Author Topic: Customer support - what is your time worth?  (Read 4732 times)

Ditchmonkey

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Customer support - what is your time worth?
« on: May 19, 2015, 02:23:05 PM »
I'm currently in a customer service nightmare with HBO Now. It doesn't work anymore and they have my 14.99. I've spent about 2 hours now on various support pages and/or calls. At this point I would just like to cancel it and write off the 15 bucks.

So the question is - what is your time worth? How much customer support insanity are you willing to endure to recover a small amount of money?

WildJager

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2015, 02:39:16 PM »
The way I see it on issues like that is there is a problem, so I work with them to solve it.  I've honestly never had any issues with customer support as long as you're cordial and understanding that any limitations usually aren't under the control of those answering the phones.  If the issue can't be resolved, I vote with my money and don't pay anymore for a substandard product.

My biggest moral dilemma is the value of my life wasted watching TV or enjoying similar consumer services.  Do I enjoy the occasional show/ movie/ video game/ whatever?  Sure!  They are a spice of life.  But too much spice can overpower the more subtle aspects that should be enjoyed in life. 

So no.  If a form of entertainment is causing more trouble then it's worth, then I cut it and move on to greener pastures.

Ditchmonkey

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2015, 02:41:54 PM »
The way I see it on issues like that is there is a problem, so I work with them to solve it.  I've honestly never had any issues with customer support as long as you're cordial and understanding that any limitations usually aren't under the control of those answering the phones.  If the issue can't be resolved, I vote with my money and don't pay anymore for a substandard product.

My biggest moral dilemma is the value of my life wasted watching TV or enjoying similar consumer services.  Do I enjoy the occasional show/ movie/ video game/ whatever?  Sure!  They are a spice of life.  But too much spice can overpower the more subtle aspects that should be enjoyed in life. 

So no.  If a form of entertainment is causing more trouble then it's worth, then I cut it and move on to greener pastures.

I don't watch much TV so it's not a matter of being attached to it. The question is, do I cancel and write off the loss of my 14.99, or spend endless hours on phone and/or email trying to get them to fix the problem and/or give my money back? I'm inclined to let it go, 15 bucks isn't worth this frustration.

GetItRight

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2015, 03:59:40 PM »
For HBO, $15 wouldn't be worth my time and frustration. I wish there was an easy way to pay for watching films torrented, or a simple donation or freemium model where I could legally download and watch whatever I want quickly and easily. Going through a cable or satellite box is so slow and tedious, and it's pointless to pay for TV/movies and still have commercials. I don't want some goofy web portal or other BS, just a simple quick download no hassles. I tend to do without anymore as the networks and film companies don't want me watching their stuff in an easy enjoyable way and I don't want to pay for a slow uncomfortable tedious way of watching it. On rare occasions I'll pay to see a movie in a theater, but even that is a pain because of all the hoodlums who can afford to pay top dollar to the theater and then are rude and distracting by being loud and using their phones throughout the film. Anyhow, I'd cancel it and give up on it if they're not being helpful to get the issue sorted.

On the other hand Sallie Mae has given me numerous issues to call customer service and for a period of months I was on the phone with them 5 days a week after work until after they closed. I was determined to get my issue resolved and cost them as much as possible in the process for the pain of the issue and a random $1200 fee they put on one of my accounts with them for no reason and refused to refund. Eventually I got the other issue resolved after a few months they escalated me to the US office and I was threatening to drive up there and not leave until it was resolved. That was worth countless hours over several months to me, but Sallie Mae is a truly evil company with no ethics or moral compass.

Pick your battles based on what is important to you.

OldPro

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2015, 04:45:00 PM »
I'd agree with the idea that you pick your battles.  Sometimes winning a battle at the expense of losing the war can apply to even simple things.  You get the $15 and lose say 20 hours of your life to get it.  I'd call that winning the battle but losing the war.

On the other hand, knowing how to successfully navigate a customer service issue can be a learning lesson best learned where the stakes are low.  So pursuing the $15 not for the $15 but to learn how best to deal with ANY customer service problem can be worth your time.

Learn to document your time with Customer Service.  That means, write down the time you called, the time you got through to a CS representative, the time spent and the outcome of that call.  Write down any transfers to another person, write down the name of the people you talk to even if it is only a first name.  Always ask for their name when you begin the conversation if they do not give it to you and try to get their full name.

Follow their 'formula responses' while being assertive but NOT aggressive or abusive.  Tell the person if you are not satisfied with the response they give you and ask them to give you a supervisor to talk to.  Document that exchange.  This is important, often they do not transfer you to a supervisor, they either put you on hold and then 'drop the call' or simply hand you off to the representative sitting next to them.  But it is important that you asked and document what happened.  If you get that second person and again do not get the problem resolved, tell that person you are not satisfied with the response and ask to be transferred to their supervisor.  Do this as many times as necessary and you MAY get it resolved.  If not, then the fun begins.

By this time you should have been on the phone an hour or more.  Now look up the phone number for the head office of the company and call.   Ask for name of the person in charge of Customer Service for the company.  Probably that is a Vice President.  Ask to be put through to that person.  Probably, you will get his/her secretary/assistant.  Go ahead and explain to the secretary/assistant that you have spoken to their CS line, spent an hour (or more) on the phone, can document by the minute what happened and who you spoke to and have NOT gotten a satisfactory response.  Say you now you want to talk to the person in charge since their system is not doing the job it should be doing.  Your chances are around 90%+ that you will now get attention.

Years ago, I had a problem with a Jeep Cherokee.  I called Customer Service and got the run around from one office to another for a couple of hours until everywhere was closed for the day.  The next morning I tried again and got more of the run around.  Then I called Chrysler's head office in Detroit and asked to speak to the VP in charge of Jeep.  I got his secretary who told me he was in fact out of town.  I explained my problem to her including a few examples of specific remarks that had been made to me and which I had written down with a time and name.  Since her boss was out of town she asked me for my phone number and told me I would get a call from someone within 15 minutes.

After about 10 minutes my phone rang.  The woman who was calling told me her name and that she was in the 'Executive Office' of Chrysler.  She asked me if I had documented my calls as I had told the secretary.  She then asked me to read all of what I had written down.  Clearly, she was making notes and was not happy at what she was hearing.

Long story short, my problem got resolved immediately and at considerable expense to Chrysler.  The owner of the dealership who ended up fixing the problem asked me, 'who do you know at Chrysler?'  He told me he had never had a call from the Executive Office of Chrysler tellling him to solve a problem before.  It was like having got a call from God.  I later found out the 'Executive Office' consisted of 5 people including the then President Lee Iacocca.  None of the other 4 members of the Executive Office had titles.  They were just the 'Executive Office' and all had the power of God within Chrysler.  I have no doubt she used the info I gave her to do some house cleaning within their system.  None of that would have happened though if I had no documented everything or if I had lost my temper and became agressive.

Since then, I look forward to calls to a CS department.  I'm polite, I'm assertive and IF I am in the right, I always get my problem resolved to my satisfaction.  But you have to do it right, keep your cool and be persistent. 

As for my experience with Chrysler, I sent flowers to the secretary of the Jeep VP, not the woman who actually made things happen.  Why?  Because the secretary was the person who 'opened the door' to getting things done.  It's always nice to say thanks.

Retired To Win

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2015, 05:35:59 PM »
I'm currently in a customer service nightmare with HBO Now. It doesn't work anymore and they have my 14.99. I've spent about 2 hours now on various support pages and/or calls. At this point I would just like to cancel it and write off the 15 bucks.

So the question is - what is your time worth? How much customer support insanity are you willing to endure to recover a small amount of money?

Rationally, I should not pursue a $14.99 matter beyond an hour of my time at most.  The thing is, however, that these situations become matters of principle and end up having nothing to do with money.  They have to do with not being treated disrespectfully and dismissively.

Cpa Cat

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2015, 05:47:05 PM »
I'm currently in a customer service nightmare with HBO Now. It doesn't work anymore and they have my 14.99. I've spent about 2 hours now on various support pages and/or calls. At this point I would just like to cancel it and write off the 15 bucks.

So the question is - what is your time worth? How much customer support insanity are you willing to endure to recover a small amount of money?

This is why I like keeping my bills on credit cards, whenever possible. Then, if they jerk me around too hard, I can just reverse the charges with the credit card company - which is generally a 5-10 minute process if you've made any kind of effort to resolve the issue.

LiveLean

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2015, 06:29:23 PM »
It's not just cable companies, though.

I regularly get doctors' bills for $3 to $20. It's an invoice showing that they ran it through my insurance provider, which allowed X and paid Y and after my co-pay (usually paid during the office visit) the difference is what I owe them. I'm usually skeptical and feel it's in error, but it's not worth it to deal with doctors office people. So I pay it. I'm sure they have actuaries who have told them the exact amount they can bill before people will call and actually raise a stink.


The_path_less_taken

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2015, 06:38:25 PM »
quote]

Rationally, I should not pursue a $14.99 matter beyond an hour of my time at most.  The thing is, however, that these situations become matters of principle and end up having nothing to do with money.  They have to do with not being treated disrespectfully and dismissively.
[/quote]



Hello, my fellow tilter-of-windmills...  ;-0

There's nothing worse than being right, and having a large institution piss on your head with a smirk because they think: "What? Some individual person is going to stand up to us, and fight us in court? Never happen."

Guess again...

Agree with all who say that you should document whom you speak to for PRECISELY how many minutes, and keep getting passed up the food chain. Also, in this day of yelp and facebook and instant karma...companies are wary of someone rattling cages.

Unfortunately, the opposite isn't often true: today I demanded to see the manager at an auto parts store. The guy came over, visibly nervous...until I mentioned that I've been a professional mystery shopper for years and that while I wasn't shopping his company today, it was too bad: I'd have given his employee Dwight a ten score AND a letter to corporate. They both stood there with their mouths open until the manager finally thanked me, saying: "No one ever demands to see the manager for compliments. You're the first."

And THAT'S a serious flaw with our society. There should be more attaboys. God knows they don't pay those people anything.

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 06:47:15 PM »
It's not just cable companies, though.

I regularly get doctors' bills for $3 to $20. It's an invoice showing that they ran it through my insurance provider, which allowed X and paid Y and after my co-pay (usually paid during the office visit) the difference is what I owe them. I'm usually skeptical and feel it's in error, but it's not worth it to deal with doctors office people. So I pay it. I'm sure they have actuaries who have told them the exact amount they can bill before people will call and actually raise a stink.

Under your insurance contract, they likely are not allowed to balance bill you like that.  I fight ALL issues with my doctor's/health insurance.  I have a bit of a martyr complex and feel like I am at an advantage as a lawyer and have the resources to stop the wrong in a way that it might, possibly, be stopped for other people too.

In one example, my insurance was refusing to pay for a medication I need but was willing to pay for a much more expensive brand.  I appealed it all of the way up.  I won and it not only got approved for me but it was added to the formulary so now it is covered for everyone in my state.

My husband is more of the opinion that most issues are not worth our time.  For his example, worker's comp didn't pay for a $40 brace he needed and the bill was going to go to collections.  He just paid it.  He has already talked to the comp people for over two hours and they can't figure out why the bill wasn't paid or how to get him the money.  He gave up.  I'm not ready too because that is what they are hoping everyone does.  If we all fight to get our money back, maybe they will stop screwing us.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 06:50:38 PM »
[...]
Since then, I look forward to calls to a CS department.  I'm polite, I'm assertive and IF I am in the right, I always get my problem resolved to my satisfaction.  But you have to do it right, keep your cool and be persistent. 
[...]
Great story, OldPro. Saving this somewhere for future reference.

OldPro

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2015, 07:35:57 AM »
Thanks Paul and as the path less taken notes, don't forget the thank you.   Whether you send someone flowers or actually take the time to write a letter on real paper using real ink or just say, 'thanks for your help', the form of the thank you doesn't matter but the impact of the thank you will last a long time.  The next person who asks for help is gonna get that same great customer service.  You can take that to the bank.

Here we have LiveLean saying, "I'm sure they have actuaries who have told them the exact amount they can bill before people will call and actually raise a stink."  I'd say that's a pretty cynical attitude for someone who PAYS the bills and then complains about it.  You don't fix a system by 'going along' or 'not being bothered'.  Blonde Lawyer got a change that affects her entire state! 

Perhaps if more people pursued things as Blonde Lawyer does, everyone would get great Customer Service since not providing it wouldn't be allowed to pass.  But as long as the majority of people don't pursue things, guess what the result will be.

The assumption that ever time there is a problem with customer service it is because the company INTENDS there to be a problem or uses actuaries to figure out what they can get away with, is insulting to the vast majority of customer service departments of companies who in fact WANT to resolve problems and keep their customers happy.  Usually it is the failures of their SYSTEM that causes the problem, not any unwillingness of the people to solve the problem.

As the saying goes, 'either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem.'  And as the path less taken says, sometimes it is not about the money it is about the principle.  Spending our time solving a problem on principle rather than the money is always worthwhile doing.  That is a battle worth fighting.  We just have to learn the right tactics needed to win that battle.

I'd say the biggest problem with customer service issues is the apathy of the consumer. 

 

Ditchmonkey

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2015, 10:23:41 AM »
The assumption that ever time there is a problem with customer service it is because the company INTENDS there to be a problem or uses actuaries to figure out what they can get away with, is insulting to the vast majority of customer service departments of companies who in fact WANT to resolve problems and keep their customers happy.  Usually it is the failures of their SYSTEM that causes the problem, not any unwillingness of the people to solve the problem.

I'd say the biggest problem with customer service issues is the apathy of the consumer. 


Come on now, this is ridiculous. The one thing you are correct about is that it is not the fault of the individual support person. Rather, it IS the fault of the management in that corporation that made support a low-priority service that is underfunded and has poorly-trained staff.

Since I subscribed to HBO Now through Itunes, I had to start my inquiry with Apple. Apples support system is remarkably sophisticated, their staff is well-trained and courteous, and I would rate that experience as very positive. HBO's support is a three ring circus - it just doesn't work. According to you, it is MY job to affect changes within HBO's system as a consumer, since management there has obviously has little interest in excelling in this area. Ridiculous.

I work at a large company that is known for great support. The company takes pride in that, and support is a well-funded, well-trained, and well supported department. That is a rarity these days.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 10:31:57 AM by Ditchmonkey »

OldPro

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2015, 11:26:04 AM »
I understand what you are saying Ditchmonkey but you are only looking at it from one perspective.

I agree it is management's responsibility to insure their system works as intended.  However, I don't believe they are always aware that it is NOT working as intended.  My story about my experience with Chrysler is a case in point.  When I got to that top executive in their head office, it was very clear to me that she found what I was telling her happened to be totally unacceptable to her.  She wanted all the details so that she knew just where to go and who to deal with to insure such a response was not encountered again by OTHER customers.  She wasn't concerned just with solving my problem, she was probably far more concerned with solving her company's customer service problem.

I would challenge your suggestion that companies don't care about their customer service.   Call the President of HBO and ask him, 'do you not care about your Customer Service?'  I seriously doubt his honest answer would be, 'no, I don't give a shit about keeping customers happy.'

What is far more likely is that he has no idea of how a customer may be treated when they call in.  He issues a directive, 'take care of our customers' and expects it to happen.  He doesn't micro-manage the people who are expected to make it happen.  So unless a customer actually tells him, 'hey, your customer service sucks', how do you expect him to know there is a problem?  Do you think the lousy trained customer service representatives are phoning him and saying, 'hey, we can't do our job right because we aren't trained properly.'

Every contract has explicit and implied responsibilities on all parties.  The customer is responsible for telling the supplier when they aren't happy with the product that was supplied.  The supplier CANNOT be responsible for KNOWING if the customer is happy.  The customer has to tell the supplier. 

I think you would have to agree Ditchmonkey that what some people posting are saying is that they don't tell the supplier they aren't happy, they just accept what they get and complain about it here.  You can't tell a Customer Service person you are unhappy with Customer Service.  You have to tell someone ABOVE Customer Service that you are unhappy with Customer Service.

Ditchmonkey

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2015, 11:35:40 AM »
I understand what you are saying Ditchmonkey but you are only looking at it from one perspective............


First of all, my thread wasn't about complaining about HBO. It was about discussing what our time is worth and what is not worth pursuing given the value of that time.

You are describing, and making excuses for, poorly run businesses. Why do you think Apple's customer service is light years ahead of HBO's? Because Apple has better customers that gave more feedback about support? Really?

Our support team in continually evaluated through an internal QA process. You don't deliver great products and services by being ignorant of how your company functions or how your customers perceive you. YOU STAY ON TOP OF THAT STUFF.


sisto

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2015, 01:24:42 PM »
quote]

Rationally, I should not pursue a $14.99 matter beyond an hour of my time at most.  The thing is, however, that these situations become matters of principle and end up having nothing to do with money.  They have to do with not being treated disrespectfully and dismissively.



Hello, my fellow tilter-of-windmills...  ;-0

There's nothing worse than being right, and having a large institution piss on your head with a smirk because they think: "What? Some individual person is going to stand up to us, and fight us in court? Never happen."

Guess again...

Agree with all who say that you should document whom you speak to for PRECISELY how many minutes, and keep getting passed up the food chain. Also, in this day of yelp and facebook and instant karma...companies are wary of someone rattling cages.

Unfortunately, the opposite isn't often true: today I demanded to see the manager at an auto parts store. The guy came over, visibly nervous...until I mentioned that I've been a professional mystery shopper for years and that while I wasn't shopping his company today, it was too bad: I'd have given his employee Dwight a ten score AND a letter to corporate. They both stood there with their mouths open until the manager finally thanked me, saying: "No one ever demands to see the manager for compliments. You're the first."

And THAT'S a serious flaw with our society. There should be more attaboys. God knows they don't pay those people anything.
[/quote]
I 100% agree with you on this. I go out of my way to make sure good customer service is recognized. So true that the manager is always surprised by it.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Customer support - what is your time worth?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 03:32:54 PM »

So the question is - what is your time worth? How much customer support insanity are you willing to endure to recover a small amount of money?

I'd spend 10 mins to fix a $15 problem. As long as the 10 mins wasn't grossly aggravating.

-- Vik