Author Topic: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???  (Read 28812 times)

Jack0Life

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This is a thought as I was out shopping the other day.
Me and the wife had  our masks ready for some quick grocery shopping. After seeing no one wearing one, we decided to take off ours too.
 1) just the weirdness factor of the only wearing one.
 2) People might be more nervous being around us if we had masks on thinking we might have something.
Now we all know there are a lot on infected people who hasn't been tested yet. The masks does a great job of preventing the infected ones spreading the virus.

If you look at most of the Asian countries, they've been doing a great job of containing the virus. I don't know what they are doing right but in these countries, its almost the NORM to be walking around with masks on.
Even China, with their billions of people, are doing to great job of containment.
I honestly think during this lock down, they government should mandate masks if you are out in public. It could only help the situation.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 12:27:07 AM by Jack0Life »

happyfeet

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2020, 08:11:14 PM »
Well I do not have any - nor would I want to deprive our health care workers of them - so not even going to try to purchase.  Just go out as little as possible, and practice distancing and hand washing.

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Jack0Life

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2020, 08:22:05 PM »
Masks are a pretty flimsy barrier, if you’re trying to avoid infection. They only cover two orifices, and most people are shit at wearing them.

They’re more effective to give to those who are sick, to contain viral shedding from any coughing or sneezing. They’ll still get some of the aerosolized droplets past the fabric of the mask, but it will the juicer parts.

If we’re going to mandate anything, it should be eye protection. I’m good at keeping my fingers out of my hands and nose in public, but goddamn if I can break the habit of poking a finger into my eyeball multiple times a day.

This is the part I was referring to since  a lot of infected people do not know they have it.

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2020, 08:24:36 PM »
I'm actually a little shocked to see the OP even ask this question.   It's been well-publicized that there's a shortage of masks and other PPE for healthcare workers, where they are most needed, so it wouldn't make sense for American shoppers to start buying up even more masks, leaving the healthcare facilities even more short handed.

I went to two supermarkets today, and I saw a person with a mask at each once, both were women shopping alone.  That was the first time I saw that in person outside of a hospital.

maizefolk

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2020, 08:34:20 PM »
Masks are a pretty flimsy barrier, if you’re trying to avoid infection. They only cover two orifices, and most people are shit at wearing them.

They’re more effective to give to those who are sick, to contain viral shedding from any coughing or sneezing. They’ll still get some of the aerosolized droplets past the fabric of the mask, but it will the juicer parts.

If we had enough masks*, having everyone wear masks would ensure that the sick people, who may not yet know they are sick, are indeed wearing masks.

Would reduce spread considerably.

Jack0Life, I suspect it is a combination of 1) people who aren't taking it seriously, 2) people who are taking it seriously but cannot get any masks because of the shortage, and 3) people who have at least a few masks but are reluctant to wear them in public because of the recent messaging about reserving masks for medical workers.

*Like many east asian countries that have been spinning up manufacturing ever since the news started coming out of China.

terran

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2020, 08:40:39 PM »
Assuming it's true that masks are more to protect other people from the infected than the other way around (seems reasonable), it makes sense that collectivist asian countries would more mask prone the the ultra individualistic US. A few years ago we visited Japan and masks where quite common. Often it seemed to almost be a fashion thing. I think I was curious and also read that some people there use them as a way to not have to worry about their facial expressions when in public.

Jack0Life

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2020, 09:05:35 PM »
Masks are a pretty flimsy barrier, if you’re trying to avoid infection. They only cover two orifices, and most people are shit at wearing them.

They’re more effective to give to those who are sick, to contain viral shedding from any coughing or sneezing. They’ll still get some of the aerosolized droplets past the fabric of the mask, but it will the juicer parts.

If we had enough masks*, having everyone wear masks would ensure that the sick people, who may not yet know they are sick, are indeed wearing masks.

Would reduce spread considerably.

Jack0Life, I suspect it is a combination of 1) people who aren't taking it seriously, 2) people who are taking it seriously but cannot get any masks because of the shortage, and 3) people who have at least a few masks but are reluctant to wear them in public because of the recent messaging about reserving masks for medical workers.

*Like many east asian countries that have been spinning up manufacturing ever since the news started coming out of China.

Yeah, I'm 100% certain that if everyone was require to wear some type of facial protection when out in public, it would reduce transmitting the virus greatly.
I suppose in Asian countries, wearing face masks are somewhat the norm so when needed, its easy for everyone to have access to masks. Not over here so much.

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When I was in China for business trips i certainly saw a lot of masks, but in theory it was to protect people against the air pollution. Except many were not the right kind (the kind you see your dentist wearing isn’t going to protect your lungs from bad air like it isn’t going to protect you from catching Covid-19). Others weren’t wearing ones properly or pulling them off all the time to eat or smoke (hah!). I wore mine any moment I wasn’t in the hotel or factory. The one I got on amazon had claimed to be N95 but wasn’t really. Real N95 look stupid and aren’t that comfortable where the one I got and the ones I saw there were cloth and so more comfortable and more easily transportable. For air pollution for a couple of business trips it was okay but definitely not up to the two of protecting you from a virus.

I suppose my point is that it is a cultural thing to wear face masks in places like China that may have nothing to do with how effective they are at protecting people against covid-19. That country had a swift and draconian shutdown to try to stem the spread, something which this country has failed lamentably at doing.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 09:09:22 PM by ysette9 »

erutio

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2020, 10:56:20 PM »

Wearing a real N95 mask makes me feel like I'm about to suffocate after about 45 seconds.  Is that normal?

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2020, 11:05:50 PM »
Homemade cloth masks are absolutely worth it if just to protect others.  Lots of research on that.  And they don't take away from health care workers.  I'm making some tomorrow.

https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask

Abe

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Re: Coronavirus- Are aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2020, 11:09:50 PM »

Wearing a real N95 mask makes me feel like I'm about to suffocate after about 45 seconds.  Is that normal?


Yes. I hate wearing them. Also, they aren’t needed for standard covid exposure. Only for intubation or suctioning afterwards. Should wear goggles though. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 11:11:32 PM by Abe »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2020, 12:51:11 AM »
Everything I read said that masks stop sick people from spreading, not protect healthy people from catching.

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2020, 12:53:29 AM »
Everything I read said that masks stop sick people from spreading, not protect healthy people from catching.
[/quote

Which if we all did, like in Taiwan, would reduce the chance of everyone from getting it and life could carry on pretty normally, even in the midst of a global pandemic.  I like to think it is not all about the individual in any event.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2020, 01:16:43 AM »
We should definitely all be wearing cloth masks. I plan on sewing some.

Reasons:
1. Effective to prevent spread of cough and sneeze
2. Social signal that there is a pandemic and we should all do our part
3. Effective reminder not to touch the face
4. Not a contradiction, unlike the government's message that masks are ineffective, yet we should not buy them because they are effective (for healthcare workers)
5. Healthcare workers need MUCH more than basic masks to do their jobs effectively, especially the parts that aerosolize the virus such as intubation
6. 3M N95 masks are extremely uncomfortable to wear for more than 5 minutes
7. T-shirt material is breathable yet effective
8. Hassle of wearing mask helps remind people that going out is not worth the trouble

In my area there is a massive effort to sew masks for the local hospital which has now requested people not sew them anymore masks!

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2020, 01:18:05 AM »
We should definitely all be wearing cloth masks. I plan on sewing some.

Reasons:
1. Effective to prevent spread of cough and sneeze
2. Social signal that there is a pandemic and we should all do our part
3. Effective reminder not to touch the face
4. Not a contradiction, unlike the government's message that masks are ineffective, yet we should not buy them because they are effective (for healthcare workers)
5. Healthcare workers need MUCH more than basic masks to do their jobs effectively, especially the parts that aerosolize the virus such as intubation
6. 3M N95 masks are extremely uncomfortable to wear for more than 5 minutes
7. T-shirt material is breathable yet effective
8. Hassle of wearing mask helps remind people that going out is not worth the trouble

In my area there is a massive effort to sew masks for the local hospital which has now requested people not sew them anymore masks!

EXACTLY

deborah

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2020, 04:10:58 AM »
I don't think it's a good idea to make your own face masks.

I've been having a bit of a discussion with someone about making and wearing face masks. If anyone is planning on making face masks themselves, please read.

I'm from Australia, where, you may remember, we've had pretty bad fires and pretty bad smoke from November last year until February, causing pretty bad respiratory problems. I was in one of those locations. Because smoke in my area was so bad, they issued N95 masks to anyone who had problems, including me. We were warned that any other masks were worse than useless because they didn't have the appropriate level of protection.

So yesterday, I get this e-mail from someone in the USA titled
Quote
We've been asked to make masks for the USA

I read through it, and she is making cloth masks for herself to filter the air while turning and sanding wood - that is, to protect from the same particles that we find in smoke from a forest fire - the type of application where anything other than the N95 masks are useless. She suggests that everyone should be making these cloth masks for their friends who are health professionals. I can't find whose been asked to make masks or why. I think that no such request has come.

So I quiz her about this, as I am somewhat disturbed that anyone would recommend making something that's useless that might encourage people to forego something that's worth wearing, in favour of something that's not. And she sends me a reply that indicates that you have to be very careful about the fabric that cloth masks are made from, because most cloth when made into a mask would be detrimental to your health. I quote her verbatim...


Quote
What is the debate about fabric choices for masks actually discussing?

You quite possibly heard this statement on the news "simply wearing a mask can make you sick." 

If you have, what are they saying exactly? Are they saying you'll get the Corona-Virus from wearing a mask? No. They are speaking vaguely, probably initially so everyone wouldn't go out and purchase all of the masks in America so we could get them to our healthcare professionals, that need them more than the rest of us.

What is really being stated is this. If you wear a mask, you can become sick because we have bacteria in our body secretions, such as sweat, saliva, and others. The bacteria we possess are alive and thus, need food to survive outside of our body their HOST.

Wearing a mask transfers oil (food) from your skin onto the fabric and when you sweat (food) it transfers onto the fabric and then you combine that with your body temperature (warm) it creates a nice cozy home for Bacteria to live all safe and comfy and if you wear that mask for a long period of time without washing with bleach or disinfecting detergents, it will grow and multiply just as the human population grows - and THIS can make you sick even though the bacteria originated from you and you were healthy before you started wearing the mask.

How can we keep from getting sick from wearing a mask then?

Have several masks ready, and wash them. If you sweat or get too hot, change more often and you shouldn't wear it all day long. You should only wear a mask when needed.

When should I wear a mask?

1) If you are sick and within a small room with poor airflow for a period of time, so if you cough, sneeze or talk, the virus (which becomes airborne) doesn't fly out of your mouth and land on those around you.

2) When you go out shopping and there are others walking in front of you that are sick with any virus. If they cough, the virus remains in the air and you walk through that air and the virus lands on you. IF it gets to any mucous membrane (anywhere your body secrets bodily fluids of any kind) it then assumes you as its HOST and you become ill.

The COVID-19 Virus as described by scientists seems to have wings and remains airborne longer than other Coronaviruses which is in part why it is more contagious than other flu viruses.

Bacteria vs a Virus = 2 different organisms.

Bacteria is alive and Viruses are not.

What does that mean? If a bacteria gets on the mask it will create more bacteria even without YOU it's HOST.

Viruses are not considered alive because they require YOU its HOST to remain alive. It is actually your body trying to attack the virus that is what you are sick with. Your Immune response, similar to allergies or autoimmune.

I will stop here on the science of bacteria and viruses, and you can learn more should you want, from other sources teaching Biology.

Which fabric is best for masks?
Synthetics. (manmade fiber content fabric) Such as polyester or nylon.

Why not cotton?
Cotton, silk, and wool are all-natural fibers, each was once alive and contains cellulose which is a form of sugar.

Why is that important?
Bacteria is a living organism that needs to eat to stay alive and cellulose is a food.

How about PUL or Baby Diaper Cover fabric?
No.
Why? Because it is coated with Polyurethane and will create condensation and with your body's heat, increase bacteria growth. It may also block air and not allow you to get enough Oxygen.

Water repellant or resistant fabrics explained.
When I filmed my video I talked about the fact that I chose to use a water-repellant fabric because it would be less likely to allow bacteria growth as it resists the moisture that your breath creates in the mask.

That said, I also explained that once you wash this fabric in HOT WATER which you should do, to kill any Bacteria that has begun growing on the mask and to wash off any viruses that are laying in wait, for you to touch it and then touch any mucus membrane. Well, once you wash these fabrics, you wash off the additive that was sprayed on to the fabric by the manufacturer to make it repel water or moisture.

These sprays are used for home decorating where fabrics will be close to windows, or water sources caused by showers, or rain from the outside mixing with the heat from your homes which creates condensation on mirrors and windows and a perfect environment for bacteria to grow.

What about Flannel?
Flannel, Minky, Velvet and any other fabric that has a hair-like surface will release small fibers into the air, which is why it's so messy to sew with as you cut it it breaks apart. When wearing it over your face, small fibers can enter the airway and end up in your lungs. Do not use it as a filter because it is NOT a filter and will increase your body temperature and cause you to sweat which will help feed bacteria.

What does a mask need to be a good mask?

1) Cool, lightweight fabric to reduce the chance of increased sweating.
2) Less Natural fiber, so bacteria have less to feed on. 50/50 Polyester to cotton or higher content of polyester to cotton. In other words, more polyester in the fabric content than cotton is better.
3) An air filter (Stick and Tear a product she sells) that is not too dense that it stops airflow but fine enough to block the viruses from entering between the spaces on the fibers as the fabric is woven and has gaps between the threads/fibers that are small openings for the viruses to get pulled into from a person inhaling as they breathe.
4) Machine washable in HOT water and able to withstand bleach.
5) A soft fabric so it doesn't cause abrasions on the skin and cause itching or a desire to move the mask while wearing it.
6) A fast, method of putting it on, so you are more likely to put it on. Especially wearing rubber gloves. This is why I didn't design mine with strings to tie and ties or elastic that wraps around a person's head can slip because of the shape of the person's head.
7) Elastic - not too wide or too narrow depending on the wearer. Not Round elastic as it will roll and pinch the skin.
8) A tight seal, or form that doesn't have large gaps that act as open doors along the sides (cheeks), the top (nose) or bottom (chin) for any virus to be pulled into as the person breathes or inhales.

 

I hope this helps you make a good choice for the fabric you use to make a mask - it is better to make a mask that will end up being used. If it doesn't pass then it will be thrown away or worse, may make someone sick.


My take is that you need to be very very careful that you make a mask that won't make you sick. She made her masks out of a product she sells (as a filter) and a water repellant fabric (which she now says isn't the best choice). And she's saying that most other fabrics are not the best choice either because they could cause you to get sick.

Cranky

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2020, 04:36:24 AM »
The best designs that I’ve seen have basically a pocket for filtering material - folded paper towels, vacuum cleaner bag section. People are having trouble finding elastic, though.

I’m going to experiment with making some, because I’ve got plenty of fabric and elastic, but I’m only going out once/week to the grocery store anyway.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2020, 05:47:22 AM »
I'm guessing they bowed to peer pressure, like you did.

Jack0Life

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2020, 09:19:56 AM »
We should definitely all be wearing cloth masks. I plan on sewing some.

Reasons:
1. Effective to prevent spread of cough and sneeze
2. Social signal that there is a pandemic and we should all do our part
3. Effective reminder not to touch the face
4. Not a contradiction, unlike the government's message that masks are ineffective, yet we should not buy them because they are effective (for healthcare workers)
5. Healthcare workers need MUCH more than basic masks to do their jobs effectively, especially the parts that aerosolize the virus such as intubation
6. 3M N95 masks are extremely uncomfortable to wear for more than 5 minutes
7. T-shirt material is breathable yet effective
8. Hassle of wearing mask helps remind people that going out is not worth the trouble

In my area there is a massive effort to sew masks for the local hospital which has now requested people not sew them anymore masks!

Good point there.
We have cloth facial masks. A bit embarrass to wear them cause no are wearing any.

fasteddie911

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2020, 11:10:02 AM »
I've been wondering about this lately too.  Officials say masks don't prevent infection but certainly it must if healthcare workers are wearing it. I think the message is that way so that people don't start hoarding.  Of course the supply should be prioritized for healthcare workers or others in close contact with potential cases. But ideally if there were unlimited supply of masks, especially the n95's, everyone should be wearing them.  Either to prevent catching it or spreading it.  They should be instructed on how use them properly.  Maybe even eyewear should be worn too.  If everyone were "self-contained" like this the economy and business-as-usual could possibly continue to a certain extent.

rantk81

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2020, 11:15:20 AM »
This mask shortage was evident MONTHS ago.  Back in January, when the news reports were first surfacing about this issue, I attempted to buy masks on all the usual suspects (amazon, target, hardware stores, etc.) Ever since back then, they've been completely unavailable.  It's no surprise that the health care workers can't even get them!  Supply chain FAIL.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2020, 11:27:56 AM »
Because it's more important to me that health care workers have access to them than that I wear one.  Why are YOU taking a mask that a health care worker might need once they run out of N95?  (Or could wear over N95 to keep it clean I've heard?)

I've been staying home as much as possible (day 11 )other than doctor visits so I don't really need them because I'm not going out and because my chances of having it (and thus passing it on to others, which is what the masks prevent) at this point are unlikely.
I doubt I could get one anyways because they're unavailable.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 12:11:45 PM by Captain FIRE »

hops

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2020, 11:30:47 AM »
A healthy neighbor of ours has been wearing masks since January. My wife's hospital is running out of PPE and this schmuck is wearing masks to walk to his mailbox or retrieve things from his shed.

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2020, 11:33:07 AM »
I don’t know how to sew and can’t purchase masks. Even if I could, I would donate them to my young cousin who is a nurse and to my friends who are nurses and physicians. There’s such a shortage in my region that hospitals are asking for donations of unused PPE from the community.

renata ricotta

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2020, 11:36:42 AM »
If you have masks, please call your local hospital and ask how you can donate them. Then, stay at home as much as humanly possible -- no grocery runs for a nice-to-have item, no to-go coffee stops, only truly necessary public encounters.

A doctor friend of mine just stopped by my apartment for a curbside pickup of half a box of exam gloves I had in the back of my cleaning closet. PPE is needed that badly. I've heard that a local hospital recently told their front-line medical staff they are responsible for finding their own face masks.

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2020, 04:50:28 PM »
Absolutely the general public should not be wearing medical grade face masks - front line workers need them!  Donate yours.

Absolutely people should be sewing and wearing cloth masks.  In the worry that we'd encourage hoarding we got the public health messaging wrong.  What do you think nurses and doctors wore before mass produced masks were made?  Cloth masks.  You know why?  Because they are better than nothing.  They stop you from transmitting in a significant way, less so for contracting, and they keep you from touching your face while you are out.

And they are really easy to make.  Little harder if you want a filter pocket. 

https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2020, 05:16:14 PM »
I don’t know how to sew and can’t purchase masks. Even if I could, I would donate them to my young cousin who is a nurse and to my friends who are nurses and physicians. There’s such a shortage in my region that hospitals are asking for donations of unused PPE from the community.

Even a scarf wrapped around your mouth and nose will stop droplets. That and social distancing.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2020, 05:21:57 PM »
Absolutely the general public should not be wearing medical grade face masks - front line workers need them!  Donate yours.

Absolutely people should be sewing and wearing cloth masks.  In the worry that we'd encourage hoarding we got the public health messaging wrong.  What do you think nurses and doctors wore before mass produced masks were made?  Cloth masks.  You know why?  Because they are better than nothing.  They stop you from transmitting in a significant way, less so for contracting, and they keep you from touching your face while you are out.

And they are really easy to make.  Little harder if you want a filter pocket. 

https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask

Don't be like that. People have the right to protect themselves, and it's actually not the fault of the general public that have masks that the medical field is running out. I got two masks (2!) from a builder friend of mine, just before the SHTF. He can't get any for work anymore. This is a supply issue. I'm not giving up my masks. I have elderly neighbours, and I'll be going out to get them what they need. I have family to take care of. I'm not sacrificing what little protection I have for all of those people, should it be required, because the government hasn't handled it's own issues.

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2020, 05:39:15 PM »
We just have a different perspective.  The level of risk in getting groceries vs. working with covid patients in ICU is substantially different.  If doctors don't have PPE it is not their fault.  If government didn't prepare it is my duty to assist to my ability to those who are working on the front line as their skill set saves lives, multiple lives.  I also shop for elderly neighbours and my husband is a pharmacist with zero access to PPE at the moment.  I'm sewing him masks too because I know that he is at less risk of aerosolized droplets. 

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2020, 06:05:00 PM »
We just have a different perspective.  The level of risk in getting groceries vs. working with covid patients in ICU is substantially different.  If doctors don't have PPE it is not their fault.  If government didn't prepare it is my duty to assist to my ability to those who are working on the front line as their skill set saves lives, multiple lives.  I also shop for elderly neighbours and my husband is a pharmacist with zero access to PPE at the moment.  I'm sewing him masks too because I know that he is at less risk of aerosolized droplets.

To be fair, medical staff in NZ still have PPE, so they don't need mine right now. And I guess that I see going out in the community so that others don't have to as "front line". We haven't got to that stage yet, but we will. I know how to fit a mask properly, and I won't be wasting them.

JLE1990

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2020, 06:13:05 PM »
Well the reason you don't see people wearing masks is because they do not have any scientific ability to protect you from the virus. They ONLY work to prevent the spread of the virus to other people once you have been infected but you could just as easily where a t-shirt or cover your mouth if you cough, and should get a quarantined area as soon as possible. If someone sneezes on you, a mask will do absolutely nothing without other PPE. Those other things are face shields and full body covers. Hospitals are running out of masks because of the mass panic buys, the general public is mostly misinformed and is unaware of how contagious the virus is; thankfully, otherwise we would be see people rushing to the store to buy all the face shields/goggles along with the other idiotic panic buys.

Here is a quote direct from the CDC:
Quote
The role of facemasks is for patient source control, to prevent contamination of the surrounding area when a person coughs or sneezes.  Patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear a facemask until they are isolated in a hospital or at home. The patient does not need to wear a facemask while isolated.
What is a Surgical N95 respirator and who needs to wear it?
A surgical N95 (also referred as a medical respirator) is recommended only for use by healthcare personnel (HCP) who need protection from both airborne and fluid hazards (e.g., splashes, sprays).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

I would also point out it's highly unlikely whatever material you are sewing masks with, is actually filtering out the microscopic droplets that contain COVID. It is very common in disasters that people donate all kinds of things, trying to help, but many of those things are useless and actually bog down the effective donations. If the material you are creating the masks out of, does not filter things down to .3 microns(verrrry unlikely you can create such a thing by hand) then you are just wasting your time and should do more research to try and help.

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2020, 06:48:00 PM »
Well the reason you don't see people wearing masks is because they do not have any scientific ability to protect you from the virus. They ONLY work to prevent the spread of the virus to other people once you have been infected but you could just as easily where a t-shirt or cover your mouth if you cough, and should get a quarantined area as soon as possible. If someone sneezes on you, a mask will do absolutely nothing without other PPE. Those other things are face shields and full body covers. Hospitals are running out of masks because of the mass panic buys, the general public is mostly misinformed and is unaware of how contagious the virus is; thankfully, otherwise we would be see people rushing to the store to buy all the face shields/goggles along with the other idiotic panic buys.

Here is a quote direct from the CDC:
Quote
The role of facemasks is for patient source control, to prevent contamination of the surrounding area when a person coughs or sneezes.  Patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear a facemask until they are isolated in a hospital or at home. The patient does not need to wear a facemask while isolated.
What is a Surgical N95 respirator and who needs to wear it?
A surgical N95 (also referred as a medical respirator) is recommended only for use by healthcare personnel (HCP) who need protection from both airborne and fluid hazards (e.g., splashes, sprays).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

I would also point out it's highly unlikely whatever material you are sewing masks with, is actually filtering out the microscopic droplets that contain COVID. It is very common in disasters that people donate all kinds of things, trying to help, but many of those things are useless and actually bog down the effective donations. If the material you are creating the masks out of, does not filter things down to .3 microns(verrrry unlikely you can create such a thing by hand) then you are just wasting your time and should do more research to try and help.

Again, it is not all about you.  If everyone wore cloth masks we'd cut down everyone's risk because IT IS SOMEWHAT EFFECTIVE AT PREVENTING TRANSMISSION FROM YOU!  And you could be symptom less as many with this highly contagious virus are and we have no widespread testing where I am - how about you?  It is absolutely a socially responsible thing to do for others, and our grocery store workers should be getting them from the public. 

Do you know what nurses and doctors wore before mass-produced surgical masks?  Yes, cloth masks.  Please read the linked information on the instructable I posted before.  I'm a lawyer who owned my own firm, with an extensive background in research, with no sewing skills, and I'm sewing them precisely because I have read the research.  This is one of the reasons why Asia has a lower transmission rate IMO - every little bit helps.  And the CDC site says cloth masks are better than nothing.  At this point, I'll take that.

Cranky

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2020, 07:29:56 PM »
Hospitals are ASKNG for sewn masks and gowns. It’s embarrassing that it has come to this and we’re a long way from peak. The government has really screwed up on this one.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2020, 07:44:02 PM »
The little paper masks are all gone, but I had no problem buying one of the 3M reusable canister masks and P99 filters at our local home depot the Friday before last.  (I was buying it for a spray painting project I was hoping to work on - wasn't really thinking about it as a method of disease control/prevention).

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2020, 07:50:36 PM »
I don’t know how to sew and can’t purchase masks. Even if I could, I would donate them to my young cousin who is a nurse and to my friends who are nurses and physicians. There’s such a shortage in my region that hospitals are asking for donations of unused PPE from the community.

Even a scarf wrapped around your mouth and nose will stop droplets. That and social distancing.

I’ve been social distancing since grocery shopping last Tuesday. I do have a couple of polyester scarves that could be put to good use on the next grocery run.

lutorm

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2020, 08:15:38 PM »
Again, it is not all about you.  If everyone wore cloth masks we'd cut down everyone's risk because IT IS SOMEWHAT EFFECTIVE AT PREVENTING TRANSMISSION FROM YOU!  And you could be symptom less as many with this highly contagious virus are and we have no widespread testing where I am - how about you?  It is absolutely a socially responsible thing to do for others, and our grocery store workers should be getting them from the public. 
Agreed. This article in the NYT today argued that the point of making everyone wear masks is twofold: First, as you say, you could be asymptomatic but infectious. But second, and this was a new point for me: By making everyone wear them, you remove the stigma, which otherwise may cause people who are sick to not wear them because they don't want to stand out.

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2020, 09:39:33 PM »

I’ve been social distancing since grocery shopping last Tuesday. I do have a couple of polyester scarves that could be put to good use on the next grocery run.
[/quote]

Wear it.  Absolutely wear it.

Jack0Life

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2020, 10:48:50 PM »
Well the reason you don't see people wearing masks is because they do not have any scientific ability to protect you from the virus. They ONLY work to prevent the spread of the virus to other people once you have been infected but you could just as easily where a t-shirt or cover your mouth if you cough, and should get a quarantined area as soon as possible. If someone sneezes on you, a mask will do absolutely nothing without other PPE. Those other things are face shields and full body covers. Hospitals are running out of masks because of the mass panic buys, the general public is mostly misinformed and is unaware of how contagious the virus is; thankfully, otherwise we would be see people rushing to the store to buy all the face shields/goggles along with the other idiotic panic buys.

Here is a quote direct from the CDC:
Quote
The role of facemasks is for patient source control, to prevent contamination of the surrounding area when a person coughs or sneezes.  Patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear a facemask until they are isolated in a hospital or at home. The patient does not need to wear a facemask while isolated.
What is a Surgical N95 respirator and who needs to wear it?
A surgical N95 (also referred as a medical respirator) is recommended only for use by healthcare personnel (HCP) who need protection from both airborne and fluid hazards (e.g., splashes, sprays).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

I would also point out it's highly unlikely whatever material you are sewing masks with, is actually filtering out the microscopic droplets that contain COVID. It is very common in disasters that people donate all kinds of things, trying to help, but many of those things are useless and actually bog down the effective donations. If the material you are creating the masks out of, does not filter things down to .3 microns(verrrry unlikely you can create such a thing by hand) then you are just wasting your time and should do more research to try and help.

Again, it is not all about you.  If everyone wore cloth masks we'd cut down everyone's risk because IT IS SOMEWHAT EFFECTIVE AT PREVENTING TRANSMISSION FROM YOU!  And you could be symptom less as many with this highly contagious virus are and we have no widespread testing where I am - how about you?  It is absolutely a socially responsible thing to do for others, and our grocery store workers should be getting them from the public. 

Do you know what nurses and doctors wore before mass-produced surgical masks?  Yes, cloth masks.  Please read the linked information on the instructable I posted before.  I'm a lawyer who owned my own firm, with an extensive background in research, with no sewing skills, and I'm sewing them precisely because I have read the research.  This is one of the reasons why Asia has a lower transmission rate IMO - every little bit helps.  And the CDC site says cloth masks are better than nothing.  At this point, I'll take that.

I'm glad someone else share my point of view.
Even if its not 100% protection, 20%, 40% whatever the % is will certainly help.

Jack0Life

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2020, 10:52:49 PM »
Again, it is not all about you.  If everyone wore cloth masks we'd cut down everyone's risk because IT IS SOMEWHAT EFFECTIVE AT PREVENTING TRANSMISSION FROM YOU!  And you could be symptom less as many with this highly contagious virus are and we have no widespread testing where I am - how about you?  It is absolutely a socially responsible thing to do for others, and our grocery store workers should be getting them from the public. 
Agreed. This article in the NYT today argued that the point of making everyone wear masks is twofold: First, as you say, you could be asymptomatic but infectious. But second, and this was a new point for me: By making everyone wear them, you remove the stigma, which otherwise may cause people who are sick to not wear them because they don't want to stand out.

Very good point.
How hard is it for a company to mass produce these N95 masks and the government start making them available and mandate wearing them.
I mean we're not talking about test kits here. Its basically paper or cloth, whatever its made from.

ysette9

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2020, 10:57:21 PM »
I was just watching a YouTube documentary on Wuhan. The region went from making 30k N95 masks a day to 300k. Surely we can do similarly?

DHMO

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2020, 02:32:41 AM »
Masks are supposed to be changed every few hours to maintain effectiveness. Are we ready to supply enough masks for everyone to wear a new one every time they make a trip in public, and more than one if they're out for a long time?

Even medical providers are trying to stretch the usable life of the masks. Here's the current guidance for our local ambulance service:
"With that said, every provider will wear an N95 (green cup style mask) on EVERY CALL ALONG WITH A SURGICAL MASK ON TOP of that. Size yourself for an appropriate green cup style N95 mask so you know what size you need. After non-COVID related calls, you will KEEP the N95 and DISCARD the surgical mask. On the next call, you will wear the SAME N95 and a NEW surgical mask on top of that. N95s are reusable up to a max of 5 times (5 calls) as per CDC. After any COVID related calls, you are to discard the N95 as well as the surgical mask (even if the N95 hasn’t been worn for 5 times). A COVID related call is any call that you would need to inform the chief about or write a special report about. If it sounds like COVID, but you get there and it’s not, then you may reuse the N95 mask for the next call."

totoro

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2020, 05:19:09 AM »
It appears to me you have missed the commentary on leaving medical masks for medical workers and getting people to wear cloth masks at the grocery store and essential  workers who have no access to masks being given cloth masks.  And yes, Taiwan which has successfully managed the virus, provides masks to the public and has rules for this. No we in North America can’t do this because of the shortage.  Wear a cloth mask if you have to go out for reasons stated above.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2020, 08:27:46 AM »
That's awesome y'all have time to sew masks.  I did forward that on to my retired mom (who does not live nearby) a few days ago that there may be a need for them, in case she wanted to look into making them to help out.

But I have a 3 year old, a full-time job, a husband with a full-time job, and I'm 8 months pregnant.  Ain't no way I'm finding time for a leisure activity such as sewing in there.  It also seems pretty unrealistic and frankly, privileged, to expect most people to have the time PLUS skills PLUS resources (because it's not like I have elastic sitting around my house, or probably the right type of fabric) to do so.

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2020, 08:36:14 AM »
That's awesome y'all have time to sew masks.  I did forward that on to my retired mom (who does not live nearby) a few days ago that there may be a need for them, in case she wanted to look into making them to help out.

But I have a 3 year old, a full-time job, a husband with a full-time job, and I'm 8 months pregnant.  Ain't no way I'm finding time for a leisure activity such as sewing in there.  It also seems pretty unrealistic and frankly, privileged, to expect most people to have the time PLUS skills PLUS resources (because it's not like I have elastic sitting around my house, or probably the right type of fabric) to do so.

Do you have a scarf you can tie over your face? I'm still working full-time, don't know how to sew, and wouldn't be able to get fabric since non-essential businesses are shutting down in my state. I plan to wear a polyester scarf that I can pull up and tie over my face when I go out for groceries. I figure it's at least something.

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2020, 08:44:30 AM »
It pisses me off when I see people out there with masks. I’ll give an exception to elders or other high risk groups but for young people like myself to be wearing one is shameful. Both healthcare and construction workers are having a hard time getting any of them them because other people panic and buy them out.  It disrupts those who actually need them. Instead they’re used to prevent what to most people is equivalent to the flu.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2020, 08:49:01 AM »
I have a half face mask for painting that takes those 3M clip on canisters.  Should I give this to the hospital?  It seems like they're only set up to use the disposable face masks and don't have the ability to clean reusable ones.

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2020, 08:58:35 AM »
It pisses me off when I see people out there with masks. I’ll give an exception to elders or other high risk groups but for young people like myself to be wearing one is shameful. Both healthcare and construction workers are having a hard time getting any of them them because other people panic and buy them out.  It disrupts those who actually need them. Instead they’re used to prevent what to most people is equivalent to the flu.

Why does it piss you off?

I'm a front line hospital worker.  I've been going into work everyday for the past few weeks knowing full well I may not have the PPE for myself this day, yet may be called upon to care for a patient that may be sick with coronavirus.  However, someone using a mask outside is not the reason the hospitals are running low.  Why would one be pissed off at others for protecting themselves or others?  Maybe the young person you see wearing a mask is taking care of an elderly person or immunocompromised person at home.  Maybe the person wearing a mask is another frontline healthcare worker, and has been exposed to many sick patients and knows they are high risk for being a transmitter of the virus for a week before feeling symptoms.


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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2020, 11:01:14 AM »
I went to Old People Hour at the grocery store this morning. Most shoppers were wearing gloves and probably a third had some kind of mask.

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Re: Coronavirus- Why aren't more American wearing masks out in public ???
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2020, 11:35:08 AM »
There's a grassroots movement to make sure fabric masks get into the hands of the people that need them. https://www.facebook.com/search/groups/?q=face%20mask%20warriors&epa=SERP_TAB



If you are a sewer, you can join your state's group to help.