Dangerous: my FU mindset without the FU money

[MrThatsDifferent]

Oh, I might have gotten myself into a pickle. I have a great job but the management is awful and I’m woefully under appreciated. Since I discovered MMM last year I convinced myself that it was ok and I should let my ego go and just ride the high-paying job for 5 years and then FIRE. Don’t rock the boat! But I’ve just witnessed someone who doesn’t bring in revenue like I do get a fancy promotion with other perks. I’m pissed and now I’m letting them know I’m going to look for another role if my soon to be renegotiated contract doesn’t properly recognize my achievements. I’m playing this like I have FU money when I don’t. I’m at least 2 years away from that but this is my one and only chance for this new contract and then I’m locked in. I’m not bluffing though, I’m applying to other jobs. I’m a bit upset at myself for not controlling my ego, but what’s happening is unfair and I don’t seem to be letting it go. If it goes pear-shaped and I don’t find another job or they fight me on the contract and think I’m a pain I could be screwed. But, I have saved enough to weather a storm for at least a year and I’m ridiculously qualified and skilled, but still scary territory when I thought I was just going to coast. Has mustachianism made me arrogant or brave?

[ducky19]

Confident, if MMM is to be believed! You were not wrong in recognizing you were underpaid in relation to your contributions - I have read multiple instances on here where people walked when in this situation. It may have taken them a couple of months to find another position, but each of them are in a much better place than they were previously. Stay the course and keep us updated!

[Sibley]

You've got enough money to be ok for a year? That's called FU money.

That said, get your ego under control and use your brain. You should be upset with yourself - you messed up not using your brain. Don't do it again.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Confident, if MMM is to be believed! You were not wrong in recognizing you were underpaid in relation to your contributions - I have read multiple instances on here where people walked when in this situation. It may have taken them a couple of months to find another position, but each of them are in a much better place than they were previously. Stay the course and keep us updated!

Thanks for that, means a lot!

[MrThatsDifferent]

You've got enough money to be ok for a year? That's called FU money.

That said, get your ego under control and use your brain. You should be upset with yourself - you messed up not using your brain. Don't do it again.

I want to argue with you but the truth is, it is all about my ego. I shouldn’t care that they don’t appreciate me, there are other parts that balance that out. I shouldn’t care that my colleague is getting promoted and just focus on my own backyard. I know this. The inequality eats at me though and there are so many reminders at work that it gets rubbed in my face. At this point, I just need to bust my ass and find a better job or back up my position and hope they come to the table. So far, they seem to understand but not sure how willing they are to meet what I think I’m deserved.

[former player]

I agree that a year's worth of expenses saved counts as FU money.

Try to keep your emotions under check when you are negotiating.  Which is not to say to ignore them: you need to understand what you are feeling and what options you have that you can negotiate that would satisfy them.  But having worked out what your objectives are you then need to be stone cold objective in going after those objectives.  Any intrusion of emotions into the negotiating process will interfere with your negotiating methods and will be taken advantage of by your employers.

Marshall your facts before you go into the negotiation: how much revenue you bring in sounds as though it will be key.  Would any of that revenue move with you if you went to another job or became a consultant to your current firm?  Becoming a consultant for the same firm might be a way of keeping the benefits of the job while getting out from under the awful management.

[Freedom2016]

As a negotiation consultant, I recommend that you quietly do that job search, and wait to engage your current employer until you have an outside offer in hand. Your negotiation hand will be much stronger than if you have that conversation now and make what could be perceived as an empty threat to leave.

Also, be careful about making too many assumptions about why your peer got the promotion and you didn't. You may have better hard skills than s/he does (i.e. you 'produce' more) but maybe s/he has soft skills that you don't, and the role s/he was promoted into heavily depends on that soft skill set.

In other words, don't 'confront' management unless you are certain you have all relevant information.

[MrThatsDifferent]

I agree that a year's worth of expenses saved counts as FU money.

Try to keep your emotions under check when you are negotiating.  Which is not to say to ignore them: you need to understand what you are feeling and what options you have that you can negotiate that would satisfy them.  But having worked out what your objectives are you then need to be stone cold objective in going after those objectives.  Any intrusion of emotions into the negotiating process will interfere with your negotiating methods and will be taken advantage of by your employers.

Marshall your facts before you go into the negotiation: how much revenue you bring in sounds as though it will be key.  Would any of that revenue move with you if you went to another job or became a consultant to your current firm?  Becoming a consultant for the same firm might be a way of keeping the benefits of the job while getting out from under the awful management.

I thought FU money was th bare minimum to FIRE? If it’s what your suggesting than yes, I guess I have at least a year of expenses covered, so that’s good but my FIRE plans would take a huge hit, not ideal.

Managing emotions is tough in this case. The executive management run things like they are being dads, they have the be mean, keep them keen attitude and think if they don’t praise you, you’ll work harder. I hate that management style and it’s having the opposite affect. I work too hard and have done too many good things to keep being treated like that. (Btw, my immediate boss agrees that this is the executive management style).  I can easily make the case for my achievements but I inherited a mess and have improved things but we’re still in the red as there’s a lot of work to do to right the ship. The execs never looked under the hood and didn’t realize things were so bad and I’ve been enacting change management, improving systems and finding new business to head us into the Black, which is on track in the next financial year. It’s been a major slog.

[Scortius]

I would add that it's always OK to have a frank discussion with management about your role and your compensation. Just make sure you do it without any anger or blustering. Be calm, state your points, and back them up with evidence. You don't have to threaten to quit, just point out that you feel under-appreciated and under-compensated for the value you bring to the company. Remember, it's all about the equation of 1) what is the full cost for them to keep you employed vs. 2) what is the full amount of revenue you provide to the company. Focus on establishing evidence of a high baseline for #2 to justify #1 and leave it at that.

[MrThatsDifferent]

As a negotiation consultant, I recommend that you quietly do that job search, and wait to engage your current employer until you have an outside offer in hand. Your negotiation hand will be much stronger than if you have that conversation now and make what could be perceived as an empty threat to leave.

Also, be careful about making too many assumptions about why your peer got the promotion and you didn't. You may have better hard skills than s/he does (i.e. you 'produce' more) but maybe s/he has soft skills that you don't, and the role s/he was promoted into heavily depends on that soft skill set.

In other words, don't 'confront' management unless you are certain you have all relevant information.

I agree with the first part except I tipped my hand because I applied for a high-level job and needed to give my boss as my referee so I had to ask him if that was ok. He said, sure. He actually gets it and they don’t have a problem with me looking around because they know my contract has to be renegotiated and they get that I need a plan B. The concern is whether they will offer what I’ll accept.

I definitely know everything I need to about my colleagues promotion. An exec has taken a liking and backed this person much to the shock and annoyance of virtually every other exec at my level and above. Happens that the exec who made the call has more pull than anyone else and thinks the light shines out this person’s ass, while everyone else thinks the emperor has no clothes.

[MrThatsDifferent]

I would add that it's always OK to have a frank discussion with management about your role and your compensation. Just make sure you do it without any anger or blustering. Be calm, state your points, and back them up with evidence. You don't have to threaten to quit, just point out that you feel under-appreciated and under-compensated for the value you bring to the company. Remember, it's all about the equation of 1) what is the full cost for them to keep you employed vs. 2) what is the full amount of revenue you provide to the company. Focus on establishing evidence of a high baseline for #2 to justify #1 and leave it at that.

Great points! Thanks!

[Freedom2016]

As a negotiation consultant, I recommend that you quietly do that job search, and wait to engage your current employer until you have an outside offer in hand. Your negotiation hand will be much stronger than if you have that conversation now and make what could be perceived as an empty threat to leave.

Also, be careful about making too many assumptions about why your peer got the promotion and you didn't. You may have better hard skills than s/he does (i.e. you 'produce' more) but maybe s/he has soft skills that you don't, and the role s/he was promoted into heavily depends on that soft skill set.

In other words, don't 'confront' management unless you are certain you have all relevant information.

I agree with the first part except I tipped my hand because I applied for a high-level job and needed to give my boss as my referee so I had to ask him if that was ok. He said, sure. He actually gets it and they don’t have a problem with me looking around because they know my contract has to be renegotiated and they get that I need a plan B. The concern is whether they will offer what I’ll accept.

I definitely know everything I need to about my colleagues promotion. An exec has taken a liking and backed this person much to the shock and annoyance of virtually every other exec at my level and above. Happens that the exec who made the call has more pull than anyone else and thinks the light shines out this person’s ass, while everyone else thinks the emperor has no clothes.

Got it. That sounds bad.

Now work as hard as you can to get a kickass offer somewhere else so you can leverage it here (or, heck, take the offer and get away from this dysfunctional outfit!).

[MrMoogle]

I agree that a year's worth of expenses saved counts as FU money.

I thought FU money was th bare minimum to FIRE? If it’s what your suggesting than yes, I guess I have at least a year of expenses covered, so that’s good but my FIRE plans would take a huge hit, not ideal.

FI = Financial Independence = bare minimum to FIRE = 25x expenses
FU = Enough money to no longer be afraid of losing your job = ~ 1 year of expenses (or however long to comfortably get a new job).

[ReadySetMillionaire]

FI = Financial Independence = bare minimum to FIRE = 25x expenses
FU = Enough money to no longer be afraid of losing your job = ~ 1 year of expenses (or however long to comfortably get a new job).

I totally agree with this.  I'm in a bit of a rough patch with my job, which I post about probably too much in another thread, but one thing that makes me sleep okay is knowing that we have enough saved up such that if I were to become unemployed (either by choice or not), I'd be just fine.

My wife makes enough income to cover all bills, which is a tremendous security blanket.  On top of that, we have about $20,000 in cash, another $12,000 in Roth contributions (which we could pull at any time without penalty), and then a bunch of money stocked away in retirement accounts.  Obviously we don't want to tap into those, but those are at least there.

Bottom line, I think FU money is being able to walk away from your job and have finances be pretty low on your list of concerns.  I would imagine that's where you're at if you're this close to FI.  If not, start saving some cash reserves.

[Sibley]

You've got enough money to be ok for a year? That's called FU money.

That said, get your ego under control and use your brain. You should be upset with yourself - you messed up not using your brain. Don't do it again.

I want to argue with you but the truth is, it is all about my ego. I shouldn’t care that they don’t appreciate me, there are other parts that balance that out. I shouldn’t care that my colleague is getting promoted and just focus on my own backyard. I know this. The inequality eats at me though and there are so many reminders at work that it gets rubbed in my face. At this point, I just need to bust my ass and find a better job or back up my position and hope they come to the table. So far, they seem to understand but not sure how willing they are to meet what I think I’m deserved.

I'm not saying you shouldn't want to be paid fairly. You absolutely should! I'm saying that you let your ego (ie, emotions) take control instead of your brain. It hasn't gone badly for you in this instance, but that may not always be the case. Emotions should inform and influence, but if that's the only component to a decision you're going to have a lot of problems.

Sorry - I'm in a slightly snippy mood today, and it comes across as very short and abrupt. You're not in my head, how would you know what I'm thinking? :)

[MrThatsDifferent]

FI = Financial Independence = bare minimum to FIRE = 25x expenses
FU = Enough money to no longer be afraid of losing your job = ~ 1 year of expenses (or however long to comfortably get a new job).

I totally agree with this.  I'm in a bit of a rough patch with my job, which I post about probably too much in another thread, but one thing that makes me sleep okay is knowing that we have enough saved up such that if I were to become unemployed (either by choice or not), I'd be just fine.

My wife makes enough income to cover all bills, which is a tremendous security blanket.  On top of that, we have about $20,000 in cash, another $12,000 in Roth contributions (which we could pull at any time without penalty), and then a bunch of money stocked away in retirement accounts.  Obviously we don't want to tap into those, but those are at least there.

Bottom line, I think FU money is being able to walk away from your job and have finances be pretty low on your list of concerns.  I would imagine that's where you're at if you're this close to FI.  If not, start saving some cash reserves.

Thanks. Yes, I’m preparing for all contingencies. If the worst happens: lose job and no new one to go to. I’ll be fine for a year at least. Like I said, it will just affect my true FIRE date.

[MrThatsDifferent]

You've got enough money to be ok for a year? That's called FU money.

That said, get your ego under control and use your brain. You should be upset with yourself - you messed up not using your brain. Don't do it again.

I want to argue with you but the truth is, it is all about my ego. I shouldn’t care that they don’t appreciate me, there are other parts that balance that out. I shouldn’t care that my colleague is getting promoted and just focus on my own backyard. I know this. The inequality eats at me though and there are so many reminders at work that it gets rubbed in my face. At this point, I just need to bust my ass and find a better job or back up my position and hope they come to the table. So far, they seem to understand but not sure how willing they are to meet what I think I’m deserved.

That’s ok. I’ve seen and delivered much harsher replies. ;-)

Having studied neuroscience, inequality triggers the emotional parts of your brain and the desire to fight is so strong. I am trying to keep a level head and sharing this with you all and getting your feedback is actually helping me process this without the emotion. So thanks, tough love is still love.

I'm not saying you shouldn't want to be paid fairly. You absolutely should! I'm saying that you let your ego (ie, emotions) take control instead of your brain. It hasn't gone badly for you in this instance, but that may not always be the case. Emotions should inform and influence, but if that's the only component to a decision you're going to have a lot of problems.

Sorry - I'm in a slightly snippy mood today, and it comes across as very short and abrupt. You're not in my head, how would you know what I'm thinking? :)

[Carless]

Ask A Manager has several good posts on how to ask for a raise and title bump.  May be helpful getting your ducks in a row with good arguments in your favour.

[KBecks]

I definitely know everything I need to about my colleagues promotion. An exec has taken a liking and backed this person much to the shock and annoyance of virtually every other exec at my level and above. Happens that the exec who made the call has more pull than anyone else and thinks the light shines out this person’s ass, while everyone else thinks the emperor has no clothes.

Life ain't fair and apparently you haven't sucked up enough to the right people.