Dave Ramsey suggests an 8% withdrawal rate to never run out of money

[clarkfan1979]

Overall, I think Dave Ramsey does good work with helping people reduce their debt. However, when it comes to investing and withdraw rates, I think his advice is harmful. In the video he claims that the S & P 500 market average is 11.8%, so you can use 11% to be conservative. You then withdraw only 8% to account for 3% inflation. According to Dave, you never touch the principle and you also keep up with inflation because it will grow 3% extra every year, after your 8% withdrawal. He also says that his portfolio in aggressive growth stock mutual funds averages 13% and it's easy to beat the S & P 500 by 1% or 2%.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPQu72-su4w

[roomtempmayo]

His good advice can be summarized as, "get out of consumer debt as fast as possible."  He's figured out how to make a killing with his one piece of good advice by using it as the basis of a financial Jerry Springer show.

The rest of his advice tends to be bad.

[RWD]

He has a financial incentive to sell mutual funds, not surprising at all that he would deliberately give bad advice.

[curious_george]

Dave Ramsey. Ugghhhh...

[TimCFJ40]

If you followed his plan exactly, started reasonably early, and didn't retire before social security, 8% might be a reasonable number for a comfortable retirement for the average 2 decade retirement.  Having no debt and waiting until Social Security and Medicare are available to retire makes the withdrawal rate of 8% much more survivable.

For anyone planning early retirement in their 30s or 40s, playing fast and loose with an 8% withdrawal rate is certainly a large gamble. 

Dave Ramsey has taken notable exception to the idea of FIRE before, so I think of his advice as more centered on normal people expecting to save 15% of their income and retire when they are eligible for Social Security and Medicare, than for 70% savings rate early retirees. 

[ysette9]

We don’t need to rehash this guy again. Just do some searches on this website or on another reputable financial forum.

In short, he is good for motivating people in bad situations get out of debt. Beyond that, most of what comes out of his mouth is garbage.

Many years ago I had a craving for more personal financial advice. I spent time going through the usual suspects of investment and budgeting advice. I was already doing all of the usual stuff like saving for retirement and an emergency fund.  stumbled on DR’s website as part of that period of online wandering and read w few articles. Nothing struck me as particularly interesting until the one that tried to argue that a woman’s place is at home.

Fuck that noise.

[EvenSteven]

We don’t need to rehash this guy again. Just do some searches on this website or on another reputable financial forum.

In short, he is good for motivating people in bad situations get out of debt. Beyond that, most of what comes out of his mouth is garbage.

Many years ago I had a craving for more personal financial advice. I spent time going through the usual suspects of investment and budgeting advice. I was already doing all of the usual stuff like saving for retirement and an emergency fund.  stumbled on DR’s website as part of that period of online wandering and read w few articles. Nothing struck me as particularly interesting until the one that tried to argue that a woman’s place is at home.

Fuck that noise.

And now there is Caleb Hammer on youtube that does a better job of the part Dave is good at (motivating people in bad situations get out of debt)

[Telecaster]

If you followed his plan exactly, started reasonably early, and didn't retire before social security, 8% might be a reasonable number for a comfortable retirement for the average 2 decade retirement.  Having no debt and waiting until Social Security and Medicare are available to retire makes the withdrawal rate of 8% much more survivable.

It is still shitty advice.   The withdrawal rate doesn't know or care about debt, Social Security, or Medicare.   Those things lower the amount of money you need, but they don't improve your withdrawal rate success (unless you lower your WR to the amount you need, of course).   

At 8% WR after 20 years would have failed 50% of the time in the past, and in some cases in as few as 8.5 years.  Follow Ramsey's advice and you could be eating Alpo for most of your retirement years.  And what if you get unlucky and live 30 years?      This is not a reasonable or prudent strategy.   

[ChpBstrd]

Sounds like something which works if Ramsey's tech stocks continue to perform like they've done over the past 2-3 years.

But good luck when the line quits going up.

[Ron Scott]

Have heard him on the radio. Got the jist after 5-10 minutes. How he’s managed to turn his one trick into a living is some strange shit.

[Morning Glory]

His high-school textbook is now approved curriculum in <guess which state?>

https://www.npr.org/2023/09/28/1202264881/why-was-dave-ramsey-s-financial-literacy-textbook-approved-in-florida

[Phenix]

Have heard him on the radio. Got the jist after 5-10 minutes. How he’s managed to turn his one trick into a living is some strange shit.

I don't keep up with the latest statistics, but I think some 9 out of 10 American households carry some form of debt. Not really hard to see why his one trick has brought him such a fortune.

The Total Money Makeover was the first personal finance book I ever read (wedding gift), and it got me interested in learning more which is how I found MMM.
Had I not read his book, I probably wouldn't even be close to where I am currently. Not because of his advice, but because his book made me want to learn more.
I'm sure there are others who are in similar shoes as me and that's why I can't be mad at Dave Ramsey. His show is purely entertainment, but it might get someone to take a peak at Personal Finance books at the library or book store.

[Just Joe]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/16/economy/us-household-debt-fourth-quarter/index.html

I guess here we go again on the debt re-cycle... Ramsey will stay busy.

[jinga nation]

He has a financial incentive to sell mutual funds, not surprising at all that he would deliberately give bad advice.

Unfortunately for his followers, and fortunately for him, those mutual funds are quite crap.

[Louise]

Yeah, I remember hearing that listening to his show. It's pretty simplistic and implies markets never go down. My retirement spreadsheet with a steady return looks awesome, but my other spreadsheet with varying returns looks less awesome (sorry heirs!).

[jc77]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/16/economy/us-household-debt-fourth-quarter/index.html

I guess here we go again on the debt re-cycle... Ramsey will stay busy.

I see him as a first step towards the rabbit hole of gaining basic financial  literacy.  There is such thing as smart debt.  Like a 3% 30 yr fixed rate mortgage on an appreciating asset in a high inflation environment.

Alas, a global debt bubble may be upon us with sovereigns being the main offenders.  Imagine having to pay almost $1,000,000,000,000 per year on interest alone…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Nightwatchman9270]

Most of you hate Dave Ramsey because he loves Jesus and you don't.  He will go to heaven debt free. Most of you will ultimately FIRE in the eternal fire.

John 14:6 Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”


[MOD NOTE: What the H-E-double hockey sticks is going on here? Banned]

[pdxvandal]

Most of you hate Dave Ramsey because he loves Jesus and you don't.  He will go to heaven debt free. Most of you will ultimately FIRE in the eternal fire.

John 14:6 Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Troll much? This is about financial education and literacy, not guilt-shaming people about religion.

[RWD]

[...] because he loves Jesus and you don't.

[citation needed]

Dave Ramsey is a terrible role model of a Christian. I guess I should start conning people into bad investments so I can ensure I go to heaven.

[Nightwatchman9270]

You two should both examine your souls.


[MOD NOTE: banned]

[Nightwatchman9270]

 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’

20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”
[MOD NOTE: banned]

[sonofsven]

Since Jesus was a carpenter, like me, I have a special insight into his works.
We both think you're full of it.

[FrugalToque]

Yeah, I don't know what that was about, but we don't need religious trolling in this forum.

[Morning Glory]

Thanks Toque!

[ChpBstrd]

Trolling or sarcasm? I thought sarcasm but that last one left me wondering. If people can't tell the difference, you might have lost touch with reality. Or maybe just bad at sarcasm? No way to tell.

[Sandi_k]

Yeah, I don't know what that was about, but we don't need religious trolling in this forum.

Thanks for being so quick to act on this one.

[RWD]

Yeah, I don't know what that was about, but we don't need religious trolling in this forum.

Thanks for being so quick to act on this one.

+1

[OurTown]

That was awesome.

[Chris Pascale]

Dang, I missed the guy telling us to get right with Jesus. And now he can take his ban as persecution.

He took the slings and arrows......in his mind.

[Chris Pascale]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

About 10 years ago, I remember Ramsey was going through a series of confrontations with people who disagreed with him online. He'd always lead with "what are you studying in school?" and "have you ever worked in business?", and maybe "do you own your own home?"

It was almost always a 20-yo liberal arts major living at home, and Ramsey would "win" the argument. Except one time a kid got Ramsey to admit something about the market ROR, but explained it in some weird way. The kid said, "so why don't you just say that it's [whatever percent]?" and Ramsey flipped his lid with because it's called the Dave Ramsey show, and I'll say what I want.

Following that, Ramsey said the one the kid said.

I was following those closely because I was a Feature Writer and Section Editor for a couple websites, and one of them had my bio as being that I was a "consumer advocate." Ramsey said multiple times on the radio - never naming me, so maybe not referring to me - about how there are some people online calling themselves consumer advocates, but they haven't been helping people for 30 years.

[ysette9]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

About 10 years ago, I remember Ramsey was going through a series of confrontations with people who disagreed with him online. He'd always lead with "what are you studying in school?" and "have you ever worked in business?", and maybe "do you own your own home?"

It was almost always a 20-yo liberal arts major living at home, and Ramsey would "win" the argument. Except one time a kid got Ramsey to admit something about the market ROR, but explained it in some weird way. The kid said, "so why don't you just say that it's [whatever percent]?" and Ramsey flipped his lid with because it's called the Dave Ramsey show, and I'll say what I want.

Following that, Ramsey said the one the kid said.

I was following those closely because I was a Feature Writer and Section Editor for a couple websites, and one of them had my bio as being that I was a "consumer advocate." Ramsey said multiple times on the radio - never naming me, so maybe not referring to me - about how there are some people online calling themselves consumer advocates, but they haven't been helping people for 30 years.

Called out specifically by DR for hate! Congrats, nice work.

[Telecaster]

It's funny to me how Dave makes everyone here look like homeless beggars when you compare his wealth to yours.  I'll follow the guy with the money advice over some peasant.

I bet you are a delight at parties. 

[mizzourah2006]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

He expects every person to work until ~67.5 and he doesn't understand or at least acknowledge sequence of returns risk. But even if he ignores that and he expects you to work until retirement age actuarial tables suggest a 66 year old male will live to be about 82 and a 66  year old female will live to be about 85. So that only requires ~15 years of withdrawals for the male and ~19 years of withdrawals for the female. 8% really isn't all that crazy if you only need 15 years of withdrawals.

[Chris Pascale]

It's funny to me how Dave makes everyone here look like homeless beggars when you compare his wealth to yours.  I'll follow the guy with the money advice over some peasant.

I bet you are a delight at parties.

To paraphrase a line from Jack Bogle: I may not have as much money as him, but I have something he never will - enough.

Dave is just flat-out wrong. He'll go on the air (if he hasn't already) to condescend that "if I'm half-wrong [yada yada yada]", so that he can take credit for it.

Some people say things like "I've made mistakes and corrected them," He takes credit every time, never claiming he was wrong......save for his origin story.

[Chris Pascale]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

He expects every person to work until ~67.5 and he doesn't understand or at least acknowledge sequence of returns risk. But even if he ignores that and he expects you to work until retirement age actuarial tables suggest a 66 year old male will live to be about 82 and a 66  year old female will live to be about 85. So that only requires ~15 years of withdrawals for the male and ~19 years of withdrawals for the female. 8% really isn't all that crazy if you only need 15 years of withdrawals.

A good breakdown. Thanks.

[OurTown]

He said somewhere his 8% SWR is based on:

The stock market returns an average of 12% (!)

Inflation rate averages 4%

Therefore 12-4 = 8% SWR.

Perhaps the warning "YMMV" would be appropriate here.

[clarkfan1979]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

About 10 years ago, I remember Ramsey was going through a series of confrontations with people who disagreed with him online. He'd always lead with "what are you studying in school?" and "have you ever worked in business?", and maybe "do you own your own home?"

It was almost always a 20-yo liberal arts major living at home, and Ramsey would "win" the argument. Except one time a kid got Ramsey to admit something about the market ROR, but explained it in some weird way. The kid said, "so why don't you just say that it's [whatever percent]?" and Ramsey flipped his lid with because it's called the Dave Ramsey show, and I'll say what I want.

Following that, Ramsey said the one the kid said.

I was following those closely because I was a Feature Writer and Section Editor for a couple websites, and one of them had my bio as being that I was a "consumer advocate." Ramsey said multiple times on the radio - never naming me, so maybe not referring to me - about how there are some people online calling themselves consumer advocates, but they haven't been helping people for 30 years.

One of my college buddies has a successful life insurance business with employees and a website. He criticized Dave Ramsey on his website for his strategy/recommendations for life insurance. The Dave Ramsey company contacted him and asked him to take down the critical information of Dave. My buddy thought the information was accurate so he refused. The Dave Ramsey group then threatened to sue. My buddy hired a lawyer and defended himself. He eventually won and didn't have to take down the critical information because it was factually correct.

[simonsez]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

About 10 years ago, I remember Ramsey was going through a series of confrontations with people who disagreed with him online. He'd always lead with "what are you studying in school?" and "have you ever worked in business?", and maybe "do you own your own home?"

It was almost always a 20-yo liberal arts major living at home, and Ramsey would "win" the argument. Except one time a kid got Ramsey to admit something about the market ROR, but explained it in some weird way. The kid said, "so why don't you just say that it's [whatever percent]?" and Ramsey flipped his lid with because it's called the Dave Ramsey show, and I'll say what I want.

Following that, Ramsey said the one the kid said.

I was following those closely because I was a Feature Writer and Section Editor for a couple websites, and one of them had my bio as being that I was a "consumer advocate." Ramsey said multiple times on the radio - never naming me, so maybe not referring to me - about how there are some people online calling themselves consumer advocates, but they haven't been helping people for 30 years.

One of my college buddies has a successful life insurance business with employees and a website. He criticized Dave Ramsey on his website for his strategy/recommendations for life insurance. The Dave Ramsey company contacted him and asked him to take down the critical information of Dave. My buddy thought the information was accurate so he refused. The Dave Ramsey group then threatened to sue. My buddy hired a lawyer and defended himself. He eventually won and didn't have to take down the critical information because it was factually correct.

Those good old Christian values just beaming through everything Ramsey touches.

[ChpBstrd]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

About 10 years ago, I remember Ramsey was going through a series of confrontations with people who disagreed with him online. He'd always lead with "what are you studying in school?" and "have you ever worked in business?", and maybe "do you own your own home?"

It was almost always a 20-yo liberal arts major living at home, and Ramsey would "win" the argument. Except one time a kid got Ramsey to admit something about the market ROR, but explained it in some weird way. The kid said, "so why don't you just say that it's [whatever percent]?" and Ramsey flipped his lid with because it's called the Dave Ramsey show, and I'll say what I want.

Following that, Ramsey said the one the kid said.

I was following those closely because I was a Feature Writer and Section Editor for a couple websites, and one of them had my bio as being that I was a "consumer advocate." Ramsey said multiple times on the radio - never naming me, so maybe not referring to me - about how there are some people online calling themselves consumer advocates, but they haven't been helping people for 30 years.

One of my college buddies has a successful life insurance business with employees and a website. He criticized Dave Ramsey on his website for his strategy/recommendations for life insurance. The Dave Ramsey company contacted him and asked him to take down the critical information of Dave. My buddy thought the information was accurate so he refused. The Dave Ramsey group then threatened to sue. My buddy hired a lawyer and defended himself. He eventually won and didn't have to take down the critical information because it was factually correct.

That's kinda scary. Rich people can just threaten to sue and because they have deeper pockets, they are more likely to win and bankrupt the small guy. At a minimum they can disrupt the small guy, whereas the small guy does not have a similar advantage. Thus the structure of our legal system imperils free speech more than government oppression.

[Catbert]

Anyone else remember MMM and KISS trust?  For a long time (no longer) if you googled KISS trust his blog post showed up on the first page.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/kiss-trust-has-sent-a-legal-threat-to-this-blog/100/

This might be a better synopsis:
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/03/11/mmm-receives-legal-threats-great-lawyer-wanted/

[Chris Pascale]

Anyone else remember MMM and KISS trust?  For a long time (no longer) if you googled KISS trust his blog post showed up on the first page.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/kiss-trust-has-sent-a-legal-threat-to-this-blog/100/

This might be a better synopsis:
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/03/11/mmm-receives-legal-threats-great-lawyer-wanted/

Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed it.

[Chris Pascale]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

About 10 years ago, I remember Ramsey was going through a series of confrontations with people who disagreed with him online. He'd always lead with "what are you studying in school?" and "have you ever worked in business?", and maybe "do you own your own home?"

It was almost always a 20-yo liberal arts major living at home, and Ramsey would "win" the argument. Except one time a kid got Ramsey to admit something about the market ROR, but explained it in some weird way. The kid said, "so why don't you just say that it's [whatever percent]?" and Ramsey flipped his lid with because it's called the Dave Ramsey show, and I'll say what I want.

Following that, Ramsey said the one the kid said.

I was following those closely because I was a Feature Writer and Section Editor for a couple websites, and one of them had my bio as being that I was a "consumer advocate." Ramsey said multiple times on the radio - never naming me, so maybe not referring to me - about how there are some people online calling themselves consumer advocates, but they haven't been helping people for 30 years.

One of my college buddies has a successful life insurance business with employees and a website. He criticized Dave Ramsey on his website for his strategy/recommendations for life insurance. The Dave Ramsey company contacted him and asked him to take down the critical information of Dave. My buddy thought the information was accurate so he refused. The Dave Ramsey group then threatened to sue. My buddy hired a lawyer and defended himself. He eventually won and didn't have to take down the critical information because it was factually correct.

That's kinda scary. Rich people can just threaten to sue and because they have deeper pockets, they are more likely to win and bankrupt the small guy. At a minimum they can disrupt the small guy, whereas the small guy does not have a similar advantage. Thus the structure of our legal system imperils free speech more than government oppression.

This is what happens when you operate with a pre-Info-Age mentality; you think people don't know any better and will get scared.

[vand]

Love Dave. Go big or go home.

[ixtap]

It's funny to me how Dave makes everyone here look like homeless beggars when you compare his wealth to yours.  I'll follow the guy with the money advice over some peasant.

I bet you are a delight at parties.

Funny how his advice is not to invent some kind of schtick that the majority of Americans need, put a religious wrapper on it and launch an empire.

[mastrr]

It's funny to me how Dave makes everyone here look like homeless beggars when you compare his wealth to yours.  I'll follow the guy with the money advice over some peasant.

I bet you are a delight at parties.

Funny how his advice is not to invent some kind of schtick that the majority of Americans need, put a religious wrapper on it and launch an empire.

He does promote entrepreneurship as a means for people to get themselves out of debt.  Dave wants people to have as big of an income as possible.  He's also a fan of small business / private companies who can have their own set of values.

[nereo]

It's funny to me how Dave makes everyone here look like homeless beggars when you compare his wealth to yours.  I'll follow the guy with the money advice over some peasant.

I bet you are a delight at parties.

Funny how his advice is not to invent some kind of schtick that the majority of Americans need, put a religious wrapper on it and launch an empire.

He does promote entrepreneurship as a means for people to get themselves out of debt.  Dave wants people to have as big of an income as possible.  He's also a fan of small business / private companies who can have their own set of values.

I find the values set forth by his company, Ramsey Solutions, to be deeply troubling.

[mastrr]

Ramsey is saying 8% for 1 of 2 reasons.

   1. He either wants to distinguish himself from the 4% Rule (hopefully based on some kind of info)
   2. It's a play on his "stock market goes up 10%+ a year" guidance

About 10 years ago, I remember Ramsey was going through a series of confrontations with people who disagreed with him online. He'd always lead with "what are you studying in school?" and "have you ever worked in business?", and maybe "do you own your own home?"

It was almost always a 20-yo liberal arts major living at home, and Ramsey would "win" the argument. Except one time a kid got Ramsey to admit something about the market ROR, but explained it in some weird way. The kid said, "so why don't you just say that it's [whatever percent]?" and Ramsey flipped his lid with because it's called the Dave Ramsey show, and I'll say what I want.

Following that, Ramsey said the one the kid said.

I was following those closely because I was a Feature Writer and Section Editor for a couple websites, and one of them had my bio as being that I was a "consumer advocate." Ramsey said multiple times on the radio - never naming me, so maybe not referring to me - about how there are some people online calling themselves consumer advocates, but they haven't been helping people for 30 years.

One of my college buddies has a successful life insurance business with employees and a website. He criticized Dave Ramsey on his website for his strategy/recommendations for life insurance. The Dave Ramsey company contacted him and asked him to take down the critical information of Dave. My buddy thought the information was accurate so he refused. The Dave Ramsey group then threatened to sue. My buddy hired a lawyer and defended himself. He eventually won and didn't have to take down the critical information because it was factually correct.

Those good old Christian values just beaming through everything Ramsey touches.

one company suing another has nothing to do with Christianity.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

I just had a conversation with a conservative Christian and a mildly conservative Christian. Both wholeheartedly agreed, his advice on debt is helpful to many people. His advice on investing is garbage. The first is a competent financial planner. If I showed him this video, I'm pretty sure he'd be blown away.

I do hate it for people that eat it all up hook, line,  and sinker. It's really dangerous advice for investing.

[ender]

I love listening to the show for entertainment reasons. While he's factually wrong on this, a massive percentage of the time he's telling this to people in their 50s/60s or older who have nothing saved and need hope that what they can save is meaningful.

If you tell someone in their mid-50s who just got out of debt after living their whole life in a screwed up financial state they need to accumulate 25x their annual spending in a decade? That's going to put them in a hopeless situation.

One thing I'd really be curious to know is if Dave actually believes in the 8% approach himself. Or would say it's mostly a behavioral thing. I suspect his team is dogmatic about it because Dave is, honestly. I rarely have gotten any semblance of deep financial understanding from most of the Dave Ramsey Show non-Dave folks.

[nereo]

I love listening to the show for entertainment reasons. While he's factually wrong on this, a massive percentage of the time he's telling this to people in their 50s/60s or older who have nothing saved and need hope that what they can save is meaningful.

If you tell someone in their mid-50s who just got out of debt after living their whole life in a screwed up financial state they need to accumulate 25x their annual spending in a decade? That's going to put them in a hopeless situation.

The issue I have with this argument is he isn’t just telling these 50/60 year olds this advice.  He’s broadcasting it out on his show and marketing the hell out of it. Critically, his message doesn’t change then the next caller is a couple in their late 20s who are aggressively paying down their mortgage.  And he does this while being an absolute bully towards anyone who dares to have a different opinion. Two of his most used words are “idiot” and “moron”. 

One thing I'd really be curious to know is if Dave actually believes in the 8% approach himself. Or would say it's mostly a behavioral thing. I suspect his team is dogmatic about it because Dave is, honestly. I rarely have gotten any semblance of deep financial understanding from most of the Dave Ramsey Show non-Dave folks.

That’s always the question - does the demagogue believe in his own rhetoric. I suspect Dave really doesn’t get the financial side at all, and reacts to it the way that many do for any subject that the have poor aptitude for - by steering away from it and shutting it off whenever it comes up (which is basically what happens each and every time it comes up on his show).  He’s also a proponent of the prosperity gospel, and believes his financial success is a reward from God for doing good. This belief reaffirms that his teachings must please God, and therefore be correct.