Dad with two daughters, want to protect them

[BOP Mustache]

I’ve got two daughters aged 2 and 3 and a wife.

As a father I want to protect them and over the last few weeks have tried Brazilian jiu jitsu, Muay Thai and boxing but I hurt my neck badly in BJJ and just don’t really enjoy the other two enough to want to pursue it longer term.

I’ve been going to a 24 hour gym for the past year and have got stronger and put on muscle.

I feel like I should be able to protect myself and my family if the need arises so feel like a failure here, but then the other side of me thinks how likely is it that I’m going to get into some sort of physical fight in my life so why worry at all?

Any fathers in the same boat?

[Tasse]

I think it's great for you to pursue physical fitness, in whatever form you choose, for your own sake.

But you are highly unlikely ever to end up in a situation where martial arts skills will protect your loved ones. In fact, statistically, the most dangerous person to your wife and daughters is... you. I don't say that to accuse you of anything, just to try to jolt you into a different perspective. Women and girls are harmed most often by people they know: relatives, friends, boyfriends.

Because of this, the best thing you can do to protect your daughters is to invest in THEIR skills. Even as toddlers, start teaching them the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touch, and empower them to reject adults touching them - even for totally benign reasons - if they don't want to reciprocate. Raise them with relentless positive messages about their worth as individuals. Ensure they feel empowered to walk away from toxic relationships and to seek your support in difficult situations. If you're so inclined, sign them up for self-defense classes as teenagers. Perhaps have a talk with your wife about what would make her feel safer in the world, and what would have made her feel safe as a child.

If none of this is really appealing to you, then the question is: is your motivation actually about protecting the women in your life, or is it about building up your own sense of masculinity? There's nothing inherently wrong with the latter, but I think it's best to be honest about it.

[roomtempmayo]

I'd suggest rewatching the Swordsman Scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark.

https://youtu.be/7YyBtMxZgQs

[chemistk]

Father of 3 young boys (7,5,3) here - although I don't have daughters, I don't feel in the same boat. I'm not classically fit, but I don't have a dad-bod either. One day I'll get back to the gym.

I am 6', 210lbs. Not hulking, but certainly not small. If I find myself in a situation where I need to physically defend someone in my family, I'm not going to worry about how I look when I aim for the crotch, throat, or eyes. The number of times I anticipate being in those situations in my life is next to zero.

I'm more afraid of people who would attempt a premeditated attack/abduction. In those cases, I'm at a significant disadvantage even if I was skilled in a particular technique.

@Tass makes some excellent recommendations - give your daughters the gift of an awareness of how to protect themselves. Help them to understand how to identify a dangerous situation and how they themselves can escape from it. I'm doing some of the same with my boys, but with the added layer of not being the kind of man that women would be scared of.

I personally find the super-masculine daughter protecting dad trope to be tacky and a cultural artifact. You can be...you....and still do right by your family. No need to sit on the porch with a shotgun, or to have fantasies of thrashing every thug you see in the name of keeping the people in your life safe.

[GuitarStv]

Because of this, the best thing you can do to protect your daughters is to invest in THEIR skills. Even as toddlers, start teaching them the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touch, and empower them to reject adults touching them - even for totally benign reasons - if they don't want to reciprocate. Raise them with relentless positive messages about their worth as individuals. Ensure they feel empowered to walk away from toxic relationships and to seek your support in difficult situations. If you're so inclined, sign them up for self-defense classes as teenagers. Perhaps have a talk with your wife about what would make her feel safer in the world, and what would have made her feel safe as a child.

I've spent two and a half decades training in different martial arts (BJJ, boxing, wrestling, judo, Muay Thai) and 100% agree with the above.

Learning to fight in the gym has a lot of benefits - strength, endurance, confidence, overcoming challenges, developing discipline, facing/controlling fear, dealing with pain, etc.  These are all great things with plenty of knock on benefits to other areas of your life.  But your family shouldn't be depending on you for protection.  You won't always be present.  You won't always be strong.  Teach them to recognize dangerous scenarios and how to appropriately react in them.

[Must_ache]

I have never at any point in my life worried about protecting my kids.  IS your neighborhood unsafe? I suppose one option is owning a gun but I would never want to fire one - or moving somewhere where you don't have these worries.

[Dreamer40]

The odds of anyone trying to hurt your family in a physical way in your presence seems incredibly small. I’ve never known a single person who has ever been protected by someone who fought off an attacker. But I’ve known plenty of people who’ve been raped by people they thought they were safe with. Or been given drugs by “friends.” Teaching them life skills and maturity will go farther than building your own muscles. But being strong will help them in lots of other ways. Like when you help your daughters carry furniture into apartments and are less likely to incapacitate yourself (and potentially burden them) by falling in old age.

My husband did BJJ for a year but I encouraged him to find something else after he cracked some ribs.

[Villanelle]

I agree that a far more effective approach to protection is going to be empowering them and giving them a strong sense of agency of their bodies and their lives.  Secondary to that, support politicians and other leaders that will take women's rights seriously.  Most men, even those who are advocates, have no idea the day-to-day bullshit that comes with being a female human.  Consider reading "Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men" to get some perspective so you can better understand their lives and better advocate for leaders and changes that will improve medical care, education, finances, transportation, and many other areas. 

They are far more likely to receive and be damaged by sub-optimal medical care because studies focus on men and women's complaints are taken less seriously, than they are to be attacked by a strangers in a situation where your martial arts training will somehow save them. 

[GuitarStv]

My husband did BJJ for a year but I encouraged him to find something else after he cracked some ribs.

They grow back stronger!  :P

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

[LifeHappens]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

I took a self-defense class for women when I was in college. It was absolutely beneficial. Not because I ever had to physically defend myself, but because it gave me confidence and knowledge.

[GuitarStv]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

Yes.

But what's your goal?  Sometimes people have weird ideas about what martial arts is, so some folks who are initially drawn to them will quit very quickly.  Some folks who never really consider them end up lifelong devotees.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

Yes.

But what's your goal?  Sometimes people have weird ideas about what martial arts is, so some folks who are initially drawn to them will quit very quickly.  Some folks who never really consider them end up lifelong devotees.

I was mainly thinking about it from a self defense standpoint vs exercise.

[mspym]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

Yes. I did martial arts for 10 years and it was fantastic in terms of my personal and physical confidence. Have I ever used this in real life? not even once. I don't think any of the people I have trained with got into fights outside of sparring - because one of the key skills you learn is identifying problems and avoiding them before they happen. The other thing I noticed is training changes the way you carry yourself so you are less likely to be engaged - confident without being cocky, you don't look like an easy target or someone looking for a fight.

@BOP Mustache Another vote for talking to your wife about what would make her and your daughters feel safe. One of the things that is overlooked about Overprotective Dad Mode is that it encourages your daughters to hide problems from you because they don't want to be responsible for your reactions getting someone killed/sending you to prison.

[RetiredAt63]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

Yes.  I had read enough news stories (not click bait) about girls beaten by boyfriends when the bf was upset about something that DD took karate (she wanted to, she was not forced into it).  I basically figured that if a guy was the type to beat up a girlfriend, he would not want to go out with a girl who had a brown belt in karate.  It worked, I  guess, she was never physically abused by a boyfriend.  It also helped her develop strength and coordination.

What Tass and Villanelle said are what I would have said too.

Also, show her what a good relationship with a man is by having a good relationship with your wife.  And before she is old enough to date, discuss with her (casual conversations as they arise are best, no pressure) what makes a good boyfriend or a bad boyfriend.  Tell her the stories guys tell girls to make them give in to manipulation (for sex, for catering to his every whim, for being policed for behaviour), so she knows ahead of time the BS stories and she won't fall for them.

[St Elmo]

Late one night my wife turned to me in bed and said, "I think I heard a noise in our house. Can you go see if it's an intruder?" To which I responded, "if it's an intruder, there's nothing in my house worth meeting him for," so I stayed in bed. There wasn't anyone in our house, but I stand by my preference to avoid getting in a fight with someone.

Granted, my response would have been quite different if I thought someone in my family was in danger of physical harm, but I agree with others that the chances of a situation arising where deploying martial arts skills would be the best choice are very remote.

[GuitarStv]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

Yes.

But what's your goal?  Sometimes people have weird ideas about what martial arts is, so some folks who are initially drawn to them will quit very quickly.  Some folks who never really consider them end up lifelong devotees.

I was mainly thinking about it from a self defense standpoint vs exercise.

Martial arts vary wildly as far as how applicable they are to self defense.  Not just styles of martial art, but the way a teacher organizes the class and how the material is presented, how much material is presented, how much live sparring there is, etc.

To effectively defend yourself you need to know how to apply an effective technique for your situation under stress and against a resisting opponent.

In general I've always felt that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is one of the better martial arts for women.  It's uniquely anti-rape.  One of the core things you learn is how to defend yourself and escape from a (often bigger) person who is on top of you.  You regularly spar (roll) with people in your class giving full resistance.  There's no striking, so you don't get the same sort of stresses that boxing produces, but getting squished on the bottom does require someone to learn to keep your head and think under difficult/painful conditions.  Most importantly - the techniques work!  After a couple years I was comfortably controlling guys 80 lbs heavier than me who were fighting as hard as they could.

That said, many women don't like wrestling.  You're going to be in a class with sweaty, stinky, mostly guys.  Until they learn basic technique, women tend to be at a strength disadvantage.  This is actually good long term (tends to force better technique), but can be frustrating.  You also have to accept that you'll probably pick up the odd skin disease (ringworm, staph), will likely scrape your face/arms/hands, and you may pick up the occasional bruise/black eye.

[Kris]

I agree that a far more effective approach to protection is going to be empowering them and giving them a strong sense of agency of their bodies and their lives.  Secondary to that, support politicians and other leaders that will take women's rights seriously.  Most men, even those who are advocates, have no idea the day-to-day bullshit that comes with being a female human.  Consider reading "Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men" to get some perspective so you can better understand their lives and better advocate for leaders and changes that will improve medical care, education, finances, transportation, and many other areas. 

They are far more likely to receive and be damaged by sub-optimal medical care because studies focus on men and women's complaints are taken less seriously, than they are to be attacked by a strangers in a situation where your martial arts training will somehow save them.

This. You are much, much more likely to make a true, lasting difference in the quality and safety of their lives if you spend the time you would have spent on BJJ or an equivalent doing this stuff.

And, make it your goal to teach the men and boys around you and your daughters to not perpetuate sexism and toxic masculinity.

[GuitarStv]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self-defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

Sure. My daughter was part of a boxing club when she was a teenager and was encouraged to fight competitively at the provincial and national levels. Whole interesting discussion there around the risks of any contact sport and life cost of concussions ... I'm glad she never wanted to take it beyond fun. That was her sport, she loved it, gave her a bit of a "don't mess with me" swagger that she found helpful with the teenage bullies, and woe betide anyone who tries to accost her in a dark alley.

Boxing also teaches outstanding self defense.  Being hit in sparring and learning to defend and return fire is great and effective.  But I was hit a lot in the head while boxing, and am certain it didn't do me any good.  It wasn't uncommon to head home a little dizzy/nauseous after a hard sparring session.  The brain damage implications are a real concern long term.

[Kris]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

Yes. I did martial arts for 10 years and it was fantastic in terms of my personal and physical confidence. Have I ever used this in real life? not even once. I don't think any of the people I have trained with got into fights outside of sparring - because one of the key skills you learn is identifying problems and avoiding them before they happen. The other thing I noticed is training changes the way you carry yourself so you are less likely to be engaged - confident without being cocky, you don't look like an easy target or someone looking for a fight.

@BOP Mustache Another vote for talking to your wife about what would make her and your daughters feel safe. One of the things that is overlooked about Overprotective Dad Mode is that it encourages your daughters to hide problems from you because they don't want to be responsible for your reactions getting someone killed/sending you to prison.

Oh, lord, yes. OP, please take this comment seriously. I and many female friends have had frequent conversations where we have said this exact same thing. I have hidden problematic behaviors by men from my father and boyfriends my whole life, precisely out of fear of them going into Overprotective Rage Beast mode — which would mean that I had to: 1) manage my own fear provoked by their loud, aggressive anger that just re-amplified the fear that had been caused by the other dude’s bad behavior; 2) try to talk them down from their anger (which intentionally or not made the whole thing about them, rather than me and what had happened to me); 3) had to wonder/worry about whether they would do anything rash and end up in jail or worse from it; 4) had to deal with the aftermath of them going into Police Kris’s Future Safety mode, which often took the form of them basically telling me what/where I should/shouldn’t do/wear/go, and sometimes even what/where I should/shouldn’t have done/worn/gone.

Sorry for the rant. But as you can see, those kinds of male behaviors leave scars. It’s not good. I’m 55 and my BP still starts to spike when I talk about this stuff. Don’t do this to your daughters, or to your relationship with them.

[Metta]

This is an aside to the original topic, but it made me think of it. Does anyone feel martial arts/self defense classes for a daughter to be beneficial?

I took Aikido for about two years and it was absolutely beneficial, primarily because it taught me how to fall safely. That has saved me from so many injuries. I recently discovered that more than a decade after having spent week after week after week falling properly, that it is still ingrained in me.

Most things that happen to us are not the result of a homicidal maniac attacking us. But knowing how to fall and how to break holds helps with that as well.

[Freedomin5]

If you really want to protect your daughters, teach them to value themselves. Teach them to identify aggressive people, bullies, and inappropriate people, and then teach them to value themselves so much that they are disgusted by those types of people and stay away from them. Teach them to value and enjoy positive relationships and not be drawn to situations where they may be more exposed to dangerous situations. Teach them to be on alert when walking down streets, and to have a back up plan to avoid or extricate themselves from a situation. Prevention is much more useful than defense.

And then also have them take a self-defense class when older. I took one in middle school, but never had to use any of those skills because I could tell when a situation might be unsafe and knew what to do to not get myself in a situation where I might need to use those skills. Hopefully, I'll never have to use those skills.

[charis]

Also, on a different tangent, when I was a young girl/woman my dad was never around when I was in danger. As others have said, it was sexually aggressive boys, bullies, and inappropriate men. My dad could have whooped their asses, but he wasn't there. If you really want to keep your girls safe, call out and don't stand for sexist and misogynist behaviour.

This.  Girls and women are far more likely to be the victim of sexual harassment, sexual assault by an acquaintance or intimate partner, and domestic violence (verbal and/or physical) than will ever be in a situation where their father's self defense training will be relevant.  An absurd number of women are sexually abused/assaulted in college by someone they know, and their own self-defense training is unlikely to come into play until after the damage is done. Teach them that boundaries matter, among other important lessons.

[use2betrix]

My wife and I don’t live in fear but we make some conscious decisions to at least be aware.

My wife carries mace with her both when she’s on walks with the daughter and dog, running errands, etc. She’s very conscious about spatial awareness and just today she was mentioning her process for loading our 1 year old in the truck and unpacking groceries and how she’s conscious of where she parks, how she positions the cart, order which she unloads, etc.

We also have a 90 lb German shepherd than would crush most anyone that would ever try and assault her on a walk or in the house. If someone broke in the house, I’d probably feel bad for the person that broke in. We also have a security system and I have a few guns.

Lastly, I’m 34 and have maintained pretty peak athletic performance most my life. I also wrestled for about 10 years in a very elite wrestling state, and feel pretty confident if an altercation would ever get physical. In fact, between about 17-23 I had been in a few bar/party fights. The other person always threw the first punch and it always ended with me taking them to the ground. I did get jumped by a group of guys on two separate occasions. One of the times some bone broke around my eye and the other time I got sucker punched walking away and my nose ended up on my cheek lol. I’ve always wondered what would happen if I got in a fight and felt I needed to actually throw punches. I think those days are behind me and I doubt I’ll ever need to find out. I do have an uncle that’s probably been in 100+ fist fights. I rarely heard about them from him, but often from his friends. One time I was at a bar 5 hours from my home town and started some small talk with a guy in my bar. Turned out he went to school with my uncle. When I told him who my uncle was the guy got up and left without saying a word. He came back 20 minutes later and said he watched my uncle get jumped by 3 guys in a parking lot and he sent all 3 to the hospital in an ambulance.

[FIRE Artist]

Echoing all the above and will add the importance of raising your girls from the get go with the understanding and expectation that they will be financially independent adults - meaning they will study and acquire knowledge and/or skills to earn their own money. 

Financial dependence is the single largest contributor to and barrier from women getting themselves out of an abusive relationship.  I can still hear my mother’s voice telling me “you will make your own money” when I was a child, far too young even to understand what she truly meant.  University and career was never optional, it was always talked of as the natural progression of things, so it would have not occurred to me that it was optional just like high school wasn’t optional.  My silent generation parents understood the assignment with respect to raising their three gen X daughters to be independent.  My mom even counselled her daughters-in-law on the need for full transparency of household finances and the importance of keeping their own separate accounts, and telling them to call her if her sons ever gave them grief about it.

And it doesn’t matter if your wife is a stay at home mom and you are a great provider, and you never divorce, have health issues, or die young.  Consider it like you have won a lottery, don’t expect that your daughters will have that option. 

[Morning Glory]

What everyone else said, especially the overprotective male thing that Kris and mspym mentioned.  It's real.

If you think of safety more broadly, martial arts could help you to maintain the strength,  reflexes, and speed needed for a host of sketchy situations that don't involve actual fighting.  Grabbing a kid as they are trying to dart into traffic or get too close to the alligator pond comes to mind. Physical strength is good when dealing with meltdowns also.

the best thing i learned in middle-school taekwondo was how to "fall correctly " as in "practice rolling instead of trying to catch yourself so you don't get injured". Quite helpful if you slip on the ice, kid or no. Dog half my weight pulled me down a couple weeks ago and all I got was a scraped knee, but it reminds me I'd better get back to some strength training.

Swimming and first aid might also be helpful,  since you have young children.  Also minimize driving and make sure car seats are installed correctly.  Make sure they use sunscreen and don't eat too much processed meat,  etc

[Tasse]

Swimming lessons is a great point. Toddlers can learn enough to prevent drowning.

[mwulff]

I guess I'll just second what everyone else has been saying..

It is very unlikely that your daughters will come to any harm at all if you live in a western country, even one as dangerous as the US.

The greatest danger to them will come from someone they know.

I do however applaud you for going to the gym and getting fit (for which martial arts is awesome). There is no better dad than someone who is physically fit and can carry, throw and catch and keep up with the play. Over the next 10 years that fitness will pay off big time because of all the fun time gained.

Forget the whole macho "protect my family" thing. It's toxic and will negatively impact your daughters over their lifetime as they inevitably will seek out men with toxic masculinity because it makes them feel safe due to their upbringing.

Go, get fit, enjoy the playtime and raise strong independent girls...

And do keep up with the martial arts, just for a different reason.

[PurpleYogurt]

Get your daughters into taekwondo. My grown daughter is a 3rd dan blackbelt in kukkiwon TKD and could take someone down if needed. She got into it at age 9 and loved it. Took a long break but is now back training twice a week for her 4th dan. I'd want her nearby if something went wrong.

[Photograph 51]

One of the leading causes of death for children is car accidents.  Please make sure that your children have car seats that are up to current standards and that are installed correctly.  Buckle them in safely every time and use the car seats until the recommendations say you can stop.  Then, make sure they buckle their seat belts every time.  Drive safely, especially when they are in the car.  Be alert, sober, and not on your phone.  Don't speed.  Keeping your children when they are in a moving vehicle is one of the most important ways that you can protect them.

[Laura33]

Best thing you can do to protect your daughters is to treat them and their mother well.  Far and away the biggest danger to girls is the intimate partners they choose.  And guess what?  You are their first and most significant lesson.  Your daughters will learn how a man should treat a woman he loves by watching how you treat their mom.  And they will learn what kind of treatment they deserve from how you treat them. 

I encourage you to think of this logically.  Yes, there is absolutely a primal need to keep your children safe (I developed a major fear of walking down stairs as soon as I brought my daughter home!).  But the real risks are almost never the kinds of risks that physical strength can defeat.

- Many "bad man" risks are now online.
- Almost all of the other "bad man" risks will happen when you're not there -- because, duh, bad men want to get away with doing their bad things, and it's a hell of a lot easier to do that when other people aren't around. 
- If there is a "bad man" who attacks while you are around, I can almost guarantee that man will be armed -- because, duh, he wants to get away with doing his bad thing, and so if he's going to attack when people are around, he will take steps to ensure that they can't stop him.

But what you need to think logically about is this:  The vast majority of risks your daughters will face while living in your home are not "bad man" risks.  They are things like:

- Car accidents
- Drowning
- Accidental poisoning from products in the home
- Other accidents that fall in the category of "kid getting her hands on/doing something she shouldn't"

The problem is, of course, that all of these things are intangible.  So we have this driving need to protect our kids from danger, but "danger" is too amorphous, so we feel out of control and like we're not doing our jobs, and so psychologically we want to put a face on it.  Thus the "bad man" trope.  But that's a cop-out.  And worse, if you over-fixate on the bad man possibility, you divert attention from the things that in reality pose much, much higher risks to your daughters -- thus, ironically, making them less safe.  So don't give in to the temptation to check the box by doing XYZ.  Do some research into the actual dangers facing your kids, and then deploy your resources logically to defend against the most significant ones.  Just like you do with your money (since you're here, after all).

And by all means, get those girls some real self-defense classes when they're older.  Girls aren't taught to wrestle and hit, which puts them at a significant disadvantage if they do run into a bad man when you're not around.

[Sibley]

For some people, this "I have to protect my kids from theoretical risks which have little or nothing to do with the real risks" is an anxiety response. For some, its a self-image thing. For some, its keeping up with the Joneses. Etc, etc.

Where's this coming from OP? Be brutally honest with yourself. Address that reason.

Your daughters will not thank you for being over protective or immersed in toxic masculinity. Do not go that way.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

The need to protect your kids of any gender is an understandable response. I'll just echo Laura's response here. I'm parenting boys (now teens) & teaching them about online safety has been a huge part of the last few years. It's really important, particularly as technology is changing more quickly than you are able to reasonably patrol. You want them to be equipped with the understanding of how to make smart choices on their own.

[Metalcat]

The very, very best thing you can do to protect your daughters is to not indoctrinate them to feel like they can/should depend on the men around them that they trust to keep them physically safe.

The number one source of physical violence to women comes from men they trust to keep them safe.

I was assaulted by the very nice, well-raised young man who was my best friend in highschool whom my parents told me to always stay close to because he was big, trained expertly in martial arts, and would always keep me safe.

Yeah...no. Guess who ended up on the receiving end of his physical strength? Me

The more women believe that our safety is in the hands of the men around us, the more vulnerable we are to danger from the men around us whom we trust to keep us safe.

I feel safe with my husband not because he's strong and capable of downing a violent assailant, but because he's capable of being vulnerable, seeking therapy for his emotional issues, and expressing his anger openly in productive conflict.

If you want to keep your girls safe, model constructive conflict and normalize going to therapy for them and teach them to hold men to that standard.

The number one risk to your girls is men who get close to them who don't know how to express their difficult feelings in healthy ways.

[seemsright]

I have a Black Belt in Kenpo Karate. I am female.

Could I defend my family...Maybe Depends on the situation

I tried to get my DD to take Martial Arts. She hated it. I am requiring a self defense class in a couple of years. I will pay for her and her friends to take it. I am not teaching it.

The BJJ guys are crazy fun to spar, man their egos get bruised when I win. They are terrible on their feet.

The number one thing you learn in almost any Martial Art is how to NOT get into a fight.

You would be better to get a Generational Skipping Trust with a built in prenup to protect your DD's than thinking you getting Martial Arts training is going to protect them.

[lifeandlimb]

The other posters above make excellent points, which I think you know deep down to be accurate as well when you said:
"the other side of me thinks how likely is it that I’m going to get into some sort of physical fight in my life so why worry at all?"

Check out the website Love Is Respect as an educational resource, and share it with the people you love. The best thing you can do to protect your family is to teach them to recognize red flags, and how to set and enforce boundaries. In developed countries, danger to girls and women usually comes from someone they trust, when their parents aren't around. Raise strong, independent-minded women who know they are loved; I know this feels more amorphous and difficult, but I promise it will pay dividends.

For yourself, it can be an excellent idea to build fitness for a host of different reasons. Considering what you said, you could try:

• Weight lifting under the tutelage of a trainer, to build proper form and strength, which helps prevent future injury. It also builds mass (people are less likely to fuck with a bigger looking guy, which saves you the trouble of having to fight)
  
• Aikido if you're set on martial arts. It's less injury-prone because it's focused on push/pull, redirecting energy. Its meditative nature also helps nurture a stoic attitude and de-escalation skills.
  
• Krav Maga if you just want a quick hit on self-defense.
  

Honestly life is too short to pursue shit you're not into, so just keep exploring things until you land on something that feels awesome. Almost any physical activity is gonna be good for your health and confidence.

[RetiredAt63]

I fully understand your urge to protect your daughters, because when my daughter was born I realized that I would fight to my death to protect her.  We all know the deadliest mammals are mothers protecting their young.

However, as others have pointed out here, in our society the odds of a parent of either gender having to actually engage in physical combat to protect their children are pretty tiny.  I never had to, her father never had to.  We did have to protect her but in the ways that are relevant here.

Summarizing what has been posted

 - your daughters need to be able to set and enforce boundaries.  Boundaries are just suggestions if they are not enforced.  This starts early.

   - your daughters need to be able to financially support themselves and understand their finances.  Financial dependence keeps women in abusive jobs and abusive relationships.  If they get married they need to know the laws about their married finances - counting on the good will of a partner is not enough.  This is why I hate the situations where women stay home after the children, not only are they in a situation of financial dependency, they are not building work history or pensions.  This means you need to support their education and job training.  Are you setting aside savings for higher education?

- your daughters need to know their self-worth is not dependent on having a man or having children.  Too many girls/women get into bad relationships because all their friends are dating and they feel left out.  Or they desperately want a baby and are not being picky about the quality of the sperm donor they are linking their life with.

- they need to be able to defend themselves, and they need to be able to see trouble coming and get out.  If they are not athletic, they need even more to be able to get out of situations before they become physical, and take a self defense class because they will need it more.

- be an active father in their lives.  Don't assume that because they are girls that they will be mostly interacting with their mother.   You are their first and strongest example of what men are like, so you need to be present.  Plus if you/your wife teach them the skills that are not traditional for girls, they will be able to cope with flat tires and assembling furniture and barbecues and all the other things that they are perfectly capable of doing.

- The biggest thing is the relationship between you and your wife.  If you expect to have the final say at home, you are setting your daughters up to accept their boyfriends/husbands will also have the final say.  If you and your wife have very traditional gender roles that is what they will expect.  Traditional gender roles can work fine, but they are also really easy to abuse.  If you manage all the finances and your wife just goes along, then your daughters will not see themselves as being capable of managing their finances.  If you expect your wife to do things for you because she is your wife, but you don't reciprocate, that is what your daughters will expect in their relationships.  Google Matthew Fray.  If you expect your wife to do all the emotional and organizational work in your life, that is what your daughters will expect is normal. 

- the next biggest thing is the immediate environment - if all the other girls they know are being raised to be subservient and ignorant and pliable, your girls will most likely adopt those behaviours even if you are setting a better example.  Look at their schools, their friends, their after-school activities.  Similarly, if the boys are being raised as entitled misogynists, what are they learning about male behaviour and what they can expect from boyfriends/husbands?

Being a parent is challenging.  Good luck.

[GuitarStv]

Aikido if you're set on martial arts. It's less injury-prone because it's focused on push/pull, redirecting energy. Its meditative nature also helps nurture a stoic attitude and de-escalation skills.

I enjoyed my time learning aikido.  There are some cool philosophical underpinnings, that really appealed to me.  The break falling that was instructed is good.  It's also very, very, very Japanese if you're into that sort of thing.  Plenty of fun . . . and I agree that the mindset that is taught is very much focused on de-escalation.  If you're looking for a sort of Japanese tai-chi, this is great to take.

Injuries are rare because aikido is not performed with resistance (sometimes a little speed, but never real resistance).  And because aikido is not performed with resistance, you will not learn to execute techniques under stress against a resisting opponent.  The joint locks are effective and do work  . . .  but after several years of training I wasn't able to set any of them up against someone who wasn't letting me.  My instructors were certainly more skilled and capable than me, but also were usually unable to perform the techniques against someone resisting hard*.  Because of that I don't think it could really be relied upon for self defense - at least beyond the 'mindset' aspect.



* It's entirely possible that I just had terrible instructors, but experience with other practitioners of the art that I've run into since all seem to be very similar.

[jeninco]

Aikido if you're set on martial arts. It's less injury-prone because it's focused on push/pull, redirecting energy. Its meditative nature also helps nurture a stoic attitude and de-escalation skills.

I enjoyed my time learning aikido.  There are some cool philosophical underpinnings, that really appealed to me.  The break falling that was instructed is good.  It's also very, very, very Japanese if you're into that sort of thing.  Plenty of fun . . . and I agree that the mindset that is taught is very much focused on de-escalation.  If you're looking for a sort of Japanese tai-chi, this is great to take.

Injuries are rare because aikido is not performed with resistance (sometimes a little speed, but never real resistance).  And because aikido is not performed with resistance, you will not learn to execute techniques under stress against a resisting opponent.  The joint locks are effective and do work  . . .  but after several years of training I wasn't able to set any of them up against someone who wasn't letting me.  My instructors were certainly more skilled and capable than me, but also were usually unable to perform the techniques against someone resisting hard*.  Because of that I don't think it could really be relied upon for self defense - at least beyond the 'mindset' aspect.



* It's entirely possible that I just had terrible instructors, but experience with other practitioners of the art that I've run into since all seem to be very similar.

Both my kids took Aikido from a really, really good teacher. The studio had a sort of upstairs balcony so the parents had a place to be for the hour (hour and a half?) long class, (so we didn't have to drive off someplace else), and the balcony had a great view of the practice floor.

The teacher typically arranged to be someplace else for the 5-10 minutes before class so the teenaged-boys (and some girls) could horse around a bit with each other (safely and respectfully, and with consent) and the horsing-around generally consisted of "what happens if I don't cooperate while my friend tries this move?" Gotta say, it was really fun to watch!

[GuitarStv]

Aikido if you're set on martial arts. It's less injury-prone because it's focused on push/pull, redirecting energy. Its meditative nature also helps nurture a stoic attitude and de-escalation skills.

I enjoyed my time learning aikido.  There are some cool philosophical underpinnings, that really appealed to me.  The break falling that was instructed is good.  It's also very, very, very Japanese if you're into that sort of thing.  Plenty of fun . . . and I agree that the mindset that is taught is very much focused on de-escalation.  If you're looking for a sort of Japanese tai-chi, this is great to take.

Injuries are rare because aikido is not performed with resistance (sometimes a little speed, but never real resistance).  And because aikido is not performed with resistance, you will not learn to execute techniques under stress against a resisting opponent.  The joint locks are effective and do work  . . .  but after several years of training I wasn't able to set any of them up against someone who wasn't letting me.  My instructors were certainly more skilled and capable than me, but also were usually unable to perform the techniques against someone resisting hard*.  Because of that I don't think it could really be relied upon for self defense - at least beyond the 'mindset' aspect.



* It's entirely possible that I just had terrible instructors, but experience with other practitioners of the art that I've run into since all seem to be very similar.

Both my kids took Aikido from a really, really good teacher. The studio had a sort of upstairs balcony so the parents had a place to be for the hour (hour and a half?) long class, (so we didn't have to drive off someplace else), and the balcony had a great view of the practice floor.

The teacher typically arranged to be someplace else for the 5-10 minutes before class so the teenaged-boys (and some girls) could horse around a bit with each other (safely and respectfully, and with consent) and the horsing-around generally consisted of "what happens if I don't cooperate while my friend tries this move?" Gotta say, it was really fun to watch!

Yeah, not trying to pick on Aikido at all.  Like any martial art, it's use depends on what you want from it.  When I got my black belt in Taekwondo I really felt like I was awesome . . . and then I had a friend who was a serious boxer offer to spar with me.  It revealed many misconceptions that I had of the effectiveness of my chosen martial art for defense.  There are good things to take from any type of training, but there are also weaknesses - and those weaknesses can really bite you in the ass if you aren't aware of them.

[Metalcat]

I fully understand your urge to protect your daughters, because when my daughter was born I realized that I would fight to my death to protect her.  We all know the deadliest mammals are mothers protecting their young.

However, as others have pointed out here, in our society the odds of a parent of either gender having to actually engage in physical combat to protect their children are pretty tiny.  I never had to, her father never had to.  We did have to protect her but in the ways that are relevant here.

Summarizing what has been posted

 - your daughters need to be able to set and enforce boundaries.  Boundaries are just suggestions if they are not enforced.  This starts early.

   - your daughters need to be able to financially support themselves and understand their finances.  Financial dependence keeps women in abusive jobs and abusive relationships.  If they get married they need to know the laws about their married finances - counting on the good will of a partner is not enough.  This is why I hate the situations where women stay home after the children, not only are they in a situation of financial dependency, they are not building work history or pensions.  This means you need to support their education and job training.  Are you setting aside savings for higher education?

- your daughters need to know their self-worth is not dependent on having a man or having children.  Too many girls/women get into bad relationships because all their friends are dating and they feel left out.  Or they desperately want a baby and are not being picky about the quality of the sperm donor they are linking their life with.

- they need to be able to defend themselves, and they need to be able to see trouble coming and get out.  If they are not athletic, they need even more to be able to get out of situations before they become physical, and take a self defense class because they will need it more.

- be an active father in their lives.  Don't assume that because they are girls that they will be mostly interacting with their mother.   You are their first and strongest example of what men are like, so you need to be present.  Plus if you/your wife teach them the skills that are not traditional for girls, they will be able to cope with flat tires and assembling furniture and barbecues and all the other things that they are perfectly capable of doing.

- The biggest thing is the relationship between you and your wife.  If you expect to have the final say at home, you are setting your daughters up to accept their boyfriends/husbands will also have the final say.  If you and your wife have very traditional gender roles that is what they will expect.  Traditional gender roles can work fine, but they are also really easy to abuse.  If you manage all the finances and your wife just goes along, then your daughters will not see themselves as being capable of managing their finances.  If you expect your wife to do things for you because she is your wife, but you don't reciprocate, that is what your daughters will expect in their relationships.  Google Matthew Fray.  If you expect your wife to do all the emotional and organizational work in your life, that is what your daughters will expect is normal. 

- the next biggest thing is the immediate environment - if all the other girls they know are being raised to be subservient and ignorant and pliable, your girls will most likely adopt those behaviours even if you are setting a better example.  Look at their schools, their friends, their after-school activities.  Similarly, if the boys are being raised as entitled misogynists, what are they learning about male behaviour and what they can expect from boyfriends/husbands?

Being a parent is challenging.  Good luck.

Lol, the first university neuroscience lecture I gave was all about neurotransmitters and hormone signaling. My mom attended and sat in the front row because she was so proud of me.

I had a whole section on oxytocin and how it is well known to trigger bonding and love sensations, but much less is publicized about it's role in generating aggression.

By the end of the lecture my mom hugged me and said a little stunned "omg, it makes so much sense now...and it's not *my* fault, it's *your* fault!" My mom has a wicked sense of humour.

Suffice to say, it's a totally normal reaction for new parents to get all revved up to physically fight. It's not a terribly useful reaction in this day and age, but it's a powerful one.

We can't help it, the same hormone that makes us fall in love with little babies simultaneously drives us to want to kill.

[Villanelle]

I have a wife, three sons, a daughter, and am trained in Judo.

I grew up in poverty and abuse, then was placed in foster care in a trailer park, then got placed in an inner city house in one of the highest crime ghettos in the USA. On the street I grew up on, a quarter of the houses were burned down by arson, a quarter were vacant, and 100% of them were broken into on a regular basis.

Our own house was broken into around a dozen times and our detached garage was burned to the ground. We eventually put steel bars on the windows and used steel security doors, and had cameras everywhere.

This is the kind of area where the pizza places refused to even deliver pizzas to. One neighbor's house was burned down, another neighbor overdosed on drugs, and you could see bullet holes in some of the houses. You could buy a whole house for around $3,000 dollars because NO ONE wanted to live there. That is not a typo. Hearing gunfire at night was so common this didn't even alarm us unless we thought it was right outside.

Despite being in one of the highest crime areas of the USA I have never - in my life - actually had to use any of my martial arts skills outside of the martial arts studio. Most criminals, in my experience, are not out to hurt you unless you give them a reason to. They are there to take your stuff, preferably things they can sell fast and buy another bag of drugs with. If you cooperate they will likely disappear with your things and you won't be hurt much. Again - in my experience.

I will tell you the same story my sensi told me years ago as well. He said when he was training, his sensi had multiple black belts in various martial arts. One day a lady was robbed right outside of the studio.

His sensi ran out, chased them to their car. As they drove away, he jumped onto the car and busted the window out with his bare hand and started beating the guy senseless as he was trying to drive away.

Everyone cheered - it was just like the scene out of an action movie. His sensi had multiple black belts and competed professionally in multiple martial arts, so they knew he could win almost any fight.

Then there was a single gunshot and his sensi fell off the car. The bad guy drove away. Everyone rushed out to find the sensi dead, with a single bullet right between the eyes.

He had multiple black belts and specifically trained people how to disarm people, which gave him enough confidence to attack someone without knowing if they were armed or not, which got him killed.

My sensi drilled this into us. Don't be stupid. Money and things can be replaced, no matter how valuable you feel they are. Lives cannot be replaced.

The best thing you can do for your daughters is to be a good example, and train them how to spot and avoid criminally minded people before they get close to them. Train them that it is not ok to be physically or sexually abused by anyone, under any circumstance, even by family members.

You cannot always be there for your kids. They will be in school, in activities, at friends houses and relatives houses. In addition you will die someday - but what you teach them will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

You also have to consider that one of your own family members might wind up being the biggest threat to your daughters. I have, sadly, had more than one father in my life tell me how much they will protect their daughter only to later discover they were the one raping their own daughter.

I'm not saying you will ever do this. My point is it could be your own brother, or your own son, or your own nephew, or your own cousin, etc. Unfortunately girls are often hurt by someone they know or are close to, not by a stranger per se, as most people imagine.

Good luck. Parenting is, perhaps, the most challenging thing I have done in my life.

I think there is a lot of great content in this post.

But I'm guessing you are a man, and the bolded is probably less true for women than men. Yes, women are equally (if not more so) subject to muggers and home invaders and similar who do just want valuables.  But they are also far more subject to a different category of criminal that isn't interested in money, or only money.  My upbringing was very different than yours, but the only crimes I've been a victim of had nothing at all to do with money.  Cooperating and "giving them what they want" has a very different context in those types of crimes.  Even then, however, I'm not sure the answers are much different.  If they have a weapon, martial arts are unlikely to help.

[Margie]

I understand 100% the OP concerns.  I think the best way to keep your children safe is to model good behaviour and hopefullly they will pick good friends and good romantic partners.  If your children date someone who they need a restraining order against, well, that is exactly the person who is not going to respect it.  You should be willing to make sure they (and it is sadly usually a man) know your child is not going to be their victim.  Have your children be in good physical shape so they can fight back if needed and in good mental condition so those type of people don't pick them in the first place.   Don't give your children trouble for standing up to a bully even if they get in trouble at school.  (What a way to reward bullies and to ensure they keep bullying!)

That said, good grief, I would never stay married to a man who would hide in the closet with me!   I say this, sadly, with some experience.  Last year a man broke into our house in the middle of the night.  Thankfully, my husband and teenage son went right into action.  My daughter and I looked for places to hide or to escape.   This wasn't something we had planned or practiced 'fire drills' on.  No one prepares for this.  The police came and once they realized we were not criminals they told us that they would have done the same thing but that next time they should just let him take what he wants.  My husband, said very clearly "that's the problem; he isn't welcome to take my stuff or hurt my family - he picked the wrong house"  (He of course said it a bit rougher)  It was wild, no one was thinking clearly. 

He had a major advantage in that he was awake while we were sleeping.  No one can think "I would hide and then call police" or 'I would fight' or "I would run"  You literally have no idea what you would do and I would respectfully suggest that unless you have had military or police training you will react under instinct.   The criminal made up a bizarre story and charges were laid. Hopefully he rethinks his life because the next home owner might actually have a heart attack and die.  I honestly think if I was a bit older I would have.  I was terrified.  My daughter was physically ill once the police left.   My son thinks what a POS and while he won't go looking for him he doesn't regret his actions that night.  My husband wishes he had woken up a minute earlier.   This has cost us our sense of safety, 100s in therapy, time and money to fix garage door and 100s in security cameras.  We already had an alarm and thankfully I had set it that night.  Gave the criminal only a minute before we were woken up.   (He didn't even know we had an alarm because we have silenced our countdown due to waking each other up - so it is silent until it goes off)   

We live in a nice, middle to upper middle class neighbourhood, in Canada.  The police told us he probably picked our home to take our vehicles.  He probably planned to grab the keys and distribute them to his runners and then go.  We, however, having been woken from a deep sleep had no way of knowing his intentions or even having the ability to think clearly.  It was pure instincts.   This part makes me mad when I think of it now, he KNEW people were asleep in the house and he came in anyway. 

Anyhow, I think it isn't so clear cut.   I don't want to get into a pissing match on the internet and honestly, I think whatever a victim does to survive is the right decision - run, fight back clawing at his face or junk, send your brother to knock him out, honestly, I don't care that much about the criminals anymore.  I wouldn't go looking for trouble but I am definitely not going to look the other way while they victimized me nor would I give someone any grief for defending themselves.  Maybe, they should be a bit more afraid of attacking people or breaking into people's houses.

I'd rather have a warrior in the garden then a gardener in a war, or however that saying goes.

Good luck OP!  Parenting isn't for the faint of heart!!

[Margie]

@curious george

I just took a look, quickly, at the first link.  I agree it is odd that someone would come in unarmed to someone else's house but they do. 

The police told us they don't expect any resistance.  People normally sleep through it!!   We would have slept through if the alarm hadn't woken us.  I do think I may have woken up when one of our trucks was started (closest to house and sometimes a bit rumbly when cold).  But, honestly, it was terrifying and I can't believe criminals are so brazen.  This one, by the end, was also terrified so I do feel a bit of relief in knowing that...he won't come back to my house anyway.  I normally don't wish bad things on people but I hope he has panic attacks every time he thinks about doing it again.   

I am particularly surprised in the US that anyone would go unarmed given all the potentially armed homeowners.  In Canada, it is less likely a homeowner would have a firearm ready to go.

But, alas, I need to stop thinking about it as it causes me a bit of anxiety still.  If I go to the what if's; it is hard to stop my brain.  Had he made it to my daughter's bedroom - someone would have died that day.   I have absolutely no doubt about that.  I am fairly convinced that his goal was our vehicles and not us.  But, it is hard sometimes to stop the mind from wandering. 

I do believe that the vast majority of people are good but it does suck a bit to meet one of the bad ones.   Good luck to all!

[charis]

I'm not surprised burglars often enter homes unarmed and while the occupants are sleeping.  First, carrying a firearm to protect yourself during a burglary comes with the inherent risk that someone will die, which is typically not the goal of a simple property theft, and/or lead to additional charges if caught.  The best time for a home invasion is when no one is home, the next best time is when everyone is sleeping.   A not uncommon scheme is to look inside and attempt quickly snatch a purse or keys through an open window or unlocked door.

[Morning Glory]

A police officer where I used to live told me that lots of times people just get drunk and wander into the wrong (unlocked) house.  Wonder if some of these cases are getting counted here.

[curious_george]

@curious george

I just took a look, quickly, at the first link.  I agree it is odd that someone would come in unarmed to someone else's house but they do. 

The police told us they don't expect any resistance.  People normally sleep through it!!   We would have slept through if the alarm hadn't woken us.  I do think I may have woken up when one of our trucks was started (closest to house and sometimes a bit rumbly when cold).  But, honestly, it was terrifying and I can't believe criminals are so brazen.  This one, by the end, was also terrified so I do feel a bit of relief in knowing that...he won't come back to my house anyway.  I normally don't wish bad things on people but I hope he has panic attacks every time he thinks about doing it again.   

I am particularly surprised in the US that anyone would go unarmed given all the potentially armed homeowners.  In Canada, it is less likely a homeowner would have a firearm ready to go.

But, alas, I need to stop thinking about it as it causes me a bit of anxiety still.  If I go to the what if's; it is hard to stop my brain.  Had he made it to my daughter's bedroom - someone would have died that day.   I have absolutely no doubt about that.  I am fairly convinced that his goal was our vehicles and not us.  But, it is hard sometimes to stop the mind from wandering. 

I do believe that the vast majority of people are good but it does suck a bit to meet one of the bad ones.   Good luck to all!

I'm so sorry you had to experience that.

I'm glad it sounds like you and your family made it out safe, at least physically, even though it does sound like it was a nerve wracking experience though.

There are some bad people in the world indeed. It sucks. I pray that you can overcome the stress of this trauma. I have spent a lot of my life trying to overcome past trauma.

[RetiredAt63]

Suffice to say, it's a totally normal reaction for new parents to get all revved up to physically fight. It's not a terribly useful reaction in this day and age, but it's a powerful one.

We can't help it, the same hormone that makes us fall in love with little babies simultaneously drives us to want to kill.

It wasn't that I wanted to kill, it is that I had a bad dream (not right after she was born), and after I woke up I started thinking about to what lengths I would physically go to protect her if someone offered her immediate physical harm  And I realized that where I would never on purpose break a kneecap or gouge someone's eyes out in my own self-defence, I would do it, or at least try to, to protect her.  Fortunately I haven't needed to.   ;-)   But the willingness to return violence with violence is definitely there while they are young and vulnerable and defenceless.  I'm sure it helped us survive back when we were not even Homo.

[AMandM]

OP, I totally understand the desire to protect your daughters. They are dear to you and they are vulnerable, so you want to fill that gap of vulnerability. One way to conceptualize the excellent advice others have given is that you will protect them better in the long run, not by changing yourself to increase how much of the gap you can fill, but by bringing them up to decrease the size of the gap.

Thus, you teach them to live below your means, and they will be less vulnerable to financial pressures. You and your wife show them a mutually respectful and loving marriage, and they will be less vulnerable to damaging or abusive relationships. You ask for their opinions, listen to what they have to say, and discuss their ideas, and they will be less vulnerable to being dismissed or gaslit. Etc.

[use2betrix]

I am likely giving criminals way to much credibility here, but they may go unarmed because the penalty for armed burglary and regularly beglurarly are generally pretty significant.

My dog spent 3 days at the vet recently. I found myself thinking more consciously about home security at night, primarily with my 1 year old.

Granted - I’d imagine most buglers stake out their houses. Anyone watching our house would know we have a large dog and alarm system.

Next week we’re leaving for a week and a half and will leave a car in the driveway, a few lights on, my valuables in a closet with further security, and the security system full armed.