Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE

[Asgard01]

Hi all,

I was reading a post on here about who you talk about your FIRE plans to and it got me thinking. What are the things that make people think that such a pursuit is crazy, weird, doomed to fail. What have people said in criticism of it all?

For me who has told most my close work friends and real friends who actually are quite in awe mostly, the ones who are against it often say that they prefer to live for now than save for the uncertain future. I respond to this by saying I do both. They say that you are depriving yourself of such and such, to which I reply deprivation is a mindset, I do not feel deprived. In fact it's completely the opposite.

Other such criticisms have been that, what if the stock market disappears, what if you die tomorrow. How can you possibly bring children into the equation later on and still have the same plans, how boring life must be and doesn't that make you a bit boring..

I am quite open about my plans to those I already know but I do have some regret about telling some people at work as they know I have money, they often bring that fact up which I think naturally some people can resent and feel jealous of. I no longer mention all of this so openly to new people.

Chris

[lizfish]

We've mentioned it to virtually no-one except a bit to my in-laws. The problem is the philosophy is so different to what most people we know live by, that we just can't be bothered to even fight the objections. And we're not even that mustachian by the standards here on the forum. Our savings rate is barely 50%.

The fact we have investments at all (including a pension even) makes us virtually unique amongst close friends.  They just wouldn't understand why we would 'sacrifice' an expensive foreign holiday to save up to pay cash for our home improvements rather than extend the mortgage. Or why we would deny ourselves new clothes and a new TV and instead invest. "What do you spend it on?" They ask. "Not having to work forever" is my answer if I'm feeling flippant.

I want to educate people but I'm not going to try if all we get back is "I don't want to be boring like you two" or "well we're not rich like you" the latter coming from one friend who was earning at least as much as both me and DH combined.

It's difficult because this is a long-term thing and our plans are going to become hard to hide if we're doing it right and working less and taking care of our kids. We can't avoid the subject for ever.

[bluecollarmusician]

I think that there is pretty strong push towards social conformity... and when you act outside of it, people pressure you to conform.  We don't really talk about FI or FIRE at all, but inevitably our real estate comes up, and generally people know we have eggs in other baskets. 

When I used to be into bodybuilding, etc. people were constantly trying to get me to "eat this" or "try that"- almost as if they want you to fail in your goals, but really they are just trying to get you to conform to social norms.  Outliers make people nervous.

[Asgard01]

I want to educate people but I'm not going to try if all we get back is "I don't want to be boring like you two" or "well we're not rich like you" the latter coming from one friend who was earning at least as much as both me and DH combined.

Yeah, I think it can make friends find it hard to relate to you in some ways as you have no real money concerns it at least not in the same way. I do have a couple friends though who are now pursuing it to a lesser degrees than me though.

[EarlyRetirementGuy]

"You'll be bored"

I think that's the single most common theme from people I've hinted towards. They seem to believe that once you stop working you'll just sit inside all day in boredom. I've tried explaining that being financially independent means you have the freedom to do what you want with your time and so you'll only be bored if you make yourself bored.. but they still disagree.

[MoneyCat]

Some people just get jealous because they lack the discipline to plan their future that well.  They project their feelings of inadequacy onto you.  I haven't told anybody what I plan to do with my life.  Fewer headaches that way.

[WildJager]

I was chatting with some co-workers recently.  For background, my wife and I both work and have no children (I'm 28 she's 26).  At one point I was getting razzed over the "old" 2003 Ford Ranger I drive.  The conversation eventually drifted to money and retirement, and per my usual MO I kept mostly quiet.  One buddy asked during the discussion how much we save, to which I replied, "Oh, we try to save more than half."  (Actually, it's about 80%, but I only gloat on random internet forums).  That was enough to raise a few eyebrows. 

Later in the conversation someone again challenged me over my cheap car.  "The money I saved by not buying a new vehicle allowed me to pay for my powered paraglider I fly every weekend."  I use my "cheap" truck to transport it to the flying field.  :)  I tried to put the concept of saving for things you actually enjoy by not buying excessive junk in perspective.  Regardless, the response I got was:

"Well, it's easy to buy toys like that when you and your spouse both make money."

No regard for the whole "saving over 50%" (which means we live on less than one paycheck), nor the "saving $20k on a car means I can do other things!"  Nope, the only thing that mattered is that we have a slightly higher arbitrary income. 

The point of this story is that everyone is a victim if they allow themselves to be.  Most people just can't understand what you're trying to do.  Right now, in the US at least, the culture is that we are all victims to something.  Ah well, let them wallow.  I'm going to go fly!

[Morfas44]

Ive thought long and hard about this blog's message and decided to pursue a career I like while trying to save by eating in and living close to work. Those are the two big messages I got from this blog.I anticipate pursuing an enjoyable career and 'working' until I can't. It beats chasing money whether it involves saving or earning.

[G-dog]

I think that there is pretty strong push towards social conformity... and when you act outside of it, people pressure you to conform.  We don't really talk about FI or FIRE at all, but inevitably our real estate comes up, and generally people know we have eggs in other baskets. 

When I used to be into bodybuilding, etc. people were constantly trying to get me to "eat this" or "try that"- almost as if they want you to fail in your goals, but really they are just trying to get you to conform to social norms.  Outliers make people nervous.

Yes - the push to conform is strong, even when it isn't an option (you are too tall, too short, too black, etc.)
They also want you to desire to conform, having the 'wrong' attitude really pisses them off.

[deborah]

"Well, it's easy to buy toys like that when you and your spouse both make money."

No regard for the whole "saving over 50%" (which means we live on less than one paycheck), nor the "saving $20k on a car means I can do other things!"  Nope, the only thing that mattered is that we have a slightly higher arbitrary income. 

They could have got the message that your powered paraglider was the 50% savings - rather than as well as.

[G-dog]

People seem to think it is just not possible - maybe they put it into the 'too good to be true' category.  Some big arbitrary or random luck has to happen to you to make this possible, I guess this simultaneously forgives them from trying...

[MsRichLife]

When I was younger and mentioned I was going to retire by 40 I had a lot of older people tell me that I should just enjoy myself while I was young. I copped a lot of crap for being a 'slumlord' because I rented houses to local University students. Some people were quite hostile (usually much older people), but I had others who saw what I was doing and were inspired to do the same (mostly my peers).

Now that I'm a bit older (37), people don't seem to comment at all when I mention early retirement or financial independence. A few years back I asked to start working part time and my boss seemed really impressed that I could take a 20% pay cut no problem. He seemed genuinely pleased for me when I said I am now in a position where I value my time more that the extra money.

The one problem I do have is family. They see us as 'rich'. Even though we are pretty frugal, they know I earn a bit and have saved and invested a lot. They also see us travelling and equate that to large expenses, even though we do without in other areas of our life.

I have even had my mother ask me to loan a significant amount of money to my Aunt. Said Aunt drives an expensive car, pays a cleaner to clean her excessively large house and won't hold down a job because she's too busy chasing the next get rich quick scheme. I was highly offended and told my mother that I don't go without cars and cleaners and live frugally so that I can be hit up for money to fund other people's excessive lifestyles. I get the sense that others in my family think I'm 'lucky', and give me no credit for working hard, doing without and saving. They treat me like I've won the lottery.

[G-dog]

When I was younger and mentioned I was going to retire by 40 I had a lot of older people tell me that I should just enjoy myself while I was young. I copped a lot of crap for being a 'slumlord' because I rented houses to local University students. Some people were quite hostile (usually much older people), but I had others who saw what I was doing and were inspired to do the same (mostly my peers).

Now that I'm a bit older (37), people don't seem to comment at all when I mention early retirement or financial independence. A few years back I asked to start working part time and my boss seemed really impressed that I could take a 20% pay cut no problem. He seemed genuinely pleased for me when I said I am now in a position where I value my time more that the extra money.

The one problem I do have is family. They see us as 'rich'. Even though we are pretty frugal, they know I earn a bit and have saved and invested a lot. They also see us travelling and equate that to large expenses, even though we do without in other areas of our life.

I have even had my mother ask me to loan a significant amount of money to my Aunt. Said Aunt drives an expensive car, pays a cleaner to clean her excessively large house and won't hold down a job because she's too busy chasing the next get rich quick scheme. I was highly offended and told my mother that I don't go without cars and cleaners and live frugally so that I can be hit up for money to fund other people's excessive lifestyles. I get the sense that others in my family think I'm 'lucky', and give me no credit for working hard, doing without and saving. They treat me like I've won the lottery.

Ouch! How did your mom react? I hope she is supporting your decision.

[Malaysia41]

 I get the sense that others in my family think I'm 'lucky', and give me no credit for working hard, doing without and saving. They treat me like I've won the lottery.

I was at a kid b-day party today and chatted with a woman for quite a while.  She works at a start up and has NO time.  Eventually, she asked about our work and I said my husband just retired last month and I'm about to in the coming month.  Her reply was, "oh, how lucky."  I thought that was a strange comment.  I responded, "actually it took quite a lot of planning.  Sure, at times our jobs  gushed money at us, and I suppose you could call those periods lucky, but we put that surplus into investments rather than say, fancy cars." 

That of course, wasn't so much a criticism. The ones I hear are that we'll get bored, or that if I'm out of the workforce for too long I won't be able to come back. (I took 3 yrs off for maternity leave and my skills were never questioned when I came back to PT work).

[MsRichLife]

Ouch! How did your mom react? I hope she is supporting your decision.

I think she was really shocked at first that I reacted the way I did. I was pretty pi$$ed off at her. I think she was just genuinely worried about her sister...but it was at my expense, which is what made me so angry.

Even now she asks uncomfortable things about our personal finances, so I'm deliberately vague. My husband was layed off from work recently, due to an injury sustained on the job. My mother seems convinced that he's going to get this huge compensation payout, and asks about it every time we speak! She seems more concerned about what she expects will be a financial windfall than how we are coping as a family with our situation.

[MsRichLife]

The ones I hear are that we'll get bored, or that if I'm out of the workforce for too long I won't be able to come back.

I've also had people say, 'Yes, but what are you going to DO?' *laugh* "You won't cope with that sort of (ER) lifestyle!'

They don't seem happy with general vague plans for life post ER. It's like you have to have something that you are still striving for. If I say that we might do some travel or I might get my PhD, they seem a bit more OK with the idea.

I wonder why my ER dreams make other people feel so uncomfortable?

[Beric01]

I'm out of college for 2 years. Many people say I won't be able to sustain my level of frugality (actually, I'm continuing to increase it), or that if I find a partner I'll spend more (that's actually a requirement for having a partner - I refuse to spend more). Some people just can't seem to grasp the simple math. Other people say I need to enjoy life more (I've never enjoyed life as much as when I started living frugally).

I don't get the ones about "what will you do", as I'm interested in travelling the world (frugally of course) and retiring in southeast Asia - perhaps teaching English.

[former player]

I think that there is pretty strong push towards social conformity... and when you act outside of it, people pressure you to conform.  We don't really talk about FI or FIRE at all, but inevitably our real estate comes up, and generally people know we have eggs in other baskets. 

When I used to be into bodybuilding, etc. people were constantly trying to get me to "eat this" or "try that"- almost as if they want you to fail in your goals, but really they are just trying to get you to conform to social norms.  Outliers make people nervous.

Yes - the push to conform is strong, even when it isn't an option (you are too tall, too short, too black, etc.)
They also want you to desire to conform, having the 'wrong' attitude really pisses them off.

It's like they never left high school....

[Nudelkopf]

People have said that I'm too young to understand how expensive life is.

(I'm 22 years old.)
(Maybe they're right?)

[pom]

(Maybe they're right?)

I suspect that they are a little right but it does not matter much if your spreadsheet says that you need 1k a month or 3k a month, what matters is that you understand the mindset that is needed to get there.

I echo the others, the main reaction that I get is "you'll get bored" and as Nudelkopf said "maybe they are right?". That being said, if I get bored i can always work part time or start a business, being FIRE will give me.

[TurtleMarkets]

I noticed that people who get mad or critisize it are ones who have many kids or low income.  Someone with 2 kids 1 income at 40K dont want to hear how we save more than they make. Most my family lives at the poverty line and cant even being to understand what FIRE is. They just assume anyone who makes OK money can do that. People I know who are doing very well income wise are either on board with saving and investing or say fuck it, I make money I want to do fun stuff.

[Travis]

I wonder why my ER dreams make other people feel so uncomfortable?

It's a form of jealousy because they either can't fathom life without the grind of working or they don't think they could do what you're doing and it bothers them to have a discussion about it.  A lot of the ones I run into seem more than willing to poke holes in your plan rather than be supportive.  I think they want to reassure themselves it isn't possible.

[Thegoblinchief]

It's mostly the same criticisms I get for being a homeschooling stay at home parent, basically "what do you do all day?"

My answer: all the things!

[frugalnacho]

People's biggest criticism seems to be insurance.  No one thinks it's possible to get an affordable insurance plan without a full time job.  "Surely you are going to be spending hundreds of thousands on insurance, there goes all your investments!" 

Also get comments about the "quality of life" that we are surely lacking.  No cable, don't run AC, never heat the house above 64*, don't eat at fancy pants restaurants on a regular basis, etc.  I tried explaining that those things don't really enhance my quality of life, and I will be better off without them, but they remain unconvinced.  To them all those little luxuries are necessities to a happy life, even if it means your savings rate is -10%.

[TurtleMarkets]

People have said that I'm too young to understand how expensive life is.

(I'm 22 years old.)
(Maybe they're right?)

LOTS of 22 year old like to claim they will be millionaires by the time they are 30 or 40. People in their 30's kind of get sick of hearing it. Along with major unexpected events have altered tons of peoples lives and they assume the same will happen to others. Just trying to give perspective on why someone may say that you are too young. Many 22 year olds are too young to understand (not implying you are).

[EricL]

People have said that I'm too young to understand how expensive life is.

(I'm 22 years old.)
(Maybe they're right?)

A young fool inspires laughter and derision
An old fool inspires a folly with a following

[RetiredAt63]

"But what will you do?"

Lots of older retirees find lots to do, and their health may not be as good or energy levels as high as younger retirees.

So maybe reply "Same as any retiree - enjoy my kids (if you have them), volunteer, travel, get better at my outside interests"

[forward]

Very few people know of my FIRE interests.  In test the water conversations I hear, "nothing to do" , "boring", "no ambition" etc.  It makes me a bit sad.  Just last week I had a conversation with two women at my workplace, both about 10 years younger than me, neither are married.  They were both adamant that a guy who doesn't go to work every day is not attractive, has no ambition and a SAHD is absolutely out of the question for them.

That said, I've seen several people retire from my place only to come back to work half or full time a year later.  I don't think its financial I think they are bored.   

[Kaspian]

I was thinking about this last weekend after reading the horrible criticism the guy got on this:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/canadian-brother-with-a-moustache!

Some of the criticisms:
"It's a problem because there is more to life than being a robo."
"I doubt it. He will just continue on as always. But with a few more ziplock bags. He won't change. That is the problem"
" living in a basement and listening to the footsteps of others all day and night while washing out ziplock bags to save pennies is not worth it."

Being mortgage-free at 31 is suddenly a "problem"? 

Would these people criticise an Olympic athlete who set a goal and worked for years to attain it?  "Dude, you're missing out on cheeseburgers and pizza!  There's more to life than swimming. Give it up and stop being a calorie-pinching robot."   Probably not.     

Somebody sets a difficult goal.  If working hard in pursuit that goal makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone else, why stand on the sidelines heckling?

[sobezen]

I was thinking about this last weekend after reading the horrible criticism the guy got on this:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/canadian-brother-with-a-moustache!

Some of the criticisms:
"It's a problem because there is more to life than being a robo."
"I doubt it. He will just continue on as always. But with a few more ziplock bags. He won't change. That is the problem"
" living in a basement and listening to the footsteps of others all day and night while washing out ziplock bags to save pennies is not worth it."

Being mortgage-free at 31 is suddenly a "problem"? 

Would these people criticise an Olympic athlete who set a goal and worked for years to attain it?  "Dude, you're missing out on cheeseburgers and pizza!  There's more to life than swimming. Give it up and stop being a calorie-pinching robot."   Probably not.     

Somebody sets a difficult goal.  If working hard in pursuit that goal makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone else, why stand on the sidelines heckling?

+1  EXACTLY!   Those who cannot do, judge.  Ignore the naysayers and just live your life!  Why feel the need to explain to others?  Reduce your stress and just focus on doing more to achieve your goals.  That is what I am doing and I think it works wonderfully.

[MsRichLife]

Just last week I had a conversation with two women at my workplace, both about 10 years younger than me, neither are married.  They were both adamant that a guy who doesn't go to work every day is not attractive, has no ambition and a SAHD is absolutely out of the question for them.

That's terribly sad. I sounds like they are expecting a man to come along and take care of them.

Personally I think it's a great luxury having a househusband and SAHD by my side. A few years back I read the following article, and it really resonated with me. I feel very strongly about breaking the stigma for men to stay home with the kids. Until we do, there won't be true equal opportunities for women in the workplace.

She says that women who want to break through the glass ceiling and reach the top need a husband who is prepared to stay at home and look after the children.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2010836/Rise-stay-home-dad-Or-great-woman-stands--house-husband.html

[G-dog]

Ouch! How did your mom react? I hope she is supporting your decision.

I think she was really shocked at first that I reacted the way I did. I was pretty pi$$ed off at her. I think she was just genuinely worried about her sister...but it was at my expense, which is what made me so angry.

Even now she asks uncomfortable things about our personal finances, so I'm deliberately vague. My husband was layed off from work recently, due to an injury sustained on the job. My mother seems convinced that he's going to get this huge compensation payout, and asks about it every time we speak! She seems more concerned about what she expects will be a financial windfall than how we are coping as a family with our situation.

I understand her feeling concerned for her sister. I hope your husband is recovering. It sounds like you are working on some boundaries with your mom, good luck with that - sorry you have this added stress to deal with now.

[G-dog]

I think that there is pretty strong push towards social conformity... and when you act outside of it, people pressure you to conform.  We don't really talk about FI or FIRE at all, but inevitably our real estate comes up, and generally people know we have eggs in other baskets. 

When I used to be into bodybuilding, etc. people were constantly trying to get me to "eat this" or "try that"- almost as if they want you to fail in your goals, but really they are just trying to get you to conform to social norms.  Outliers make people nervous.

Yes - the push to conform is strong, even when it isn't an option (you are too tall, too short, too black, etc.)
They also want you to desire to conform, having the 'wrong' attitude really pisses them off.

It's like they never left high school....

Hah! Horrible flashback....  We probably really don't advance much, our peer pressure may just be more subtle.

[Beric01]

It's mostly the same criticisms I get for being a homeschooling stay at home parent, basically "what do you do all day?"

My answer: all the things!

Props to you! I'm a homeschooled (from K-12) college graduate. We definitely found things to do. The first thing to recognize, though, is that public schooling is a form of childcare, and an inefficient one at that. I learned far more than my peers spending far less time doing actual "school" activities. There's lot of other things you can do/learn that don't easily fit into a classroom setting.

[dragoncar]

Would these people criticise an Olympic athlete who set a goal and worked for years to attain it?  "Dude, you're missing out on cheeseburgers and pizza!  There's more to life than swimming. Give it up and stop being a calorie-pinching robot."   Probably not.     

Well, this is what Michael Phelps ate for dinner:


That being said, yes I would tell most Olympic athletes that there is more to life than swimming.

[MrsPete]

What have people said in criticism of it all?

I'm part of a fairly frugal group of friends, so I can't really think of much criticism.  I know a couple people who kind of "don't get it", and sometimes it's clear that they look at the rest of us and wonder how we're NOT broke a week before payday, etc.  Those people aren't hostile or critical; rather, they just don't seem to connect the dots between eating out 3-4Xs a week, buying new clothes every month . . . and having no money left at the end of the month.  They put little value in being frugal; rather, they seem to think that we're doing better than them financially for other reasons:  Of course you have more money -- you're married and have two incomes; Of course you have more money -- you didn't just move into a new place; Of course you have more money -- you aren't paying off student loans.  But they completely miss the frugal part. 

I did work with a girl years ago who wanted to manage her money better, and she asked me for advice on a regular basis . . . but she rejected my advice 100% of the time.  For example, when we bought our first house, she was crazy-jealous because she'd been out of school /married /working a couple years longer and thought she should've been in a house by that point in her life.  But when she came out to see our house, she was did the backhanded-critical thing:  Laminate countertops?  Oh, I wouldn't be happy with anything but Corian (this was before granite was a thing).  It's a cute house, but I just have to have a pool -- I've been so spoiled having one at the apartment complex.  She could not see that you start out with something inexpensive, then move into the luxury items.  When she divorced and could no longer afford her expensive car, she asked my advice about downsizing -- but then she showed up a few days later in another luxury car; this one being a lease.  She felt sure it was a good choice because the company paid her first month's lease for her, meaning she had a couple hundred dollars RIGHT THEN, which she needed.  When I urged her to break the lease before the few days' time was gone and get something small and used, she said she just couldn't because "some people are used to having nice cars".  Today she and I are both mid-40s, and she still doesn't have a house, owes a ton of money, and is still in the leasing-a-car cycle . . . whereas my financial picture is very different.  Instead of crediting the fact that we've lived frugally all these years, she thinks we've been lucky.  I'm 100% sure she maintains this belief because it "excuses her" from her bad mistakes.  She doesn't have to admit, "Well, if I'd packed bag lunches, I'd have more money too". 

I was chatting with some co-workers recently.  For background, my wife and I both work and have no children (I'm 28 she's 26).  At one point I was getting razzed over the "old" 2003 Ford Ranger I drive. 

Yes, I can relate to this.  Though people don't tend to make comments about our overall life choices, they do sometimes zero in on one frugal decision.  I've also heard, "Are you still driving that same car?"  Why, yes, I am. I bought this car new eight years ago, I've treated it like a baby, and it is still in perfect condition at 80K miles.  I expect it to last at least another decade.  Yet these same people are always in a tizzy when it's time to pay our kids' college tuition; whereas, I just write a check and don't think about it. 

Yes - the push to conform is strong, even when it isn't an option (you are too tall, too short, too black, etc.)
They also want you to desire to conform, having the 'wrong' attitude really pisses them off.

Disagree.  I don't think it's so much a matter of people wanting to conform; rather, I think it's more about people failing to consider the big picture, failing to consider that today's small luxury expenditures add up to big money in the long run.

People seem to think it is just not possible - maybe they put it into the 'too good to be true' category.  Some big arbitrary or random luck has to happen to you to make this possible, I guess this simultaneously forgives them from trying...

Yes, this I believe.  I do think lots of people want to blame their lack of financial success on bad luck:  If I didn't have to deal with this medical problem, or if my parents had paid for my college education, or if I weren't raising a family . . . but they ignore the fact that many of us HAVE faced similar financial roadblocks and have succeeded anyway.

I'm out of college for 2 years. Many people say I won't be able to sustain my level of frugality (actually, I'm continuing to increase it), or that if I find a partner I'll spend more (that's actually a requirement for having a partner - I refuse to spend more). Some people just can't seem to grasp the simple math. Other people say I need to enjoy life more (I've never enjoyed life as much as when I started living frugally).

I don't get the ones about "what will you do", as I'm interested in travelling the world (frugally of course) and retiring in southeast Asia - perhaps teaching English.

Realistically, you will go through periods in your life during which you'll spend more . . . but you'll also go through periods during which you'll save more.  My husband and I are currently in a "bleeding money" phase -- our oldest is in college, and our youngest will begin soon; however, it's okay because we saved aggressively when we were younger, and we're actually spending less than we anticipated.  And this expensive phase of our lives was predictable and is temporary. 

LOTS of 22 year old like to claim they will be millionaires by the time they are 30 or 40. People in their 30's kind of get sick of hearing it. Along with major unexpected events have altered tons of peoples lives and they assume the same will happen to others. Just trying to give perspective on why someone may say that you are too young. Many 22 year olds are too young to understand (not implying you are).

Yeah, I know what you're saying.  Many of my high school seniors have big plans for their futures:  Expensive houses, travel, nice cars . . . yet they have no plans to make this happen through education and work.  They seem to think that people who struggle month-to-month simply didn't choose well.  Those are the kids I don't take seriously. 

[Gmullz]

I'm 26, and really pushing myself to adopt a more FIRE-achieving lifestyle.

When my family (all older) see me making changes, like biking pretty much everywhere, I think they scoff at the notion thinking that when I'm married with kids it won't be possible to bike so much and live a frugal life.

I would agree if I were destined to marry a woman who needed two SUVs and two daily lattes. But I'm hoping to avoid that.

[apfroggy0408]

I'm 23, my parents love the idea, but don't really believe it can be done especially since I'm only single with no kids right now.

[Beric01]

I'm 23, my parents love the idea, but don't really believe it can be done especially since I'm only single with no kids right now.

Same here, actually. My parents are relatively frugal and love the changes I'm making in my life, but don't think FI is realistic for me if I get married and have kids.

At 24, somehow I'm getting the feeling I'll always be single. Such is the life of an INTJ. But I plan to travel the world once I reach FI, so perhaps I'll meet someone then.

[Zikoris]

People have said that I'm too young to understand how expensive life is.

(I'm 22 years old.)
(Maybe they're right?)

People have been telling me "wait until you're in the REAL world" and similar statements regarding financial stuff since I was 18. When I was 18 I was fully independent, had a private apartment, a full time job, and was doing just fine - no financial issues, debt, etc. Well, I'm about to turn 28, and either I'm somehow still living in some fantasy world, or life has steadily gotten a whole lot cheaper over the last decade as I started working the frugality muscles and learning useful skills.

[RetiredAt63]

INTJs get married too - I was married for 37 years before I walked away.  At 24 you probably know yourself better than I did at 22, so your chances of making a good choice are excellent.  Introvert =/= shy, you can certainly meet lots of people.

Sorry to hijack the thread, back to the regularly scheduled programming . . .

At 24, somehow I'm getting the feeling I'll always be single. Such is the life of an INTJ. But I plan to travel the world once I reach FI, so perhaps I'll meet someone then.

[Grid]

I'm 23, my parents love the idea, but don't really believe it can be done especially since I'm only single with no kids right now.

Same here, actually. My parents are relatively frugal and love the changes I'm making in my life, but don't think FI is realistic for me if I get married and have kids.

At 24, somehow I'm getting the feeling I'll always be single. Such is the life of an INTJ. But I plan to travel the world once I reach FI, so perhaps I'll meet someone then.

Whoa whoa whoa.  Hold it right there.  This forum is as much about working toward goals as anything else, and sighing and saying that your personality type prevents you from achieving one of them is ludicrous.  You have a desire, work towards it.  Being single and close to your age, and testing out as an INTJ earlier in life (which may have changed), I can say that I tend to have the most luck either through online dating or finding groups to be a part of that facilitate learning about other members in a more natural setting.  If you would like to be with someone, work toward it!  My wonderful mother (no sarcasm) tries to tell me that you need to let it happen, that you can't force the issue, which is true to an extent.  The problem with that mindset is that if you never place yourself in situations in which you can naturally be allowed to begin a relationship with someone, then you are SOL.  /rant

As for the original question, the instinctual response for most humans when they observe actions that are out of the ordinary is to criticize.  It can reign the person in from possibly deleterious behavior or it can separate the outlier from the group, which can also benefit the individual that performs the criticism.  Hence the reason why lots of us simply don't talk about FI.  There's no kickback, and we still achieve our goals. 

[DollarBill]

"You'll be bored"

I think that's the single most common theme from people I've hinted towards. They seem to believe that once you stop working you'll just sit inside all day in boredom. I've tried explaining that being financially independent means you have the freedom to do what you want with your time and so you'll only be bored if you make yourself bored.. but they still disagree.

I'm into my first week and I don't feel bored :) but I have noticed that time flies by! It use to take so long while working.

[MsRichLife]

At 24, somehow I'm getting the feeling I'll always be single. Such is the life of an INTJ. But I plan to travel the world once I reach FI, so perhaps I'll meet someone then.

I was an INTJ too ( I say 'was' because I think I've matured somewhat into an INFJ), and I know what it's like to feel 'different', but don't give up on finding someone who gets you. My husband and I have been together 12 years now and work because we share many of the same values, even if our personalities are very different.

As for those who are in their early 20's and have a goal for FIRE. Ignore the naysayers, be true to yourself, set yourself interim, short term goals along the way and work hard to achieve them. I knew what I wanted in life when I was 22, and I set out to achieve it. Now at 37 I look back and thank the younger version of me for her foresight, desire to go against the grain, set big goals and work hard to get there.

[Nords]

“You’re too young to be put out to pasture. You have so much ahead of you!”

“Can’t you find a real job?”

“Who wants to spend all day golfing?”

“You’ll lose all your friends!”

“You’re going to retire NOW, in the middle of all this?!? But you’re up for promotion next year and the team needs you!!”

“You’ll lose all your contacts, and you won’t be able to get a job!”

“You’ll be so bored.”

“Your spouse [significant other] [kids] [relatives] will never allow it!”

My favorite comment (that's not in the post) came from a relatively senior officer who took aside my spouse and quite earnestly told her:  "He really needs to start golfing so that he'll have friends, and then when he gets bored they can help him get a job."  My spouse responded "I don't think any of that is going to happen..."

http://the-military-guide.com/2010/10/14/myths-of-military-retirement-and-early-retirement/

[Dances With Fire]

Over the years I have learned to be very careful about who I talk to about topics about money and frugal living. People can get very weird and jelous over money issues. Co-workers and family can be the most difficult.

SIL is a classic example. She takes every chance to show off their expensive lifestyle and thinks we are "poor" because we live in a smaller house instead of their 4000 s.q. ft. new digs. New (leased) cars tend to show up in the drive every holiday, while we drive our "old" cars etc.
We no longer see them much because the BIL is too busy working 2 jobs...

[LibrarIan]

It's brainwashing, plain and simple. Other people have not found their way out of the super comfy, all-you-can-eat, riding-on-debt, fancy-car mindsets that society (through advertising and cultural values) has instilled in them. Anyone who goes against the norm will be derided. All of us here are flipping the bird to mass consumption and figuring out how to turn money into a game (more or less).

Asgard01 noted one of my favorite criticisms: What if the stock market disappears? My answer to this is: If this ever happens, I'm not the only one sinking with the economic ship. Everyone else is, too.

[okashira]

People have said that I'm too young to understand how expensive life is.

(I'm 22 years old.)
(Maybe they're right?)

A young fool inspires laughter and derision
An old fool inspires a folly with a following

Is that your quote? I like.

[J Boogie]

I was chatting with some co-workers recently.  For background, my wife and I both work and have no children (I'm 28 she's 26).  At one point I was getting razzed over the "old" 2003 Ford Ranger I drive.  The conversation eventually drifted to money and retirement, and per my usual MO I kept mostly quiet.  One buddy asked during the discussion how much we save, to which I replied, "Oh, we try to save more than half."  (Actually, it's about 80%, but I only gloat on random internet forums).  That was enough to raise a few eyebrows. 

Later in the conversation someone again challenged me over my cheap car.  "The money I saved by not buying a new vehicle allowed me to pay for my powered paraglider I fly every weekend."  I use my "cheap" truck to transport it to the flying field.  :)  I tried to put the concept of saving for things you actually enjoy by not buying excessive junk in perspective.  Regardless, the response I got was:

"Well, it's easy to buy toys like that when you and your spouse both make money."

No regard for the whole "saving over 50%" (which means we live on less than one paycheck), nor the "saving $20k on a car means I can do other things!"  Nope, the only thing that mattered is that we have a slightly higher arbitrary income. 

The point of this story is that everyone is a victim if they allow themselves to be.  Most people just can't understand what you're trying to do.  Right now, in the US at least, the culture is that we are all victims to something.  Ah well, let them wallow.  I'm going to go fly!

Powered paragliding has been on my radar for a couple years now.  Its probably to most affordable way to fly, but the gear and training is still a little too expensive for me at the moment - getting married in a couple months and I already have an all consuming hobby so it'll stay on the backburner for a while.  I know I could just go to a PPG forum, but I wouldn't mind if you detailed some of your experiences about it here. 

[MrFancypants]

At 24, somehow I'm getting the feeling I'll always be single. Such is the life of an INTJ. But I plan to travel the world once I reach FI, so perhaps I'll meet someone then.

The internet is a wonderful thing.  As a firmly introverted individual I found my wife on a free dating site, she shares many of my introverted qualities.  The first step is to put yourself out there.


Regarding criticism...  I don't share my plans with many people.  Mainly because I don't want to come off as aloof or douchey to people who are genuinely struggling and having a difficult time making ends meet even with a somewhat reasonable financial plan.  But I have chatted about it with a few people who are on the same level as I am and my canned response goes along the lines of this: 

If I fail to retire at the age which I am currently working towards, I'll still be sitting on a paid off house and a mountain of cash with a solid pension and health care benefits at 43 years old;  really, how big of a failure is that?