matter. Once you speak of your spouse with public contempt, things aren't going in a good direction. And that's why I suggested the guy log off and make an effort to show love, respect, caring and desire for his wife.
This does not mean that people should never have difficult conversations with their spouse, quite the contrary. It does mean they should never show contempt for them, neither privately nor publicly. Again: what does the OP think his wife would feel if she read his posts in this thread?
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You being up an important point. I am sure I could do a better job about this, but I try to speak of my spouse in a way that I would be fine with him overhearing if he were there. That isn’t always possible, but it is a good goal.
The other week my husband butt-dialed me several times while on a walk with a neighbor. At one point I listened in out of curiosity for a little bit as he talked about what was going on in our lives and shared some things I had said. As I expected, everything he said was utterly respectful of me. It reinforced how lucky I feel to have him as my husband. I also called him up to let him know just his butt was dialing me so he could stop it. :)
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OP, your wife is not going to change, period. As others have posted, at this point your choice is either to accept her as she is (and continue dealing with the consequences), or leave. Being locked in this endless struggle to get her to take care of herself sounds fruitless and exhausting, and can't be healthy for you, your wife, or your children.
I think it's perfectly legitimate to end a relationship -- even a marriage -- if you lose respect for your partner because they're abusing their body.
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I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes. I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars. Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel. Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed. Which one is more addictive?
Dried seaweed. That shit is awesome, and I could eat it all day. Baked potatoes suck until you load 'em up with butter, salt/pepper, and sour cream with chives.
I am so excited... this is the first time I am going to be able to disagree with GuitarStv and win (who BTW is the best debater on this forum.)
Try homegrown, heirloom potatoes.
No need for any toppings, additives or enhancers.
Pure bliss.
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Potatoes are so good, they're an honorary meat.
The OP has probably removed potatoes from his diet as they would dilute his purity of essence.
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The point being that the OP is taking a certain stance as absolute fact, with a pre determined outcome. It's anything but. The OP is sadly misinformed. Statistically, the OP is likely to die before his wife, fact, at least from one perspective.
I don't think you have the necessary "stats" to back that claim up. You'd need a much greater level of detail on the OPs health and family history and at this point, from the limited evidence that has been presented (OP's wife's family history) it doesn't seem like your assertion will hold.
Statistically, men have a shorter life span than women. Fact. It's one perspective. Like the OP's, and just as erroneous when you try to apply these things to one individual.
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The point being that the OP is taking a certain stance as absolute fact, with a pre determined outcome. It's anything but. The OP is sadly misinformed. Statistically, the OP is likely to die before his wife, fact, at least from one perspective.
I don't think you have the necessary "stats" to back that claim up. You'd need a much greater level of detail on the OPs health and family history and at this point, from the limited evidence that has been presented (OP's wife's family history) it doesn't seem like your assertion will hold.
Statistically, men have a shorter life span than women. Fact. It's one perspective. Like the OP's, and just as erroneous when you try to apply these things to one individual.
Anecdotally, obesity is a more serious problem in men than women: fat men die earlier than fat women. Check out any retirement home, residential home or nursing home for the (yes, I know, anecdotal) evidence: there will always be fat women who are older than the fat men.
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I agree with Jax8- I don’t do a low carb but I do a vegan diet. To hear vegans talk you would think it would be life shattering, dropping weight, boundless energy, etc. haha nope. I’m a chubby vegan and I feel pretty much the same as I always have. I stick with it for the animals and the good feelings about lowering my carbon footprint. But really...even adding tons of veggies and fruits to my diet hasn’t made me go “wow! I feel great!”
French fries and skittles are vegan fare, haha! If you're a chubby vegan it's for the same reason you were chubby before going vegan. You're eating enough calories to maintain those fat stores. The reason why many people lose weight when they switch over to a vegan diet is because they go from very calorie dense, nutrient poor foods to nutrient rich, low calorie foods. A hot pocket is like 700+ cals. A cup up brown rice, 1/2 cup of beans and a big portion of broc in a bowl is like 500+. Both will fill you up but one has less cals and more nutrients.
Continue this trend through the day and you are probably switching from 2800-3000 cals a day to 2200-2400, you will drop weight and you will have more energy.
To agree with your point, there is no magic bullet but there are right and wrong ways to do things if your goal is to lose weight and be healthy vs just making an ethical diet choice. If you're interested in the former jump on FB and search for Evolving Alpha, Fraser and Laura can help you. No that isn't me nor do I get any referral bonus. ;)
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I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes. I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars. Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel. Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed. Which one is more addictive?
Dried seaweed. That shit is awesome, and I could eat it all day. Baked potatoes suck until you load 'em up with butter, salt/pepper, and sour cream with chives.
I am so excited... this is the first time I am going to be able to disagree with GuitarStv and win (who BTW is the best debater on this forum.)
Try homegrown, heirloom potatoes.
No need for any toppings, additives or enhancers.
Pure bliss.
N’ah. I’m with GuitarStv on this.
Baked potatoes just suck, and I like almost everything.
I lack the baked potato appreciating gene. They taste to me like damp sawdust in a singed paper bag.
At the risk of being accused of hijacking this thread...
Try baking them on a BBQ with no foil, just oil, salt and pepper. The skin crisps up and the inside is really meaty.
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I always wonder if people who claim to need a lot of carbs have ever tried substituting high carb veggies like beets or sweet potatoes. I think the object of the addictiveness is not carbs in general, maybe a combination of salt and oil and simple sugars. Easy test would be to eat a whole baked potato and see how it makes you feel. Then try eating a pack of dried seaweed. Which one is more addictive?
Dried seaweed. That shit is awesome, and I could eat it all day. Baked potatoes suck until you load 'em up with butter, salt/pepper, and sour cream with chives.
I am so excited... this is the first time I am going to be able to disagree with GuitarStv and win (who BTW is the best debater on this forum.)
Try homegrown, heirloom potatoes.
No need for any toppings, additives or enhancers.
Pure bliss.
N’ah. I’m with GuitarStv on this.
Baked potatoes just suck, and I like almost everything.
I lack the baked potato appreciating gene. They taste to me like damp sawdust in a singed paper bag.
At the risk of being accused of hijacking this thread...
Try baking them on a BBQ with no foil, just oil, salt and pepper. The skin crisps up and the inside is really meaty.
I make them with season salt and a very small amount of oil in an air fryer. AWESOME.
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I agree with Jax8- I don’t do a low carb but I do a vegan diet. To hear vegans talk you would think it would be life shattering, dropping weight, boundless energy, etc. haha nope. I’m a chubby vegan and I feel pretty much the same as I always have. I stick with it for the animals and the good feelings about lowering my carbon footprint. But really...even adding tons of veggies and fruits to my diet hasn’t made me go “wow! I feel great!”
French fries and skittles are vegan fare, haha! If you're a chubby vegan it's for the same reason you were chubby before going vegan. You're eating enough calories to maintain those fat stores. The reason why many people lose weight when they switch over to a vegan diet is because they go from very calorie dense, nutrient poor foods to nutrient rich, low calorie foods. A hot pocket is like 700+ cals. A cup up brown rice, 1/2 cup of beans and a big portion of broc in a bowl is like 500+. Both will fill you up but one has less cals and more nutrients.
Continue this trend through the day and you are probably switching from 2800-3000 cals a day to 2200-2400, you will drop weight and you will have more energy.
To agree with your point, there is no magic bullet but there are right and wrong ways to do things if your goal is to lose weight and be healthy vs just making an ethical diet choice. If you're interested in the former jump on FB and search for Evolving Alpha, Fraser and Laura can help you. No that isn't me nor do I get any referral bonus. ;)
A meatball hot pocket is 310 calories
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I agree with Jax8- I don’t do a low carb but I do a vegan diet. To hear vegans talk you would think it would be life shattering, dropping weight, boundless energy, etc. haha nope. I’m a chubby vegan and I feel pretty much the same as I always have. I stick with it for the animals and the good feelings about lowering my carbon footprint. But really...even adding tons of veggies and fruits to my diet hasn’t made me go “wow! I feel great!”
French fries and skittles are vegan fare, haha! If you're a chubby vegan it's for the same reason you were chubby before going vegan. You're eating enough calories to maintain those fat stores. The reason why many people lose weight when they switch over to a vegan diet is because they go from very calorie dense, nutrient poor foods to nutrient rich, low calorie foods. A hot pocket is like 700+ cals. A cup up brown rice, 1/2 cup of beans and a big portion of broc in a bowl is like 500+. Both will fill you up but one has less cals and more nutrients.
Continue this trend through the day and you are probably switching from 2800-3000 cals a day to 2200-2400, you will drop weight and you will have more energy.
To agree with your point, there is no magic bullet but there are right and wrong ways to do things if your goal is to lose weight and be healthy vs just making an ethical diet choice. If you're interested in the former jump on FB and search for Evolving Alpha, Fraser and Laura can help you. No that isn't me nor do I get any referral bonus. ;)
A meatball hot pocket is 310 calories
A pepperoni pizza one is 700+ calories, and the first result you get when you google 'hot pocket nutritional value'. ;)
FWIW you could lose weight making that kind of swap. There is the infamous 'twinkie diet' that illustrates this point. Obviously it isn't optimal from a long term health perspective which is the point here.
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If you want to lose weight while still feeling full, eat a large raw beet before every meal. The sheer quantity of beet sitting in your stomach will make you feel full for the rest of the meal, so you won't be able to pack too much away. Raw beet is super chewy, so it forces you to eat slowly which kills that drive to overeat that you get for the first 15 minutes of a meal. The flavour of the raw beet is pretty intense, so you'll drink a lot of water to wash it down (again filling you up). Also, beets are good for you.
This is one of the things I used to do to reduce the starving feeling when cutting weight for wrestling.
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If you want to lose weight while still feeling full, eat a large raw beet before every meal. The sheer quantity of beet sitting in your stomach will make you feel full for the rest of the meal, so you won't be able to pack too much away. Raw beet is super chewy, so it forces you to eat slowly which kills that drive to overeat that you get for the first 15 minutes of a meal. The flavour of the raw beet is pretty intense, so you'll drink a lot of water to wash it down (again filling you up). Also, beets are good for you.
This is one of the things I used to do to reduce the starving feeling when cutting weight for wrestling.
Nothing like having constant purple pee!
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If you want to lose weight while still feeling full, eat a large raw beet before every meal. The sheer quantity of beet sitting in your stomach will make you feel full for the rest of the meal, so you won't be able to pack too much away. Raw beet is super chewy, so it forces you to eat slowly which kills that drive to overeat that you get for the first 15 minutes of a meal. The flavour of the raw beet is pretty intense, so you'll drink a lot of water to wash it down (again filling you up). Also, beets are good for you.
This is one of the things I used to do to reduce the starving feeling when cutting weight for wrestling.
Any alternative for people who can't stand the taste of beets?
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Nothing like having constant purple pee!
#PissingRainbows
If you want to lose weight while still feeling full, eat a large raw beet before every meal. The sheer quantity of beet sitting in your stomach will make you feel full for the rest of the meal, so you won't be able to pack too much away. Raw beet is super chewy, so it forces you to eat slowly which kills that drive to overeat that you get for the first 15 minutes of a meal. The flavour of the raw beet is pretty intense, so you'll drink a lot of water to wash it down (again filling you up). Also, beets are good for you.
This is one of the things I used to do to reduce the starving feeling when cutting weight for wrestling.
Any alternative for people who can't stand the taste of beets?
I hate the taste of beets. That's a plus . . . it will reduce your appetite immediately before eating a meal. The only concession I made to flavour was to peel the beets. Technically the skin is edible and dirt free if you scrub it . . . but it REALLY tastes like ass.
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How in the heck do you chew a raw beet? I can barely slice the damn things!
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How in the heck do you chew a raw beet? I can barely slice the damn things!
It's kinda got the texture of a very firm carrot.
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Nothing like eating something you hate at the beginning of each meal to help you lose weight. ;-)
I’m glad it isn’t just me; I can’t stand beets still and feel like I am the only one who hasn’t gotten over that childish whim
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Nothing like eating something you hate at the beginning of each meal to help you lose weight. ;-)
I’m glad it isn’t just me; I can’t stand beets still and feel like I am the only one who hasn’t gotten over that childish whim
Beets taste like you took some sugar and mixed it 50-50 with some fresh dirt from the garden. :P They do some pretty awesome stuff for your heart though, and I found them a very effective way to lose weight.
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Maybe it is a holdover from my childhood, but to me, beets have an additional beet-ish flavor that is more than sugar and more than dirt, and is gag-inducing when strong.
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Maybe it is a holdover from my childhood, but to me, beets have an additional beet-ish flavor that is more than sugar and more than dirt, and is gag-inducing when strong.
+1
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Nothing like eating something you hate at the beginning of each meal to help you lose weight. ;-)
I’m glad it isn’t just me; I can’t stand beets still and feel like I am the only one who hasn’t gotten over that childish whim
I think I'd rather just eat the dirt.
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Nothing like eating something you hate at the beginning of each meal to help you lose weight. ;-)
I’m glad it isn’t just me; I can’t stand beets still and feel like I am the only one who hasn’t gotten over that childish whim
I think I'd rather just eat the dirt.
+1
Punishing yourself daily eating shit that you hate isn't sustainable. How about finding an ultra low cal salad or veggie dish that you do like, and preceding a meal every day with that? Getting healthier should make you feel better, not like flogging yourself daily.
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I used to make a veggie dish (cooked!) that included beets, turnips, rutabaga, onion, garlic, and carrots. All roasted with olive oil and spices. It's pretty good, but I have since discovered it is even better if you add in some sausage.
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Haha. It’d probably be better with a little bacon too.....
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Haha. It’d probably be better with a little bacon too.....
Just leave out the beets, turnips, rutabaga, onion, garlic, and carrots for a much more pleasing dish. :P
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Haha. It’d probably be better with a little bacon too.....
Just leave out the beets, turnips, rutabaga, onion, garlic, and carrots for a much more pleasing dish. :P
I joke about the bacon, which is lovely, but in reality I would kill to be able to eat a huge salad right now. My diet is severely restricted for the moment because the baby I am nursing has a very sensitive stomach.
I’ve had to eliminate a lot of things like beans and broccoli and cabbage. I am SICK of meat and rices and would love to stuff myself with a bunch of green stuff.
Sigh.
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I agree with Jax8- I don’t do a low carb but I do a vegan diet. To hear vegans talk you would think it would be life shattering, dropping weight, boundless energy, etc. haha nope. I’m a chubby vegan and I feel pretty much the same as I always have. I stick with it for the animals and the good feelings about lowering my carbon footprint. But really...even adding tons of veggies and fruits to my diet hasn’t made me go “wow! I feel great!”
French fries and skittles are vegan fare, haha! If you're a chubby vegan it's for the same reason you were chubby before going vegan. You're eating enough calories to maintain those fat stores. The reason why many people lose weight when they switch over to a vegan diet is because they go from very calorie dense, nutrient poor foods to nutrient rich, low calorie foods. A hot pocket is like 700+ cals. A cup up brown rice, 1/2 cup of beans and a big portion of broc in a bowl is like 500+. Both will fill you up but one has less cals and more nutrients.
Continue this trend through the day and you are probably switching from 2800-3000 cals a day to 2200-2400, you will drop weight and you will have more energy.
To agree with your point, there is no magic bullet but there are right and wrong ways to do things if your goal is to lose weight and be healthy vs just making an ethical diet choice. If you're interested in the former jump on FB and search for Evolving Alpha, Fraser and Laura can help you. No that isn't me nor do I get any referral bonus. ;)
A meatball hot pocket is 310 calories
A pepperoni pizza one is 700+ calories, and the first result you get when you google 'hot pocket nutritional value'. ;)
FWIW you could lose weight making that kind of swap. There is the infamous 'twinkie diet' that illustrates this point. Obviously it isn't optimal from a long term health perspective which is the point here.
That's a 1/2lb hot pocket. Normal hot pockets are closer to 1/4lb.
I wish there were 1/2lb hot pockets when I was 10...
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Pop tarts and hot pockets made up a major portion of my diet for several years after college. I miss those tasty tender pockets.
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3-4 times a week I have a COOKED sweet potato.
For people who like them, it's an easy, nutritious, filling vegetable.
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I ate a sweet potato at breakfast today. :) Good and easy baby food as well
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I enjoy beets and sweet potatoes too much to eat them as an appetite suppressant.
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I have prepared beets 101 different ways. My CSA is beet-intensive. Roast them, people say. Shred them in salads. Steam them in foil packets. Stir fry them. No matter what I do to them, they still taste like aspartame spiked dirt.
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Haha!
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I enjoy beets and sweet potatoes too much to eat them as an appetite suppressant.
I know! Roasted beets, onions, garlic, sweet potatoes, and goat cheese...yum. Even one of my cats will eat the leftovers of that meal! You beet haters...:shakes head:
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Try the orange beets. They are milder.
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I enjoy beets and sweet potatoes too much to eat them as an appetite suppressant.
I know! Roasted beets, onions, garlic, sweet potatoes, and goat cheese...yum. Even one of my cats will eat the leftovers of that meal! You beet haters...:shakes head:
This with a balsamic reduction (usually found near the salad dressings) drizzled on top is one of my favorites.
Edit: Just double checked what thread this was. . .sorry for contributing to the off topic stream!
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That's a 1/2lb hot pocket. Normal hot pockets are closer to 1/4lb.
I wish there were 1/2lb hot pockets when I was 10...
I would say there is nothing normal about a hot pocket, but we'd still be missing the forest for the trees. :D
The triple crown of healthy weight loss or maintaining a lean body:
High volume, nutrient dense, low/mid calorie foods
Mid/Low cal foods that rank high on the satiety index (potatoes are KING as long as you skip tons of oil or butter)
Healthy fats in moderation to feel full. Avocados, small amounts of oils, nuts, etc.
Or you could eat just enough 1/4 hot pockets to stay under your caloric needs. :p
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I enjoy beets and sweet potatoes too much to eat them as an appetite suppressant.
I know! Roasted beets, onions, garlic, sweet potatoes, and goat cheese...yum. Even one of my cats will eat the leftovers of that meal! You beet haters...:shakes head:
This with a balsamic reduction (usually found near the salad dressings) drizzled on top is one of my favorites.
Edit: Just double checked what thread this was. . .sorry for contributing to the off topic stream!
oh this thread went off the rails long long ago.
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That's a 1/2lb hot pocket. Normal hot pockets are closer to 1/4lb.
I wish there were 1/2lb hot pockets when I was 10...
I would say there is nothing normal about a hot pocket, but we'd still be missing the forest for the trees. :D
The triple crown of healthy weight loss or maintaining a lean body:
High volume, nutrient dense, low/mid calorie foods
Mid/Low cal foods that rank high on the satiety index (potatoes are KING as long as you skip tons of oil or butter)
Healthy fats in moderation to feel full. Avocados, small amounts of oils, nuts, etc.
Or you could eat just enough 1/4 hot pockets to stay under your caloric needs. :p
Hmmm, what do hot pockets cost, $1? $10/day would be more than double my current grocery spend. That's a no go.
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Back (kind of) on the original topic, there is some evidence that reversing the order of calorie intake throughout the day improves basal metabolic rate, leading to greater weight loss. I read this article a few years ago that I thought was interesting: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/oby.20460 (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/oby.20460)
Objective
Few studies examined the association between time‐of‐day of nutrient intake and the metabolic syndrome. Our goal was to compare a weight loss diet with high caloric intake during breakfast to an isocaloric diet with high caloric intake at dinner.
Design and Methods
Overweight and obese women (BMI 32.4 ± 1.8 kg/m2) with metabolic syndrome were randomized into two isocaloric (∼1400 kcal) weight loss groups, a breakfast (BF) (700 kcal breakfast, 500 kcal lunch, 200 kcal dinner) or a dinner (D) group (200 kcal breakfast, 500 kcal lunch, 700 kcal dinner) for 12 weeks.
Results
The BF group showed greater weight loss and waist circumference reduction. Although fasting glucose, insulin, and ghrelin were reduced in both groups, fasting glucose, insulin, and HOMA‐IR decreased significantly to a greater extent in the BF group. Mean triglyceride levels decreased by 33.6% in the BF group, but increased by 14.6% in the D group. Oral glucose tolerance test led to a greater decrease of glucose and insulin in the BF group. In response to meal challenges, the overall daily glucose, insulin, ghrelin, and mean hunger scores were significantly lower, whereas mean satiety scores were significantly higher in the BF group.
Conclusions
High‐calorie breakfast with reduced intake at dinner is beneficial and might be a useful alternative for the management of obesity and metabolic syndrome.
Body weight decreased significantly (P < 0.0001) in both the BF and D groups over 12 weeks. However, compared with the D group, the BF group showed a 2.5-fold greater weight loss (-8.7 +/- 1.4 vs. -3.6 +/- 1.5 kg, respectively) (One-way ANOVA P < 0.0001)(Figure 1A, Table 2).
I hate the taste of beets. That's a plus . . . it will reduce your appetite immediately before eating a meal. The only concession I made to flavour was to peel the beets. Technically the skin is edible and dirt free if you scrub it . . . but it REALLY tastes like ass.
I used to peel a bunch of beets at once to minimize the amount of time it takes to wash out the deep red stains from my hands. Way too many "is that blood or beet juice" incidents to count... now I just cut them up w/skin and roast a big batch. Serve with roast pork butt for full ass-flavor experience ;P
I love the flavor of beets, but beet smoothies make me absolutely gag and immediately feel like I am going to throw up, so I get where other people are coming from.
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FWIW - If you eat an orange (or anything with citric acid) after peeling a beet, all the red will disappear from your fingers. It's some kind of food magic. :P
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Another good veg dish was beets (cooked) with sour cream. It turns a rather shocking shade of hot pink but it tastes pretty good.
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Calcium blocks absorption of iron though, so you're losing out on one of the benefits of eating beets.
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That may be true, but I'm more likely to actually eat them if I make them taste better.
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FWIW - If you eat an orange (or anything with citric acid) after peeling a beet, all the red will disappear from your fingers. It's some kind of food magic. :P
Great tip, I will try it. But oranges always seem to dry out my hands, anything I can peel to deal with that problem?
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Calcium blocks absorption of iron though, so you're losing out on one of the benefits of eating beets.
I didn't know this until I was diagnosed with hemochromatosis. Now I eat lots of calcium. But you won't find me eating any beets. Even with sour cream.
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FWIW - If you eat an orange (or anything with citric acid) after peeling a beet, all the red will disappear from your fingers. It's some kind of food magic. :P
Great tip, I will try it. But oranges always seem to dry out my hands, anything I can peel to deal with that problem?
Lemons or Grapefruit?
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I have struggled with depression and food addition all of my adult life so this resonates. Up until a week ago I was also on a very bad spiral and really felt like I'd be dead within a year. Unless you experience this, it's not easy to understand.
It doesn't work for all but maybe try hyponotism?
As for exercise, my joints have really taken a beating on the last binge fest, but I always find short walks and water aerobics is an easier way to ease into it.
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Ahahahhha, has anyone noticed that MMM thread quite often devovle into discussions about food? I think that says more about us as a community than anything else, given that the majority of threads on the net end in flames. We use our flames for BBQ, goddammit!
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I like the beets in salad bars (boiled? marinated?) but that's about it. I remember being criticized for putting too many beets on my salad, because someone said that beets had a a lot of calories. I notice if I eat a salad before the meal that helps. I get the munchies if I drink wine with dinner (makes everything taste better) so if I drink water with a meal then a herb tea, less likely to keep munching on stuff. That's all I got. I've never had to worry about my weight my entire life, except 2 years ago started driving regularly and so the lack of walking has made my weight creep up.
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I really had to post here, because in 5 pages, everyone has it wrong. Literally everyone, especially the OP.
The major point is that being overweight doesn't make you die young. That is a lie propagated by the diet industry, who make billions from it. A longitudinal study of over 100,000 people showed that normal weight, overweight, and obese people all have normal life expectancy. Underweight and morbidly obese people die
young. You have to be at least 100 lb overweight (or 10 lb underweight) for your life expectancy to be affected.
How do I know this? I've read many, many books on the subject; the interesting thing is how that study was actively ignored by everyone.
Second, one you've gained a lot of weight, odds are at least 100 to 1 that you can't lose it and keep it off. It's possible to lose some weight, but it takes all your energy to keep it off. Your whole life has to be devoted to keeping it off.
Third, the main risk factor for early death is social isolation. OP keeps telling her she's not okay, that her whole life is crap -- that sure sounds isolating. He wants her to quit her job and dump her friends, even worse.
The fact that she's dealing with the death of her father and the medical emergencies of her mother are mentioned once. No wonder her blood pressure is up! Of course she needs to be treated for that, and tested for diabetes, but saying she's killing herself? That's just abusive.
Slow, pleasant walks might help. Being kind and supportive during this terrible time would help. Constant nagging and criticism only make things worse.
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I really had to post here, because in 5 pages, everyone has it wrong. Literally everyone, especially the OP.
The major point is that being overweight doesn't make you die young. That is a lie propagated by the diet industry, who make billions from it. A longitudinal study of over 100,000 people showed that normal weight, overweight, and obese people all have normal life expectancy. Underweight and morbidly obese people die
young. You have to be at least 100 lb overweight (or 10 lb underweight) for your life expectancy to be affected.
How do I know this? I've read many, many books on the subject; the interesting thing is how that study was actively ignored by everyone.
Second, one you've gained a lot of weight, odds are at least 100 to 1 that you can't lose it and keep it off. It's possible to lose some weight, but it takes all your energy to keep it off. Your whole life has to be devoted to keeping it off.
Third, the main risk factor for early death is social isolation. OP keeps telling her she's not okay, that her whole life is crap -- that sure sounds isolating. He wants her to quit her job and dump her friends, even worse.
The fact that she's dealing with the death of her father and the medical emergencies of her mother are mentioned once. No wonder her blood pressure is up! Of course she needs to be treated for that, and tested for diabetes, but saying she's killing herself? That's just abusive.
Slow, pleasant walks might help. Being kind and supportive during this terrible time would help. Constant nagging and criticism only make things worse.
Can you post links to the articles or studies that verify this? When I google the main causes of premature death I get results like Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, etc. Not social isolation. And I do see many articles referring to studies on how obesity increases your chance of premature death, they don't say anything about having to be 100 lbs overweight but have a BMI in the obese category (depends on your height).
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Reading this thread made me angry and sad to associated with this type of community who, even after the OP responded saying that the doctors said, "said if I hadn't intervened, she most likely would not have survived today" and "She is thankful that I was persistent in caring about her health and called her boss" continue to post insensitive crap bashing the OP.
I wonder if all the self righteous folks posting vitriol against the OP would have congratulated him on how loving he was if his wife died at work (?).
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OP, my recommendation would be to try two things - first, involve yourself in things she likes doing. Suffer through some TV, whatever. That will give you a lot more "credibility" if you want her to do this:
Goodness me, this has been a busy thread today.
Once all the immediate emergency situation is over, here's my suggestion.
Instead of asking your wife to exercise, ask her to do something with you with love.
Tell her you love her very much and want to take long walks with her, holding her hand. Get a babysitter and pack a picnic lunch or dinner for yourselves and walk to (or at) a neighborhood park. Get a 2 person bicycle or, if you have kids, a bigger one that will hold the kids, too. A quadricycle. Go riding together, hold hands, listen and talk (in that order on the last 2!).
In other words, find a way for her to get exercise without it being "exercise". Make it full of love and fun and intimacy.
It's worth a try.
These sorts of things. I suspect in your mind "exercise" is very clearly something like gym, intense workouts, etc. But for her something like going for a walk is a great first step.
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I read this thread completely differently. OP's tone, use of terms like 'deal-breaker' and general disdain for spouse, sound like someone on their way out, perhaps already exploring a replacement.
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Reading this thread made me angry and sad to associated with this type of community who, even after the OP responded saying that the doctors said, "said if I hadn't intervened, she most likely would not have survived today" and "She is thankful that I was persistent in caring about her health and called her boss" continue to post insensitive crap bashing the OP.
I wonder if all the self righteous folks posting vitriol against the OP would have congratulated him on how loving he was if his wife died at work (?).
Nice false dichotomy you got going on there.
A person can be right and still be a jerk about how they deliver their message. And people don't like to listen to jerks. How we say things is important as what we say.
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It's been years since I read that particular study, so I can't be more specific, sorry. I have to say, looking online gets you very superficial information, you need books. Also the books need to be by experienced science writers, if not scientists or doctors, not by people selling something, not pop psychology or fake science. No mainstream media is a good source for science.
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I read this thread completely differently. OP's tone, use of terms like 'deal-breaker' and general disdain for spouse, sound like someone on their way out, perhaps already exploring a replacement.
He's a charmer, that's for sure. I did suggest he try a different approach, and speak of his wife in a loving and respectful manner, especially when speaking publicly. I don't think it went down well.
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It's been years since I read that particular study, so I can't be more specific, sorry. I have to say, looking online gets you very superficial information, you need books. Also the books need to be by experienced science writers, if not scientists or doctors, not by people selling something, not pop psychology or fake science. No mainstream media is a good source for science.
In my experience, Nutritionfacts.org is trustworthy. I've read through probably dozens of the studies that Dr. Greger cites in his articles and videos on this site - and have been happy to see that he represents the findings truthfully. He looks at industry sponsored studies, but relies on well executed studies done by independent scientists. Highly recommend.
The site is 100% ad free run as a non-profit. His book, 'How Not to Die' is excellent as well.
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I really had to post here, because in 5 pages, everyone has it wrong. Literally everyone, especially the OP.
The major point is that being overweight doesn't make you die young. That is a lie propagated by the diet industry, who make billions from it. A longitudinal study of over 100,000 people showed that normal weight, overweight, and obese people all have normal life expectancy. Underweight and morbidly obese people die
young. You have to be at least 100 lb overweight (or 10 lb underweight) for your life expectancy to be affected.
How do I know this? I've read many, many books on the subject; the interesting thing is how that study was actively ignored by everyone.
Second, one you've gained a lot of weight, odds are at least 100 to 1 that you can't lose it and keep it off. It's possible to lose some weight, but it takes all your energy to keep it off. Your whole life has to be devoted to keeping it off.
Third, the main risk factor for early death is social isolation. OP keeps telling her she's not okay, that her whole life is crap -- that sure sounds isolating. He wants her to quit her job and dump her friends, even worse.
The fact that she's dealing with the death of her father and the medical emergencies of her mother are mentioned once. No wonder her blood pressure is up! Of course she needs to be treated for that, and tested for diabetes, but saying she's killing herself? That's just abusive.
Slow, pleasant walks might help. Being kind and supportive during this terrible time would help. Constant nagging and criticism only make things worse.
Can you post links to the articles or studies that verify this? When I google the main causes of premature death I get results like Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, etc. Not social isolation. And I do see many articles referring to studies on how obesity increases your chance of premature death, they don't say anything about having to be 100 lbs overweight but have a BMI in the obese category (depends on your height).
Here is the study in question:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137
The study broke apart class 1 obesity (BMI of 30 to 35) and class 2 and 3 obesity (BMI of 35 to 40 and BMI over 40, respectively) and found that the overweight and class 1 obese categories were less likely to die than the normal weight categories. The hazard ratios are 0.94 for overweight and 0.95 for class 1 obesity, so it's reasonable to say the effect is pretty small and basically normal weight, overweight, and class 1 obese people have pretty equivalent all-cause mortality.
All that said, I think it's safe to say that there are healthy people in every weight category and people with controllable risk factors in every weight category. I don't think it's fair to the OP to say his wife is just fine because statistically she's not more likely to die, when in fact she just had a serious hypertensive crisis brought on at least partially by health behaviors. I think it's important to separate health behaviors from weight. Poor diet and exercise are not limited to the overweight and obese, and have plenty of measurable impact on health. The single best thing you can do for your health and longevity is physical activity, irrespective of weight.
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Diabetes is STRONGLY associated with cardiac events, neuropathy, blindness and early death. Uncontrolled diabetes is all of that to a much higher degree. It doesn't matter if people with a BMI of 30-35 on average live longer. If you have uncontrolled diabetes you will die younger.
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The study shows that "overweight" in the standard definitions is not associated with early death, and this is particularly so for women for whom there is no association with death at slightly higher levels of overweight. That accords with my anecdotal observations. Obesity overall is associated with early death, the greater the level of obesity the higher the levels of early death.
As pointed out by fuzzy math, morbidity (ie illness and disability) in the obese is a bigger problem than early death. The obese who do not die early spend longer living with more debilitating conditions.
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I really had to post here, because in 5 pages, everyone has it wrong. Literally everyone, especially the OP.
The major point is that being overweight doesn't make you die young. That is a lie propagated by the diet industry, who make billions from it. A longitudinal study of over 100,000 people showed that normal weight, overweight, and obese people all have normal life expectancy. Underweight and morbidly obese people die
young. You have to be at least 100 lb overweight (or 10 lb underweight) for your life expectancy to be affected.
How do I know this? I've read many, many books on the subject; the interesting thing is how that study was actively ignored by everyone.
Second, one you've gained a lot of weight, odds are at least 100 to 1 that you can't lose it and keep it off. It's possible to lose some weight, but it takes all your energy to keep it off. Your whole life has to be devoted to keeping it off.
Third, the main risk factor for early death is social isolation. OP keeps telling her she's not okay, that her whole life is crap -- that sure sounds isolating. He wants her to quit her job and dump her friends, even worse.
The fact that she's dealing with the death of her father and the medical emergencies of her mother are mentioned once. No wonder her blood pressure is up! Of course she needs to be treated for that, and tested for diabetes, but saying she's killing herself? That's just abusive.
Slow, pleasant walks might help. Being kind and supportive during this terrible time would help. Constant nagging and criticism only make things worse.
Can you post links to the articles or studies that verify this? When I google the main causes of premature death I get results like Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, etc. Not social isolation. And I do see many articles referring to studies on how obesity increases your chance of premature death, they don't say anything about having to be 100 lbs overweight but have a BMI in the obese category (depends on your height).
Here is the study in question:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137
The study broke apart class 1 obesity (BMI of 30 to 35) and class 2 and 3 obesity (BMI of 35 to 40 and BMI over 40, respectively) and found that the overweight and class 1 obese categories were less likely to die than the normal weight categories. The hazard ratios are 0.94 for overweight and 0.95 for class 1 obesity, so it's reasonable to say the effect is pretty small and basically normal weight, overweight, and class 1 obese people have pretty equivalent all-cause mortality.
All that said, I think it's safe to say that there are healthy people in every weight category and people with controllable risk factors in every weight category. I don't think it's fair to the OP to say his wife is just fine because statistically she's not more likely to die, when in fact she just had a serious hypertensive crisis brought on at least partially by health behaviors. I think it's important to separate health behaviors from weight. Poor diet and exercise are not limited to the overweight and obese, and have plenty of measurable impact on health. The single best thing you can do for your health and longevity is physical activity, irrespective of weight.
It's an interesting study, but suffers from the same problem that all BMI stuff suffers from. The people in the BMI 30 - 35 range are really two very distinct groups - those who are fat, and those are fit but carrying a lot of muscle (football players, body builders, etc.). One would assume that the very muscular/athletic folks would show lower mortality rates than the fat folks. I'd be really interested to see the same study done removing the fit people (or at least a breakdown of the BMI group showing muscle mass so we could see what percentage of the 'obese' group isn't actually obese at all).
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Finally, some people pointing out that being fat does not mean instant death! Thanks, everyone, for tracking down the relevant studies. Another way to look at it is that life expectancy has been going steadily up despite skyrocketing obesity. It's gone down recently, but most people attribute that to the opioid crisis.
Also, diabetes and heart disease are very common in older people, including plenty who are thin and fit. The idea is to manage these diseases; the OP's wife had trouble with that, probably at least partially due to 15 years of constant nagging and criticism.
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I'm hoping the OP will come back and give us an update on his wife. I'd like to know how she is doing.
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Finally, some people pointing out that being fat does not mean instant death! Thanks, everyone, for tracking down the relevant studies. Another way to look at it is that life expectancy has been going steadily up despite skyrocketing obesity. It's gone down recently, but most people attribute that to the opioid crisis.
Also, diabetes and heart disease are very common in older people, including plenty who are thin and fit. The idea is to manage these diseases; the OP's wife had trouble with that, probably at least partially due to 15 years of constant nagging and criticism.
Hey I'm fat (BMI 31 boo Yeah), it's not like we're all fat shaming here with nothing to back it up
I will tell you that the 2 sets of things you're talking about have nothing to do with each other. Yes life expectancy is going up, but it's going up amongst the segment of the population who has been lucky enough to already live to their 70s and 80s, i.e. the thin and healthy. The segment of the population who is experiencing a huge surge in obesity is not that age group / generation. Obese people (especially those w a BMI over 35) do not make it to their 70s-80s. I work in cardiac surgery and we see the super obese having their first heart attacks in their 30s-50s. Thinner people tend to make it to their 60s-70s (and of course their are outliers). But for the vast majority of people, these things run true. The elderly actually eat less and get thinner as they age, it's a huge issue getting proper nutrition for many people in their 80s.
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Finally, some people pointing out that being fat does not mean instant death! Thanks, everyone, for tracking down the relevant studies. Another way to look at it is that life expectancy has been going steadily up despite skyrocketing obesity. It's gone down recently, but most people attribute that to the opioid crisis.
Also, diabetes and heart disease are very common in older people, including plenty who are thin and fit. The idea is to manage these diseases; the OP's wife had trouble with that, probably at least partially due to 15 years of constant nagging and criticism.
I believe the fear of instant death was due to very high blood pressure.
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I really had to post here, because in 5 pages, everyone has it wrong. Literally everyone, especially the OP.
The major point is that being overweight doesn't make you die young. That is a lie propagated by the diet industry, who make billions from it. A longitudinal study of over 100,000 people showed that normal weight, overweight, and obese people all have normal life expectancy. Underweight and morbidly obese people die
young. You have to be at least 100 lb overweight (or 10 lb underweight) for your life expectancy to be affected.
How do I know this? I've read many, many books on the subject; the interesting thing is how that study was actively ignored by everyone.
Second, one you've gained a lot of weight, odds are at least 100 to 1 that you can't lose it and keep it off. It's possible to lose some weight, but it takes all your energy to keep it off. Your whole life has to be devoted to keeping it off.
Third, the main risk factor for early death is social isolation. OP keeps telling her she's not okay, that her whole life is crap -- that sure sounds isolating. He wants her to quit her job and dump her friends, even worse.
The fact that she's dealing with the death of her father and the medical emergencies of her mother are mentioned once. No wonder her blood pressure is up! Of course she needs to be treated for that, and tested for diabetes, but saying she's killing herself? That's just abusive.
Slow, pleasant walks might help. Being kind and supportive during this terrible time would help. Constant nagging and criticism only make things worse.
Can you post links to the articles or studies that verify this? When I google the main causes of premature death I get results like Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, etc. Not social isolation. And I do see many articles referring to studies on how obesity increases your chance of premature death, they don't say anything about having to be 100 lbs overweight but have a BMI in the obese category (depends on your height).
Here is the study in question:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137
The study broke apart class 1 obesity (BMI of 30 to 35) and class 2 and 3 obesity (BMI of 35 to 40 and BMI over 40, respectively) and found that the overweight and class 1 obese categories were less likely to die than the normal weight categories. The hazard ratios are 0.94 for overweight and 0.95 for class 1 obesity, so it's reasonable to say the effect is pretty small and basically normal weight, overweight, and class 1 obese people have pretty equivalent all-cause mortality.
All that said, I think it's safe to say that there are healthy people in every weight category and people with controllable risk factors in every weight category. I don't think it's fair to the OP to say his wife is just fine because statistically she's not more likely to die, when in fact she just had a serious hypertensive crisis brought on at least partially by health behaviors. I think it's important to separate health behaviors from weight. Poor diet and exercise are not limited to the overweight and obese, and have plenty of measurable impact on health. The single best thing you can do for your health and longevity is physical activity, irrespective of weight.
Thanks for the article. I think I have been assuming that people who are overweight and obese are not exercising or eating healthy but also that somehow the fat itself was causing or contributing to these health problems. I looks like that may not be the case or it may be not as big of a contributing factor as I thought. It sounds like people who are overweight/obese can eat a healthy diet (maybe they just eat more food or have slower metabolism) and get regular exercise and be as healthy as a thin person who does the same activities. That is good news as some people seem to do everything right (exercise and eat healthy) but not lose weight.
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Finally, some people pointing out that being fat does not mean instant death! Thanks, everyone, for tracking down the relevant studies. Another way to look at it is that life expectancy has been going steadily up despite skyrocketing obesity. It's gone down recently, but most people attribute that to the opioid crisis.
Also, diabetes and heart disease are very common in older people, including plenty who are thin and fit. The idea is to manage these diseases; the OP's wife had trouble with that, probably at least partially due to 15 years of constant nagging and criticism.
Hey I'm fat (BMI 31 boo Yeah), it's not like we're all fat shaming here with nothing to back it up
I will tell you that the 2 sets of things you're talking about have nothing to do with each other. Yes life expectancy is going up, but it's going up amongst the segment of the population who has been lucky enough to already live to their 70s and 80s, i.e. the thin and healthy. The segment of the population who is experiencing a huge surge in obesity is not that age group / generation. Obese people (especially those w a BMI over 35) do not make it to their 70s-80s. I work in cardiac surgery and we see the super obese having their first heart attacks in their 30s-50s. Thinner people tend to make it to their 60s-70s (and of course their are outliers). But for the vast majority of people, these things run true. The elderly actually eat less and get thinner as they age, it's a huge issue getting proper nutrition for many people in their 80s.
You've right that there are two sets of survival curves, but not exactly in the way you are describing. Older people (over 50) who are Class 2/Class 3 obese and older people who start off normal weight but become underweight as they age actually have substantially reduced survival. Everyone else (the normal weight who stay stable or gain weight, the overweight and the Class 1 obese) are on a second, longer survival curve.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3842899/
I think there's a lot of popular opinion out there that being obese is a death sentence, which is not borne out by the data in such neat, easy terms. Class 2 and 3 obesity are categorically different from overweight and class 1 obesity. I think it's really important to get that message out, because while it might not be realistic for a 250 lb person to weigh 160 lbs, it might be totally reasonable for them to lose 10% of their body weight and move into class 1 obesity, substantially improving their risk profile.
What is clear is that certain chronic conditions can be substantially improved by lifestyle choices, and that is much (MUCH!) more important than the number on the scale.
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Medication can slow down your metabolism too. I developed a erratic, too fast heartbeat at 50 despite not being overweight and walking 6 miles/day. I am on a beta blocker. It slows down my metabolism and I am 40lbs overweight despite nothing else changing. I also have to really watch what I eat now to since I gain weight easily now.
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I skipped all the pages except the first, but I'll throw this out there:
When I find myself reverting to bad habits, I can usually break the cycle in 3 days. Three days. But those three days take a lot of work. Can you help her through those first three days? I suggest:
1. Because you seem like a low-carb advocate, get her to agree to doing low-carb for a few days. Convince her with the "unlimited fatty food" if that is still a thing. Buy the food, let her sit on the sofa and eat pig-skins (that seems to be what my friends who tried Atkins ate), provide healthy meals and unlimited snacks. Make them for her. Make them easily accessible. Every 2 or 3 hours. never let her get hungry. By the 4th day, my bet is that she'll lose that "carb addiction" and start to feel better. Then talk about how to proceed to the next step.
2. Possibly join a meal prep service for the family and get the kids involved in cooking and prep. (don't worry about the money when the alternative is worse)
3. Possibly join a diet delivery service like South Beach Diet or Nutrisystem for your spouse for a month or two. Expensive? yes, but it can help people get back on track.
4. plan a vacation to a spa-like destination. I recommend Miraval Ranch or Canyon Ranch. Lots of healthy activities and mindfulness to choose from in a non-judgemental setting.
I know all of these things are very spendy. If there is something you think might work, the money is worth it. Please forget about "will-power" and "laziness". She needs a jump start and for that she needs help. And she may not want it or accept it. if that's the case, then anything else you do could just drive her further into dark place.
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People do what they do for a reason. Eating carbs and sugar releases dopamine, the feel good hormone. It's an addiction. By badgering, humiliating and belittling her you are making her feel shittier than she already does, and you are compounding the situation. Trust me, she doesn't like being fat. No-one does. It's not socially acceptable.
Try a little understanding and empathy. Try honouring your marriage vows. If you can't do that she is better off without you.
I'm guessing that you didn't read the OP's explanations of the full situation.
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People do what they do for a reason. Eating carbs and sugar releases dopamine, the feel good hormone. It's an addiction. By badgering, humiliating and belittling her you are making her feel shittier than she already does, and you are compounding the situation. Trust me, she doesn't like being fat. No-one does. It's not socially acceptable.
Try a little understanding and empathy. Try honouring your marriage vows. If you can't do that she is better off without you.
I'm guessing that you didn't read the OP's explanations of the full situation.
Rightflyer, if you disregard the health crisis, does that make the OP's behavior ok? The only reason everyone started giving him a pass was because his wife ended up in the hospital. Yeah, she's eating poorly and everything else. But that doesn't mean that the OP's behavior was good or helpful.
I still maintain that he's abusing his wife - verbally or emotionally, doesn't matter. The fact that her health is so bad is a side effect of OP's abuse. She's probably better off without him, and I sincerely hope that either he fixes his behavior or she leaves him.
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People do what they do for a reason. Eating carbs and sugar releases dopamine, the feel good hormone. It's an addiction. By badgering, humiliating and belittling her you are making her feel shittier than she already does, and you are compounding the situation. Trust me, she doesn't like being fat. No-one does. It's not socially acceptable.
Try a little understanding and empathy. Try honouring your marriage vows. If you can't do that she is better off without you.
I'm guessing that you didn't read the OP's explanations of the full situation.
Rightflyer, if you disregard the health crisis, does that make the OP's behavior ok? The only reason everyone started giving him a pass was because his wife ended up in the hospital. Yeah, she's eating poorly and everything else. But that doesn't mean that the OP's behavior was good or helpful.
I still maintain that he's abusing his wife - verbally or emotionally, doesn't matter. The fact that her health is so bad is a side effect of OP's abuse. She's probably better off without him, and I sincerely hope that either he fixes his behavior or she leaves him.
I sensed a lot of frustration and fear from his post. There is no way to know whether his actions toward her were abusive or not. The call to her employer was during an emergency situation, and it turned out he was right to be fearful for her. Are you always patient and rational when you're scared and exasperated?
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Incredible that people are shaming the OP. His wife is committing suicide in slow motion, he's tried everything, and he's obviously desperate to do something.
I'll flip the calling work thing around: If one of you had a spouse who was literally dying and you weren't willing to call their workplace if you thought it could save their life, then you are a bad person.
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Would the same rules about committing suicide in slow motion also apply to someone with a pack a day habit? Smoking is no less damaging to one's health and overeating, and the logic that you can save a person's life by forcing them to quit would still apply. Yet, I suspect that few people call the place of employment of their smoking spouse to discuss the ramifications of the situation with spouses supervisor.
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Would the same rules about committing suicide in slow motion also apply to someone with a pack a day habit? Smoking is no less damaging to one's health and overeating, and the logic that you can save a person's life by forcing them to quit would still apply. Yet, I suspect that few people call the place of employment of their smoking spouse to discuss the ramifications of the situation with spouses supervisor.
That is only comparable if the smoker is not able to get enough oxygen in their bloodstream and needs immediate O2, but is ignoring that fact and ignoring it and proceeding to go to work.
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Has the OP given us any update?
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Was OP out of town when his wife had the medical emergency? Otherwise, if the situation was that desperate why did he wait until his wife went to work and called the employer? Why didn't he call for an ambulance when he got up in the morning to see to his wife? His opening post reads like either he thought the job was part of the problem, called the job to tell them so and he happened to be right that this day her health was bad enough to land her in the hospital, or he couldn't get his wife to see his point and called her job to get them to do it for him and this day her health was bad enough to land her in the hospital - more like a coincidence, not that the OP knew his wife was on the edge that day and intervened because it was life or death.
Also, if this were really considered suicide in slow motion, he could have her committed to a mental health facility. But no hospital would act on what he describes. While it may be self destructive, it's not suicidal.
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Has the OP given us any update?
Yes, search the OP's username on page 1.... though if I were the OP I'd probably never come back to these forums given the reception they got.
Thank you. I'm posting an update from the hospital. It turns out I may have saved my wife's life.
After I spoke with my wife's boss, she had a co-worker who is a part time paramedic check my wife's blood pressure, and it was so high, that they just called 911 and had an ambulance come and take her to the ER.
I spoke to the doctors at the ER, and they were shocked she hadn't come in sooner. They said if I hadn't intervened, she most likely would not have survived today. They said I was right to trust my instincts and follow up persistently.
My wife is now in the ER being administered by the doctors and nurses. She is thankful that I was persistent in caring about her health and called her boss. She had no idea her condition was so serious, even though other people had told her to go the ER and get addressed right away yesterday.
I can't believe the junk I'm seeing some of the other posters throw up. I'm being a control freak? You know what, if it means I care about my wife's heath over her salary, I'll take being a control freak and have my wife alive than dead. My kids would much prefer the same thing as well.
It's amazing how nasty some of these people get, assuming the worst and post the vitriol on here. I'm guessing these people are saints and absolutely do nothing wrong in life. I'm just astounded.
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I agree with Sibley and I urge him to divorce her.
$100 bucks says she gets healthy within a year of the divorce.
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I agree with Sibley and I urge him to divorce her.
$100 bucks says she gets healthy within a year of the divorce.
I agree.
A divorce is probably the kick in the butt she needs.
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Incredible that people are shaming the OP. His wife is committing suicide in slow motion, he's tried everything, and he's obviously desperate to do something.
I'll flip the calling work thing around: If one of you had a spouse who was literally dying and you weren't willing to call their workplace if you thought it could save their life, then you are a bad person.
I'll just remind you that Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are literally saving you from certain death if they can't convert you. Knowing that information makes me a little more sympathetic when they try to "save me" but I still get a little bit irked.
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I think to establish credentials here we may need everyone to post a recent photo (maybe holding a New York Times to establish date) of themselves. Full body. No baggy clothes, either.
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I think to establish credentials here we may need everyone to post a recent photo (maybe holding a New York Times to establish date) of themselves. Full body. No baggy clothes, either.
Well, I'd post my joke Christmas photo, of me in my greenhouse in a bikini, Santa hat, and snowboots. Except I'm holding a glass of wine, which doesn't really set the best example in the world.
In all seriousness, I just hope both halves of this couple are doing better right now. Very upsetting and stressful situation.
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Seems this thread has been stagnant for quite a while. Can OP catch us up on how your wife is doing?
I have a couple of suggestions.
1. First, can you find out what your wife's favorite foods are and the two of you work together to make a healthy version of her favorites? Spark People has lots of good recipes and weight loss help.
2. Second, can you encourage your wife to go on an evening walk together with you. Get step counters and work toward goals of a certain amount of steps and work up.
Tell her you would like to work on this health makeover with her. I have read about married couples working together to achieve weight loss. Look it up on line.
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i have a strategy that is counter to most of the suggestions in this thread. i was in a similar situation to OP's, not food related but i don't want to go into that much detail on a public forum.
the only thing that worked, after years of trying to change the behavior of another human being, was to give up and detach physically and emotionally. i stood in and picked up the slack with child rearing, cleaning the house and everything else that should have been shared. in a way it was positive because i'm much closer with my kid as a result.
detaching was the only way i could stay sane. continuing to care was making me literally crazy and sick. but when i made the decision to reduce contact, i began to make positive changes to my own routine and slowly gained my strength back. i changed my already pretty good diet to a stellar one. hit the gym, played more sports etc. basically only spoke to the other half for functional things like who's in charge of the kid and what obligations we have outside the home. it's important to note that this was strictly a strategy for my own mental health. i was going nuts.
the other half will see the positive changes and at first be mad, then jealous, then all other kinds of crazy but she will never change until SHE wants to and has the drive to do it. eventually she realized she wanted to be in a relationship again and made major changes. things are pretty much ok now, but not because i did anything to change her. she did it all herself while i was detached and mildly supportive.
bottom line: OP take care of yourself and let your wife live in peace or die in peace. forcing a change isn't going to work. she'll change when she hits bottom as she defines it, not as you define it.
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Once I detach from someone I no longer love them so couldn’t remain in a marriage forever. I did until my youngest was 18. I tried to get the loving feelings back but gone was gone.
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This makes me think of Rich Roll and his wife, Julie Piatt. He's a chubby-lawyer-turned-ultrarunner with an excellent podcast on which she is occasionally a guest. Years ago, he ate mostly fast food and other processed foods, and she was vegetarian. She tried and tried to get him to eat better and exercise, and she finally just stopped. She told him that she loved him and that she was letting it go so that he could do what he felt was best for himself. He says he was skeptical at first, but when she really didn't bring it up again, he realized he was on his own (in terms of lifestyle -- she was still very much involved in his life as his wife), and he was suddenly motivated to get healthy. Sometimes backing off is the best plan.
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I think to establish credentials here we may need everyone to post a recent photo (maybe holding a New York Times to establish date) of themselves. Full body. No baggy clothes, either.
Hey, don't look at me, this was my response (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/dealing-with-a-spouse-who-is-literally-killing-self-with-unhealthy-lifestyle/msg1967881/#msg1967881).
Frankly, your wife sounds awful, but fairly typical for a modern Western person. Someone has to keep all those doctors employed. But you sound awful, too. A man shouldn't badmouth his wife to others, even strangers. Disloyalty isn't attractive. Has there ever been an instance in which someone whined, complained and berated their spouse on a regular basis, and the result was positive lifestyle change and hot sex?