Author Topic: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE  (Read 15990 times)

sobezen

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2014, 01:21:38 PM »
Sometimes it helps to remember why you are striving for freedom...

"The minute I stopped caring about what other people thought and started doing what I wanted to do is the minute I finally felt FREE."
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 02:20:45 PM by sobezen »

Bob W

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2014, 01:25:22 PM »
This is a safe and friendly place to share your FIRE plans.  Work is not.  Friends are not.  Perhaps your accountant is for tax planning purposes.   Other than that,  mums the word. 

Keep up the good work and God's Speed to you!

dragoncar

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2014, 01:55:19 PM »
I was chatting with some co-workers recently.  For background, my wife and I both work and have no children (I'm 28 she's 26).  At one point I was getting razzed over the "old" 2003 Ford Ranger I drive.  The conversation eventually drifted to money and retirement, and per my usual MO I kept mostly quiet.  One buddy asked during the discussion how much we save, to which I replied, "Oh, we try to save more than half."  (Actually, it's about 80%, but I only gloat on random internet forums).  That was enough to raise a few eyebrows. 

Later in the conversation someone again challenged me over my cheap car.  "The money I saved by not buying a new vehicle allowed me to pay for my powered paraglider I fly every weekend."  I use my "cheap" truck to transport it to the flying field.  :)  I tried to put the concept of saving for things you actually enjoy by not buying excessive junk in perspective.  Regardless, the response I got was:

"Well, it's easy to buy toys like that when you and your spouse both make money."

No regard for the whole "saving over 50%" (which means we live on less than one paycheck), nor the "saving $20k on a car means I can do other things!"  Nope, the only thing that mattered is that we have a slightly higher arbitrary income. 

The point of this story is that everyone is a victim if they allow themselves to be.  Most people just can't understand what you're trying to do.  Right now, in the US at least, the culture is that we are all victims to something.  Ah well, let them wallow.  I'm going to go fly!

Powered paragliding has been on my radar for a couple years now.  Its probably to most affordable way to fly, but the gear and training is still a little too expensive for me at the moment - getting married in a couple months and I already have an all consuming hobby so it'll stay on the backburner for a while.  I know I could just go to a PPG forum, but I wouldn't mind if you detailed some of your experiences about it here.

I also want to do this, or powered parachuting.  But I'm embarrassed to say it's hard to figure out the legalities of where it can be done.  Lots of airports in my area, plus lots of wind nearby.

Goldielocks

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2014, 02:23:55 PM »
People have said that I'm too young to understand how expensive life is.

(I'm 22 years old.)
(Maybe they're right?)

Nope!  I think 22 yr olds on this forum actually have a pretty great understanding of how expensive things are and what is needed to meet goals.

The part that most 22yr olds don't know yet, is how surprising life can turn out.  Many of these surprises result in your making choices you never would have considered.  However, a MMM outlook can be well formed early, and become a sort of framework to help you choose your best options.

Some "typical" areas of life that I am talking about:

1. Getting a partner, lots of surprises and new choices there, as you blend values and share lives.
2.  Kids and the unexpected "mamma bear / pappa bear" drive to ensure they are as well provided for as their peers.   Note that the MMM framework will help you see what is frivolous to you, and what is core values for your family, but that underlying gut feeling of protecting / helping your kids at all costs is huge and unexpected.
3. You, a parent, child or partner having a long term injury.
4. Layoff (and the opportunity to then pursue work in an amazing new direction)
5. Being "called" to a new profession in your 30's.
6. Relocation to a new area or lifestyle.
7. Losing a partner
8. Buying  a home, unexpected repair costs, basic home set up costs, buying tools or garbage cans, or ??
9. Being a victim of a get rich quick scam... or other financial "learning experience", like learning about option calls the hard way...
10. Starting your own business, learning as you go.  Applies to land lording as well as other small businesses. Big learning curves with the first one.

Anyway,  enjoy the journey and keep your values close at hand to guide you through.  You will do great.

Dr. Doom

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2014, 08:10:53 PM »
People's biggest criticism seems to be insurance.  No one thinks it's possible to get an affordable insurance plan without a full time job.  "Surely you are going to be spending hundreds of thousands on insurance, there goes all your investments!" 

I get the insurance thing too.  Along with "your health care costs are going to be in the stratosphere by the time you're in your mid-50s... make sure you budget for that."

Uh, no, I just don't think so.  I'm super active and don't eat corndogs and pizza every day, so probably won't need crazy amounts of meds like most people seem to.  Here's hoping anyway.

Also, in no particular order:
- You have enough in "retirement" to barely live (20k/yr budget with a paid off house).  Why wouldn't you work for another 15 years and just get really rich?  Then you don't have to be so cheap and you can retire like most people do and do whatever you want.  (Where do I start with the answer here?  Seriously?  I've gotten this response from people in their mid 30's with a negative net worth and spend rates of 80K+/yr who think they're going to retire with BILLIONS to a life of Teslas, summer homes, and personal chefs)
- I thought you were pretty happy with your job overall.. why would you want to retire from that?  (Answer:  because the only thing better than a relatively good job is no job and complete freedom to live my life.)
- You'll be bored. (I'm bored with my industry and office life in general. What's the difference between being bored in a cube and bored at home? At least if I'm bored at home I'll have the freedom to address the problem by adding variety to my life in any way I see fit.  Does it matter to anyone where exactly I'll be feeling bored, if I do end up feeling bored, which I totally doubt I will?)

I don't talk about FIRE much anymore except with a handful of friends who have a fair understanding of efficiency, minimalism, and the bleak landscape of modern knowledge-worker positions (I'm in software/IT).

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2014, 08:47:45 PM »
If I fail to retire at the age which I am currently working towards, I'll still be sitting on a paid off house and a mountain of cash with a solid pension and health care benefits at 43 years old;  really, how big of a failure is that?

I like that way of putting it!

G-dog

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2014, 09:45:33 PM »


- You'll be bored. (I'm bored with my industry and office life in general. What's the difference between being bored in a cube and bored at home? At least if I'm bored at home I'll have the freedom to address the problem by adding variety to my life in any way I see fit.  Does it matter to anyone where exactly I'll be feeling bored, if I do end up feeling bored, which I totally doubt I will?)

Yes, you can be busy and bored at the same time (especially at work).  And what's wrong with being bored - a total 1st world problem?

MrsPete

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2014, 07:51:18 PM »
testing out as an INTJ earlier in life (which may have changed),
I doubt it.  I first took the Meyers Briggs in college, and I was an INTJ then.  Over the years I've taken it again several times, and my personality trait has NEVER changed.  The strength of the individual characteristics has changed; for example, when I was younger I was more strongly I whereas now I'm closer to the centerline . . . but I've remained consistent. 

Grid

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #58 on: August 01, 2014, 01:21:20 AM »
testing out as an INTJ earlier in life (which may have changed),
I doubt it.  I first took the Meyers Briggs in college, and I was an INTJ then.  Over the years I've taken it again several times, and my personality trait has NEVER changed.  The strength of the individual characteristics has changed; for example, when I was younger I was more strongly I whereas now I'm closer to the centerline . . . but I've remained consistent.

The only possible switch could be from I to E, but I still prefer to stay away from noisy parties and have one-on-one conversations, and have probably followed the same path you have.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 01:27:37 AM by Grid »

Asgard01

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2014, 12:56:50 PM »
I had one today, a criticism that is. "How can you talk about living simple, not buying into consumerism etc and yet you invest in the stock market, you need those very companies and consumer tendencies people have to do well in order to finance your life. You live in my world of a hypocrisy, contradiction and you don't even realise it"

I didn't expect it at all coming from this particular person

Less

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2014, 02:49:49 PM »
For all the Olympic swimmers, athletes and 31 year olds with no mortgage -

There is nothing more to life then  setting goals and marshaling the gumption to execute them.  The more audacious the better.

If currently your highest goal is to get a coffee you will feel unforfilled.  If your goals challenge and engage you,  then you are living life to the full.  Be that peranthood, athletic feats, academic pasuit or efficient living.

WildJager

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Re: Criticisms given to the pursuit of FIRE
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2014, 06:59:24 PM »
Powered paragliding has been on my radar for a couple years now.  Its probably to most affordable way to fly, but the gear and training is still a little too expensive for me at the moment - getting married in a couple months and I already have an all consuming hobby so it'll stay on the backburner for a while.  I know I could just go to a PPG forum, but I wouldn't mind if you detailed some of your experiences about it here.

Sure.  I've have always loved flying and have tried most forms of recreational flying out there.  I have come to the conclusion that powered paragliding is the easiest, cheapest, and most liberating way to get in to flying for fun.  While non powered gliding is cheaper, you are very limited to where you can launch from.  I've also tried ultralights, but the hang glider wing is very cumbersome to transport.

Even if you're a pilot (I fly full time for the military), training is essential.  The quarks are just too different and you'll most likely end up breaking your gear at least, killing yourself at worst.  Be sure to make proper training part of your budget. 

I spent a little over $7,000 for the engine and wing.  About $1000 for a week of training.  Mike Robinson over at Black Hawk paramotor is who I got my training and gear from.  Great dude and has his phone on him every day to answer personal questions whenever you get stuck.

I also want to do this, or powered parachuting.  But I'm embarrassed to say it's hard to figure out the legalities of where it can be done.  Lots of airports in my area, plus lots of wind nearby.

I can only talk to the US airspace structure.  Powered paragliders fall within the Far/Aim Part 103.  With that regulation we can fly in any G or E airspace.  That's basically anywhere outside of towered airports or very populated areas (cities and such).  Small, uncontrolled fields (or just your local soccer field) are fair game.

The flying is great.  You cruise at about 20 knots depending on the wind.  Because your wing is high above you, you can literally fly while dragging your toes in the sand if you want to.  The highest I've flown is about 3000 ft... but flying down low is much more fun.  The community usually flies in the morning or evening since we don't require thermals to generate lift.  While you can ride thermals to gain altitude mid day, it's a pretty rough ride.  The engine burns about 1 gallon of normal gas station gas (mixed with two stroke oil) an hour.

If you guys have anymore questions feel free to PM me so this thread doesn't get derailed even more.  If I get enough interest I'll consider making a comprehensive thread on the most mustachian way to fly.  :)