Author Topic: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)  (Read 70243 times)

brooklynguy

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2014, 05:13:08 PM »
Careful though. There was a 5% cashback AARP Chase card a while back. A lot of people found themselves blacklisted for life from Chase for churning spending. I think it's fine to buy a few hundred dollars to meet a spending requirement, but I wouldn't personally do thousands for the rewards, at least not on a Chase car. Then again, lots of people do via the Chase Ink 5% cashback at Office Supply stores, but know there is some degree of risk.

I don't understand this; can you elaborate?  I understand how "wash transactions" like paying yourself with Amazon Payments to meet spending thresholds can be considered non-kosher, but how does purchasing gift cards violate either the letter or the spirit of the terms of the reward offer?

chicagomeg

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2014, 09:30:20 PM »
Careful though. There was a 5% cashback AARP Chase card a while back. A lot of people found themselves blacklisted for life from Chase for churning spending. I think it's fine to buy a few hundred dollars to meet a spending requirement, but I wouldn't personally do thousands for the rewards, at least not on a Chase car. Then again, lots of people do via the Chase Ink 5% cashback at Office Supply stores, but know there is some degree of risk.

I don't understand this; can you elaborate?  I understand how "wash transactions" like paying yourself with Amazon Payments to meet spending thresholds can be considered non-kosher, but how does purchasing gift cards violate either the letter or the spirit of the terms of the reward offer?

*Shrug* I think it fell under the  general "We reserve the right to suspend your account at our discretion at any time" type of disclaimer on any credit card. Basically, they were losing too much money.

ETA: I'm pretty sure using Chase on Amazon Payments will result in a cash advance fee. It varies by card issuer though. Chase is really stringent on lots of things, other companies not as much.

StetsTerhune

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2014, 12:28:19 PM »
More under rewards than sign-on bonus, but I just saw and ad for the BOA "Better Balance Rewards" Card. Basically it gives a $25 a quarter reward for paying your bill on time every month. I just read the fine print and I think the only restriction is that $0 payments don't count. So I think you just have to use the card once every month, put it on auto-pay and you get $100 dollars a year. No annual fee, so it's free money.

kpd905

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2014, 02:02:45 PM »

ETA: I'm pretty sure using Chase on Amazon Payments will result in a cash advance fee. It varies by card issuer though. Chase is really stringent on lots of things, other companies not as much.

No, it won't.

sheepstache

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2014, 02:05:11 PM »
Re: BoA Better Balance Rewards

And actually you can get $120 a year if you have another bank account with them:
"If either the primary or joint applicant for this card has at least one checking, savings or retirement account with Bank of America N.A., a Cash Management Account®, Merrill Edge® or any other account with Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Incorporated or U.S. Trust, the card account will receive a customer bonus of $5 for each quarter you qualify, for a total of $30 per quarter."

You could do a BoA savings account for free with a minimum $300 balance.  Think of it as a 6.6% return on your $300?
It looks...it looks like you can just open a Merrill Lynch cash management account for $0 with no maintenance fees.  And I can't immediately find any info about its getting closed for low-balance or non-activity, though it's certainly possible it's in there.  Careful of the $49.50 transfer fee :)

One other thing to watch out for is that the payment has to be more than the minimum.  I think with some banks if your total is less than $25 or something, the minimum payment is the total.  So if you owe, like, $8, you just need to make sure you pay $8.01.

madage

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2014, 02:10:23 PM »

ETA: I'm pretty sure using Chase on Amazon Payments will result in a cash advance fee. It varies by card issuer though. Chase is really stringent on lots of things, other companies not as much.

No, it won't.

No cash advance fee last fall when I was using AP to meet the minimum spending requirement on my Chase Sapphire Preferred.

NCintheDMV

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2014, 02:13:10 PM »
If you have more of points card (I have the Citi Thank You Rewards card) I would say look at how many points getting a statement credit or cash cost you vs. getting a gift card.

For example with Citi I can get a $50 gift card with around 1,500 points but if I want the same amount or credit in cash it might cost me 2,500 points.  Sometime is more beneficial to get gift cards to places you are know you are going to use them at. 

i_am_the_slime

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2014, 02:21:14 PM »

For example with Citi I can get a $50 gift card with around 1,500 points but if I want the same amount or credit in cash it might cost me 2,500 points.  Sometime is more beneficial to get gift cards to places you are know you are going to use them at.

What kind of gift card?  As far as I'm aware, the $50 gift cards are 6,000 points and the $100 gift cards are 10,000 points (which equates to 1% rewards).

wtjbatman

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2014, 03:27:30 AM »

For example with Citi I can get a $50 gift card with around 1,500 points but if I want the same amount or credit in cash it might cost me 2,500 points.  Sometime is more beneficial to get gift cards to places you are know you are going to use them at.

What kind of gift card?  As far as I'm aware, the $50 gift cards are 6,000 points and the $100 gift cards are 10,000 points (which equates to 1% rewards).

He's gotta be way off. I just cashed in my Citi ThankYou points, and the best deals were $50 gift cards/5000 points or $100 gift cards/10,000 points. $50 for 1,500 points would have gotten me $1300 in gift cards for how much I cashed in! Instead I only got $350.

horsepoor

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2014, 08:04:11 AM »
I'd also like to know if there's a car that has that favorable of a rate on gift cards.

My BofA Visa occasionally has "sales" so the cards are fewer points, but it's like 2,500 points for a card that would usually be 3,000.

Discover does give about a 10% advantage for getting gift cards.  $45 in cash back is good for a $50 gift card, so I've started getting Lowe's cards instead of spending the cash back dollar for dollar at Amazon.

Shor

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #60 on: February 03, 2014, 11:26:08 AM »
Re: BoA Better Balance Rewards

And actually you can get $120 a year if you have another bank account with them:
"If either the primary or joint applicant for this card has at least one checking, savings or retirement account with Bank of America N.A., a Cash Management Account®, Merrill Edge® or any other account with Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Incorporated or U.S. Trust, the card account will receive a customer bonus of $5 for each quarter you qualify, for a total of $30 per quarter."

You could do a BoA savings account for free with a minimum $300 balance.  Think of it as a 6.6% return on your $300?
It looks...it looks like you can just open a Merrill Lynch cash management account for $0 with no maintenance fees.  And I can't immediately find any info about its getting closed for low-balance or non-activity, though it's certainly possible it's in there.  Careful of the $49.50 transfer fee :)

One other thing to watch out for is that the payment has to be more than the minimum.  I think with some banks if your total is less than $25 or something, the minimum payment is the total.  So if you owe, like, $8, you just need to make sure you pay $8.01.
Correct, and with this card, the $25 is the usual minimum.
I only got the card at the end of January, so it wasn't in time for the first quarter(?) January credit bills were already set on 1/20 so gotta wait another 2(?) months (April?) until the next quarter starts. They don't tell you how they divide the quarters up, not even in the fine print...

NCintheDMV

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2014, 07:15:26 PM »
Sorry those were not to be exact numbers I was just giving them as an example that cash/statement credit is not always the best option if you can get gift cards you will use.  I can get a $50 Panera card for 5,000 points which is approx. .01 per point while if you choose statement credit for $50 for 10,000 points which is approx.  .005 per point.



For example with Citi I can get a $50 gift card with around 1,500 points but if I want the same amount or credit in cash it might cost me 2,500 points.  Sometime is more beneficial to get gift cards to places you are know you are going to use them at.

What kind of gift card?  As far as I'm aware, the $50 gift cards are 6,000 points and the $100 gift cards are 10,000 points (which equates to 1% rewards).

He's gotta be way off. I just cashed in my Citi ThankYou points, and the best deals were $50 gift cards/5000 points or $100 gift cards/10,000 points. $50 for 1,500 points would have gotten me $1300 in gift cards for how much I cashed in! Instead I only got $350.

wtjbatman

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2014, 08:50:27 PM »
Sorry those were not to be exact numbers I was just giving them as an example that cash/statement credit is not always the best option if you can get gift cards you will use.  I can get a $50 Panera card for 5,000 points which is approx. .01 per point while if you choose statement credit for $50 for 10,000 points which is approx.  .005 per point.

I'm not a numbers guy (social science major here, probably one of about three on these forums), but even I know you need to be careful when throwing around claims about credit card bonuses. This stuff is important! ;)

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2014, 11:09:15 AM »
I've had the same Chase card for like 10 years and rarely ever "churned" in the past for bonus programs.

Recently got a mailer from Chase Freedom - Spend $500 get a $200 credit. I signed up, paid a $2K hospital bill, and essentially shaved 10% off the cost. Just got the reward today when the statement cycle ended. It feels good to game the system, even just a little.

chucklesmcgee

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2014, 04:23:31 PM »
Careful though. There was a 5% cashback AARP Chase card a while back. A lot of people found themselves blacklisted for life from Chase for churning spending. I think it's fine to buy a few hundred dollars to meet a spending requirement, but I wouldn't personally do thousands for the rewards, at least not on a Chase car. Then again, lots of people do via the Chase Ink 5% cashback at Office Supply stores, but know there is some degree of risk.

There is a sweet spot, but $3000 of spending isn't going to raise any churning flags. At worst you'll just get a call from the fraud department to verify it's actually you making the purchase. People who get shut down usually run tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands through a card in a month.

zachd

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2014, 12:14:48 PM »
Didn't want to start another thread about churning.. this seems like a good one to bump..

This is a good article with some 'rules' to follow I found helpful.

http://vosa.com/credit-card-churning-for-rewards/

But I have a few questions I don't have answers for:

1.  I signed up for AMEX Blue Preferred.  The spend is $1000 in 3 months which is no problem.  It has a 6% cash back on gas 3% on groceries.  Problem is, if you are going to churn through cards.. do you have to just close it and find another card to use?  Maybe I want to get some airline mileage but I might not can make the spend on the airline card if I'm paying for groceries and gas with the AMEX Blue card.  Which is OK.. I'm just curious do people hang on to one card for perks and then go through different other cards for miles or points? Or if you basically have to let go of the 'perk' card once you got the sign up bonus on it ($100 + Free amazon prime account in this case).

2.  How often do you end up opening and closing a card.. do you close as soon as you get the reward and then open another one?  I read somewhere about using 3 months as a time to wait to open a new one.  (I can alternate opening with spouse)

3.  How many do you end up having open at a time?  I don't know what closing one has on your credit score if any.  It might be better to just keep say 3 open at any given time, or maybe having 6 open is better (for your credit rating)

4. If you close a card.. is there a time limit for when you can apply for it again and get some reward or do you think they remember you for life?  I've had a southwest visa for many years.. it used to really rack up free flights fast but now it's not better than any other airline card.  I would probably close it and open something else.. it would be great if you could open it again in say a year and get some bonus out of it again.

Maybe there is a more dedicated forum for churning.. if someone wants to reccomend one please do.


chicagomeg

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2014, 12:48:57 PM »
Didn't want to start another thread about churning.. this seems like a good one to bump..

This is a good article with some 'rules' to follow I found helpful.

http://vosa.com/credit-card-churning-for-rewards/

But I have a few questions I don't have answers for:

1.  I signed up for AMEX Blue Preferred.  The spend is $1000 in 3 months which is no problem.  It has a 6% cash back on gas 3% on groceries.  Problem is, if you are going to churn through cards.. do you have to just close it and find another card to use?  Maybe I want to get some airline mileage but I might not can make the spend on the airline card if I'm paying for groceries and gas with the AMEX Blue card.  Which is OK.. I'm just curious do people hang on to one card for perks and then go through different other cards for miles or points? Or if you basically have to let go of the 'perk' card once you got the sign up bonus on it ($100 + Free amazon prime account in this case).

I started churning by getting a few cards that I use for my core spending which don't have annual fees. I use the Citi Forward, Chase Freedom, and PNC Cashbuilder whenever I'm not working on a signup bonus. Plus, my average age of accounts is always increasing by keeping these ones, which helps my credit score. The Amex Blue is a good one to hang on to for a lot people.

2.  How often do you end up opening and closing a card.. do you close as soon as you get the reward and then open another one?  I read somewhere about using 3 months as a time to wait to open a new one.  (I can alternate opening with spouse)

I pretty much open a new card anytime there is a worthwhile signup bonus ($400+) and I'm done with the last one. But, I don't bother with any of the tricks to artificially inflate my spending (known as manufactured spend, you can google that for details), so I never really have more than one at once. Lots of people do one big application spree and get 3-4 at once, then get the bonuses, repeat, but I just don't have the time and energy to devote to man. spending so I stick w/one at a time.

3.  How many do you end up having open at a time?  I don't know what closing one has on your credit score if any.  It might be better to just keep say 3 open at any given time, or maybe having 6 open is better (for your credit rating)

The biggest way this impacts your score, especially if you don't have a lot of credit history, is that it decreases your average age of accounts. I keep all the cards until just before the annual fee hits, then close them, except the 3 mentioned above.

4. If you close a card.. is there a time limit for when you can apply for it again and get some reward or do you think they remember you for life?  I've had a southwest visa for many years.. it used to really rack up free flights fast but now it's not better than any other airline card.  I would probably close it and open something else.. it would be great if you could open it again in say a year and get some bonus out of it again.

It varies A LOT by issuer, card, bank, etc. Often, when there is a new offer, you can read the thread on Fat Wallet Finance or Flyer Talk about the offer & find answers from others who have tried it already. Some cards have a Visa & MC version and a lot of times you can get the bonus on each one, for example. Other cards, you can just keep churning. I haven't run out of new cards to open yet, so I haven't tried that yet.

Maybe there is a more dedicated forum for churning.. if someone wants to reccomend one please do.

zachd

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2014, 01:20:43 PM »

Awesome, very helpful answers!

I'm ready to roll, I'll just leave my older cards open.  My credit score is about 720 and my wife's is probably 730 or 740.
Hopefully they will go up some from the massive amounts of debt we are paying down each month.

Another question..

What can you typically NOT pay with a credit card?

I'm thinking mortgage payments probably can't come off of a card :)
Although I'm sure somewhere, someone has figured out a way to achieve that through manufactured spending as you say.



madage

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2014, 01:47:30 PM »
I'm thinking mortgage payments probably can't come off of a card :)
Although I'm sure somewhere, someone has figured out a way to achieve that through manufactured spending as you say.

That's not very hard to serve up.

brooklynguy

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2014, 02:14:54 PM »
I'm thinking mortgage payments probably can't come off of a card :)
Although I'm sure somewhere, someone has figured out a way to achieve that through manufactured spending as you say.

That's not very hard to serve up.

Was this a veiled way of saying mortgage payments can somehow be made via credit card using Amex Serve cards?  If so, can you please elaborate for those of us (like me) not clever enough to figure out how?  If anyone has come up with a way to make mortgage payments by credit card, I would be all ears. 

soccerluvof4

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2014, 02:20:30 PM »
I am more confused than ever. So in layman's terms. For just cash back on pretty much everything what is the best card to start out with. I dont need airline miles!!! Just cash back. And guidelines i need to follow if I end up churning. Thanks for your patience. I have a card that basically doesnt do Jack for me right now.

madage

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2014, 02:24:07 PM »
I'm thinking mortgage payments probably can't come off of a card :)
Although I'm sure somewhere, someone has figured out a way to achieve that through manufactured spending as you say.

That's not very hard to serve up.

Was this a veiled way of saying mortgage payments can somehow be made via credit card using Amex Serve cards?  If so, can you please elaborate for those of us (like me) not clever enough to figure out how?  If anyone has come up with a way to make mortgage payments by credit card, I would be all ears. 

Serve has a bill pay function that allows you to pay just about person or business (so does Bluebird). Serve (unlike Bluebird) can be loaded fee-free with a credit card at CVS.

madage

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2014, 02:40:21 PM »
I am more confused than ever. So in layman's terms. For just cash back on pretty much everything what is the best card to start out with. I dont need airline miles!!! Just cash back. And guidelines i need to follow if I end up churning. Thanks for your patience. I have a card that basically doesnt do Jack for me right now.

To start, I recommend either the Fidelity Visa (1.5% cash back) or Fidelity Amex (2% cash back). They're not hard to find, and you just need to open a Fidelity Cash account. They might even be offering a bonus right now.

My guidelines:
1. Make sure I meet the spending requirement in time to get the bonus.
2. Any bonus that's not worth at least $200 isn't worth the hard inquiry on my credit report.
3. If I decide to apply for one card, I always find two or three others to apply for on the same day (minimize credit inquiries).
4. Never pay interest.

brooklynguy

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2014, 02:43:04 PM »
Serve has a bill pay function that allows you to pay just about person or business (so does Bluebird). Serve (unlike Bluebird) can be loaded fee-free with a credit card at CVS.

Wow, thanks!  I will have to look into that.  One concern that immediately jumps to mind is the risk that the funding credit card company could look at the substance over the form of the transaction and charge a cash advance fee, but I will definitely research this.  Thanks again...these forums keep proving to be a limitless fountain of knowledge!

zachd

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2014, 03:55:39 PM »
I am more confused than ever. So in layman's terms. For just cash back on pretty much everything what is the best card to start out with. I dont need airline miles!!! Just cash back. And guidelines i need to follow if I end up churning. Thanks for your patience. I have a card that basically doesnt do Jack for me right now.

I started off with amex blue card preferred. This was in MMM list on the home page.  It's $100 sign up bonus, 6% back on groceries, 3% gas, 1% other things.  You have to spend 1K in 3 months.
6% on groceries is pretty good + the sign up.  You also get a free year of amazon prime, don't really order much from there these days so not sure it will be much benefit.

In a month or so I'll go for a second one with a big sign up bonus or miles. There are some web pages that are mentioned in this thread that should mention the current best card deals.

Yes, if that Serve card somehow can be used to pay mortgage that would be good to know. 
I haven't googled it yet, so maybe it's not that hard to do but I have some other low hanging fruit I'll probably deal with before I try and get my mortgage to be paid on a CC just for rewards.


madage

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2014, 07:43:12 PM »

Yes, if that Serve card somehow can be used to pay mortgage that would be good to know. 
I haven't googled it yet, so maybe it's not that hard to do but I have some other low hanging fruit I'll probably deal with before I try and get my mortgage to be paid on a CC just for rewards.

Don't discount the benefit of the free float (usually at least 30 days) on your mortgage payment if paid through Serve funded with a credit card.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2014, 07:40:02 AM »
Thanks Madage and Zachd,

The grocery savings and fuel do me know good. I have a discount card through sams club and Aldi's only takes cash or debit card and I am happy with my savings.

Gas I dont pay for the company does.

So i am looking for a credit card cash back on all purchases. I will look into the Fidelity.

Thanks again!

Fireman

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #77 on: February 27, 2014, 08:20:17 AM »
Fidelity is nice with the 2% but there is a catch:  instead of being able to use the money, it goes into a Fidelity investment account.  I *would use this card to pay my rent each month since the 2% CB offsets the fee to use the credit card.  Unfortunately, my complex takes everything but American Express. 

soccerluvof4

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2014, 08:33:33 AM »
Fidelity is nice with the 2% but there is a catch:  instead of being able to use the money, it goes into a Fidelity investment account.  I *would use this card to pay my rent each month since the 2% CB offsets the fee to use the credit card.  Unfortunately, my complex takes everything but American Express.

yea I dont want that then. Is there one that you might suggest?

madage

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #79 on: February 27, 2014, 08:51:19 AM »
Fidelity is nice with the 2% but there is a catch:  instead of being able to use the money, it goes into a Fidelity investment account.  I *would use this card to pay my rent each month since the 2% CB offsets the fee to use the credit card.  Unfortunately, my complex takes everything but American Express.

yea I dont want that then. Is there one that you might suggest?

You want the Fidelity Cash account. It's basically a fee-free checking account. It has online ACH transfers, free checks, etc. I keep mine open even though I no longer have a Fidelity credit card.

Fireman

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #80 on: February 27, 2014, 09:32:54 AM »
Fidelity is nice with the 2% but there is a catch:  instead of being able to use the money, it goes into a Fidelity investment account.  I *would use this card to pay my rent each month since the 2% CB offsets the fee to use the credit card.  Unfortunately, my complex takes everything but American Express.

yea I dont want that then. Is there one that you might suggest?

If you want a straight cash rewards card with no categories then i'd recommend the Capital One Quicksilver.  If you're interested in rotating categories with cash back on everything else then the Discover IT and Chase Freedom are good bets.  If you want a card that has categories that don't change then go with American Express Blue Cash or Blue Cash Preferred

If you decide to get the Discover IT card, i'd recommend checking out this thread as it includes a link for a sign up bonus.

You can also check out Nerd Wallet for their recommendations and current offers.

plantingourpennies

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2014, 01:47:55 PM »

Which AA card is this?  There are 50k offers on Flyertalk.  I haven't heard of one with the 10k bonus though.

Citi American Airlines Mastercard.  The 50k would be better; I didn't actually search around much for that one, maybe I should have.


There are lots of levels of the Citi Aadvantage MasterCard.  We just did 2 of them. 
Gold MasterCard - had special offer (mailer code) for 30K miles after spending $1K in 3 mos. 
Platinum MasterCard - normal offer for 50K miles after spending $3K in 3 mos.

Both have additional bonuses (I think double the initial bonus) if you hit much larger spending levels within 12 mos.  Those didn't seem worth it to us.

The various levels of Citi Aadvantage cards also have different levels of benefits in the Reduced Mileage program if that matters to you.

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2014, 01:50:52 PM »
Fidelity is nice with the 2% but there is a catch:  instead of being able to use the money, it goes into a Fidelity investment account.  I *would use this card to pay my rent each month since the 2% CB offsets the fee to use the credit card.  Unfortunately, my complex takes everything but American Express.

yea I dont want that then. Is there one that you might suggest?


Good Links thanks!
If you want a straight cash rewards card with no categories then i'd recommend the Capital One Quicksilver.  If you're interested in rotating categories with cash back on everything else then the Discover IT and Chase Freedom are good bets.  If you want a card that has categories that don't change then go with American Express Blue Cash or Blue Cash Preferred

If you decide to get the Discover IT card, i'd recommend checking out this thread as it includes a link for a sign up bonus.

You can also check out Nerd Wallet for their recommendations and current offers.

fiveoh

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2014, 12:49:10 PM »
Any offers worth over $400 right now that you know about and want to share? :)

Didn't want to start another thread about churning.. this seems like a good one to bump..

This is a good article with some 'rules' to follow I found helpful.

http://vosa.com/credit-card-churning-for-rewards/

But I have a few questions I don't have answers for:

1.  I signed up for AMEX Blue Preferred.  The spend is $1000 in 3 months which is no problem.  It has a 6% cash back on gas 3% on groceries.  Problem is, if you are going to churn through cards.. do you have to just close it and find another card to use?  Maybe I want to get some airline mileage but I might not can make the spend on the airline card if I'm paying for groceries and gas with the AMEX Blue card.  Which is OK.. I'm just curious do people hang on to one card for perks and then go through different other cards for miles or points? Or if you basically have to let go of the 'perk' card once you got the sign up bonus on it ($100 + Free amazon prime account in this case).

I started churning by getting a few cards that I use for my core spending which don't have annual fees. I use the Citi Forward, Chase Freedom, and PNC Cashbuilder whenever I'm not working on a signup bonus. Plus, my average age of accounts is always increasing by keeping these ones, which helps my credit score. The Amex Blue is a good one to hang on to for a lot people.

2.  How often do you end up opening and closing a card.. do you close as soon as you get the reward and then open another one?  I read somewhere about using 3 months as a time to wait to open a new one.  (I can alternate opening with spouse)

I pretty much open a new card anytime there is a worthwhile signup bonus ($400+) and I'm done with the last one. But, I don't bother with any of the tricks to artificially inflate my spending (known as manufactured spend, you can google that for details), so I never really have more than one at once. Lots of people do one big application spree and get 3-4 at once, then get the bonuses, repeat, but I just don't have the time and energy to devote to man. spending so I stick w/one at a time.

3.  How many do you end up having open at a time?  I don't know what closing one has on your credit score if any.  It might be better to just keep say 3 open at any given time, or maybe having 6 open is better (for your credit rating)

The biggest way this impacts your score, especially if you don't have a lot of credit history, is that it decreases your average age of accounts. I keep all the cards until just before the annual fee hits, then close them, except the 3 mentioned above.

4. If you close a card.. is there a time limit for when you can apply for it again and get some reward or do you think they remember you for life?  I've had a southwest visa for many years.. it used to really rack up free flights fast but now it's not better than any other airline card.  I would probably close it and open something else.. it would be great if you could open it again in say a year and get some bonus out of it again.

It varies A LOT by issuer, card, bank, etc. Often, when there is a new offer, you can read the thread on Fat Wallet Finance or Flyer Talk about the offer & find answers from others who have tried it already. Some cards have a Visa & MC version and a lot of times you can get the bonus on each one, for example. Other cards, you can just keep churning. I haven't run out of new cards to open yet, so I haven't tried that yet.

Maybe there is a more dedicated forum for churning.. if someone wants to reccomend one please do.

zachd

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2014, 02:01:35 PM »

Actually, I haven't personally started looking for a second card.  I made a $1000 payment on the amex blue preferred and I want to make sure I get my $100 from them and my amazon prime account before I move on to open another card. 

This churning obviously takes a lot of attention to detail.  It's nice that CC web pages are easier to use now than they were 5 or so years ago.  Setting up autopay and what not is easier now than before.  Still, I'm planning to make a spreadsheet just to make sure I know what cards I have open and what their status is.

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2014, 02:33:03 PM »

Actually, I haven't personally started looking for a second card.  I made a $1000 payment on the amex blue preferred and I want to make sure I get my $100 from them and my amazon prime account before I move on to open another card. 

This churning obviously takes a lot of attention to detail.  It's nice that CC web pages are easier to use now than they were 5 or so years ago.  Setting up autopay and what not is easier now than before.  Still, I'm planning to make a spreadsheet just to make sure I know what cards I have open and what their status is.

The idea of a spreadsheet or something similar with a couple of reminders/alerts on my iPhone is what I need to do. It was easy until a few months ago with just one card to pay, but I just got five credit/travel cards (TD Bank Aeroplan, CIBC Aventura, AMEX Aeroplan, CIBC Aerogold, BMO whatever) in the past three months (over 70,000 travel miles altogether and a bunch of other travel rewards which for me is equivalent to 5 return tickets worth $550 a piece that I must pay to go to work every month), and I am starting to lose track of my payment dates, etc. So far I have not missed any deadlines but I've had a few panic moments when I couldn't remember whether I paid one of the bills on time.

brooklynguy

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2014, 02:41:10 PM »
Mint.com can be an invaluable resource for keeping track of multiple credit cards.

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2014, 02:42:50 PM »
Fidelity is nice with the 2% but there is a catch:  instead of being able to use the money, it goes into a Fidelity investment account.  I *would use this card to pay my rent each month since the 2% CB offsets the fee to use the credit card.  Unfortunately, my complex takes everything but American Express.

yea I dont want that then. Is there one that you might suggest?

Capital One No hassle rewards 1.5% cash back on everything as a statement credit whenever you want

Barclaycard World Arrival MasterCard - effectively 2.222% cash back on everything*. The * is that you can only redeem for the best rate when you have travel purchases (hotel, car rental, plane tickets). If you never have travel purchases the rate is 1%.

sheepstache

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2014, 02:53:20 PM »
When these cards offer a higher rewards percentage if you spend it on travel, how does that work?  Do you have to buy through their site and if so do you have the same vendor options?  Are airways like Jetblue and Southwest represented?  How about budget hotels and car rentals?  And are the prices the same as you would get through orbtiz/hotwire, etc.?  I often assume the greater redemption rate won't be worth the higher price.

adesertsky

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2014, 03:23:44 PM »
The Barclaycard is a statement credit for your travel so you buy your travel with the card and apply the credit to it.  When you charge things to credit cards, there is an indicator of the industry or type of charge.  So, air/cars/hotels will all indicate to the card company that they are travel purchases.  With this type of card, you can use any airline, hotel, or car service (that I'm aware of).  They *do* offer a service to book directly through them, so you can compare rates from what you would book to what they are offering but it is not required.

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2014, 03:39:26 PM »
Fidelity is nice with the 2% but there is a catch:  instead of being able to use the money, it goes into a Fidelity investment account.  I *would use this card to pay my rent each month since the 2% CB offsets the fee to use the credit card.  Unfortunately, my complex takes everything but American Express.

But you can just withdraw the money, right?

horsepoor

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #91 on: February 28, 2014, 05:25:31 PM »
When these cards offer a higher rewards percentage if you spend it on travel, how does that work?  Do you have to buy through their site and if so do you have the same vendor options?  Are airways like Jetblue and Southwest represented?  How about budget hotels and car rentals?  And are the prices the same as you would get through orbtiz/hotwire, etc.?  I often assume the greater redemption rate won't be worth the higher price.

I haven't used the rewards yet, but with the AmEx Blue Sky I recently acquired, you use the card for any travel purchase (flight, hotel, rental car), and then specify which of those travel purchases on your statement you want to use the rewards points to pay for, so it seems pretty flexible.

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2014, 10:13:00 PM »
Fidelity is nice with the 2% but there is a catch:  instead of being able to use the money, it goes into a Fidelity investment account.  I *would use this card to pay my rent each month since the 2% CB offsets the fee to use the credit card.  Unfortunately, my complex takes everything but American Express.

But you can just withdraw the money, right?

Yep.

It's by far my favorite card for all around, general use. Sure some cards are better in specific categories or for specific time frames (ex: "5% cashback on restaurants this quarter"), but a 2% cashback on everything is pretty rad. I got my girlfriend a card that she uses so I get the cashback, and she just reimburses me every month. And although it gets automatically deposited to my Fidelity account, I can withdraw the money with no penalty. Just takes a couple days.

Hugh H

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2014, 09:02:11 PM »
Mustachians, I recently got two rewards cards (Hyatt Visa since I stay often here for work; bonus points and free night per year) and the American Express Blue Cash everyday card (I'll use it to pay my tax bill, and will pay this off in a period of 15 months due to 0% APR during that time).

This has me looking at my only other active credit card (American Express Delta Skymiles), and I realize it's utter crap. 1 mile per dollar (about 1%), and a $95 dollar annual fee. The only other good point is the first bag checked free (about $50), but I've been a Diamond member forever so it doesn't matter anyway.

I want to close this card, and transfer the credit line to the Blue Cash one (I already checked and I can do it) so I don't lose on overall credit utilization. The problem, however, is that this is my second longest card time-wise in my credit history. The rest of my credit history is pretty new.

Do you think the hit on my credit score will be felt given the reduction in overall account age? Should I just suck it up and keep paying the $95? Any other advantages to leaving it open that I'm not seeing?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:04:04 PM by Hugh H »

madage

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2014, 08:02:27 AM »
The problem, however, is that this is my second longest card time-wise in my credit history. The rest of my credit history is pretty new.

This may not be a problem. Check the "Member Since" date on your BCE card. American Express back-dates new card accounts to your first card account with them. Read more here.

Cwadda

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2014, 09:28:42 AM »
I have the Bank of America Cash Rewards card. It offers $100 if you spend $500 within the first three months. It gives 3% on gas, 2% on groceries, and 1% on everything else. No annual fees.  You also receive an additional 10% on the rewards (3.3%, 2.2%, 1.1%) if you have them go into a Bank of America account.

This card works for me because I am a college student and I don't spend enough to reach some of the bigger reward companies.

Hugh H

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2014, 04:07:16 PM »
The problem, however, is that this is my second longest card time-wise in my credit history. The rest of my credit history is pretty new.

This may not be a problem. Check the "Member Since" date on your BCE card. American Express back-dates new card accounts to your first card account with them. Read more here.

Perfect, just what I needed to know.

Hugh H

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2014, 07:37:12 PM »
Any ideas for meeting the minimum required spending in order to reach the bonus target on new cards? I have to spend $3,000 in 3 months, that's way too much.

I was going to pay the rent, but the $45 fee to pay with a credit card is ridiculous. What about purchasing prepaid debit cards say, at Walmart? They don't charge you taxes for this, right?

nawhite

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2014, 09:23:42 PM »
Any ideas for meeting the minimum required spending in order to reach the bonus target on new cards? I have to spend $3,000 in 3 months, that's way too much.

I was going to pay the rent, but the $45 fee to pay with a credit card is ridiculous. What about purchasing prepaid debit cards say, at Walmart? They don't charge you taxes for this, right?

What you should google is "manufactured spend." There is a whole forum dedicated to this topic here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending-719/

Quick summary though:
1. You can do up to $1000/month for free with Amazon Payments. Transfer $1000 to your spouse, then have them pay your bill.
2. Check out Loyal3. You can buy up to $10,000/month in stocks with a credit card without fees. Then sell the shares the next day and pay your bill
3. You can go the prepaid debit card route too but there are often fees if you don't pay attention, look into the Vanilla prepaid cards from Visa and Serve by American Express for some of the lower fee options.

Fireman

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Re: Credit Cards Rewards and Sign on Bonuses (Churning)
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2014, 12:46:22 PM »
NFCU is offering 30,000 miles when you open a Flagship Rewards card and spend $3,000 in 90 days.  There's a $45 annual fee but it's waived the first year.