Contemplating Big Life Change; Am I Crazy?; Update #35

[Petunia 100]

What big life change would that be?  I am contemplating selling my house in a city of 200k people in California, resigning my job of 11 years where I earn 55k plus employer paid health insurance, and moving 3.5 hours away just outside of a small mountain town of 2k people, with no job. 

Why would I move there?  My SO "owns" some acreage (100+) with a few small simple homes on the property.  I say "owns" because the property is actually owned by a small C corp which is in a family trust.  SO is the majority shareholder, but not the only shareholder.   Currently, there is a caretaker on the property who has sold off equipment and timber, pocketing the cash.  SO wants him gone, which is not so easy to do from long distance, because the guy doesn't want to leave.  SO is thinking he needs to spend significant time there to get the place back on track.  He will then need to decide to keep or sell the property.   Currently, SO lives with me in my house and has a job in my town.  SO sold his house in a third town and moved here to be with me.   We started dating 7 years ago and have lived together for the last 2.

If we move to the property, we will move into the caretaker's house.  It is small and simple (2/1, about 900 sq ft), but has a wrap-around deck and is situated about 100 ft from a large pond.  Large enough that there is a dock and you can take a rowboat out to the center and fish.  The surroundings are absolutely beautiful.   We would not need to pay any rent, but would need to pay for electric and of course food.  So we can live there rather inexpensively.

I am currently 49 years old.   My youngest child will turn 21 next month and I expect will be flying the nest within the next year or so.  My oldest child lives here with her husband.  They pay rent and are saving to buy their own house.  They plan to do that within a year.  I expect I will net 40 - 60k from selling my house.   I do not have any debt other than my mortgage, which of course would be gone if I sold my house.  I have a 2013 Ford Focus with only 37k miles on the odometer, so I won't need to replace that anytime soon.

I have 210k in tax deferred accounts, another 30k in my Roth, no taxable investment account.  So I don't have enough to FIRE, but I think if I just leave this alone and let it keep growing, by the time I hit SS age, it will be adequate.
   
As far as potential jobs go, there is a town of 10k people 15 miles to the south.  It is about a 30 minute drive, because it is a twisty turny mountain road to that town.  There is a town of 14k people 19 miles to the west.  That is about 40 minutes away, because it is on a different twisty turny mountain road.   Then there are various 1k and 2k mountain towns scattered about.   So there are some job opportunities, but not a whole lot.  Realistically, I will end up cashiering at Wal-Mart (10k town) or Target (14k town).   Even at minimum wage, I think 16 - 20 hours per week will be enough to cover my expenses.   That leaves me with a lot of free time to do as I please.

If we are happy living up there, we can certainly stay.  If we aren't, we can move on.

I have been wanting to semi-retire once my youngest leaves home.  For years, I have been thinking I would sell my house and move to Reno, NV, buy a small condo, and find a part-time job.  I will admit I was thinking accounts payable or accounts receivable, not cashiering at Wal-Mart.  I'm not knocking that sort of work;  it's just not very mentally stimulating.

This is potentially a big change, so I am soliciting opinions.

[totoro]

I'm a bit younger than you and just retired and in Canada this will affect what I receive in government benefits at 60 or 65.  Will your reduced income affect your SS benefits and have you factored this into the equation?

It seems like you will be getting into a living situation which is the equivalent of a paid-off house.  That removes a lot of overhead which is great!

Have you considered keeping the home you have and renting it out if it is in a high appreciation area?  It is the equivalent of a pension plan, although it will likely raise your taxable income with not much in the way of extra cash flow until it is paid off.  And it gives you a way back to your town if you hate living in the mountains.

Finally, if you have accounting/bookkeeping experience there is always a demand for that and a lot of people are doing it remotely.  I had someone managing my quickbooks online.  Where I am this pays $25/hour.

In any event, I like your plan to semi-retire.  I'm gradually easing into it and I notice a big difference - lots of freedom.

[Petunia 100]

I'm a bit younger than you and just retired and in Canada this will affect what I receive in government benefits at 60 or 65.  Will your reduced income affect your SS benefits and have you factored this into the equation?

Yes, it will affect my eventual SS benefits.  However, I am planning on a minimal amount.

It seems like you will be getting into a living situation which is the equivalent of a paid-off house.  That removes a lot of overhead which is great!

That's the really exciting part to me; no longer responsible to come up with much money at all.  :)

Have you considered keeping the home you have and renting it out if it is in a high appreciation area?  It is the equivalent of a pension plan, although it will likely raise your taxable income with not much in the way of extra cash flow until it is paid off.  And it gives you a way back to your town if you hate living in the mountains.

It's a good idea, but it's not something I want to do. :)

Finally, if you have accounting/bookkeeping experience there is always a demand for that and a lot of people are doing it remotely.  I had someone managing my quickbooks online.  Where I am this pays $25/hour.

That is the line of work I am in now and would certainly try to find some part-time.   I just don't want to count on it.

In any event, I like your plan to semi-retire.  I'm gradually easing into it and I notice a big difference - lots of freedom.

Thanks, that makes me feel better.  :)   I would love to hear more details about your semi-retirement, if you are willing to share.

[Much Fishing to Do]

"I expect I will net 40 - 60k from selling my house."...What do you think your total expenses will be a month? ... Couldn't Half of the electric plus your own food could be covered by your house profit for a decade? I guess what I'm saying is I don't even see the need for a job other than one you want if your life there will be as simple as it sounds.  I know there's health care and transportation (gas and eventual car replacement, etc,)  so just wondering what that budget blows up to when considering everything. 

I think remotely working with your accounting experience is the way to go.  You could EXTREMELY underbid your competition on rate and still come out much better than a half-hour commute to a cashiers job (i.e. I think you should "count on it", just maybe not at the same rate as currently making).  This is something you  can start working on now as it doesn't matter where you live or if you move.

[gaja]

Will you be happy in a relatively isolated place, or do you need to see people occasionally? If you are happy in your own company, working remotely is a good opportunity. If there is a decent internet connection, there are plenty of jobs online where you can make enough to cover your costs. With fishing, and maybe hunting(?), rights, opportunities for foraging and growing stuff, your food bill should be pretty low.

Have you and your SO agreed on all the financial details? Do you have shared economy, or are you clear on how you are going to split expences (and income)? If there is some work included in taking care of the property; are you expected to share that workload, even though you don't own anything?

[RobFIRE]

Well, such a lifestyle (living in a semi-isolated place) would not be for me. Though it sounds like you've understood what that lifestyle is likely to be like, so must want that kind of setup.

In terms of your financial position, with housing provided and a relatively self-sufficient lifestyle your living expenses should only be the basics, so yes, as you say even two days a week at minimum wage would cover it. If you could pick up some remote-based work at a higher rate you'd have money to spare / could choose to work even less. If that sort of work takes a while to sort out you could do temporary minimum wage work in the interim, which I'd think could be tolerable for a few months.

In the US though isn't there the ongoing concern over having health insurance, or would working part time include full health insurance, or are you able to have a basic level of cover at a cheap rate? Other than that consideration, I'd say you're in the position to go for it.

[Petunia 100]

"I expect I will net 40 - 60k from selling my house."...What do you think your total expenses will be a month? ... Couldn't Half of the electric plus your own food could be covered by your house profit for a decade? I guess what I'm saying is I don't even see the need for a job other than one you want if your life there will be as simple as it sounds.  I know there's health care and transportation (gas and eventual car replacement, etc,)  so just wondering what that budget blows up to when considering everything. 

Oh yes, I could live off the house proceeds for quite awhile.  But if I deplete those, then decide I want to move, I will have a bit of a cash crunch.    Still, you are right that if it takes a little time to find a job, all will not be lost. 

I think remotely working with your accounting experience is the way to go.  You could EXTREMELY underbid your competition on rate and still come out much better than a half-hour commute to a cashiers job (i.e. I think you should "count on it", just maybe not at the same rate as currently making).  This is something you  can start working on now as it doesn't matter where you live or if you move.

I do get unsolicited offers from time to time now,  which I mostly turn away due to time constraints.  (I do currently have one side job, but that will ending as the organization has made a decision to dissolve.) You are right that I could be working on building this up now.

[mozar]

Could you live on 12k a year? If you get to a 300k stache, then you're there.

[Petunia 100]

Will you be happy in a relatively isolated place, or do you need to see people occasionally? If you are happy in your own company, working remotely is a good opportunity. If there is a decent internet connection, there are plenty of jobs online where you can make enough to cover your costs. With fishing, and maybe hunting(?), rights, opportunities for foraging and growing stuff, your food bill should be pretty low.

There is internet available, but I am told it is spotty. 

Have you and your SO agreed on all the financial details? Do you have shared economy, or are you clear on how you are going to split expences (and income)? If there is some work included in taking care of the property; are you expected to share that workload, even though you don't own anything?

We split joint expenses but do not share income.  He will be taking care of the property and receiving a small stipend from the corporation for doing so.  He also has some passive income, some savings, and no debt.  I do not plan to clear any timber. :)

[Petunia 100]

Well, such a lifestyle (living in a semi-isolated place) would not be for me. Though it sounds like you've understood what that lifestyle is likely to be like, so must want that kind of setup.

In terms of your financial position, with housing provided and a relatively self-sufficient lifestyle your living expenses should only be the basics, so yes, as you say even two days a week at minimum wage would cover it. If you could pick up some remote-based work at a higher rate you'd have money to spare / could choose to work even less. If that sort of work takes a while to sort out you could do temporary minimum wage work in the interim, which I'd think could be tolerable for a few months.

In the US though isn't there the ongoing concern over having health insurance, or would working part time include full health insurance, or are you able to have a basic level of cover at a cheap rate? Other than that consideration, I'd say you're in the position to go for it.

Most part-time jobs do not offer health insurance.  I would obtain my health insurance through the exchange.  It goes by income, not assets.  So I'm almost certain I would qualify for free insurance, "Medi-Cal" in California.   If I don't qualify for free, I should qualify for a very large Premium Tax Credit, making my out-of-pocket cost very low. 

[Petunia 100]

Could you live on 12k a year? If you get to a 300k stache, then you're there.

Living on SO's property, yes, I believe I can live quite comfortably on 12k per year.  I suppose that is really my concern.  If I don't like living there and wish to move on, no, I could not live comfortably on 12k per year.   So I don't want that 12k to come from savings/investments, I want to leave them alone and let them keep growing.

[accolay]

Doesn't sound crazy to me, only depends on your money comfort level. Without knowing more intricate details of the rest of your economic house, I can't say if I'd do it or not. Either way, it's very nice to have choice.

[Petunia 100]

Doesn't sound crazy to me, only depends on your money comfort level. Without knowing more intricate details of the rest of your economic house, I can't say if I'd do it or not. Either way, it's very nice to have choice.

What would you like to know?

[GoConfidently]

Are the other family members involved in the trust on board with you living there rent free? What happens if your SO becomes ill? Will you be expected to take over his duties as caretaker, or move out? Have you both drawn up wills and are you provided for in case of his death? I only bring this up because you're not married and families + money have a way of getting messy quick. Does your SO work, or will caretaking be his only job? Will he resent you only paying utilities and food costs for yourself while he handles the property on his own? Do you have an emergency account large enough to allow you to leave without dipping into investments if you hate it? And if you do hate it and leave, will that put a strain on the relationship that will lead to its demise? Are you ok with that outcome? I think the relationship questions are just as important as the financial ones.

[FIFoFum]

Are the other family members involved in the trust on board with you living there rent free? What happens if your SO becomes ill? Will you be expected to take over his duties as caretaker, or move out?

This. I don't see how you get to live rent-free somewhere that your SO doesn't own 100%. You either would have to pay rent to the trust (and then get some value back from trust/corp), or the rent abatement would be in exchange for specific caretaker job performance.

Even getting permission from the minority in the family is not long-term stable as a solution. What is someone dies and/or gets divorced, transferring their share to an entirely different person?

[Petunia 100]

It's a fair question.  Free rent plus a stipend has been the compensation paid to caretakers for the past several decades. The current caretaker has his girlfriend and her kids living there with him, and they do not have any caretaker duties.  So no, I don't think it would be a problem that I was living there too.  The house will not be rented whether I am there or not.

[Petunia 100]

Are the other family members involved in the trust on board with you living there rent free? What happens if your SO becomes ill? Will you be expected to take over his duties as caretaker, or move out? Have you both drawn up wills and are you provided for in case of his death? I only bring this up because you're not married and families + money have a way of getting messy quick. Does your SO work, or will caretaking be his only job? Will he resent you only paying utilities and food costs for yourself while he handles the property on his own? Do you have an emergency account large enough to allow you to leave without dipping into investments if you hate it? And if you do hate it and leave, will that put a strain on the relationship that will lead to its demise? Are you ok with that outcome? I think the relationship questions are just as important as the financial ones.

The property has been in his family since the 1940s.  If SO were to die, I would not expect any part of the property or income to come to me.  SO has a daughter, so it should go to her.  I am fine with that.   If he became ill, I don't know what would happen exactly. 

He does work now, but it is not commutable to this property.  If he moves to the property, he will have to give up his current job.  This is true regardless of what I do.

I will keep some of the proceeds from my house sale in cash, so that cash is available in the event I need some for moving expenses.  Depending on how much there is, I will probably tuck some into my Roth IRA, as the annual limit allows.

[FINate]

I have 210k in tax deferred accounts, another 30k in my Roth, no taxable investment account.  So I don't have enough to FIRE, but I think if I just leave this alone and let it keep growing, by the time I hit SS age, it will be adequate.

Yes, you're crazy ;) IMO, the above makes the plan a bad idea for you. You're 49 and don't have even a third of what you need to FIRE. If you break up or something happens to your SO then you're SOL because your quasi-retirement depends on something to which you have no legal rights. To make matters worse, you wouldn't have a lot of time to recover. The next 5-10 years or so are critically important to your long term retirement - right now you need to save as much as possible. Leaving a 55k + benefits job with little to no commute for a 30-40 minute commute that likely pays minimum wage is not a good plan.

If you were ready to FIRE on your own, or you could find comparable employment near the new location then I would say go for it. But neither sounds sounds possible as you've described it.

There are other ways to deal with a problem caretaker other than your SO moving onto the property. If the current caretaker is selling equipment and timber they don't have rights/permission to that is theft and a report should be filed. Evict them and get a new caretaker. Establish regular check-ins and visits with the new caretaker to ensure they are holding up their end of the deal. There should be no need to turn your life upside down and put yourself in a financially precarious position to deal with what is really a relatively minor problem - don't let the tail wag the dog on this.

[mozar]

I agree that its a bad idea, more because it doesn't seem like the SO has really thought this out. But financially you could get to 300k, plan to make at least 12k a year until you hit your number. 15 years and the stache will accumulate to 800k and at 65 you could retire.

[FINate]

I agree that its a bad idea, more because it doesn't seem like the SO has really thought this out. But financially you could get to 300k, plan to make at least 12k a year until you hit your number. 15 years and the stache will accumulate to 800k and at 65 you could retire.

If everything works out exactly as planned for the next 15 years this may work, though it will be very close. If, on the other hand, something happens to the living arrangement (break up, family wants to sell the property, etc.) then OP is in an extremely difficult position. 12k/year is very little to live on if one does not own their home outright.

OP, you are much better off keeping the 55k + benefits job and saving aggressively to hit FIRE as quickly as possible. You are considering taking a big personal risk by making this move so I think it's worth inverting the situation and exploring it from the other side. If you do decide to make the move what is your SO willing to offer to protect you? Can/will he put you on the deed or provide a written contract that guarantees your right to live on the property regardless of what happens? In other words, you're being asked to sacrifice a lot, what is he going to sacrifice in return?

[BAMxi]

I would do this in a heartbeat, but I'm also 30 years old and quite comfortable with risk in general (though somewhat less so in the past 9 months, as we now have a baby). I have left a job and moved to a location with nothing lined up but free housing before, and everything worked out for my wife and I. We ultimately found jobs again (my wife very part time, working when she chooses to work, me full time). I would still seek out some kind of work, either remotely or in the nearby town you mentioned. It might take some work to get your internet to be reliable, but there is hardly a place on earth that just can't get internet these days, if you're so inclined/willing to pay for it. My friend's parents lived deep in the mountains of CO and had satellite internet. It was slower than DSL or cable, but worked for his mom to work from home emailing and general internet browsing.

Either way, I'd recommend at least coming up with a base income so you're not tapping your savings, as it seems like you have already thought about. It has been my experience that just having something to do, even if it is a part time job in a coffee shop or local business a couple days per week, it's good to be able to get out and talk to other people. We lived very isolated lives for nearly two years and it did start to get to us eventually.

I think it comes down to what your ideal life looks like to you. To me, living on a pond in the mountains would be a dream come true and I could probably live the rest of my life hiking and enjoying nature within minimal income and feel completely fulfilled. I know others enjoy being in a city and surrounded by people and culture, and growing their careers.

[undercover]

Quit your comfortable gig (not saying your job is easy) with $40k to move to a much smaller place with no job prospects other than Walmart while increasing commute and having no equity in the house you're moving to at age 49? Nah. I wouldn't do it. But I'm not you either.

[Smokystache]

Couple of random thoughts:

a) In my experience, towns of 10-14k have more opportunities than most people assume. If it was a town of 1-2,000 - then I'd be more concerned. If you have general business, computing, and/or accounting skills - those are very transferrable to a wide variety of businesses. But a job in the towns  sounds like a backup. As others have mentioned, your best prospect may be remote work related to your current skill set.

b) Only you can determine if your relationship with your SO is stable and healthy enough to deal with change. It can be helpful to think back to any major changes that have had an impact on one or both of you in the past. How did each of you respond? Was it with "I'll support you even if it inconveniences me" or "You're on your own". Past doesn't predict the future, but that's the best test you've got. This could be a nightmare or could be your "forever bliss."

c) How often have you visited the area? Even if you've been there many times, I think it would be well worth the time/cost to visit the house, property and surrounding towns. Buy a local newspaper, get something to eat at a local restaurant, and look at the region through the eyes of someone who may be there for a while. It is one thing to visit a town; it is quite another to visit and see it with the eyes of "I may be living around here."

Best of luck!

[Patches]

Maybe I missed it but I don't see mention of property taxes.  How does the corp cover these now?  Or are they deferred using a timber-harvest schedule?

Also, how do the numbers look you sold the timber land instead?  Might be a quicker path to FI if your majority-owner SO forces a sale, or ask for a buy-out from the other owners/trust.

There are plenty of 2/1 900sqft rustic cabins for cheap rent in most rural environs like you describe.

Food for thought.

[Goldielocks]

This is an exciting decision for you!

Here are a couple of points that have not yet been addressed:

Utilities -- how much, how, etc. ?  I am guessing wood fired furnace, which is great, but does the power go down a lot?
    Cell phone coverage?
    Internet -- I have relatives that are 45 minutes outside of a town of 30k, and they do not get cellphone coverage nor internet other than a very slow dial up.  Mountains can do that.  You need internet for most remote work!!
------------

Another option is for you and SO to move to a rented apartment in the closest town, work part time and take care of the property part time.

-----------

If I were to do this, I would want a plan where I had enough money for my own small condo within 5 -10 years, paid off.
I am thinking once your son buys a place and has kids, you may want a part time condo near them, or your daughter, in future, at the least.      With your finances / plans - is that an option?

Failing that, what would your SO provide to you should you break up in 3-4 years?  Or he dies in 3-4 years by a falling tree / firewood collecting accident / gored by a boar? I think that if you are going to follow someone, and drop your own financial security / potential, you need to have an agreement about what to do in the worst case.

Good luck!

[Shiernian]

I think you should spend two weeks there and try-out the potential new commute before you move.
Also you should have the new job secured before you move.

[Petunia 100]

I appreciate everyone who took the time to read and have an opinion.  Thank you. :)

I'm still undecided, but have a good year to continue mulling it over.

[Petunia 100]

Update:  We're doing it.  Plan to have my house on the market by summer.

I have been reading job boards and have seen a dozen or so jobs in the nearby 10k and 14k towns which would really suit, and pay 25k per year or so. 

I will update as we go along, if anyone is interested.

[Metric Mouse]

We are definitely still interested! A huge change, and so exciting!

[Fire2025]

Congratulations.  This sounds really exciting.  I would love updates as things move forward. 

Glad to hear the job opportunities are better than expected.

[Smokystache]

Best of luck! Thanks for the update.

[Erica]

That's exciting! I think you will really like the smaller town feel. I am looking forward to more updates

[paddedhat]

My accountant was in her late thirties when she packed up and moved to a very rural area with no job. She committed to starting a very laid back practice that served local families and small businesses. A dozen years later, she is doing quite well, working the business part time, except for those few crazy weeks in tax season. One of the keys to he personal happiness is that the has "trained" her year round clients to deal with her remotely. She even weaned a few old codgers who were operating businesses out of a shoebox full of paper, and just couldn't conceptualize her not being down the street to hold their hand, to now emailing her with anything they need, as she processes their payroll and quarterlies remotely. The upside? Not only does she have a thriving business that needs far less than 40 hrs/wk in effort, but she is often gone for months at a time, travelling and enjoying herself. She occasionally deals with clients who are blown away to learn that she is woking for them from Yellowstone, or Florida, and not down the street.

[purple monkey]

Good luck!

[CloserToFree]

Just read this thread and wanted to say good luck!! I was of the camp that felt the move would be an iffy financial decision.  But as someone who would adore living in the mountain setting you describe (at least for a period of time), I understand why you're taking the plunge.  Hopefully you'll work out a great job arrangement somewhere and will be able to earn something that'll make you comfortable with the various future uncertainties (relationship, family, ownership etc).  Would love to follow future updates either here or if you start a journal!  Life is short.  Rooting for you :)

[Petunia 100]

Planning to tell them at work tomorrow about my impending departure.  I'm not setting a specific date; I really want them to have all the time they need to replace me.  I will also train the new person, if they want. UNLESS I get a job offer in the meantime.   This decision, while a bit risky, just feels right to me.  It is a small office, vacations are coming up, and I do not want to give a 2 week notice in the middle of someone's vacation and create a labor shortage problem.  They have been good to me and they deserve better than that.

Two months ago, the county in which I will soon be living posted a job opening for a "fiscal assistant" which is an entry level accounting-ish job.  I applied and have since taken a written test and been interviewed via telephone for one department and had an in-person interview for another department.   The telephone interview was mediocre; the in-person interview went unbelievably well.   I was in there for 90 minutes.   During the interview, I was asked if I would be willing to accept part-time work or temporary full-time and the county's "extra help" progam was described to me.  It was stressed that most employees actually start this way and later move into a full-time position.  Reading between the lines, I think they already know who is being offered the full-time (with medical benefits and a pension) position and that they are merely going through the motions of "searching" for their new full-time employee.

Now, I'm not going to lie, I would love to have even a small pension.  But part-time work would be just fine too.

A few days ago, the assistant of the person who interviewed me called to say a position was open in yet a third department and that I should apply.  The classification for this third opening is "fiscal technician" so it requires a separate application and test.  She went on to say that it is very important I am on as many hiring lists as possible and that I can call her anytime if I have any questions about the hiring process.   So I am left feeling very optimistic that a position of some sort as a county employee may be in my future.

I am not going to actively pursue employment other than with the county at this time.  Once I am closer to actually moving, if nothing has come to fruition with the county, I will broaden my efforts.

My SO is currently working on getting the caretaker legally evicted from just a shop building on the property (as opposed to the house and the premises).   We are thinking once that is secure, we can park a travel trailer inside and use that as our temporary home until the caretaker is completely evicted and we can move into that house.   We don't already have a travel trailer.  But there are always used ones for sale so finding one shouldn't be too much of a problem.   In the event we are living in a travel trailer in the winter, we would prefer it to be parked inside the shop rather than outside exposed to the elements.

I have decided to begin hoarding cash as I may be without income for a period of time before my house is sold (after will be less of a problem).   I have a new American Express card which I opened for the sign-up bonus.  It is 0% for the first 12 months.  I will be using it to pay utilities, buy gasoline, etc. and then making a minimum payment and hanging on to my cash.    I have 11k of cash right now.  If it becomes necessary, I can also take a Heloc draw.  (I have lots of other available credit too, but I'm not willing to pay normal credit card interest rates). 

I have a lot of stuff to get rid of.  A. Lot. Of. Stuff.  I've started working on that but have a long way to go.

So that's where we are. :)