Covid vaccine rollout in the US - who do you know that is getting the vaccine?

[frugalnacho]

And while I doubt most anti-vax people can coherently explain their reticence

A lot is just laziness, at least from the people I've talked to who haven't gotten vaccinated. It's work, and up until recently the shots were only available if you could drive a significant distance away and wait in long lines. However in the last week or two it appears the state is now sending some of the vaccine supply to pharmacies, which means that now the shots are available on every other major corner in the city. That might help pick up the lazy people who didn't want to drive an hour round-trip and wait in line for 30+ minutes at the small number of state run sites.

I think the laziness is just an excuse.  I know a ton of people who have been eligible and simply haven't gotten it yet.  "oh I just haven't really had the time..".  Really? It's over a year into the pandemic and you still work from home and have ridiculous flexibility with your schedule, that's bullshit you don't have time, you could go get it right now but you just don't want to.  There is a pharmacy a mile from your house, and I know you've been out shopping in stores multiple times every week.  You don't even need to make appointments anymore, you can just walk in to almost any place and get it on the spot. 

The craziest thing is the person I am talking about is married to a healthcare worker, and that healthcare worker just tested positive earlier this week!  She had only received her first dose a couple weeks ago.  Every other healthcare worker I know was getting their first shot back in December and January.  They administer the vaccine at her place of work! She's there multiple times every week and could have easily gotten it, but has waited until late April.  So she works at a hospital, cases really started surging in a big third wave in early March here in Michigan...and she still waited until late April to get her first shot, and her husband has yet to get the shot.  That's beyond lazy, they must be having some extreme vaccine hesitancy. 

[Sid Hoffman]

I had no idea there were healthcare workers who hadn't gotten vaccinated, that really is odd. Then again; we're in uncharted waters to some degree. If it turns out the vaccines really do have terrible side effects that take 5-10 years to surface, then all of us who got vaccinated I guess don't need to worry about running out of money for our FIRE plans, ha! This is the first vaccine in history to get widespread deployment without even a single year of study, isn't it? I'd say I am 99.99% sure there's no possible way for it to have negative effects beyond that initial period after injection, but I'm sure not everyone is quite to confident.

Remember: there's still a huge segment of the population that drinks and drives, has unprotected sex, commits rape and murder, and makes a whole host of terrible decisions that are somewhere between bad, immoral, and outright illegal, yet they do it anyway. Being lazy about getting vaccinated is comparatively mild on the grand spectrum of choices people make every day. The USA in particular prides itself on people being independent, not uniform. We codify diversity in our very laws and rules of conduct. I think it's actually expected that some people will reject anything at all simply because we teach people to protest the government, regardless if you're left or right. The protests are just for different causes, but everyone has a cause and a means of protest.

[GuitarStv]

If it turns out the vaccines really do have terrible side effects that take 5-10 years to surface, then all of us who got vaccinated I guess don't need to worry about running out of money for our FIRE plans, ha!

I actually have had nightmares about this scenario.  Let's say it turns out that there is a serious problem caused by the mRNA vaccines that doesn't surface for three years that impacts 10% of the people who were vaccinated.  Anti-vaccine folks effectively win at that point.  The problem will be so widespread throughout the world, and so publicly visible there's no recovering.  You'll see people refusing vaccines in extremely high numbers (I'd bet 50%+) and then you'll see the resurgence of lots of pretty much unheard of diseases.  Not to mention the blow that the average person's faith in science would take.  It would be very bleak.

[Trifle]

I had no idea there were healthcare workers who hadn't gotten vaccinated, that really is odd.

This is anecdotal, but my best friend's niece is a nurse in a hospital in eastern Ohio.  The niece says there are loads of vaccine refusers on the nursing staff.  Some of them are trump-y and doing it for political reasons, but not all of them.  That really surprised me.  I thought nurses were usually a science-forward, selfless, compliant lot. 

I think it's only a matter of time before healthcare employers require the vaccine.  I worked in healthcare my whole career and it was a given that certain vaccines were required.  I think employers are just waiting until things are a bit more settled.  They're spooked at the idea of losing employees right now. 

[Sid Hoffman]

On the topic of an entire group of people turning against vaccines, I present to you: Japan.

Japan’s modern vaccine unease has its roots in a measles, mumps and rubella inoculation that some suspected of leading to higher rates of aseptic meningitis in the early 1990s. Though no definitive link was established, the shots were discontinued, and to this day Japan doesn’t recommend a combined MMR shot.

Another catalyst was a 1992 court ruling that not only made the government responsible for any adverse reactions related to vaccines, but also stipulated that suspected side effects would be considered adverse events, said Tetsuo Nakayama, a professor at the Kitasato Institute for Life Sciences whose research focuses on vaccines. Two years later, the government revised a vaccination law, scrapping mandatory vaccinations.

These events helped send a message that inoculations should be taken at one’s own risk, and diluted the awareness of vaccination as a greater public benefit, said Mikihito Tanaka, a professor at Waseda University specializing in science communication.

“Japan has a strong health insurance scheme and an accessible medical system,” he said. “Compared to places like the U.S., that makes the incentive to gamble one’s health with a new vaccine very low.”

The handling of the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine also looms large in public memory. After media coverage on claims the vaccine’s side effects included severe headaches and seizures, the health ministry in 2013 withdrew its recommendation for the shot, which has proven safe and effective in preventing cervical cancer. While it remained available on request, the vaccination rate plummeted from 70% to less than 1% currently. That may have led to an additional 5,700 deaths, according to one study.

From 70% to only 1% vaccinated within a single generation, leading to at least 5700 deaths and counting.

[Log]

As another anecdote of why someone would not yet be vaccinated: my brother and his fiancee are young millennials who both have hourly jobs. They just finally got their first doses of Pfizer a couple days ago as they needed to avoid missing work (either for the appointment itself or the side effects) and needed to get an appointment easily accessible by foot or public transit because neither of them drive. Since they’re young and healthy and have basically eliminated all contact with anyone but their co-workers (their jobs are not public-facing), they decided to wait until appointments were plentiful and they could schedule the perfect date with ease rather than refreshing loads of web pages to find the perfect appointment sooner.

There’s been lots of anxious hand-rubbing about low vaccination rates among young people, but I think this points to the fact that we just need to make getting a vaccine as easy as possible. Minor inconvenience is a powerful force in the human mind. We could and probably should start a program for door-to-door J&J vaccination in areas with low uptake.

[OtherJen]

As another anecdote of why someone would not yet be vaccinated: my brother and his fiancee are young millennials who both have hourly jobs. They just finally got their first doses of Pfizer a couple days ago as they needed to avoid missing work (either for the appointment itself or the side effects) and needed to get an appointment easily accessible by foot or public transit because neither of them drive. Since they’re young and healthy and have basically eliminated all contact with anyone but their co-workers (their jobs are not public-facing), they decided to wait until appointments were plentiful and they could schedule the perfect date with ease rather than refreshing loads of web pages to find the perfect appointment sooner.

There’s been lots of anxious hand-rubbing about low vaccination rates among young people, but I think this points to the fact that we just need to make getting a vaccine as easy as possible. Minor inconvenience is a powerful force in the human mind. We could and probably should start a program for door-to-door J&J vaccination in areas with low uptake.

Yes. And hourly jobs that probably offer little to no control or even much advance notice of one’s work schedule further complicate things. At this point, we need to do whatever gets the most shots in arms.

[Laserjet3051]

I had no idea there were healthcare workers who hadn't gotten vaccinated, that really is odd. Then again; we're in uncharted waters to some degree. If it turns out the vaccines really do have terrible side effects that take 5-10 years to surface, then all of us who got vaccinated I guess don't need to worry about running out of money for our FIRE plans, ha! This is the first vaccine in history to get widespread deployment without even a single year of study, isn't it? I'd say I am 99.99% sure there's no possible way for it to have negative effects beyond that initial period after injection, but I'm sure not everyone is quite to confident.

Remember: there's still a huge segment of the population that drinks and drives, has unprotected sex, commits rape and murder, and makes a whole host of terrible decisions that are somewhere between bad, immoral, and outright illegal, yet they do it anyway. Being lazy about getting vaccinated is comparatively mild on the grand spectrum of choices people make every day. The USA in particular prides itself on people being independent, not uniform. We codify diversity in our very laws and rules of conduct. I think it's actually expected that some people will reject anything at all simply because we teach people to protest the government, regardless if you're left or right. The protests are just for different causes, but everyone has a cause and a means of protest.

It's not really odd tbh. I'm a senior toxicologist who evaluates preclinical drug safety (including viral agents) and signs the reports that goes right to the FDA assuring the compound is safe. I run both short term and long term preclinical studies and draw reference in my reports to clinical effects, both long and short term that are relevant to the agent at hand. I also work inside an OR where infectious viral agents are used. I've got a pretty good handle on what "safe" means in the arena of vaccines as well as small and large molecule therapeutics. The concept of "safety" is incredibly complex. However, the long term risks of these vaccines are simply unknown and not a single human alive can provide any evidence that addresses the long term safety profile of any of the COVID vaccines. Moreover, there are identified and unidentified short term risks of the vaccines. Each of us has to weigh the risks (unknown and known) against the benefits for not only these vaccines but any medicine for that matter. The calculation is context specific for each person. In my case, and in the case of some of my coworkers, until we understand the long term safety profile better, we are simply not willing to assume the unknown risks given the presumed benefit. Show me the histopathology from a few hundred autopsied human brains 10 years post COVID-vaccine and w e can start to talk about long term safety. The list of long term safety endpoints is extensive. More to the point, as a drug development leader, I am personally unwilling to accept the risk of any NEW medication until its had a good run in the population, maybe a decade or two. Call me conservative, but all of you should be aware that there are many dangerous medications out there and I am simply unwilling to take certain risks, as other informed healthcare workers are as well. We are not science deniers, we ARE the scientists that are helping to approve testing in man.

[the_fixer]

I had no idea there were healthcare workers who hadn't gotten vaccinated, that really is odd. Then again; we're in uncharted waters to some degree. If it turns out the vaccines really do have terrible side effects that take 5-10 years to surface, then all of us who got vaccinated I guess don't need to worry about running out of money for our FIRE plans, ha! This is the first vaccine in history to get widespread deployment without even a single year of study, isn't it? I'd say I am 99.99% sure there's no possible way for it to have negative effects beyond that initial period after injection, but I'm sure not everyone is quite to confident.

Remember: there's still a huge segment of the population that drinks and drives, has unprotected sex, commits rape and murder, and makes a whole host of terrible decisions that are somewhere between bad, immoral, and outright illegal, yet they do it anyway. Being lazy about getting vaccinated is comparatively mild on the grand spectrum of choices people make every day. The USA in particular prides itself on people being independent, not uniform. We codify diversity in our very laws and rules of conduct. I think it's actually expected that some people will reject anything at all simply because we teach people to protest the government, regardless if you're left or right. The protests are just for different causes, but everyone has a cause and a means of protest.

It's not really odd tbh. I'm a senior toxicologist who evaluates preclinical drug safety (including viral agents) and signs the reports that goes right to the FDA assuring the compound is safe. I run both short term and long term preclinical studies and draw reference in my reports to clinical effects, both long and short term that are relevant to the agent at hand. I also work inside an OR where infectious viral agents are used. I've got a pretty good handle on what "safe" means in the arena of vaccines as well as small and large molecule therapeutics. The concept of "safety" is incredibly complex. However, the long term risks of these vaccines are simply unknown and not a single human alive can provide any evidence that addresses the long term safety profile of any of the COVID vaccines. Moreover, there are identified and unidentified short term risks of the vaccines. Each of us has to weigh the risks (unknown and known) against the benefits for not only these vaccines but any medicine for that matter. The calculation is context specific for each person. In my case, and in the case of some of my coworkers, until we understand the long term safety profile better, we are simply not willing to assume the unknown risks given the presumed benefit. Show me the histopathology from a few hundred autopsied human brains 10 years post COVID-vaccine and w e can start to talk about long term safety. The list of long term safety endpoints is extensive. More to the point, as a drug development leader, I am personally unwilling to accept the risk of any NEW medication until its had a good run in the population, maybe a decade or two. Call me conservative, but all of you should be aware that there are many dangerous medications out there and I am simply unwilling to take certain risks, as other informed healthcare workers are as well. We are not science deniers, we ARE the scientists that are helping to approve testing in man.

I agree we do not know what will happen 5, 10, 20 years down the road but how can we wait that long to vaccinate?

We would either have to accept massive death tolls for years or have measures in place to reduce the transmission, accept a lower death toll but high financial and social costs.

For me I feel comfortable that short term issues are well known and acceptable to me by the time I received my shot due to Millions of people going before me and time that passed.

For the long term I have to weigh if I am willing to accept that 5, 10 or 20 years down the road there is a chance that something (major or minor) could come up or I can go without the vaccine and have a lower quality of life and higher risk of sickness / death while waiting.

Guaranteed quality of life now VS a potential of sickness / death and a lowered quality of life while waiting for data.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shane]

Of course, it's always possible vaccines may cause problems, down the road, for people who get them. Another, equally plausible, scenario is that people who do not get vaccinated, because they think covid won't be a big deal for them, get sick, seemingly fully recover, but then, 1, 5, 10, or 50 years later, end up with some unexpected, negative health consequences related to Covid-19. The link between the varicella-zoster virus that causes chickenpox and shingles, which usually doesn't show up until many decades after the initial infection, seems like a relevant cautionary tale to me.

[OtherJen]

Of course, it's always possible vaccines may cause problems, down the road, for people who get them. Another, equally plausible, scenario is that people who do not get vaccinated, because they think covid won't be a big deal for them, get sick, seemingly fully recover, but then, 1, 5, 10, or 50 years later, end up with some unexpected, negative health consequences related to Covid-19. The link between the varicella-zoster virus that causes chickenpox and shingles, which usually doesn't show up until many decades after the initial infection, seems like a relevant cautionary tale to me.

Another good example is polio. My great-uncle had lifelong health problems after surviving a bout during childhood. Of course all of the kids in that family were vaccinated as soon as the option was available.

Or HPV. An infection might not be detected until a decade or two later, after oncogenic transformation and cancer development have already occurred.

[Cranky]

I had no idea there were healthcare workers who hadn't gotten vaccinated, that really is odd.

This is anecdotal, but my best friend's niece is a nurse in a hospital in eastern Ohio.  The niece says there are loads of vaccine refusers on the nursing staff.  Some of them are trump-y and doing it for political reasons, but not all of them.  That really surprised me.  I thought nurses were usually a science-forward, selfless, compliant lot. 

I think it's only a matter of time before healthcare employers require the vaccine.  I worked in healthcare my whole career and it was a given that certain vaccines were required.  I think employers are just waiting until things are a bit more settled.  They're spooked at the idea of losing employees right now.

There are tons of healthcare workers in NE Ohio who have refused the vaccine.

You don't need all that much science to become a healthcare worker, honestly.

[Taran Wanderer]

I had no idea there were healthcare workers who hadn't gotten vaccinated, that really is odd. Then again; we're in uncharted waters to some degree. If it turns out the vaccines really do have terrible side effects that take 5-10 years to surface, then all of us who got vaccinated I guess don't need to worry about running out of money for our FIRE plans, ha! This is the first vaccine in history to get widespread deployment without even a single year of study, isn't it? I'd say I am 99.99% sure there's no possible way for it to have negative effects beyond that initial period after injection, but I'm sure not everyone is quite to confident.

Remember: there's still a huge segment of the population that drinks and drives, has unprotected sex, commits rape and murder, and makes a whole host of terrible decisions that are somewhere between bad, immoral, and outright illegal, yet they do it anyway. Being lazy about getting vaccinated is comparatively mild on the grand spectrum of choices people make every day. The USA in particular prides itself on people being independent, not uniform. We codify diversity in our very laws and rules of conduct. I think it's actually expected that some people will reject anything at all simply because we teach people to protest the government, regardless if you're left or right. The protests are just for different causes, but everyone has a cause and a means of protest.

It's not really odd tbh. I'm a senior toxicologist who evaluates preclinical drug safety (including viral agents) and signs the reports that goes right to the FDA assuring the compound is safe. I run both short term and long term preclinical studies and draw reference in my reports to clinical effects, both long and short term that are relevant to the agent at hand. I also work inside an OR where infectious viral agents are used. I've got a pretty good handle on what "safe" means in the arena of vaccines as well as small and large molecule therapeutics. The concept of "safety" is incredibly complex. However, the long term risks of these vaccines are simply unknown and not a single human alive can provide any evidence that addresses the long term safety profile of any of the COVID vaccines. Moreover, there are identified and unidentified short term risks of the vaccines. Each of us has to weigh the risks (unknown and known) against the benefits for not only these vaccines but any medicine for that matter. The calculation is context specific for each person. In my case, and in the case of some of my coworkers, until we understand the long term safety profile better, we are simply not willing to assume the unknown risks given the presumed benefit. Show me the histopathology from a few hundred autopsied human brains 10 years post COVID-vaccine and w e can start to talk about long term safety. The list of long term safety endpoints is extensive. More to the point, as a drug development leader, I am personally unwilling to accept the risk of any NEW medication until its had a good run in the population, maybe a decade or two. Call me conservative, but all of you should be aware that there are many dangerous medications out there and I am simply unwilling to take certain risks, as other informed healthcare workers are as well. We are not science deniers, we ARE the scientists that are helping to approve testing in man.

This is a really bullshit answer. “Waaaah, vaccines have risks!  Waaaah!”  COVID has risks. You can pretty much count on 2% of those who test positive to die. We still don’t know what the long term health consequences are. 4-1/2 months after testing positive, DW can’t smell normally. I have bouts of fatigue every week. I wish we had been able to avoid the disease until after we got vaccinated. Despite our best efforts, we were unlucky and got sick. If you’re choosing not to get vaccinated, you’re choosing to get the disease with its own known and unknown, current and future health impacts and risks. And if by some chance you don’t get COVID, it’s because you’re protected by those of us who already suffered through the disease, got the vacccine, or both. Selfish.  Disgusting.

[former player]

I had no idea there were healthcare workers who hadn't gotten vaccinated, that really is odd. Then again; we're in uncharted waters to some degree. If it turns out the vaccines really do have terrible side effects that take 5-10 years to surface, then all of us who got vaccinated I guess don't need to worry about running out of money for our FIRE plans, ha! This is the first vaccine in history to get widespread deployment without even a single year of study, isn't it? I'd say I am 99.99% sure there's no possible way for it to have negative effects beyond that initial period after injection, but I'm sure not everyone is quite to confident.

Remember: there's still a huge segment of the population that drinks and drives, has unprotected sex, commits rape and murder, and makes a whole host of terrible decisions that are somewhere between bad, immoral, and outright illegal, yet they do it anyway. Being lazy about getting vaccinated is comparatively mild on the grand spectrum of choices people make every day. The USA in particular prides itself on people being independent, not uniform. We codify diversity in our very laws and rules of conduct. I think it's actually expected that some people will reject anything at all simply because we teach people to protest the government, regardless if you're left or right. The protests are just for different causes, but everyone has a cause and a means of protest.

It's not really odd tbh. I'm a senior toxicologist who evaluates preclinical drug safety (including viral agents) and signs the reports that goes right to the FDA assuring the compound is safe. I run both short term and long term preclinical studies and draw reference in my reports to clinical effects, both long and short term that are relevant to the agent at hand. I also work inside an OR where infectious viral agents are used. I've got a pretty good handle on what "safe" means in the arena of vaccines as well as small and large molecule therapeutics. The concept of "safety" is incredibly complex. However, the long term risks of these vaccines are simply unknown and not a single human alive can provide any evidence that addresses the long term safety profile of any of the COVID vaccines. Moreover, there are identified and unidentified short term risks of the vaccines. Each of us has to weigh the risks (unknown and known) against the benefits for not only these vaccines but any medicine for that matter. The calculation is context specific for each person. In my case, and in the case of some of my coworkers, until we understand the long term safety profile better, we are simply not willing to assume the unknown risks given the presumed benefit. Show me the histopathology from a few hundred autopsied human brains 10 years post COVID-vaccine and w e can start to talk about long term safety. The list of long term safety endpoints is extensive. More to the point, as a drug development leader, I am personally unwilling to accept the risk of any NEW medication until its had a good run in the population, maybe a decade or two. Call me conservative, but all of you should be aware that there are many dangerous medications out there and I am simply unwilling to take certain risks, as other informed healthcare workers are as well. We are not science deniers, we ARE the scientists that are helping to approve testing in man.

This is a really bullshit answer. “Waaaah, vaccines have risks!  Waaaah!”  COVID has risks. You can pretty much count on 2% of those who test positive to die. We still don’t know what the long term health consequences are. 4-1/2 months after testing positive, DW can’t smell normally. I have bouts of fatigue every week. I wish we had been able to avoid the disease until after we got vaccinated. Despite our best efforts, we were unlucky and got sick. If you’re choosing not to get vaccinated, you’re choosing to get the disease with its own known and unknown, current and future health impacts and risks. And if by some chance you don’t get COVID, it’s because you’re protected by those of us who already suffered through the disease, got the vacccine, or both. Selfish.  Disgusting.

Not only that but 1) does not set out any plausible scientific route for the current vaccines to cause health problems of any kind in 10 years time and 2) ignores the fact that in 10 years time a lot of us are old enough likely to be dead of other causes, making this concern irrelevant.  So not only selfish but also short-sightedly stupid.

[RetiredAt63]

^^ plus the early polio vaccines were used on a large scale very quickly.  And they were primitive compared to today's vaccines.

All the things we don't catch anymore thanks to vaccines.  Do I really need to list them?  People forget that our immune systems don't always protect us.  In most wars more people died from disease in camp than died of wounds.  Many of our diseases that we survive leave damage behind.  Scarlet fever, for example, was often called rheumatic fever because of the heart damage it caused.  We do still remember the damage polio caused, don't we?

[Cranky]

And polio seems like such an apt comparison, since most people who got polio only had mild cold-like symptoms. It just really sucked if you were one of the small percentage who ended up paralyzed or dead. The vaccine seemed pretty great as a result.

[zygote]

I had no idea there were healthcare workers who hadn't gotten vaccinated, that really is odd. Then again; we're in uncharted waters to some degree. If it turns out the vaccines really do have terrible side effects that take 5-10 years to surface, then all of us who got vaccinated I guess don't need to worry about running out of money for our FIRE plans, ha! This is the first vaccine in history to get widespread deployment without even a single year of study, isn't it? I'd say I am 99.99% sure there's no possible way for it to have negative effects beyond that initial period after injection, but I'm sure not everyone is quite to confident.

Remember: there's still a huge segment of the population that drinks and drives, has unprotected sex, commits rape and murder, and makes a whole host of terrible decisions that are somewhere between bad, immoral, and outright illegal, yet they do it anyway. Being lazy about getting vaccinated is comparatively mild on the grand spectrum of choices people make every day. The USA in particular prides itself on people being independent, not uniform. We codify diversity in our very laws and rules of conduct. I think it's actually expected that some people will reject anything at all simply because we teach people to protest the government, regardless if you're left or right. The protests are just for different causes, but everyone has a cause and a means of protest.

It's not really odd tbh. I'm a senior toxicologist who evaluates preclinical drug safety (including viral agents) and signs the reports that goes right to the FDA assuring the compound is safe. I run both short term and long term preclinical studies and draw reference in my reports to clinical effects, both long and short term that are relevant to the agent at hand. I also work inside an OR where infectious viral agents are used. I've got a pretty good handle on what "safe" means in the arena of vaccines as well as small and large molecule therapeutics. The concept of "safety" is incredibly complex. However, the long term risks of these vaccines are simply unknown and not a single human alive can provide any evidence that addresses the long term safety profile of any of the COVID vaccines. Moreover, there are identified and unidentified short term risks of the vaccines. Each of us has to weigh the risks (unknown and known) against the benefits for not only these vaccines but any medicine for that matter. The calculation is context specific for each person. In my case, and in the case of some of my coworkers, until we understand the long term safety profile better, we are simply not willing to assume the unknown risks given the presumed benefit. Show me the histopathology from a few hundred autopsied human brains 10 years post COVID-vaccine and w e can start to talk about long term safety. The list of long term safety endpoints is extensive. More to the point, as a drug development leader, I am personally unwilling to accept the risk of any NEW medication until its had a good run in the population, maybe a decade or two. Call me conservative, but all of you should be aware that there are many dangerous medications out there and I am simply unwilling to take certain risks, as other informed healthcare workers are as well. We are not science deniers, we ARE the scientists that are helping to approve testing in man.

Okay, but for us to know the long term safety profile, somebody has to take the vaccine. I find it a little off-putting that you, as a drug development leader, are willing to allow other people to take on potential risks that you wouldn't take on yourself. I get that each person has to do their own risk analysis for the vaccine (likelihood of catching covid, risks of covid, etc.), but to say that in general you're totally willing to potentially risk other people's health over a decade or two before you'd think about risking your own for any new drug? If it's safe enough to give to the millions of people, it should be safe enough for you.

Perhaps my own background is coloring my opinion here, though. I'm a scientist in another field, and have generally always been happy to be an early adopter of new medical technologies to help advance our understanding. I also had covid in March 2020 and it sucked - it took me months to get back to normal after my "mild" case. So to me it seems clear that any small risk (known or unknown) from the vaccine is nothing in comparison to what covid could do to me if I caught it again.

[GuitarStv]

The AZ vaccine is harming a lot more Canadians than expected.  Original estimates were that it would be causing blood clots at around 1 in a 1,000,000.  The we were told that it was going to be 1 in 100,000 to 1 in 250,000.  Then 1 in 95,000 - 1 in 130,000.

The numbers we're seeing in Ontario after roll-out are 1 in 60,000 . . . so we're putting it on a hold.  https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/canadas-alberta-province-stops-giving-first-doses-astrazeneca-vaccine-2021-05-11/

[frugalnacho]

And while I doubt most anti-vax people can coherently explain their reticence

A lot is just laziness, at least from the people I've talked to who haven't gotten vaccinated. It's work, and up until recently the shots were only available if you could drive a significant distance away and wait in long lines. However in the last week or two it appears the state is now sending some of the vaccine supply to pharmacies, which means that now the shots are available on every other major corner in the city. That might help pick up the lazy people who didn't want to drive an hour round-trip and wait in line for 30+ minutes at the small number of state run sites.

I think the laziness is just an excuse.  I know a ton of people who have been eligible and simply haven't gotten it yet.  "oh I just haven't really had the time..".  Really? It's over a year into the pandemic and you still work from home and have ridiculous flexibility with your schedule, that's bullshit you don't have time, you could go get it right now but you just don't want to.  There is a pharmacy a mile from your house, and I know you've been out shopping in stores multiple times every week.  You don't even need to make appointments anymore, you can just walk in to almost any place and get it on the spot. 

The craziest thing is the person I am talking about is married to a healthcare worker, and that healthcare worker just tested positive earlier this week!  She had only received her first dose a couple weeks ago.  Every other healthcare worker I know was getting their first shot back in December and January.  They administer the vaccine at her place of work! She's there multiple times every week and could have easily gotten it, but has waited until late April.  So she works at a hospital, cases really started surging in a big third wave in early March here in Michigan...and she still waited until late April to get her first shot, and her husband has yet to get the shot.  That's beyond lazy, they must be having some extreme vaccine hesitancy.

And this person tested positive for covid and the flu.  This is what I mean by the laziness is just an excuse.  Not doing laundry for a week is lazy; avoiding getting an available vaccine when you are exposed to a deadly disease on the regular is just plain stupid.   

[Dollar Slice]

For folks in the US with kids 12-15, CVS pharmacy is now making appointments for that age group! Pfizer only.

[sui generis]

I got my second shot yesterday afternoon and was hopeful at first.  I had some hot/cold episodes overnight, but not too bad and woke up with a painful arm, radiating into my neck and later a headache and just general exhaustion, but was more than happy with the bargain and looked forward to feeling better by end of day or maybe next morning.  Then, right at the 24 hour mark, a serious nausea came on, and I've been  debilitated for the last few hours, clutching a pot and trying to choke down ginger tea and water.  My sister, who also happened to get her second shot yesterday was battling nasuea since this morning.  I was surprised as I didn't think of that as a common side effect, but it is what it is.....

Then, I realized I ate some old rice for lunch this afternoon.  I usually have a stomach of steel and I don't think this rice was particularly risky compared to the leftovers I regularly eat but....now I can't be confident where to lay the blame.  I mean, my sister also had nausea, so who knows right?  I texted her that it might be mild food poisoning for me and she said her young son (who did not have a shot) also has been nauseated, so she's not sure if it's something they both ate or if he's just having sympathy pains with her shot side effects.  So now we both don't know whether we are independently and *very* coincidentally sick or if we both have the same less common vaxx side effects.

Kinda doesn't matter becauae being nauseated is so horrible.  I'd forgotten, it's been so long.  And nothing is working to alleviate it.  Who cares about the source when you feel like this?!

[Dollar Slice]

Kinda doesn't matter becauae being nauseated is so horrible.  I'd forgotten, it's been so long.  And nothing is working to alleviate it.  Who cares about the source when you feel like this?!

Oh no :-(  So sorry you're feeling ill. I hope it passes soon. I've been having chronic stomach problems since last summer so I fully, fully empathize. Severe nausea seems to be un-ignorable and un-distractable. The worst.

If you have anything with real peppermint in it (like Altoids, which I always seem to have in my bag) it helps me a lot with nausea.

[the_fixer]

I got my second shot yesterday afternoon and was hopeful at first.  I had some hot/cold episodes overnight, but not too bad and woke up with a painful arm, radiating into my neck and later a headache and just general exhaustion, but was more than happy with the bargain and looked forward to feeling better by end of day or maybe next morning.  Then, right at the 24 hour mark, a serious nausea came on, and I've been  debilitated for the last few hours, clutching a pot and trying to choke down ginger tea and water.  My sister, who also happened to get her second shot yesterday was battling nasuea since this morning.  I was surprised as I didn't think of that as a common side effect, but it is what it is.....

Then, I realized I ate some old rice for lunch this afternoon.  I usually have a stomach of steel and I don't think this rice was particularly risky compared to the leftovers I regularly eat but....now I can't be confident where to lay the blame.  I mean, my sister also had nausea, so who knows right?  I texted her that it might be mild food poisoning for me and she said her young son (who did not have a shot) also has been nauseated, so she's not sure if it's something they both ate or if he's just having sympathy pains with her shot side effects.  So now we both don't know whether we are independently and *very* coincidentally sick or if we both have the same less common vaxx side effects.

Kinda doesn't matter becauae being nauseated is so horrible.  I'd forgotten, it's been so long.  And nothing is working to alleviate it.  Who cares about the source when you feel like this?!

Leftovers
 https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=111053&share_tid=121855&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum%2Emrmoneymustache%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D121855&share_type=t&link_source=app

Your post made me think of this thread :)

Hope you get to feeling better soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sui generis]

Thanks, @Dollar Slice ... And sorry to hear you have to deal with this so regularly. It is definitely uniquely horrible.

I got my second shot yesterday afternoon and was hopeful at first.  I had some hot/cold episodes overnight, but not too bad and woke up with a painful arm, radiating into my neck and later a headache and just general exhaustion, but was more than happy with the bargain and looked forward to feeling better by end of day or maybe next morning.  Then, right at the 24 hour mark, a serious nausea came on, and I've been  debilitated for the last few hours, clutching a pot and trying to choke down ginger tea and water.  My sister, who also happened to get her second shot yesterday was battling nasuea since this morning.  I was surprised as I didn't think of that as a common side effect, but it is what it is.....

Then, I realized I ate some old rice for lunch this afternoon.  I usually have a stomach of steel and I don't think this rice was particularly risky compared to the leftovers I regularly eat but....now I can't be confident where to lay the blame.  I mean, my sister also had nausea, so who knows right?  I texted her that it might be mild food poisoning for me and she said her young son (who did not have a shot) also has been nauseated, so she's not sure if it's something they both ate or if he's just having sympathy pains with her shot side effects.  So now we both don't know whether we are independently and *very* coincidentally sick or if we both have the same less common vaxx side effects.

Kinda doesn't matter becauae being nauseated is so horrible.  I'd forgotten, it's been so long.  And nothing is working to alleviate it.  Who cares about the source when you feel like this?!

Leftovers
 https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=111053&share_tid=121855&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum%2Emrmoneymustache%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D121855&share_type=t&link_source=app

Your post made me think of this thread :)

Hope you get to feeling better soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes!

I had read that thread and I think it was niggling at the back of my mind, finally making the connection about rice after a few hours! I hadn't reheated it multiple times and I eat leftover rice a LOT, but... Well, it's a mystery!

I won't tell any vaccine hesitant people about my experience since I wouldn't want to give them unwarranted cause to avoid it ;)

[MaybeBabyMustache]

My 14 & 15 year old got vaccinated today. So very excited about the progress.

[Dollar Slice]

I had read that thread and I think it was niggling at the back of my mind, finally making the connection about rice after a few hours! I hadn't reheated it multiple times and I eat leftover rice a LOT, but... Well, it's a mystery!

I won't tell any vaccine hesitant people about my experience since I wouldn't want to give them unwarranted cause to avoid it ;)

Definitely warn them about old rice, though ;-)

Odd coincidence, the only person I know IRL who had nausea after the vaccine (Moderna) was the only person I've ever told that they shouldn't let rice sit out because it's not safe. They'd never heard of it being a dangerous food for food poisoning, and they have had serious food poisoning in the past (campylobacter) so when they mentioned leaving rice out on the counter to make fried rice later, I wanted to make sure and warn them.

[scantee]

My 13-year-old has an appointment for Tuesday. Yay! That just leaves my 11-year-old. At the very latest he’ll get his vaccine in the fall when he turns 12 but hopefully they’ll approval for younger ages well before that.

[Trifle]

Our 15 year old has an appointment for tomorrow morning.  Yay!

[frugalnacho]

My 15 year old niece is getting her 1st pfizer today.

[Jenny Wren]

As of yesterday everyone in my immediate fam has had both doses. My 16 year old got his second Pfizer on Tuesday and he's dealt with the same side effects as me -- low fever, sore arm, and a headache that just won't go away. He woke up feeling better with just a minor headache this morning. My adult son's partner got the second dose yesterday (Moderna) and as of this morning feels fine.

I'm planning a 6 hour road trip to visit my mom in two weeks once the boy hits fully vaccinated status, hooray!

[OtherJen]

I had read that thread and I think it was niggling at the back of my mind, finally making the connection about rice after a few hours! I hadn't reheated it multiple times and I eat leftover rice a LOT, but... Well, it's a mystery!

I won't tell any vaccine hesitant people about my experience since I wouldn't want to give them unwarranted cause to avoid it ;)

Definitely warn them about old rice, though ;-)

Odd coincidence, the only person I know IRL who had nausea after the vaccine (Moderna) was the only person I've ever told that they shouldn't let rice sit out because it's not safe. They'd never heard of it being a dangerous food for food poisoning, and they have had serious food poisoning in the past (campylobacter) so when they mentioned leaving rice out on the counter to make fried rice later, I wanted to make sure and warn them.

Interesting. My husband and I both had nausea with the first Moderna dose but not the second. I'd blame food for the first one, but we received our doses almost a week apart. We both had 24-hour fevers with the second dose but not the first.

[jrhampt]

My sister in Europe is finally getting hers Monday, and another younger niece and nephew who just became eligible are getting their first shots next week too.

[habanero]

My sister in Europe is finally getting hers Monday, and another younger niece and nephew who just became eligible are getting their first shots next week too.

Europe is finally catching up - and pretty fast now. We (Norway) are scheduled to pass the US early July by the look of things now. This is despite us not using the AZ and J&J jabs as opposed to most of Europe. The start has been much slower but we are likely to end up with a significantly higher proportion of the (adult) population vaccinated as take-down is much higher. So far, in the capital, depending on part of the city between 95 and 99% have taken the offer to get jabbed.

[jrhampt]

My sister in Europe is finally getting hers Monday, and another younger niece and nephew who just became eligible are getting their first shots next week too.

Europe is finally catching up - and pretty fast now. We (Norway) are scheduled to pass the US early July by the look of things now. This is despite us not using the AZ and J&J jabs as opposed to most of Europe. The start has been much slower but we are likely to end up with a significantly higher proportion of the (adult) population vaccinated as take-down is much higher. So far, in the capital, depending on part of the city between 95 and 99% have taken the offer to get jabbed.

Very happy to see it!!  I’m hoping to reacquaint myself w Europe this fall.

[OtherJen]

A few of my friends' teenaged children have already gotten their first doses. I know that their parents are so relieved.

That's great news about Europe! My colleagues in the UK are still waiting for their jabs but the one in Italy is fully vaccinated.

[Fomerly known as something]

Because I’ve got my jabs I might be taking a work trip to Europe in June.  All I know was I had to tell my boss if it had them and if my Official Passport was still good (I’m a government employee, I currently have 3 valid passports).

[habanero]

A few of my friends' teenaged children have already gotten their first doses. I know that their parents are so relieved.

That's great news about Europe! My colleagues in the UK are still waiting for their jabs but the one in Italy is fully vaccinated.

Countries inside the EU will broadly progress at the same pace as doses are obtained via a common programme and distributed according to population. UK is quite far ahead the rest of the bunch, but still lagging the US. Doses are still in limited supply so who gets when follows the set prioritizations, but in the not-so-distant future  the game will change. According to our government everyone over 18 can expect their first shot before the end of July. As we only use Pfizer and Moderna a single shot offers very good protection so they have prolonged the interval between dose 1 and 2 so get the first dose into more arms.

The interesting part, however, is when you get where the US sort of is now. Plenty of doses, but lack of arms to put 'em in. Fabled Israel peaked out in the low 80s percent of the adult population, vaccination rates are quite low a few places in the US as far as I understand, we see significant variations across ethnicity etc as to who take the jab and not over here. Once you get into this part of the vaccination programme you are likely to see quite large variations across Europe and the world - degree of skepicism towards vaccines isn't evenly distributed and in the end that starts mattering when doses are plentiful. It doesn't now as doses are lacking, but it will eventually. Our public health folks expects that over 90% of the adult population will be vaccinated in the end, but we shall see. So its a bit of the tortoise vs the hare. For countries with high infection rates like the US and UK, speed matters greatly, while for countries with much lower rates of infection is somewhat less relevant and you worry bit more about where you end up.

The noise regaring the AZ jab does not help in this regard. While you can discuss the merits of the worry and the probability of dying from it, the damage is largely done already. As of two days ago we ditched it completely from our vaccination programme. The J&J is still kind of under review and the plan is you can get it if you want to, but you have to actively ask for it. In other european countries one or both are in use or is planned to be used - deliveries of J&J has barely started. The same worry applies to J&J as to AZ and the data out of the US isn't very reliable as J&J has mostly been given to homeless etc so the follow-up might not be the greatest.

[Trifle]

Our 15 year old got his first Pfizer yesterday -- no side effects.  He's the last one, so once he gets his second shot, that's our whole family.  Yay!

[GuitarStv]

The noise regaring the AZ jab does not help in this regard. While you can discuss the merits of the worry and the probability of dying from it, the damage is largely done already. As of two days ago we ditched it completely from our vaccination programme. The J&J is still kind of under review and the plan is you can get it if you want to, but you have to actively ask for it. In other european countries one or both are in use or is planned to be used - deliveries of J&J has barely started. The same worry applies to J&J as to AZ and the data out of the US isn't very reliable as J&J has mostly been given to homeless etc so the follow-up might not be the greatest.

The AZ vaccine is giving blood clots to 1 in 60k people who receive it here in Ontario.  While it's better than not being vaccinated, if there's any way to avoid using it in favour of the mRNA vaccines it seems prudent to avoid it.  As soon as lots of mRNA vaccines became widely available here provinces stopped giving out Astra Zeneca.  Blood clots in the brain and strokes caused by a vaccine are a very real concern and should be taken quite seriously.

[habanero]

The AZ vaccine is giving blood clots to 1 in 60k people who receive it here in Ontario.  While it's better than not being vaccinated, if there's any way to avoid using it in favour of the mRNA vaccines it seems prudent to avoid it.  As soon as lots of mRNA vaccines became widely available here provinces stopped giving out Astra Zeneca.  Blood clots in the brain and strokes caused by a vaccine are a very real concern and should be taken quite seriously.

We have 6 in 136k and 4 dead .

The reasoning our folks have done is that given the low rate of infections currently AND the most vulnerable already having recieved 1st dose with a mRNA the risks of the vaccine far outweights the risk of the disease. If infection rates were higher and/or mRNA weren't available in large quantities it would look different so they are very clear on risk/reward being different elsewhere but not here. Also the delivery problems with AZ is making it borderline irrelevant anyway so the decison was probably a pretty easy one.

Ditching J&J is a much bigger decision provided expected deliveries actually occur which is a big if, as seen with AZ. If the situation changes one one or more fronts we might start using the J&J for gen pop, but by the look of things now it will be all mRNA going forward for the vast majority.

We, along with Denmark, were the epicenters for this blood-cloths so the way it came out is also a bit different from here. The dude who headed the investigation pretty much said AZ was crazy to deny the link as it was so bloody obvious it wasn't even worth discussing and he was proven right in the end. These rare conditions didn't even exist until they started showing up here, but then other countries looked quite a bit harder and they popped up everywere. To my understandig the combination of cloths and blood plate count is so rare its barely mentioned in the medical literatur so there was never any real discussion here as to what the cause were when it was discovered.

So its a combo of the risk, low delivereies of AZ anyway, more than expected from Pfizer and prolonged intervals between dose 1 and 2 and very good effect from dose 1 means you don't delay the programme by that much anyway. Its like 1-2 weeks from ditching AZ and a few more if ditching J&J as well. On the plus side confidence is probably gonna be higher so you end up with a higher proportion of the population vaccinated which is also an important factor.

[jeroly]

Where are folks getting their <16-year-olds vaccinated?

[frugalnacho]

Where are folks getting their <16-year-olds vaccinated?

Anywhere that offers vaccines.  I believe my niece went to cvs.

[Jenny Wren]

Where are folks getting their <16-year-olds vaccinated?

In WA state, it's anywhere that offers the Pfizer vaccine. This may require calling around before booking, as some of the pharmacy sites only offer Moderna and they don't list that on their online booking portal.

[jeroly]

I just checked the situation for DC and it’s true there too... at any site offering Pfizer. That surprised me as they were (for the longest time) only offering the vaccine for 16- and 17- year-olds at one location.

[frugalnacho]

All the sites I've checked require your DOB as one of the questions to determine eligibility, so I would imagine you could try at any place and they will either tell you that you aren't eligible or they will tell you available time slots.  I just checked kroger and cvs websites and this is true.  Both are offering pfizer to 12+ in michigan right now.  Appointments look plentiful.  While you can schedule an appointment, the cvs website says you don't even need one and can just walk to get it. 

[SEAK]

Our 14 year old got his Pfizer shot yesterday, yay! Our soon to be 12 year old has to wait a bit longer to be eligible.

[CCCA]

Yesterday was the first day 12-15 year olds could be vaccinated in CA so we got our 12yo in yesterday afternoon. Waited awhile as the place was packed but the shot itself was fast.

[NumberJohnny5]

Our two oldest (both under 16) got their first shot yesterday. I was keeping an eye on the news and as soon as I saw that the CDC gave the ok, I checked and was able to book both for the next day. I don't know about all the news outlets, but I was checking CNN and was disappointed that I had to scroll down a ways to see any news on that front. I would have expected it to be front and center.

Still got one more kid that needs to be vaccinated, but he's under 12 so he'll have to wait. He's the one who still can't smell since at least August of last year. I'm hoping that maybe once he's vaccinated that'll resolve itself (I doubt it, that's not quite how it works...but I can hope regardless).

[Shane]

Walked into a local pharmacy with our 12 year old, yesterday morning. Filled out and signed the paperwork, and they gave her the shot, right then and there. No appointment. No wait. No problem.

[JLee]

I am now past the 2 week second shot period, good to go! :D