Author Topic: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???  (Read 28991 times)

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2020, 11:55:21 AM »
I went to Old People Hour at the grocery store this morning. Most shoppers were wearing gloves and probably a third had some kind of mask.

Good. My dad made a schedule of local Old People Grocery Hours (because he's too stubborn to let me do his shopping), and I told him to wear a mask when he goes shopping. He'll do it if other people are wearing them.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2020, 12:13:13 PM »
If you are a sewer, you can join your state's group to help.

If you are a sewer, please clean yourself up.  No reason to let yourself get that disgusting just because you can't go outside.  :P

wenchsenior

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2020, 12:13:47 PM »
:sigh:

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other and I have several masks in case one of my group of three people gets sick.

But I want to point out what the CDC site says,

"If you are NOT sick: You do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick (and they are not able to wear a facemask). Facemasks may be in short supply and they should be saved for caregivers."


The CDC has not changed this statement since the outbreak began, so far as I know.

I am planning on following their advice. If it changes, I'll 'mask up.'


Jack0Life

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2020, 12:23:27 PM »
It pisses me off when I see people out there with masks. I’ll give an exception to elders or other high risk groups but for young people like myself to be wearing one is shameful. Both healthcare and construction workers are having a hard time getting any of them them because other people panic and buy them out.  It disrupts those who actually need them. Instead they’re used to prevent what to most people is equivalent to the flu.

Why does it piss you off?

I'm a front line hospital worker.  I've been going into work everyday for the past few weeks knowing full well I may not have the PPE for myself this day, yet may be called upon to care for a patient that may be sick with coronavirus.  However, someone using a mask outside is not the reason the hospitals are running low.  Why would one be pissed off at others for protecting themselves or others?  Maybe the young person you see wearing a mask is taking care of an elderly person or immunocompromised person at home.  Maybe the person wearing a mask is another frontline healthcare worker, and has been exposed to many sick patients and knows they are high risk for being a transmitter of the virus for a week before feeling symptoms.

Well said.
I don't understand the argument of people using face masks are depriving medical personnel of having one ??
I mean do all of us shop at the same place ?? Do medical offices buy these face masks from Walmart/Amazon like the rest of us. Don't these places have their own suppliers ??
My point is that why don't the government sees the important of everyone having facial protection and find ways to make sure everyone can wear one when out in public.
I stated before. How hard is it for companies to ramp up production of these things. As someone mentioned. Taiwan went from making 30k to 300k. Is that so hard for us to do ??

DHMO

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2020, 12:46:57 PM »
Caregivers aren't just hospital personnel, there are also in-home health aides and family members to consider. You would wear a mask when working with your sick kid or elderly client, as part of maintaining isolation in the person's bedroom. Those people won't have access to hospital suppliers, and would be looking in local stores.

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2020, 12:54:31 PM »
I wore a homemade mask to the grocery store because I have a slight runny nose.  I doubt it does much, but if I happen to sneeze it is a bit of a guard.
But, sadly, it is an identical mask to those I've made for neighbors who are doctors and nurses in our hospital. Their clinics are rationing PPE to the point that they are scared of seeing patients. Too many people are untested, so they have no idea who actually has COVID-19, and they only get masks when they know the patient does.


I don't understand the argument of people using face masks are depriving medical personnel of having one ??
I mean do all of us shop at the same place ?? Do medical offices buy these face masks from Walmart/Amazon like the rest of us. Don't these places have their own suppliers ??
My point is that why don't the government sees the important of everyone having facial protection and find ways to make sure everyone can wear one when out in public.
I stated before. How hard is it for companies to ramp up production of these things. As someone mentioned. Taiwan went from making 30k to 300k. Is that so hard for us to do ??

Right now, there are doctors and nurses who are going to Walmart and Lowes searching for additional masks. They are ordering off of Amazon if they find stock.  Because there are none to be found.  So yes, we do shop at the same place.  Their suppliers can't supply them.  And patients are stealing them. Masks used to greet us at urgent care, patients encouraged to use them, now they are locked up, literally. Patients are told to bring a tissue to cover their nose and mouth if they have flu like symptoms. People supsecting covid-19 are being told to not come inside.

The government has been eroded over decades. The current government believes in business over people. Some businesses have taken up the charge to help for the greater good, but others have not. As of right now, our leadership hasn't told businesses they have to do this. That's the difference between us and somewhere like Taiwan; either the businesses stepped up to the plate, or possibly, the government forced them to step up.


Jack0Life

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2020, 01:29:43 PM »
I wore a homemade mask to the grocery store because I have a slight runny nose.  I doubt it does much, but if I happen to sneeze it is a bit of a guard.
But, sadly, it is an identical mask to those I've made for neighbors who are doctors and nurses in our hospital. Their clinics are rationing PPE to the point that they are scared of seeing patients. Too many people are untested, so they have no idea who actually has COVID-19, and they only get masks when they know the patient does.


I don't understand the argument of people using face masks are depriving medical personnel of having one ??
I mean do all of us shop at the same place ?? Do medical offices buy these face masks from Walmart/Amazon like the rest of us. Don't these places have their own suppliers ??
My point is that why don't the government sees the important of everyone having facial protection and find ways to make sure everyone can wear one when out in public.
I stated before. How hard is it for companies to ramp up production of these things. As someone mentioned. Taiwan went from making 30k to 300k. Is that so hard for us to do ??

Right now, there are doctors and nurses who are going to Walmart and Lowes searching for additional masks. They are ordering off of Amazon if they find stock.  Because there are none to be found.  So yes, we do shop at the same place.  Their suppliers can't supply them.  And patients are stealing them. Masks used to greet us at urgent care, patients encouraged to use them, now they are locked up, literally. Patients are told to bring a tissue to cover their nose and mouth if they have flu like symptoms. People supsecting covid-19 are being told to not come inside.

The government has been eroded over decades. The current government believes in business over people. Some businesses have taken up the charge to help for the greater good, but others have not. As of right now, our leadership hasn't told businesses they have to do this. That's the difference between us and somewhere like Taiwan; either the businesses stepped up to the plate, or possibly, the government forced them to step up.

Thank you for the thought out explanation instead of the usual, we are taking away from the medical profession.

starbuck

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2020, 02:10:15 PM »
If you are a sewer, you can join your state's group to help.

If you are a sewer, please clean yourself up.  No reason to let yourself get that disgusting just because you can't go outside.  :P

I love the English language. :)

Cranky

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2020, 02:27:40 PM »
If you are a sewer, you can join your state's group to help.

If you are a sewer, please clean yourself up.  No reason to let yourself get that disgusting just because you can't go outside.  :P

I love the English language. :)

Now we have to be “sewists “ which still sounds funny to me!

mm1970

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2020, 02:39:37 PM »
I made a single cloth mask yesterday (I've got kids and a job). It's too big for me so I guess my husband will be the person doing our next shopping run.

If you can't sew, use a scarf, a bandana, whatever.  I won't hurt.

russelljohnson

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2020, 05:15:16 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

wenchsenior

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2020, 05:20:37 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

Jack0Life

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2020, 05:32:19 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

Has the CDC done anything positive in this entire situation except to label it a "pandemic" after it already spread everywhere.
Its basic logic. We know wearing masks will help prevent the spread of the Virus. To what extent, we don't know. Even if its 10%, 20% 50%, every little prevention it may be will help.
I mean can anyone argue that wearing a facial mask won't help ??

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2020, 05:58:39 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

Absolutely.  The CDC is stating what it is because there is a mask shortage and they don't want hoarding.  The science says that cloth masks help you from transmitting it if you are sick and not as much from getting it although they reduce face touching.  The CDC's guidance for health professionals is to wear a cloth mask if they have nothing else - because they are most definitely better than nothing.  If everyone wore one we'd all be protected more from each other transmitting - which is the official health messaging in japan, taiwan, korea, thailand... All countries doing way better with managing Covid than the countries that received public health messaging stating masks were a waste of time for the general public.

STUDIES

University of Cambridge 2013 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/25852580...

National Institute of Health 2013 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3785..

CDC INFO ON CLOTH MASKS

CDC instructions for simple mask.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/6/05-1468_art...
Low on actual instructions, high in scientific reference. This is their official word about cloth masks:

"Unlike NIOSH-approved N95s, facemasks are loose-fitting and provide only barrier protection against droplets, including large respiratory particles. No fit testing or seal check is necessary with facemasks. Most facemasks do not effectively filter small particles from the air and do not prevent leakage around the edge of the mask when the user inhales.The role of facemasks is for patient source control, to prevent contamination of the surrounding area when a person coughs or sneezes. 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 06:02:31 PM by totoro »

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2020, 06:00:08 PM »
In other words, the CDC strategy of preserving masks should have been to mobilize sewers right away and put the public in cloth masks with appropriate instructions on how to wear them, while saving medical masks for front line medical personnel imo.

Now we have symptomless contagious working at grocery stores and entering grocery stores and most not wearing anything.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2020, 02:04:41 AM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

One of the things I've earned from this pandemic is not to get information from either CDC or WHO. Both have proven themselves absolutely useless. They're so far behind the other news sources it's ridiculous.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2020, 08:12:36 AM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

One of the things I've earned from this pandemic is not to get information from either CDC or WHO. Both have proven themselves absolutely useless. They're so far behind the other news sources it's ridiculous.

To some degree, I think the CDC is useless.  But both the CDC and WHO are "behind" because they have to be evidenced based. They can't report the way a news source does every little idea. Their guidelines must be carefully researched and thought out.


I do often wonder how the US determines guidelines so different than the rest of the world though. Not just about this; various health guidelines that are drastically different from other developed countries.

Cranky

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2020, 08:18:51 AM »
The CDC has also had a lot of budget cuts in the last few years and is pretty short staffed. My dd talks to someone at the CDC every day now as part of her job, and she says they just seem overwhelmed.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2020, 08:41:00 AM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

One of the things I've earned from this pandemic is not to get information from either CDC or WHO. Both have proven themselves absolutely useless. They're so far behind the other news sources it's ridiculous.

To some degree, I think the CDC is useless.  But both the CDC and WHO are "behind" because they have to be evidenced based. They can't report the way a news source does every little idea. Their guidelines must be carefully researched and thought out.


I do often wonder how the US determines guidelines so different than the rest of the world though. Not just about this; various health guidelines that are drastically different from other developed countries.

Dude, we all wonder about the USA. Something in the water maybe?

jeninco

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2020, 03:44:19 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

One of the things I've earned from this pandemic is not to get information from either CDC or WHO. Both have proven themselves absolutely useless. They're so far behind the other news sources it's ridiculous.

To some degree, I think the CDC is useless.  But both the CDC and WHO are "behind" because they have to be evidenced based. They can't report the way a news source does every little idea. Their guidelines must be carefully researched and thought out.


I do often wonder how the US determines guidelines so different than the rest of the world though. Not just about this; various health guidelines that are drastically different from other developed countries.

Dude, we all wonder about the USA. Something in the water maybe?

Lead. Obviously.

renata ricotta

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2020, 04:39:58 PM »
If you are in the United States and have PPE to donate, you can find a local dropoff center, along with what they need, here: https://getusppe.org/. Especially if you're sheltering in place and can take the alternative measure of just staying in your home while production (hopefully) ramps up.

Related LA Times article, summarizing the PPE shortage for medical workers and advertising the website: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-23/coronavirus-medical-safety-gear-shortage-how-can-people-help.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2020, 05:16:45 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

One of the things I've earned from this pandemic is not to get information from either CDC or WHO. Both have proven themselves absolutely useless. They're so far behind the other news sources it's ridiculous.

To some degree, I think the CDC is useless.  But both the CDC and WHO are "behind" because they have to be evidenced based. They can't report the way a news source does every little idea. Their guidelines must be carefully researched and thought out.


I do often wonder how the US determines guidelines so different than the rest of the world though. Not just about this; various health guidelines that are drastically different from other developed countries.

Dude, we all wonder about the USA. Something in the water maybe?

Lead. Obviously.

Haha, that's got to be the answer

Miss Prim

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2020, 05:49:20 AM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

Has the CDC done anything positive in this entire situation except to label it a "pandemic" after it already spread everywhere.
Its basic logic. We know wearing masks will help prevent the spread of the Virus. To what extent, we don't know. Even if its 10%, 20% 50%, every little prevention it may be will help.
I mean can anyone argue that wearing a facial mask won't help ??

Seriously?  All of us would be screwed without the CDC!  When the Ebola outbreak was happening, we were well prepared in our hospital with plans in place should we get any Ebola patients, due to the guidelines put out by the CDC.  Also, do you realize how educated those that work at the CDC are?  They are the best of the best in this country! 

As far as masks go, if you want to wear one, go and find someone to sew a homemade one for you.  A big portion of my family are in the healthcare field including a nurse, two radiology techs, and a respiratory tech.  I am a retired Medical technologist who worked in Microbiology.  My niece who is the nurse, is pregnant.  She is scared because she can't get enough masks and other PPE.  Again, USE A HOMEMADE MASK and donate any you have to a local hospital.

                                               Miss Prim 

PVD_Kev

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #73 on: March 25, 2020, 06:08:21 AM »
Do you have N95 masks? Donate them.

Do you have a scarf, bandana, snood, construction mask, etc?  Then wear them over your mouth and nose, please!  If we all do this we WILL save lives. It is extraordinary how poor the communication and leadership has been about this.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2020, 07:26:52 AM »
Do you have N95 masks? Donate them.

Do you have a scarf, bandana, snood, construction mask, etc?  Then wear them over your mouth and nose, please!  If we all do this we WILL save lives. It is extraordinary how poor the communication and leadership has been about this.

I have a reusable half face canister mask for painting stuff and some P99 filters for it.  It doesn't seem like hospitals (at least around here) are interested in reusable masks because they're not setup to sterilize them.  Don't know if this is the same in the US.

I'm kinda confused why hospitals don't have stockpiles of the reusable canister type masks.  You can get N95 filters for them.

Abe

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2020, 09:52:35 PM »
Because the masks themselves are hard to disinfect in a thorough and timely fashion. They require a special fairly expensive sterilization process that takes about 4 hours.

LWYRUP

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #76 on: March 25, 2020, 10:15:27 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

One of the things I've earned from this pandemic is not to get information from either CDC or WHO. Both have proven themselves absolutely useless. They're so far behind the other news sources it's ridiculous.

If masks are so useless, why do the authorities in China, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan and Japan take them so seriously?

Also until like a week ago the hardware store masks weren't rated for medical use so hospitals weren't buying them.  They were basically like two separate markets.  So nobody that bought one anytime before March was actually taking them from a healthcare worker.

GreenToTheCore

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #77 on: March 26, 2020, 04:38:06 PM »
If everyone wore one we'd all be protected more from each other transmitting - which is the official health messaging in japan, taiwan, korea, thailand... All countries doing way better with managing Covid than the countries that received public health messaging stating masks were a waste of time for the general public.
Seems there is a possibility that this is a correlation, not a causation. There are a lot of other factors that play into transmission. For example, the population density. If I were surrounded in crowds all day I'd want a mask since the other person's mouth is breathing into mine. That is a different scenario than me in a building with no one else closer than 8ft.

The role of facemasks is for patient source control, to prevent contamination of the surrounding area when a person coughs or sneezes. 
This supports what I have gathered. That the facemasks help with preventing transmission through spraying (sneezing/coughing).
Normal breathing isn't what causes transmission.

STUDIES
University of Cambridge 2013 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/25852580...
National Institute of Health 2013 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3785..
The first study brings me to "Effects of LY274614, a competitive NMDA receptor antagonist, on the micturition reflex in the urethane-anaesthetized rat". I'm not sure how that relates to masks.
The second link won't go through for me. Do you have the title so I can search for it?



My stance is that I'm against normal folks taking PPE that is beneficial for our medical personnel. Especially since they don't even use it properly (still touch their face) and treating it like a cure-all/reason why they don't need to follow actually useful guidance (wash their hands)

From what I've learned, I am not endangering anyone by breathing. I would be a danger if I sneezed/coughed irresponsibly. I am not ever in crowds. Thus, I'm not wearing a mask day-day. Thoughts?

If someone wants to wear a fabric mask that they made, great! Doesn't harm anyone else. 

LWYRUP

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #78 on: March 26, 2020, 05:22:10 PM »
But no normal folks actually "took" any masks from any healthcare providers (except for people that stole them) for reasons described above. 

Now if you want to say, "it would be very generous for the general public to donate supplies" that is one thing.  But there was no taking and to characterize it like that is very bizarre, and it creates a stigma against mask wearing that will eventually need to be broken if future us wants to figure out in a few months why we got slaughtered by this and Japan / Korea / Taiwan / Singapore did not.

Keep in mind when folks in the general public wear masks, they typically reuse them and so stretch one mask for a long time.  So that one mask might go a lot farther to keep one 60 year old that just goes grocery shopping once a week healthy as opposed to if it was given to a hospital and worn once for four hours and chucked. 


I'm a red panda

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2020, 05:31:46 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

Has the CDC done anything positive in this entire situation except to label it a "pandemic" after it already spread everywhere.
Its basic logic. We know wearing masks will help prevent the spread of the Virus. To what extent, we don't know. Even if its 10%, 20% 50%, every little prevention it may be will help.
I mean can anyone argue that wearing a facial mask won't help ??

Seriously?  All of us would be screwed without the CDC!  When the Ebola outbreak was happening, we were well prepared in our hospital with plans in place should we get any Ebola patients, due to the guidelines put out by the CDC.  Also, do you realize how educated those that work at the CDC are?  They are the best of the best in this country! 


The CDC today is not the one that existed during the Ebola crisis. The current administration has dismantled it.

Also, due to my undergrad focus and my husband's biological sciences PhD,  I have 6 friends who actually work for the CDC (1 has a doctorate, the others Master's degrees). I know these are smart people. But they aren't allowed to work efficiently.  That's why I say it's mostly useless.



Kris

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #80 on: March 26, 2020, 05:33:21 PM »
If you're out in public, wear a mask so you don't infect other people. How hard can this be to understand?

It's not hard to understand.

It's also not what the CDC advises. 

Out of curiosity, are all the people on this message board who are pro-mask getting official guidance to wear masks from somewhere else?

Has the CDC done anything positive in this entire situation except to label it a "pandemic" after it already spread everywhere.
Its basic logic. We know wearing masks will help prevent the spread of the Virus. To what extent, we don't know. Even if its 10%, 20% 50%, every little prevention it may be will help.
I mean can anyone argue that wearing a facial mask won't help ??

Seriously?  All of us would be screwed without the CDC!  When the Ebola outbreak was happening, we were well prepared in our hospital with plans in place should we get any Ebola patients, due to the guidelines put out by the CDC.  Also, do you realize how educated those that work at the CDC are?  They are the best of the best in this country! 


The CDC today is not the one that existed during the Ebola crisis. The current administration has dismantled it.

Also, due to my undergrad focus and my husband's biological sciences PhD,  I have 6 friends who actually work for the CDC (1 has a doctorate, the others Master's degrees). I know these are smart people. But they aren't allowed to work efficiently.  That's why I say it's mostly useless.

The CDC is afraid to speak because our president is a fuckwit.

GreenToTheCore

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #81 on: March 27, 2020, 04:47:18 PM »
But no normal folks actually "took" any masks from any healthcare providers (except for people that stole them) for reasons described above. 
Tell that to my brother who's work buys supplies from the local stores. And to the in-home care workers.

it creates a stigma against mask wearing that will eventually need to be broken if future us wants to figure out in a few months why we got slaughtered by this and Japan / Korea / Taiwan / Singapore did not.
I don't think mask wearing is the end-all-be-all solution. I think washing our hands, coughing/sneezing responsibly, and not touching our faces are the actual actions that prevent transmission. Face masks are just one solution to the face-touching issue and currently aren't needed for the general population. They are needed for people in high risk situations.
Again, if I were in their high-density situations, I would want a mask. However, we're talking about folks in the US who are walking around in open spaces wearing a mask.

Keep in mind when folks in the general public wear masks, they typically reuse them and so stretch one mask for a long time.  So that one mask might go a lot farther to keep one 60 year old that just goes grocery shopping once a week healthy as opposed to if it was given to a hospital and worn once for four hours and chucked.
This seems a bit backwards, even ignoring the incorrect use of the mask and thus increased risk of transmission.
Situation 1: One person who isn't sick and is in a low risk transmission situation wears a mask in case they cough incorrectly in order to prevent possible transmission to one 60yo.
Situation 2: Medical personnel wears a mask while they're treating patients in a high risk transmission situation in order to keep working to save multitudes of people during their future shifts.
You think the mask in situation 1 goes a lot further than the mask in situation 2?


I'm saying that all situations aren't the same. The stance that everyone must wear a mask* is harmful (has led to shortages for people in high risk situations) and is counterproductive to teaching folks how to actually prevent transmission (wash hands, cough/sneeze responsibly).

Edit:
*Mask = mask that would have helped high-risk workers. Homemade cloth masks, go for it, it's not leading to shortages.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 04:52:20 PM by GreenToTheCore »

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #82 on: March 27, 2020, 05:27:06 PM »
I sure wish people would read the whole thread before posting repetitively the same information.

Summary of repeated advice over and over and over...

Wear a cloth mask - doesn't contribute to shortage and some efficacy - way more if everyone does it. 

Leave surgical masks for medical front-liners.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 05:29:33 PM by totoro »

Schaefer Light

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2020, 11:04:37 AM »
Because I don't want to look like some kind of germophobe wimp.  I also don't want people staring at me.

maizefolk

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2020, 11:31:27 AM »
The stance that everyone must wear a mask* is harmful (has led to shortages for people in high risk situations) and is counterproductive to teaching folks how to actually prevent transmission (wash hands, cough/sneeze responsibly).

Edit:
*Mask = mask that would have helped high-risk workers. Homemade cloth masks, go for it, it's not leading to shortages.

In the short term the stance that everyone needs to be wearing a mask is harmful because we won't have enough to go around, and need to first prioritize getting masks to those at the highest risk of exposure (health workers, grocery store clerks, etc).

In the long term arguing that mask wearing by the general public doesn't slow the spread of disease* is even more harmful, because it creates social barriers to adoption of masks (like Schaefer Light's in the post above mine) even as mask production is continuing to spin up around the world.

The great thing is that we don't actually have to choose.

We could honestly communicate that right now masks are going to those at highest risk, but that the world really is spinning up greater and greater amounts of mask production with the goal of making them widely available to everyone which will help slow the spread of this virus. <-- This is essentially the model Taiwan used and they've so far been much more successful at containing the spread of the virus than we have.

*Even if the people pushing this incorrect information are motivated by the positive goal of trying to reduce near term shortages for health workers and grocery store clerks.

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2020, 11:41:39 AM »
"This is essentially the model Taiwan used and they've so far been much more successful at containing the spread of the virus than we have."

Exactly.  Public health messaging there is wear a damn mask to protect everyone else from you (and the government provides the masks).  And you know what, if we all do it we are all protected.  Someone without a mask in public is seen as irresponsible and dangerous.   From a reasonable public health perspective - they are!  Don't have enough surgical masks? Wear a cloth one.

Davnasty

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #86 on: March 28, 2020, 11:45:50 AM »
Simple and effective. Everyone has a t-shirt.

Probably shouldn't wear this one if you're going to the bank though.


stoaX

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #87 on: March 28, 2020, 02:06:45 PM »
I have a hospital facemask that dates back several years to when I was visiting my mother in the hospital.  As far as donating it, can old used masks that have been sitting in a drawer in the bathroom really be disinfected and used by care providers?

Miss Piggy

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #88 on: March 28, 2020, 02:46:22 PM »
I have a hospital facemask that dates back several years to when I was visiting my mother in the hospital.  As far as donating it, can old used masks that have been sitting in a drawer in the bathroom really be disinfected and used by care providers?

One mask? Used? And I assume it's one of the "cheap" ones that are generally left out in boxes all over hospitals?

Don't even worry about it. Nobody would take it, and nobody would use it. It is likely expired and cannot be disinfected.

Nangirl17

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #89 on: March 28, 2020, 03:01:19 PM »
Homemade cloth masks are absolutely worth it if just to protect others.  Lots of research on that.  And they don't take away from health care workers.  I'm making some tomorrow.

https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask

I'd be curious to see the research. All the studies I read (just a couple, actually), showed they didn't change infection rates.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #90 on: March 28, 2020, 04:05:34 PM »
Nangirl - follow the thread up for links to studies. They show that they only protect against some larger droplets and not so good for aerosolized covid- but that is rarer anyway outside of a hospital setting.  What they really help with are:

1. face touching while outside of the home
2. if you are sick, giving it to someone else - and if everyone wears one that means you get protected too - plus there are asymptomatic contagious with covid

Czech Republic just made them mandatory in all public spaces.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/would-everyone-wearing-face-masks-help-us-slow-pandemic
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30134-X/fulltext

maizefolk

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2020, 06:08:55 PM »
Here's a good meta-analysis of six studies that found wearing (non-N95) masks reduced ones odds of contracting SARS by 68% which is somewhat better than the reduction in the odds of contracting SARS from washing ones hands 10x per day (55% reduction).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190272/

Obviously there hasn't been time for studies of COVID specifically, but SARS is a pretty good model (belongs to the same family of viruses, same method of spread).

Steeze

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #92 on: March 28, 2020, 07:32:27 PM »
I was in China in January and 99% of people wore masks, though it seemed like most people already had some at home. When the stores started running out the government started delivering them to property managers who were required to deliver them to people’s apartments.

It was shocking getting back to the US and no one was even aware of Covid and no one had a mask on after spending nearly two weeks wearing one. We started looking for them in stores in early February and never found any. You could still buy gloves, sanitizer, and toilet paper.

We have a box of medical masks that has been in the basement for years, maybe 6 left, leftovers from the Ebola era. We are only leaving the house for groceries once every two weeks. You can bet we will have one on when we leave, and it will be disinfected with alcohol when we get back to be reused. Our friend in China who is a doctor said that disinfecting was ok, but the mask wouldn’t be as effective afterward. He recommended UV if available to protect the cloth.

Our family in China is shocked that people don’t have masks here, and that our government would tell people not to wear them, or that they weren’t effective. Almost all of the countries over there require you to have one on if you are outside. Really I think the government response and the citizen response is shocking to them. They can buy masks at the local stores again over there now and the prices have returned to normal for standard medical masks.

You can get masks shipped here from China DHL in like 5 days last time we checked about a week ago. A box of 100 medical masks is like $100 with shipping. N95 were much more, like $5-7 ea plus shipping.

Personally, I don’t blame anyone for wearing a mask if they have them. I’m in the worst neighborhood in the worst borough in the worst city in the country. My wife has a health condition and is terrified. The mask makes her feel secure enough to go to the store, or if I wear one she feels safe when I get home.

The hospital down the street is Elmhurst Hospital they are dangerously low on PPE. The city, state, and feds are also sitting on millions of masks in their stockpiles. The Elmhurst Hospital isn’t going to even notice if I donated my 6 masks and I would be risking my wife’s life even walking over there. What they need is the city to move PPE from one hospital to another, the state to open up the stockpile to be used now instead of in the future, and the feds to get off their ass and mandate that masks be made ASAP. Short of that, to each their own. Protect your family no matter what.

Good luck to everyone - the situation is not good here. Almost 24/7 sirens now. Hope this isn’t the fate of every other city in the country - but it doesn’t seem like we are really trying to stop it either.

When I was in China they were shutting down cities, barricading roads, closing airports. If you were from that city or state you couldn’t travel anywhere. They were checking everyone’s temp just to get into a grocery store. Mandatory quarantine - no one allowed outside except to go to the store or hospital. And that was in a place 1000 miles away from Wuhan. Buses shut down, taxis shut down. Everything shutdown. The response here is underwhelming to say the least. NY is suing RI for refusing New Yorkers at the boarder. If this were Wuhan they would have military blocking the roads in and out of town and forcing everyone inside their homes under penalty of law. NYC will be worse than Wuhan in a day or two.

maizefolk

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #93 on: March 28, 2020, 07:50:44 PM »
Good luck to everyone - the situation is not good here. Almost 24/7 sirens now. Hope this isn’t the fate of every other city in the country - but it doesn’t seem like we are really trying to stop it either.

Really appreciate the post on both the situation in China and in NYC.

Hope you and your wife stay safe, Steeze.

frugalnacho

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #94 on: March 28, 2020, 11:25:25 PM »
If you are a sewer, you can join your state's group to help.

If you are a sewer, please clean yourself up.  No reason to let yourself get that disgusting just because you can't go outside.  :P

I love the English language. :)

Now we have to be “sewists “ which still sounds funny to me!

The word you all are looking for is a seamstress.

MoseyingAlong

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #95 on: March 29, 2020, 12:18:42 AM »
If you are a sewer, you can join your state's group to help.

If you are a sewer, please clean yourself up.  No reason to let yourself get that disgusting just because you can't go outside.  :P

I love the English language. :)

Now we have to be “sewists “ which still sounds funny to me!

The word you all are looking for is a seamstress.

Except a seamstress is a woman who sews. What's a non-gender specific word for someone who sews?

deborah

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #96 on: March 29, 2020, 01:39:23 AM »
tailor
« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 01:53:34 AM by deborah »

MoseyingAlong

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #97 on: March 29, 2020, 02:18:18 AM »
I think of a tailor as someone who modifies clothes to fit a specific person. Not as someone who would sew a bunch of masks.

And that ends my contribution to the foam.

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #98 on: March 29, 2020, 04:34:26 AM »
Sewer or fabric artist.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #99 on: March 29, 2020, 04:43:17 AM »
Commercially they're called machinists = people who sew stuff.