Covid vaccine rollout in the US - who do you know that is getting the vaccine?

[PDXTabs]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

I don't know how offensive it is, but it's completely wrong. Russia might be a developed country, but it isn't elite. It is middle income at best. China and India also have their own domestically developed vaccines. They certainly aren't developed or high income. India isn't even middle income.

[Abe]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Regarding not being dependent on your government,  I whole heartily agree.  That goes for everyone from every country.

Terminology aside - though no country is obligated to help other countries, we have a clear self-interest in helping other countries avoid major outbreaks. Both the delta variant and prior aggressive variants originated in countries you would I guess consider "non-elite". Look where that's landed us elites now.

Also agree with @PDXTabs ' points about vaccine origins (though India hasn't developed a separate vaccine, it is just mass-producing the non-mRNA vaccines as fast as humanly possible).

[Dollar Slice]

Also agree with @PDXTabs ' points about vaccine origins (though India hasn't developed a separate vaccine, it is just mass-producing the non-mRNA vaccines as fast as humanly possible).

That's not true, is it? India developed Covaxin. And they just got emergency authorization for that new DNA vaccine, ZyCoV-D, this week, which was also developed in India.

[wageslave23]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

I don't know how offensive it is, but it's completely wrong. Russia might be a developed country, but it isn't elite. It is middle income at best. China and India also have their own domestically developed vaccines. They certainly aren't developed or high income. India isn't even middle income.

I was just using the poster that I was responding to's terminology.  That they are outraged that the "elites" are donating Johnson and Johnson vaccine instead of Moderna or Pfizer's.  Rubbed me the wrong way as very entitled and ungrateful.  I do not consider any country to be "elite".  The US has devoted years and billions upon billions of dollars to this research. 

[Abe]

Also agree with @PDXTabs ' points about vaccine origins (though India hasn't developed a separate vaccine, it is just mass-producing the non-mRNA vaccines as fast as humanly possible).

That's not true, is it? India developed Covaxin. And they just got emergency authorization for that new DNA vaccine, ZyCoV-D, this week, which was also developed in India.

You’re right, forgot about those two. Unfortunately they aren’t very effective compared to the mRNA ones (67% or so). Better than no vaccine! The advantage is they are very cheap to produce. Disadvantage is low efficacy (even if 100% of people in an area were vaccinated with these, it wouldn’t halt spread- especially with the more contagious variants). It’s probably better to focus on getting Novovax out (fridge-stable and similar efficacy to the mRNA ones).

[dougules]

Also agree with @PDXTabs ' points about vaccine origins (though India hasn't developed a separate vaccine, it is just mass-producing the non-mRNA vaccines as fast as humanly possible).

That's not true, is it? India developed Covaxin. And they just got emergency authorization for that new DNA vaccine, ZyCoV-D, this week, which was also developed in India.

You’re right, forgot about those two. Unfortunately they aren’t very effective compared to the mRNA ones (67% or so). Better than no vaccine! The advantage is they are very cheap to produce. Disadvantage is low efficacy (even if 100% of people in an area were vaccinated with these, it wouldn’t halt spread- especially with the more contagious variants). It’s probably better to focus on getting Novovax out (fridge-stable and similar efficacy to the mRNA ones).

Why hasn't Novovax's vaccine been approved yet?   It just kind of fell off the radar.

[Dollar Slice]

Why hasn't Novovax's vaccine been approved yet?   It just kind of fell off the radar.

They've had some manufacturing troubles - I've seen several articles about it in the last few months. I suspect they are holding off on the final authorization until they are ready to actually crank out the doses. Not much point in touting this great new vaccine that might have a special appeal to hesitant folks and then say "but it won't be here for maybe three to six months, so..."

Part of the reason mRNA vaccines were being researched for so long as a sort of vaccine holy grail is that they're so much faster and simpler to produce (with our current level of technology) than older-style vaccines like Novavax or the annual flu shot.

[fi35er]

As someone living in a country that is not wealthy but still is an absolute mind fuck because of the unfathomable inequalities and gross wealth gap. I think last stat is that our gini co-efficent is the largest in the world. This thread or any on Covid 19 is just so frustrating. I am from South Africa.

Vaccine registration for my age cohort (18-34) was only approved on Thursday this week. To speed things up walk in registrations were also approved so essentially I was only eligible to get vaccinated on Friday. I only found out yesterday because I happened to catch it on the news. So I will go and vaccinate on Monday as a walk in.

It is also so bizarre and frankly frightening that countries such as mine are being given the J&J vaccine from wealthy countries as donations when they themselves are no longer giving it to their citizens.

And booster shots/third shots when people like me haven't even gotten a first shot as well as many in countries probably in a worse  state than South Africa.

Yeah this pandemic was a serious wake up call for me about the stark realities and truths about the world we live in. Poor and middle income countries always end up bearing the brunt for the fuck ups of the elites.

No energy to hate on those who don't want vaccination as SA has plenty of those as well.

The only good to come out of all this is a confirmation to really drill down on mustachian principles. And then in terms of South Africa, to become as independent of the government as much as possible. But that is our own internal political situation that drives this for me.

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Regarding not being dependent on your government,  I whole heartily agree.  That goes for everyone from every country.

Ah there it is as expected, we should be grateful to these countries, that is, the West, that just brings misery wherever they so called benevolence goes. Look at that the shambles that Afghanistan is in thanks to one of these benevolent countries.

Yes I wish this dependence on Western countries would end but it's a tad hard when it's a systematic issue. That's a topic for off topic though.

And please rich countries started hoarding vaccines as expected. Did you really think poor and midle income would get first choice. Please, this happens all the time.

J&J last I heard had complications with it. Or has thas changed? So yes it seems a little twisted to give something you know full well is not 100% Rather destroy it and say you don't have anything. But don't bullshit me and say that a donation like that is from a place of good. Nowhere did I say want Pfizer or moderna. In fact it's a pity that the vaccine from India isn't ready. I'd much prefer that.

Anyooo if this is going to turn into I must be grateful for developed countries let me see myself out of this thread. I am a long time lurker and if I'm going to participate more seems like I'll have to keep a lid on it in certain areas.

[fi35er]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

Perhaps some of my terminology is off but thank you for your understanding. Though offensive, I no longer get offended, I just let it slide off when I'm told to be grateful to these developed countries

[fi35er]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

I don't know how offensive it is, but it's completely wrong. Russia might be a developed country, but it isn't elite. It is middle income at best. China and India also have their own domestically developed vaccines. They certainly aren't developed or high income. India isn't even middle income.

I was just using the poster that I was responding to's terminology.  That they are outraged that the "elites" are donating Johnson and Johnson vaccine instead of Moderna or Pfizer's.  Rubbed me the wrong way as very entitled and ungrateful.  I do not consider any country to be "elite".  The US has devoted years and billions upon billions of dollars to this research.

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. I said none of that in my op.

Let me give you context. The donation was given at the exact time it was on hold in the US due to safety concerns. Nobody felt entitled to anything else. All that was asked is why are you accepting something that has safety concerns? As expected those questions went unanswered. So no in that context I consider it downright dodgy to give it to other countries.

[BussoV6]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

I don't know how offensive it is, but it's completely wrong. Russia might be a developed country, but it isn't elite. It is middle income at best. China and India also have their own domestically developed vaccines. They certainly aren't developed or high income. India isn't even middle income.

I was just using the poster that I was responding to's terminology.  That they are outraged that the "elites" are donating Johnson and Johnson vaccine instead of Moderna or Pfizer's.  Rubbed me the wrong way as very entitled and ungrateful.  I do not consider any country to be "elite".  The US has devoted years and billions upon billions of dollars to this research.

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. I said none of that in my op.

Let me give you context. The donation was given at the exact time it was on hold in the US due to safety concerns. Nobody felt entitled to anything else. All that was asked is why are you accepting something that has safety concerns? As expected those questions went unanswered. So no in that context I consider it downright dodgy to give it to other countries.

You seem to forget that South Africa itself "donated" a few million Astra Zeneca shots to the African Union when a few adverse reaction cases were reported in Europe.

Also, the J&J shots that were donated to South Africa were fine. It was only certain batches that were off spec due to a problem with one of the raw materials.

However, I do think that vaccine inequality does not help anyone, developed countries or us 3rd world citizens.

[Fomerly known as something]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

I don't know how offensive it is, but it's completely wrong. Russia might be a developed country, but it isn't elite. It is middle income at best. China and India also have their own domestically developed vaccines. They certainly aren't developed or high income. India isn't even middle income.

I was just using the poster that I was responding to's terminology.  That they are outraged that the "elites" are donating Johnson and Johnson vaccine instead of Moderna or Pfizer's.  Rubbed me the wrong way as very entitled and ungrateful.  I do not consider any country to be "elite".  The US has devoted years and billions upon billions of dollars to this research.

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. I said none of that in my op.

Let me give you context. The donation was given at the exact time it was on hold in the US due to safety concerns. Nobody felt entitled to anything else. All that was asked is why are you accepting something that has safety concerns? As expected those questions went unanswered. So no in that context I consider it downright dodgy to give it to other countries.

You seem to forget that South Africa itself "donated" a few million Astra Zeneca shots to the African Union when a few adverse reaction cases were reported in Europe.

Also, the J&J shots that were donated to South Africa were fine. It was only certain batches that were off spec due to a problem with one of the raw materials.

However, I do think that vaccine inequality does not help anyone, developed countries or us 3rd world citizens.

As someone who had two US friends in the J&J trail, it’s still a good vaccine.  Yes there can be some side effects more so than the others but it’s still a good vaccine.

[BussoV6]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

I don't know how offensive it is, but it's completely wrong. Russia might be a developed country, but it isn't elite. It is middle income at best. China and India also have their own domestically developed vaccines. They certainly aren't developed or high income. India isn't even middle income.

I was just using the poster that I was responding to's terminology.  That they are outraged that the "elites" are donating Johnson and Johnson vaccine instead of Moderna or Pfizer's.  Rubbed me the wrong way as very entitled and ungrateful.  I do not consider any country to be "elite".  The US has devoted years and billions upon billions of dollars to this research.

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. I said none of that in my op.

Let me give you context. The donation was given at the exact time it was on hold in the US due to safety concerns. Nobody felt entitled to anything else. All that was asked is why are you accepting something that has safety concerns? As expected those questions went unanswered. So no in that context I consider it downright dodgy to give it to other countries.

You seem to forget that South Africa itself "donated" a few million Astra Zeneca shots to the African Union when a few adverse reaction cases were reported in Europe.

Also, the J&J shots that were donated to South Africa were fine. It was only certain batches that were off spec due to a problem with one of the raw materials.

However, I do think that vaccine inequality does not help anyone, developed countries or us 3rd world citizens.

As someone who had two US friends in the J&J trail, it’s still a good vaccine.  Yes there can be some side effects more so than the others but it’s still a good vaccine.

Agreed. I'm fully Pfizered up now, but if I wasn't, I'd definitely take the J7J vaccine.

[alsoknownasDean]

I'd prefer Pfizer, but they're only opening it up to people aged 16-39 from next week here.

I've got a vaccine appointment tomorrow for AstraZeneca because it's easier to get (although I would need to provide special consent for it), and any protection is better than none. Given demand and limited Pfizer supply it'll probably be well into September or even October before I could get a Pfizer jab.

Supply of vaccines other than AZ (locally made) here has been a complete mess.

[slappy]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

I don't know how offensive it is, but it's completely wrong. Russia might be a developed country, but it isn't elite. It is middle income at best. China and India also have their own domestically developed vaccines. They certainly aren't developed or high income. India isn't even middle income.

I was just using the poster that I was responding to's terminology.  That they are outraged that the "elites" are donating Johnson and Johnson vaccine instead of Moderna or Pfizer's.  Rubbed me the wrong way as very entitled and ungrateful.  I do not consider any country to be "elite".  The US has devoted years and billions upon billions of dollars to this research.

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. I said none of that in my op.

Let me give you context. The donation was given at the exact time it was on hold in the US due to safety concerns. Nobody felt entitled to anything else. All that was asked is why are you accepting something that has safety concerns? As expected those questions went unanswered. So no in that context I consider it downright dodgy to give it to other countries.

You seem to forget that South Africa itself "donated" a few million Astra Zeneca shots to the African Union when a few adverse reaction cases were reported in Europe.

Also, the J&J shots that were donated to South Africa were fine. It was only certain batches that were off spec due to a problem with one of the raw materials.

However, I do think that vaccine inequality does not help anyone, developed countries or us 3rd world citizens.

As someone who had two US friends in the J&J trail, it’s still a good vaccine.  Yes there can be some side effects more so than the others but it’s still a good vaccine.

Agreed. I'm fully Pfizered up now, but if I wasn't, I'd definitely take the J7J vaccine.

My husband got the JNJ vaccine yesterday.

[Trifle]

How about poor and middle income countries are rescued by the elite countries.  There would be no vaccines period if it wasn't for the developed countries. No country is obligated to do anything for another country.  You should be grateful for any handouts.

Elite??? Grateful??? Handouts???  Do you have no idea how fucked up the treatment by your so-called "elite" countries of the rest of the world has been and still is?  That is one of the most offensive paragraphs I've read in a long time.

I don't know how offensive it is, but it's completely wrong. Russia might be a developed country, but it isn't elite. It is middle income at best. China and India also have their own domestically developed vaccines. They certainly aren't developed or high income. India isn't even middle income.

I was just using the poster that I was responding to's terminology.  That they are outraged that the "elites" are donating Johnson and Johnson vaccine instead of Moderna or Pfizer's.  Rubbed me the wrong way as very entitled and ungrateful.  I do not consider any country to be "elite".  The US has devoted years and billions upon billions of dollars to this research.

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. I said none of that in my op.

Let me give you context. The donation was given at the exact time it was on hold in the US due to safety concerns. Nobody felt entitled to anything else. All that was asked is why are you accepting something that has safety concerns? As expected those questions went unanswered. So no in that context I consider it downright dodgy to give it to other countries.

You seem to forget that South Africa itself "donated" a few million Astra Zeneca shots to the African Union when a few adverse reaction cases were reported in Europe.

Also, the J&J shots that were donated to South Africa were fine. It was only certain batches that were off spec due to a problem with one of the raw materials.

However, I do think that vaccine inequality does not help anyone, developed countries or us 3rd world citizens.

As someone who had two US friends in the J&J trail, it’s still a good vaccine.  Yes there can be some side effects more so than the others but it’s still a good vaccine.

Completely agree.  I would have taken J&J without hesitation if that had been offered to me. 

[PDXTabs]

That's not true, is it? India developed Covaxin. And they just got emergency authorization for that new DNA vaccine, ZyCoV-D, this week, which was also developed in India.

You’re right, forgot about those two. Unfortunately they aren’t very effective compared to the mRNA ones (67% or so). Better than no vaccine! The advantage is they are very cheap to produce. Disadvantage is low efficacy (even if 100% of people in an area were vaccinated with these, it wouldn’t halt spread- especially with the more contagious variants). It’s probably better to focus on getting Novovax out (fridge-stable and similar efficacy to the mRNA ones).

I think that Covaxin is 77.8% against symptomatic COVID-19 infections and 93.4% against severe COVID-19 disease. But I could be wrong.

[HPstache]

Sounds like Pfizer is now fully approved by the FDA.  I assume all the people who were waiting for that will now be flooding the vaccine clinics?  Anyone? Anyone?  **crickets**

[Abe]

That's not true, is it? India developed Covaxin. And they just got emergency authorization for that new DNA vaccine, ZyCoV-D, this week, which was also developed in India.

You’re right, forgot about those two. Unfortunately they aren’t very effective compared to the mRNA ones (67% or so). Better than no vaccine! The advantage is they are very cheap to produce. Disadvantage is low efficacy (even if 100% of people in an area were vaccinated with these, it wouldn’t halt spread- especially with the more contagious variants). It’s probably better to focus on getting Novovax out (fridge-stable and similar efficacy to the mRNA ones).

I think that Covaxin is 77.8% against symptomatic COVID-19 infections and 93.4% against severe COVID-19 disease. But I could be wrong.

That was pre-delta, unfortunately.

[frugalnacho]

Sounds like Pfizer is now fully approved by the FDA.  I assume all the people who were waiting for that will now be flooding the vaccine clinics?  Anyone? Anyone?  **crickets**

The FDA approving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine is safe, it means the FDA is part of the deep state.

[Taran Wanderer]

We’ve had a couple of high profile deaths in the last few days. I’ve had two people tell me today that they now plan to get vaccinated, and I heard of two more that will get vaccinated partly because of information I shared.

[sui generis]

We’ve had a couple of high profile deaths in the last few days. I’ve had two people tell me today that they now plan to get vaccinated, and I heard of two more that will get vaccinated partly because of information I shared.

Nicely done!

[Dollar Slice]

We’ve had a couple of high profile deaths in the last few days. I’ve had two people tell me today that they now plan to get vaccinated, and I heard of two more that will get vaccinated partly because of information I shared.

That's awesome, great job! You never know what kind of impact that might have - you could have saved a life, or more than one. Every person who gets vaccinated isn't just protecting themselves, but they could be a critical break in a long chain of infections.

I just found out my friend's dad died of COVID. It must be so hard losing a family member this many months after a vaccine was easily available to them.

[OtherJen]

Sounds like Pfizer is now fully approved by the FDA.  I assume all the people who were waiting for that will now be flooding the vaccine clinics?  Anyone? Anyone?  **crickets**

The FDA approving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine is safe, it means the FDA is part of the deep state.

Ah, I see you've also been reading the comments on NPR's Facebook posts. I despair for our country. Decades of anti-science brainwashing have led a large segment of the population to prefer a veterinary dewormer (ivermectin, NOT antiviral) over safe, high-tech vaccine technology backed by years of research and fully FDA-approved, with safety outcomes MUCH better than those of the virus it protects against.

[slappy]

Sounds like Pfizer is now fully approved by the FDA.  I assume all the people who were waiting for that will now be flooding the vaccine clinics?  Anyone? Anyone?  **crickets**

The FDA approving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine is safe, it means the FDA is part of the deep state.

Ah, I see you've also been reading the comments on NPR's Facebook posts. I despair for our country. Decades of anti-science brainwashing have led a large segment of the population to prefer a veterinary dewormer (ivermectin, NOT antiviral) over safe, high-tech vaccine technology backed by years of research and fully FDA-approved, with safety outcomes MUCH better than those of the virus it protects against.

Maybe frugalnacho was being sarcastic?

[OtherJen]

Sounds like Pfizer is now fully approved by the FDA.  I assume all the people who were waiting for that will now be flooding the vaccine clinics?  Anyone? Anyone?  **crickets**

The FDA approving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine is safe, it means the FDA is part of the deep state.

Ah, I see you've also been reading the comments on NPR's Facebook posts. I despair for our country. Decades of anti-science brainwashing have led a large segment of the population to prefer a veterinary dewormer (ivermectin, NOT antiviral) over safe, high-tech vaccine technology backed by years of research and fully FDA-approved, with safety outcomes MUCH better than those of the virus it protects against.

Maybe frugalnacho was being sarcastic?

He isn’t. Neither am I, unfortunately. The “FDA is deep state” posts started popping up as soon as the news broke yesterday morning.

[NorthernIkigai]

Sounds like Pfizer is now fully approved by the FDA.  I assume all the people who were waiting for that will now be flooding the vaccine clinics?  Anyone? Anyone?  **crickets**

The FDA approving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine is safe, it means the FDA is part of the deep state.

Ah, I see you've also been reading the comments on NPR's Facebook posts. I despair for our country. Decades of anti-science brainwashing have led a large segment of the population to prefer a veterinary dewormer (ivermectin, NOT antiviral) over safe, high-tech vaccine technology backed by years of research and fully FDA-approved, with safety outcomes MUCH better than those of the virus it protects against.

Maybe frugalnacho was being sarcastic?

He isn’t. Neither am I, unfortunately. The “FDA is deep state” posts started popping up as soon as the news broke yesterday morning.

So let me get this straight... The FDA gave several different vaccines conditional approval, leading to 360+ million doses being administered in the US. And it's only now, when one of these has gotten full approval, that the FDA is suddenly deep state? Either I'm a bit slow, or someone else is.

[OtherJen]

Sounds like Pfizer is now fully approved by the FDA.  I assume all the people who were waiting for that will now be flooding the vaccine clinics?  Anyone? Anyone?  **crickets**

The FDA approving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine is safe, it means the FDA is part of the deep state.

Ah, I see you've also been reading the comments on NPR's Facebook posts. I despair for our country. Decades of anti-science brainwashing have led a large segment of the population to prefer a veterinary dewormer (ivermectin, NOT antiviral) over safe, high-tech vaccine technology backed by years of research and fully FDA-approved, with safety outcomes MUCH better than those of the virus it protects against.

Maybe frugalnacho was being sarcastic?

He isn’t. Neither am I, unfortunately. The “FDA is deep state” posts started popping up as soon as the news broke yesterday morning.

So let me get this straight... The FDA gave several different vaccines conditional approval, leading to 360+ million doses being administered in the US. And it's only now, when one of these has gotten full approval, that the FDA is suddenly deep state? Either I'm a bit slow, or someone else is.

The anti-vaxxers are shifting the excuses goalposts yet again, as expected.

The FDA negated their pet response—"I won't accept a vaccine until it's fully approved!"—so they had to come up with something else. Apparently the FDA was paid off by the deep state to rush approval—i.e., not "real" approval—in a conspiracy with China (? Not really sure; this part is less clearly articulated than the rest of the nonsense) to mind-control the population and usher in a liberal communist state. Alternatively, variations of "God will protect me and my immune system works just fine. I'm not afraid of COVID and don't need no commie liberal sheeple vax" continue to pop up.

Being an atheist and not prone to believing in mythology, conspiracy theories, or other types of fiction, I don't pretend to understand it. I am merely reporting what I've seen in the last 24 hours.

[frugalnacho]

Sounds like Pfizer is now fully approved by the FDA.  I assume all the people who were waiting for that will now be flooding the vaccine clinics?  Anyone? Anyone?  **crickets**

The FDA approving the vaccine doesn't mean the vaccine is safe, it means the FDA is part of the deep state.

Ah, I see you've also been reading the comments on NPR's Facebook posts. I despair for our country. Decades of anti-science brainwashing have led a large segment of the population to prefer a veterinary dewormer (ivermectin, NOT antiviral) over safe, high-tech vaccine technology backed by years of research and fully FDA-approved, with safety outcomes MUCH better than those of the virus it protects against.

Maybe frugalnacho was being sarcastic?

He isn’t. Neither am I, unfortunately. The “FDA is deep state” posts started popping up as soon as the news broke yesterday morning.

So let me get this straight... The FDA gave several different vaccines conditional approval, leading to 360+ million doses being administered in the US. And it's only now, when one of these has gotten full approval, that the FDA is suddenly deep state? Either I'm a bit slow, or someone else is.

Yeah, anti-vaxxers are bat shit insane.  Don't try to make any sense of it, because it doesn't make any sense.  It's straight up pants-on-head crazy. 

[NorthernIkigai]

Yeah, sorry, I'm just a happily double-Pfizered liberal communist (ie resident of the Nordics) practicing the lowest form of wit here...

[OtherJen]

Yeah, sorry, I'm just a happily double-Pfizered liberal communist (ie resident of the Nordics) practicing the lowest form of wit here...

Double-Moderna'd liberal commie sheeple over here, watching in horror as my too-young-to-be-vaxxed niece and nephew get ready to start elementary school in a district without a mask mandate or vaccine mandate for employees. I get it. If I don't mock the ridiculousness, I might sink into despair.

[frugalnacho]

My son is starting preschool in 2 weeks and the school has no mask mandate.  They sent out a letter explaining their covid mitigation, and it said that the CDC and state and county health boards all recommend masks, and masks are effective, and they encourage masks...but masks are optional.  I don't get it. 

[NorthernIkigai]

Yeah, sorry, I'm just a happily double-Pfizered liberal communist (ie resident of the Nordics) practicing the lowest form of wit here...

Double-Moderna'd liberal commie sheeple over here, watching in horror as my too-young-to-be-vaxxed niece and nephew get ready to start elementary school in a district without a mask mandate or vaccine mandate for employees. I get it. If I don't mock the ridiculousness, I might sink into despair.

As ecstatic as I was about my parents getting their jabs earlier this year, and very happy about getting my own, I'm only mildly worried about my own kids being too young to get it yet. Despite the lack of a vaccine mandate for adults or masks for young kids at school (adults and older kids do have to wear masks there).

I think the figures from last year here (so essentially before the vaccines played any major role) showed that hardly any kids exposed to it at school got it, and very very few of the adults working in schools got it from the kids. Maybe all that handwashing and not mixing groups worked or something. So with most adults around them now fully vaxxed, and an amazing 69% of kids aged 12--15 in this city getting their first jab within 2 weeks of it becoming possible (!!), I'm thinking that the threat is lower than it's been for a long time. Maybe they even had it already, and we never noticed.

[OtherJen]

Yeah, sorry, I'm just a happily double-Pfizered liberal communist (ie resident of the Nordics) practicing the lowest form of wit here...

Double-Moderna'd liberal commie sheeple over here, watching in horror as my too-young-to-be-vaxxed niece and nephew get ready to start elementary school in a district without a mask mandate or vaccine mandate for employees. I get it. If I don't mock the ridiculousness, I might sink into despair.

As ecstatic as I was about my parents getting their jabs earlier this year, and very happy about getting my own, I'm only mildly worried about my own kids being too young to get it yet. Despite the lack of a vaccine mandate for adults or masks for young kids at school (adults and older kids do have to wear masks there).

I think the figures from last year here (so essentially before the vaccines played any major role) showed that hardly any kids exposed to it at school got it, and very very few of the adults working in schools got it from the kids. Maybe all that handwashing and not mixing groups worked or something. So with most adults around them now fully vaxxed, and an amazing 69% of kids aged 12--15 in this city getting their first jab within 2 weeks of it becoming possible (!!), I'm thinking that the threat is lower than it's been for a long time. Maybe they even had it already, and we never noticed.

Delta variant seems to behave differently. Here in the US, pediatric hospital ICUs and wards are being overcrowded, unlike last year, and this started occurring before the start of the school year. My friend's healthy, active 7-year-old became sick enough with Delta last month (after an outbreak in her day camp with many symptomatic cases) to require outpatient medical care—her parents couldn't keep her fever down.

Still high vaccination rates among those 12 and up should lower the risk for little ones considerably. The levels of circulating virus should be much lower than they are in countries like the US, where too many consider it a badge of honor to be unvaccinated, unmasked, and out in public as much as possible.

[jrhampt]

Yes, delta does seem to be different with kids.  My sister has two kids with covid right now (caught it in school) and one of them is fully vaccinated.

[mizzourah2006]

Yeah, sorry, I'm just a happily double-Pfizered liberal communist (ie resident of the Nordics) practicing the lowest form of wit here...

Double-Moderna'd liberal commie sheeple over here, watching in horror as my too-young-to-be-vaxxed niece and nephew get ready to start elementary school in a district without a mask mandate or vaccine mandate for employees. I get it. If I don't mock the ridiculousness, I might sink into despair.

As ecstatic as I was about my parents getting their jabs earlier this year, and very happy about getting my own, I'm only mildly worried about my own kids being too young to get it yet. Despite the lack of a vaccine mandate for adults or masks for young kids at school (adults and older kids do have to wear masks there).

I think the figures from last year here (so essentially before the vaccines played any major role) showed that hardly any kids exposed to it at school got it, and very very few of the adults working in schools got it from the kids. Maybe all that handwashing and not mixing groups worked or something. So with most adults around them now fully vaxxed, and an amazing 69% of kids aged 12--15 in this city getting their first jab within 2 weeks of it becoming possible (!!), I'm thinking that the threat is lower than it's been for a long time. Maybe they even had it already, and we never noticed.

Delta variant seems to behave differently. Here in the US, pediatric hospital ICUs and wards are being overcrowded, unlike last year, and this started occurring before the start of the school year. My friend's healthy, active 7-year-old became sick enough with Delta last month (after an outbreak in her day camp with many symptomatic cases) to require outpatient medical care—her parents couldn't keep her fever down.

Still high vaccination rates among those 12 and up should lower the risk for little ones considerably. The levels of circulating virus should be much lower than they are in countries like the US, where too many consider it a badge of honor to be unvaccinated, unmasked, and out in public as much as possible.

Curious if you have any indication to what extent the pediatrics being overwhelmed are a combination of very high RSV cases and an increase in Covid cases among children. In the south the CDCs data suggests that RSV is about as high as it was in the winter of 2019. Midwest is showing about half as high and for whatever reason the West and Northeast are basically showing baseline RSVs for this time of year. I know in my area RSV is running rampant. We had over 5 cases in our small daycare across 3 separate rooms in the past 5 days. I know when my daughter had RSV a few years ago she was hospitalized for 3 days. I almost wonder if its a combination of the two, where kids with RSV and Covid are getting very sick.

[OtherJen]

Yeah, sorry, I'm just a happily double-Pfizered liberal communist (ie resident of the Nordics) practicing the lowest form of wit here...

Double-Moderna'd liberal commie sheeple over here, watching in horror as my too-young-to-be-vaxxed niece and nephew get ready to start elementary school in a district without a mask mandate or vaccine mandate for employees. I get it. If I don't mock the ridiculousness, I might sink into despair.

As ecstatic as I was about my parents getting their jabs earlier this year, and very happy about getting my own, I'm only mildly worried about my own kids being too young to get it yet. Despite the lack of a vaccine mandate for adults or masks for young kids at school (adults and older kids do have to wear masks there).

I think the figures from last year here (so essentially before the vaccines played any major role) showed that hardly any kids exposed to it at school got it, and very very few of the adults working in schools got it from the kids. Maybe all that handwashing and not mixing groups worked or something. So with most adults around them now fully vaxxed, and an amazing 69% of kids aged 12--15 in this city getting their first jab within 2 weeks of it becoming possible (!!), I'm thinking that the threat is lower than it's been for a long time. Maybe they even had it already, and we never noticed.

Delta variant seems to behave differently. Here in the US, pediatric hospital ICUs and wards are being overcrowded, unlike last year, and this started occurring before the start of the school year. My friend's healthy, active 7-year-old became sick enough with Delta last month (after an outbreak in her day camp with many symptomatic cases) to require outpatient medical care—her parents couldn't keep her fever down.

Still high vaccination rates among those 12 and up should lower the risk for little ones considerably. The levels of circulating virus should be much lower than they are in countries like the US, where too many consider it a badge of honor to be unvaccinated, unmasked, and out in public as much as possible.

Curious if you have any indication to what extent the pediatrics being overwhelmed are a combination of very high RSV cases and an increase in Covid cases among children. In the south the CDCs data suggests that RSV is about as high as it was in the winter of 2019. Midwest is showing about half as high and for whatever reason the West and Northeast are basically showing baseline RSVs for this time of year. I know in my area RSV is running rampant. We had over 5 cases in our small daycare across 3 separate rooms in the past 5 days. I know when my daughter had RSV a few years ago she was hospitalized for 3 days. I almost wonder if its a combination of the two, where kids with RSV and Covid are getting very sick.

No idea, but I can imagine that two respiratory viruses at once could have really awful effects.

[Luke Warm]

i met someone the other day getting ivermectin for covid. isn't it easier just to get the vaccine?

[wenchsenior]

i met someone the other day getting ivermectin for covid. isn't it easier just to get the vaccine?

I was at a specialist doctor's appt the other day.  Handful of people in the large waiting room, signs requesting masks everywhere. Redneck old white guy comes in (maskless) and starts lecturing the reception area staff and waiting room at large about how he and his whole family got Covid and Ivermectin cured them, and how if he ran the CDC, this pandemic would be eradicated. "You don't need this vaccine nonsense, just go down to your local Tractor Supply Company and pick it up; Ivermectin right on the shelf there!" he tells us all. "It'll fix you right up! Now I don't need a mask b/c I have an amazing immune system!"  Other old white guy in reception area (also maskless) starts nodding and vocalizing agreement.

Receptionists both nod and smile and humor him and don't ask either of them to put a mask on. Note this is a specialist whose primary patient group has impaired immunity.  But we don't dare piss off the old white guys around here. 

***

In other news, there was a faculty all-hands meeting for my husband's university department 2 Friday's ago.  It was in person, no masks required b/c Texas has forbidden mask mandates at universities.  Most people attended the all-day meeting in person, in a closed conference room. My husband LOL'd, said 'no fucking way, that's moronic' and attended by video-conference, as did a few other faculty members.

One week later, the ENTIRE ATTENDING FACULTY was in quarantine b/c someone in that room had covid.  What a bunch of dumbasses.

[OtherJen]

i met someone the other day getting ivermectin for covid. isn't it easier just to get the vaccine?

I was at a specialist doctor's appt the other day.  Handful of people in the large waiting room, signs requesting masks everywhere. Redneck old white guy comes in (maskless) and starts lecturing the reception area staff and waiting room at large about how he and his whole family got Covid and Ivermectin cured them, and how if he ran the CDC, this pandemic would be eradicated. "You don't need this vaccine nonsense, just go down to your local Tractor Supply Company and pick it up; Ivermectin right on the shelf there!" he tells us all. "It'll fix you right up! Now I don't need a mask b/c I have an amazing immune system!"  Other old white guy in reception area (also maskless) starts nodding and vocalizing agreement.

Receptionists both nod and smile and humor him and don't ask either of them to put a mask on. Note this is a specialist whose primary patient group has impaired immunity.  But we don't dare piss off the old white guys around here. 

***

In other news, there was a faculty all-hands meeting for my husband's university department 2 Friday's ago.  It was in person, no masks required b/c Texas has forbidden mask mandates at universities.  Most people attended the all-day meeting in person, in a closed conference room. My husband LOL'd, said 'no fucking way, that's moronic' and attended by video-conference, as did a few other faculty members.

One week later, the ENTIRE ATTENDING FACULTY was in quarantine b/c someone in that room had covid.  What a bunch of dumbasses.

Jesus. You really can't fix stupid.

[former player]

i met someone the other day getting ivermectin for covid. isn't it easier just to get the vaccine?

I was at a specialist doctor's appt the other day.  Handful of people in the large waiting room, signs requesting masks everywhere. Redneck old white guy comes in (maskless) and starts lecturing the reception area staff and waiting room at large about how he and his whole family got Covid and Ivermectin cured them, and how if he ran the CDC, this pandemic would be eradicated. "You don't need this vaccine nonsense, just go down to your local Tractor Supply Company and pick it up; Ivermectin right on the shelf there!" he tells us all. "It'll fix you right up! Now I don't need a mask b/c I have an amazing immune system!"  Other old white guy in reception area (also maskless) starts nodding and vocalizing agreement.

Receptionists both nod and smile and humor him and don't ask either of them to put a mask on. Note this is a specialist whose primary patient group has impaired immunity.  But we don't dare piss off the old white guys around here. 

***

In other news, there was a faculty all-hands meeting for my husband's university department 2 Friday's ago.  It was in person, no masks required b/c Texas has forbidden mask mandates at universities.  Most people attended the all-day meeting in person, in a closed conference room. My husband LOL'd, said 'no fucking way, that's moronic' and attended by video-conference, as did a few other faculty members.

One week later, the ENTIRE ATTENDING FACULTY was in quarantine b/c someone in that room had covid.  What a bunch of dumbasses.

Jesus. You really can't fix stupid.

Apparently you can't even fix stupid among university faculty.  We really are screwed.

[mm1970]

One week later, the ENTIRE ATTENDING FACULTY was in quarantine b/c someone in that room had covid.  What a bunch of dumbasses.

Yup

I had a few hours a couple of weeks ago of in-person meetings.  We have a mask mandate here in CA, but there were 10 people in a conf room.  You better believe I was wearing the KN95.

[mizzourah2006]

Well, do any of the other faculty have Covid or are they just in quarantine? I find the mask and quarantine rules a bit odd. If you are vaccinated and are in a room with someone and you weren't wearing a mask you have to quarantine for 10 days, but if you are unvaccinated and had a mask on, you can go about your business as if nothing happened. In both instances you were in a room with an individual that tested positive for Covid. While I get that the mask helps, it's not fullproof.

That's why I don't get these rules regarding a covid vaccine or a negative test to go places either. There's plenty of evidence out now that many people with the vaccine are testing positive for Covid. So, why not just make it a negative test period. Whether or not you are vaccinated. If we had the evidence we had in June it'd make sense to have either or, but now it should be just proof of a negative test. If we really want to stop the spread in these places we should have evidence that no one attending has Covid, not that they took a vaccine that makes them less likely to have Covid. Who's more likely to have Covid? The unvaccinated person with proof that they don't have Covid or the vaccinated person that got the vaccine 6 months ago?

* I feel like I have to caveat this point of view with the fact that I am vaccinated, just trying to acknowledge the odd inconsistencies in many of these policies.

[wenchsenior]

Well, do any of the other faculty have Covid or are they just in quarantine? I find the mask and quarantine rules a bit odd. If you are vaccinated and are in a room with someone and you weren't wearing a mask you have to quarantine for 10 days, but if you are unvaccinated and had a mask on, you can go about your business as if nothing happened. In both instances you were in a room with an individual that tested positive for Covid. While I get that the mask helps, it's not fulllproof.

That's why I don't get these rules regarding a covid vaccine or a negative test to go places either. There's plenty of evidence out now that many people with the vaccine are testing positive for Covid. So, why not just make it a negative test period. Whether or not you are vaccinated. If we had the evidence we had in June it'd make sense to have either or, but now it should be just proof of a negative test. If we really want to stop the spread in these places we should have evidence that no one attending has Covid, not that they took a vaccine that makes them less likely to have Covid. Who's more likely to have Covid? The unvaccinated person with proof that they don't have Covid or the vaccinated person that got the vaccine 6 months ago?

* I feel like I have to caveat this point of view with the fact that I am vaccinated, just trying to acknowledge the odd inconsistencies in many of these policies.

The policies are totally inconsistent.  Our university is also not allowed to ask about vaccination status, so rules should be: masks in indoor group settings regardless of vaccination status (b/c current data indicate vaccinated people can transmit delta), unless you can demonstrate a negative Covid test.  And if there is a known exposure (vaccinated or not), then you have to quarantine.  And with Covid cases spiking to multiple hundreds of cases every day in this county and hospitalizations rising again (and students JUST getting back into town this week), anything that can reasonably be done via teleconference (like the faculty meeting) should be done that way.

My husband has bets with several other faculty members as to how long before the university drops the pretense of in-person back-to-normal classes and goes back to virtual learning.  Several are betting it happens as soon as the deadlines for fees and tuition passes. 

[MudPuppy]

Spouse and I were talking about this some, the way that schools etc are staying open despite the evidence that is in not working. Feels like a different kind of “virtue signaling”, like bravado signaling or something.

[mizzourah2006]

Well, do any of the other faculty have Covid or are they just in quarantine? I find the mask and quarantine rules a bit odd. If you are vaccinated and are in a room with someone and you weren't wearing a mask you have to quarantine for 10 days, but if you are unvaccinated and had a mask on, you can go about your business as if nothing happened. In both instances you were in a room with an individual that tested positive for Covid. While I get that the mask helps, it's not fulllproof.

That's why I don't get these rules regarding a covid vaccine or a negative test to go places either. There's plenty of evidence out now that many people with the vaccine are testing positive for Covid. So, why not just make it a negative test period. Whether or not you are vaccinated. If we had the evidence we had in June it'd make sense to have either or, but now it should be just proof of a negative test. If we really want to stop the spread in these places we should have evidence that no one attending has Covid, not that they took a vaccine that makes them less likely to have Covid. Who's more likely to have Covid? The unvaccinated person with proof that they don't have Covid or the vaccinated person that got the vaccine 6 months ago?

* I feel like I have to caveat this point of view with the fact that I am vaccinated, just trying to acknowledge the odd inconsistencies in many of these policies.

The policies are totally inconsistent.  Our university is also not allowed to ask about vaccination status, so rules should be: masks in indoor group settings regardless of vaccination status (b/c current data indicate vaccinated people can transmit delta), unless you can demonstrate a negative Covid test.  And if there is a known exposure (vaccinated or not), then you have to quarantine.  And with Covid cases spiking to multiple hundreds of cases every day in this county and hospitalizations rising again (and students JUST getting back into town this week), anything that can reasonably be done via teleconference (like the faculty meeting) should be done that way.

My husband has bets with several other faculty members as to how long before the university drops the pretense of in-person back-to-normal classes and goes back to virtual learning.  Several are betting it happens as soon as the deadlines for fees and tuition passes.

Yeah, I totally agree with pushing for teleconference when reasonable, especially if Covid is currently a problem in your area (I am using "your" royally here).

I wouldn't doubt the bolded. I read that many universities did that last fall. The theory was that they wanted the dollars from the dorms, so once they got people into the dorms they went to virtual knowing full well if they had gone virtual from the start no one would have paid for a dorm room. I mean..."you can't go to class in person...but we're completely comfortable with cramming all of you into the dorms and dining halls :)"  At least the off campus and faculty are safer.

Spouse and I were talking about this some, the way that schools etc are staying open despite the evidence that is in not working. Feels like a different kind of “virtue signaling”, like bravado signaling or something.

If you're talking about schools for children I think they are in a bit of a precarious situation. At least last year the entire country was reacting as if there was a pandemic. Most reasonable adult jobs were working with their employees to accommodate the fact that they were basically full time instructors and employees. Most jobs now largely see the pandemic as over because for vaccinated adults it largely is. Problem is it's not over for the kids. So, what do you do when your work is back to 100% but you now have to also be the teacher to a kindergartner and a 3rd grader as well?

For 12 and over, so HS and Unis I think they are working under the assumption that if you are vaccinated you are good, which up until about 4 weeks ago was largely true.

[GodlessCommie]

Yeah, sorry, I'm just a happily double-Pfizered liberal communist (ie resident of the Nordics) practicing the lowest form of wit here...

Carry on, Comrade. We are on schedule to have mind-control reptilian Communism installed in every red-blooded American's head by the end of the year.

[Dollar Slice]

That's why I don't get these rules regarding a covid vaccine or a negative test to go places either. There's plenty of evidence out now that many people with the vaccine are testing positive for Covid. So, why not just make it a negative test period. Whether or not you are vaccinated.

I think it's because they're all just harm reduction but not infallible/foolproof. Vaccinated people can catch and spread it, but at significantly lower rates. PCR tests usually take several days to come back, so negative PCR means you could have caught it two days ago and now you're contagious. Antigen tests are faster, but they have very high false negative rates and let a lot of positive cases through. All three have flaws, but all three will reduce the number of positive cases in the room significantly. Sometimes to zero, depending on the size of the crowd and there prevalence of COVID in the region.

Wearing masks is another method of harm reduction - it's not perfect but it reduces the spread by a useful amount. If you add that to vaccines, negative tests, and ventilation you're starting to get somewhere.

[By the River]

First home pro football game of the season last night.  Proof of vaccination or negative test within 72 hours were required as well as masks except when eating or drinking.   However, a vaccination station was set up right outside.  You could get jabbed and be in the stadium within 20 minutes.   

Local TV noted that some people took advantage of the offer.

[mm1970]

Spouse and I were talking about this some, the way that schools etc are staying open despite the evidence that is in not working. Feels like a different kind of “virtue signaling”, like bravado signaling or something.

It's too soon to tell, here anyway.

In California, we have a mask mandate. 
In Los Angeles, their case rates started dropping about 3 weeks after their mask mandate.
In my county, we started leveling off/ dropping at about 2 weeks after the local mask mandate.

But school just started a week ago, about 2 weeks after the mask mandate.  Kids have to wear masks in school, when indoors.  Adults too.  They will be doing regular COVID testing, and will test EVERY student and staff member in the first 2 weeks. 

So, I figure that we've been in school for one week, it will be another one or two to see if the mask mandates are working in school.